And the rough draft for Academy of Outcasts 2 is done. It’s really fun.
I started on April 26th. So that’s basically two months. 104k. I’ve got a bunch of notes for things I need to go back and add during the editing process, so the final should be around 110k-120k, so really close to the first one (117k). I’ll start the first editing pass on Monday.
This is my second discovery written novel. I’m normally an outliner.
I’ll have to do a WriterDojo episode (yes, we’re coming back soon) about what I’ve learned about the differences in those methods, but one thing I’ll say is that discovery writing feels faster for me. Though that might even out with increased editing time.
With twenty something outlined novels, I consider 40k a month really good productivity. With two discovery written, I’ve been closer to 50-60k. AOO1 would’ve been entirely done and edited in 3 months, but I got really sick during that one and lost basically the entire month of December so it took four.
Normally when I’m outlining I’ll have a week of just thinking and noting plot points and scenes, then putting them all in order, and filling in the blanks. My outlines are actually pretty loose, open to change as I think of things that are cooler, and written in a kind of bullet point short hand that wouldn’t make much sense to anyone other than me.
This I just go, sit down, and start writing. As I think of things I could have made better/cooler in the earlier bits, I just go back and change them, or I make notes for stuff to go back and add later. At some point a coherent overall story forms, so then there’s a sort of mental outline anyway, but each new scene I just run with whatever I’m feeling right then.
I don’t know if I could discovery write successfully if I didn’t already have a lot of practice with story telling. At this point hitting all the beats and character arcs is just kinda instinct. When something’s missing, I feel it, rather than recognizing it specifically like some kind of checklist.
Mentally there’s not a huge lot of difference between these two methods, as I’m not one of those hyper religious outliners where everything must fit and I must stick to the outline or die. Oh hell no. If I think of something that sounds funner as I go, I change the outline.
One thing I’ll say for outlining is that it works better for intricate, intertwined, plots. I could not have discovery wrote Saga of the Forgotten Warrior. Academy of Outcasts is progression fantasy, and that genre is all about fast, fun, action and adventure. However, I say that, but I’ve also got 10 full pages of world guide for it too. Main difference between this and my other stuff is that world guide would have existed first, and this one I built as I go.
And by world guide I mean a sort of master document where I put down all the little details I’ve put in print establishing how that world works, that way I don’t contradict myself. Once a book in a series is done I go back and update it, adding all the new characters, places, spells, items, history, culture, creatures, etc.
(this one ended up with a weird cultural aspect is the days of the week correspond to seven elemental realms, and 28 different locations-there’s 13 months, 28 days per month, 7 different realms- which means that I had to make a calendar for when the adventure takes place, so I know where the gate is pointed at that day… Man, I make this stuff way too complicated for myself) 😀
So do I like discovery more than outlining? Eh. I think it really depends on the genre and what I’m going for more than anything. All I know for sure is that I don’t want to be one of those writers who gets lazy and stagnant in my old age. I’m going to keep trying different things and experimenting, because that’s part of the fun of being a professional creative.
“this one ended up with a weird cultural aspect is the days of the week correspond to seven elemental realms”
Japanese media actually does that one relatively often due to how their words for days of the week are written (Mo=Moon day, Tu=fire, W=Water, Th=Wood, F=Metal/gold, Sa=Earth, Su=Sun). Outside of various games released when having access to a real clock/calendar was a gimmick or having an emphasis on following a calendar based schedule, the Mana series (Sword of Mana, Secret of Mana, Trials of Mana etc.) is the one that comes to mind as using the idea heavily (though the days of the week aren’t the “real” ones there as there’s eight).
Ah, the old plotting versus pantsing writing. JK Rowling is an example of a writer doing it by the seat of their pants. Build a world, create the characters, then write down what happens. It’s fast and fun, but as a series gets longer, the pantser runs into trouble as each minor character cries for on stage time. Foreshadowing is harder as well.
An example of the plotting author would be David Drake, who built outlines and fleshed them out to as much as half the total word count. Slow and steady, plotting becomes important when writing a series in order to avoid continuity issues, plot holes and tangents. Most writers run somewhere on the spectrum between the two extremes. Deliberately changing the mode is impressive, not many writers do that from what I have seen.
Rowling knew how it would end, though. The HP series may have been mostly discovery written, but the ending was set before the first book was ever published.
I do remember finishing Book 4, when You-Know-Who came back with a physical body, and thinking, she had written herself into a hole; we’ve got three more books in the series but the Big Bad is back and badder than ever. But it turned out okay, the subsequent events fit the personalities of everyone involved and still make for a (mostly) cohesive story, and there’s a lesson in government censorship in there, too.
But perhaps that’s why, out of the whole series, Book 7 is probably my least favorite: What was a discovery-written story up until then, had to be pigeon-holed into the set ending.
You see the same sort of experimentation in professional musicians, too.
A band’s first album is often made on a strict budget and limited studio time; such resources are expensive so there’s very little room for trying new things or deviation from the plan.
If the first album is even moderately successful, the group will likely have some extra budget and room to experiment, sample new sounds, and play around in the studio a bit to really refine the second album.
Ever thought of writing on RoyalRoad, Larry?
Most “progression fantasy” I know, tend to start off as webnovels before being edited and published
Would love to see something like a “system apocalypse” done by you, it’d definitely involve a LOT of guns and people using said guns to shoot at the monsters from the portals, Karens complaining about guns, only to be saved by randos with guns and governments reluctantly letting guys with guns shoot
Welcome to the know-as-you-go crowd, Larry! I’m glad both styles work for you.
I tried outlining twice. Once it worked, once it didn’t. (I had finished a non-fiction monograph recently, and in my mind, outline = footnotes and nonfiction).
Having seen discovery writing go off the rails when the characters kick the author to the curb and take over the story, this was interesting to read. Somehow I doubt Larry will allow any characters to get away with this, as he can always bring in the heavy artillery to bring them back in line 🙂
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Question, I want to ask, what are your opinions on AI? Lots of people are panicking about it replacing jobs, many likely will and AI-Assisted workflow is something people fear will be replaced with AI entirely
You’re a writer, are you and other writers you know, afraid of being replaced by AI or not?
I mean AI helps produce stuff way faster and quality is getting better or at least it’s getting closer to how the original works it was based of, look like
Deepfakes are especially more easy to do now and will definitely get even better
Academy of Outcasts is progression fantasy, the guys on RoyalRoad who publish on Aethon Books, the publisher you’re using for Academy of Outcasts, reproduce chapters very fast
I think a number are going from AI covers to AI being used with their texts
So what are your general thoughts? Really that much of a hit towards the world economy and creatives especially? Or will it turn out to just be a tool?
I mean, Digital Artists learn a lot of traditional art skills to get better and there are the latter who dislike the first before AI popped up as a factor
Sit down and write the story is how I do it. I never know who is going to be in it, what they’re going to do, or even what the problem of the book is going to be. Start off with an opening scene and let the characters get on with it.
I basically run along behind them recording the action.
sometimes it does take a minute to figure out the solution to whatever is coming after them, but eventually the answer comes.