Monster Hunter Nation

My Thoughts on the 2016 Hugos

See? I told you so.

I didn’t watch any of it. I painted minis instead. I’m going off of the discussions I saw on Facebook this morning.

I hung it up after 2015’s Celebration of Wooden Assholes and didn’t participate in 2016. I figured it would shake out like this, the elitist cliques would circle the wagons, send a message that outsiders can fuck off, and declare whatever happened a victory for “diversity”.

Funny. When I started Sad Puppies four years ago, the narrative was all about how the Hugos were a celebration of what was great, representing the best of all of fandom. I said nope, it is decided by cliques, ass kissing, and politics. They called me a liar. Fast forward to now, and at least they are open it is all politics. Hell, they’re celebrating it.

Just ask yourself this, what kind of scumbags would give No Award to Larry Elmore? This is a man who is one of the most prolific and popular fantasy artists of all time. His covers dominated the better part of a decade, a whole generation of writers grew up with his posters on their wall, yet, he never got nominated for a Hugo that entire time.

Larry Elmore wasn’t involved in any campaigns. When he found out that fans finally recognized him for a Hugo nomination he was surprised, honored, and humbled.

No Award.

Moira Greyland exposed to the culture of rape and pedophilia in old fandom, and not the made up “rape culture” the modern feminists accuse anybody who disagrees with them of. It was a gut wrenching expose in a category normally won by fluff. But they wanted that swept under the rug.

No Award.

Toni Weisskopf? No Award. But we already knew that was coming. Sure, she’s one of the most successful editors and publishers in the business, exactly the sort of “empowered woman” these liars claim we want to keep out.

And Jerry Pournelle… Living legend. You pieces of shit are honestly going to tell us that Jerry Pournelle is not award worthy?

Sure. Why not?

And to Neil Gaiman, boldly standing up to those pesky Puppies during his speech…

When you got your buddy Jonathan Ross to volunteer to MC the awards, it wasn’t those jerky Sad Puppies that formed an angry twitter mob because he *might* tell a fat joke. He got sacrificed on the altar of PC.

When you were getting yelled at for making light of Trigger Warnings, it wasn’t the Sad Puppies who were triggered.

And when some dilettante couch surfer was demanding that readers judge authors by the color of their skin rather than the content of their books, and holding up your book as the example for her finger shaking scolding, it was the Sad Puppies who said that was nonsense.

Now, I know you’re a multi-millionaire A-lister and your career is so awesome you can safely pat those yapping jackals on their tender heads and not lose a hand, but most authors aren’t in your lofty tower. When the angry mobs come for them, they’re fucked. Names get ruined, contracts get cancelled, and careers are derailed.

But instead of standing up to the Outrage of the Week crowd, you stood up against those jerky puppies. (by the way, Neil, there were two separate groups of Puppies with entirely different goals and methods, but I’m sure you knew that before you told them all to sod off). So way to go.  You showed them.

So all this latest nonsense sure makes me glad I didn’t waste any time on the Hugos this year. What a joke.

Aw, The Guardian's Village Idiot Remembered My Birthday!
The American News Media Sucks
Keith Glass
Guest

Let’s face it: The Hugos, and the Worldcon. . . are the Walking Dead. Or at least the Scootered Dead.

We simply need to ignore them, and let their Death Spiral take it’s course. . .

Donald Wheeler
Guest

Based in the pictures I’ve seen, it’s closer to the Waddling Dead.

Achillea
Guest

“Waddling Dead”

Bwahahahahaha. Yep, definitely stealing that.

Shadowdancer
Guest

*sigh* *puts coffee down* *lets the giggles out*

AlienOne
Guest

Hey, I can’t say I’m too much into any of this stuff, but I’ve been a big supporter of yours ever since I read about all of this Hugo scandal AND because I knew your stance on guns. Keep up the good fight, man. We’re on your side.

Patrick Chester
Guest

As usual, people like Gaiman pick the safer option and pretend it’s striking a brave stance against “bad” people.

I’m guessing they tried to be less blatant with the No Awards this year, but it still is obviously being used to punish any nominated by either group of Puppies.

Matthew
Guest

Speaking power to truth?

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Speaking truthiness to the powerless.

Brian Niemeier
Guest

Bravely facing the applause of his peers.

Lawson
Guest

Wonder if Gaiman would say it at Dragoncon.

palaeomerus
Member
It’s the old classic loony downhill sleigh ride from an almost reasonable preference or goal to total paranoid self righteous insanity enabled by liberal application of false or even absurd dichotomies between A and ANTI-A ,or inverted to Anti-A vs. Pro-A where A is often a position NO ONE HAS EVER TAKEN because it is nuts yet SOMEONE must be blamed for it. [Kind of sane] Cancer sucks! ->” we claim the anti-cancer position” -> we fight cancer-> anyone we bitch at or who gets in our way or disagrees with us is inhibiting our fight against cancer-> They must… Read more »
Jared A
Guest

The Hugos are dead. Long live the Dragons.

masgramondou
Member
The difference between the Hugos and the Dragons was that I was able to nominate works for all the categories of the latter without much difficulty (checking date of publication was the trickiest bit) whereas I had a horrible time finding anything I wanted to nominate in the shorter fiction categories of Hugo. Unsurprisingly when it came to voting the same applied. I had in fact read more than one entry in every book category (and in the Alt-Hist category I think I’d read all of them). The Hugos OTOH were a struggle if one was to vote intelligently and… Read more »
Doug Loss
Guest

The Hugos? What are those? Didn’t there used to be an award for SF works by that name?

Brian Niemeier
Guest

Remember, folks, you’ve got till Sunday to register.

Want to show the Waddling Dead how irrelevant their pet award is? Lots of authors who’ve been snubbed by CHORFs on the ballot. Get voting!

http://bit.ly/2b43wH0

Book
Guest

If you’re willing to No-Award GOOD books, authors, editors, and artists in the name of your agenda/ politics- then obviously you’re also willing to vote for crappy books for the same reason.

Correia was right.

Shadowdancer
Guest

Yep. Every single one of the Sad Puppy campaigns showed he was right.

Linoge
Guest

Glad I’m not the only one flat-out astonished by no-award-ing Jerry Pournelle.

It’s almost like they want to prove just how fucked the Hugos are.

Brad R. Torgersen
Guest

Jerry Pournelle (along with Larry Niven) is a pillar of the field. NO AWARDing Jerry is like when SFWA shit all over Mike Resnick. This field no longer gives a damn about the men who actually helped make it great. This field is obsessed with virtue-signaling and identity politics.

60guilders
Guest

Nonononono, you don’t understand. Jerry Pournelle’s evilbadthinkicky books have been part of what has been holding SF back from being accepted by all right-thinking people.
No-Awarding such counter-revolutionary thinking is precisely the right thing to do.

Linoge
Guest

I have a sad that I can only like this comment once.

Patrick
Guest

No Awarding Jerry Pournelle is a fucking crime. Also, what happened with Mike Resnick? I’ve never heard about that.

Leigh Kimmel
Guest
Mike Resnick used to have a regular column in the SFWA Bulletin, IRRC with Barry Malzberg. They’d discuss the state of science fiction publishing or talk about its history. They did one on several prominent women editors of the 1950’s and 1960’s, how the fanboys were in awe of them, how these fine women were able to be both feminine and skilled editors. The Social Justice Whineybutts blew a gasket because *gasp* Resnick used the term “ladies.” Because he mentioned how good one of these women editors looked in a swimsuit, how another cooked awesome chili that really made the… Read more »
Peter O\'Meara
Guest

Note that the fired bulletin editor was a women. Because of course if she hadn’t seen an issue, she was part of the problem.

Patrick
Guest

So I looked and found scans of that article. It didn’t seem objectionable to me. And then I saw the responses to it. Holy shit!

Why does it always seem that when SJWs get angry, their response is orders of magnitude worse than what made them angry? You say something that someone could perceive as homophobic? They want you fired from your job, tarred and feathered, and they will likely send you death threats. They seem to have all lost their minds.

Brad R. Torgersen
Guest

The straw that broke the gerbils’ backs was when Malzberg accurately called them liberal fascists. Once Malzberg did that, it was all over. The liberal fascists proved they weren’t liberal fascists by being (ding, ding) liberal goddamned fascists: driving Mike, Barry, and Jean out of the Bulletin. I hear Neil Clarke is now in charge of that august publication. (head in hands) I am pretty sure the magazine devotes itself in large part to earnest, heart-felt discussions about how SF/F is hopelessly racist, misogynist, and heteronormative — and what to do about it.

Jamie Bergman
Guest

I hadn’t noticed until the Sad Puppies that I had not gone out of my way to look for Hugo Award winning book for years. I am pretty sure that it was because they had given up the pretense about being entertaining writers and were pointed at whatever the Social Injustice of the year was.

Book
Guest

Oh yea, also- Way to punch down, Gaiman.

Hugo
Guest

To be fair it Gaiman. Any punch he ever throws will be down. He could punch the queen and it would be punching down.

Kate_Julicher
Member

I really wanted the tent to be big enough for Puppies and the old guard, but it’s not. Message received. At least I don’t need to waste time submitting to those markets any more. Time to get off my rear and get my novel polished and sent to Baen…

gbm
Guest

Yes please do, if it is as good as The Golden Knight “I” will buy it, if it is only half as good it will be better than some of the Hugo works.

John T. Block
Guest

I agree with you, Larry, but I find it sad that a once prestigious award, won by the likes of Heinlein and other greats, is lowered to the importance-level of used toilet paper. All for politics. (sigh) Screw it, I need some range-time…. My son got me one of those cheap side-by-side hammer coach guns, it’s a hoot.

Brad R. Torgersen
Guest

I have to think Gaiman thinks everything in Puppydom is merely Vox Day. I suspect Gaiman spent zero time talking to anyone on the Puppy side, doesn’t understand the actual diversity of the Puppy fans or participants, and that Gaiman merely wanted a cheap, quick way to virtue-signal — to the establishment — that he is still their darling.

Yeah, way to punch down, Mr. Gaiman. So bold and heroic of you. 🙁

Saber Alter
Guest

I think your right, but Gaiman has always been a wussy beta-male. I like his work, but courage is simply not part of his character. He is far too obsessed with sucking up to his tribe.

He needs to borrow Larry’s balls sometime. It would do him magical *wonders*.

Saber Alter
Guest

*you’re, not your.

Elkad Eby
Guest

How in the hell can you skip Pournelle? Again.
color me outraged

Celia Hayes
Guest

So, on to the Dragons, I guess?

gbm
Guest

Voted my Dragon ballot last week.

GK Chesterton
Guest

There is only one group of puppies. One is just madder than the other.

Doug Loss
Guest

This is, of course, a knowing lie on your part.

gmmay
Guest

“GK Chesterton”? If only your self-awareness were half as developed as your self-regard.

Matthew
Guest

So, no more of my money to Gaiman.

Not that that’s really a loss – the only thing of his I’ve ever enjoyed was Good Omens, and the style there was mostly Sir Pterry.

Bugmaster
Guest

I can see where you’re coming from, but personally I’d rather not judge a person’s work by his politics. For example, I completely disagree with the politics of both Orson Scott Card and our very own Larry Correira, but that doesn’t stop me from enjoying their books.

As for Gaiman, Neverwhere and The Dream Hunters are among my favorite books of all time, FWIW. Along with Sandman, of course.

AlienOne
Guest
I actually believe in supporting the people in whom your politics align–especially if it’s someone as vocal as Larry Correira–and even MORE especially since people with that particular brand of politics are actively shunned by the awards system. I’m all for supporting proper representation, and there is no proper representation at the moment. Therefore, even though I’m not an avid reader, I go out and buy Larry’s books simply because I know it’s supporting what he does. To me, it’s just as important to support the real-life work of the person as it is to support the fictional work of… Read more »
Bugmaster
Guest

Isn’t “supporting the people in whom your politics align” — regardless of the quality of their work — exactly how we got into this mess ?

Aimee
Guest

No.

I have a friend who writes romances. They are not my style at all. When she is published (any day now) I will purchase the book and support her. What I will not do is nominate or vote for her work in an award category just because she is my friend. THAT is what got us (actually, the Hugos) into this mess – being unable to separate, not just author from works, but politics from quality.

AlienOne
Guest
You missed my point. My point was that I am for proper representation and diversity–mainly because that ensures a wider variety of work without a narrow agenda or narrative…which in turn waters down the quality of the work. I am for that, and because of that, I support the under-represented “sides” of a discussion. When more opinions and sides are represented, history shows that civilization prospers and advances. When opinions are suppressed and silenced, history shows that civilization stagnates and withers. I will continue to support further opinions that are under-represented, because I feel a broader world view and understanding… Read more »
AlienOne
Guest

*support and further (missed the “and” there)

Bugmaster
Guest

I am not going to buy a badly written book just because its author holds a political view that I agree with. If everyone did that, there’s be no good books left. I want to promote good writing, not the “correct” opinions.

I agree that silencing one’s opposition is among the worst things one can do; SJWs have called me a “free speech extremist” in the past. But choosing to judge fiction based on its own merits, rather than on the politics of the author, is not the same as silencing anyone. Quite the opposite, really.

AlienOne
Guest
Ah, but “good writing,” “good art,” and “good work” is subjective–as is any one person’s opinion. The only objective thing to do is encourage proper representation of ALL opinions and works, whether you think they are good or not. Heck, take the movie industry as another example: is what everyone buys what is “generally good?” Not necessarily. Is pushing one ideology and shaping the culture and the way people think based on that one ideology the correct thing to do? I would wager not. In fact, I would say that whether or not you think so, the books you like… Read more »
Jonathan G
Guest
The essence of trade is mutual benefit. Therefore, when I pay for something, I expect to get good value for it. If I’m paying for entertainment, I expect to be entertained. I don’t care so much about the beliefs of the creator(s), but I am unlikely to buy something else from someone whose work I didn’t enjoy. Of course, that’s a very subjective opinion of the quality of the work, but it’s my beer money the writer or moviemaker or whatever is trying to get me to part with, so I have absolutely no qualms about not supporting stuff I… Read more »
The Deuce
Guest

I don’t agree with judging a person’s work by their politics, UNLESS that person is themselves a proponent of judging work by politics, or covers for and supports those who do. In that case, I believe in ruthlessly holding them to their own rules. Experiencing the consequences of it personally is the only way they’ll learn.

John Van Stry
Guest

I don’t judge a person’s work by their politics either. But if they insult me, well then I don’t care if how good they are, they’re not getting my money anymore.

Synova
Guest
Yeah… there’s doing an ideology check and then there’s trying to ignore direct insults. The two are not the same. Most of the time I don’t have to *decide* not to read someone anymore. No boycotts. What happens is that I *can’t* read someone anymore because they’ve made themselves personal to me. Not reading blogs or following social media can help and that’s the first step but darned if sometimes an author will make him or herself impossible to ignore. Not going to conventions and making a point never to meet your hero can also help a great deal. It’s… Read more »
Shadowdancer
Guest
I love Gaiman’s work; and I KNOW he’s not in the same political POV as mine. But the way he said it, no qualifications, clearly not caring about the difference between Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies, and calling us all names – well, it’s clear he doesn’t want a certain type of people to be his fans or buy his work any more. So why would I spend money on the works of an author who calls me a loser? It’s the same reason why I won’t buy Tor published books, even IF there are books of theirs I might… Read more »
Dex
Guest

Exactly.
Sitting in the auditorium, listening to the accepter read Gaiman’s diatribe, I heard this message: “F@#$ you, Dexter. I don’t need your money, and don’t want you to buy my books.”

palaeomerus
Member
I don’t love Gaiman’s work. I thought Sandman was cool in the 90’s certainly better than most of the highly Anne Rice or Clive Barker influenced Vertigo experimental “grown up but not really” comics wave. Looking back it’s not so hot. Not terrible but he’s really not someone who’s work I cherish. His prose I find quite dull, sort of like my least favorite Ray Bradbury stuff with less crusty emotion and more crowd pandering, often with shallow nostalgia or pop-psych bluster, at play. So I can happily take or leave Gaiman and will never count him as among the… Read more »
palaeomerus
Member

Well when I say never, that’s assuming he doesn’t radically change his writing style and general interests towards something I do find really compelling.

Dan Kauffman
Guest

OK I am not giving up my fix of Safehold or something else David Weber might write. But to balance my being tempted to buy Tor books I may have been the only person to walk into the Hugo Awards wearing a Sad Puppies t shirt 😉

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Since last year’s debacle, the only Tor I’ve bought is a Sanderson novel and two Repairman Jack books by F. Paul Wilson, who is an awesome writer and a libertarian.

deadcenter
Guest

I will continue to buy Steven Brust’s books regardless of who he is published by and despite his self identification as a Trotskyite. Vlad Taltos is too good a character to miss. YMMV.

Scholar-at-Arms
Guest

“I can see where you’re coming from, but personally I’d rather not judge a person’s work by his politics.”

I see where you’re coming from, but objecting to Gaiman seems to have less to do with politics than with being rude to fans in public. It’s about cliqueishness, albeit politics-inspired cliqueishness. Gaiman’s remarks offended me in a way that his politics do not.

GK Chesterton
Guest
“I have to think Gaiman thinks everything in Puppydom is merely Vox Day. I suspect Gaiman spent zero time talking to anyone on the Puppy side, doesn’t understand the actual diversity of the Puppy fans or participants, and that Gaiman merely wanted a cheap, quick way to virtue-signal — to the establishment — that he is still their darling.” Brad I read you because of Vox. I enjoyed it. I get tired of trying to split people in half who are broadly working for the same goals. It isn’t healthy. I again remind you that people did that to you… Read more »
Rob H
Guest

“who are broadly working for the same goals”
Except that Theodore Beale is not “broadly working for the same goals.” Politically, he’s an Alt-Right racialist crank, and thus not someone with whom any conservative or libertarian wants to be associated. And with specific reference to the Hugos, again he is not working for the same goal, since the Sad Puppies wanted to reform the Hugos whereas Beale, from the beginning, wanted to destroy them.

Brad R. Torgersen
Guest
The problem is that Vox Day — the persona — has become the avatar of all that is heinous and evil, in the eyes of the Eloi. My sense is that Gaiman has not devoted any serious time to examining the issues, but because he knows Vox Day is supposed to be the end-all be-all of pure horribleness in he genre, Gaiman felt no need to make his argument any more nuanced than it was. Beale knows this, and he actively feeds the flames. Thus it’s easy for Gaiman to conclude that all of Puppydom is just Vox Day with… Read more »
Nicki
Guest

My husband was appalled by the snubbing of Jerry Pournelle. Absolutely stunned. I don’t know why. This is par for the course for these disgusting bags of rancid effluvia.

Bugmaster
Guest

I am ashamed to say that I have never heard of him. If I wanted to get into his fiction, which book would I start with ?

Brad R. Torgersen
Guest

I would highly recommend Pournelle and Niven together: Lucifer’s Hammer or Footfall if you like near-term apocalyptic or alien invasion stories, and The Mote in God’s Eye if you want a very classic military space opera type of story, mixed with alien first contact.

Rob H
Guest

All three of those are brilliant. They are part of what made me a hard-core SF fan when I discovered them in college.

Fossegrimen
Guest

The mote in God’s eye

Also, something is up with wordpress security. I got here from the mailing list and was logged on as Kate Julicher

nick flandrey
Guest

Anything with Larry Niven, in no particular order.

The Mote in God’s Eye (1975) (with Larry Niven)
Lucifer’s Hammer (1977) (with Larry Niven)
Footfall (1985) (with Larry Niven)
Oath of Fealty (1981) (with Larry Niven)

The original Janissaries (1979) (and follow-ons if you like it.)

All of the Falkenberg’s Legion stories….

He is one of the “Grand Old Men” of the genre.

n

Jakub Narębski
Guest

The Burning City (2000) – though it is fantasy, not SF

gbm
Guest

The Mote In God’s Eye is their acknowledged masterpiece, an epic novel of mankind’s first encounter with alien life that transcends the genre. No lesser an authority than Robert A. Heinlein called it “possibly the finest science fiction novel I have ever read”.

That is one of the best book recommendations you will ever see.

Bugmaster
Guest

Thanks for the recommendations, all — I did not realize that he was Larry Niven’s co-author. I have actually read some of these books, but thanks for the recommendations — I’ll queue up the others.

Doug Northcote
Guest

Bugmaster, you’ve got some great stuff ahead of you! All of the books mentioned are excellent! And not excellent because of the “it was good because of this or that” they’re all really good reads.

Heck I just got the republish of Janissaries because it had 3 of them in one book. Kind of a “oh look! Gimme!” Kind of automatic reaction.

You’re frightening us… next you’ll say you haven’t read anything by Ringo, Bujold or Weber.

We know you’ve read Larry’s stuff, since… well. You’re here.

Bugmaster
Guest

Yes, I’ve read all three (er, four) of those authors, so you can relax 🙂 I’ve got to admit though, Larry Niven is sort of hit or miss for me. YMMV, of course.

Doug Northcote
Guest

Agree, I like Niven but same result here as well.

Shadowdancer
Guest

I’ll cheerfully admit that I haven’t read any Ringo, Bujold or Weber – yet. And no, I didn’t get any Pratchett yet either. It’s not for a lack of wanting – it’s lack of money, and my reading addiction spans to manga and cookbooks.

Also, because science fiction successfully drove me away because of the moralizing lectures. That, or stuff didn’t get interesting for me. So it was hard to get into it outside of Star Trek or Star Wars.

I’ve got maybe another sixty years of life to catch up on reading lots of authors.

The Phantom
Guest

Really? You’ve got some fun ahead of you! Oh yes!

Shadowdancer
Guest

Yeah, I haven’t read ANY Pratchett* yet either. This is gonna be fun!

*Other than… Good Omens? I think.

The Phantom
Guest

Pratchet? Meh. Ringo and Webber? Oh yeah.

palaeomerus
Member
Pratchett has several types of Discworld book. None of them are bad though some are better than others. He wrote tons of the things. They fall into several categories. Cynical zany genre parody (the first two books) to NASTY social commentary (Interesting Times) NASTY Vicious geographical/cultural commentary (Interesting Times, The Last Continent) Pat/neat center left morality plays.social commentary (Sourcerer, Faustus, Mort, Men at Arms, Reaper Man) serious world and character building(Guards, the Witches of Scrote, various “Death’s Buddies Adventures”, various Unseen University Follies) Fascinating pseudo-historical dissections of a whole field or some major change to modern society (the post office,… Read more »
Doug Loss
Guest

Oh Shadow, at least tell us that you’ve read some Cherryh!

Shadowdancer
Guest
;_; ‘Fraid not. My teen years were spent reading what books I COULD get – Eddings’ stuff, Diane Duane, Weiss and Hickman/Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms. The fantasy and fiction lane dwindled from two shelves to one back in the day with ‘National Bookstore’ and it was digging into secondhand bookshops and hoping for the best. I only got the AD&D line of fiction because a cousin gave me the books, and those occasionally popped up in the comic sellers’ stores, and I was essentially competing with the rest of the more affluent members of city to buy them. Had a friend… Read more »
Doug Northcote
Guest
Shadowdancer, now you’ve frightened me. Yell for thoughts on what next to read by any of the authors I mentioned (all are Baen authors). Few recommendations: For the harder science fiction, I’d recommend Weber or Ringo. The series they did together “Empire of Man” with the first book being “March Upcountry” is superb. 4 books but we’re hoping for 5 soonish. Weber’s Honor Harrington (also now down in comic form with about 4 or 5 episodes out) starting with “On Basilisk station” has been almost genre setting. Excellent stuff and you’ll know more about Warp Sails, Grav drives, and naval… Read more »
Shadowdancer
Guest

*Hefts Grunge* First Ringo book of mine, just started it today, and loving it. I got to recommend it, MHI and a whole list of authors to the clinic nurse just this morning as she was giving my daughter some catch up shots; she has five kids, mostly boys, and readers, and wanted recommendations for adventure, sci-fi and fantasy.

Actually, a friend had been recommending “Ghost” to me and it’s on my To Buy List; along with Black Tide Rising. Honor Harrington is on my list as well; a friend gave me a book, and it’s.. somewhere in my shipping boxes.

emdfl
Guest

“Ghost” is Ringo’s book that generated the infamous, “Oh no, John Ringo” screeching from some of the more delicate flowers who picked it up. The whole “Ghost” series was maybe a leeetle bit “coarse”(?) for these delicate flowers. His other stuff is good hard science sci-fi with some being sci-fi-fantasy.

60guilders
Guest

It should be noted that Ringo showed up on the blog that spawned that meme–and agreed with the blogger.

Shadowdancer
Guest
Sugar, I may be small, and I may be cute, but I’m no delicate flower. *grin* the fellow who recommended the Ghost series to me said I’d love it because it’s over the top fun, and the lack of PC-ness ain’t something that bothers me. Though I think Black Tide Rising is more likely to be what I’d grab next from Ringo-sensei. My next month’s (notional) splurge budget though is aimed at putting it aside for a Father’s Day pressie for my hubby. I got him this for his birthday, and while he would likely enjoy a bottle of his… Read more »
Kevin Findley
Guest

So what you’re saying Shadowdancer is that while you may be cute as a button, it’s a stainless steel button with sharp edges that will cut a man just to watch him bleed.

No wonder you fit in so well around here.

vorkosigan
Guest

Strongly recommend CJ Cherryhs Pride of Channur books -very believable alien trading compact into which comes one very frightened human , a species no one has ever heard of or seen. Mcmaster Bujolds Barrayar books are also excellent, with strong and memorable characters you can really care about.

Shadowdancer
Guest

Thanks for the recommends; I’ll hopefully find them in paperback. (yeah, I’m one of those.)

Ursula
Guest

I love the Barrayar series….right up to the most recent one: “Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen”. The writing itself is excellent, as always, but the theme was quite different. I’d be interested to hear if anyone else disliked it as much as I did. Otherwise, the entire series is one I reread just about every year for fun.

BillA
Guest

I think that the warning against Ringo’s Ghost Series is that it is not suitable for younger teenagers. Most of the rest of his stuff is suitable. There’s also a number of books in the Baen free library by Ringo that you can check out, to see what series you like.

Achillea
Guest
Third (or fourth, or tenth, or whatever we’re up to now) on avoiding “Ghost.” It was flat-out awful — at least the two chapters I managed to slog through were, and it was definitely on a downward trajectory at that point. It’s not the pr0n aspect that irked me (though I’d’ve liked to know about it going in — if I want to read a Gor novel, I’ll buy one). It was the main character being a ridiculous Gary Stu and all the political opinions tossed in like anvils. Ringo was irritating enough with constantly jamming his fanwanking over that… Read more »
Doug Northcote
Guest
If you don’t like a series, by all means avoid it. I would recommend that sometime you check out Johns other stuff. You mileage may vary, but he has a great deal of excellent titles. Perhaps the Black Tide series or the Empire of Man he did with David Weber. Both are excellent and not anything like the Ghost books. Heck the Princess of Wands books are a great read. Same with the Looking Glass books. Personally I enjoyed the Ghost series, Shadowdancer please note I said don’t “Start with it” After you have read some of Johns stuff it’ll… Read more »
Synova
Guest

I warn people off Ghost (the first e-book I’ve ever purchased and I’ve never been so glad in my life not to have it sitting on a shelf in my house where people could find it). It was… interesting… in a number of ways and I’m not sorry to have read it. But I do *warn* people and I haven’t read any more in that series.

I particularly liked Princess of Wands.

Liked the recent Zombie books, too.

Doug Northcote
Guest

It actually does “tone down” a bit and Kildar (book 2) is actually a better book in my opinion. Don’t mistake though, Ghost still is the main protagonist. Same with the rest of the series, its good but not as graphic as Ghost by any means.

But I also freely admit to being a Correia, Ringo, Weber, Bujold, mainly “Baen” publishing Fanboy.

I’ll buy just about any of the books they publish and usually enjoy them.

Shadowdancer
Guest

In fairness, I was warned that it’s THE story that refused to ‘shut up’ until it was written, and I can relate to that. From what I was told he originally just threw it into the Bar, and people were like ‘publish it, we wants.’

I’m more likely to buy the Black Tide series first, after some other things that require my pleasure budget allotment.

mark
Guest

Be advised that Ringo himself has referred to his Ghost series as “Porn” (not sure if that comment is still on his web-site). I love the stories but I tend to skip 10-30% of the pages (varies by book) when I re-read them.

Vancouverois
Guest

For Lois McMaster-Bujold, start with Barrayar. It won the Hugo! Er… back when that still meant something, that is. 😛

masgramondou
Member

Once upon a time one of the Baen CDs had an omnibus ebook of all the Falkenberg Legion books on it. I expect it’s still around on the internets somewhere

Dex
Guest

Lemme go look. Do you remember which author?

Thomas Monaghan
Guest

The Prince Falkenberg all I’m one.

Brian
Guest

Jiltanith. The Fifth Imperium . Used to . Here http://jiltanith.thefifthimperium.com/site/about/-

Jay Harrell
Guest

Legacy of Heorot and the sequel, Beowulf’s Children are two of my favorites. But I’ve never read anything bad by either. Enjoy!

Mike S.
Guest

Every one of the novels the Pournelle and Niven collaborated on were great, but if I had to pick a favorite it would be Footfall, followed closely by Lucifer’s Hammer. For his solo stuff, I think I’d go with anything in the CoDominium series, the books featuring Falkenberg and Sparta in particular. (Even though they are anthologies set in the CoDo universe and just edited by Pournelle, the WarWorld series is also fantastic)

eldiabloloco
Guest

Surprised no one mentioned Fallen Angels. I found that hugely entertaining, but there is a lot of “inside baseball” that goes with it. Maybe not Hugo material when it was written, but today……well, the standards are much lower today, aina?

Just think how much fun that story could be if re-told with today’s GoodFen CHORFs and WrongFen/Puppies involved.

Mr. Pournelle may be out a Hugo, but I’ll keep stuffing Sad and Rabid dollars into his G-string.

Doyle
Guest

Not sure what’s still in print. I started w/ “The Mercernary” and “West of Honor”. As noted elsewhere, Footfall is great as well.

Zavier_Desine
Guest
No Award for Pournelle, and no awarding Larry Elmore. That just blows my mind, Pournelle was one of my first and still abiding loves for military sci-fi. Without whom there very likely may not have been a military sci-fi niche. I used to be friends with Larry Elmore’s manager. Myself and several friends were on our way up to GenCon in Milwaukee (This was it’s last Hurrah before it moved to Indiana). Not even knowing us except for, Murray. He let us have the run of his studio, while he and Murray talked business. I was in heaven, Larry Elmore… Read more »
60guilders
Guest

“Without whom there very likely may not have been a military sci-fi niche.”

For the Puppy kickers, Mil-SF is a bug, not a feature.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

There’s no way that crowd is ever going to give Elmore anything, given that he draws “conventionally attractive” women (i.e., women that a heterosexual man would enjoy having sex with).

palaeomerus
Member

Elmore is considered a deadly enemy of the “sensible woman armor” crowd.

60guilders
Guest

As a member of that crowd, that is untrue. Of course, I came to it from the Rightop rather than the Left, so…

Matthew Martin
Guest

Elmore’s not that bad on the issue … at least, not compared to Caldwell. 🙂

John R. Ellis
Guest

I dunno…I recall the armor in Dragonlance for the female characters actually looked pretty decent. I couldn’t comment on his more recent stuff.

Jay Harrell
Guest

Your husband’s wife’s friend (me) was also stunned. I thought it was a fucking foregone conclusion. “Pournelle? Shit dude, he must have phat stacks of that Hugo shit!”

James Haumann
Guest

And this is one of the reasons I made the decision a couple of years ago to never again attend WorldCon.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

I made that decision about 15 years ago. Haven’t regretted it a bit.

hobanwashburne
Guest

Well the good news is now there’s no need to worry about what goes on in the Little Shop of Horrors anymore. Shake the dust of that place off and move forward into the light. Hopefully Vox will eventually buy up the Worldcon intellectual property at a bankruptcy auction and turn it into a sort of literary equivalent of Minas Morgul. A cautionary tale for SJWs everywhere.

airboy
Guest

Can anyone explain why Supernatural was below “no award?”

This is not: Why did Jessica Jones win for “Smile.” Smile and the entire series are excellent.

But why No Award Supernatural?

Nathan
Guest

Because the Right People did not choose it so it can’t be good.

Skip Callahan
Guest

The whole issue pretty much boils down to that.

Not critique; a compliment.

George Kirby
Guest

Because it has gone on for far too long. The story ARC with Angels was way out of hand. And it isn’t very good. That would be my guess.

J.S. Rose
Guest

It’s a truly sad state that an elitist clique of priggs dictate to the masses. I know that sort if struggle well…and how it drains your patience to nothing. Instead of fighting…you just tell them to duck off. Though on my case I had to apologize to a potential guest for making the trip out on his own dime…because he was not in their little sphere of interest.

anonme
Guest
Honestly the Hugo awards this year? Boring. Oh so very boring. Everything went to those who were expected to. There were no surprises, no suspense, and not even very many “no awards” like last year to liven things up. I even watched the Rabid Puppies stream out of curiosity, and that was boring. Just gentile authors talking about editors and how fast they could crank out manuscripts, while actually ignoring the Hugo ceremony. (And that was still more entertaining than the smug skits that the ceremony was.) And in the end isn’t that the most damning thing that be said?… Read more »
anonme
Guest

Oops, mess that up, should have been “Genteel authors”.

Professor Headbutt
Guest

Thank you. Yes, that does change the mental image a bit. 😆

anonme
Guest

Yeah I imagine it does. Further reminder that just because it doesn’t set off the spellcheck, doesn’t mean it’s the right word. 😆

Professor Headbutt
Guest

If only more of my students would remember that.

Brian Niemeier
Guest

You try interrupting Nick and John when they’re on a roll 😉

anonme
Guest

Fair enough.

Alexandru_Constantin
Member

Exactly. The drama is the only interesting thing about the Hugos,and this year it barely even kept my attention. Why bother when I have so much to read, watch, and play?

Alex
Guest

The most damning thing that can be said (aside from the No Awarding of Greyland’s MZB expose)?

Almost none of the SJW winners bothered to show up. When you can’t even motivate the people you’ve made shoo-ins to get the award to bother to come to your shindig, you’re dead already.

Dr_Mauser
Member

Even if they felt they HAD to cover for the Pedos, if nothing else, Appendix N is virtually the definition of Fan Writing. That got buried too.

Jim C
Guest

Hugos?

Doug Loss
Guest

They used to be an award for good SF. Now they’re a fetish passed back and forth by a small group of SJWs. Happy to help.

Jim C
Guest

sarc

Floyd Looney
Guest

May Dragon-Con be the future

Lawson
Guest
I had a friend go to Worldcon this year. Oddly she didn’t talk about the Hugo’s on her twitter. Anyway, when I checked twitter, it seemed like all the top tweets related to Worldcon were from people against SP, and worst of all she that must not be named…. Briana Wu (I have now cursed the blog). Anyway the Hugo’s and worldcon are pretty much dead. Their only use now is to enjoy the salt that comes from the easily irritated (Scalzi). Lastly, I discovered that there was a Christian meet-up at Worldcon. I am not gonna lie that surprised… Read more »
Synova
Guest

Bigger reason to have a meet up.

trackback

[…] congrats, I guess?  You’ve successfully proven Larry Correia’s point to a degree far in excess of anything he’d ever hoped for.  The small fraction of fandom […]

Old NFO
Guest

Truth to ‘power’, albeit a dying ‘power’… The have cemented their own future obscurity by what they did this weekend. Long live DragonCon!!!

Lawrence Person
Guest
So anonymous it hurts
Guest
So anonymous it hurts

Meanwhile, Mary Robinette Kowal gets a mere rest-of-the-day suspension for serving booze at a reading in violation of written rules, and they took her aside and explained to her exactly what she did wrong, rather than the curt email that Truesdale got.

Tim H
Guest

And what does anyone here make of the Mary Robinette Kowal incident? Everyone is saying how awesome it was that her membership was suspended for a day because she accidentally broke a rule in which nobody appeared to be harmed in any way,

Don’t really know the details; to my European eyes some Americans are weirdly puritanical when it comes to alchohol. So I have no idea whether what she did was big deal or not.

Synova
Guest

The convention hall (or Hotel) will very often not allow food that they don’t provide themselves and since serving alcohol requires government licensing and regulation she probably actually broke laws. The venue would be on the hook, quite possibly and expensively, if they turned a blind eye.

I’m rather shocked that anyone thought it was okay to “open carry” booze. People drink (like fish) in their rooms but in the public areas isn’t it normal to need to put it in a benign container or coffee cup or water bottle?

Synova
Guest

Our con hotel doesn’t allow the convention to serve food… it’s partly because they want to *sell* food but it’s also health department regulations. State requires food handling certification. Same for booze.

Tim H
Guest

Thanks. That makes a bit more sense now, thoough the punishment still seems excessive.

Wyldkat
Guest

??
Excessive for violating an explicitly stated rule? Err, perhaps it is just the LEO in me, but I’d say it wasn’t enough.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

Our alcohol mores were partly formed by cleaner water supplies and populations with fewer alcohol digestive enzymes. At one time we had a drinking culture where eye gouging was optional, but opting out unmanly. Alcohol political questions were contested over a period where we had a civil war, an insurgency, and internal campaigns of terrorism. The history gives context to the present.

So anonymous it hurts
Guest
So anonymous it hurts
And then there’s this poor dude, who was also expelled via email but didn’t find out until he got home. http://darthtroutman.livejournal.com/33990.html Protip to ConComms: If you’re going to expel someone from your convention, best do it in person. I realize that this means you might get icky conservative cooties all over you, but it beats the alternative where the person is blissfully unaware they’ve done anything wrong and just keeps attending. I still love how they personally took MRK aside and explained to her almost apologetically exactly what she did and why they had to suspend her for the rest… Read more »
Shadowdancer
Guest

“Rules are for little people.” I guess we are seeing that very much in display from the Worldcon.

Kevin Findley
Guest

I think the last time I used Hugo winners as a buying checklist was ’85 when Neuromancer won. Now, I don’t most of those books, novellas and short stories would even be nominated.

kyrahalland
Member

I use them as a “Do Not Buy” checklist.

CarlosT
Guest

The Hugos have become a reverse Good Housekeeping Seal, guaranteeing the contents inside will be wretched, painful to read, dreck. Which is useful in its own way.

Lawson
Guest

Always a silver lining.

Doug Loss
Guest

Exactly. Having an infallible indication of dreck can be pretty handy. Now if we could get the SJWs to award anti-Hugos to let us know which works they particularly hate, those might be useful markers of things to read…

Tom Simon
Guest

A pretty good indicator: Look for the work voted immediately below NO AWARD in any given category. That’s the one they hate most, and probably the most worth reading.

Jacob
Guest
Write a good book and let the readers decide. I think most writers would prefer to get paid vs. winning an award anyways. I understand winning an awards equals more exposure equals more money but the Hugo have been so tarnished it’s not going to attract anyone outside of their little group. The people that don’t know what’s going on and read the crap they award are not going to pick up a hugo award winning book again. Personally I think the Hugo’s fell off the grid when that horrible piece of shit Redshirts won it. I throw up a… Read more »
Fossegrimen
Guest
The reason that the Hugos should be fixed is that awards cause wider ripples. I still remember browsing the library shelves back in 1980 and coming across a book proudly displaying “Winner of the Hugo Award”. My thought process went: – hmm, Science fiction, I’ve never read any, could be worth a try – This one has won an award, must be the best they got – So obviously a good place to start. That book was “The Forever War” and my reaction was “Sci-Fi is AWESOME, I have to read EVERYTHING!!11!!1” If that had happened today, the reaction would… Read more »
Christopher Woods
Guest

Sad part was that Gaiman had someone else present his acceptance speech where he insulted the “Puppies”. Seems like he could have been there in person if he was going to insult people.

The Phantom
Guest

Wait, he wasn’t even there? Bwaha! What a goof!

Alex
Guest

Most of the winners didn’t show. Jemisin, Okprafor, etc.

The Phantom
Guest
What’s funny is these SJW geniuses think they won something. http://phantomsoapbox.blogspot.ca/2016/08/hugo-awards-politics-wins.html Yep, they BEAT the Puppies and kept the Hugos pure. All they’ve done, every fricking year, is prove you right, Larry. 100% dead on right. Here’s a perfect example of the kind of “fun” we can expect at cons in the future, from the SJWs: http://phantomsoapbox.blogspot.ca/2016/08/more-progressive-pants-wetting-replica.html Now with names named and pictures provided. He’s a peach, believe me. Replica guns, you see, are only okay if they are -fantasy- replicas. Like replicas of phaser guns. A replica of a -real- gun IS DISGUSTING!!!!11! At some point the people who… Read more »
Doug Northcote
Guest

“All they’ve done, every fricking year, is prove you right, Larry. 100% dead on right.”

The comment that comes to my mind from this statement is: How many times can you shoot out paper in the center of the target. The idiots stopped noticing that the X in the 10 ring has been gone. 4 years ago.

And it keeps getting shot through, again and again.

The Phantom
Guest

A whole nine yard belt through the same hole.

Chris L
Guest

Their prize is to let Vox Day live in their heads rent free for another year. They deserve to get their prize, good and hard.

Christopher
Guest

Larry, I’mma start my own awards once I get some sponsors… The Best American Conservative and libertarian science fictiON and fantasy Awards…. the BACON Awards.
Ideally the winners would get Bacon for a year, and a nice Pork-centric trophy, but I can’t afford those yet….

trackback

[…] Correia has re-entered into the Hugo debate, apparently to lambast Hugo voters for not voting for the Rabid Puppies. As so often happens, Larry […]

Tim H
Guest
Although my politics are almost 180% in opposition to yours, it’s hard to disagree with anything you say here. I think it’s impossible for the Hugos to be a big tent covering all of SF any more, the scene is too big and too fragmented. Time to let Worldcon and The Hugos be what they want to be, for the puppies to leave them alone, and for Worldcon to stop pretending The Hugos represent any more than one small subset of a much wider fandom. Whether that counts as victory or defeat for either side depends on what you think… Read more »
hobanwashburne
Guest

I’m guessing Vox will continue to twist the knife for as long as they don’t sue for peace (and probably after that). If I didn’t know that his ancestry was otherwise, I’d think he had Sicilian blood. They do like a vendetta.

FeatherBlade
Guest

American tribal, apparently.

Taking his time taking their scalps.

SheSellsSeashells
Guest

First I just wanted to be heard. Then I got insulted, lost friends, got insulted some more, had my intelligence, compassion, intelligence, humanity, intelligence, and freakin’ gender maligned. Repeatedly. Frequently by liberal friends who genuinely cannot perceive that someone they like might believe things they don’t.

Now I want blood.

Metaphorically, for any pearl-clutchers who might be reading.

Chris L
Guest

I still don’t get the “we hate Vox Day so much, we’re going to do exactly what he wants us to do” mentality. Are they so stupid they don’t see what he’s doing, or are they so addicted to virtue signalling that they can’t help themselves?

SheSellsSeashells
Guest

I’d put it as “and” on about a 20/80 ratio. And the 20 is not so much “stupid” as “virtue signalling poses no risk, since all good people think exactly like me”. Whereas if I breathe Word One in a pro-Puppy manner (Sad OR Rabid), I will be dogpiled by damn near every F&SF-friendly acquaintance I have.

Dr_Mauser
Member

Hell, I recently had some CHORF with a Burner account on Facebook try to blackmail me into silence… by using publicly available information that I posted myself. It was kind of pathetic. Alas, it got deleted before I could find out about the secret puppy mailing list he and I are supposedly on that he uses a secret identity with to stalk me. He fancies himself quite the puppy-killer. I laughed. I screenshotted. I’ll clip it all together eventually.

Shadowdancer
Guest

It’s hilarious; aren’t they the side that was going ‘doxxing is evil.’
That’d be a stupid thing to attempt after @mombot exposed several anti-Gamergate people of trying excitedly to dox her with false information she and another GG-er were stringing them along with.
(For those who don’t know: Dox: expose someone’s real identity details- name, address, place of work, relatives – with malicious intent; usually to have the person harassed out of work; or for the person to be sent threats in person, or be SWATted.)

John R. Ellis
Guest

I own so many books and comics written by Gaiman. I genuinely love a lot of his stuff.

But over the years, I’ve noticed he has some serious blindspots that he will never budge on. Prior to this, the most recent example was his essay on Charlie Hebdo, where he simultaneously tried to stand in support for the French cartoonists while at the same time pretended that only Evil Right Wing Conservative Male White Christians ever, ever, EVER commit acts of terrorism.

*sigh*

Rowan
Guest

Like you, I painted miniatures during the Hugos. Pournelle? WTF? Larry motha-frakking-Elmore too?! Wow, as a child of 1980s RPGs, he is what I imagine stuff looks like in many cases, all painted up in my imagination in his style. Ah well, the death of the Hugo is now complete.

jic
Guest

I hope nobody bothers with a Sad Puppies 5. Time to forget about the Hugos and let Worldcon continue its slide into obscurity and irrelevance.

Doug Loss
Guest

I think most folks didn’t really bother with SP4. The point had been made and everyone pretty much just ignored WorldCon, as they should have.

anonme
Guest

I can’t speak for others, but after last year, I certainly wasn’t going to spend $40 again something like that. I mainly just watched.

The Phantom
Guest

I don’t know, I’d pay money to watch those scooter riding schmucks no-award a bunch more stuff next year.

C.S. Gilmore
Guest

Well, pretty much everyone here knew the Hugos have fallen into a political mess of sucking, so, wonder how long it will continue before either a revolution or full on self implosion, I’m hoping for the later as that could be at least amusing to watch as political snobs turn on each other even more fully than they already have.

Doug Loss
Guest

Neither will happen. What is much more likely is that WorldCon and the Hugos will continue to decline to irrelevancy (not that there’s much more decline possible, as they’re pretty much completely irrelevant now), with the SJWs muttering to themselves while they pass meaningless Hugos back and forth, occasionally cackling and shrieking about how they showed those everything-ist Puppies a thing or two, didn’t they!

Joe in PNG
Guest

There’s also the possibility that in 5 years there will be much wondering and lamenting by the puppy kickers regarding the dwindling numbers at Worldcon, and the increasing irrelevancy of the Hugo to the world at large.

Rogers Cadenhead
Guest

The Hugos are not a lifetime achievement award. Jerry Pournelle edited one book in 2015. Larry Elmore and Toni Weisskopf did not provide anything in the Hugo packet to let voters know the work they did in 2015.

Though all three are legends and it would be exciting to see them win Hugos, voters given nothing to base an editor or artist nominee on will probably choose somebody else.

This is especially true if they reached the ballot because of a bloc voting campaign.

P.s. Good luck in the Dragon Awards.

jamesawolf
Member
This is going to meander a bit, so bear with me. Also the names and geography is vague to protect V. This weekend I had some nerd friends at my Mom’s (near) beach house for a cookout. It’s an annual thing and there’s usually a game of Munchkin. Now, all the folks are regular congoers, gamers SF fen and so forth, though some more than others. In fact, one couple had been at Sasquan. Still, every one could be seen at local SF cons. Heck, one of them was introduced to congoing by me personally. Another salient point is that… Read more »
Dex
Guest

I wound up hanging out with Jim Butcher’s sister Saturday night, after chiming in on a conversation about Sad vs Rabid. I’ve decided that it’s like unto someone hearing that I’m a Johnson supporter, and calling me a Trumpanzee.

jamesawolf
Member

The TL:DR version, As Robert Conquest allegedly said, “I told you so, you f****ing fools!”

Jay Harrell
Guest

I’m new to the whole saga of the Puppies and Hugo awards and quite frankly, I don’t want to get involved. But I am f*cking astounded that Pournelle hasn’t been honored. Half the writing team of Niven and Pournelle hasn’t been given an award? Bullshit. Niven has won, as he so richly deserved, but not Pournelle? What the hell not?

Shadowdancer
Guest

I’m afraid that the answer to ‘Why the hell not” is the same answer to “Why did Larry begin Sad Puppies 1, and 2.”

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Of all the things they did this year, No-Awarding Pournelle and Elmore just because we nominated them was the lowest act of all. Absolutely uncalled for. I could see if they didn’t win? But that? Despicable.

Oh, and Mr. Gaiman? Don’t be so proud: you got that Hugo by default.

trackback

[…] from here on out with the advent of the Dragon Awards, from our Supreme Dark Lord and the International Lord of Hate. All I have to say is that I’m glad I didn’t waste $50 on a supporting membership, much […]

Mts. Wright
Guest

Gaiman’s words surprised me because I know at least one of his people is a Puppy… I wonder if he knows anything about the subject or if someone gave him the two-minute, one-sided explanation

Still, very sad.

Alex
Guest

Given that he apparently thought he was nominated by the Sad Puppies, his knowledge seems minimal.

Spacefaringkitten
Guest

Bad No Award choices, huh?

Toni Weisskopf and Larry Elmore who didn’t care enough to even tell the voters what their work was published last year?

Moira Greyland whose anti-gay screed boils down to “homosexuals are pedophiles”?

Cannot say that I was surprised by their No Awards, even though I voted for Elmore myself.

Randy P.
Guest

You people always find a way of covering for pedophiles. It’s no wonder your clique is so tiny and freakish.

Shadowdancer
Guest

Moira Greyland whose anti-gay screed boils down to “homosexuals are pedophiles”?
If that’s what you think Greyland’s piece was about, then you clearly did not read it. And thus, you’re proven a liar. Keep apologizing for the pedophile rapists, pedophile supporter.

Alex
Guest

Anyone who No Awarded Greyland’s expose is a piece of shit. No exceptions.

Jack
Guest

I stopped reading Gaiman a long time ago.

Carliro
Guest

So basically you consider an evangelical theocrat, a neo-fascist and a racial supremacist embodiments of what “freedom of speech” should entail.

It’s almost like conservatives are self-serving sociopaths…

Synova
Guest

It’s amazing how dedicated some people are to the Freedom of Approved Speech, Ideas, and Faiths.

Patrick Chester
Guest

They imagine themselves being the ones deciding whom is and is not Approved. Then whinge when it doesn’t happen.

Patrick Chester
Guest

No, conservatives just understand what freedom means and that it applies even to people they don’t like.

Which includes morons like yourself.

(Since if you were silenced, no one could point out you using the usual prog “So…” comment which says more about your own prejudices than it does about the people you hatefully label “self-serving sociopaths” .)

Randy P.
Guest

“So basically” is an SJW tell. It’s a way to rhetorically sum up their opinion without offering any facts.

Progressives will do anything to cover for pedophiles, though.

Patrick Chester
Guest

A way for them to fabricate something and then attribute it to their opponent, and usually it doesn’t match that opponent’s views. At all.

jic
Guest

I love it, because it can be used to imply bad motives no matter how neutral the statement:

“I prefer granola to muesli”

“So, basically, you’re a small-minded bigot who hates the Swiss?

Robin Munn
Guest

While it can be an SJW tell, I’ve used that phrase myself: “So basically, you’re saying that (short, but accurate summary of their argument). Is that right? Well, then here’s my rebuttal…” Note the “accurate” part of that sentence, though.

Doug Loss
Guest

Project much?

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Ah, yes, the “conservatives are evil sociopaths” argument. I’ve noticed this one a lot lately. The Left loves it because it cloaks their hatred of the other side in the language of psychology and science.

Matthew Martin
Guest

Didn’t the Soviet Union use the same trick?

Votermom
Guest

This Noah Ward guy must be raking it in with all the awards he’s getting!
But a serious question about the Dragon Awards – in the YA category. Can anyone tell me if there are any SJWs on that list? I’d hate to vote for one by accident. Thanks!

Book
Guest

Just read the books and vote for the one you found most enjoyable. That’s it. 🙂

Chris L
Guest

Now that’s just crazy talk. 😀

airboy
Guest

Money will get you through times of no Hugos better than Hugos will get you through times of no money. – Jerry Pournelle

From Pournelle’s latest blog post!

Mary Claire Miller
Guest
I think I must be naive or something, or maybe just busy. Who cares about an authors politics, colour of skin, gender etc.? Who has time to research each individual author and what you may or may not agree with. I am just looking for a engaging, entertaining and enjoyable book to read. As long as you write a good book, I want to read it. I thoroughly enjoyed Novik’s Uprooted as much as all of Ringo’s and Webers novels. Larry’s MHI series just makes me smile and I am looking forward to rereading the entire series before I indulge… Read more »
palaeomerus
Member

comment image

palaeomerus
Member

comment image

palaeomerus
Member

Hey Wil, big fan! What’s distrube? BLOCKED

DeTroyes
Guest
For what its worth…. I was actually at this year’s WorldCon and watched the Hugo awards from the Consuite area. The one thing I heard quite regularly concerning N.K. Jemisin’s Best Novel Hugo was “I actually thought the novel was pretty mediocre, but I voted for it to send a message.” Also, at least one person I met refused to vote for Moira Greyland because they thought “she should have kept her damn mouth shut” about her abuse. On the plus side, a good number of the people I met simply rolled their eyes when the subject of the Hugo… Read more »
60guilders
Guest

“Also, at least one person I met refused to vote for Moira Greyland because they thought “she should have kept her damn mouth shut” about her abuse.”

Waitwaitwait…whaaaaaaaaat? I’m rather surprised that you didn’t follow that sentence with “And then Satan himself appeared in a cloud of sulfurous fumes to give this person a thumbs-up.”

Shadowdancer
Guest

AND WE’RE SOMEHOW THE ONES WHO ARE AGAINST RAPE VICTIMS. Holy crap.

DeTroyes
Guest

Honestly, that was the point I just decided to extricate myself from the discussion. But yeah, the comment did annoy me. The woman (60-ish) was probably a little drunk, so I’m guessing she just voiced something she might ordinarily have kept to herself.

I’m pretty sure most WorldCon attendees would have been appalled, tho; for the most part the conversations in fandom I’ve heard about Greyland’s abuse allegations have been quite supportive of her.

Shadowdancer
Guest

Then the conversations you’ve heard are more sensible. The kind that are supportive of her usually get thrown into the SadPuppy pile with us, and then the ones who aren’t are also trying to paint her as anti-gay for her opinions. See above.

DeTroyes
Guest

Around here Greyland’s views on gay marriage tend to get couched in terms of, “remember where she’s coming from.” tones. Even those who disagree with her on that issue seem to accept it; they may disagree on her conclusions, but they understand how she arrived at it.

To be sure, I think there is a core group of MZB supporters who can be regarded as true Darkover Zealots, who will not stand for their goddess to be slandered no matter what the evidence. But I think they are an extreme minority.

Shadowdancer
Guest
Greyland’s views on gay marriage tend to get couched in terms of, “remember where she’s coming from.” tones. Even those who disagree with her on that issue seem to accept it; they may disagree on her conclusions, but they understand how she arrived at it. That’s how I feel. Mind, I’m aware that there are children of homosexual parents speaking out against homosexual parenting; and – this is my opinion – the problem isn’t having homosexual parents, it’s homosexuals who focus on identity-politics driven agendas over being parents. Hell, I think parents who focus on identity politics over being the… Read more »
DeTroyes
Guest

Just read some of those comments above. Wow.

I seem to be missing out on all the really “fun” conversations. :-/

Shadowdancer
Guest

That’s why I subscribe to the post. I miss out on these by dint of timezone (yay, living in Australia!) -but I can sort of catch up later.

Alex
Guest

1800+ people (well, 1800+ ballots, anyway) voted against her account.

Tells me all I need to know about WorldCon “fandom.”

imnohbody
Guest

The woman (60-ish) was probably a little drunk, so I’m guessing she just voiced something she might ordinarily have kept to herself.

I guess that’s a demonstration of in vino, veritas

Wyldkat
Guest
“The one thing I heard quite regularly concerning N.K. Jemisin’s Best Novel Hugo was “I actually thought the novel was pretty mediocre, but I voted for it to send a message.” Also, at least one person I met refused to vote for Moira Greyland because they thought “she should have kept her damn mouth shut” about her abuse.” On the first, does not surprise me. On the second – I am very glad I did not hear that. That is a slap in face to *ALL* rape, child molestation survivors. I do not know that I could have stayed calm,… Read more »
Doug Loss
Guest

Kat, some folks just need a good slapping. Staying civil in the face of that isn’t required, or even advised, so far as I’m concerned.

Fruitbat44
Guest
Blissfully unaware of the 2016 Hugos, which I suppose speaks volumes. But I will say my piece about Jonathon Ross and the 2014 Hugos. (Disclaimer: Unlike Neil Gaiman I don’t personally know the guy, this is just based off what I’ve seen of him on TV.) I think that most Brits, certainly myself, wouldn’t want JR presenting the Hugos, not because he might say something non-Politically Correct, but because he’s a jerk. Smug, self-centred and tiresomely juvenile; the sort of chap if he was twice as funny as he was would still only be half as funny as he thinks… Read more »
jic
Guest

I’m offended by your description of Jonathan Ross as a jerk. He’s clearly a dipshit.

kamas716
Guest

wouldn’t want JR presenting the Hugos, not because he might say something non-Politically Correct, but because he’s a jerk. Smug, self-centred and tiresomely juvenile

THAT sounds like most of the comedians holding forth on nightly TV to me, which is why I refuse to watch tripe like The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, Last Week Tonight…

trackback

[…] award winners were largely predictable.  Unless otherwise clearly supported, the vote was against the puppies and either “No […]

George Kirby
Guest

So I think congrats are in order for awarding some fine SFF. I read a lot of them. Impressive. Particularly “Fifth Season”.

And congrats to the Worldcon FANS for taking back there award from the culture warriors. A lot of good work at the business meeting. I think the Doggy Wars are over. That’s nice. Neil Gaiman was spot on.

At the end of the day, the FANS spoke. And Chuck Tingle was right – “Love is real.”