Monster Hunter Nation

Sad Puppies maligned in the Guardian and New Yorker. It must be the voting deadline week!

I’m not going to bother to link to click bait. (seriously, googled my name for the last 24 hours to find the New Yorker article I’d been told about, and it barely made the first page, which is a pretty good indicator of how popular the New Yorker actually is)

It is more of the same old tired narrative. The Guardian interviewed N.K. Jemisin, where of course the Sad Puppies campaign was all about white men motivated by their white maleness. And the New Yorker interviewed Samuel Delany, where somehow they can interview an actual NAMBLA supporter and yet the most controversial thing talked about is me and Sad Puppies.

Since I’m really busy, here is the entirety of my Fisking of the pertinent bits, the New Yorker is in italics, and my super in depth response is in bold.

On the phone recently, I suggested to Delany that Asimov’s poor attempt at humor—which, whatever its intent, also served as a reminder, as Delany notes in “Racism and Science Fiction,” that his racial identity would forever be in the minds of his white peers, no matter the occasion—foreshadowed a more recent controversy, centered on a different set of sci-fi awards. In January, 2013, the novelist Larry Correia explained on his Web site how fans, by joining the World Science Fiction Society, could help nominate him for a Hugo Award, something that would, he wrote, “make literati snob’s [sic] heads explode.” Correia contrasted the “unabashed pulp action” of his books with “heavy handed message fic about the dangers of fracking and global warming and dying polar bears.” In a follow-up post, citing an old SPCA commercial about animal abuse, he used the tag “Sad Puppies”; what he later called “the Sad Puppies Hugo stacking campaign” has grown to become a real force in deciding who gets nominated for the Hugo Awards. The ensuing controversy has been described, by Jeet Heer in the New Republic, as “a cultural war over diversity,” since the Sad Puppies, in their pushback against perceived liberals and experimental writers, seem to favor the work of white men.

 

Diversity my ass. Last years winners were like a dozen white liberals and one Asian liberal and they hailed that as a huge win for diversity. 

 

Delany said he was dismayed by all this, but not surprised. “The context changes,” he told me, “but the rhetoric remains the same.”

 

Well, that’s a stupid conclusion. 

 

In the contemporary science-fiction scene, Delany’s race and sexuality do not set him apart as starkly as they once did. I suggested to him that it was particularly disappointing to see the kind of division represented by the Sad Puppies movement within a culture where marginalized people have often found acceptance. Delany countered that the current Hugo debacle has nothing to do with science fiction at all. “It’s socio-economic,” he said. In 1967, as the only black writer among the Nebula nominees, he didn’t represent the same kind of threat. But Delany believes that, as women and people of color start to have “economic heft,” there is a fear that what is “normal” will cease to enjoy the same position of power. “There are a lot of black women writers, and some of them are gay, and they are writing about their own historical moment, and the result is that white male writers find themselves wondering if this is a reverse kind of racism. But when it gets to fifty per cent,” he said, then “we can talk about that.” It has nothing to do with science fiction, he reiterated. “It has to do with the rest of society where science fiction exists.”

 

Really, nobody cares.

SJWs are the only people who seem to care what color an author is. Everybody else just wants to be entertained rather than beaten over the head with the cause of the day. If our secret goal was to keep publishing white and male we sure sucked at it.

Great. Micro Fisking complete. Sure, the Sad Puppy related parts of these are filled with nonsense and I could do a whole giant Fisk, but I’m tired of repeating myself. Now I’ve got to get back to work, because “economic heft” has nothing to do with winning snooty awards, and everything to do with producing work that people want to give you money for.

Fisking the Guardian's Latest Sad Puppy Article of the Week
Behind the scenes look at Special Project N
Keith Glass
Guest

Who SAYS there’s no Media-SJW Complex ?? (grin)

Keith Glass
Guest

However, in POSITIVE news, the Exploding Kittens Kickstarter shipped today. So I’ll just strap on my Portable Cheetah Butt and zip right past the blatherings on the Noo Porker and el Gruniad. . .

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

The Media-SJW Complex, of course.

Henry Smith
Guest

“SJW’s always lie.” The New Yorker is an SJW publication.

Quel surprise at the obvious lies in the article.

Dave W.
Guest

Just when I think that the New Yorker couldn’t be LESS relevant, they pull crap like this. My expectations weren’t low enough!

Brad R. Torgersen
Guest

You have to love all the establishment media outlets who’ve been vigorously punching down at Sad Puppies all year long: Salon, The Atlantic, The New Yorker, The Guardian, etc. Because the left-wing media always sticks up for the little guy! Yup, Yupper. Yuppity yup yup.

Zsuzsa
Guest

But the Sad Puppies are White males (except for the ones who aren’t but we don’t acknowledge those exist), and every good SJW knows that attacking White males is always “punching up.”

(As a side note, can I just say how much I hate this idea of “directional punching”? It’s no more than an excuse for why those who dish out abuse shouldn’t have to take it in return.)

Synova
Guest

A statement about “punching up” is a statement of personal superiority. It is only possible to make that statement if one is looking DOWN.

If a person is not looking down on others… the punching is not directional. It’s just *punching*.

rocinante
Guest

Remember, in the cultural Marxist worldview, you are either oppressor or oppressed, and the moral authority to define right/wrong, up/down, etc., etc. belongs to, and only to, the oppressed.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Funny, they want to talk about Delaney’s sexuality, but can’t be bothered to mention the five thousand pound elephant in the room.

Av willis
Guest

I don’t know if it’s a elephant so much as a hogg

Dave W.
Guest

I see what you did there! 😀

Dave W.
Guest

Almost forgot to mention, I already voted and the SJWs would’ve hated every click. They can suck it! 😀

Brad Handley
Guest

Nope all the Sad Puppies wanted you to do was vote for what you read and enjoyed. Did you do that?

Dave W.
Guest

LOL, everything that I enjoyed reading is something they look down their noses on and hate. Nice try, though. 😀

Wyrdbard
Guest

@Dave W. Pretty much, though I’m still trying to get through the novellas and Novellettes before tomorrow midnight, been voting as I go so at least part of my ballot will be filled out. MUST READ FASTER. I doubt they’d be happy with my analysis of the contenders any more than the votes that resulted from that analysis.

Andrew
Guest
The gall of this article pisses me the fuck off. Lord knows I don’t agree with Larry on a whole host of things, but your feelings of being treated like a pariah are totally and completely justified. What the fuck else are you supposed to feel? The idea that a child rape apologist is higher up on the moral high ground than a guy who wants to change gun laws is fucking insane. And over the last couple of weeks everyone seems to praising this guy to heaven? http://shetterly.blogspot.com/2014/07/a-conversation-with-samuel-r-delany.html One of the counselors I went to for help with my… Read more »
Kyra
Guest

Reading that interview made me feel physically sick.

Andrew
Guest

That’s a completely healthy reaction. It’s hard stuff to look at and think about in its entirety. It makes me feel bad to talk about it, though less than it used to. It takes a lot of unpleasant work to be able to discuss it without it overshadowing your whole day or week. What I can’t stand is when the people who advocate against this shit keep overlooking it because of politics.

Greg
Guest

“I know that no one cares about male rape because it’s something no one wants to think about and it doesn’t give anyone a heroic chubby to imagine helping a male rape victim”

From some of the attitudes I’ve been exposed to over recent years, I suspect that it goes well beyond “not caring” and well into “gets them off”, with a healthy dose of “revenge/shoe’s on the other foot” for spice.

Andrew
Guest
Now that I’m less angry, I’d hope that isn’t true and I doubt it is for very many people (SFF seems to have a lot of individuals with mental health opportunities, so I’m sure there’s one or two who feel that way) as much as I think politics is a contributing reason people are choosing not to think about it. In my experience, when things like this happen, people burn every expendable calorie in every available neuron to not notice it because 1. it makes them feel sick to their stomach and 2. it’s a lot easier to keep on… Read more »
Zsuzsa
Guest

I made it through about a third of the interview at that link before I had to stop.

At least I no longer need to worry that I’m taking Delany out of context and judging him by one remark he made in a speech twenty years ago. He really does believe that adult men should be having sex with really young boys.

Andrew
Guest

Yeah… he’s definitely not trying to hide it. Which makes it all even more baffling.

Julie Frost
Guest

It fascinates me how they can talk ABOUT Sad Puppies without actually talking TO any Sad Puppies. Journalism is dead.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

They don’t need to do journalism. They already know all the facts. Just like Rolling Stone.

Brad R. Torgersen
Guest

I was telling Sarah Hoyt (last night) that of the four different left-wing journalists who actually contacted me, about Sad Puppies, so far as I know none of them took my suggestion to contact and talk to Sarah. My conclusion is that a strong female Puppy personality is not convenient to the narrative those reporters had in mind. Journalism has always been a little yellow around the edges. But these days they don’t even try to hide the bias. It’s yellow all the way through.

Craig(2)
Guest

Nothing so far has topped the Tea Party story where the media zoomed in to show someone in a blue shirt that brought his (AR-15, I think) to a rally…. but carefully kept zoomed in on the shirt, lest they reveal he was a black man happily attending and happily welcomed at a Tea Party rally.

But you see a whole lot of it, overall.

Reziac
Guest

Hmm. And here I thought it was just their bellies that were yellow…

Quilly
Guest

Jeet Heer is a nobody reviewer from the plains of Saskatchewan who’s made a name by being one of the first to savage Larry as a Real SF Journalist. Follow the money.

TallDave
Guest

Priorities correct. Now, let’s get back to what’s important: shelves!

perlhaqr
Guest

Yep. Until about 30 seconds ago, I didn’t know Delany was black, nor did I care. It’s really pretty irrelevant, compared to the support for NAMBLA. Blah, blah, “not the color of their skin but the content of their character”, what? Oh, nevermind, whoever it was that said that sounds like some kid of total racist. [/sarc weight=’heavy’]

perlhaqr
Guest

s/ kid / kind /; dangit

TallDave
Guest

On my e-reader, everyone is black. And Helvetica.

Robin Munn
Guest

I want to give you five thumbs-up for that one!

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Yes, but they all come from a white background.

perlhaqr
Guest

Actually, all my authors have a black background. And are green. So… I guess they’re Orcs?

Nohbody
Guest

Or Martians.

*waves to Marvin*

Moses Lambert
Guest

Internet Award of the Day!

Tim
Guest

Yep, my response on reading he was black was “Wait, Delany’s black?” I think I heard it at some point before as well, but I completely forgot about it in comparison to the whole [at least supporting men who] rape children.

george ashmore
Guest

I have followed every one of Larry’s posts–when did he EVER call it a ” stacking campaign”?

deadcenter
Guest

1st sentence in the post linked to ‘the Sad Puppies Hugo stacking campaign’.

votes have been cast in each category I was able to read or view, sadly that’s fewer than I’d like in some and more in others. Although, this being my first time voting, more than one category had me asking, “there’s a category for that?…Why?”

Stephen St. Onge
Guest

There’s a category for that because the people who show up at the Business Meeting like to give each other awards.

On another subject: how do you turn on WordPress’s new, improved automatic identifier for comment posting? Their help file tells me to click on things that don’t appear to be in the page? Anybody whose actually done it recently that can help?

luckymarty
Guest

I clicked through the “the Sad Puppies Hugo stacking campaign” link, and saw that it was about SP1 back in 2013. But the interesting thing there is that the Hugo voters beat your expectations in several categories: yes, they went for Redshirts in Best Novel, but Sanderson won Best Novella for “The Emperor’s Soul” (as we agree he should have), Seanan McGuire was beaten out for Best Novelette (by what I thought was the best of a rather weak field), and Stan Schmidt finally got his Hugo.

John Richard Ellis
Guest

Weird that someone who as recently as, um, LAST YEAR stated that he believes a seven year old can have a consensual sexual relationship with an adult is being lauded and looked up to as a paragon of virtue and wisdom.

Rob Crawford
Guest

Delaney’s black? And gay?

I truly had no idea.

Stephen St. Onge
Guest

And he had his first sexual experience at age six, and was sexually active since age nine.

Greg
Guest

In other words, he’s psychologically and morally messed up.

TimP
Guest

I knew he was gay given the whole fan of men-raping-boys thing (which to the best of my knowledge he has never actually denied or admitted to himself).

richard mcenroe
Guest

AND a pedo prevert but WTH…

Moses Lambert
Guest

My Two Cents’ Worth (You get what you pay for): I buy 2 dozen or so books each and every month (yes, I read like a dragonfly munches mosquitoes; the only reason I’m not buried under books is that a lot of them are ebooks these days, though certainly not all). Except for a VERY few authors I happen to have seen photographs of, I have no idea what color their skin is or what sex they are. I don’t care, either. I’m only interested in the quality and entertainment or scholarly value of the work.

Jeff Gauch
Guest

That obviously makes you racist. Unless you’re a minority.

Brian Niemeier
Guest

Reading Delany’s perverse rationalizations and the Morlocks’ justifications for their repeated libel shows similar levels of self-delusion at work.

M. Kupari
Guest

OH NO, LARRY. A CHILD MOLESTER DOESN’T LIKE YOU. NOOOOoooo.

James May
Guest

The genre has rejected the sexually confused Matriarchy, postcolonial gaze, cultural appropriation and black privilege of Delany and Jemisin.

As we say in Norway – tough titty.

#OnlyMyLifeMatters

SJW75126
Guest

Nice article. Thanks.

Ed Noell
Guest

I honestly didn’t know Samuel Delany wasn’t wa white male. I don’t think I’ve ever cared what the author looked like, what race he was or anything else. if I liked his writing, I read it.

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[…] The short “fisking” in history — Larry Correia strikes back at Sad Puppies references in The New Yorker’s Delany interview The boldfaced sentences below are literally 66% of what he had to […]

Old NFO
Guest

Yep, that last frantic scramble to discredit us a wrongfans… Screw em…

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Apparently there are a significant number of new Hugo voters this year. No matter your view of SP, this is good.

Frank Probst
Guest

My fantasy is that all of these new voters are actually puppets of the Chinese government who are registering just to vote for The Three-Body Problem, but I admit to having an overly-ironic sense of humor.

David MacKinnon
Guest

Write more books, Larry! These gibbering moonbats can screech and preen to each other and hand out “prestigious” awards to one another all day. I guess you will have to make due with all the giant piles of money you get each time a new novel of yours lifts from my wallet.

I vote with my pocket book, and make no apologies if I don’t like someones preachy crap.

DeTroyes
Guest

For what its worth (probably zilch), I posted my Hugo Awards vote.
https://fortressofif.wordpress.com/2015/07/27/my-hugo-awards-vote/

I’ve probably just alienated some online friends by not voting No Award for most things, but the hell with it.

richard mcenroe
Guest

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. If you solely voted on ideology you’d be an SJW.

DeTroyes
Guest

I simply treated it like any other year I’ve voted. Its the anti- side that wants me to make an exception to that this year.

richard mcenroe
Guest

Just finished my 1st draft of the ballot. No Award has to go in as the bottom pick, or better to leave it unpicked?

J. MacKenzie
Guest

Leave it blank.

emlin
Guest

I left it unpicked, always, based on my understanding of how the voting works (which could be wrong, someone please correct me!).

I *think* that no award is treated just like another candidate, so if two groups of people rank basically opposite, but with no award in the middle, then no award is even more likely to win and I would rather not see that happen.

Patrick Chester
Guest

I think they let you make a partial ballots. I’m getting to the point where I’m going to have to not give some categories a vote because I haven’t gotten to the material. I’m *not* using “No Award” unless I read/review every entry in the category and find all of them so annoying that *none* of them get a vote.

(If I simply don’t like any in a category, I’m simply leaving it blank. The nominees will have to work together to get a “No Award” from me. *evil grin*)

Brian Niemeier
Guest

Depends. If you want some works to win, leave the stuff you deem undeserving blank (partial ballots are allowed).
Only use No Award at all if you want to burn the Hugos down.

Kathryn
Guest
Thanks for the explanations, guys. I thought No Award was for stuff that sucked so badly you would rather see nothing win than it, and there were three works in that category for me (one of them actually was a Puppy suggestion…I’m sorry, but it stunk), but you all make good points that selecting it at all makes it more likely to win, which isn’t what I want. I’ll go back and unselect it. For the stuff I didn’t like, though, is leaving it blank good enough to register not liking it? It’s supposed to be the least disliked item… Read more »
Frank Probst
Guest

I THINK (I’m not certain, so if there’s someone who knows the rules, please chime in.) that there are some weird rules involving No Award, so you should only use it if you think something should go BELOW it on your ballot.

Craig(2)
Guest
My understanding is that two simple vote patterns can be: A: 1) Skin Game, 2) 3-Body Problem (3-6 Blank) Would mean: I think Skin Game should win; if it loses then 3-Body; after that I don’t care who wins Whereas B: 1) Skin Game, 2) 3-Body problem, 3) No Award Would mean that I’d rather see nobody win than anything other than what I nominated. There are two ways for No Award to have effect: either a) if No Award beats a title in the category outright (via the preference ballot tabulation), or b) if No award is ranked higher… Read more »
James May
Guest
Delany has one thing right – none of this is about SFF. This is about racial animus being pushed under an umbrella of “social justice.” The fact you find such a thing within SFF says more about weird obsessions and racial narcissism than the history of SFF. Delany’s goofball formula where the more non-whites enter SFF the more whites feel threatened is the same nonsensical fraud the entire cult has been selling from day one in order the raise their own profiles and justify their own bigotry. We’ve shown again and again that social justice crusaders are notoriously short on… Read more »
Reziac
Guest

You’ve just illustrated why “cultural appropriation” is sheerest bullshit. If it weren’t, the SJW should be screaming about how S.American basketball is “appropriating” USAian culture. Geese, ganders…

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

ANOTHER Guardian hit-piece, this time from Adam Roberts:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2015/jul/31/the-puppies-are-taking-science-fictions-hugo-awards-back-in-time

“If they win, sci-fi loses.”

And they misspell Brad’s last name AGAIN. 😀

James May
Guest

SF hasn’t been hijacked by a “conspiracy” but by a consensus of dunces arriving to put out a fire that never took place using the eccentric method of racial incitement and imagining all of human civilization for the last 7 thousand years is sexually broken.

What I like about lard cans like Roberts is he makes up quotes out of his head about SP and then quotes other lard cans who’ve made stuff up out of their heads. The short version is The Guardian got screwed out of another $25.

Greg
Guest

And, like the New Yorker, don’t allow Commenting on their posts, apparently…

rocinante
Guest

Not surprising. SJWs (and the media) are dominated by thinking that Arnold Kling described as “folk Marxism”: http://www.ideasinactiontv.com/tcs_daily/2006/01/folk-beliefs-have-consequences.html

Most aren’t even aware of it, because it is the water in which they swim.

I, on the other hand, have no trouble admitting that I am a “folk Lockean”, but then (1) I’m aware that is my underlying belief system, and (2) I can marshal coherent arguments, with examples, in favor of my beliefs. I don’t simply think that they are a description of observable reality. SJWs seem to think their beliefs do.

Greg
Guest

I found the New Yorker article. I read the New Yorker article. I almost barfed all over my keyboard at the descritpiton of Delany’s most recent book. THAT is what they are putting forth as the “best and most avante garde” in science-fiction these days?

Seriously?

And the article doesn’t even question it…

BTW, anyone else notice that New Yorker doesn’t allow Commenting on it’s articles?

Bill S
Guest
Hansen
Guest
“If you doubt me, research “age of consent” “Twinks,” “ageism” and the writings of the NUMEROUS authors on the Left who believe that early sexuality is somehow “beneficial” for children. What sets gay culture apart from straight culture is the belief that early sex is good and beneficial, and the sure knowledge (don’t think for a second that they DON’T know) that the only way to produce another homosexual is to provide a boy with sexual experiences BEFORE he can be “ruined” by attraction to a girl. Naturally my perspective is very uncomfortable to the liberal people I was raised… Read more »
Hansen
Guest
“Delany notes in “Racism and Science Fiction,” that his racial identity would forever be in the minds of his white peers, no matter the occasion.” I’m not gonna speculate about if this is true or not, but it is very clear that Delany and other writers like him are very aware of their own racial identity and the racial identity of their white peers. The whole reason why so many fantasy and science fiction novels written these days deals with multiculturalism is because the writers are obsessed about race. http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/27/nk-jemisin-interview-fantasy-science-fiction-writing-racism-sexism GUardian: “Jemisin’s celebrated fantasy novels are about multicultural, complex worlds… Read more »
Hansen
Guest
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121554/2015-hugo-awards-and-history-science-fiction-culture-wars Seeing how media and writers are using a fan award as a tool for their own PC-agenda is sad. “The virtual absence of non-white writing in the field was paralleled by the near invisibility of women writers. For many decades, the most successful female writers had to cloak their identity with initials, ambiguous names, or pseudonyms (C.L. Moore, Leigh Brackett, James Tiptree, Jr.).” *** Maybe some of them assumed that they had to pretend to be guys to be popular. Just as J.K. Rowling did. And did the reveal that she was a female result in a decline in… Read more »
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[…] self appointed elites of the Sci fi world are hor­ri­fied that despite their efforts the greater mass of fan­dom that was always able, but never both­ered to vote for the Hugo awards […]

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