Monster Hunter Nation

Sad Puppies Update: The Nominees Announced and Why I Refused My Nomination

The Hugo nominees have been announced. As you’ve probably already heard Sad Puppies suggested candidates showed up everywhere. We got nominations for dozens of talented, deserving people who would normally have been ignored or shunned.

I just want to make a comment about why I’m personally not on the list. I was contacted by the administrators on 3/20/15 and informed that Monster Hunter Nemesis was a finalist for best novel. I emailed them back the same day and turned it down. Whoever was next in line was then moved up to be a finalist in my place.

I refused the nomination for one simple reason. The Sad Puppies campaign isn’t about any one person. I felt that ultimately my presence would be a distraction from the overall mission.

The reason I refused my nomination is that as long as the guy who started Sad Puppies stayed in, the more our opposition would try to dismiss the whole campaign as being all about my ego, or some selfish personal desire to get award recognition. Nope. I really meant it when I said I don’t care about winning anything for myself. I hope this proves that once and for all.

To the fans who voted for me, I’m sorry for dropping out. But I want you to understand that I consider making the award represent more of fandom to be a far more important prize than another rocket ship lapel pin (I actually never even got the one from last year). Now I’m going to support the rest of our slate and read all of the nominated works to judge them fairly, and I’d ask for you to do the same.

This is just one little battle in an ongoing culture war between artistic free expression and puritanical bullies who think they represent *real* fandom. In the long term I want writers to be free to write whatever they want without fear of social justice witch hunts, I want creators to not have to worry about silencing themselves to appease the perpetually outraged, and I want fans to enjoy themselves without having some entitled snob lecture them about how they are having fun wrong. I want our shrinking genre to grow. I think if we can get back to where “award nominated” isn’t a synonym for “preachy crap” to the most fans, we’ll do it.

That’s what I want. Strategically, we get there faster without them trying to spin it as all about me.

Again, Monster Hunter Nation, I apologize if this offends any of you who voted for my novel. I just feel this is the best thing we can do to combat Puppy Related Sadness.

Now, if you’ll excuse the brief post, today is actually a religious holiday for me, and I’d much rather be hanging out with my awesome family than surfing the internet to see what vile things they’re saying about me and my friends.

I wish the best of luck to all of the nominees.

A letter to the SMOFs, moderates, and fence sitters from the author who started Sad Puppies
Sad Puppies Update: The Melt Down Continues
Jon Bromfield
Guest

Truly a class act.

Thank you, sir. And we do understand. And appreciate.

Expendable Henchman
Guest

Happy Easter and well done!

Very artful move on turning down the nomination, too.

Andrew
Guest

I tip my hat to you, sir, for taking the high road and turning down the nomination. You talk the talk and walk the walk and there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m looking forward to reading Nemesis as I’m gradually catching up on your work.

Ed Powell
Guest

It’s too bad. Nemesis was really good. I understand your rationale, but there is no inconsistency in saying, “I want good works that have been historically overlooked because they are actually fun to read be nominated” and recognizing that your work is in that category too.

Steve Poling
Guest

ok, you made your point. now let us nominate you next year, ok?

Wes S.
Guest

Enjoy the holiday, Larry. I’m taking my parents out for Easter dinner later tonight, and just surfing the ‘Net in the meantime. And trying (somewhat unsuccessfully, alas) to stay away from anything angry or political, in keeping with the spirit of the season.

That said: Over at Tor.com right now, they’re in a state of shock.

Douglas B. Killings
Guest

Well, they got three books into the Best Novel catagory (Ancillary Sword, Dark Between the Stars, and Goblin Emperor). Ok, one of those was not the book they wanted, but still. They SHOULD have nothing to complain about (but you know they will).

And I’m sorry, Tor-ies, but Kevin J. Anderson has deserved one for years. Now to get Alan Dean Foster a nomination….

Douglas B. Killings
Guest

Sorry, Tor got in two. For some reason I thought Ancillary Sword was Tor, not Orbit.

Jack Dandy
Guest

Unrelated dude here. What you’re doing is a really selfless and just plain neat.

What are your books about?

Brooks Richards
Guest

Larrys books are about characters you like and care about kicking the ever loving crap out of something then shooting it in the face. But in a funny way.

Jungshin
Guest
Monsters are real, cowboy up kill them, get paid. And 1940’s film noir magic superheroes save the world from Nipponese invasion on giant dirigibles. And secret government anti terror hunt em down and kill em stories. And soul searching honor bound ” I will do what is RIGHT, no matter what” fantasy ( not out but you can read the earc). Pure awesome is what they are about. I have been lurking since before SP1, gafiated YEARS ago and really I just want to say thank you to you, Larry and Brad for what you are doing. SF is supposed… Read more »
flyergrad
Guest

Plus, Mr Correia’s book Monster Hunter International has THE BEST opening lines EVER!

Expendable Henchman
Guest

I second the nomination.

Mars
Guest

I am both impressed and unsurprised. And fuck you spell check its a word cause of how I said it and all.

Michael Maier
Guest

Larry, I wish you’d stayed in. And not for any statement, but simply because NEMESIS is an amazing book. I do not say that lightly. I do not even LIKE Franks (as a “person”, he’s a strongly-effective character). He’s a right bastard, I think the Brit phrase goes.

Expendable Henchman
Guest

Remember, Franks sees all humanity and knows that the vast majority of humanity are going to heaven after they die. And Franks goes back to eternal torment.

Meanwhile, if the MCB fails, heaven won’t exist any more because Cthulu and company will destroy God, angels and heaven.

So kill them, and they go to bliss, or let the idiot humans live and blab, and the universe is destroyed. Pretty easy choice for Franks to make, and I agree with it.

Remember, Franks doesn’t have an iota of faith. He KNOWS.

Jared Anjewierden
Guest

If we’re really lucky we’ll get some TOS style logic bombs from the more rabid Larry haters.

I’m actually sad 3-Body Problem didn’t get in. I didn’t nominate it (because I haven’t read it yet) but what I’m hearing about it is all amazingly good.

Ancillary Sword… maybe she got better with her second novel.

Goblin Emperor… don’t know much about it beyond the fact that my library system has only 5 copies.

(Solid average is 10-12 for the 18 branches)

Len
Guest

You won’t be disappointed with 3-Body Problem … Cixin Liu approaches a situation which is often written about *badly* (I won’t spoil it for anybody here by revealing it) from a very different direction, at least partially because of his world view.

Now we have to get the author to write a story in the MHI universe, it would be a *great* read 🙂

Steve Gaalema
Guest

The 3-Body Problem has been nominated for the Prometheus Award. You can vote for it by becoming a member of the Libertarian Futurist Society:
http://www.lfs.org/

Linoge
Guest

Well played, Larry, well, played.

And I mean that in the best possible way.

Nick Gardner
Guest

We’re going to force you to accept the nomination next year. selfish jerk mumble mumble

And for anyone who wants to vote for the Hugos, here’s where you get the supporting membership:
https://sasquan.swoc.us/sasquan/reg.php

Astro
Guest

Thanks. I just bookmarked the link in my ‘Health’ folders, ’cause that’s where it belongs and that’s where I’ll find it.

Mrs. John C. Wright
Guest

I agree with the first commenter:

Truly classy.

Joshua M. Young
Guest

Well played, sir. I’m proud of you.

Brian Niemeier
Guest

Larry may not be getting a Hugo this year, but he’s got more George Washington Awards coming from me.

Douglas B. Killings
Guest

Thank you, sir. And I for one understand. But don’t expect us to not keep voting for you!

Dave W.
Guest

I’m a little bit bummed because I believe you truly deserve an award for Nemesis. I get it, though. It’s a brilliant tactical move to undermine the SJWs’ ridiculous arguments.

I hope things will improve to the point you can accept the next nomination. And yes, definitely good luck to all the other nominees! Happy Easter!

Ken Prescott
Guest

Larry, you are a class act.

SAD PUPPIES AKHBAR!

Keith Glass
Guest

Not surprised, and even more impressed. . And the Narrative has already started: “the Hugos are broken”. . .

Jack Blount
Guest

I support your actions in this, and I will continue to vote with my wallet (Take my money!). Before I do any voting I will try to read all of the books that I can.

Mike Grasso
Guest

Larry, I know that recognition like this is important to a writer. All I can say is that I enjoy the body of your work. I devour it within hours / days of publishing. I will continue to do so because of the quality, storylines, imagination and talent. Thank You again from ViCAT MHI. Mg

Shawna
Guest

Totally understandable. I think that was a smart move, considering some of the accusations of ‘ballot stuffing’ certain people have been throwing around.

Kinda bummed that only a handful of the ones I nominated got on the ballot (and most of those were movies/TV) but I look forward to reading the various nominees and voting on them.

I haven’t done this before, so maybe someone can enlighten me. I didn’t get an e-mail about the nominations. Were we supposed to? Also, are we supposed to get copies of the various nominated things for voting? When is that supposed to happen?

Suburbanbanshee
Guest

1. Historically, the nominations are just announced. There will certainly be a list on your final ballot, and I think there’s usually a list with your voter packet of copies of works.

2. The Hugo Voter Packet will be coming out “as soon as it is available,” according to the Hugo Awards website.

Shadowdancer
Guest

*salute* Thanks for being an upstanding human being, Larry.

Well, it’s down to Kevin J. and Jim Butcher for Best Novel for me; but I am CRYING at the slate for Dramatic Presentation Long Form. I ENJOYED ALL OF THOSE SO VERY, VERY MUCH. HOW COULD I POSSIBLY CHOOSE?!

Happy Easter, Larry, everyone.

Brian
Guest

Those I have already read but we will need to wait for our copies of the other books and read them to see if one of them deserves the award but I doubt they can beat “Parkour!”

Shadowdancer
Guest

Reason why Kevin and Jim’s stuff sits above the others is because I’ve read Skin Game and while I’ve not read this book by Kevin J I have enjoyed his other works previously. I will give the others a fair go to the best of my ability / time before casting my vote though.

I have talked about the ones I don’t think I could honestly vote on though, on my blog. (I don’t listen to podcasts/net radio for example.)

Richard McEnroe
Guest

Captain America: The Winter Soldier was the better movie but Guardians of the Galaxy had rocketships. Decisions, decisions…

Synova
Guest

I loved them both but… Guardians grabbed me. Gotta love Captain America and the movie was solid. It was great. Absolutely.

Guardians, however, was SPLENDID. It was JOYFUL. It stands out in a way that the others don’t… sort of like Princess Bride. I think it’s just going to get better over time until we can all quote Rocket without half thinking about it.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

Talking raccoon or Scarlet Johansson. Choose wisely.

Synova
Guest

I rather like Scarlet Johansson but it’s more a choice between the two Chrises…

Pratt or Evans…. Hmmmm….

Emily Nelson
Guest

How can you forget Groot? Robert Redford made an awesome villain in Winter Soldier.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

Other plus for Captain America. Can’t hate a movie where Robert Redford gets shot between the eyes.

Shadowdancer
Guest

I just watched Interstellar last night, and it was like watching a movie in the grand tradition of classic sci-fi, but with more hope and grittiness than I expected. It was also so human-positive, it made me really happy.

I’m totally torn between, the Cap, Guardians, Interstellar and Edge, in no particular order. All of them were very good and I will have great difficulty in deciding.

Jared Anjewierden
Guest

I nominated Big Hero 6. *Shrug*

Of the ballot I’d say either Guardians or Interstellar, though they are all good.

keranih
Guest

Was ‘Snowpiercer’ not eligible? I am really surprised that it didn’t make the short list.

Mike Glyer
Guest

I respect the sacrifice, I can say that.

John C Wright
Guest

Dear Mr Glyer, you and I have differed in the past, and for my contumely toward you, I apologize. You have a courtesy and common honesty which is to be admired wherever found. Thank you.

Alan
Guest

I completely understand why you are doing this and want to thank you for making such a bold decision.

You have, essentially, cockblocked all the trolls, and I can’t help but love you for it.

Chris Johnson
Guest

You are a gentleman and a scholar and a good judge of bad whiskey.
Have a Blessed Easter.

T.L. Knighton
Guest
Larry, I loved Monster Hunter Nemesis. I agree, it’s one of the best things you’ve written, if not the best. I really, really loved it. All that said, I think doing what you did, and when you did, was a smart move. You declined before a lot of the “This is all about Larry getting a Hugo” stuff blew up, which means they can’t reasonably justify taking credit for that. Well played, sir. Well played. In the meantime, a lot of really good writers are nominated. I really enjoy Butcher’s work, and loved Lines of Departure. The fact that John… Read more »
Ken
Guest

So, you’ll not object to Son of the Black Sword getting nominated next year, right? Or shall you forever be at the forefront, taking the hits for the rest of the Sad Puppies slate?

I’ve got to say that I’m greatly impressed – not that my approval (or that of any mortal man) was what you sought. Hell, awards or no, keep writing and I’ll keep buying.

James May
Guest
Kevin Standlee wants the “‘The TAR Babies'” Awards. (They Also Ran). Yes, he actually wrote that. “They’re Also Racists” sounds better. I’m surprised he didn’t propose the Sambo Awards. What an idiot. So just have an Alt-Hugo Awards but disemvowel it cuz SJWs are clever like dat. They’re thinking of holding a separate ceremony. I just had one right now. And the winner Issssssssssssssssss!!!! Monster Hunter Nemesis!!! (Jazz hands, jazz hands, jazz hands, etc.) Anyway, here’s the translation of the results if SJWs can understand this simple thought: Leave us in peace and we’ll do the same for you. Keep… Read more »
DaveP.
Guest

Um… he DOES understand where the phrase “Tar Baby” came from, right?
Oy, my head.

Kevin Standlee
Guest

DaveP: Yes of course I do. I never for a moment thought anyone would take it seriously. Sheesh.

DaveP.
Guest

Nice to know you’re just tasteless, not ignorant

Brad R. Torgersen
Guest

Larry, you are The Man! It’s been an honor and a pleasure to be part of this project with you!

ratseal
Guest
Brad, thank you for organizing this – well done. However, why do you still post at MakingSlight? No one there is going to listen politely – I expect that ‘Cat’ is “Cat Rambo’ the current vice pres. of SFWA, no? The narrative on the reason that SP3 won is being shaped to be that ‘GG’ came to vote’ and ‘they are the wrong kind of fans’. The next move would appear to be addressing that ML posters to change the rules for 2017. I expect that the keepers to the key for the in-crowd, led by the SFWA, will organize… Read more »
Dr. Mauser
Guest

“GamerGate came to vote” is a rallying cry that only appeals to the SJW’s who have already shown themselves to be outnumbered this year. The typical SP voter probably sees nothing wrong with it, because they rightly don’t believe the hype from anti-GG SJW’s.

Jared Anjewierden
Guest

And from what I’ve seen… they didn’t. Not in any significant numbers though.

Given all the stuff they’re saying about GG though that could well change for the final ballot.

Brad R. Torgersen
Guest

I tend to agree that Making Slight is more or less a bottomless hole into which I have occasionally cast my nickels during this whole brouhaha. Nevertheless, even when they’re jerks, they can’t combat a reasonable argument. While they pound their plastic forks and knives on their high chair trays, screaming and spitting, I can still be an adult. Maturity wins. Today, the opponents of SP3 staged one of the most epic toddler meltdowns in genre history. And convinced precisely nobody that they care about the field; they just care about having their way.

shaun wilso
Guest

It is rare and I feel awesome that an author can stick to his guns and do something truly selfless to prove his point, and show who the bigger man is. So Mister Correia to you I say Semper Fidelius.

George Pratt
Guest

I am sorry you dropped out because I was looking forward to voting for Nemesis.

Nick Gardner
Guest

I’ve got a solution guys. Next year Kate doesn’t put Larry on the slate. If Vox can get enough votes without being on the slate, I’m pretty sure Larry can.

Douglas B. Killings
Guest

“Damien Walter ‏@damiengwalter 2m2 minutes ago
There’s a lot to be said about these #hugoawards and I’ll be laying out my in depth analysis next week for The Guardian.”

I sense another Correia frisking on the horizon.

av willis
Guest

Ppph, Walter wishes it was a fisking, he’ll have to settle for a fisking 🙂

James May
Guest

Didn’t he lose the keys to his brain?

Douglas B. Killings
Guest

damn spellcheck.

PavePusher
Guest

Oooooooooooo….!!!!! Shiney!

Synova
Guest

Honest… I thought you meant it to be frisking. I mean… frisking ought to lead to fisking… right? Cuz someone gets frisky…

Richard McEnroe
Guest

And we thought English comedy died with Benny Hill.

deadcenter
Guest

By “in depth” he means with the philosophical depth of a pancake.

SBP
Guest

Ah, but what are all the “Larry Correia is desperate, DESPERATE to win a Hugo” trolls going to do now?

Well-played, sir.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

They’ll keep repeating their ignorant misinformation. A few might correct their views, but not many I think.

John Van Stry
Guest

Happy Easter.

You are definitely a man of his convictions, I applaud your doing this, I’m sure it was not easy.

The world needs more people like you Larry. No matter how the SJW’s and their ilk may try to spin this, you have shown true class and will be remembered for it. And hopefully, maybe some will see the light and turn away from their hateful ways.

Which I’m sure for you, would be the best award for this Easter.

trackback

[…] Correia’s Monster Hunter: Nemesis was nominated but he refused the nomination. Read more about it on his blog. While I am disappointed, I understand and accept the reasons behind the refusal. He made my […]

Suburbanbanshee
Guest

1. Sad Puppies are happy today!

2. It used to be more common to refuse nomination for various good reasons. This was a good reason, although it’s sad that things have gotten to such a pass that a sacrifice like this is a good plan.

3. It looks like it really is a honor just to be nominated, in a diverse competitive awards race like this one. Congratulations to all the honored nominees out there!

James May
Guest

It wasn’t diverse. Shitty neighborhood.

“The Book Smugglers @booksmugglers · 47m 47 minutes ago We have a ballot full of white males EVERYWHERE. We went back a few years now.”

Satori
Guest

Of course we did! Back towards the time when the Hugos meant something. One can only hope we keep moving in that direction.

Alex
Guest

Vox and Larry get nominated, they bitch. Vox and Larry don’t get nominated, they bitch. Yawn.

James May
Guest

I’m beginning to suspect they might have a thing about white males.

Suburbanbanshee
Guest

You know, I’ve never said this to you, and I read your posts all the time in various places.

I toast you, sir. Rarely in the history of fandom has anyone spent so much time looking at such annoying stuff, just to disinfect it with some sunlight. You are a man of fortitude and a fan of determination.

Enjoy today’s breath of fresh air, because you helped open those windows.

ftumch
Guest

“You know, I’ve never said this to you, and I read your posts all the time in various places.
“I toast you, sir.”

Me too.

Hadn’t hardly read any SFF for 25 years. Now I own 6 Larry Correia books. I blame you May, you bastard.

James May
Guest
Glad to have the company and for Larry to act as a central clearing house from which to stage a counter-attack. None of us like to be targeted by these bullies just for waking up in the morning. LC has emboldened the quiet and voiceless to come forward and join the fun and provided a platform from which to do do, and a lot more besides. That has proven infectious. People don’t like bullies and more and more outsiders are convinced by our simple truths, our willingness to do homework and use actual quotes. I just want to be left… Read more »
John C Wright
Guest

“You know, I’ve never said this to you, and I read your posts all the time in various places.
“I toast you, sir.”

Me too. You have a stomach of cast iron, Mr May

Brian Niemeier
Guest

Lord, grant Mr. May life and strength, and let not his enemies prevail against him.

Suburbanbanshee
Guest

Well, _this_ year it is pretty darned diverse. I look at the nominees and say, “Wow, what a lot of great choices! How different these stories are from each other! What a lot of amazingly different sf personalities and writers and artists and podcasters!”

Of course, the PC meaning of diverse is the exact opposite, I know…

James May
Guest

ATTENTION: Book Smugglers:

“All hate groups have beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics.” – Southern Poverty Law Center.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

Except for those white males who are, you know, women or Asian or whatever the hell DNA cocktail Larry is…

Douglas B. Killings
Guest

> 2. It used to be more common to refuse nomination for various good reasons.

The most common good reason was because the nominee had already won previously and wanted to give others a chance. I don’t think anyone has refused for fan politics reasons before.

Elizabeth
Guest

The fact that you put the cause ahead of your own successes is exactly why you get the support you have. As united as the Hugo people claim to be, they are clearly all top ready to stomp on each other to get their prize.

Way to be Larry! And enjoy Conference weekend 🙂

Tiago Becerra Paolini
Guest
Tiago Becerra Paolini
At first I was a bit disappointed to hear that you turned down the nomination, but at the end I understood your decision and I can also say that you convinced me that it was the best course of action. It is very easy to get “prestigious” awards and titles, one just needs to dance according to the music. But it takes real courage and and virtuousness to turn down all of this in name of the greater good. Classy. I also would like to take the opportunity to say that you were the one who last year made I… Read more »
Austin
Guest

I’m going to echo the other comments of being sorry not to see you on the ballot while at the same time understanding why you did it. Twas a noble sacrifice for the good of puppies everywhere. Wendell would be proud.

S1AL
Guest

Damn shame. Of everything I’ve read by you, Nemesis is at the top of my list for literary merit.

Karen Miller
Guest

A principled stand, Larry. Thank you.

Robert Allaband
Guest

Is there enough hazmat crews in the world to cover all the hazmat sites from all the SJW’s heads exploding?

SBP
Guest

I see that the same editor who enjoys marching in Stalinist parades is having a hissy because some GamerGaters might allegedly have been involved.

‘Cause the GGers are obviously WAY worse than the folks who murdered a hundred million people. Somehow. In his head.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Empress Teresa is saying the GGs were brought in by Torgersen “to wreck” the Hugos, but the GGs only became aware of this en masse the past week, as far as I know.

SBP
Guest

As VD noted on Twitter, if GG had really been involved in a significant way, there would have been 20,000 votes, not 1,800.

Once again we see their grossly inflated sense of self-importance at work.

Maybe they should just embrace the butthurt and stop escalating at this point?

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

No. Sarkeesian was ranting that GG had no place anywhere, including SF. They will ride this one all the way to the ground, like Slim Pickens on his A-Bomb.

Nathan
Guest

Wu, actually. She was slinging her husband’s four Hugos around like it conferred her status. It wouldn’t surprise me if we did get some GG votes because of that.

Dave W.
Guest

Hah! It’s on her own head, then! 😀

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

If GG wasn’t on our side before, they certainly are now.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

” She was slinging her husband’s four Hugos around like it conferred her status. ”

Oh, God, a “hollywood wife.” I SO had my fill of them back when I worked security in Bel Air.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

CORRECTION: It was “Megpie71” made the above statement, not TNH.

trackback

[…] noreply@blogger.com (Vox) Larry Correia was nominated in Best Novel for NEMESIS, but elected to decline the nomination:The Hugo nominees have been announced. As you’ve probably already heard Sad Puppies suggested […]

MC
Guest

So impressed. Grace is something seriously lacking in this SJW train wreck. And given the day and the seriousness of this weekend for much larger reasons even more so. When we meet I will have a box of 45-70 for you.

Kevin Standlee
Guest

James May: I suggested something that didn’t include “Hugo Award” in its name for people who wanted to do something regarding the top-fifteen “They Also Ran” nominees. That’s for legal (service mark) reasons: WSFS objects to anyone using its registered service mark to promote awards that aren’t The Hugo Award®.

James May
Guest

I understand. SJWs have trademarked racist comments, like “white privilege” and “white savior.”

Nathan
Guest

Why? Doesn’t that diminish the noms and the award winner? I fail to see how a “they were considered, but…” does anything, especially since Hugo wins and noms appear to not have any effect on sales.

Kevin Standlee
Guest
Nathan: There’s nothing stopping people from setting up any sort of award they want with any criteria of any sort they desire. But they cannot use the intellectual property of someone else to do so. (Analogy: you can invent and promote a cola soft drink. You cannot call it “Coca-Cola.” You can’t even call it “Not Really Coca-Cola.” Someone owns the trademark, and it’s not you. I’ve always said, many times, that anyone who thinks the Hugo Awards are broken beyond any redemption whatsoever should actually set up Real Award run the way they think Real Awards should be run.… Read more »
Nathan
Guest

To be honest, I might have misread what you were saying. I read it as making a Consideration (TM) label based off of the top fifteen vote getters in the nomination process.

Brian Hurrel
Guest

I won The Mighty Samson Award for Conspicuous Wordsmithery five years in a row!

James May
Guest
Mr. Standlee, I apologize for calling you an idiot – really I do. I get carried away sometimes with anyone at R’lyeh’s House of Bats. I get the sense you’re not really part of this whole racial defamation culture. If you have any contacts at WorldCon who are scratching their heads and saying what can we do about this, I can’t speak for anyone but myself. A mission statement might help. What I want is only one thing: for SJWs to knock off the racial incitement. Just… knock it off. I mean… look what it’s gotten you. Is it really… Read more »
Kevin Standlee
Guest
James May: I apologize for calling you an idiot – really I do. Thank you. What I think people misunderstand when they see me riled up is that I’m not on the Sad Puppies “side,” or the so-called SJW’s “side” or anyone’s “side.” I’m on the Hugo Awards’ side. I’ve invested many years of my life as a volunteer for WSFS, have administered the Hugo Awards three times, chaired a World Science Fiction Convention, and am current Chairman of the only permanent body of the World Science Fiction Society. (Individual Worldcons aren’t permanent; each year’s convention is a one-time-only event.)… Read more »
Dave W.
Guest

Fair enough. Have you seen the posts Larry’s made here previously where he said, after looking at it, that he thought the Hugo voting was 100% honest?

Kevin Standlee
Guest
Have you seen the posts Larry’s made here previously where he said, after looking at it, that he thought the Hugo voting was 100% honest? Yes, I have, and I appreciate it. I also am one of the people who have said that nothing done this year was illegal. However, I have a big problem with people who are convinced that there have been publishing companies, political activists, or Secret Masters of Fandom putting together solid slates of five candidates per category with an avowed intention of completely dominating a category. Anyone who thinks that has been routinely happening is… Read more »
Dave W.
Guest

Like I said, fair enough. Larry used to be an auditor, he says everything is above-board, that’s good enough for me.

You might want to pay a visit to Making Light with your message. They’re losing their minds over there right now, threatening to start a No Award campaign.

Kevin Standlee
Guest
You might want to pay a visit to Making Light with your message. I am a participant in some of the discussions there, where I have drawn the ire of some for my excessively pedantic and dry tone. But I’ll freely admit that I’m more attuned to the Nielsen Haydens (even when we disagree) because they have been working on Worldcons even longer than I have been. Both of them have spoken on matters before the WSFS Business Meeting have have in my opinion been constructive members of the Worldcon community. That doesn’t mean I agree with every word written… Read more »
Synova
Guest

When someone has said “this sort of thing happens all along” I’ve always interpreted that as… people have advocated for some books and authors in an informal way behind the scenes. Because that type of statement is usually followed by a “but” we’ve just done it out in the open.

And I think it would be sort of difficult to claim that there isn’t genteel campaigning as a normal sort of thing.

Craig
Guest

I admit I’d also prefer having a number of suggestions different than the number of nominations that can be made, but I’d prefer more and not less; I’d rather be pointed to 10 good stories than three.

Kevin Standlee
Guest

I would be delighted if y’all would accumulate long lists of works that you think are award-worthy. NESFA and BASFA do this. Each recommendation has the names of those people who recommended them. If you put such a recommendation site in a static location (i.e. one that does not change from year to year), it probably would be added to the Third Party Recommendation Sites that TheHugoAwards.org compiles.

Such long lists are much different from curated lists that are limited to not more than the number of possible positions on the final ballot.

Synova
Guest

I like the idea of a longer list but not a list too long to be reasonably read.

Two lists maybe… one really long list of eligible work as part of accumulating suggestions of books people particularly like and a chance to point out something that might have been overlooked… but if the idea is that people should actually read them all instead of skim for name recognition, then a final “short list” is better than a super long list.

Jared Anjewierden
Guest

I have never had the fortune to attend a workd con, but I have had to deal with the people running it a bit (some problems with my pin, nothing major) and I will unreservedly say they were curteous, professional, and prompt.

My wish with all of this is a strengthened World Con, Hugos, and more fans from all over attending and supporting.

James May
Guest

The fraud part has never been an issue with me. I have no sense of that one way or the other. Here’s what I do sense:

When I read the Hugo Winners Vol. 1-4 I loved the entire thing and saw a dedication to artistry to the exclusion of all else. They encompassed why I read SFF. I wish to return to that.

S1AL
Guest

Kevin, a question: given the instances where 3-4 purple have received nearly identical numbers of votes in separate categories in the same year, and that those people happen to have the same influential connections and support each other… Do you really think that a functional (if not conspiratorial) whisper campaign is out of the question? I mean, it’s certainly possible that there wasn’t even any coordination necessary, and it’s just the organic result of insular cliques in fandom, but those numbers strike me as very suspicious.

Kevin Standlee
Guest
…given the instances where 3-4 purple have received nearly identical numbers of votes in separate categories in the same year, and that those people happen to have the same influential connections and support each other… Do you really think that a functional (if not conspiratorial) whisper campaign is out of the question? Knowing many of the individuals personally, the answer is, “Yes, I rule out conspiracies.” I mean, it’s certainly possible that there wasn’t even any coordination necessary, and it’s just the organic result of insular cliques in fandom, but those numbers strike me as very suspicious. I don’t believe… Read more »
S1AL
Guest

Kevin Standlee – Please reply to the questions as stated, not as you would like them to be stated. I asked about a campaign, not a conspiracy.

Kevin Standlee
Guest
You’re moving the goalposts. Claims that, say, two works got 40 and 41 nominations in the same category are trotted out as “proof” of Secret Marching Orders. I cited my own case that disproves this isn’t mathematically possible. I’m not the only one who nominated the Stross and not the Scalzi. (I can cite another person if you want.) So lay off on sifting through numbers until you find a few cases where there happened to be almost the same count between multiple categories. Correlation isn’t necessarily causation, and while I would expect there to be overlap between the 41… Read more »
S1AL
Guest

See as I quite specifically asked about a *functional* whisper campaign (and *excluded* conspiracies), I don’t see how it’s difficult to just answer the question.

But, you enjoy torching that strawman right to the ground.

Kevin Standlee
Guest

You’re asking for a negative proof of something that’s not falsifiable. All I can tell you is that I administered three Hugo Award elections, and did not see a pattern of bloc voting. But of course you think I’m lying. It’s very easy to prove conspiracy theories when any evidence to the contrary is part of the conspiracy.

Nathan
Guest

Less lying, but more “trust but verify.” A little heavier on the verify part, admittedly, but you are appealing to your own authority without accompanying evidence.

S1AL
Guest
Kevin Standlee – My question: “Do you really think that a functional (if not conspiratorial) whisper campaign is out of the question?” Your Response: “Knowing many of the individuals personally, the answer is, ‘Yes, I rule out conspiracies.'” I think it’s rather obvious that you are VERY SPECIFICALLY *not* answering the question I asked. In fact, you repeatedly used the word conspiracies in your response: 3 times. THEN you accused me of moving the goalposts, when I quite clearly did not, as my question never changed. You simply chose to respond to an entirely different question that I DID NOT… Read more »
Kevin Standlee
Guest

Do you really think that a functional (if not conspiratorial) whisper campaign is out of the question?

Yes, I do think that any sort of “whisper campaign” is out of the question.

Is that a clear enough answer?

S1AL
Guest

Yes, that’s all I wanted.

As a follow-up: what, then, is the explanation for the incredibly close voting patterns in several nomination categories over the years? Do you think it’s purely organic?

Kevin Standlee
Guest
Yes, I do think so. Sift enough numbers — and boy, do we have a lot of numbers! — and you’ll be able to find some correlations if you look hard enough. Just to pick one at random, I went back to the 2005 Hugo Awards and looked at Best Novel, in which we find that Iron Sunrise (Charlie Stross, Ace) got 55 votes and Going Postal (Terry Pratchett, HarperCollins) got 54. Surely you don’t think there was some sort of collusion to make that happen, do you? (Pratchett declined nomination, incidentally, so anyone who claims that the Awards were… Read more »
S1AL
Guest

So instead of a whisper campaign, we’re back to… the original assertion that the Hugos were being decided by one specific clique of individuals who managed to nominate works by a few specific individuals/works who met the right criteria? And, oddly, managed to ignore some of the best and most popular works of the last 20 years?

Huh. Weird.

John C Wright
Guest
Mr Standlee, Please believe that I have made no statement, public or private, casting any doubt on the integrity of the process; nor do I hold any unspoken doubts in reserve. Indeed, were it not for my utter faith in the honesty of the process, I would not have asked my fans to vote for the Sad Puppies suggestions. I appreciate and admire your honesty. If anyone tells you that I have said otherwise, ask them to quote me word for word, and you will see that he cannot. Sad Puppies is about breaking out of an ideological feedback loop,… Read more »
Richard McEnroe
Guest
So what are the changes we can expect to find because we wanted to select our own nominees, Kevin? Will the WorldCon have our ‘betters” graciously offer us a prix fixe selection from which we will be kindly permitted to pay our $40 to choose? They certainly talk as though they want to, and looking at the ballots for the past few years, they have seem to have been doing so. Look at what happened this year, Kevin. A WHOLE bunch more people than have shown up for recent ballots this time, and paid their good money to YOUR convention,… Read more »
Kevin Standlee
Guest

My WordPress profile photo was taken in 2002, when I was co-chairman of the Worldcon in San Jose (and one of the Hugo Award administrators — incidentally, the lead admins that year were the same people who ran it this year), with me holding a 2002 Hugo Award trophy. I was born in August 1965.

Jason Robey
Guest

Bravo Larry, bravo!!

flyergrad
Guest

1. Happy Easter!
2. Congrats on the nomination for MH Nemesis. Even though you turned it down, it still is a winner in my not-so-humble opinion.
3. Thanks for the whole Sad Puppies program. Reading about the SJW’s meltdowns gives me something to enjoy while waiting for your next MHI book.
4. We both need to thank Audible. Without them I never would have found the Monster Hunter Nation.

RightWingProf
Guest

Bold move, sir. Well played. It looks like the SPs are taking the motto “When punched, punch back twice as hard” to heart. Along with the usual Easter festivities, I’m looking forward to the splodey-ness over the next couple of days. What’s the over and under on the time until Damien rears his head?

Enjoy this most holy of days tomorrow. As far as I’ve heard, they haven’t found the body yet, so Easter is still on.

sean
Guest

Hell Larry, I respect ya for it. Still though, Nemesis deserves to be there on it’s own merits and the whole series simply for the opening sentences of MHI itself. Still my FAVORITE book opening EVER! LOL. As I keep telling people, how can you NOT love a book that starts off that way?

Brian
Guest

I agree, it is the number 1 line I use to peak peoples interest in MHI

pseudotsuga
Guest

Is that fireworks I hear, or crazy Lefty heads exploding all over the place at this “travesty”?

James May
Guest
“#29 ::: janetl ::: (view all by) ::: April 04, 2015, 04:27 PM: Vox Day has stated that many problems of the modern day are due to democracies ‘giving women the vote’, and that people of African ancestry are savages incapable of modern civilization. While stooping to GamerGate is very low, associating with Vox Day — a person who thinks that more than half of the human race is incapable of rational thought on his plane of being — that’s pretty low, too.” That’s pretty typical of the lack of self-awareness of SJWs. Their award nominees routinely talk about half… Read more »
Synova
Guest
Look really… setting something up to try to encourage more POC to attend cons (because lets be really honest here… fen are frighteningly weird) is the *right* way to do it. Saying, we understand that some people might not feel welcome because fen are frighteningly weird but we really would like more people to take that first step through the doors and so we’re going to issue actual invitations” is the right way to do it. The wrong way is all these various… “you can come to the convention and stay apart from everyone else,” idiocies. Or the “lets vote… Read more »
quilly
Guest

I completely understand your decision but it does bum me out as I think Nemesis is your best work to date. But they -would – have made it about you. We’ll played and we’ll done!

trackback

[…] Three out of Five for Best Novel (there’s a possibility it could have been 4 out of 5, we won’t know until the full numbers are released after WorldCon, because Larry declined his own nomination) […]

De Anna Manning
Guest

A class act and true gentleman!

Eamon J. Cole
Guest

Frustrating that it’s likely necessary, but…

Class move, sir.

Guess
Guest

damn… was hoping to get all 6 monster hunter books in the voter packet since BAEN put your entire trilogy in there last year. 🙁

Hopefully Jim Butcher continues the trend and gives us his whole series… I doubt it, but it makes the $40 a really good deal.

Achillea
Guest

Speaking of voter packets, anybody have any word when they’re coming out? I’ve got serious reading to do (JCW owns the novella category, and his works can’t just be breezed through …)

Guess
Guest

I think its atleast a month and sometimes stuff trickles out.

Kevin Standlee
Guest

It takes time, usually weeks, to assemble the packet, due to the necessity of contacting rights-holders and getting permission to include the nominated works. It’s also pretty typical for the package to evolve after originally being announced, as rights-holders who initially didn’t reply or said “no” decide to add their works to the package.

Achillea
Guest

Excellent. Thank you.

Douglas B. Killings
Guest

I hear Memorial Day weekend is the target date, but it will depend in large part on the publishers. Last years got delayed somewhat because Orbit took their time giving them an answer on Neptunes Children and Ancillary Justice (and ultimately deciding to only include “extended excerpts” but not the whole novels).

Nathan
Guest

I’m not expecting the full copy of Ancillary Sword in mine this year. Which is a shame, since I can’t find it in the stores.

Achillea
Guest

The same ‘extended excerpt’ thing seemed to apply to Parasite last year, too. It’s why I No-Voted all three of them (though Neptune’s Children was also so wretchedly bad I didn’t even make it through the excerpt).

James Conason
Guest

And just gotta love one article I just read complaining about how the Hugo awards this year are horrible because so many of the Sad Puppies, AKA Rabid Puppies according to some of the people in the comments, got works nominated. Wanted to bring up the fact of your pass on the nomination, but could not bring myself to post there.

http://io9.com/the-hugo-awards-were-always-political-now-theyre-only-1695721604?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_twitter&utm_source=io9_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Dave W.
Guest

io9? Gawker butthurt is some of the best butthurt. 😀

Nathan
Guest

That’s “Bring Back Bullying,” “Let’s Not Pay Our Interns,” and “Let’s Trick Coke into Quoting Mein Kampf” Gawker. But we’re the bad guys…

Wes S.
Guest

And then there was that horrible Michelle Malkin bikini photoshop they tried to pass off some years back as “proof” that Malkin was a “hypocrite,” and only succeeded in proving that Gawker is full of shite.

What’s really sweet is that all the little Gawkerbots at io9 – you did read the comments? – think they’re the victims…

James May
Guest

“Last August, the Hugo Awards were swept by a younger group of women and people of color” write the clueless morons who write posts titled “When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like ‘Avatar'”?

Problem, meet problem.

Plus – fuck off.

SBP
Guest

“Younger group of women and people of color”

Leckie is 49 years old and is so white she’d damned near transparent.

James May
Guest

Mentally I’d guess Leckie, Hurley and Samatar add up to 49.

Unless you believe we are a “white supremacy” where I want to drag them “to death behind the back of a truck” and punch them in the face “at random moments…”

In that case they are as wise in years as Tarzan’s Great Apes.

SBP
Guest

Kowal is 46 years old and likely gets a sunburn if she stands in front of the refrigerator too long.

Stross is 50 years old and is neither a woman nor a “person of color” (unless “pasty white” counts as a color).

Datlow is 66, and equally white.

Yeah, looks like a “sweep”, all right.

James May
Guest

I forgot Kowal. 49 plus 0 equals 49.

Steve
Guest

This is Charlie Jane Anders:

comment image?w=898

No, seriously. It’s not Andy Dick in a wig.

James May
Guest

What would SJWs say if we went around writing posts titled “When Will Transgender Stop Writing Defamatory Posts About White Men”?

SJW anti-bigots are completely brainless people. Maybe they don’t get prefixes.

Dave W.
Guest

Gah! Dude, I needed a trigger warning before that!

:-p

Synova
Guest

Io9 was fun for a while until I began to see a basic, ever repeating, pattern. The future sucks.

Yes… we come from the future… and the lights are out.

John Stockley
Guest

I felt that ultimately my presence would be a distraction from the overall mission.

My butt! Larry just wanted me to pay for my copy of MHI: Nemesis. Instead of getting it for free with the rest of nominated works, like last year.

Fine. I’ve bought it now. But I saw through your plan, Larry. I wanted you to know that.

Holly Stockley
Guest

Whilst I can now just snipe it from my husband, when he finishes it.

Synova
Guest

LOL!

(It wouldn’t let me just post LOL, so now my comment is longer.)

Arlan Andrews
Guest
Larry, Many thanks to you and Brad for this exposure and this opportunity. I haven’t decided to come to WorldCon yet; I keep recalling the Hugo ceremonies in San Antonio in 2013 where, except for the Hugo’s given to Stan Schmidt, several times I wanted either to 1. Vomit, or 2. Scream out objections over the SJW monologues, or 3. Just walk out. Very unpleasant. If the long shot were to come through, I will have a designated picker-upper there if I am not. In the Novella category, at least, where SP3 swept, I hope Sasquan provides asbestos gear for… Read more »
Brad R. Torgersen
Guest

Arlan, I think I can speak for all of us Analog guys that I wanted to scream with triumph when Stan won. Then I wanted to punch some CHORFs in the face for having snubbed Stan for decades, because apparently having the most widely circulated SF mag in the english language and birthing many dozens of careers doesn’t “rate” with the CHORFs.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Will someone tell Steve Davidson?

http://amazingstoriesmag.com/2015/04/ill-casting-final-hugo-vote/

(I’m not registering to make a single comment.

Wes S.
Guest

Surprise, surprise: Tor has closed comments on their Hugo Noms thread for the weekend, so their moderators can give it their “full attention” when they come back to work Monday.

Since their official count is up to 38 comments, but the final comment is numbered #41, it looks like they’ve already broken out the banhammer as it is…

*rolls eyes*

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

It’s Tor.com. What can you expect?

Despite their frequent idiocy, they have some good features, though.

John R. Ellis
Guest
I quit reading most Tor.com columnists after Jo Walton stated a straight white male character in an Edwardian romance novel she was reviewing MUST be secretly gay “because he’s so decent and good to the heroine”…and went on and on about how that’s definitive proof, as in real life straight men who are decent just don’t exist and bi men are just gay men who kind of, sort of pretend to like women. <_< I quit reading all of them after they published a lengthy, vitriolic, completely unhinged article on how Star Trek: The Next Generation was the most evil… Read more »
Suburbanbanshee
Guest
Jo Walton also thinks that Heyer, a woman of unshamed Jewish heritage, is being anti-Semitic when she writes about a Jewish character who isn’t a nice upper class person. But frankly, in the Regency, you weren’t going to find nice aristocratic Jewish people. It was respectable tradesmen, poor people in the slums, and criminals in the slums. So after all the talk in various novels about young men going to moneylenders, Heyer actually has a heroine confront one and get the money back, while presenting the laws that protected minors and the social IOU rules that prevented minors from taking… Read more »
James May
Guest

This is off topic but Minnie Driver starred in a 1998 film called The Governess. It is about a late 1830s London Jewish woman who has to support her family after the murder of her father. She passes herself off as a Protestant and goes to work for a wealthy Scottish family as a governess. It weirdly takes in the invention of photography but in a great way. I just love that film.

Suburbanbanshee
Guest

Actually, Walton’s major misunderstanding of Cotillion was that when Freddy said that “I ain’t in the petticoat line,” he was saying that he wasn’t a womanizer who slept with tons of loose women and prostitutes, whereas she took it as “I’m gay, Dad.” After that, she was basically reading the book the way a slash fan watches Star Trek. Predictably, this led her to more misunderstandings about the characters.

Learning new phrases by context is an important skill for the sf/fantasy or historical fiction reader.

Suburbanbanshee
Guest

That sounds like a very fun movie. I will have to watch that one!

Synova
Guest
Of all the Heyer novels I’ve read the one that seemed to imply, strongly, that homosexuality was a thing was… the one I can’t remember the name of… um… the young heiress dressed up like a boy travels with the older Lord somebody incognito and their mail coach is overturned and they meet a thief and there is a stolen necklace… that one. There’s murder and shenanigans and when the couple is discovered by the lord who stole his mother’s necklace he *threatens to blackmail* the first guy. It doesn’t say exactly, but it seems obvious to me that the… Read more »
Gremlin1974
Guest

ROFLMAO, Why do I get the feeling that the TOR expense account is gonna make a number of liquor stores very happy!

Richard McEnroe
Guest

When they lock themselves in the bunker…

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Someone else will have to collect the wisdom of Damien G Walter. I am now blocked by him on Twitter and I’m informed that he’s now protected his tweets.

Kind of a relief, really. 🙂

Gremlin1974
Guest

He has since hidden his Twitter Account, LMAO! Apparently the Breitbart London article didn’t sit to well with him.

Cedar Sanderson
Guest

You are a good man, Larry. Happy and Blessed Easter.

James May
Guest

“Cora Buhlert @CoraBuhlert · 11h 11 hours ago @PrinceJvstin A combination of extremely high tides, bad planning, insufficient dikes and belated warnings.”

Cora Buhlert and Paul Weimer brainstorm the no-show of women, PoC and lesbians at the Hugos.

Feather Blade
Guest

“Insufficient dikes”

LOL

Steve
Guest
For me, it was going to be very difficult to choose between SKIN GAME and MONSTER HUNTER: NEMESIS for Best Novel. They are both hugely enjoyable books and their respective series’ are on my “shut up and take my money!” list. So now my decision is simple: SKIN GAME it is. Can you believe that it’s the fifteenth novel in one of the most popular and best-loved urban fantasy series – with millions of readers around the world – yet Jim Butcher has *never* been nominated for a Hugo best novel before today? Which would be understandable if the nominations… Read more »
Steve
Guest

James May – “Cora Buhlert and Paul Weimer brainstorm the no-show of women, PoC and lesbians at the Hugos.”

Vox Day is a Native American and he’s been nominated twice.

So they could vote for him.

Anthony Pacheco
Guest

Awesomely brilliant.

James May
Guest
“… I am used to bigots dominating the conversation and being galled by my existence. I am used to people vilifying my name, my language, my ethnicity, my gender, my sexual orientation. I am used to resistance as default, as the condition by which I exist. So this year’s Hugo ballot — on which are heavily represented men far better known for advocating white supremacy, violence against women, and hatred of queer people than they are for their fiction, to the point where it appears they were chosen for their advocacy over their fiction — feels like business as usual… Read more »
Steve
Guest

Wendell luxuriates in her salty crocodile tears. Hoooooooooooooonnnnn!!!

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

One of the strangest attacks on Sad Puppies to come out of Making Light is the exclusion of the second volume of Patterson’s Heinlein biography. Apparent, we should have nominated it. But if we had, they would then claim it was only because we’re crazed Heinlein worshippers . . .

Nathan
Guest

That one’s been around for a while. Larry and Mike Glyer talked that over earlier.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Ahh, I see.

Coincidence?

James May
Guest
Second strangest. In principle, Chris Shankpunter believes N. K. Jemisin, Daniel Jose Older, Jaymee Goh and K. Tempest Bradford should be lotteried into Coventry and shot. “Chris Warcraft @ChrisWarcraft · 8h 8 hours ago The only thing that Vox Day deserves to win is a trip to a society that believes what he espouses so a random person can shoot him.” Shame on you Chris Shankpunter. Meanness will give you whooping cough, the rickets, incontinence, and mental retardation. Proof of the mental retardation is believing a society that believes in what Day espouses would shoot him. Did you think before… Read more »
les ismor
Guest

There’s already talk among the ideologically pure about a lot of “no award” votes. I didn’t even realize such a thing was possible. It just further cements the idea in my mind that most of these offense-peddling outrage mongers are nothing but overgrown children. They’re literally saying “If one of us can’t win, then no one can.”

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[…] Update: Larry Correia confirmed in a post on his blog that he did decline his nomination. […]

Phil Sevetson
Guest

Larry,
Tactically, I agree with your decision. Personally, I am sorry not to have the chance to vote for you this year. Nemesis is up to your usual standards of edge-of-the seat action interspersed with brilliant humor.

I hope the time will come when the Hugos

Phil Sevetson
Guest

Larry,
Tactically, I agree with your decision. Personally, I am sorry not to have the chance to vote for you this year. Nemesis is up to your usual standards of edge-of-the seat action interspersed with brilliant humor.

I hope the time will come when the Hugo process is a level playing field. I’m not optimistic about it, but it’d be a good thing if it happened.

Phil Sevetson
Guest

Stupid Android browser. Is there a moderator who can remove this post and my second previous post?

Richard McEnroe
Guest

Call an SJW. They’re good at censoring stuff.

Leit
Guest

my sides –> ——x——–

low-earth orbit –> —————-

stratosphere –> —————-

me –>____x_____

Expendable Henchman
Guest

Sorry, the local rules are posts live forever, brilliant and dumbass alike.

Except mine. I made one of two posts in the history of this blog to be removed by Larry. (don’t ask, the evidence is gone, and Google never cached it.)

You’ll just have to work a LOT harder at your dumbassery if you want to join the truly elite.

rd
Guest
Nemesis deserved to be nominated. Nemesis was that good. I saw glimpses of Agent Franks personality in the first two books, and Nemesis really fleshed his character and motivations out. There will be other chances for Hugo Awards, because you have the skill and the drive to write great books. The Sad Puppies are going to make the Hugo the popular broad based, and important award it always was. It is hard work, but there is no other way to defeat the self-proclaimed elitist SJW. The Sad Puppies are made up of people who are used to hard work, and… Read more »
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[…] of books.. Mike Glyer at File 770 looks at the slate in detail. An interesting note: Larry Correia declined a Hugo nomination for his book. I wonder who got on the final nominee list as a […]

S1AL
Guest

“That Locus could produce such an extensive list without including a single book published by Baen deters me from trying to argue that a book or story which doesn’t appear on the list must be presumed to fall below the necessary of excellence.”

– Mike Glyer, going to bat for the basic honesty of SP at Whatever

I know I appreciate that.

Synova
Guest

Basic honesty is a good thing.

Jared Anjewierden
Guest

We need more Glyers out there – don’t always agree with him, but he’s been trying to be fair and honest, at least the last bit that I’ve been paying attention.

Jared Anjewierden
Guest

It is also important to remember – a lot of people don’t know anything about this but what their friends are telling them, and not all of those friends a) know themselves, and b) are being completely honest.

I think it is important to assume good faith until proven otherwise, and not be too hard on people whose only fault is ignorance.

Sway the undecided, after all.

S1AL
Guest

Even better, I think he was actually convinced of a number of claims on the basis of the evidence presented. That speaks volumes.

And hey, prior to SP I had no idea his site existed, so now I have a new stopping place for my lulls at work.

Gremlin1974
Guest

Larry, you guys made Breitbart London page, lol.

Brad, You guys made Breitbart London, LOL!!!

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/04/04/hugo-awards-nominations-swept-by-anti-sjw-anti-authoritarian-authors/

Keep it up Larry, the MHI Reserve has got your back!

Gremlin1974
Guest

Opp’s looks like I left my message for Brad in that one, lol.

Texas Bob
Guest
I must say, I love your books, not your politics. But I think your books SHOULD be considered for a Hugo, so I guess I’m on your side in this. Although I see a little differently – While I’m a huge fan of both series, I see the MH series as fun, of the guilty pleasure sort, but the Grimnoir series is GREAT science fiction (but fun too). The plotting and characters are simply world-class. I’d rather see a Grimnoir book as a hugo winner than a MH book. But do keep churning them out – I’ll buy them. Most… Read more »
trackback

[…] LARRY CORREIA EXPLAINS why he declined his Hugo nomination. […]

trackback

[…] ETA: Larry Correia, alleged to have launched the whole thing in order to win a Hugo for himself…um…declined his nomination. […]

NKR
Guest

Good call, Larry. Their whole strategy is about isolating one person and making it all about him/her. That way they sidetrack the actual discussion and deflect attention. They don’t want facts or logic to interfere because they cannot honestly defend their position. It’s all emotion.

Eric S. Raymond
Guest

I salute your integrity, sir.

When I announced that I had received a Campbell Award nomination on my blog, I reiterated my previous request that people *not* vote for me for political reasons or to get up some other tribe’s nose.

If more SF & fantasy authors did likewise, I think the field would be improveed by it.

My announcement:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6721

B. Daniel Blatt
Guest

To use a word, your maternal grandmother might have used, Larry Correia, you’re a mensch.

James May
Guest
“I care immensely about sci-fi. Purchasing fake memberships to force out authors that play by the rules and earned their spot is despicable. Gamergate hijacked this year’s Hugo Awards, and loaded them with extremist homophobic authors. My husband has 4 Hugos, and I have thoughts.” – Brianna Wu Brianna Wu used the word “fake” without a nose growing out to the Oort Cloud. And in a world where there is no word such as “heterophobic,” there can be no such thing as a “homophobe.” Without light there is no dark, and SJWs constantly use words like “bigot” as if they… Read more »
Brian
Guest

Here Here, but I wouldn’t touch them with a 100-foot pole.

Chris Scena
Guest

“My husband has 4 Hugos, and I have thoughts.”

Well my wife has a vagina so I have some thoughts on menstruation. Makes about as much sense.

Jeff
Guest

Thank you, Larry: “… I want writers to be free to write whatever they want without fear of social justice witch hunts, I want creators to not have to worry about silencing themselves to appease the perpetually outraged, and I want fans to enjoy themselves without having some entitled snob lecture them about how they are having fun wrong.”

James R. Rummel
Guest

Well done, sir, well done!

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[…] “Sad Puppies Update: The Nominees Announced and Why I Refused My Nomination” – April 4 […]

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[…] Sad Puppies Update: The Nominees Announced and Why I Refused My Nomination, by Larry Correia […]

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[…] wrongfans.) And the idiots who for years have said that this was all because Larry wanted a Hugo owe him a giant apology. Until I see that I’m all out of f*cks to give about their precious hurt […]

Glenfilthie
Guest

Well big fella, I dunno if I agree with you here or not. Those ‘awards’ should be about the fans as much as the writers IMO, and if they want to give you one…or at least nominate you for one…maybe you should have graciously accepted it?

On the other hand…it is a great way to flip the bird at the people that seriously need to be told to FOAD.

From what little I’ve seen of the tempest in this particular teapot…it may be a ‘no-win’ situation. Best of luck to ya all the same.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
This was possibly the most revealing rant I read yesterday: :: Alex R. ::: (view all by) ::: April 04, 2015, 06:02 PM: Brad R. Torgersen @ 41 (….) You have brought our ugly, vicious, modern American culture wars into the Hugo process. I will be registering for a supporting membership for the first time in my life and voting everything on your slate below No Award. I will be doing this because I hate your stupid, obnoxious, bullshit. I hate the nonsensical idea that people are prejudiced against your conservatism. I hate your association with Grand Master Racist Asshole… Read more »
Gremlin1974
Guest
Perhaps you should look in the mirror and give that same speech. It wasn’t about Larry’s political beliefs. It is about a snobbish clique that has controlled the awards for the past 2 decades because of their non inclusive policies that they based on political ideals. So when someone decides that they have had enough and decides to make a move to expanded the voter base there is a typical full meltdown, which are the hallmark of typical vicious progressives who believe that selections should be based on some “social justice” issue and not on whether or not the nomination… Read more »
Eamon J. Cole
Guest

From the wording of your response I’m not sure if you realize Mr. Chupik is re-posting a comment from elsewhere, and not because he agrees but to bring the toxicity to wider attention.

Directed to Alex R., I entirely agree with your sentiment.

Caveat: I’m not around here as much (and with the server migration I missed a few posts) so you guys may know each other well and it was clear to everyone but me.

Gremlin1974
Guest

Actually no, it was 100% my mistake and I have apologized to Christopher above and I thank you for pointing out my error.

Eamon J. Cole
Guest

Is cool, I saw your apology just now, fair play to you.

We’ll just redirect your response to Alex R. — ’cause I loved it.

Gremlin1974
Guest

To Eamon below, I am looking for that particular screed now, lol.

Gremlin1974
Guest

OMG, I am so sorry, I was responding through via E-Mail, I deeply apologize to you Christopher, my response was directed at the comment apparently by an Alex R.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Yeah, don’t worry about it. Misunderstandings happen.

Eamon J. Cole
Guest

Wow. Somebody might want to check the air in Alex R.’s room. I suspect alarms should be going off.

I’ma just gonna stick a Larry quote here, in response to Alex R.’s rant:

“… I want writers to be free to write whatever they want without fear of social justice witch hunts, I want creators to not have to worry about silencing themselves to appease the perpetually outraged, and I want fans to enjoy themselves without having some entitled snob lecture them about how they are having fun wrong.”

Seems applicable.

Gremlin1974
Guest

If you think about it, it is a pretty typical response from people of that mindset, which is about the level of your typical toddler. They don’t get their way and you get a foot stomping fit with screeching about how it unfair and wrong. But if you pay close attention to their reactions, much like a toddler, it is really all about them and them not getting their way.

Eamon J. Cole
Guest

Yep. And the shock on their face when confronted with someone saying “no.”

Toddlers. As you say.

Gremlin1974
Guest

Precisely, but I do so enjoy that look, especially when I cause it. Guilty pleasure I guess.

Eamon J. Cole
Guest

😀

As an aside: WordPress thinks comments are “too short” now? Hmph.

Patrick Chester
Guest

This is dedicated to Alex R:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70

😉

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Funny, that’s EXACTLY what went through my mind reading the anti-Puppy comments.

Gremlin1974
Guest

Where was Alex R.’s little screed anyway, I can’t find it? I would like to resonate some understanding to him.
🙂

Patrick Chester
Guest

It’s a clip I saved for dealing with trolls on various sites. 🙂

Salt
Guest

Classy, Larry, but to what avail? I’m afraid that, since the fence sitters have not understood even till now, your sacrifice on the alter of humility is in vain, but well played in any case as it shall surely crank up the volume even more.

You’ve given them another opening to spill their guts out on. One way to hunt monsters is to yell, “Come get me, you bastards,” then slice and dice them when they do.

The coming entertainment should be exquisite.

trackback

[…] Puppies concept creator Larry Correia withdrew his nomination for Best Novel, received for Monster Hunter Nemesis. He did not want anyone to be able to say that he proposed Sad […]

John R. Ellis
Guest

I’m kind of confused on how “Rat Queens” got on the best graphic novel vote. They didn’t put out very many issues in 2014, due to one of the books creators being in trouble with the law for beating and molesting women.

BUT several characters in the book are gay, so I guess that makes it just count so much more? o_o

Fruitbat44
Guest

Larry – I think that your refusing the nomination is the right thing to do. “Tactically” and “spiritually.”

I hope you enjoyed your holiday.

Bruce Holland Rogers
Guest

I’ve been largely absent from fandom, and I hadn’t noticed these SFnal politics, but I have certainly noticed cyberstalking and bullying in the pursuit of conformity.

Literature needs to be a refuge of true diversity, where every voice is heard, and I’m very happy to see that SPTOTC, while ridiculing the tactics of certain ideologues is largely hewing to the principle that we all get to believe what we believe and we all get to express ourselves. Besides, the artist and the art are separate. Books deserve to be assessed as if they had no author.

Bruce Holland Rogers
Guest

Anyway, thanks for all that you’ve done to show that this battle isn’t about politics, but about political diversity; that it isn’t about personal ambition, but about ambitions for the genre’s future.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

“Vivian J. James ‏@RealVivianJames · 3h3 hours ago
I’d like to take a second to thank Brianna Wu for bringing #SadPuppies to #GamerGate’s attention.

I love making new allies!”

🙂

John M. Burt
Guest

Definitely, #SadPuppies and #GamerGate were made for one another.

@votermom
Guest

CONGRATS!!! To Larry, er, Lord of Hate, and all the Sad Puppies.

Ed Hobbes
Guest

@John R. Ellis:

I would guess that some of that is people voting for the incoming writer, even though they’re not supposed to vote on that basis. Stjepan Sejic is best known for an “emotionally sensitive” series about a lesbian bondage couple. Of course, Sejic is very white and very male, and one has to ask the what exactly the criterion is that separates “good” white male writers of lesbian bondage porn from “bad” ones. That doesn’t stop him from having a huge fan base.

60guilders
Guest

Mr. Hobbes, I am surprised at you.
Surely you’ve been around long enough to know that if said white male is reliably leftist he is given a free pass by the SJWs.
As to the other half of the political spectrum, they don’t care about the politics, they just want their porn.

Mary
Guest

He even has the right to abuse women and non-whites for offenses against SJW orthodoxy.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

James Nicoll, trying to organize a boycott of Baen because Toni was nominated by SP twice:

http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/5297418.html

Yeah, that’ll hurt Baen. Losing the guy who bashes Baen on a weekly basis.

Wes S.
Guest
Gremlin1974
Guest

Darn it Wes, warn people before you do that stuff, I shot coke zero through my nose, LMAO!

Bravo! Bravo!

David, infamous sockpuppet
Guest

He has nice things to say about Tom Doherty, though. Doesn’t Tom have a piece of the action at Baen, since he and Jim Baen cofounded it back in the 80s? Thought for sure that I read that somewhere. If that is the case, someone ought to go over and inform those asshats.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

Heh. “I am so upset that I’m going to stop writing negative reviews of your books”.

You’re right. That’ll show ’em.

James May
Guest

A progressive blacklist. What a surprise.

I think it’s hilarious he charges $100 per review. His site reminds me beepers.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

Do the various parties issuing calls for “No Award” imagine that tactic is limited to their own followers?

‘Cause I’m pretty sure it isn’t.

Just sayin’.

Kevin Standlee
Guest
Because of a fair bit of misunderstanding about how No Award works in the Hugo Awards voting and because I’ve grown tired of answering the same questions repeatedly, I wrote an article about how No Award works and how you should mark your ballot depending on your actual preferences. None of this is new; there’s a different way of telling it on the Hugo Awards web site. I don’t want anyone saying that in the matter of explaining how to vote against any given candidate, I’m not equal-opportunity. Personally, I really wish we had a realistic version of No Award/None… Read more »
Gremlin1974
Guest
That’s just it, I don’t understand how they can gripe and moan, when other than the childish “we didn’t get our way” argument, the net outcome of SP was; 1: More money (no pay no vote!) 2. Expanded fan base interested in the awards. (How is this a bad thing?) 3. A very good list of very deserving nominee’s. The “No Award” thing is just petty and childish. Basically, it just says that the CHORF’s (sp?) are so petty and petulant they would rather see no one get the award than for an author that deserves the award to get… Read more »
Kevin Standlee
Guest
Considering that one of the apparent avowed goals of SP/RP was to say, “If our slate can’t win, then nobody should win” by deliberately excluding anything else by strategic nominating, I would suggest that your blaster shoots in both directions. And note that I’m not accusing anyone of doing anything that’s against the rules. The Hugo Award nominating rules clearly allow dedicated, devoted minorities to concentrate their works in such a way that they dominate against the traditionally disorganized group that the electorate typically is. (Don’t even start about conspiracy theories about Sekrit Marching Orders. They didn’t happen. If they… Read more »
pax
Guest
Considering that one of the apparent avowed goals of SP/RP was to say, “If our slate can’t win, then nobody should win” by deliberately excluding anything else by strategic nominating, I would suggest that your blaster shoots in both directions. Quotes, please. “Apparent goal.” That’s a short way of saying, “You maybe never said this, but I’m going to assign a motive to you out of my own head, and then I will treat you like that was your REAL motive no matter what else you might say about why you did what you did.” And “avowed” is another solid… Read more »
Kevin Standlee
Guest

The name of the campaign was “to make the puppies [i.e. the SJWs and Liberals and anyone else we disagree with] cry.” That’s pretty obvious from the get-go.

Mrs. Wif
Guest

This is a reply to Kevin Standlee.

The campaign was in fact “to combat puppy-related sadness”. It was to make puppies happy by bringing back the zip and joy in fun, challenging and cool skiffy tales of wonder.

Combating puppy-related sadness (the stated goal, you can find it all over Larry’s blog) is the opposite of the lie you are telling about Sad Puppies.

Synova
Guest

The name of the campaign was to *combat* the leading cause of Puppy Sadness.

The Puppies were Sad.

This got shortened to Sad Puppies, but it’s not to *make* the Puppies cry. How did you get that?

Sure it got shortened to “Sad Puppies” but in no way could the “Puppies” be thought to be “the SJW’s and Liberals and anyone else we disagree with.”

Synova
Guest

And while I’ve got NO idea what Rabid Puppies was up to, I am as absolutely certain (as you are that collusion never previously happened ever) that the “strategic voting” on this never went beyond thinking… “Hey, we’ve got five slots in each category. We should use them all.”

Which has undoubtedly resulted in a really and truly weird distortion of ALL of the minor categories which, I’m willing to bet money, almost never get more than one or two nominations from any one person and most people don’t vote for nominations at all.

pax
Guest

Kevin,

Again, it’s not as if there aren’t plenty of words out there explaining people’s reasoning for their actions.

Maybe it might be a good idea to review the stated reasons before making up any extra ones.

James May
Guest

Shanks the Clown (formerly known as Shanks the Punter) is angry:

“Chris Warcraft @ChrisWarcraft · 13h 13 hours ago And I would highly encourage everyone else to boycott Stardock as well until they make a change. Wardell is toxic and needs to go.”

That reminds, me – after sad puppies, what about sad clowns crying down by the river? They need a hero too.

TallDave
Guest

Stardock! Those bastards stole years of my life!!

😉

Doctor Locketopus
Guest
Since you’re here: I notice that you’re making reference to the “puppy slate” that Mike Resnick distanced himself from on File770. There were two different “puppy slates” that, while they do match in some respects (e.g., Resnick appears on both, and deservedly so), also have substantial points of difference. They were organized by two different groups of people. Resnick said he wasn’t contacted about the Rabid Puppy slate. Has he made any such statement about the Sad Puppy slate? I haven’t seen it, if so. Were you actually unaware there were two (which seems doubtful), or were you intentionally attempting… Read more »
Patrick Chester
Guest

Considering that one of the apparent avowed goals of SP/RP was to say, “If our slate can’t win, then nobody should win” by deliberately excluding anything else by strategic nominating, I would suggest that your blaster shoots in both directions.

Really? Since you provided no direct quote of this avowing, I would suggest that makes something about you rather… apparent.

suburbanbanshee
Guest
Mr. Standlee is not being a liar. He is demonstrating that either he has been lied to, or that he made an assumption he failed to check, or both. It is not as though his friends are circulating our puppy memes; he lives in an isolated world, as do many people who rarely stray outside their corner of the Internet. The takeaway is that we have to repeat the puppy messages in every post, or at least link to a puppy meme. Otherwise we will have people making up something about us all supporting animal abuse, or something equally weird,… Read more »
vnehringviktor
Guest
Kevin: Thanks for poking your nose out/in. I think that offering up more options on a slate is a good idea. Surely, the critics would all die down if that had happened. Right? Like in the Novella category. SP offered up 3. Question: What is on Earth is an “apparent avowed goal”? And do you still think this: Quote: The name of the campaign was “to make the puppies [i.e. the SJWs and Liberals and anyone else we disagree with] cry.” That’s pretty obvious from the get-go. Unquote. You have been corrected on this point over and over. Again, thanks… Read more »
Retro Rockets
Guest

Well I can’t get the images to embed, but here are a few quick congratulations to everyone that was nominated and thank you to everyone that made nominations this year.

comment image

comment image

comment image

TallDave
Guest

Respect. The right and tactically correct thing to do.

senor cinnabutters
Guest

I came across this post after googling “monster hunter” to look for any updates of the game. I haven’t read the boss, and I know nothing about you, but from this post alone, you have my respect, for being one of the people who take a stand against the social justice lynch mob, and the war those bigots are waging on art and free expression. Respect, fine sir. Respect

A.Nagy
Guest

Clearly Larry should get commissioned by Capcom to write a MH book. I mean come on the point of the game is a team of hunters(4 in the games) all with hilariously oversized weapons take down giant Fantasy Dinosaurs/Dragons/other weird creatures.

Rock
Guest

“Again, Monster Hunter Nation, I apologize if this offends any of you who voted for my novel.”

All will be forgiven if you would just hurry up and publish the next book in the series already!

Edward Willett
Guest
vnehringviktor
Guest

Excellent overview. Give him some clicks, people!

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

I have met Ed in person a few times. He’s a smart guy. 🙂

elissaf
Guest

If you truly wanted your limit genre to grow, you’d quit your backlashing against multicultural elements and stop being a dicks only “my rocket is bigger than yours” boys club.

Your anti literary attitude as well should be similarly stuffed back where the sun don’t shine.

flyergrad
Guest

Did you fail reading comprehension in school? Or are you willfully ignorant? You could not possibly have understood anything Mr Correia or Mr Torgersen wrote about SP3 to make those comments.

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
– HERBERT SPENCER

Please note that this was written before current PC rules, so Mr Spencer did not include us women, but it applies to us as well.

Gremlin1974
Guest

Great quote! Well done.

James May
Guest

If this multiculture was yielding such great dividends, wouldn’t it be obvious? I mean, what I see is a bunch of people flocking to America, not the other way around.

The way we do things is the standard in forensics, technology, science, commercial aviation, literature, televised sports, film – frickin’ everything.

Where’s all this non-binary non-white extravagant wisdom? What’s more mind-bending than putting people on the moon?

I sense low self-esteem trying to blow itself up to the size of a blimp at our expense.

“Cultural appropriation”? Really? LIke what? Incense? Cuz that’s changed everything.

DonM
Guest
You’ve gone wobbly, and for no reason. They are going to spin it as about you no matter what you do. In their minds you are inseparably and perpetually linked to Sad Puppies. As I thought you knew, if someone’s whole existence resolves arround being outraged about you, nothing you say or do will keep them from being outraged. You don’t actually think you saying, “Oh, but I turned down the nomination” will matter in the least, do you? Turning down the Hugo nomination seems to me to be the same as someone “…silencing themselves to appease the perpetually outraged”,… Read more »
PharmaDan
Guest

You are a class act Correia, and I’m sure that the fact you actually declined a nomination for a “oh so super important” Hugo is sending the CHORFs into even more of a frothing rage. 😀

You’ve become my new standard write in for election ballots that don’t have anyone I like on them.

Question- I’ve seen you mention Cracekd.com a few times on the site, have you or Torgersen thought about writing an article on this and Hugos for Cracked? They’ve shown themselves to be no fan of the SJW type and have a huge audience avaible to them.

60guilders
Guest

Unfortunately for that plan, Sad Puppies is now associated with GamerGate.
Cracked, which is very pro-SJW, hates Gamergate with the fiery passion of 10,000 suns.

Mousekt
Guest
What bothers me about the current Sad Puppy kerfluffle is that, at it’s core, it’s simply a get-out-the-vote campaign, and what’s wrong wih that? Even if it cynically trades on anger and frustration (as is alleged by the campaign’s critics), that wouldn’t be possible without existing anger and frustration. So either nothing ideological is at stake, and there’s no reason to fear a larger, more active fanbase, or there is already a pool of anger and frustration, and maybe something needs to change. The only way I can see justifing the resistance is the assumption that the voters really aren’t… Read more »
Kevin Standlee
Guest
What bothers me about the current Sad Puppy kerfluffle is that, at it’s core, it’s simply a get-out-the-vote campaign… In that case, prove it. Instead of SP4 being “here’s a solid slate of the same number of works as there are slots of the ballot, designed to push everything else off the ballot,” do what all of the other groups who encourage their members to vote do: Provide reading lists. Promote works you like. Object examples are those lists promoted by NESFA and BASFA (the latter through the LiveJournal Hugo_Recommend group). Participate in crowsourced eligibility groups. Do y’all really think… Read more »
Suburbanbanshee
Guest
So basically, there is One Approved Way to vote for the Hugos or support authors, and we are all supposed to magically know the One Approved Way. Mr. Standlee. I have been going to conventions for over twenty-five years. I spent my high school years memorizing fannish history books, before I was ever able to attend a convention. I have even made the pilgrimage to Bowling Green to do fannish and sf author research, and I go to pulp cons. I own two Hannes Bok sketches and a Dick Gaughan, and my dungeonmaster is one of your old buddies. I… Read more »
Kevin Standlee
Guest
…really short slates of the Scalzi type… You keep using that word “slate” in that way. I do not think that word means what you think it means. Because I’m obviously a moron will you please explain to me once and for all what the difference between: 1. “Here are the works I published last year; if you liked them and think they are award-worthy, I hope that you will nominate them” and 2. “Here is a list of other people’s works, designed to completely swamp the ballot and crush all other discussion.” In my world, these are different things,… Read more »
Suburbanbanshee
Guest

An all-me list, an all-me-and-my-friends list, an all-my-favorite-books-and-people-eligible-this-year list, or an overlooked-eligible-people-and-books list: they all look like the same thing to me.

Saying anything is eligible, unless it is a complete list of eligible things and people, means that one is suggesting Hugo voting choices. Advocating any list of books as “recommended” and eligible? That also means that one is suggesting Hugo voting choices.

So at this point, we are only arguing social or organizational rules; and apparently there’s nothing in the Constitution about this matter. So we must be talking purely social rules.

Kevin Standlee
Guest
a complete list of eligible things and people Don’t be silly. Surely you’re aware that it would be effectively impossible to compile such a list. This is why when people have come to me with variations of saying, “WSFS needs to compile a definitive list of every single work in the world that’s eligible this year,” I respond with variations of, “Because such a work would be practically impossible, if WSFS or any Worldcon created such a list, it would be officially favoring works listed on it over any other work, and that’s not going to happen.” …we are only… Read more »
Gremlin1974
Guest

“a lot of people who have been part of the Worldcon community for a long time”

Not including us dirty outsiders? But yea there is not a clique.

“they believe that social norms to which they are accustomed have been broken.”

Wow, how like real life is that?

“Remember this appeal to rules if WSFS changes its rules over the next couple of years.”

Nicely veiled threat Kevin. So now its we will change the rules to get rid of you dirty outsiders.

Up until now I have defended you and your attempt to remain objective, I can see my defense was misplaced.

Kevin Standlee
Guest
Nicely veiled threat Kevin. So now its we will change the rules to get rid of you dirty outsiders. No, you don’t get it. I am not going to change any rules at all affecting Hugo Award voting. In fact, I’m the co-author of a proposal that, if ratified this year, would give non-attending members a voice in the amendment-ratification process. (I’ll have to recuse myself from the Chair during the ratification debate because I’m the proposal’s co-author.) You’re attacking someone who authored rules that, if ratified this year, would give you a vote on changes to WSFS rules even… Read more »
Gremlin1974
Guest

Then I sincerely apologize and I agree I would expect just something like that.

I just wish that the outcome of all of this would be a welcoming of the new members and that I what I would expect the outcome to be.

I fully realize that the loudest segment is usually the smallest minority. But some of the “older” ( no slight intended) members have really done a disservice (once again for the sake of form I refuse to name names) to the whole process by their over the top reaction.

Once again I apologize for my misunderstanding.

Kevin Standlee
Guest

Second attempt:

Thank you.

[Wow, that’s the first time I’ve ever have a comment canned because it was too short. (It’s rarely a problem for me.)]

Gremlin1974
Guest

LOL, happened to me earlier as well.

Suburbanbanshee
Guest
Furthermore, there have always been numerous Internet posts, magazine letters, and personal comments about people’s voting and nomination choices. This is frequently done ahead of time, and frequently they include people urging others to nominate or vote for the same work or works. There have also been numerous people who don’t talk about such things, but most of them say they want to avoid hurting people’s feelings if one should hear they’re not voting for him. Maybe things are different in different parts of the country, but everywhere I have traveled in fandom, people discuss and lobby for this stuff… Read more »
Suburbanbanshee
Guest

Of course it would be impossible to compile a list of all eligibles.

That is part of my point.

If I want to recommend folks for Hugos, I will.

Likewise, I am not going to throw away my red pants, or calmly swallow that they are proof I’m a slut or a drug dealer.

Suburbanbanshee
Guest
If organized science fiction fandom wishes to cease being an inclusive community composed of people who like sf/f, and wishes to turn itself into something like the Baker Street Irregulars, which you can only join if invited, this is indeed the way to go about it. But the BSI is no longer all of Sherlockian/Holmesian/Doylian fandom, nor has it been for years. It is a single honor/awards society with numerous scions affiliated with it, among a sea of organized and disorganized fandom. Its major link to its original nature is that they still have a banquet and a journal. They… Read more »
James May
Guest
“Social norms” like using the Hugos for group defamation? I dont’ know what you’re opinion is but in my opinion intersectional feminism outside of SFF is the ideology of about statistical 0% of all Americans. Inside the Hugos you have the very definition of a cult in 100% agreement: BEST NOVEL Ancillary Justice by Ann Leckie – devout intersectional feminist BEST NOVELLA “Equoid” by Charles Stross – a compassionate supporter of intersectionalism BEST NOVELETTE “The Lady Astronaut of Mars” by Mary Robinette Kowal – a staunch intersectionalist BEST SHORT STORY “The Water That Falls on You from Nowhere” by John… Read more »
Eamon J. Cole
Guest
2. “Here is a list of other people’s works, designed to completely swamp the ballot and crush all other discussion.” Mr. Standlee, slapping quotes around something you’re saying does not impart some magical legitimacy to a line you made up. Neither does repeating it. You’ve been posting all over the place regarding SP, usually deliberately casting the efforts in a negative light because they don’t accord with your feelings of propriety. You’ve staked yourself out as representative of WorldCon officialdom, wherein such exists. The net result of all that work, in my eyes, is to illuminate you as an officious,… Read more »
TallDave
Guest

“Here is a list of other people’s works, designed to completely swamp the ballot ”

I understand you’re upset, but surely you must recognize that a list cannot “swamp” anything, it is simply a list, all it can do is list things. Only a large number of voters can “swamp the ballot.”

It sounds like the complaint is that SP is better organized and has wider appeal than other, different lists.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

Artist’s impression of Kevin Standlee, on seeing the ballot results:

comment image

Gremlin1974
Guest

Frankly, Kevin, its because I left politics out of my decision of who to nominate. I never cared what the goal of SP was or was not. I voted for things that I had read before I knew the SP slate ever existed.

The difference is that people are implying that everyone who voted for SP suggestions must have had the same motivation, which is space debris.

James May
Guest

So the Hugo’s gonna screen our calls?

Suburbanbanshee
Guest

I will also note that pretty much nobody voted for the exact choices as the list given by Sad Puppies 3 or Rabid Puppies. Both anecdotal evidence and the results table show this.

Nobody is putting a gun to anybody’s head, saying they can’t vote for Ann Leckie and Vox Day. Given the weird and inclusive tastes of most science fiction readers and the tendency to vote for personal acquaintances, I could almost bet that several people did.

So what is the problem?

Craig
Guest
Correct me if I’m wrong, Mr. Standlee, but I think your problem is with offering a list of suggestions in which the number of suggested items matches the number of open slots. Right? Well, the distinction between offering a list of 3-5 suggestions per category vs. a list of 1-2 vs. a list of (say) 10 is a lot more obvious to you than it is to most of the other people in this thread. You seem to be interpreting this as a deliberate attempt to lock up the ballot. Right? I don’t know how else to interpret your comment… Read more »
Kevin Standlee
Guest
You personally may not support the “Rabid Puppies,” but it’s highly unlikely that anyone not in your group makes much of a distinction between them. The net result is a campaign led by people who explicitly say they want to burn down the Hugo Awards and destroy the Worldcon. Imagine being a member of a club, with a clubhouse, and that your club has been around since the 1930s and you personally had been a member since the 1980s and have invested tens of thousands of dollars of your own money and thousands of hours of your volunteer time with… Read more »
Jared Anjewierden
Guest

Yeah, how about no?

I will not apologize for anything anyone not me did. Nor will I do so for groups I don’t belong to.

Collective guilt was bull when it was called things like the one drop rule. It was dangerous bull at that.

Vox can do as he likes. Nielsen-Hayden can do as they like. The only people responsible for their actions are they, and they alone.

Eamon J. Cole
Guest
Yes. And thank you. The continued call for renunciations irritates me. Mr. Standlee, if you wanted things to continue with your own little club and your own little clubhouse why all the shock and upset when Larry declared it such 3 years ago? Why the declarations that if people wanted it to be different they should get involved? I’m sorry, you can’t have it both ways. It can’t be your own little club with your own little award and still demand relevance to the broader fanbase. The crowd of people is showing up because they’ve learned they have a voice.… Read more »
Kevin Standlee
Guest
Yes, they do have that right. And every other member has exactly the same right to denounce them. It really does work both ways. People associated with the Puppy campaigns have repeatedly denounced the choices that the other members of WSFS were making for years. I do not doubt that you personally cast your nominations for works that you loved and that you think worthy of an award. So why is is that the SP campaign somehow thinks that the nominations cast by other people are not because they love those works and think them worthy of awards, but because… Read more »
ratseal
Guest