Monster Hunter Nation

Sad Puppies Update: The Melt Down Continues

So the Powder Blue Care Bear of the Evil Legion of Evil has finally been pushed too far, and out comes the flame thrower.

https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/former-tor-editor-still-longs-to-gatekeep-the-field/

Good stuff. Brad explains everything really well, it his moderate, reasonable manner. Now, for my hatey hatemongers I need to clarify a few things. Some of the things Queen Teresa Neilsen Hayden is STILL saying in that thread from yesterday need to be addressed… Well, laughed at. Because they’re stupid. http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/016177.html

Wendell Making Light

Seriously, when it comes to demonstrating what I’ve been talking about for years, that link is like the gift that keeps on giving.  Here is what Teresa Nielsen Hayden has to say:

When I say the Hugos belong to the worldcon, I’m talking about the literal legal status of the award. 

Sure you were! We all totally believe that.

I do love how when we actually quote them, that’s not what they meant, but then they fabricate bogus scare quotes for me, then that’s totally what I really meant. Man, that Straw Larry is such a jerk, I’d hate me too. 

But I also know that one of the biggest reasons the rocket is magic is because it spiritually belongs to all of us who love SF.

Just not you guys. You’re the wrong kind of fans. They’ve got 700+ posts over there now making that perfectly clear.

Here’s the thing, Teresa. You don’t speak for all of fandom. You don’t own them. You don’t even speak for all of the TrueFans or SMOF or whatever you want to call them. There are plenty of longtime SMOFs who are just as sick of your preening, entitled nonsense as my people are, and though they may find my actions upsetting or barbaric, or personally think I’m a jerk, at least everything I’ve done has been in the open… Plus, they are safe to criticize my side without fear of retribution or career sabotage. Can’t say the same thing about your side.

I’ve been thinking about the aspects of the Sad Puppy campaigns that bother me most. So far there are three.

Only three? Wow. I’d better check my privilege. I’m used to bothering these people in dozens of ways. 

Up first, the perpetual evil that is Mad Mike Williamson. 

First, there’s the Best Related Work category. That’s where the reference works wind up. Good reference books are labors of love, especially that last 10% of quality that takes 50% of the total labor. People who create reference books get one shot at the Hugo.

Oh really? Don’t worry. We’ll take a look at the history of this illustrious award in a moment.

Did you see Amazon’s sample text from Wisdom from My Internet by Michael Z. Williamson? Apparently it’s on the Hugo ballot in the Best Related Work category. Williamson didn’t know to keep his gob shut until the official announcement. @booksmugglers picked up and tweeted the story, and Kevin Maroney reported on it here.

I talked to Mike Williamson about this. It was a simple mistake. The email either wasn’t clear about keeping quiet until the 4th or he missed that part.  When Mike was informed of his error, he then deleted the posts, and apologized to the administrators, who said no harm done, and they apologized for not making the email clearer. 

Except Insider SMOF Queen knows that this is an unforgivable sin. 

That is a thoroughly bad book, including its frontmatter and interior design,

Says the editor, judging a book by its cover. 

and it’s not a related work. It’s just a nonfiction book published in the appropriate year by a Sad-Puppy-approved author, so they tossed it onto their stupid slate. I expect there are other SP titles in that category, so more than one book that would have been a nominee for Best Related Work has been displaced.

Uh huh… Let’s take a look at prior years in this illustrious, super prestigious category, that only consistently represents the best in sci-fi/fantasy, and not various insider cliques.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Award_for_Best_Related_Work  

2009’s winner was sci fi author John Scalzi’s Your Hate Mail Will Be Graded: A Decade of Whatever, where the beloved Social Justice Warrior and SFWA president John Scalzi collected funny internet posts into a book. However, Teresa says that when evil libertarian sci fi author Mike Williamson collected funny internet posts into a book, that was SUPER BAD and SHOULD NOT COUNT. 

But wait, what other illustrious things have been on there? A cursory glance through the various nominees shows that Teresa is being disingenuous again. This isn’t just the category for scholarly reference works. Maybe it used to be, but now it is a grab bag of everything. 

In the last few years that category has had nominations for things like: 

Chicks Dig Timelords, A Celebration of Doctor Who by the Women Who Love It. (which won 2011, beating scholarly works about Robert Heinlein, and Resnick and Malzburg’s collection of writings on the business of sci-fi)

Chicks Dig Comics, A Celebration of Comics by the Women Who Love Them 

Chicks Unravel Time, Women Journey Through Every Season of Doctor Who. 

(That lost to Writing Excuses that year.  Good, Writing Excuses deserved it. I voted for it, plugged it, and the one year it won, was by a small margin so probably wouldn’t have made it without Sad Puppies voters. You are welcome, Mary)

Last year had Queers Dig Timelords, A Celebration of Doctor Who by the LGBTQ Fans Who Love It, but it lost to a feminist paper of dubious historical accuracy. 

But Mike Williamson’s bit of fan wankery will RUIN THE DIGNITY OF THE AWARDS FOREVER!  

Good thing the rest of our proposed slate consisted of scholarly related works. I’m sure Teresa will have no problem if any of those get on. 

Second: the nominees on the Sad Puppy slate who got onto the ballot. Indications are that a fair number of them, maybe a majority, are respectable members of the SF community who, for one reason or another, are approved of by the SPs while not being ideologically Sad Puppies themselves.

Yes, a majority of them are *respectable* members of the SF community (whatever that is supposed to mean), and they are *approved* by the Sad Puppies because they produced quality work that would normally be ignored or actively shunned or sabotaged by insider assholes. 

And to clarify, we’re not actually Sad Puppies. We’re doing this FOR the puppies, because the leading cause of Puppy Related Sadness is stupid preachy social justice message fic getting awards while good stuff is ignored. We are a coalition of fans and manatees taking a courageous stand against the scourge of PRS. 

You are welcome, America. 

The question isn’t why they are approved by us, but why they never have or never would be approved by you elitist pricks?

This means they’ve dreamed of winning the Hugo, just like all our other writers and artists and editors.

But because they failed to kiss your ring or sufficient Social Justice ass, they never had a snowball’s chance in hell until my people came along. 

They might not have had any real expectation of winding up on the ballot this year, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t wish for it with all the pure luminous desire of Ralphie wishing for a Red Ryder BB gun.

Naw… Most of them aren’t that naive. Old authors know that now they don’t have a shot unless they do something to suck up to one of the insider cliques, and new authors only have a chance if they happened to personally appeal to one of the insider cliques. 

And one of the most noxious things about this process was watching authors silence themselves or tweak their art to be more appealing to these assholes. 

They’ve been put in a horrible position. I mean, I’ve wanted a Hugo since I was in middle school, but I dreamed of being given one by SF community, not Larry Correia.

It wasn’t me that put them in this position. It was your ilk. I’m just part of the inevitable backlash that enters any system that has become stagnant and corrupted. 

I think at least two of those nominees turned down the nomination. I hope they someday get a real one.

Yep. Out of the fifty something people we put on our slate, we failed to speak with every one of them beforehand. I truly feel bad for them, because I’ve seen what happens to unsuspecting innocent authors when they end up the target of a social justice witch hunt. 

The reason we have to talk to the people we put on our slate first is because they need to be aware that SJWs are going to rip them apart, slander them, libel them, attack them, and try to damage their careers, all because they threaten the status quo. (Teresa conveniently left that part out) 

I’m actually impressed it was that few who dropped off. 

Note, she hopes they someday get a *real* nomination. Because you guys, the hundreds of you that shelled out your money to buy a membership? You don’t count. You’re not *real* fans. And your opinions are wrong and bad.  

Third: the ballot itself. This grows out of wondering why so many Sad Puppies are suddenly out and about on forums they don’t normally frequent, belatedly spreading this new and not very believable line about how the whole Sad Puppy thing is motivated by love, rather than spite and resentment. They sure haven’t felt the need to spread this line before now. Neither have they put a lot of effort into hiding the spite and resentment.

So much bullshit crammed into one paragraph. 

1. Forums we don’t normally frequent? Not really. My people show up all over. Only your kind normally just block or “disemvowel” them. 

2. Belatedly? We’ve been saying the same thing the whole time. You assholes have just chosen to ignore what we actually say and make up bullshit in “scare quotes” for us instead. 

3. Brad showed up on your blog because you had a gang of assholes lying about his character. How DARE he defend himself. How RUDE! 

4. To be clear, Brad Torgersen has always been motivated by love. I’m the one motivated by spite. Get it right. 

5. We’ve consistently spread this line the whole time. The fact you had your head shoved up your ass isn’t my fault. But I can understand the confusion. You guys lie so much that it must be hard to keep track of which narrative you’re using about us now. 

6. Again, I’m the spiteful one. I don’t like liars and career sabotaging bullies. I suppose it is because I didn’t get to Live Life On The Easiest Difficulty Setting.

So why are they doing it now?

Because we were responding to you?  So why are you doing it now? 

When you’re nominated for a Hugo, you’re contacted ahead of time by the Hugo administrators, who check to make sure you’ll accept nomination. If they’re going to have to add the next-highest nominee in a category, they want to do it before the general public sees the ballot, so that no one knows who’s the lowest-ranked nominee.

If the SPs got all or most of their slate onto the ballot, and those people had their nominations confirmed by the Hugo administrators, and they were comparing notes behind the scenes, they’d be uniquely able to reconstruct most or all of the final ballot.

Heh heh heh… 

This part is really fascinating and revealing. Let me break it down for you. 

A few years ago I told the truth in public, and said that SMOF insiders usually knew who all the award nominees were going to be for the year, based upon how popular the authors were to the tiny insular cliques, and they usually knew this before the books came out or had been read by anyone. (hell, that even wound up in our Sad Puppies video!)   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzGKlOkQsxY

I was called a liar. There is no insider info like this! The Hugos are a sainted, pure process. They’re not predictable or manipulated by politics! There are no suggested slates or campaigns behind the scenes! How DARE you?!

Uh huh… So I did in public, in the open, with a bunch of outsiders, what they’ve been doing for years with insiders. Outrage ensues. 

So here we are now, a few days away and Teresa is worried. Why? Because as an insider, the people she already knew were SUPPOSED to get Hugo nominations haven’t been contacted… 

But if there wasn’t insider info and insider cliques, and most of the noms aren’t predestined forgone conclusions, how does she even know she’s supposed to be so worried and upset?

Whoops. 
So.

I think they’ve succeeded in f*cking up the ballot beyond all expectation, and they know the SF community is going to explode when we see it.

By SF community, she means her people. By fucking it up, she means the wrong kind of fans got involved. But regardless, her people are going to explode, because that’s what they do. They’ll rant and rave, and go into hysterical fits, and they’ll libel and slander innocent people, and make up wild accusations… You know, the usual.

But here’s the thing, Teresa. Check your privilege. Your friends aren’t entitled to win everything. Fans are fans, people’s votes are equal. Sad Puppies is about being inclusive. We want more people involved. Look at your entire thread here. It is all about being exclusive, and having the most prestigious award in sci-fi just be a little club award for you and your buddies on the approved list. 

Look at Brad Torgersen’s first comment in this thread. I couldn’t figure out what he was on about when he first posted it. Now I think it’s one big steaming pile of special pleading from start to finish, all of it intended to deflect fannish wrath when the ballot’s announced.

Naw, Brad really is a nice guy who wants sci-fi to be a big tent. He truly wants the Hugos to be a shining light on a hill. I think at times he still believes that he can reach out to elitists and sway them. He’s idealistic like that.

On the other hand, I know that internet arguing is a spectator sport. I do this to give ammo to my side and convince the undecided. I know I will never sway the perpetually outraged. I don’t even want a Hugo. I’m only involved in this now because I believe the social justice stranglehold on free speech is killing our genre. 

However, neither Brad nor I are under any delusion that anything we do will “deflect fannish wrath”.  

Whether we get one nomination or a hundred, it won’t matter. These are the same people who unleash their “fannish wrath” against anybody who steps out of line, or anybody who disagrees with them, or anybody who uses forbidden words, or anybody who tells a story they don’t like, or even their own people who say that maybe they shouldn’t be so quick to outrage.

Wrath is all you people have.

Well, Teresa, no matter what we do,  no matter what the results, we know we’re going to feel your wrath. Luckily, I’ve demonstrated to the world that your wrath is impotent. For years, authors have lived in fear of angering these Social Justice mobs. They’ve moderated their speech, self censored their art, and walked on eggshells to avoid getting burned at the stake… That’s why I hate you people, and that’s why I’ve loved exposing you for the petty, petulant, and ultimately powerless little bullies that you are. 

Your angry mobs only have as much power as the person you’re attacking is willing to grant them. I stood up to you last year, and all it did was bring your antics to the attention of more, good, decent, regular fans. It isn’t your award. It is everyone who cares enough to get involved. And every time your side forms an angry Twitter mob, or runs an article in the Guardian full of easily disprovable lies, or attacks some comedian for jokes he hasn’t told yet, or lectures people that they’re having fun wrong, then more regular fans get pissed off and shell out their $40 to get involved, because they don’t like your entitled smugness either. 

I don’t like it, but it does fit all the known data. Wouldn’t it be nice if I turn out to be wrong?

You have no idea… 

##

EDIT, Read this too. It is great:             http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/03/31/the-scarlet-letters/

Sarah Hoyt addressed the bit where they’re all mad at Brad for missing a few authors and not informing them that they were going to be on our slate.

Somehow, us failing to warn these people that SJWs are going to rip them apart for the crime of bad people liking their work, is somehow a bigger crime than the SJWs ripping them apart.

 

Sad Puppies Update: The Nominees Announced and Why I Refused My Nomination
Sad Puppies Update: Honesty from the Other Side
VD
Guest
VD
2 years 25 days ago

Your angry mobs only have as much power as the person you’re attacking is willing to grant them. I stood up to you last year, and all it did was bring your antics to the attention of more, good, decent, regular fans.

Preach, preacher! That whole section was downright INSPIRATIONAL and well worthy of the International Lord of Hate.

David L. Burkhead
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

Wrath is all they have. And with the rise of indie publishing, they are becoming more and more impotent. People are finding they don’t need them any more.

Or, as was said in a different context, “Can’t stop the signal.”

gibreaux
Guest
gibreaux
2 years 24 days ago

Love it!

You can’t take the sky from me!

Matthew
Guest
Matthew
2 years 25 days ago

All you “not real” and hateful pseudo-authors will have to console yourselves by sleeping on giant piles of money.

Speaking of which, you’re really hitting my wallet this year….

Murgy
Guest
Murgy
2 years 25 days ago

The inevitable rise in sales (especially of books that give good entertainment value) will be a complete mystery to many in Traditional Publishing. Especially when it’s not *their* house collected all the new cash.
Wonder when/if they’ll make the connection.

mousestalker
Guest
mousestalker
2 years 25 days ago

What I do not understand is why they feel the need to say these things in public. It’s all to similar to the need of lefty politicians to back gun control. They know the third rail is electrified, they know that discussion will energize far more of their opponents than their supporters and yet they still feel the need to go there. It’s clear what she was thinking. But why did she feel the need to share it?

M. Kupari
Guest
M. Kupari
2 years 25 days ago

Because they’re children, and children aren’t good at emotional subtlety.

C. S. P. Schofield
Guest
C. S. P. Schofield
2 years 24 days ago
“Because they’re children, and children aren’t good at emotional subtlety.” Nonsense; most children are capable of learning. These dolts have demonstrated again and again that they do not learn save in the lowest common denominator manner of a mimic; repeating what has been recited at them. Seriously; they show all the grasp of higher reasoning of a lower promote that has been taught, say, sign language. They can form simple sentences, usually ungrammatically (but who am I to judge), and express some crude emotions. The do not display reason, or anything but the most basic level of deductive logic. Inductive… Read more »
SteveW
Guest
SteveW
2 years 25 days ago

Because all they hear in their echo chamber is “polls say that 90% of the people support us.”

Next thing you know Andrew Cuomo goes from “presidential contender” to “punchline”

junior
Guest
junior
2 years 25 days ago

Or Howard Dean yells.

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 25 days ago
That’s a perfect example of their superficiality. I happened to be watching the news that night, BEFORE the “scream meme” started. I could tell immediately — and I was a punk teenager who didn’t know anything — that it was a noise-cancelling mike. It didn’t register except in hindsight, as people started making fun of him for it. Not on the substance of his ideas, but because he “sounded crazy.” That’s a liberal for you. It needs to FEEL right. If you’re not hitting the right FEEL, they have no use for you. Dean’s plenty crazy, but they don’t care… Read more »
SBP
Guest
SBP
2 years 23 days ago

It’s easy to do that when you delete, ban, or “disemvowel” anyone who disagrees with you.

DaveP.
Guest
DaveP.
2 years 23 days ago

It will however be hilarious to watch all of the whiners who spent the ’00 election season whinging about the “Bush family dynasty” lining up to vote for Cuomo Mark 2…

Thomas Monaghan
Guest
Thomas Monaghan
2 years 25 days ago

Because her husband and her 13 Hugo nominations in 30+ years aren’t enough.

Stephen St. Onge
Guest
Stephen St. Onge
2 years 23 days ago
Mousestalker wrote: “What I do not understand is why they feel the need to say these things in public. It’s all to similar to the need of lefty politicians to back gun control. They know the third rail is electrified, they know that discussion will energize far more of their opponents than their supporters and yet they still feel the need to go there. It’s clear what she was thinking. But why did she feel the need to share it?” I believe it’s about reaffirming their identity. The “gun control”, on both sides, is largely about what kind of person… Read more »
SF
Guest
SF
2 years 25 days ago

I love this time of year. Sad puppies is always a great end cap to another accounting busy season. Watching all these people implode is just awesome. I tip my hat to you!

Max Florschutz
Guest
2 years 25 days ago
I remember when I was a kid, I used to buy two yearly collections of Fantasy and Science Fiction stories that came out every year. Both were from a pretty big contest (it might have been writers of the future) and each year I picked up both volumes and spent the next day or so reading through them. I stopped eventually, after a few years. Not because I’d stopped enjoying sci-fi and fantasy, but because the stories had stopped being sci-fi and fantasy. Each year, the number of enjoyable stories in the collection dwindled, the rest becoming thinly-veiled social commentary… Read more »
JLawson
Guest
JLawson
2 years 25 days ago
Yeah, I gave up on Asimov’s last year – their October issue had a ‘fantasy’ story about Girl Scouts going feral, ending with one being put down by her father. WT(Everloving)F? How was that SF? Or Fantasy? As it was, it apparently was ‘good literachure’ because the imagery has stayed with me for quite a while. Certainly it stayed long enough for me to cancel my sub, and write a letter to the editor (for which I got a rather regretful reply back, they were sorry to see me go, yada yada…) and here it is months later and I… Read more »
Max Florschutz
Guest
2 years 25 days ago
Yeah, that last bit is what gets me. Someone wants to write stories like that? You know what? That’s fine. I don’t care. I respect that we each write what we enjoy, and if someone enjoys reading that, well that’s fine. But the moment that line is crossed and the writer (or their fan) insists that I am NOT a science-fiction/fantasy fan because I didn’t enjoy the story, and that I must enjoy the story or not be a real fan? Line crossed. That’s not cool. They can write those stories all they want. But offering blanket statements that summarize… Read more »
Bob
Guest
Bob
2 years 24 days ago

Wow…that sounds awesome. I’d read the heck out of a story like that…

No judgment on those who feel otherwise. Thanks for cluing me in on the story’s existance.

Kary English
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

FYI, if it was Writers of the Future, you might give it another look. I’m in the volume that comes out in about two weeks (Vol. 31), plus Martin Shoemaker (great space-faring hard SF), Scott Parkin with a cool first contact story, and lots more. David (Wolverton) Farland is the coordinating judge now, so that may have shifted what kinds of stories end up in the book.

Thomas Monaghan
Guest
Thomas Monaghan
2 years 24 days ago
M. Kupari
Guest
M. Kupari
2 years 25 days ago
As I’ve said before, I don’t really care about the Hugo Awards. It’s a prestige thing that doesn’t affect your bottom line. The number of people out there who will buy a book that they wouldn’t have bought otherwise, because that book got a Hugo, is statistically insignificant. Your cover art will drive sales a hell of a lot more than that. That said, I am enjoying the hysterics the Sad Puppies campaign is driving the social justice warrior crowd to. These are sad, screwed-up, broken people who hold inexplicably high opinions of themselves and of their little clique. It’s… Read more »
quilly mammoth
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

I think I’d use a different word after “mutual”.

Matthew House
Guest
Matthew House
2 years 25 days ago

” It’s a snotty, left-wing mutual masturbation society”

Fixed It For You…

Wes S.
Guest
Wes S.
2 years 24 days ago

If the Hugos are ever liberated from the clutches of the SJWs…that poor rocket is gonna need a LOT of disinfecting. IYKWIMAITYD.

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

Wes, that was evil.

Ted N
Guest
Ted N
2 years 24 days ago

Emotional level of a fourteen year old?

I’d say you’re being pretty generous. This “disemvoweling” business is the saddest, most immature thing I’ve seen in a long time.

The Oort Cloud
Guest
The Oort Cloud
2 years 18 days ago
Actually, the “disemvoweling” thing, insofar as leftist-dominated blogs/discussion groups/etc are concerned, has been around at least since the old FIDONET/Usenet days. (Yes, I know this dates me…:) Almost without notable exception the SJW run groups will always “kick and ban”, as it used to be called, anyone whose posts do not fit the “approved” SJW meme, and it has been ever thus. Their (the SJWs) problem is that their positions are invariably based on lies, half truths and vacuous emotionalism. The average conservative shows up, armed only with facts and logic, and allowed a level playing field, will crush them… Read more »
Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C
2 years 21 days ago

some weird, mirror universe, bizarro world […] where the nerds and geeks are the ones forming cliques and telling others they’re not cool enough.

Been there, lived through that. It’s called MIT. [ducks]

ratseal
Guest
ratseal
2 years 25 days ago

Brightest part of the day so far. Most of TNH’s spiritual allies are sitting this out so far. It will be interesting when a smoother approach is tried.

If Larry got Scalzi so exercised that he did the ALL CAPS PAROXYM OF ORGIASTIC GLEE thing last year merely by getting some works nominated, imagine what we have to look to forward from Scalzi this year!

James May
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

They know the tide is turning. I listened to a podcast yesterday with 2 transgender, a lesbian and a manic feminist. In the past, they’ve been the source of endless and really insulting gripes about whites and men. I mean some really filthy and hostile innuendoes. They were on their best behavior.

Here’s the problem: you can’t fisk your own quotes or make up quotes and conspiracies that don’t exist.

SteveW
Guest
SteveW
2 years 25 days ago

1) It’s an open question whether Scalzi believes what he says, or if he weather vanes to maintain popularity and influence. I took a look at Whatever and he’s very quiet on this. Makes one go “huh”

2) I see on Whatever that there’s a new Travis Taylor novel! Why, I ask, do I need to learn this from _Scalzi_? Where are you folks when I need you? 🙂

Derrick
Guest
Derrick
2 years 19 days ago

Scalzi is a true believer. However he’s trying to move from sci-fi writing to tv writing and he doesn’t want to post anything that’s going to get him in trouble with any media company. He’s at no risk for continuing his little game but he’s excessively cautious.

Khazlek
Guest
Khazlek
2 years 25 days ago
Teresa Nieslsen Haden wrote: If the SPs got all or most of their slate onto the ballot, and those people had their nominations confirmed by the Hugo administrators, and they were comparing notes behind the scenes, they’d be uniquely able to reconstruct most or all of the final ballot. In the same thread Patrick Nielsen Hayden wrote: * Regarding Best Novel: I’ve heard that three of the five finalists are SP-endorsed. (Which, see above, doesn’t in itself guarantee that any of them are unworthy of a Hugo.) I don’t know what any of those three books are. I do know… Read more »
Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

It’s a bad thing for anyone ELSE to reveal who the nominees are. They, however, are pure of heart.

Ted N
Guest
Ted N
2 years 24 days ago

So, they’re trying the old, RULES DON’T APPLY TO US, PEASANT!, I see.

That’s an odd approach they’re taking, Cotton, let’s see how it plays out.

Guest
Steve Poling
2 years 25 days ago

What’ll you bet some SJW will see the first comment was authored by VD and start frothing at the mouth, thinking, “it’s him. it’s him. i know it. i’d recognize those initials anywhere.”

SteveW
Guest
SteveW
2 years 25 days ago

He’d have gotten away with it, if it weren’t for those meddling Hadens and their dog too.

TXRed
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

Whenever this topic pops up at ThePassiveVoice blog, “Inigo Montoya” chimes in to complain about no one distancing themselves from Vox Day and that so long as he’s involved the rest of us should be ignored/scolded/ ashamed of ourselves or something.

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
2 years 24 days ago

Sounds like Clamps. He’s been beating that drum on Brad’s site for the last couple days until Brad tossed him out.

I have noticed that ever since Vox reported him, he’s been using SJW buzzwords and accusations of harassment, swatting, and the like instead of just arguing like a contrary two-year-old.

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 23 days ago
Clamps has been doing that ALL OVER THE INTERNET as far as I can tell, at least from when he’s mentioned me a few times – Example in the comments. It’s almost copy-paste the same thing I spotted over in Brad’s blog before it got spamhammered. Clamps is also trying to portray me as a male misogynist anti-gay bigot over at Fundies Say The Darndest Things. Because Mr. I Threaten Children With Death for Mom’s Political Views is keen to try erase that past of his AND gain support. Hence the SJW buzzwords. (Notably it backfired badly on him the… Read more »
Kristophr
Guest
Kristophr
2 years 22 days ago

Vox got him tagged for cybercrime for his use of multiple accounts to evade blocking.

Clamps has a court order to stp posting anything, period.

He’s courting a prison term now, judges are unamused at tards that violate court orders.

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest
2 years 22 days ago

Clamps is also trying to portray me as a male misogynist anti-gay bigot over at Fundies Say The Darndest Things.

MALE? Has he actually come to believe this, or is he deliberately lying? And if the latter, a LOT of people know you’re female … has anyone mentioned this yet on there?

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 23 days ago

He was briefly “Nick Furious” over at Brad’s, until he was spamhammered.

James May
Guest
2 years 25 days ago
Wow, so much has changed in a year. And I have some bad news for these gender feminist dingbats: we haven’t even really marshaled all our forces. Secondly, there is no way to present quotes about marginalizing the “underrepresented” from us that don’t exist or hiding your own mountain of racist supremacist quotes. There are open and public quotes that point to collusion or outright admit they won’t deal with literature by straight white men. On the other hand, the idea straight white men have ever conspired to do that is a straight up lie. I have yet to see… Read more »
Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

I love pointing out to them that I’m an Approved Minority. I’m handicapped. Regular people are like “who cares?” as long as I’m doing reasonably okay. SJWs get headsplodey as they try to reconcile my politics with my wheelchair, which is hilarious. But K. Tempest Teacup says I’m an approved minority for her challenge!

James May
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

You would technically qualify as rebel scum who’s been brainwashed in some unspecified manner but which they are sure of.

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

Don’t I know it. I was laughing at the Pat Carrigan fans who said that no one was allowed to disagree with her because she has a chronic illness. Hey, I get that cancer is bad, and I don’t have cancer . . . but I’m wondering why they haven’t been so considerate with MY chronic illnesses? ‘Cause I have more than one.

Oh, right. I think bad and have fun wrong.

James May
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

“Oh, I agree.” – Deckard in Blade Runner

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

I’m diabetic. Up is down, black is white, and the Law of Gravity is merely an unsupported opinion. Dare anyone disagree with me? 😉

Richard McEnroe
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

I’ve got a grossly enlarged heart and am strapped to a portable defibrillator pending surgery. Should I tell the people I online game with they aren’t allowed to shoot back at me because I might get stressed and drop dead at the keyboard? Doesn’t seem sporting somehow.

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 24 days ago
Normally, I find arguing with liberals to be like shooting an unarmed man. Still, like the unarmed man, if they’re left screaming and shouting and charging at people, eventually they’re going to do real damage. Not a lot of victory in it, except on occasion when I set up a particularly amusing trap. (As I did on the Pat Cadigan thread. We were being told by a fan — who was dropping f-bombs — that we were being horribly insulting. So I insulted her . . . using a copy-and-paste of Pat Cadigan’s own insults. She fell for it.) Instead,… Read more »
Matthew
Guest
Matthew
2 years 24 days ago

Depends – will the half-second hesitation give you time to line up a headshot?

Richard McEnroe
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

Don’t think it’s not a temptation. The way I pilot a Battlemech I need every edge I can get.

Stephen St. Onge
Guest
Stephen St. Onge
2 years 22 days ago

“I’m diabetic. Up is down, black is white, and the Law of Gravity is merely an unsupported opinion. Dare anyone disagree with me? ;-)”

I asked a diabetic. She said you’re wrong about all three.

Doqz
Guest
Doqz
2 years 25 days ago

Standard Marxist stand-by explanation of actual human behavior refusing to conform to their beautiful theory – False Consciousness.

It’s hasn’t gone out of style. See “What’s the Matter with Kansas” for one of the latest iterations.

And the tune remains the same…

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest
2 years 22 days ago

“False Consciousness” is one of the most arrogant sociological arguments possible. It essentially argues that others are deluded regarding their own true interests and that the arguer thus has a superior right to decide for them what they should do. It’s also unfalsifiable in the Popperian sense — and hence nonsensical.

Stephen St. Onge
Guest
Stephen St. Onge
2 years 21 days ago
Jordan S. Bassior, on April 2, 2015 at 11:05 pm said: “ ‘False Consciousness’ is one of the most arrogant sociological arguments possible. It essentially argues that others are deluded regarding their own true interests and that the arguer thus has a superior right to decide for them what they should do. It’s also unfalsifiable in the Popperian sense — and hence nonsensical.” Quite true, of course, but it serves important purposes. The argument, which goes back to Rousseau at least, allows the person deploying it to justify do evil on the ground that he’s doing good. It covers his… Read more »
Synova
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

Try being female.

Okay… maybe female isn’t much more head ‘splody than being handicapped for rational people, but you still get that “what is wrong with you!” reaction from the group-identity sorts.

Imagine what it’s like to be someone at the very top of the Approved Minority pyramid and not being in compliance with how other people have decided you’re supposed to think.

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

I don’t get the rage kind of headsploding. It’s like Norman the android in “I, Mudd” after being informed that logic is wreath of pretty flowers that smell bad. I swear I’ve smelled smoke a time or two.

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

*snort* The very fact that they have no problems putting the same ‘protected’ minorities they scream about into their sights the MOMENT those people dare express opinions mildly out of line of the Approved Message is constantly on display.

It’s interesting to watch the SJWs backpedal HARD once they realize they’re being set up to harass a minority woman by a white man known as a misogynistic stalker though.

Stephen J.
Guest
Stephen J.
2 years 23 days ago

“Read this, she’s gay. Read this, he’s PoC. Read this, Women!!”

Whatever happened to just saying, “Read this, it’s great!”?

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

Badthink? Or ‘not good enough’ a reason in their checklist?

Kristophr
Guest
Kristophr
2 years 22 days ago

Enjoying works by non-protected class authors is wrongfun, dontcha know?

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest
2 years 22 days ago

Not only that, but by promoting low-talent writers just because they happen to be non-white, female, or gay and AGREE with the SJW’s (the most important qualification) they are giving non-white and gay writers a bad reputation among fans. (They would be doing this for women too, except that it’s usually obvious when a writer’s female and there are too many famous female sf writers in the field, from its very beginnings, for them to do much damage in this regard).

quilly mammoth
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

As time goes more and more of their deceit and lies are exposed. For example the trope that campaigns never happened before. I saw it, on line, starting in 1986. I’ll bet, if one searches deep in the archives of rec.arts.sf.written you’d campaigns by some of the very whiners we see now…for their favorite LibProg.

Book
Guest
Book
2 years 25 days ago

This person’s arrogance has no limit. “This grows out of wondering why so many Sad Puppies are suddenly out and about on forums they don’t normally frequent…”

No- this grows out of why you’re suddenly deigning to notice the rabble.

In other words “What are all these peasants doing here?? Have there ALWAYS been so many of them? Where did they all come from!?”

Synova
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

There’s a certain level of… emboldenment… involved. I’m not very brave. Less brave in real life. A little bit more brave (but not all that much so) on the internet. Used to being somewhat covert… sitting on my hands… keeping my mouth shut… not making waves.

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

You’re welcome to ride ours. 🙂

junior
Guest
junior
2 years 24 days ago

That’s part of the reason why things like Sad Puppies are so important. They show people like you that you’re not alone, and that there are a lot of other people out there who share at least some of your values.

M. Kupari
Guest
M. Kupari
2 years 25 days ago

Also, what is up with these people’s fascination with Doctor Who? You’d think they’d be complaining that the character has been played by a white man since the 1960s.

junior
Guest
junior
2 years 25 days ago

I’ve seen suggestions that an upcoming incarnation of the Doctor should be a woman. I don’t know how seriously anyone in power is taking that idea, though.

JLawson
Guest
JLawson
2 years 25 days ago

It’s the DOCTOR. We’re talking about an alien – how do we know that he ISN’T his species female-equivalent?

I’m recalling that scene where Missy put the liplock on Capaldi to ‘transfer information’. Could it be that for Time Lords gender roles are reversed? (Which would really put his time with Romana on a different level.) Now that the Master is Missy, the Master is acting on long-suppressed feelings?

Grief. The slash fic could get really wierd really fast…

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

One of the hilarious things about the SF SJW is that they ted to rate the color of a character’s skin as more important than his species.

Richard McEnroe
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

Unless Capaldi punches a producer, not very.

Sara the Red
Guest
Sara the Red
2 years 21 days ago

And since everything I’ve ever read/seen/heard about Capaldi is that he is one of the sweetest people you could hope to meet, that ain’t likely…

Jared Anjewierden
Guest
Jared Anjewierden
2 years 21 days ago

There is already a video going around of Capaldi in character answering a 9yolds letter (about the death of his grandmother I believe) in a very sweet way. Certainly seems like a nice guy.

Insectress
Guest
Insectress
2 years 25 days ago

Because it’s BBC and therefore already politically correct, and because the new doctors are soooo cuuuute! (<– that was hyperbole)

James May
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

UNEXPECTED SHOCKING SURPRISE SO TRIGGER YOUR WARNINGS!!!

SFF author Sophia McDougall on casting the new Dr. Who TV show: “…would honestly have thought it had reached the point where it was simply *embarrassing* to cast another white man.”

“yup, I agree. Outstanding actor, but still leaves a sour taste in the mouth.” – Hugo and Nebula winner Aliette de Bodard.

I got a million of ’em. Hachacha.

Khazlek
Guest
Khazlek
2 years 25 days ago

They do that very thing quite a bit.

Sara the Red
Guest
Sara the Red
2 years 24 days ago
Oh, believe me, they have been complaining for the last two Doctors. Now, I personally think it might be fun if they decide to cast the Doctor as a woman, or a non-white guy. But that shouldn’t be the reason for doing so–the reason for doing so ought to be because the actor/actress is just perfect for the role. I *loved* the Master becoming Missy because the actress was one of the best Large Ham, scenery-chewing villains I’ve seen in a long time. She was great in the role–but I’d put it down to her abilities as an actor, not… Read more »
Jared Anjewierden
Guest
Jared Anjewierden
2 years 24 days ago

This is why the next Doctor should be Idris Elba. Has nothing to do with him being black and everything to do with him being FREAKING IDRIS ELBA.

That it will get the identity politics people to shut up about it for a bit is an added bonus, but not even the tertiary reason for casting him.

SFF Jay
Guest
SFF Jay
2 years 24 days ago

That is one of the reasons I am hesitant about a Doctor picked based off of identity politics. The SJWs won’t shut up.

Anything negative ever said during their tenure as the Doctor will be negated because of racism, sexism, whatever other -ism can be lobbed. Or that the cisgendered white males are mad that “they’re losing their privilege”.

It can’t simply be because a given episode’s writing was lacking or what have you… it must be SEXISM! RACISM! HOMOPHOBIA!

Blah.

Lea
Guest
Lea
2 years 24 days ago
Anything negative ever said during their tenure as the Doctor will be negated because of racism, sexism, whatever other -ism can be lobbed. This kind of thing has made reading online commentary about various shows such a pain! If you are watching, say, The Flash and you say somehting about Iris, you aren’t just unhappy with one little thing a character did, everything is racist and misogynist, etc..etc… and if THEY aren’t happy with something about the character than its the writers who are the racists, hate women, etc. It is so, so tiresome. I just want to talk about… Read more »
Sara the Red
Guest
Sara the Red
2 years 24 days ago
Exactly! This is also why when, I saw someone suggest casting Idris Elba as Commander Vimes for the Watch tv series I went “Oooh! Hadn’t thought of him, but that would be AWESOME.” Because Idris Elba is all the badass. I also loved the guy who played the Marquis de Carrabas in the Neverwhere miniseries back in ’95 or so, and thought he’d make a great Doctor (and then Gaiman admitted he’d had the Doctor in mind when he wrote de Carrabas…) Again, don’t care about the skin color–they’re just awesome actors. They could be purple with orange polkadots, and… Read more »
SBP
Guest
SBP
2 years 23 days ago

“I also loved the guy who played the Marquis de Carrabas in the Neverwhere miniseries back in ’95 or so, and thought he’d make a great Doctor”

Paterson Joseph. A fine actor, and he would indeed make a great Doctor.

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 23 days ago
Skin color isn’t why I adore actors like Morgan Freeman and Samuel L. Jackson and Idris Elba, or James Earl Jones, Anthony Hopkins, Robert Downey Jr., or any number of other actors whose work I like. I like them because they’re AWESOME. I enjoyed Lucy Liu’s role as O-Ren Ishii not because she’s Asian or female, but because she was fantastic in playing that character. I wasn’t particularly fond of Tom Cruise’s work for a while but he’s gotten better so he’s now on the “Oh hey, he did this, let’s watch it” list. I cheerfully picked up a movie… Read more »
James May
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

I’d like to see Idris Elba play Charlie Chan

gingeroni
Guest
gingeroni
2 years 23 days ago

correia45> That’s because Idris Elba should get all of the roles.

Looking at imdb, Idris IS getting all the roles. He’s currently in 9 different projects including Avengers, Jungle Books and Star Trek.

Jared Anjewierden
Guest
Jared Anjewierden
2 years 23 days ago

He’s going to be in Trek.

Happy Dance Time!

Richard McEnroe
Guest
2 years 21 days ago

Yeah, but Vimes is a badass whose inner non-badass stands on his neck with a pair of poor man’s boots to keep him sane and in line. Much like Granny Weatherwax is a “bad witch by inclination and a good witch by decision.” Both of them are determined to do good in the worst way…and frequently do.

Sara the Red
Guest
Sara the Red
2 years 24 days ago

And, of course, there’s the sad fact that at *least* every other NuWho episode has some SJW message or other snuck in. Some are a bit more heavy handed than others.

I still love Doctor Who, though, even if I’ve started rolling my eyes more frequently than I’d like at the weekly SJW-Approved ™ messages…

Richard McEnroe
Guest
2 years 21 days ago

I did like Danny Pink’s last speech.

S1AL
Guest
S1AL
2 years 24 days ago

The Doctor is, frankly, too exceptionally and overtly masculine (especially for British television) to have the role go to a woman. Non-white, sure, but I’m not sure there *are* Timelords of the swarthier variety… I certainly don’t recall any.

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

There have been some black (oh, sorry, SJWs . . . that should be “African-British”) actors playing Time Lords in recent years. I’m also told there was one back in the Sixth Doctor story “Trial of a Time Lord,” but that’s one of the few I’ve missed. (I’m a 20th-century fan myself. Tom Baker was my first Doctor, via reruns.)

junior
Guest
junior
2 years 24 days ago

The correct term is “British African-American”.

I can’t believe how ignorant you stupid colonialist pigs are!

ftumch
Guest
ftumch
2 years 23 days ago

The correct term is Afro-Caribbean.

So there.

junior
Guest
junior
2 years 23 days ago

Nope. It’s (non-US nation of origin) African-American, as actually used by the members of the US press.

I only wish I were joking…

S1AL
Guest
S1AL
2 years 23 days ago

I stand corrected. Granted, I was to young to watch the original run, so if they were prior to 9 I wouldn’t have seen many of them.

Sara the Red
Guest
Sara the Red
2 years 24 days ago

I dunno. I’d have told you a year ago the Master couldn’t possibly be played by a woman for the same reasons. And then they cast Michelle Gomez as Missy, and she has come very close to beating out the original Master (Roger Delgado) in my books as the very best of the Masters. I think it could work with the Doctor, too, if they cast as brilliantly. But again–it comes down to something that has zip to do with identity politics! 🙂

Richard McEnroe
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

Yeh, but you can’t tell me the last two weren’t gay as old Paree…

Chris
Guest
Chris
2 years 25 days ago

Commenting to subscribe again. Not sure what happened, but can’t get the posts in email anymore.

trackback

[…] often tend to shoot themselves in the foot. And the latest open volley has, as of this morning, seen its arguments countered, point for point. So, what do I think of all […]

Joe
Guest
Joe
2 years 25 days ago

You know, I’ve got several friends-of-friends who have complained in recent years about how little they like science fiction these days and how there aren’t any more good stories. They went on and on about how the stories just aren’t as captivating or entertaining as they used to be from when they remembered reading science fiction growing up.

Turns out they’ve been mostly reading ‘those’ kind of science fiction novels. You know the ones. Hugo Award Winning novels.

Lea
Guest
Lea
2 years 25 days ago

I looked down the list of recent noms/winners in the novel category and aside from the grrm and jk Rowling stuff, the only other one I had on my shelf was Jonathan strange and mr norell. Which sounded good in theory but actually was pretty mediocre since I haven’t bothered to retread it.

I also read the hand maids tale but it was preachy dreck.

SFF Jay
Guest
SFF Jay
2 years 24 days ago

I used to go the bookstore and buy stacks of books. Then about 5-10 years ago, I just stopped. The last dozen books I bought were all duds. Ever since then, I get books from the library first, then buy what I like after a first read.

And I couldn’t tell you the background on most authors I like, just that the books are good.

Michael Z. Williamson
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

Yeah, I slipped, due to a bad email, and rather than anyone tell me I’d made a faux pas, they all apparently went shitzo (sic) on Twitter.

A friend told me of the error, I pulled the posts, and told the committee. They said no harm no foul, so I have no idea where this Empress Teresa or whoever gets off saying I’m some sort of villain. Who put them in charge?

And of course, by them promoting it on whatever blog she blogs on, they did the same thing I did, only with foreknowledge of the error.

Chris Scena
Guest
Chris Scena
2 years 25 days ago

So since I will get your Hugo nominated work for free, I guess I will have to go out and buy another work of yours, simply to give the finger to The Toad and her kind.

PavePusher
Guest
PavePusher
2 years 25 days ago

Their heads are made of Ironeous Impervium.

Let the jokes fly.

Richard McEnroe
Guest
2 years 21 days ago

Impervium is a useful mineral, and expensive. Their heads are made from much cheaper and more common Densite.

SDN
Guest
SDN
2 years 20 days ago

Calling them dense is an insult to gravity.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 25 days ago

“Empress Theresa”. Heh. 😀

SteveW
Guest
SteveW
2 years 25 days ago

Over on FB, on a Brad thread, someone proposed “Grand SMOF Haden.” I admit to really liking that one.

Suburbanbanshee
Guest
Suburbanbanshee
2 years 24 days ago
She’s not a SMOF. Smofs are those hardworking people who somehow manage to herd cats and get ducks in a row, for long enough to run a convention. Most of them are proud not to be big names. Teresa Nielsen Hayden used to be a “profan,” but since she is now unemployed, she is a BNF (Big Name Fan). Some BNFs are benevolent and helpful folks, and are famous for that. Others… not so much. You can usually tell which ones are the obnoxious ones by whether they are embarrassed to be thought of as famous; or at least, which… Read more »
Richard McEnroe
Guest
2 years 21 days ago

Being a Big Name Fan, in the greater scheme of things, ranks right up there with being the world’s most famous Seminole War Re-Enactor.

But, as with squabbles among academics, “their fights are so bitter because the rewards are so small.”

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

no idea where this Empress Teresa or whoever gets off

Well, if nothing else, I’m not the only one who mentally auto-corrected to “Empress Theresa”.

Wes S.
Guest
Wes S.
2 years 24 days ago

I’m preferring “Saint Teresa,” myself. That certainly sums up HER opinion of herself, anyway…

😉

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 22 days ago

Oh, I was thinking more of the atrocity to the art of storytelling Empress Theresa, not any actual historical personage, by …uhm, I forget the name. Sorry. Lack of sleep, I’m afraid.

junior
Guest
junior
2 years 24 days ago

Empress Maria-Theresa, were she to rise from her tomb, would no doubt have a few choice words to say regarding this pretender to her title.

TXRed
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

Oh heck yes. Maria-Theresa ran an empire, fought off Fredrick of Prussia, and had a dozen or so kids. I highly doubt that the former editrix could manage a tenth of that.

SBP
Guest
SBP
2 years 23 days ago

Don’t forget “still appears on newly-minted coins to this day”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Theresa_thaler

Stephen St. Onge
Guest
Stephen St. Onge
2 years 21 days ago

Who put them in charge, Mike? YOU did. Because you REALLY agree with them DEEP DOWN. Thinking you disagree is just your false consciousness preventing you from seeing that you agree with the general will.

quilly mammoth
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

So dreary reading the end of the aforementioned thread I see the idea coming up that the only way to stop Sad Puppies is to limit voting to attending members. That ship is going down fast!

PavePusher
Guest
PavePusher
2 years 25 days ago

IIRC, Larry also predicted that back in SP-1 or -2….

junior
Guest
junior
2 years 25 days ago

Two issues with that.

First is that fewer people buy memberships – since there’s now no reason to do so – which means less money flowing into the coffers.

Second is that the only real way to limit voting to attending members is to do the nominating and the voting within a day or two of each other. That has a ton of logistical issues that would probably make it impractical.

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 25 days ago
That’s not really a problem. The nominations could still take place online, because anyone who was a member the previous year can nominate for the next year. You just need to be a CURRENT member to vote in the CURRENT year. However, I’m sure they wouldn’t find it to be even a slight problem to do what you describe, since they already have everything planned out ahead of time. Why bother with the public awards when it’s clear that they really want a private group? It’s hilarious, because their voting system is really quite excellent. Their problem is that they… Read more »
Craig
Guest
Craig
2 years 24 days ago

Sasquan had an extra 718 supporting memberships between Dec. 21 and Jan. 31; 1765 in all.

Source:
http://file770.com/?p=20801

Comments indicate Loncon had 1078 supporters at the same time last year.

If half of all the supporters buy memberships in order to nominate or vote, you end up with (1765*.5*40=) $35,300.

Be interesting comparing with typical worldcon budgets and profits, as an exercise I’m too lazy to personally do.

Michael Z. Williamson
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

IIRC, the last one I attended had a final budget of $270K. But, I may be totally misremembering.

kerani
Guest
kerani
2 years 21 days ago

If both of you are correct, that’s a 10% increase. That’s not nothing.

keranih
Guest
keranih
2 years 21 days ago

If both of you are correct, that’s a 10% increase. That’s not nothing.

Craig
Guest
Craig
2 years 21 days ago

Googling a bit turns up:

http://file770.com/?p=20286

“The financial review came during a Loncon 3 post-mortem held at Smofcon 32 in December with co-chair Steve Cooper, division heads Helen Montgomery and Eemeli Aro, deputy division head Theresa (TR) Renner, and adviser Vincent Docherty. They distributed a handout at the session that summarized total income at £939,393.77 and expenses at £938,475.33, leaving an estimated surplus of £918.44 (a little less than US$1500).”

Ed Powell
Guest
Ed Powell
2 years 25 days ago

Don’t be fooled, the SJWs will try to remove nomination ability from supporting members. They didn’t succeed this year, but they will be back. It may take a few years, but this challenge to their authority will not go unpunished.

Mike Mike
Guest
Mike Mike
2 years 25 days ago

As a voting supporter of the Sad Puppies 2 and 3 campaign (didn’t know about the inaugural Sad Puppies), I can say it is the best money I have spent in decades. The pure entertainment from just reading the responses is wonderful but I also truly believe the authors it supports is great. Can’t wait for SP 4 and beyond! .

Bruce
Guest
Bruce
2 years 25 days ago
I wouldn’t mind seeing a Social Justice Hugo for most progressive politics in SF. Why not? Some people have enough appetite for the stuff to develop good taste in which ones are good and bad. I’d very much like to see a Trad Hugo Gernsback for stories in the tradition of Hugo Gernsback (I liked reading ‘124C41+’, once), Poul Anderson, Heinlein, Niven, Zelazny. People with no appetite for this stuff will not develop any good taste for which is good or bad. An Action Hugo, so people who can tell a good fight scene from a bad. As it is,… Read more »
Thomas Monaghan
Guest
Thomas Monaghan
2 years 24 days ago

I read Ancillary Justice and I thought it was a little dry but an ok novel. Little did I know!

James May
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

“Ann Leckie ‏@ann_leckie Mar 29 You’re telling me how there has to be a narrative reason for a genderless character and I am totally listening and not just rolling my eyes”

An actual writer wrote that. Why not just have Turkish Sultans and cavemen stroll into the scene?

Sarah Hoyt
Guest
Sarah Hoyt
2 years 23 days ago

Jaysus, May, get with the program. That’s Turkish Othered People of Power and cavepeople. 😛
(And yeah, I agree on the essentials. If something that big is just a gimmick, don’t do it.)

James May
Guest
2 years 21 days ago

I don’t get these people at all. They can’t figure out the difference between a white man and an everyman. In their mind, “Doc” Smith and Asimov ideologically populated their worlds with white men and SJWs never get tired of saying so. Narrative is what it is. If you’re a minority that’s the unpleasant fact. I’m not likely to see myself in kung-fu movies if I live in Hong Kong and I’m not going to start lighting them all up as racists immune to diversity.

keranih
Guest
keranih
2 years 20 days ago

Agreed. It was a quite decent space opera novel – dang slow, but still decent. The gender-erasing language was interesting, but not, imo, as much as the under-developed issues of post-war occupation and time-lagged culture shifts.

Synova
Guest
2 years 24 days ago
A crit group member once told me I did better military science fiction than David Weber. Or… something sort of like that. It’s absolute pure foolishness, of course, though I got such a kick out of it that it still gives me the warm fuzzies. Realistically, what it was was… he bounced off Weber. He found my short story, for whatever reason, more accessible. Probably because it was LESS military. Nothing wrong with that. I bounce off some stuff published as military science fiction because it entirely ignores the necessary structure and organizational realities and I know it does. (My… Read more »
Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 24 days ago
My favorite is when someone says David Weber does hard science fiction. *snort* It’s hard to find a part of the Honorverse physics that’s immersed in normal physics. His most common sciency element is detailing acceleration, and few people actually calculate out exactly how fast the ships are going and how they’d blow through any star system a lot faster than indicated. Just about everything else besides inertia is fictional physics. He didn’t even give a fudgy explanation for the “gravity propagates faster than light” thing until book 11. What he does is be consistent. Good worldbuilding, good characters. The… Read more »
A.Nagy
Guest
A.Nagy
2 years 24 days ago
He also accurately plots out the battles and if you follow what orders are being given along with the time stamps the ships are indeed at the correct distance away at all times and don’t massively overshoot or undershoot. Plus if you read the side material the right amount of hits are normally scored based off the angle the ships are at missles/counter missles and all the other nonsense if you start plugging in the numbers. You don’t see hit patterns on like the 6th-7th deviation off because plot reasons. So yes it’s internally consistent and very much so.
Ted N
Guest
Ted N
2 years 22 days ago

I’ve only read a few of his, but that was one aspect I really liked.

ravenshrike
Guest
ravenshrike
2 years 22 days ago

I was unaware that the Honorverse presented Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity as axiomatic to its internal physics. In point of fact, the mere existence of grav waves themselves would seem to rule out GR as indicative of the speed of gravity

Sara the Red
Guest
Sara the Red
2 years 24 days ago

Honestly, Weber is the sort of MilSF I don’t much care for. I liked the early Honor books all right, but quickly got bored with the others, and I actually came close to throwing “Out of the Dark” across the room (and the only reason I didn’t was because it was my shiny new Kindle). But I also think that, as with most things, there are differing flavors of the ‘same’ genre that appeal to different folks. 🙂

Synova
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

Re: Out of the Dark

I enjoyed it, but really want to know 2 things…

First… who he was drinking with, and
Second… what were the *precise* terms of the bet.

Sara the Red
Guest
Sara the Red
2 years 23 days ago
I was fine with some of the absurd plot bits in Out of the Dark (though having lived in Romania, I was a bit irked at the fact that, in the book, it was apparently nothing but fog…) What made me give up on the book was entire chapters that were nothing but gushing over the hardware specs and that had pretty much no action at all. It got very boring, very fast. (I’m fine if someone wants to include stuff like the gun porn–what I’m not fine with is the gun porn taking the place of actual plot action.)… Read more »
Synova
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

(SPOILERS)

So… you gave up on the book BEFORE finding out that vampires destroyed the alien invaders?

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 23 days ago

Would have worked better as a short story. Getting to the punchline faster would have made it much more palatable.

Sara the Red
Guest
Sara the Red
2 years 23 days ago

Actually, I knew about the vampire going in. That’s why I picked it up, even though I wasn’t a big Weber fan.

I think it would have worked far better if it had been a short story too–and Vlad should have been the protagonist and POV character, not a million-and-one entirely identical/interchangeable nobodies. I’d love to see a vampire vs. aliens…but only if it’s done well and interestingly, and that one, sadly, was not.

(But as prolific as Weber is, the man is surely allowed a stinker or two in his repertoir!)

Wes S.
Guest
Wes S.
2 years 22 days ago

As I recall, “Out of the Dark” first appeared in novella form, in an anthology edited by George R.R. Martin (“Warriors?”). I’ve read that version as well as the novel-length one, and I thought the story worked much better as a novella. For certain values of “work.”

@Synova: I dunno who Weber was drinking with, but I suspect the bet was something along the lines of “Wanna bet I can turn ‘Plan Nine From Outer Space” into a bestselling novel, based on my name alone?”

😛

Thomas Monaghan
Guest
Thomas Monaghan
2 years 22 days ago

Last I talked with DW he said TOR wants a sequel. Happily it’s way down on his list. Also I believe other books have moved ahead of it. Plus the Hell’s Gate Book series is starting back up with a different co-author Joelle Presby !!!

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest
2 years 22 days ago

Not just Weber’s name, but also his talent. The story was highly enjoyable.

Wes S.
Guest
Wes S.
2 years 22 days ago

@Jordan: I thought the novel was cheesy fun, but I did regret spending the money to get it in hardcover rather than waiting for the paperback.

OTOH, you’d better believe I gladly spend the extra scratch to get all the “Safehold” and Honorverse novels in hardcover. Even if (*gack!*) the Safehold books are edited by Patrick Nielsen-Hayden and published by Tor…

Stephen St. Onge
Guest
Stephen St. Onge
2 years 21 days ago

“Would have worked better as a short story. Getting to the punchline faster would have made it much more palatable.”

It was originally a novella. TOR asked him to expand it.

Bob
Guest
Bob
2 years 24 days ago

Sounds like a neat story idea. Is it available anywhere for reading or still a WIP?

Lea
Guest
Lea
2 years 25 days ago

I like the part about ‘why are all these strange people coming here. It’s so suspicious they must be in the know’ when her whole post was about how she’s nervous because she’s in the know..

Also, it’s called a link. This is how the internet works. It’s not suspicious or complicated.

Nick Gardner
Guest
Nick Gardner
2 years 25 days ago

So, will you be adding “I Hate Straw Larry Too,” t-shirts to your Cafepress store? I want one.

ratseal
Guest
ratseal
2 years 25 days ago

Me too. Or another patch.

Patrick Chester
Guest
Patrick Chester
2 years 22 days ago

A big, bald, bearded scarecrow-like stick figure or something?

With a nasty frown, of course.

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 22 days ago

I keep imagining Straw Larry much resembling a Cactuar or a cartoon cactus though.

(Let’s see if I can doodle that, the next time I am able to sit at my Cintiq.)

ravenshrike
Guest
ravenshrike
2 years 21 days ago

Oh great, now I’ve got an image of TNH in a chainmail bikini with Cloud’s sword surrounded by dead Cactaur-Larrys and the victory music playing in the background stuck in my head. I’ll never be able to play FF7 again.

deadcenter
Guest
deadcenter
2 years 21 days ago

We’ve had bearded Spock, so we’d need beardfree Straw Larry with Thor-like locks photoshopped in for good measure.

James
Guest
James
2 years 25 days ago

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

PavePusher
Guest
PavePusher
2 years 25 days ago

“fannish wrath”

My instant mental picture was a bunch of ankle-circling yapping Chihuahua’s and Pekinese’s.

Someone do up a meme-poster for that.

Skip
Guest
Skip
2 years 25 days ago

Hey, they might be were-pikachus or something. Might be a PUFF available.

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

I’d pop were-pikas for free. But don’t tell the MCB that. PUFF’s nice too.

James May
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

“Cora Buhlert retweeted Seanan McGuire @seananmcguire · 14h 14 hours ago Hey hey hey it’s the ToC for QUEERS DESTROY SCIENCE FICTION: http://www.destroysf.com/queers-destroy-science-fiction-original-fiction-lineup/ …”

Hey, hey, hey. Fuck off.

Any gay Orwell stuff? #SegregationIsDiversity

“MichaelDamianThomas @michaeldthomas · 17h 17 hours ago So it meant something very important when the marginalized creators made it onto the Hugo ballot and WON. This is why they freaked out.”

Bullshit. Prove it instead of mindreading us into a KKK. That scare quotes bullshit is what created Sad Puppies, not fear of a black planet.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 25 days ago

Sad Puppies aren’t *real* nominations? The arrogance of these folks is absolutely astonishing, even after all this time. Holy crap? Can you imagine how they’d respond if WE said that?

Richard McEnroe
Guest
2 years 25 days ago

I’m sure we’re all heartbroken to know Teresa has been sacked from TOR…

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 24 days ago

But we’d like to know exactly why she was sacked? Was it cyberstalking, as some have claimed? Or something else?

Zsuzsa
Guest
Zsuzsa
2 years 25 days ago

Okay, as someone who’s relatively new to this whole mess, could someone tell me the meaning of SMOF?

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 25 days ago
Mary
Guest
Mary
2 years 25 days ago

Secret Master Of Fandom.

ratseal
Guest
ratseal
2 years 25 days ago

Secret Master of Fandom – old school term, variously used to describe the recurring pool of volunteers at well known cons or the group of fen who (try to) establish some cultural homogeneity in SFF (or Worldcon, more narrowly).

There is some overlap, but the two populations are not the same.

Zsuzsa
Guest
Zsuzsa
2 years 24 days ago

Ah. Thank you.

EDIT: Really? I can’t just say, “Thank you” to a poster who answered my question without the comment being flagged? There may be an overactive spam filter here…

Faceh
Guest
Faceh
2 years 25 days ago

Well Holy shit. Even without the fisking in place, I could literally *taste* the dripping elitism pouring off every one of those paragraphs. EVERY. ONE.

All three of those ‘concerns’ about the SP campaign is basically just “the wrong people going about the nomination process the wrong way (i.e. not getting approval from the central clique) and that’s bad.”

I wouldn’t be able to read through this snobbery without Larry’s commentary to add levity and for that I am thankful.

James May
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

The overweening arrogance is remarkable. They usually have this woman named Abi doing the monitoring of comments and you’d think she was Queen Elizabeth. I guess they have fun wielding power over anyone who comes there. Kinda like Scalzi and his sheep, who never look up. I mean, how far down in the world are you to look up to Scalzi and the Haydens? A frickin’ 10 yr. old Boy Scout has more value and common sense.

Suburbanbanshee
Guest
Suburbanbanshee
2 years 24 days ago

Abi is Abi Sutherland.

(Not to be confused with Ariel Cinii, whose fannish name used to be Abii Cinii, among many other iterations.)

Mary
Guest
Mary
2 years 25 days ago

Current contents of the Making List post that you linked to:

I’ve been keeping an ear on the SF community’s gossip, and I think the subject of this year’s Hugo nominations is about to explode.

Let me make this clear: my apprehensions are not based on insider information. I’m just correlating bits of gossip. It may help that I’ve been a member of the SF community for decades.

If the subject does blow up, I may write about it in this space. In any event, watch that space.

Hope we got screen captures.

John Layton
Guest
John Layton
2 years 25 days ago

Argh, couldn’t resist posting over there when I read the brainstorming session on how to manipulate votes to exclude people they don’t agree with. The nominations haven’t even been officially announced and there is already a discussion about throwing out ballots that match the SP slate, or weighting ballots that don’t more heavily. Hypocrisy pushes my buttons almost as much as condescension.

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
2 years 24 days ago

So, because people got results that they didn’t like, they’re going to destroy the integrity of the award? Wow, some animals *are* more equal than others…

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest
2 years 22 days ago

That, of course, would totally violate their charter and the posted voting rules. It MIGHT be legally-actionable, with anyone who had paid membership dues under the old rules having standing to sue.

Alex
Guest
Alex
2 years 24 days ago

Between this and a possible Crazy Left boycott of GenCon (You mean all of you radical types don’t want to come to Indiana and scold us on wrongfun? Awesome!), things are looking up for fandom.

Guest
2 years 24 days ago

Mr Correia, just as a counter to Ms. Haden’s quote: it may not have been a Hugo, but I was honored to have you give me an award. (On behalf of Baen books, sure, but you handed it over and that counts for… something).

Synova
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

Congratulations. 🙂

And also… you got to meet Larry Correia!!!!! I’ll admit that was about the biggest reason I entered the contest. 🙂

Arwen
Guest
Arwen
2 years 24 days ago

I’ll need to stock up on popcorn in order to fully enjoy the Sad Puppy proceedings.

SBP
Guest
SBP
2 years 24 days ago

“2009’s winner was sci fi author John Scalzi’s Your Hate Mail Will Be Graded: A Decade of Whatever”

For extra hypocrisy points, note that the current publisher of this book is…Tor.

It was originally published by a small press, but a quick look at Amazon will show that it’s now a Tor property.

James May
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

The wisdom of the stupid and shut in.

James May
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

The Hugos are going to change their phone number so we can’t call.

Guest
RandyGC
2 years 24 days ago

So, the basically, the message of the SJW/CHORF’s to people like me is “You suck and we hate you”.

Only, unlike the more famous purveyors of that attitude, they don’t actually produce anything I would actually pay money to own.

Wes S.
Guest
Wes S.
2 years 24 days ago
I’m hugely enjoying the caterwauling, sturm und drang by the SJWs over the Sad Puppies campaigns. I just wish I’d laid in more popcorn and whiskey, to properly enjoy the show. That said…I’m all out of fucks to give about the Hugo. Let it burn. Let the Nielsen-Haydens and their ilk run it into the ground. Decades ago, when Henry Block – founder of H&R Block – was barred from the best country clubs in Kansas City because of his Jewishness, he went and built the best country club in town…and all the people who snubbed him ended up begging… Read more »
James May
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

I agree, and make it an intersectional gender feminist-free zone. That right there is 100% of the problem.

We’ve always had personality and political conflicts, but their hate speech is beyond the bounds of civilized behavior.

Tom
Guest
Tom
2 years 24 days ago
After reading the first MHI book, I have been inspired and have decided to try my hand at a new interest and possibly new career. I plan to start small to see if I have an affinity and aptitude for the required work. Maybe I could get my feet wet by focusing initially on goblins or gremlins or something similar. Some questions: Do I need to register with the government first and get a license or something, or can I just show up at the White House with a bag full of goblin heads? Is there a listing of all… Read more »
Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 21 days ago
Licensing is not necessary, but you do need permits for your equipment. Also, if you show up at the White House, you’ll probably meet Franks eventually. He’s not a people person. Delay that meeting. There is a partial list in the MHI Employee Handbook. You can purchase your own copy here: http://www.amazon.com/Monster-International-Employee-Handbook-Roleplaying/dp/1583661468 Your expected income is one of three things. 1) Filthy emmereffer, 2) a nice severance check after you wash out in training or on your first mission, or 3) awesome death benefits for your dependents and next-of-kin. Silver bullets are only tax-deductible as a business expense. We recommend… Read more »
Expendable Henchman
Guest
Expendable Henchman
2 years 21 days ago
Disclaimer: the following are my own opinions from spending too much time thinking about MHI. I’m not Larry. Start big. The PUFF for goblins will barely cover travel expenses across town. McDonald’s pays better than Goblin PUFF. You’ll need a license first. The weaponry required for monster hunting often falls in the Type III category, and local constabulary often takes a dim view of its use within city limits. Also, you’ll need to be briefed on the entire “keep your mouth shut” protocols, or Agent Franks might drop by. You can expect to lose your starting capital, life and sanity… Read more »
Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 24 days ago
This comment from Making Light takes the all the cake there is: “#873 ::: Tired_of_Modern_Geekdom ::: (view all by) ::: March 31, 2015, 09:20 PM: It’s time to say it. Sci-Fi, along with every other geek past-time these days, has been hopelessly politicized by culture warriors. Typically reactionary culture warriors who raise a stink at the slightest percieved offense. And they are ALL AMERICAN. This is an American issue. It’s like a drinking problem. And none of you are able to keep it out of Science Fiction or the Hugos. You are throwing up all over the floor and the… Read more »
Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

Racists! 😀

I think they’d have an interesting time if WorldCon banned all Americans.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 24 days ago

Well, that would ban the vast majority of SJWs. So at least we can look forwards to their outrage over *that*.

“But we’re the GOOD Americans!”

John Cobalt
Guest
John Cobalt
2 years 24 days ago

It’s coming to the rest of the world, we see signs in both the UK and Sweden now.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 24 days ago

Empress Teresa disemvowelled Tired_of_Modern_Geekdom. They were an idiot, but that kind of heavy-handed censorship is unbecoming.

J. C. Salomon
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

Comment #873 has been dimemvoweled.

Reziac
Guest
Reziac
2 years 24 days ago

Tho I’d like to point out that a lot of this claptwaddle originated in Europe, and is still being spewed by some Europeans. Clearly it’s a contagious disorder.

James May
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

Damien Walter from the U.K. alone balances things with the weight of his bullshit.

Rob Spalding
Guest
Rob Spalding
2 years 24 days ago

He might be from the UK, but is generally thought of over here by most writers and editors I know as a bit of a bellend.

Do we have to take the blame for him?

Sarah Hoyt
Guest
Sarah Hoyt
2 years 23 days ago

A bellend? You give him credit. We think of him as a horse’s *ss.
As for the blame, blame the vile progs. We do.

Rob Spalding
Guest
Rob Spalding
2 years 21 days ago

Just for the record
Bellend:
The idiot in your group you try to stick in the corner for as long as possible and just nod at their random statements because they aren’t worth more than a grunt to make them think you’ve paid attention.
Is the member of the group most likely to be left behind in case of bear attack and will almost always protest its not their round.

SteveW
Guest
SteveW
2 years 24 days ago

Just for the record, isn’t Worldcon in Spokane, nominally part of America, this year?

Feather Blade
Guest
Feather Blade
2 years 24 days ago

Yep. Spokane, on the East side of the state of Washington, which makes it more a part of America than if it were on the Trans-Cascadian end.

I can’t help but recall Hoyt’s recent post about how Americans are the only ones who organize things like WorldCon. If that is an accurate assessment, then without Americans there wouldn’t be a WorldCon for these people to complain about Americans participating in.

Matthew
Guest
Matthew
2 years 24 days ago

So Americans aren’t supposed to come to a Con in Spokane, WA. Oookaaaayyy….

James May
Guest
2 years 21 days ago

That’s funny. On Brad’s blog I left a list of non-American asshats who drive this hysteria and was surprisingly called a racist for my trouble. But then, when aren’t we racist. In intersectional theory, I was a privileged racist the day I was born.

Ben D
Guest
Ben D
2 years 24 days ago

Question: after reading all 800+ entries at the site linked, it looks as though we can still get a supporting membership and vote for the final winners-is that correct? Because, frankly, reading the self-involved and privileged comments is really starting to aggravate me. While I didn’t join in time to nominate anyone, can I still vote and receive my complimentary bottle of SJW tears?

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

Indeed you can! In fact, we encourage it! 😀 Not only do we want the vote totals to skyrocket (hopefully in favor of good books, but either way), it will also bring in more money to WorldCon.

Why is that a good thing? Why should we throw money at a Social Fiction Warrior-dominated convention? Because capitalism, that’s why. The more money they bring in from Sad Puppies (no matter who the voter actually backs), the more incentive they have to keep things open and fair, whatever the SFWs scream.

Here’s the link: https://sasquan.swoc.us/sasquan/reg.php

Ben D
Guest
Ben D
2 years 24 days ago

Thank you! I go to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and to hear the lamentations of their wom…uhm, cis-wom…, oh the heck with it! Whichever of their 23 genders does the lamenting!

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

51 if they’re on Facebook. 😉

Matthew
Guest
Matthew
2 years 24 days ago

All of them, I think.

Diane Bekel
Guest
Diane Bekel
2 years 24 days ago

Thank you for the link! I did not realize that I could still vote, so… another vote to prevent a puppy from being sad.

John Cobalt
Guest
John Cobalt
2 years 24 days ago

A sad puppy joins the fray.

?dl=0

Luchs
Guest
Luchs
2 years 23 days ago

Heck with it, I’m in too. Thanks for the link 😀

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

Yes, thank you also! I’ll make a blog post specifically for informing that if folks want to vote for the Hugos and their favorite work is up there they can definitely still do it.

Am I reading that right though? At the very top it says:

Membership Sale April 2 (12:01 AM Pacific) to April 6 (11:59 AM Pacific)

So there’s only this week to register? O_O

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
2 years 23 days ago

It’s a reduced rate sale for attending memberships. Supporting memberships seem to be unaffected.

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

Thanks a lot! I’ll update my post

Mary
Guest
Mary
2 years 24 days ago

Also, you will able to nominate next year and so contribute to Sad Puppies 4.

Guest
Mrs John C. Wright
2 years 24 days ago
> This grows out of wondering why so many Sad Puppies are suddenly out and about on forums they don’t normally frequent, belatedly spreading this new and not very believable line about how the whole Sad Puppy thing is motivated by love, rather than spite and resentment. They sure haven’t felt the need to spread this line before now. Neither have they put a lot of effort into hiding the spite and resentment. I think this was in part due to my showing up there. What Teresa doesn’t realize is that I have been friends with Brad for years and… Read more »
Insectress
Guest
Insectress
2 years 24 days ago

Yes, I saw your reception and was confused at the lack of professionalism.

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

I saw that and they seemed to find that their lack of professionalism quite okay.

I noticed this too, actually in a different forum where Teacup Tempest was basically insulting to anyone who dared even mildly disagree. I noticed that a number of people who would otherwise agree with her in that forum said that they found it very off-putting.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 24 days ago

From Twitter:

“DamienAWalters · 4h4 hours ago
@NMamatas @kyliu99 The Sad Puppies have really gone off the deep end, haven’t they? Message fic is ok only if it’s a msg they agree with?”

PLEASE NOTE: This is a *different* Damien Walter than the one who’s been hounding us the past year. Yes, we’ve got BOTH Damiens after us now! 🙂

Matthew Bowman
Guest
2 years 24 days ago

Not to pull an SJW/SFW stunt and judge by the cover, but . . . Damien Walters looks like he/she came out of a Central Casting box marked “Transvestite, Stereotypical.” I’m sure he/she is a very nice person when he/she isn’t surrounded by badthinkers, though.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 24 days ago

Well, to be fair, they were getting info from Nick Mamatas, who is in the running to be this year’s new Damien.

James May
Guest
2 years 23 days ago

Mamatas and Walter have one thing in common: they each thought they were the new wunderkids who were going to tear up SFF and now they’ve gotten to the age where they realize that’s never going to happen.

When Mamatas is trying to ride the coattails of a movie he had nothing to do with you know he is desperate for credibility.

Sarah Hoyt
Guest
Sarah Hoyt
2 years 23 days ago
I think, honestly, that’s why they’re shouting so hard. A lot of the SJWs are women ten years younger than I who were brought into the field along with all the children of boomers and were told they were the “next big thing”. (And most of them, if writing, were writing unremarkable romancy stuff.) Now they’re hitting forty, most of them never married, almost all of them childless, and the waters haven’t parted and no heavenly choir has sung. They’re mad and it has to be someone’s fault. It can’t be the fault of those who brought them in and… Read more »