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265 Comments on "I got into a Twitter fight with Scalzi and it ended up on Twitchy"


Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Scalzi is insufferable. He’s as arrogant as Saturday is long (June 21st get it?)

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

And let me just say that that was a fun case of Whack-A-Troll. ;)

Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 1 month ago

Scalzi is blogging today about how guns aren’t good for self-defense. Strangely enough, not a single reference to the Larry Correia article that started it all, or even to Hines. Someone reading his blog who was unaware of the Great Twitter Throwdown would have no idea what prompted this.

Unlike Scalzi, I’ll provide a link ;-) :

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2014/06/19/a-former-marine-corps-weapons-instructor-on-the-desirability-of-guns-for-self-defense/

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Department of Justice apparently disagrees with Scalzi:

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/rape-sexual-violence/campus/Pages/decrease-risk.aspx

“Don’t resist, it just makes it worse,” we are told by the Left.

What a contemptible lie.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Really, that’s more about how they want you to react to their inexorable progress toward the dictatorship of the proletariat and the ultimate workers’ paradise.

Guest
Lea
1 year 1 month ago

For home defense, I doubt you’ll do better than a large dog, but I have nothing against guns either. Most of the stats I’ve seen end up including the ‘husband kills wife on purpose with their gun’ as a gun getting turned against you. That seems problematic in many ways.

And man, that linked article to the former marine is not terribly convincing.

Guest
tweell
1 year 1 month ago

I love dogs and would encourage folks to have and cherish them for many reasons, home defense among them. Still, a prepared invader can incapacitate the largest and most aggressive dog with a squirt of pepper spray or a handful of cayenne pepper. This is why you back up your best friend with a firearm.

Our dog stopped a fellow who pushed past my wife when she answered the door – he saw Luna charging and made a very quick exit. She grabbed her pistol just in case the guy came back, checked to make sure, then gave Luna the steak we were going to have for supper. A happy ending! Have the dog, but don’t depend on them to do it all.

Guest
Nicole
1 year 1 month ago

I always thought that any bad guys that break into my house would have to be touched in the head. Who would break into a house with two Great Danes? Specially since Heavy Jake Harlequin is 150lbs of “WTF are you doing at MY house” if anyone so much as knocks. At the very least a big dog buys seconds of response time.

Guest
av willis
1 year 1 month ago

Most of that article can be narrowed down to one simple word, Training. Training on how your gun works, (it also begs the question who the hell field strip their weapon before storing it under their bed,) training in how to shoot said weapon, training in weapons retention, and training on how to react to different scenarios. Guess what, most of that training can be found in the classes Larry was advocating in the first place. His point on shooting to kill and not maim was a semi-valid point, (it ignores the hundred of cases where the sudden and unannounced presence of a firearm has, in fact de-escalated the situation) as was his point of layering your home’s defenses, but other than that the whole article was just condescending poppycock.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

And the reason that John Scalzi should be listened to is, what exactly?

I mean, what particular expertise does he have that’s remotely relevant for such a thing?

Oh, that’s right. None.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I’m a military veteran, a brown belt judoka, and shooter with some small experience. What exactly are Scalzi’s credentials for use of force exactly?

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

As a veteran and man who spent the last decade studying violence and the asshole who use it to prey on others, I’ve got to say I can’t see a damn thing he’s done that qualifies him to have anything to say on it.

Guest
Chris H.
1 year 1 month ago

Larry (and his readers) 1, Scalzi 0 –Wow, like the score of a World Cup game, but far more entertaining. I defy anyone to name an instance where a shot dead rapist ever committed the crime again. Seems more effective than “Rape is naughty” from a bunch of celebs.
BTW, Nemesis was awesome, next please!

Guest
diehard316
1 year 1 month ago

I wonder how Scalzi would react if I ran his books out to the range for a few dozen rounds of .45ACP review…..

Guest

> Strangely enough, not a single reference

“Strange” – hah!

Scalzi exemplifies most of the worst traits of teenaged girls – a desire to win rather than to be right, a desire to destroy people’s reputations rather than engage with their ideas, a desire to preach to the chorus rather than engage with adversaries.

Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 1 month ago

It’s hard rto convey sarcasm in a post with adding “sarc”. ;-)

Guest
Mike
1 year 1 month ago

In truth, you can be a bit churlish, and Scalzi is a pussy…

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I think he prefers to be called a Cowardly-American.

Guest
James
1 year 1 month ago

I love the accusation that you’re being passive aggressive, Larry. Like it isn’t obvious with the MHI logo that you like smilies.

Guest
dyingearth
1 year 1 month ago

Larry is proud of being Actively Aggressive. Something his opponent found the need for trigger warning.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Honestly, is there anything about Larry that can be described as “passive”?

Guest
Eamon J. Cole
1 year 1 month ago

Well, I thought the goatee was kind of passive. Then I saw the hobo beard and I reconsidered.

:)

^^That’s for you, John!

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Fair enough.

On an unrelated note, I’m glad I’ve let my own goatee go and now have a proto-hobo beard. :D

Guest
Eamon J. Cole
1 year 1 month ago

Glad to hear it. You can’t be showing up at the patriarchy meetings in a goatee, people would talk…

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Yeah, it would be almost as bad as bringing snickerdoodles.

Guest
Eamon J. Cole
1 year 1 month ago

Yeah, only a couple of us can pull off snickerdoodles.

It’s okay, though, you’ve got the beard to offset your fondness for smooth whiskeys.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

While it’s a preference, it’s not exclusionary, just for the record. :)

Guest
Eamon J. Cole
1 year 1 month ago

Oh, the record’s clear, my friend. The record is clear.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Snickerdoodles are AWESOME!

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

But the name is impossible to take seriously. :)

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

The only thing better than smacking around a lefty douchenozzle is when the smack-around gets on Twitchy. Large audience, new readers, get paid!

Guest
Jabari
1 year 1 month ago

Haha no kidding. Check out the comments – lots of plugging of Larry’s books. Don’t know numbers of Twitchy’s views, but it has to be up there. Great new audience to be exposed to for sure.

Guest
Mike_in_Kosovo
1 year 1 month ago

lots of plugging of Larry’s books.

(innocent look)
I’m certain that I have no clue as to what you may be referring…

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I am touched by the immense irony of your detractors, Larry. Remember, this whole debate started because they attacked a woman, namely Miss Nevada. And, after attacking her, they dare insinuate that her supporters are somehow “pro-rape”.

The truth is much more sinister: yes, Scalzi and Mary Robinette Kowal are anti-rape, but they are also anti-gun, and when caught between a rock and a hard place, their anti-gun instincts trump their anti-rape ideals. So, for them, it is better that a few women get raped if it keeps guns off the streets.

I am sick and tired of people like that.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Mr. Correia, I had an enjoyable time reading the Twitchy transcript of your’s and Mr Scalzi’s Twitter battle; very entertaining. As for the word that Mr. Scalzi cited that you can be misogynistic in your word choices, he is spot on with this example. The very definition of the word,
a weak, cowardly, or effeminate man, implies the inherent weakness of being a woman and the superiority of “being a man.” As misogynist is defined as a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women, I believe Mr Scalzi to be on point. Granted you may not have given thought to this. I believe your use of language reflects the culture you were raised (and one I do not think needs to be disparaged). It does however put emphasis on “being a man” and that weakness is not tolerated, and strength lauded. As such, the term you chose is often use as a counter to that. Because of your background and for a great number of us, we often don’t think of the ramifications of using, what many would say, an innocuous word. I for one don’t believe you are a misogynist, the women characters you create are often tough, smart and resourceful. You do a very good job in helping to dispense the notion women are the weaker gender, however Mr Scalzi was correct, the word is used to imply that a man is as weak as a woman. Thank you for writing, as your books are delightful and entertaining. Even though your political views are not mine, I enjoy your work and am looking forward to reading more.

Guest
Jabari
1 year 1 month ago

Are men and women equal? (Not: “equal before the law”, but “equal in all aspects”)

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Equal in terms of what? Physical strength? Intelligence? Toughness? If it is physical strength of course not and there in lies the issue. Physical strength is not the barometer by which we should gauge which gender is superior and by using a word that is associated with weakness we still give credence to that philosophy. As for toughness, well women got men beat. Hands down.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Physical strength is not the barometer by which we should gauge which gender is superior

Did anybody say anything about superior or inferior?

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Of course not, but as a reader I inferred you were implying that men and women are not equal in all respects and the the use of the word derives from the fact that men hold a SUPERIOR edge in strength and women are then in fact weaker. Would you have been happier if I had written, “Men strong, women not as much”? So now let’s focus on my word choice and not the issue. Awesome. Plain and simple the word is misogynistic in origin. There is no getting around that. Does it imply that to use the word one is hateful towards women? No. No way. Unh uh.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I inferred

That’s on you.

BTW, care to define “toughness” in a way that’s mensurable and thus allowing for comparison to justify your claim regarding that? Or is that just rah-rah?

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Here you go: Childbirth.

Guest
jabrwok
1 year 1 month ago

I’ll see your childbirth and raise you kidney stones. I have it on good, female, authority that the latter are much more painful.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Have had kidney stones. Painful. Yet they are usual not the size of a watermelon. And you don’t consciously choose to have them, again. A lot of women have more than one child and to go through it again is awe inspiring.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Yet they are usual not the size of a watermelon.

And babies don’t generally come with sharp jagged points and edges. And the vagina is a bit larger and more elastic than the urethera.

As for “choose to have them” how many women have I heard say “you forget all the pain when you first hold your baby.” The mind has a remarkable way of “fuzzing” and distancing itself from painful events, particularly when paired with joyous ones.

But, for sake of argument, let’s ignore all that and give you everything there regarding childbirth. Childbirth is still a very specific case. The “toughness” involved in that does not appear to translate elsewhere. It doesn’t translate into carrying over a hundred pounds of gear, day after day, in 100+ degree heat, in an environment where people are trying to kill you. It doesn’t translate into keeping your legs pumping at anaerobic threshold, and maybe a bit beyond, for hours while lactic acid builds up in your muscles until every breath screams with pain. And so on and so on and so on.

Not saying women can’t have that kind of toughness but if they do the reason is not “childbirth”.

Guest
jabrwok
1 year 1 month ago

Urethras are much narrower than vaginal canals, and didn’t evolve to distend that much. You also don’t get a hormonal rush, nor a child, nor a lot of orgasms, with kidney stones.

Regardless, that’s second hand. As thewriterinblack said, childbirth (the painful part) is involuntary. Enduring something that’s unavoidable once you’ve gotten knocked up might be impressive, but it says nothing about the relative toughness of the sexes.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Childbirth

Ah, that one. Somehow I knew you were going there.

You are aware, are you not, that once you reach a certain point, that baby is coming out, whether one wants it to or not. Scream, object, wish otherwise all you want, it’s going to happen. One cannot take credit for involuntary reflexes.

Consider instead another issue which involves pain. I used to do competitive bicycling. One of the truths of the sport is that the winner is the one who can push deeper into pain and maintain it longer than the others. It’s very much a “toughness” game. Riding over 100 miles at competition speeds hurts. A lot. So why aren’t the women beating the men?

There are numerous activities where a big part of it is being able to push past the pain and keep going. How is this “toughness” expressing itself there?

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Married? Have kids? Siting with some nice ladies and showed them your response. Much laughter ensued. My opinion child birth is awe inspiring. And to do it again willing is unbelievable. Your analogy just shows that yes men are SUPERIOR at physical activities and can have better times than women; does that mean women aren’t out there competing? Um no. Check out the 100 mile running endurance races women do well. Historically women have been the cornerstone upon which society has been built. Staying home raising children, making all that makes a home and in the modern era finding a place within a work place that was most un-welcolmeing, without giving up. Plus they have to deal with us on a daily basis. Now that’s tough.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Married? Have kids?

As a matter of fact, yes.

Your analogy just shows that yes men are SUPERIOR at physical activities and can have better times than women; does that mean women aren’t out there competing?

Your claim was that women were tougher. Thank you for the concession that you were wrong.

Check out the 100 mile running endurance races women do well.

Your claim was “tougher.” So compare those with the men’s times, hmm.

Now that’s tough.

The correct answer is “no, I don’t have any mensurable standards by which a comparison can be made; all I have is rah-rah.”

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Ok now some science. Women seem to have two more things going for them. First, they keep their immune system troops on active duty for longer.
A large study by Japanese researchers recently found that although we all produce fewer B-cells and T-cells — key players in the immune system — as we get older, the decline is more rapid in men than women.
Women also seem to be getting added protection from having two X chromosomes — which is what makes them women — while men have an X and a Y.
Recently, it was found that the genes for making the T-cells that can target cancer cells are located on the X chromosome. That gives women a better chance of having them available than men. And as such live longer.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

[stuff about B and T cells and how they decline with age] And as such live longer.

Congratulations! You finally found something on which to back your claim. Old women have better immune systems (by this one measure) than old men.

I’ll give you this too: women are less likely to have hemophilia than men because the relevant gene is recessive but carried on the X chromosome so the only way for it to end up paired in women is to have a carrier or hemophiliac mother and a hemophiliac father.

This is called “grasping at straws”.

Nobody has claimed that there weren’t areas where women had advantages over men. Your specific claim of them being tougher “hands down” was challenged.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

And I replied. And won. HA!

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

And won.

Bwahahahahahaha. Whatever you say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU-paVv6zTk

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Damn, I missed the closing blockquote. Larry, if you have an edit function, can you fix that? the closing blockquote comes after “live longer.”

Guest
Jabari
1 year 1 month ago

Interesting that you used the word “superior” in there. Where did I imply that one is superior to the other, or even raise that question?

Guest
Fail Burton
1 year 1 month ago

Yeah, that’s why women aren’t drafted into the army; men are afraid a magic barometer will appear and make them look stoopid.

Guest
dyingearth
1 year 1 month ago

re: thewriterinblack

It’s a feature. Larry wants the hater’s word to be permanent. No editing. You can always add another post for clarification, but no editing, no deletion.

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Jonathan
1 year 1 month ago

Greg,

Wil Wheaton has an entire website called http://dontbeadickday.com/

Wheaton and Scalzi have collaborated on a number of projects and I believe that they are friends.

I doubt that Mr. Scalzi considers Mr. Wheaton a sexist.

Calling someone a dick is perfectly fine, it seems, but calling someone a pussy is sexist.

I do not see Mr. Scalzi calling Mr. Wheaton a sexist. I do not think that Wheaton is sexist, but according to Scalzi’s logic he should be, no?

The truth is that both ‘pussy’ and ‘dick’ have become figures of speech. Unfortunate ones they may be, but using them does not a sexist make.

To sum, neither Wheaton nor Correia are sexists for using these words. Mr. Scalzi should know better.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Once again a word that infers certain characteristics that are effective of negative attributes associated with gender. Dick implies an uncaring, uncouth man. It too falls within the same context of pussy. Also I don’t believe Mr Scalzi called anyone a misogynist rather he pointed out that use of certain words do in fact reflect misogyny and that many readers are not aware of the connotations. Like the word dick which at roots is derogatory towards men.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Also I don’t believe Mr Scalzi called anyone a misogynist

Your belief is touching, but it falls short of reality.

He did call folk “misogynists”, in so many words.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Well if we are to hold ourselves to the same criteria can you cite a direct quote where he said Mr Correia’s readers were in fact misogynists? All I read was that he stated we were “unaware”.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Re-read. Nope doesn’t say anything directly, but as you bring your own schema to reading I can see where you can infer he is calling you a misogynist. I however infer that he is implying that we readers may not understand that some words do reflect misogyny etc. I don’t find it condemning, rather it enlightens one to the nuances such words contain.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

He stated that Correia was unaware of the misogyny in his comments. Not quite what you just said there.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Kind of exactly what I wrote, so I am confused.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I am confused.

I know you are. The only question is whether it’s deliberate.

No, what you wrote, and my paraphrase of Scalzi is not the same thing.

Guest
Fail Burton
1 year 1 month ago

So what does wishing I’d die in a fire “infer?” That I don’t? Where’s Scalzi or a single one of those pedantic semantic muffins on that one? No where. That’s cuz they’re not siding with right and wrong, but being pussies and kissing QUILTBAG ass.

Guest
James
1 year 1 month ago

@Greg Wirtala: 120 characters and you ‘infer’ something that is never said or even implied? Bullshit.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I’m sorry, but this “calling someone a pussy is sexist” thing is absolute bullshit.

It’s nothing more than the typical crap of trying to control people by controlling the language. If you don’t like something, then deem it offensive and squash it like a bug, but heaven forbid you address the overall point.

Yeah, Larry called Scalzi a pussy. Everyone who read that knew exactly what Larry meant, so there wasn’t any real misunderstanding. All that happened was Scalzi deflected the discussion to make Larry look like the bad guy.

Now we’ve got this pussy, Greg, in here telling us all about how wrong we are. You know what? FUCK YOU, GREG.

I’m Goddamn sick and fucking tired of you limp dick shitballs coming up to me and people like me to tell me about how we’re all kinds of wrong for shit that wasn’t a problem 20, 30, or 40 years ago, if not long. So you know what? Kiss my ass.

I’ll keep calling turdnuggets like you and Scalzi pussies if I so choose, and until such time as you dipshits show me it’s no longer applicable.

Somehow, I suspect holding my breath until such time would be very unwise.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Yeah I never said anyone was a minsogynst just that the word pussy does in fact reflect how it came about. Please refrain from calling me names. I would not do so to you. Understanding words is important and how they came about is too. Please read more carefully next time.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Like I give a shit if you call me names or not.

You come here, after that shit last night, and proceed to talk about where the word comes from, after I was called a misogynist about a half dozen times, and you really think I give a shit about your delicate feelings?

Go fuck yourself. I’ve had enough of this “Well, this is where the word comes from” bullshit.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Wow. No need to swear. Maybe a nap might be in order. Clearly you have some issues that need resolving. Which is a good thing. Relax. Save your vitriol for someone who is actually calling you names.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

How about you take your suggestion of a nap and shove it up your ass.

I started off this fucking year, literally, with death threats against both me and my children. I’ve been called all manners of names, including a fucking misogynist, and that’s just in the last 24 hours. This is after months of actually trying to keep things cool and calm in my discussions.

My reward has been more and more vitriol directed at me and people who share my views. So, as of last night, that fucking shit ended. I’m done with it.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I’m sorry, but this “calling someone a pussy is sexist” thing is absolute bullshit.

Neither “pussy” nor “bitch” is a general term for humans of the female sex in the dominant culture within the US. There are subcultures where they are but, strangely, the SJWs never seem to take these subcultures to task for the rampant misogyny.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Of course not, because we need to respect their culture. The fact that those groups do more to dehumanize women with their choice of everyday language is irrelevant.

Guest
dyingearth
1 year 1 month ago

It’s not any-ism if their people uses it.

Guest
Lea
1 year 1 month ago

Calling someone a dick is also considered an insult. Is that anti-man? I don’t think there is much difference here…

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Remember that “anti-man” is completely alright.

Just like wishing we would all die in a fire.

Guest
Heather
1 year 1 month ago

If I might offer a linguistic counterpoint? Both ‘pussy’ and ‘dick’ have negative connotations. They also have non-sexual meanings. (Cat and short form of Richard… try explaining that last one to a native speaker of Russian reading A Batman comic in English.). That being established, let us examine why they are insults. Each implies the worst behavior of those of the respective gender who think with the wrong portion of their anatomy. Those behaviors tend to differ in type. Therefore someone behaving belligerently is more likely to be called a dick than a pussy, even if the individual is female. Likewise someone who is backstabbing and concern trolling is more likely to be called a pussy, even if they are male.

Having read the exchange, if such an insult had to be used, the behavior being insulted is more in line with ‘pussy’ than ‘dick’. No one would have accused Larry of misandry if he had used ‘dick’ which means those being offended find it more insulting to be compared to the worst of women than the worst of men, which implies they, not he, are misogynistic.

Guest
Jonathan
1 year 1 month ago

Well stated.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

DING

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

That should have been:

DING DING DING DING

We have a winner!

Guest
Heather
1 year 1 month ago

To me, this is the epitome of insulting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVb_pwi8JfI (the good part starts at 1:11, before that is scene set up.)

Guest
RS
1 year 1 month ago

*Sigh* As a woman I find this kind of white knighting so much more patronizing than Larry putting a gun in a woman’s hand and essentially saying “here’s your equalizer.”

I’m physically weaker than most men. I’m a trained martial artist and have no trouble recognizing that fact. It’s not a case of “superior” vs. “inferior.” It’s just the way things are.

I’m not interested in the word police defending us poor little women. I’m interested in what I can do in the real world to defend myself if needed.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Not word policing. Just stating the etymology of the word pussy and by the definition misogyny it fits. Feel free to use as it is effective. My focus is on the word.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Bullshit, Greg. You’re here telling all of lowly males that we’re wrong to use the word.

STFU. No one here gives a shit what you think.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Once again never said anything disputing about anyone. My focus has been and always will be on the word itself which by definition is misogynistic in origin. Jeez. I don’t ascribe to defining people by a single word. Just be aware of were that word comes from.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

How about you stop trying to tell us where the fuck the word comes from when, frankly, we could give a shit. We all know what it means now, and what it doesn’t mean.

Seriously, you’re coming across like a fucking concern troll, and not a particularly skilled one.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

You’ve been hurt a lot it seems. I’m so sorry. I hope you can resolve these issues.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Save it for someone who might actually care.

I like where I’m at right now.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Hmmm, if you took that as sarcasm my apologies. I was just expressing concern for a fellow human being.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I didn’t take it as sarcasm.

I’m saying I don’t need it. If you want to show concern, express it to all these people who fire off so much hate they honestly can’t see that people can disagree with them without actually hating them.

It’s OK though. They win. Now, I do. I hope they’re happy being right going forward.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Well I am still going to wish you the best and hope you don’t let the comments of others affect you negatively.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Whatever.

I’m serious though. They need your good wishes more than I do.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Ok. Live a good life!

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Like I said I am sorry for that. And I get that all the time too. Being over 6 foot, weighing 260, bald and goateed many have expressed much of the same sentiment towards me. I try not to let it affect my responses and try to contain my ire. I think of it as poor, uniformed children who just don’t know any better and them I feel sad.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Well not thousands but hundreds. I teach 5th grade. I am also 6′ 275# bald, goateed huge through the shoulders and have a demeanor that many view as “scary”. I have been called many a vile name, people banding against me to get me fired (granted no one whoever actually had a student in my class) had a parent group spread a rumor about me being a pedophile, told I was too dumb, too mean, too anything, teachers giving me the stink eye and cold shoulder because I like to hunt, and fish and don’t ways agree with their political view. So maybe not on the grand scale that you have experienced but I have felt I was attacked from all sides, but I refuse to let it define me. It’s not easy but I won’t allow petty children dictate to me how I should or should not react. I also don’t try to change their minds. Can’t be done. I just do the best I can, keep to my believes and laugh at their idiocy.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Mondays for me. Well ’cause you know I have the weekends off.

Guest
bjlinden
1 year 1 month ago

That sucks, but to me that sounds like a typical Thursday. :)

“For you, the day the International Lord of Hate fisked your village-idiot was the most important day of your life. But for me? It was Thursday.”

Guest
ratseal
1 year 1 month ago

@ RS: HERESY! Turn in your woman card forthwith and apply for re-eduation!

Guest
RS
1 year 1 month ago

Like T.L. said– bullshit. Scalzi latched onto Larry’s word choice in an attempt to avoid actually having a conversation about the *real* issue– which is women defending themselves against rape. All of this word policing crap and cries of misogyny are nothing more than a feeble attempt at misdirection. Anyone with half a brain can see right through it. Sadly that leaves a lot of Scalzi fans still in the dark…

Guest
RS
1 year 1 month ago

@ratseal– No need. According to Scalzi and his ilk I’m not a real woman anyway. I’m just some feebleminded, brainwashed soul in need of rescuing from myself. I’m sure they’ll tell me, at length, why they should make all of my decisions for me and how Larry and the rest of you are oppressing me.

Guest
Mike
1 year 1 month ago

I’ll give you 100% that the connotations of “pussy” indicate the misogynist history of our language.

But I don’t think we can excise it from our language very well without being incredibly inconsistent. There are almost no insults that did not at some point refer to our sexist, racist, ableist, or classist assumptions about people.

It is my opinion that to focus on that language rather than on the content of someone’s actions is a distraction from real progress. The discussion of the use of the word “pussy” as an insult belongs in linguistic essays, not debate.

It’s a reasonable argument that Mr. Correia, if he wants to reach more progressives with his opinions, might want to try to speak their language. But it doesn’t make his opinions less valid if he does not choose to convert with progressives on their own turf.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

No it should not be excised from the language it is what it is. At it’s root the Word is misogynistic, not those who use it.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

At it’s root the Word is misogynistic, not those who use it.

Then who cares? Really, who but etymologists should give a rat’s ass?

The word “sanguine” comes from the Latin word for “blood.” At its root it means “bloodthirsty”. However, thanks to a completely wrong theory of medicine in the middle ages, “blood” came to be associated with optimism, cheer, and happiness, and so “sanguine” shifted meaning to “cheerfully optimistic.”

Try using “sanguine” in its original meaning and watch the confusion ensue. The word means what it means now. It’s origins don’t really matter to that.

The same with “pussy.”

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Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Awesome. I love word origins and believe it is important to understand how words were created, used and evolved.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

important to understand how words were created, used and evolved.

Why? Why should that matter in people’s use of a word?

If someone describes a person as “sanquine” are you going to come out and say “you know, that word, in it’s origin is quite violent, meaning ‘bloodthirsty'”?

Does that add anything to the conversation? If I were deciphering an old document, it might matter–to know what the word meant then (c.f. “well-regulated” and “militia”), but in conversation happening today about contemporary topics?

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Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Well I think it’s important. It’s like history knowing how and why things are is way cool.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I think it’s important.

Bully for you. Why should that matter to anyone else?

Next time you encounter someone using the word “sanguine”, send me the link of your response. I’d love to see the reaction when you tell them how violent the word is in its origins.

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Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Well first my mom cares. And second I will send it to you! Won’t that be cool to read? I’ll get the other side all riled up! Which will be fun.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I’ll get the other side all riled up! Which will be fun.

Well, if that’s your goal, then you succeeded. There is, however, a term for that but most folk aren’t so willing to admit it.

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Ad Astra
1 year 1 month ago

Greg Wirtala says “And I replied. And won. HA!”

The real loser here is grammar.

Declaring yourself the victor and leaving the argument now? ROTFL Straight from the Internet Argument Checklist.

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Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

No didn’t leave. Been responding to others. As for my grammar? Typing on phone. Small keyboard; big thumbs.

Guest
Albert
1 year 1 month ago

Yeah. And then it ended up a classic 1-2-5-7.

Guest
Underwhelmed
1 year 1 month ago

Just so you know, Greg, balanced against the unreasoned flaming of you downstairs — you hit the nail on the head. A man can use a gendered slur without being inherently sexist/misogynist because of the deeply ingrained cultural conditioning that involves the insulting of men by comparing them to women. It’s so deeply ingrained, especially in US culture, that many many men simply fail to see it — and when you call them on it, they immediately get defensive and hostile. This immediately makes them look even more anti-women than they do already.

Seriously — how hard it is to say Oh. I didn’t realise that it might be taken that way. I didn’t realise that women hearing men insulted by being compared to a woman might feel slighted, disrespected or relegated to 2nd class citizen status. It wasn’t my intent. I’ll try to do better. How hard is that for an intelligent, rational man?

But clearly, for some men, some of whom congregate here, the ability to stop and think and consider someone else’s experience is beyond them. Very sad. And it’s the kind of angry, bitter refusal to think that maybe someone else — gasp, a woman! – has a legitimate point or experience that fuels the equally self-defeating rage and hate demonstrated by the misandrists of the feminist movement.

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Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Wow. Thanks. What I thought was a simple answer went crazy. Oh well. Good night all. Have a fun; read a lot.

Guest
bjlinden
1 year 1 month ago

This freakout over the word “pussy” just highlights, again, the problem with the 1984-ish restructuring of the english language to support their political goals that the left has been trying to slip under our radar.

Yes, it’s unfortunate that a part of the female anatomy has been coopted as a term for weakness, and it would probably be a little bit better (and more descriptive) if we were using a term like “spineless cowards,” or something along those lines, instead.

But even if that term DID reflect peoples’ opinions of women deep-down, (and I’d argue that it doesn’t; everybody knows, instinctually, that when they say “pussy” they’re not talking about a literal vagina, and I don’t think many people who use the term would agree for a second that all women are weak) to equate that with ACTUAL hatred of women, and to try to argue that removal of the word “pussy” from the lexicon will somehow stop wife-beaters, abusers, and people who discriminate against women in other ways? To try to play on peoples’ existing, and totally reasonable, hatred of the one thing in order to try to control their opinion the other? That’s just deceptive and harmful. To insinuate that those two very different things are, in fact, the same thing, accomplishes nothing but to water down the actual phenomenon, and to trivialize actual rape, racism, and misogyny.

Yet, they absolutely refuse to engage you if you try to tell them that terms like “rape culture” are flawed and unhelpful. They realize that if you remove the big scary word “rape,” from their term, people will realize, “oh, wait, that’s not such a bad thing after all,” and stop paying attention to them and their silly little theory. Who knows, they might even start focusing on ACTUAL problems, like, I dunno, maybe rape!

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Wes S.
1 year 1 month ago

Apparently, “rapist” is the new RAAACCCIIISSSTTT.

The word’s been reduced to just another epithet for liberals to call people they disagree with…and give them an excuse to deny their opponents so much as the right to disagree with them. And meanwhile, the same morons who are having a pearl-clutching fit over Larry calling his opponents “pussies’ – and rightfully so – are basically the same ones running around dressed as giant vaginas.

http://twitchy.com/2014/06/18/thats-a-really-grumpy-looking-uterus-its-the-uterus-of-justice/

Besides, this whole thing sort of misses the point, which is that the argument that men need to be “educated not to rape” is ridiculously insulting on the face of it.

Perhaps John Scalzi and Greg Wirtala need such training, but most of us have the self-control and decency not to do something like that.

And from the sound of this whole argument: Before we train liberal men not to rape, perhaps we should first make sure they – and the radical feminists who keep their balls in their purses – actually understand what rape actually *is.*

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Albert
1 year 1 month ago

Hell, if you go by the response to http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/08/13/breaking-it-down , people actually get offended when you tell everyone not to rape.

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Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Dude over reach. I just said the word pussy on its origins is misogynistic. It certainly isn’t complimentary to women. If you want to disparage awesome but please do so with facts. I never defended Mr Scalzi, just commented on the word. In fact I am offended to be lumped in such company. You made assumptions and you know what they say about assuming? You’re an ass.

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DaveP.
1 year 1 month ago

Nah, you showed up to concern troll and got your ass handed to you.

Guest
Rusty
1 year 1 month ago

Nope, “Spineless Coward” is offensive to the Differently-Enabled who have no spines.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Nice of Scalzi to insult all of Larry’s fans like that. What a jerk. Scalzi’s never going to see a dime of my money, that’s for sure.

Guest
James
1 year 1 month ago

Makes sense though. It’s the same tactic cowards worldwide use: if you can’t beat someone in a straight up fight, attack their allies. Never mind the fact that Larry has fans of every gender, race, sexual orientation, and political opinion, they just lump us all together and slap a biohazard sticker on us (which is kinda cool when you think about it).

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Patrick Chester
1 year 1 month ago

Never mind the fact that Larry has fans of every gender, race, sexual orientation, and political opinion, they just lump us all together and slap a biohazard sticker on us (which is kinda cool when you think about it).

Yeah, but the dayglo stuff is just lame.

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Slublog
1 year 1 month ago

Indeed. That tweet is a perfect example of why I no longer purchase his books. It’s not that he has strong opinions that are the opposite of mine – everyone has strong opinions about something and perfect agreement is an impossibility.

No, Scalzi has lost me as a reader because he seems to find joy in displaying his contempt for those who disagree with him. It’s like a twisted form of performance art with the goal of proving himself the most virtuous person in the room.

I don’t mind giving money to good artists who simply disagree with me, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to hand over money to someone who repeatedly goes out of his way to spit in my face.

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Wes S.
1 year 1 month ago

That’s exactly my take on things. I read plenty of writers who likely disagree with my politics (and vice versa), but I’m not going to give one thin dime to anybody who goes out of his or her way to gratuitously insult me.

I’ve never bought a single book of Scalzi’s, and I never will. And the asshole quotient was one reason I stopped reading Stephen King. (Still like some of SK’s early stuff, but – save perhaps for “Needful Things” and “Dreamcatcher,” you can keep the rest of his post-“Christine” catalog.)

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Fail Burton
1 year 1 month ago

Let me leave this here where QUILTBAGs can see what SFWA members do which they DON’T call out.

“Beth Bernobich @beth_bernobich · 11h @eilatan I want LC (Larry Correia) and his fucking minions to die in a fire.”

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piotr1600
1 year 1 month ago

Dear Beth,

Sorry there, Smokey-bear, but it’s highly unlikely the vile fantasy of death and agony that you are wishing on your fellow humans will come true.

Most of us have smoke detectors & fire extinguishers, because we (Larry’s minions/fans in general) are generally the sort of folks who look at the actual hazards in the real world, and prepare accordingly.
Nor are we ‘arson apologists’ for taking such rational precautions.

And BTW, your “fine example” of how not to be a decent human being is duly noted.

XOXOXO

Piotr

Guest
RS
1 year 1 month ago

I’m actually glad these people put their vile opinions out there so blatantly. It makes it so much easier to decide which books to never, ever buy.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I second that

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Dear Fail,

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Dammit!!! try again

Dear Fail,

Why do stupid people, leave amazingly stupid comments in public places when everybody knows that you are actively hunting down stupid comments by stupid people and then use them as ammunition to show everyone how they are being stupid people in the first place?

keep up the good work,

-Chris

Guest

Twitchy missed the most cogent part of the argument:





Guest

Um…warning….not even vaguely safe for work…

Guest

I already have Nemesis: Hardcover on order, but I just ordered the Ebook as well, just to give you a little more money I’m never giving John Scalzi.

Guest
Wes S.
1 year 1 month ago

Well, “Twitter fight” is perhaps overstating things, if only because it implies equality. And given that Scalzi was basically slap-fighting while Larry was dual-wielding the rhetorical equivalent of tetsubos…

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

And he ran off like a little bitch once it became clear he was getting trounced.

Guest
SteveS
1 year 1 month ago

Everyone has some idiots that post on their sites, so I am not sure how LC is responsible for this. It seemed like Scalzi’s biggest complaint was about how the blog entry was titled? Seriously?

Scalzi had seemed to be fairly neutral in the past in regards to gun ownership. His latest post seems to show how condescending he is towards gun owners. While some people’s gun pictures are creepy, he seems to be projecting his own insecurities.

Guest
Fail Burton
1 year 1 month ago

Everybody who uses the word “pussy” deserves to die by being put in a giant microwave oven in a tin foil tuxedo while lava is poured over them because “misogyny.”

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

No that is just plain dumb. Just because you use the word does not mean you hate women. Jeez. Forest meet the trees. It’s part of our vernacular and it isn’t going to go away. I think one should be just know the etymology of the word, and as Mr Scalzi alluded to it’s nuances.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Tell you what. You go tell Scalzi that it isn’t misogynist, and I’ll revise my opinion of your presence here from troll to “someone who doesn’t really understand what we’ve been catching from those guys for months now).

Bonus points if you can get him to agree that it’s not.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Yeah not what I was saying. Once again all I am saying the origins of the word are misogynistic, not those who use the word.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Please see the response I just recently made to your post.

However, I will note that the origins of the word are irrelevant. The common use today isn’t.

Guest
Fail Burton
1 year 1 month ago

Then why must I be cursed to die by fire? That is an awful curse to bear. Is it SFWA approved?

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

I say minimize this curse and don’t play with matches.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I say minimize this curse and don’t play with matches.

There you go, blaming the victim. Why don’t you teach fires not to burn people? Don’t support burn-culture.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

I am not blaming the victim I am just saying if I was cursed to die by fire, I’d take precautions. Maybe walk around in one of those fancy silver suits.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I am not blaming the victim I am just saying

Whoosh!!!!

You do realize that this whole brouhaha started because Miss Nevada during the Miss USA Pageant, as part of an answer about what to do about rape suggested that women should learn to defend themselves. The shitstorm from the left was that the suggestion meant “rape culture” wins and that it was “blaming the victim.”

It was Larry’s post on that which was the inspiration for Hines and Scalzi calling people here misogynists.

And that is why we are here in this thread.

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Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Well not everyone. I commented on whether the word pussy was misogynistic. I didn’t comment on the anything else. I didn’t know there was rules or guidelines posted on commenting. Was it at the top? However, more than happy to put my two cents in… Most ridiculous thing I ever heard! People are dumb. Commenting on stuff that they don’t understand and taking it all too seriously. I am often flummox by what gets everyone so riled up. Too many are focused on the trees and can never see the forest. Of course Mr Coreia isn’t pro-rape or a misogynist. To allude such is just crazy. People on both sides need take a step back and think about what is being written or said. The vitriol from both sides is ridiculous. I for one would love to have a discussion not a crazy discourse. Talking about issues without attacking the other viewpoint is a lost art.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Well not everyone.

Yes everyone because if it weren’t for that, there would be no thread here.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

It may not have been your reason, but there would have been no “here” (i.e. this post and the comments thereto) if it weren’t for that.

Context. It matters.

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Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Context? Like the word pussy?

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Like the word pussy?

Will you please make up your mind? If you want to call the origin of the word “context” and, therefore, meaningful in the current use (and thus using it is misogyny) then own it. If you want to say that the origin was just “interesting” and doesn’t mean that people using it are misogynist, then it is not relevant context.

So please pick one.

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Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Well since context is defined as the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed. Then it is both. Knowing where the word comes from and it iteration through time is interesting and thus relevant, so one can understand and then assess the impact such a word has.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Ah, so you are are trying to claim that using the word is a sign of misogyny. You’re just weasel wording it.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Sigh. Here: The word pussy is misogynistic in its origins. That’s it. That is what I wrote. That’s all. Using the word doesn’t make you a woman hater, heck who even thinks that? But from a pure etymological view it’s where it got its start. Jeez.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

The word pussy is misogynistic in its origins. That’s it.

It’s not “that’s it” if you claim it’s relevant to it’s current usage any more than the origin of “sanguine” has any relevance to someones use of the term today.

You keep trying to have it both ways.

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Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Dude. Circles. It’s origins are those associative with weakness being derived for Scandanavian for “pocket” or “purse” that was used in regards to a woman’s genitalia. You don’t call someone a pussy without calling out them being weak or cowardly and a lot of those old Vikings thought that way of women. So basically calling them a girl. Which always pisses guys off.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Dude. Circles.

Yep, you do keep going in circles. You claim that you’re just discussing the origin of the word, that’s all, and that current usage is different, but then when it’s pointed out that in saying that you render your posts on that subject irrelevant to current usage you post something like this functionally claiming that it is misogynist.

Please. make. up. your. mind.

At this point, you’re getting boring.

and a lot of those old Vikings thought that way of women

You haven’t read many of the viking sagas, have you? Or The Germania of Tacitus (the Germanic tribes of that period were very closely related to the Norse).

BTW, I’m Asatru (well, “Asatru leaning agnostic”) so if you want to argue this, be sure to bring your “A” game because I am familiar with the Lore.

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Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Dude read ‘em. Love ‘em. But come on! What happens when you get a bunch of macho guys together? Good old fashion ridicule. Been a part of that from football to martial arts. Dudes always make reference to being a girl and never in glowing terms. I don’t know if you are purposefully being obtuse or I am not conveying myself clearly but once again the word itself is not exactly flattering women.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Dude read ‘em. Love ‘em.

But apparently not understood them. Consider, for instance, the roll of women in Germanic society as described by Tacitus. (You have read his “Germania” right?) Or perhaps you might consider the number of Sagas that were basically about matriarchs of various clans leading their people over the course of several generations.

Or consider the Volsung Saga (by that title it should be clear that I prefer the Icelandic version to the Germanic). While Brynhilde is not historical* (at least not verifiably so) Shieldmaidens–women who actually took up arms and fought–were. There are archaeological digs showing women buried with armor and weapons, and not just ceremonial weapons either, real, serviceable killing tools.

But come on! What happens when you get a bunch of macho guys together?

That question speaks volumes about you. In my experience, when macho men–real macho men, not just posers–the discussion regarding women is generally how awesome they are.

But, hey, don’t let that get in the way of your stereotyping.

*At least not verifiably historical. Aslaug, however, the daughter of Sigurd and Brynhild and the one person in the saga to avoid Andvari’s Curse, per the Volsung Saga, is possibly historical. She is the wife of an Ragnar Lodbruk who is possibly actually historical. A slim reed, perhaps, but slimmer ones have produced remarkable results.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Seriously your defending the word pussy? Please read carefully and understand; the word pussy is derogatory. It is in no way a compliment. It is bad. It emphasizes the “weakness” of a woman. Traits men hate. Misogyny means hatred of women. Etc. etc. etc. You are trying to pull in shades of gray that don’t exist, over thinking, over analyzing. Words like dick, pussy, fag, spik etc. were created to spark hurt and pain. I wasn’t saying anything else. Ridiculous. But hey if want to defend the word cool.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Switching ground because you got called on the “viking” angle?

Please read carefully and understand; the word pussy is derogatory. It is in no way a compliment.

Nobody ever said it was. Straw man.

It emphasizes the “weakness” of a woman.

No, actually, it doesn’t. Because, and read this carefully now, it. is. not. a. general. term. for. women. It never has been in the primary cultures in the US. Ever.

In fact, the subcultures that do use it as a general term for women never seem to get called on it by the SJW crowd.

“Pussy” is not a term for women in general. At most it is a term for a certain subset of women who behave in ways that society at large considers unacceptable–the same way “bastard” or “gigolo” refers to that subset of men who behave in ways (different for each of the two terms, so stipulated) that society at large generally considers unacceptable.

Have you ever gone anywhere and lectured people on the misandry of the term “dick”? Or on the real blaming the victim involved in the origin of “bastard” as a derogatory term? Links please.

If you haven’t you are doing no more than concern trolling.

But we knew that.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Dude are you ok? This is hilarious. I don’t even know what your talking about. Concern trolling? Don’t know what that is. I just made a comment about a word. Over thinking. So if I get what your saying pussy is ok? So if I call someone a pussy they won’t think I am calling them a weak girl? Come on this is ridiculous. Like many of those you argue your focus noton the topic but rather semantics. Crazy. You’re silly.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

I don’t even know what your talking about.

Difficulty understanding simple declarative English sentences?

Concern trolling? Don’t know what that is.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=concern+troll

So if I get what your saying pussy is ok?

Yep. Either complete failure to understand simple declarative English sentences or deliberate straw man.

You said “the word pussy is derogatory.” I replied “nobody said otherwise” Yes, it is a derogatory term. It’s an insult. Nobody has ever claimed otherwise.

It’s your specific claims about the word, its origin, and it’s usage, that are at question. Like, for instance, when you made up (or repeated something somebody else made up) that BS about vikings and you got called on it.

You keep making arguments based on “pussy” being a term for women when it’s not and never has been, not in mainstream US culture.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

That’s awesome be derisive. If someone doesn’t know something the correct response is to ridicule them. You must be awesome at a party. And gosh your right pussy never applies to women. Oh wait no just looked it up it does. I’ll re post pus·sy
ˈpo͝osē/
noun
noun: pussy; plural noun: pussies; noun: pussycat
1.informal a cat.
2.vulgar slang a woman’s genitals.
offensive women in general, considered sexually.
NORTH AMERICANinformal
a weak, cowardly, or effeminate man.

Unless offensive women in general means something different, you know being deficit in English and all.

As for your claims about Viking history I never ran away, never felt “called” out in anyway. Like I said I find the whole history to be fascinating as gosh it’s part of family history and all. While I am not an expert nor ever claim to be I have thoroughly enjoyed reading about Scandidavian culture. Of course you felt it necessary to focus on something completely different than what I said, you know about dudes hanging and turned into a fascinating history lesson. Thanks.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

2.vulgar slang a woman’s genitals.
offensive women in general, considered sexually.

Already answered long before you posted this the first time. I said in. so. many. words. that in certain subcultures it is used as a term for women. Odin’s one eye, you’re thick.

Inner city high schools. Six years in the military. Never once heard it used as a general term for women. About a specific woman about whom one was making certain assumptions, yes, but about women in general, no. Except from those specific subcultures.

If it’s started to migrate into “mainstream” verbiage it’s precisely because it’s coming from those subcultures–which subcultures never seem to get called out by the SJW crowd for.

The viking thing? You may find it interesting but you don’t appear to know much about it. As soon as somebody brings up specific points showing that they actually do have a good bit of knowledge of it, you quickly change the subject.

Consider:
http://sciencenordic.com/don%E2%80%99t-underestimate-viking-women
“To assume that Viking men were ranked above women is to impose modern values on the past, which would be misleading,” cautions Marianne Moen. She has been studying how women’s status and power is expressed through Viking burial findings. Her master’s thesis The Gendered Landscape argues that viking gender roles may have been more complex than we assume.” (More at the link)

Actual science there.

If you wanted to pick a society to be the origin of an English term to be based on the denigration of women, you should have picked another, any other, European society over Viking.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

The Webster’s Third International Dictionary points out similarities between pussy in the sense of “vulva” and Low German or Scandinavian words meaning “pocket” or “purse”, including Old Norse pūss and Old English pusa.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

The Webster’s Third International Dictionary points out similarities between pussy in the sense of “vulva” and Low German or Scandinavian words meaning “pocket” or “purse”, including Old Norse pūss and Old English pusa.

Gasp! A number of languages that are closely linguistically related have similarities in vocabulary. Stop the presses!

That’s a dish of lame, with a side order of wimpy, covered with weaksauce.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Yes continue disregarding anything from Webster’s Dictionary. And anything else you disagree with because using your logic it is wrong. You are not going to get what I saying. Which is fine. I for one would feel bad about defending the word pussy but hey what ever. Have a good one. I am off to lift.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Yes continue disregarding anything from Webster’s Dictionary.

Interesting that you bring that up in response to pointing out that Norse, German, and English are all “Germanic” languages, closely related and, therefore, there’s no real significance beyond that for them having similar sounding words. (Some, for example, consider Norwegian the easiest language for English speakers to learn: http://www.pagef30.com/2008/08/why-norwegian-is-easiest-language-for.html

But, hey, let us all bow down before the Mighty Websters.

You are not going to get what I saying.

You’re confusing “not getting it” with disagreeing. I “get it” fine. I just disagree.

I for one would feel bad about defending the word pussy but hey what ever.

And more straw man and concern trolling.

Nobody said “pussy” wasn’t applied as an insult. It’s your specific claims about usage that are at question.

That you keep misrepresenting–and after repeated corrections it has to be deliberate–what I have said on the matter says volumes about you.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Pretty consistent in what I have wrote. I don’t know what else to say. You seem to have a need to create controversy where done exist, but if I understand what you are saying Vikings would never have been disparaging to women, pussy has never been used to refer to women, and in no way is misongynistic. You call people names because it gives you sense of superiority. You take simple comments and turn them into a discourse on a dead culture, while still missing the picture that the word pussy is disparaging and hurtful to women. Cool. By the way that’s why pussy is so powerful and works oh so well. And now I am good to go. This was fun. Just to let you know I would never say anything mean to you. Never find discussions to be personal. You fat, myopic, condescending, lonely little man. HA! Good night Cleveland! Tip your waiters and try the veal!

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

but if I understand what you are saying Vikings would never have been disparaging to women, pussy has never been used to refer to women.

Since I never said any of those things, and you have been corrected on that repeatedly, you are either lying or are remarkably obtuse.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Um you said, “You keep making arguments based on “pussy” being a term for women when it’s not and never has been, not in mainstream US culture” “To assume that Viking men were ranked above women is to impose modern values on the past, which would be misleading,” cautions Marianne Moen. She has been studying how women’s status and power is expressed through Viking burial findings. Her master’s thesis The Gendered Landscape argues that viking gender roles may have been more complex than we assume.” “No, actually, it doesn’t. Because, and read this carefully now, it. is. not. a. general. term. for. women. It never has been in the primary cultures in the US. Ever.” So… You should read what you write

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

For someone who’s “off” you sure post a lot.

Um you said, “You keep making arguments based on “pussy” being a term for women when it’s not and never has been, not in mainstream US culture”</blockquote"

Note that phrase "not in mainstream US culture." It is used in certain subcutlures. I’ve said so. Nothing there is contrary to the Webster’s definition you posted. Just because some people use a word a certain way, and therefore it makes it into a dictionary, doesn’t make it something used by mainstream US culture.

“To assume that Viking men were ranked above women is to impose modern values on the past, which would be misleading,”

Did you notice the quote marks? That was from the article to which I linked. It was an actual archaeologist making that statement. You cited a the author of a lay book. I responded with someone doing actual peer-reviewed research.

People can have different “domains” and “responsibilities” without one being “above” the other. I do computer programming and atomic force microscope operation at my office. Another guy does sales and marketing. Which one of us is above the other? Without the sales guy, I would soon not have a paycheck. Without me, he wouldn’t have anything to sell.

But in your world, I guess anything other than “identical” must imply one is “superior” to the other.

“No, actually, it doesn’t. Because, and read this carefully now, it. is. not. a. general. term. for. women. It never has been in the primary cultures in the US. Ever.”

And again you miss that “in the primary cultures in the US”. Your Websters cite does not refute that.

I also said that it could be used to refer to a specific woman as an assessment of that particular individual’s, character, let us say. That usage too is consistent with the Webster’s definition.

Yes, it’s derogatory. Just as “he’s a dick” is derogatory. (And I’m still waiting for you to point out to where you’ve gone to people using “dick” as in insult and pointed out the origins of that word in misandry or where you’ve gone to people using the word “bastard” and pointed out that that word has its origins in the ultimate in victim blaming. You have done that, right? You’re not just attacking one side while giving the other side a pass, right?)

Maybe you should actually read for content

Now, as I _also_ said, it’s possible that the phraseology is moving from those particular subcultures into more general usage, but if you have a complaint with that, I would suggest you take it up with the folk who _originated_ it.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

I am not attacking anyone. I just said the word pussy in it’s origins shows a dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women: Oxford definition of misogyny. That’s it. All I have been saying. I don’t understand how else to state it.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Still here? Have a funny definition of “off”, I guess.

I just said the word pussy in it’s origins shows a dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women: Oxford definition of misogyny.

In so doing you assume far more than is actually there, as has been pointed out repeatedly.

And you can’t seem to make up your mind whether it’s just “the origin” or if it’s relevant to the current meaning.

Once again, to illustrate. The word “sanguine.”

Somebody says “I’m feeling a bit sanguine today.” Do you go to them and tell them how that word has its origins in violence (originally meaning “bloodthirsty”) and that maybe they should consider that before using such a loaded term? If you do, links please.

And then you go off into never never land trying to justify making that much stew from that little oyster by going off on Vikings (one of, if not the, least “male dominated” society of Medieval and Dark Ages Europe), you cite similarities of the sound of words (hardly surprising in such closely aligned languages–although you could also have gone for the latinate pudenda which is only three rather small linguistic steps away–consonant shift, shortening, and diminutive–from”pussy”).

You build a big series of arguments out of . . . nothing . . . in order to claim that “pussy used as an insult is derogatory” to which the proper response is “no shit,nobody ever said otherwise and that’s kind of the point of insults.”

To say that using the term is demeaning to women (misogyny) is to say that women as people are defined by their vaginas.

And that is sexist. Or to use the current buzzword, misogyny.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

I never have taken a position on current meaning. You keep trying to create an issue that isn’t there. All my posts have been about origin. And if you want to believe the Vikings weren’t male dominated go for it. You’re kind of silly. Once again don’t care how it is used. Anyone is free to use it anyway he or she wants. I would never condemn it’s use. I myself have used. I’d probably call you a pussy, all have have said over and over the word itself fits the definition of misogyny and I don’t think if you use it you hate women. Good God man.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Oh and during breaks between sets I am postin’.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

In then same arugument dick is a word based on misandry. Both words take aspects from genders deemed unsavory, but once again AM NOT saying if you use either word your intent is to be hurtful to the respective gender, rather you use it as way to insult. Both these words were created not through rejoicing in gender traits but in condemning them. Words evolve and change but they have all have a starting place which is cool. This is really not as big an issue has you are making it and I am not really sure what your arguing about. Do you think pussy doesn’t show diislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women? That calling a guy a pussy does not mean you think he is weak and girly? If so what is your interpretation?

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Hmm. Looks like I need the actual HTML (if the tags work here)

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

And no not changing tactics. Same one. Dudes in any setting, disparage one another. Biggest insult be called a girl. Blah blah blah. HA! All worked up about. If you’d like to read how Viking women lived Jenny Jochen is an excellent source she has a couple of books out. One is I believe Women in Old Norse Society, I think. I can check on a link for you if you’d like.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

If you’d like to read how Viking women lived Jenny Jochen is an excellent source she has a couple of books out.

Ah yes, you’d pick the one that agrees with you (or appears to any way. On her.

The problem is the sagas, eddas, historical works like Germania by Tacitus and History of the Danes by Grammaticus paint a somewhat different picture.

That’s why referenced the sagas themselves and actual archaeology and not from somebodies “interpretation” thereof.

2.vulgar slang a woman’s genitals.
offensive women in general, considered sexually.

Why, yes, certain subcultures use it that way. I said so, in so many words. I also pointed out that the SJW crowd never says “boo” to those subcultures over the use of the word.

You’re really reaching.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Seriously your using Saxo Grammaticus
as a source? The poet? The one you created a stylized version of the shield maiden? Saxo had a decided fascination for the Norse warrior woman, and went out of his way to collect what stories and folklore he could find about these ladies. Unfortunately, Saxo had also read quite a bit of Classical literature, and freely adulterated the Norse stories he was told with Greek tales of the Amazons. His work still provides fascinating reading. Do be sure to also read Birgit Strand’s analysis of how Saxo treats his female characters. Also from Hurtwic The Role of Women in Viking Society

Although our sources of information are limited, it’s clear that the roles of men and women in Norse society were quite distinct. Norse society was male dominated. Each gender had a set of expected behaviors, and that line could not be crossed with impunity. I think it just as unlikely that a man would weave cloth as that a woman would participate in a Viking raid. Women did not participate in trading or raiding parties (although they clearly participated in journeys of exploration and settlement to places such as Iceland and Vínland). Women’s responsibilities were clearly defined to be domestic. Members of either sex who crossed the gender line were, at very least, ostracized by society. Some cross-gender behaviors were strictly prohibited by law. The medieval Icelandic lawbook Grágás (K 254) prohibits women from wearing men’s clothes, from cutting their hair short, or from carrying weapons. Women were valued and cares for but rarely consider a warrior. Shield maidens were a rarity. But once again not my point. Guys will always call each other names and the best way to get some guys ire up call him a pussy. So relax sit back read Nemesis and have a great night.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

You don’t like Saxo as a source (not “the” source by any means, but one of many), fine. He needs to be read with a great deal of care. But you don’t get to just pick the one you don’t like and ignore the rest.

Snorri also made a great deal of effort to “Christianize” the Norse Myths. The whole point of “The Beguiling of Gilfi” is that Gilfi was being “tricked” in that these stories he was being told were about real Gods and Goddesses. Then there’s that interminable prologue (I made it through once–skipped it on re-reads) where Snorri tries to establish the Norse myths, particularly the Ragnarok tale, as being corrupted retellings of the, as he apparently thought, historical fall of Troy. (The irony of trying to “explain” one set of pagan myths as retellings of another apparently escaped him.)

Then there’s the apparent “drift” in the portrayal of Helheim. There are indications that it was not a “bad” place to go after death (the gold thatched Gjallerbru, as an example). Also, the simplistic “death in combat takes you to Valhol (folk seem to forget that Freyja gets half the warriors) while those who don’t go to Helheim (Hel’s realm in Niffleheim), the actual tales don’t paint such a simplistic picture. Sigurd, after all, while stabbed in his sleep, woke up and, before dying, chopped his attacker in half. Died fighting. In combat. Yet he and Brynhild are portrayed as going to Helheim.

So, again, not so simple.

Norse society was male dominated.

See the link to actual archaeology on the subject.

Not so simple as you claim.

The medieval Icelandic lawbook Grágás (K 254) prohibits women from wearing men’s clothes, from cutting their hair short, or from carrying weapons.

Bridging the very end of the Viking age and over the Christianization of Iceland. Is it coincidence that these exact “crimes” are what got Joan of Arc burned at the stake?

However, I’ll grant you one thing. To a certain extent all pre-industrial societies are male dominated. (Yes, I know, some folk claim a great Matriarchy in the past–it’s bullshit.) Viking society was less so than most.

Basically, you come here and present a rather simplistic view of things, whether it’s the “misandry” of a particular word or the roll of women in viking society, which simply won’t sell here.

But on the subject of vikings:

Viking Kitties Rule!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApxnAr6pRt0

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Um, dude what? Simply said Vikings male dominated and that using the word “pussy” as a slur to characterize men as “cowardly” and “weak” is still misogynistic because it relies on degrading a woman’s body. It reinforces the sexist logic that being called a woman or, in this case, a body part of a woman, is always negative, demeaning, and shameful. It reminds us that in order for men to feel truly insulted, they must be compared to women because women, as heteropatriarchy teaches us, are weaker and inferior to men. Mountain meet molehill.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Simply said Vikings male dominated

Yeah “simple.” Problem is that, as shown in the link showing actual archaeology by actual archaeologists doing actual research on viking society, it wasn’t so simple.

But nice to know you’re finally owning the claim that using the term is, in your view “misogynist” when you tried to avoid that in classic concern troll style.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Still with the name calling. And still don’t know what it means. So it has little impact. Unlike pussy. HA!

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

And still don’t know what it means.

At this point that’s on you.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

And pus·sy
ˈpo͝osē/
noun
noun: pussy; plural noun: pussies; noun: pussycat
1.informal a cat.
2.vulgar slang a woman’s genitals.
offensive women in general, considered sexually.
NORTH AMERICAN informal
a weak, cowardly, or effeminate man.

So yeah it has been/is used to describe women. Sorry.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

This is a spectator sport. Give ammo to my side and convince the undecided by mocking the willfully ignorant. Nothing more, nothing less.

One more thing, I think, that’s as important, if not more so, than the things you’ve listed: let those on your side, who can often feel awfully isolated given the stranglehold the “other side” has no the “mainstream media”, know that they are not alone.

Guest
Greg Wirtala
1 year 1 month ago

Which on your side is awesome. I love reading your responses. On the other side it’s just sad. I just think if you use a word own the fact where the word comes from. Pussy reflects an attitude embraced by previous generations that equated being weak to being a woman. That’s all I was saying. Doesn’t mean you are one. Have I used that word? Yep and other bad words that if I wrote done folks would focus on those and not what I am writing. We have a lot of word that at one time or other that origins are those that disparage. I like words. I like to understand why we use them and there iteration through generations. Could you use a word that would have conveyed your ire? Probably not. Because pussy is an impactful word because of its origins. That’s all. Keep writing. Keep defending yourself. Though I don’t necessarily agree with some of your views, you are an excellent writer that creates amazing worlds.

Guest
1 year 1 month ago

Pussy reflects an attitude embraced by previous generations that equated being weak to being a woman.

Not even that. After all, in the dominant culture “pussy” has never been a general term for “woman” just like “dick” has never been a general term for men.

“Pussy” does not mean “like a woman” any more than “dick” means “like a man.”

Note that there are subcultures where “pussy” and “bitch” are used as general terms for women. The funny thing, though, is that folk like Scalzi never call them out on their misogyny. Would you care to fill that lack? If you do, links please, I’d love to see the result.

People like Scalzi call out people like Larry (or me, although I’m not really important enough to show up much on their radar) because they know we won’t respond with anything more than words. When it comes to taking a real stand, where there are real risks of doing so, the silence is deafening.

“Pussy” has long meant “weak-willed coward” as “dick” means “arrogant, rude, obnoxious person.” No more than that.

And if the shoe fits, they should lace that bad boy up and wear it. (Oh, did I just engage in misandry there by my choice of idiom?)