Monster Hunter Nation

On Profiling and Stand Your Ground

This post isn’t really about the Zimmerman case, though I’ll touch on how use of force laws actually work relating to that case, but it is a result of the ignoramuses who know jack about how self-defense laws work who are currently talking about it and pissing me off. Included in that list is the President of the United States.

On Friday, Barack Obama said the following during a press conference. Our illustrious leader is in italics. My response is in bold.

You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son.

Yes. We appreciate the leader of the free world chiming in on local crime issues, especially before any facts are known.

Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago.

Where you in the habit of committing battery against people 35 years ago?

And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there’s a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it’s important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn’t go away.

And your preconceived notions, feelings, and emotions should be totally irrelevant in the eyes of the law. Justice should be blind, and a case should be decided based upon the evidence and whether the prosecution can convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime was committed or not.

There are very few African American men in this country who haven’t had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me.

Me too. And despite my dad being of darker skin tone than Al Sharpton, according to these Home Depot paint chips I’m only Warm Beige. Also totally irrelevant. I’ve got a family member who takes after my mom’s super lily white side of the family, way the hell whiter than my swarthy self, who always got tailed through stores because he managed to look suspicious, and oddly enough got arrested for shop lifting on his 18th birthday.  

There are very few African American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator.

Don’t flatter yourself. Nobody has ever been physically intimidated by somebody wearing mom jeans. Now Vlad Putin on the other hand, he shows up, hide your wife, hide your kids.

 There are very few African Americans who haven’t had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.

And this happens to black men, white men, Asians, Latinos, you name it, and I think that’s awesome. That means that woman is paying attention to her surroundings and knows that simple physics gives a huge advantage to the male in case he decides to do something. Aren’t you from the same side that is constantly complaining that America has a “rape culture”?

I happen to look like a scary 6’5” Tony Soprano. I’m actually physically intimidating, and that is at 37 years old and years of desk job. When I was in my 20s I could bench press 365 pounds and was 270 pounds, 16% body fat, of Big Ugly. I usually had a shaved head and a goatee and I looked like my favorite hobby was punching things, which it was. I was a hundred times more physically intimidating that President Lady Parts on his best day. So I’ve been profiled tons, and I’ve had lots of women obviously assess me like I was a threat.

And I don’t think it is a bad thing at all.

#

First off, way to bring America together there, champ, sending the DoJ after a guy who got acquitted with your civil rights violations witch hunt. People get shot every single day, and some of them in cases way more complicated and questionable than this one, but none of those happened in the lead up to a national election where you needed to try and scare the electorate that America is still Mississippi circa 1957.

Second off, that is an incredibly vapid and naïve sentiment, not to mention hypocritical coming from a dude whose family will have armed security profiling potential threats for the rest of their lives.

Over the last couple of days I’ve grown tired listening to people who know jack about use of force laws bloviating on and on about how it is awful to profile people, and how the mere act of being suspicious of another person makes you evil. So today I’m going to talk about profiling, and how come it isn’t a bad thing at all. Notice that I didn’t say racial profiling, because race has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Back when I was teaching concealed carry classes I used to spend a bunch of time going over use of force issues. This can be basically broken into two main categories:  Legal, as in when you are legally justified in shooting somebody (a Reasonable Man would believe there is Ability, Opportunity, and an Immediate Threat of Serious Bodily Harm to themselves or a 3rd person from an aggressor), and Tactical, as in the decisions you make in order to maximize your chances of not getting hurt or killed. The two aren’t always the same, as you can be legally justified in getting involved, but it is tactically stupid, or vice versa.

Profiling falls under the tactical end of things.

The single best weapon you’ve got to defend yourself isn’t your gun, but rather your brain. You need to be smart, and try not to put yourself into situations where you would need to use your gun. The best way to do this is by paying attention, and when you notice something which could be construed as a potential threat, you do what you need to do in order to avoid it.

And at this point, somebody is going to read that and shriek about how according to my advice Zimmerman shouldn’t have followed Trayvon… Uh huh, legally that doesn’t matter, because as I noted above law and tactics aren’t the same, and you can be 100% legally justified even if you didn’t make the best decisions in the world leading up to the event. I had somebody get all belligerent on Facebook and demand “would you have done what Zimmerman did?!” And my answer was No, but the jury is going to ask “did you act as a reasonable man?” not “did you act like a guy who has gone through hundreds of hours of training?” And you’d better pray to God they never change it from Reasonable Man to “did you act as Larry Correia would have acted?” because then you’re all screwed.

So getting back on topic, the best way to avoid a violent encounter is to watch out for potential threats so you can hopefully avoid them, or be ready to react appropriately should things go south. That means paying attention to your surroundings. (This also keeps you from getting hit by cars, falling in holes, or being devoured by wild animals, so yay! Happy bonus!) That means paying attention to people who could–but more than likely won’t–want to hurt you.

I used to tell my students to pay attention to their instincts. If you get a bad vibe off of somebody, for whatever reason, pay attention to it. That doesn’t make you rude, or a jerk, that is just you paying attention to survival instincts that have been built into the human species over millennia for a reason. If the person that made you nervous happens to be a different color than you, who cares? That doesn’t make you racist, and it doesn’t make you a bad person. It just means that they’ve made your survival instincts tingle. So pay attention.

I had somebody on Twitter today tell me that according to that reasoning, Martin was justified in attacking Zimmerman, because Zimmerman made him nervous… That’s just freaking stupid. I said pay more attention, I didn’t say go over and commit a forcible felony against them. Duh.

So if you see somebody coming up to your car, where is the harm in locking the door? I know this may offend the president’s tender feelings, but he’ll get over it. You’re out nothing and 99.99% of the time it doesn’t matter, but that .01% of the time you just told a potential predator that he’s better off picking a different victim. (this part is highly ironic, as the people I’ve been debating with keep saying Zimmerman should have stayed in his car, but apparently he shouldn’t have locked the door!)

There’s a saying from firearms instructor Clint Smith, “If you look like food, you’re going to get eaten.” I used to explain to my classes that criminals were as good at their chosen career as the students were at theirs. Criminals are experts at picking out victims, and they prefer the suckers who aren’t paying attention. If you look like work, they’re probably going to pick somebody else to victimize. If you’re paying attention you’ve gone from “food” to “work” and if they wanted to work for a living they’d get a real job.

I think one reason permit holders don’t get into as many violent encounters as the regular population isn’t because the gun is some magic talisman that wards off evil, but rather because once you’ve made the decision to carry a firearm, you tend to pay more attention to the world around you.

So pay attention! Watch people. Watch for those visual, non-verbal clues that set off your survival instincts. If somebody makes you nervous, be prepared for something to happen, or try to move yourself out of the way. I call this common sense. Barack Obama calls it profiling, except for when DHS does it to veterans, because that’s just groovy.

But good people have been trained that judging others is bad! Violent criminals, especially those that specialize in preying on women, are aware of this, and they absolutely love it. The creepers and the stalkers and the would-be rapists take advantage of regular folk’s inclination to be polite. I’ve taught hundreds of female students, and many of them could personally cite some jackass taking advantage of their attempts to be polite, or if the woman stood up for herself (or clutched nervously at her purse and held her breath) they’d get some variation of “how come you gotta be such a bitch?”

Thieves and jerks who want to physically assault you love this too. If somebody is getting into your personal space, the natural human inclination is to move away, but too many people have been trained by liberals to be good little serfs, and they try to avoid giving offense, so they let the bad guy close on them, and once they are too close, it is too late. I’ve seen normal people let scary, aggressive, obviously messed up people close way into their personal space, and they sit there and take it, because they’ve been programmed that “profiling is bad” or he could actually be bug nuts crazy and you let the dude with the rusty box cutter get into bad breath distance. At least after he opens your jugular, at your funeral they’ll be able to say you never judged anyone.

I don’t give a crap if race comes into this or not. I’m the same color as Cheech Marin. During the summer I’m best described as “swarthy” but my olive skin tone and ability to tan well isn’t why I think it is awesome when I see some woman in a parking lot take note of my approach. It is because for all she knows I’m a potential threat, capable of easily physically overwhelming her, and she can stand there like a sucker and bank on fortune and karma that I’m not, or she could notice me and pay attention. Maybe even not stick her head inside the car and obliviously load groceries until I walk past. In fact, I’m so big that I’m used to going around people in places like that, simply to avoid making them nervous.

I’m so big and ugly that if I got into an elevator with Barack Obama he’d hold his breath and clutch his purse. Except I’d never be allowed into an elevator with Barack Obama because his highly trained Secret Service detail would profile me first.

I’m going to teach this to my daughters. Pay freaking attention. I’d much rather they hurt Barack Obama’s delicate lilac scented feelings, than they end up as victims. But then again, I’m also expecting my children to all carry firearms, because a firearm is the ultimate equalizer.

Now, for the people who are getting offended because people are profiling you… Yep. No big deal. Grow up. Some of us are scary looking.  Don’t let it hurt your feelings. You just need to come to terms with the fact that humans routinely victimize other humans, and some of us look more like predators than others. Does it sting when somebody reacts like that, even though you’re the nicest, most genuinely friendly person around? Sure does. Now imagine it was your wife, or your daughter, or your mom, or your grandma, and they were dealing with some scary son of a bitch that looks like you… Yeah, that changes your perspective, doesn’t it?

A fact of life is that people are going to look at you and make a snap judgment. If I see a group of young men dressed all Thug Life, you’re damn right I’m going to pay more attention. If you dress and act in a manner that equates with a culture well known for its violent tendencies, well yeah, people are going to be suspicious of you. Duh. If that offends you, pull up your pants. You look like an idiot with your underwear hanging out anyway. I also don’t trust white guys with swastikas tattooed on their faces. I obviously must be racist toward white people.

When I was 17 I got my jaw dislocated and a concussion from a beating I took from four members of an “inner city youth organization”. They came up and sucker punched me because I wasn’t paying attention and dog piled me (though I did actually win in the end, like I said, big dude). Would I notice them now? More than likely, because I’m older, wiser, and I’ve had the experience of getting my ass kicked enough to reinforce the need to pay attention in public places to groups of young men acting like they’re looking to give somebody the “whoop ass”. Knowing what I know now I might have picked up on the indicators, the way they got charged up, the target selection process, whatever, and I might have been able to move myself out of the way, or at least been more prepared for the confrontation. And in this case, all four of them were within two shades of Home Depot paint chips worth of skin color off of me. Race was irrelevant. I’d notice the same thing if they were Nigerian or Norwegian. Because once they are stomping on your head, race is fairly irrelevant.

#

Stand Your Ground Laws

In related idiocy, the other thing that I’m hearing a lot of bleating about is how evil Stand Your Ground laws are. I keep seeing people saying that Stand Your Ground should be repealed, and then they cite a bunch of crap that actually doesn’t have anything to do with SYG type laws. Of course, Attorney General Eric Holder, who is best known for illegally smuggling thousands of guns to Mexican drug cartels, is totally trust worthy on this topic.

I saw a blog post from another sci-fi author talking about how SYG laws basically make it legal for white people to kill black people if the black people make them nervous… Wow… That’s like saying we dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima because Americans weren’t fond of origami or haiku. No, dumbass, that’s not how the law works. Just because MSNBC told you SYG laws are racist doesn’t make it true.

The thing is, SYG laws protect everybody, and everybody includes minorities. It protects anybody who acts in self-defense from the state and from over-zealous prosecutors. I keep seeing all these liberals talking about the racist injustice inherent in the system and how blacks are more likely to be sent to prison, and in the next sentence they are saying that we need to give the state MORE prosecutorial power and get rid of things like Reasonable Doubt and SYG laws.

There are two differing sets of law that govern how state’s self-defense laws work, Stand Your Ground and Duty to Retreat.  Basically all Stand Your Ground means is that you don’t have a Duty to Retreat, and most states have been this way since George Washington chased out the British, so this isn’t anything new.

Duty to Retreat means that you MUST flee from your attacker if possible. If you don’t retreat, and you shoot, then you can be prosecuted for that. Some states even require you to try and retreat from inside your own home. Stand Your Ground means you have no Duty to Retreat (but it doesn’t mean you can just shoot whoever you want whenever you want like people are trying to spin it).

But why wouldn’t you want to avoid shooting somebody? I always taught my students to avoid shooting if possible. That sounds great! Except here’s the problem. You get into a violent encounter. You’ve got a couple of seconds, tops, of gut wrenching terror in which to decide a course of action, commit, and see it through. So somebody attacks you, you are in fear for your life, and you shoot them. Except now when you go to court the prosecution can go after you because in those two seconds, when you didn’t see a way out, the prosecutor thought of one! And nowthey are going to pontificate on what you should have did differently, and how you should have tried harder to get away… Only they are going to do it in an air conditioned court room for ten thousand times longer than you had to decide, and when they get hungry they are going to order pizza.

With Stand Your Ground, that’s not going to come up, because you’re not required to try and run away. That’s it. That’s really all it comes down to. You’re not required to try and flee.

It doesn’t mean you can just shoot brown people who make you nervous. That’s propaganda bullshit. Even in the most lenient use of force law states (one of which I live in and taught this stuff for a decade) that’s not how it works at all. Let me condense down a couple of hours of legal lecture into a few points to see if any given shoot is justified or not. Most states operate on the following criteria:

Would a Reasonable Person (like a jury) make the following assumptions in your circumstances?

Were you in fear of receiving Serious Bodily Harm from an attacker? (some states use the term Grievous Bodily Harm instead, but either way it means were you in fear for your life, or of getting a bad life threatening or potentially life altering injury? Also, in some states it is you, or a third person, meaning that you can get involved not just to save your life, but someone else’s life as well)

If so, would a Reasonable Person come to the conclusion that your assailant(s) met the following three criteria:

  1. Did they have the Ability to cause you Serious Bodily Harm? (basically meaning can they actually hurt you?)
  2. Did they have the Opportunity to cause you Serious Bodily Harm? (basically meaning can they reach you with their ability?)
  3. Were they acting in a manner that suggested they were an Immediate Threat? (basically meaning are they actually acting like they’re going to do all this stuff to you now? Some states refer to this as Jeopardy)

Check. Check. Check… Bang. That’s fundamentally how the law works. Keep in mind in a class I would spend an hour going over examples of shoot and no shoot situations based on those things, but that’s basically all there is to it.

So let’s look at Trayvon Martin getting shot by George Zimmerman. Go through the criteria. The stuff leading up to it is basically irrelevant for this portion. Serious Bodily Harm? In most cases there aren’t even any physical injuries to show, and you’re still justified just by the reasonable belief of potential threat, but in this case there are actual injuries. Slamming your head into pavement meets the legal threshold. In fact, any blow to the head sufficient to render you unconscious is sufficient to kill you, and also if somebody renders you unconscious a reasonable man can say that you can assume they’re not going to stop there. So good to go.

Ability? Yep. Physically Martin was dominating Zimmerman. Opportunity. Yep, it’s happening right now. Jeopardy? Already in play.

Right there, within a couple of days of the shooting most of the self-defense instructors in the nation looked at this case and said, yep, he’s getting off. Not because of race, because for us you could flip the races and it was the 1/8th black Peruvian that got shot after committing battery against a black guy, and the answer remains the same, because that’s how the law is structured.

I say this and I’ve got people saying that I’m rejoicing in the death of a black kid… Sigh… Yeah, don’t tell all the black people I taught to shoot and certified to carry concealed weapons…  No, you freaking idiots, my FEELINGS are irrelevant, because law isn’t supposed to operate on feelings. It is supposed to operate on evidence.

So up next comes the legal question of whether the individual did anything which escalated, contributed to, or caused the violent encounter. Now the Reasonable People of the jury are deciding if this was Mutual Combat (when two people mutually decide to fight) that turned deadly. This is actually what most of the Zimmerman trial was about, and this is the point of the phone calls, and the timelines, and the witnesses, and everything else. It was to see if Zimmerman was partially legally at fault for the events, and if so, how much.

In this case, the jury looked at the events in question leading up to the shooting, and they couldn’t say Zimmerman was responsible beyond a Reasonable Doubt. (see, there’s that word Reasonable again).

Remember earlier when I mentioned law and tactics? They’re not the same. Could Zimmerman have done things differently? Certainly. But making bad tactical decisions isn’t necessarily illegal. The jury figured that regardless of what Zimmerman did, ultimately it was Martin that circled back around and committed the Forcible Felony. At that point it went up to the checklist above. Part of being a Reasonable Man is not being able to predict the future with 100% accuracy. Everybody makes assumptions, and sometimes they are incorrect, that doesn’t make it illegal. Jumping on somebody and braining them on the sidewalk is illegal.

I’ve had people demand how come Stand Your Ground didn’t protect Trayvon! (seriously, I’ve seen this like 50 times on Twitter. It is like everybody works off the same narrative talking points). SYG doesn’t apply in this case because apply the checklist of Ability, Opportunity, and Immediacy to Zimmerman. Somebody following you through a neighborhood doesn’t mean that you can go and beat the hell out of them. And if you attack somebody before they reasonably present a threat of Serious Bodily Harm, then it isn’t lawful self-defense, so SYG doesn’t apply.

Prosecution’s witness, Rachel Janteel, (Trayvon’s girlfriend) was on Piers Morgan and said that the reason Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman was because he thought Zimmerman was a “gay rapist”. And also that Martin didn’t mean to kill Zimmerman, that was just a misunderstanding on Zimmerman’s part, and really Travyon just wanted to give him the “whoop ass” (her words, not mine) which was a cultural thing and how they took care of people like that… Despite MSNBC’s narrative to the contrary SYG doesn’t allow you to give the “whoop ass” to somebody just because you think they’re gay.

(On that note, gay rights community… Seriously?  I taught and certified a lot of gays and lesbians to carry guns, and the reason they usually gave me was so they could protect themselves from somebody giving them the “whoop ass” because of how they looked, and now I’m hearing crickets. Where’s the condemnation against this reasoning? Where’s the outrage?)

I’ve had people yell at me that there was only one side alive to tell their story… (again, another common talking point) Oh my gosh… That’s so incredibly dumb. That’s not how it works at all. If that was the case then there would never be any murder trials because obviously one side couldn’t testify! There’s ALWAYS more than one side. There’s evidence, there’s witnesses, there’s experts who reconstruct the details, and the prosecution had all of that to present, and the jury still had Reasonable Doubt.

Then I’ve got people crying about how “unjust” Reasonable Doubt is… You fools. You stupid, stupid fools. Put your emotion in check. What Reasonable Doubt really is the final check and balance against the state’s ability to throw your ass in prison forever with a flimsy case. You’re going to bitch and whine about the injustice, and how it is racist that more blacks are prosecuted and incarcerated, and your answer is to make it EASIER for the state to throw people in prison? Holy moly. You have no idea what you are wishing for.

That’s it. That’s how the self-defense laws work. Wrap your heads around the actual laws and calm the hell down.  Instead you’re begging stalwart defenders of civil rights like President Drone Strike and the AG who is cool with killing Mexicans to get rid of laws that protect YOU from the STATE. That’s way scarier than any one neighborhood watch guy with a gun.

Shameless self promotion time: Swords of Exodus!
Geeky Hobbies, Sunday Afternoon Painting. TROLLS!

Leave a Reply

172 Comments on "On Profiling and Stand Your Ground"

Notify of
avatar

Formynder
Guest
Formynder
3 years 4 months ago

Also, it should be asked, who are that those folk following the President around when he’s shopping? Why, they would be the Secret Service.

aksoutherland
Guest
aksoutherland
3 years 4 months ago

Bravo and well said. You sir, are my hero for the day.

Steve
Guest
Steve
3 years 4 months ago

Hear, hear!

JMD
Guest
JMD
3 years 4 months ago

My thoughts exactly.

Nicole
Guest
Nicole
3 years 4 months ago

Thank you Larry ” Voice of Reason” Correia!

JA Goodwin
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Great article, too bad liberals prefer emotion to logic as a group.

parrotheadjeff
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

You need to be back on TV with this one. It’s right up there with your gun control piece. Thank you for common sense.

NKR
Guest
NKR
3 years 4 months ago

Awesome! It’s horrifying how people want laws changed in such a way that nobody has any protection from injustice simply because they don’t like a verdict and they’re on an emotionalist rampage of spite.

“Delicate, lilac scented feelings” is my favorite phrase of the century so far, too.

Kristopher
Guest
Kristopher
3 years 4 months ago
Robin Ambrose
Guest
3 years 4 months ago
It has to be quoted: William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law! Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil? William Roper: Yes, I’d cut down every law in England to do that! Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and… Read more »
PavePusher
Guest
PavePusher
3 years 4 months ago

Worse yet, if you cut down all the laws, you have done the Devil’s work for Her.

Carl Rigney
Guest
Carl Rigney
3 years 4 months ago

Very well written! Thanks very much for going into detail on justification for use of deadly force. For a great book on paying attention to surroundings and not ignoring the little voice telling you something’s wrong, Gavin de Becker’s “The Gift of Fear” is very useful. (He also wrote a sequel for parents, “Protecting the Gift”, more focused on children.)

Is Massad Ayoob’s “In the Gravest Extreme” still relevant, or have gun laws changed too much since 1980?

KaD
Guest
KaD
3 years 4 months ago

The Gift of Fear is excellent.

soldier1eaodgreen
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

People have to remove emotion from their analysis of this incident before they can look at it logically.

dgarsys
Guest
dgarsys
3 years 4 months ago

Interestingly, in one post you not only summarized a lot of the materiel over at No Nonsense Self Defense (http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/ – focuses mainly on how to recognize a situation, how to avoid a fight, and how not to provoke one by staring/etc… as well as an overview of street etiquette) as well as brushed against the topic covered in Eric Raymonds’ “Ethics From the Barrel of a Gun”

Great post.

Wraith
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

That’s a great site. Mr. MacYoung has actually been on the bad side of things, and there’s no better source to learn from.

On topic, Larry’s once again laid down The Last Word.. Too bad he’s trying to use logic and reason to deal with–for the most part–the willfully insane. 🙁

John
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

****ing outstanding post! Rock on!

steve
Guest
steve
3 years 4 months ago

SFF author/firearms instructor/accountant Larry Correia explains Stand Your Ground and Profiling for People Who Want To Be Alive Tomorrow.

James Conason
Guest
James Conason
3 years 4 months ago

Loved reading this just then, and shared on FB as I have a large amount of contacts who fall into the mindless sheep who listen to too much MSNBC category.

Dan
Guest
Dan
3 years 4 months ago

Great job!

brontobike
Guest
brontobike
3 years 4 months ago

Effing brilliant!
And the best dissertation on the subject I’ve read to date.
Period.

weathermarch
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Great post, I’ll be returning later to check for hate comments, since someone will get their panties in a twist about this one.

Ted N
Guest
Ted N
3 years 4 months ago

How dare you get facts, laws and logic on their emotional outrage! 😛

RES
Guest
RES
3 years 4 months ago

… my FEELINGS are irrelevant, because law isn’t supposed to operate on feelings.

Not true in Barack Obama’s and Eric Holder’s America … coming soon to a state near you!

Great explanation, Larry. I’ve sent it to my daughter to remind her of the importance of situational awareness.

MarkP
Guest
MarkP
3 years 4 months ago

Laar,

thanks for the explanation. As a non-American trying to understand the issues it was quite difficult. The new’s stories now indicate that they want to prosecute ‘Federally’. If someones found innicent how can they be prosecuted again?

Blume
Guest
Blume
3 years 4 months ago

Technically they cant be unless different crimes are charged against him or a mistrial is declared.

IM Sirius
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Reblogged this on IM Sirius and commented:
The clearest explanation of the law in regards to self-defense and how it relates to the George Zimmerman trial that I’ve seen.

Mike
Guest
Mike
3 years 4 months ago
Agree 100% with the post, but I want to add one thing. There is an issue with “black and male” being one of those things that sets off people’s gut reaction. I think some of that is what you talked about with the clothing… but baggy pants and a hoodie isn’t the equivalent of a swastika. It’s the equivalent of a T-shirt and jeans in a lot of neighborhoods. Yeah, the gangstas wear them because they’re from those neighborhoods, and yes they even originated some of the fashion. But any more it’s really just that ganstas dress that way because… Read more »
John in PA
Guest
John in PA
3 years 4 months ago
On dress code choices: “Individuals can start dressing above their class to escape it, but should they have to?” Nope, don’t have to, but if a wise person sees the dress as an issue, maybe they would CHOOSE to dress differently. I can legally wear a hockey mask in public if I choose. Should I be surprised if people get squirmy around me? After Columbine, would an intelligent young person wear a long black trenchcoat to school and then be surprised to be questioned by the principal? We make judgements about people all the time based on dress. In most… Read more »
Toad
Guest
Toad
3 years 4 months ago
I grew up in “One of those neighborhoods”, and have the scars to prove it. I have that gut reaction to anyone using that clothing, no matter what skin color. When you dress in a certain way, you associate yourself with the cultural and economic groups that do that. Anyone who wears baggy pants and a hoodie is associating themselves with gangs and dealers. I don’t care if it is a common way to dress where they come from, its still a choice, and its a choice that indicates other choices. Black and Male has nothing to do with how… Read more »
Mike
Guest
Mike
3 years 4 months ago

Christ, half of the white boys in my school dressed like that. Most of them weren’t thugs, either, they just listened to too much gangster rap and thought it made them look cool.

Don’t mean to say that all black men dress a certain way, or that people have to dress a certain way because they came from a neighborhood.

Kristopher
Guest
Kristopher
3 years 4 months ago

Mike: And those white boys dressing up like gangsters are the white boys that are most likely to try to harm you.

They are adopting a violent culture.

Geodkyt
Guest
3 years 4 months ago
As a matter of fact, I am MORE likely to be untrusting of white teenagers dressed in baggy pants, hoodies, etc., because it marks them as having made a conscious choice to adopt parts of a violent, predatory culture UNLIKELY TO BE THEIR OWN. Means they are more likely to have adopted the violent and predatory parts along with the fashion than someone who grew up in the neighborhoods where “everyone dresses that way”. Of course, someone walking around in starched fatigues who isn’t a cop or a serviceman in uniform ALSO trips my distrust triggers — again, because they… Read more »
LittleRed1
Guest
LittleRed1
3 years 4 months ago
Yes, in a perfect world, St. Martin de Porres could wear baggy jeans and a hoodie and no one would think ill of him. In this world, if I see a bunch of guys with shaved or cropped hair, leather jackets, dark jeans and an attitude coming towards me, I’m getting the H-ll out of the way (Germany). Ditto a bunch of guys in hoodies and baggy jeans and an attitude (‘States),in both cases because of the culture they’ve chosen to associate with. I’m 5’ 1″, female, and limp a little sometimes. You bet your bippies I learned to profile… Read more »
Guest
NR Pax
3 years 4 months ago

My brother has a saying that he applies to a lot of his patients: “If you don’t like the stereotype, don’t look or act like the stereotype.”

Free-range Oyster
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

This can be hazardous, because the stereotype is in the mind of the observer, and you have no way to know how broad the criteria are for it to be applied. For example, a lot of snooty New England “elites” assume that anyone with a Southern drawl is an idiot. I think your brother’s advice has some wisdom to it, but you have to be careful about how it’s applied.

Julie Frost
Guest
3 years 4 months ago
If a person is going to choose to dress in a way that people associate with gangs and drugs, they can’t get all surprised and indignant when people, you know, associate them with gangs and drugs. If they don’t want to be identified (profiled) with that sort of people, then they should pull their damn pants up (or buy pants that actually fit, there’s a notion) and straighten their hat. It’s not that hard. Clothing and attitude are visual cues that humans use to assess threat. If a person is going to dress in a way that other humans associate… Read more »
Rob Crawford
Guest
Rob Crawford
3 years 4 months ago

From the testimony, it wasn’t how he was dressed, but the circumstances (evening, rainy night), behavior (appearing to case homes), and history (multiple break-ins, including an occupied-home invasion).

The whole “hoodie” thing is a smokescreen, a distraction to over up the behavior.

Julaire
Guest
Julaire
3 years 4 months ago
Mike, you say this: “Yes, most of the people committing crime look a certain way.. but how many of the people who look that way commit crime?” The answer of course depends on where you are, but say it’s something small like 1%. This means that if I avoid walking past people who look that ‘certain way’ on the street at night this way 100% of the time, I avoid 100% of the chances that I might be mugged/raped/assaulted. I’d rather hurt someone’s feelings by avoiding them when they’re completely innocent, than hurt my physical body in some manner by… Read more »
conradca
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

It is a large percentage of those that chose to look like thugs that are thugs. Just consider thug Trayvon. He both looked like a thug and acted like one.

nedb
Guest
nedb
3 years 4 months ago

A good posting. One of the screams coming from certain parties was “If Zimmerman were black and Martin white, Zimmerman would have been convicted.

Umm no

There is a similar case in NY where the roles were reversed.

http://angry.net/blog2/?p=12544

Tex (@Gen_in_Texas)
Guest
3 years 4 months ago
That case keeps being distorted over and over. Scott claims fear for his life because a 17yo half his sized ‘charged’ him in a ‘duty to retreat’ state. No one has said that the kid was shot IN THE BACK; the bullet exited through his neck went into a neighbor’s house. Then he was shot a second time, the bullet entering through his hand and then into his chest, and the ballistics showed that was as he was falling when he was shot the second time. He shot him IN THE BACK with the barrel at least six feet away;… Read more »
trackback

[…] via On Profiling and Stand Your Ground | Monster Hunter Nation. […]

thewriterinblack
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

“Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago.”

So 35 years ago you were a drug-using thug wannabe who would double back to commit aggravated battery, a felony in all 50 States, on a “creepy ass cracker” for the “crime” of checking you out because he thought you were acting suspiciously?

You know what? I believe you.

Okay, I really don’t, but only because I don’t think Barack Obama 35 years ago had the stones to go face to face with anybody any more than he has them now.

ZachNathanael
Guest
ZachNathanael
3 years 4 months ago

Just wanted to say looking forward to Swords coming out right when I get out of MCT/MOS! Hope your summer was good buddy!

Guest
NR Pax
3 years 4 months ago

Good luck, Zach. And what job will you be doing as one of Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children?

Dan Tamblo
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Larry,
My current book, F is for Failure – How the President and Congress is Failing Mainstreet America, will be out in the fall. I need your permission to quote a few things from your blog.
Yay! for you making sense. My take is the president and his ilk are positioning themselves for a bundle of new money to flood their pockets ‘to help race relations in America.’ The other reason is the diversion from the real news i.e. economy, middle east, etc.
Thank you,
Dan Tamblo
dantamblo.com
dantamblo@hotmail.com

Andrew Young
Guest
Andrew Young
3 years 4 months ago

Most epic sir. Well done!

Jay Blair
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Larry, I reckon this is a typo?

“I was a hundred times more physically intimidating that President Lady Pa[n]ts on his best day.”

Thank you for posting this. I am sharing, sharing, sharing out to teh interwebz!

Gracias,
Jay

tazntaylr
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Great post Larry.

Tex (@Gen_in_Texas)
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Are your books this funny?

If so, I’ll have to pick one up.

Luke
Guest
Luke
3 years 4 months ago

Yes. Yes he is.
Read the first two lines of Monster Hunter International for an excellent example.

salgak
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Larry’s books, ESPECIALLY the Monster Hunter Series, are FULL of little jokes, in-references, and such. I **LITERALLY** was ROFLMAO’ing the first time I read Monster Hunter International. . .

Ken Harkin
Guest
Ken Harkin
3 years 4 months ago

Owen’s announcement to his boss in chapter 1 of MHI that he had violated the corporate policy on firearms was rather amusing.

NKR
Guest
NKR
3 years 4 months ago

Good golly, Tex, get on that! They’re hilarious as well as riveting and even stressful (lotsa action). So set aside some time.

Achillea
Guest
Achillea
3 years 4 months ago
“If you dress and act in a manner that equates with a culture well known for its violent tendencies, well yeah, people are going to be suspicious of you. Duh.” This. So much this. As John in PA, Toad, and others have pointed out, how you dress is a choice. I’d add that that includes tattoos. (Now, I know plenty of perfectly wonderful guys with tattoos — the AAA guy who came out to help with my semi-flat just yesterday had ink even under his hair — and it’s too bad that thug asshats have given them such a bad… Read more »
Sentenza
Guest
3 years 4 months ago
So up next comes the legal question of whether the individual did anything which escalated, contributed to, or caused the violent encounter. Now the Reasonable People of the jury are deciding if this was Mutual Combat (when two people mutually decide to fight) that turned deadly. This is actually what most of the Zimmerman trial was about, and this is the point of the phone calls, and the timelines, and the witnesses, and everything else. It was to see if Zimmerman was partially legally at fault for the events, and if so, how much. According to my reading of the… Read more »
conradca
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

That’s right. If two guys are in a fist fight one can’t decide to shoot the other. It’s only when one uses deadly force against the other the a shooting in self defense is justified.

So if Zimmerman and Martin were in a fist fight without deadly force, then Zimmerman couldn’t shoot in self defense. However, if Trayvon knocked Zimmerman down, pinned him to the ground and was wailing away at his head and bashing it into the concrete sidewalk then Zimmerman is justified in shooting in self defense.

salgak
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Come on, Larry. . . .President Choom-meister would have been too stoned to get actively involved in a fight, unless it was over Twinkies or Cheetos. . . .

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool
3 years 4 months ago

He still might’ve been party to some ‘Kill Haole’ day festivities. Plus, if we grant him any credit for any measure of leadership, he might well have organized such.

Kay
Guest
Kay
3 years 4 months ago

Great illustration of how criminals profile their victims.

musashi
Guest
musashi
3 years 4 months ago

Yet again, brilliance.

accordingtohoyt
Guest
3 years 4 months ago
a) my gay friends are furious and vocal — but then they are mostly libertarians or “right wingers” like the rest of my other friends, so… different. b) I’ve been known to cross the street to avoid my older son. At thirteen. You see, I was doing the scan ahead thing, and instead of seeing my son (whom I didn’t expect at that time) I saw “scary big dude, in leather jacket and stubble” — I don’t stare or focus on details, just shape assessment — and started to cross the street, which is when he called out “moooom!” in… Read more »
thewriterinblack
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

“I prefer not to find out.”

Bingo!

Ken Harkin
Guest
Ken Harkin
3 years 4 months ago
I bought my first handgun at 21 and read In The Gravest Extreme that same year. That was 22 years ago. Many of Ayoob’s writings followed and I accredit his lessons with teaching me how to get out of what could easily have escalated into a lethal force encounter once without the lunatic biker ever knowing how close the nerdy college kid / pizza driver came to killing him as he threatened to pull me through a car window and beat me in the street. His writings told me to leave my ego behind when carrying a gun so I… Read more »
csmallo
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Obama, and every other president, is the employee of the American citizens. He isn’t our leader or the leader of the “free world”. He is just a man hired to carry out the will of the Congress. It is time we knocked the office of the president down several notches and put it back where it belongs.

Free-range Oyster
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

There is a difference between ‘is’ and ‘should be’, but I agree with you on general principle. If you have a way to change the culture to bring that about, I am (sincerely) all ears.

Jim McCain
Guest
Jim McCain
3 years 4 months ago

Ive spoken extensively with some of my black friends here in Shreveport and they said Trayvon was dressed like a punk and a gangsta wanna be and thats how kids in the “hood” wearing hoodys and baggy pants are looked at by most blacks. They said to a person that he was shot in self defense and dont blame Zimmerman. All young blacks dont dress like in Hoodys and baggy pants.

Vang
Guest
Vang
3 years 4 months ago

Hail to Saint Skittles! He became a martyr defending us from “gay rapists”. 😛

Josh
Guest
Josh
3 years 4 months ago

Larry; really love your Grimnoir Chronicle books. Had no idea about your politics based on the books (so far), which is a compliment. You spend very little time discussing why you would not have done what Zimmerman did, but don’t explain (here at least) what or why? What would you have done differently? Also, you seem like a pretty tough guy — I imagine you think that Zimmerman’s an enormous pussy. A rather large dude confronting and then getting the shit kicked out of him by a skinny 17 year old.

Lemming
Guest
Lemming
3 years 4 months ago

See, I’ve said it before. Where other Baen authors bludgeon you with politics across the back of the head, LC (particularly in Grimnoir) is slipping it into your drink while your back is turned.

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C
3 years 4 months ago
Josh, The Zimmerman being a big dude and Martin being a skinny little child business is another piece of misinformation fed to the news media by the Trayvonistas, and repeatedly regurgitated uncritically by said news media. Zimmerman was 5′ 7″ and a little over 200 lbs (giving a body mass index, or BMI of 31.9, which is clinically obese). Martin was at least 71 inches (length of body at autopsy, if you believe anything Dr. Bao reports), and in life over six feet tall, judging from the convenience store video, where the clerk was 5′ 10″” and Martin is clearly… Read more »
Josh
Guest
Josh
3 years 4 months ago
Thanks for the response — I understand that, legally, it doesn’t matter and is irrelevant to the question of whether Zimmerman should have walked, but you stated above (in response to a belligerent Facebooker) that you would not have done what Zimmerman did. Just wondering why? Because, to me, if you’re going to be the guy who gets out of the car to confront the suspicious guy in the neighborhood, you should probably feel pretty confident in your ability to kick some ass — would seem to be a necessity in that line of work. My assumption is that he… Read more »
Keith Glass
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

I’m going to say what I **THINK** Larry will say, as his tactical advice has ALWAYS turned out to be sound.

Larry (and most of the other members of the Nation) would have kept much better situational awareness than Zimmerman seems to have done. We would never have been surprised by Trayvon appearing out of nowhere. . .

No surprise, no getting jumped, and very likely no shooting. . .

Rob
Guest
Rob
3 years 4 months ago

I’m going to go with “he wouldn’t have exited the vehicle”. Being in a vehicle gives you an enormous advantage over an attacker on foot, mostly because you can simply floor it and get the fuck out of dodge. It also packs far more energy than even the largest handgun cartridge.

Zimmerman made a mistake when he got out of the car, but it was neither illegal for him to follow someone, nor was it an offense worthy of being attacked over.

Mike_in_Kosovo
Guest
Mike_in_Kosovo
3 years 4 months ago

[quote] Because, to me, if you’re going to be the guy who gets out of the car to confront the suspicious guy in the neighborhood,[/quote]

Where did you see any testimony to the effect that Zimmerman was going to confront him, rather than keep an eye on where he went?

Scott
Guest
Scott
3 years 4 months ago

http://personal.crocodoc.com/KmDwMfm?embedded=true

“Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.”

Kay
Guest
Kay
3 years 4 months ago

Your link is not to anything in the trial itself, but a statement by police in a deposition. Much of this statement was refuted at trial. Specifically, that Martin jumped out of the bushes and confronted Zimmerman and then threw the first punch.

Joseph Capdepon II
Guest
Joseph Capdepon II
3 years 4 months ago

Scott and they were wrong. They were proven wrong by evidence. They were proven wrong by Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend in the trial.

Scott
Guest
Scott
3 years 4 months ago

Joseph,
the question from Mike in Kosovo was “Where did you see any testimony to the effect that Zimmerman was going to confront him, rather than keep an eye on where he went?”
I provided the answer. I did not say it was fact, just that there was testimony to that effect.

Geodkyt
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Scott — that “Affadavit” was conclusively PROVEN FALSE in court.

Hell, Alan Dershowitz is calling for criminal prosecutions of the PROSECUTION TEAM, based in large part on that document.

It was also NOT a piece of testimony or evidence in this case. It was the way in which the prosecution by-passed the normal grand jury requirement.

conradca
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

The thing that Zimmerman did wrong was take his eyes off of Trayvon. He turned his back when walking back to his car and this allowed Trayvon to sneak up on him from behind and attack him by surprise.

ymarsakar
Guest
3 years 3 months ago
Most of what I think he should have done differently is in the reply to the police walkthrough video here. http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/what-actually-happened-with-zimmerman-and-tray/ The drug Tray was on most likely consisted of cold medicine + skittles + tea. As such, it would have a different metabolic effect than being stoned on marijuana. Zimmerman followed the instructions of the 911 operator like a good Democrat. Obeying Authority. However, if I was in his shoes, I might have wanted a bit more training before operating on those instructions. If I wanted to operate on such instructions, I would have told them to hold while… Read more »
RES
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

If profiling is, as our president and attorney-general lecture us, always wrong, ought we assume they would have no problem if a few dozen white men wearing white robes and hoods, emblazoned with symbols of militant Christianity and carrying axe handles, walked down their street? Obama nor Holder wouldn’t tell the Secret Service to look at those guys?

Scott
Guest
Scott
3 years 4 months ago

Well, the ACLU *did* go to court to protect the right of neo-Nazis to march in Skokie.

Joseph Capdepon II
Guest
Joseph Capdepon II
3 years 4 months ago

Scott, you do know what the 1st Amendment is don’t you? I don’t agree with neo-Nazis or any white power groups just as I don’t agree with black power groups but they have a right to say whatever the hell they want.

RES
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Scott, you seem to have misunderstood my question. I asked nothing about whether “certain extremist groups would be allowed to walk down the street.”

My question was whether Barry & Eric would lock their car doors at the appearance of such a group. The Secret Service is merely a protective detail in such circumstances; they should have no say in who is allowed to walk down the street.

The question, fundamentally, was about the probable hypocrisy of our Lecturers-in-Chief, not the first Amendment.

Geodkyt
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Scott — HUGE diffference between a scheduled march and rally that follows the same rules as any other group (including the Kiwanas) would use to do the same thing, and a group of Klansmen or Neo-Nazis in full lynch costume heading down the street. Especially if that neighborhood had a recent rash of felonies committed by guys in those same outfits. . .

Cadeyrn
Guest
Cadeyrn
3 years 4 months ago
Also, as it turns out, Trayvon was a thug. If you reviewed his texting history, he was continually getting kicked out of school for fighting, seeking weed and using, talking aggressively (and perhaps being aggressive, see fighting above) etc. etc. Most of that was excluded from the criminal trial but will most definitely come in for the inevitable civil trial. Every person with whom he fought will be called to testify. His mother will be brought in to explain why she kicked him out of the house and made him go live at his father’s house, and we’ll get a… Read more »
Rob
Guest
Rob
3 years 4 months ago

I’m not 100% certain, but I’m pretty sure Florida’s self defense statutes prevent Martin’s family from suing Zimmerman in the event of an acquittal. It was part of that SYG package (and probably part of the real reason that idiot politicians are attacking SYG laws; that and the fact that SYG laws give them less power over us peons).

Besides, Martin’s family already got a pound of flesh from the HOA (who didn’t even wait for the trial begin before capitulating).

Rob
Guest
Rob
3 years 4 months ago

By the way, Larry, what’s the deal with your time stamps? They’re showing as seven hours ahead of what my actual time is, and since I’m Pacific time, that’s six hours ahead of you. Google tells me that’s the time zone for the Azores. You got family there or something? 😉

KaD
Guest
KaD
3 years 4 months ago

He was also suspended for having burglary tools and stolen jewelry. Interesting how the media used a photoshopped picture of him at age 12.

Cadeyrn
Guest
Cadeyrn
3 years 4 months ago

By the way, if that “could have been” Barack Obama, we, as a nation, have been greatly deceived.

Scott
Guest
Scott
3 years 4 months ago
There were only two people who really knew what happened; one of them is dead, the other was the defendant. But if I were to guess, it would go like this: Two people came together in joint idiocy. One was wannabe law enforcement who charged ahead when wisdom (and a police dispatcher) said to stand by and wait. Another was a teen–and teenagers tend towards unthinking, stupid acts–who decided on confrontation when getting the hell out of Dodge would have been the wisest choice. And since neither person wanted to win the Clear Thinking Award and stand down, it escalated.… Read more »
DaveP.
Guest
DaveP.
3 years 4 months ago

Or perhaps you’re siding with the perpetrator and against the victim, whose preperation allowed him to survive a felonious and unprovoked assault.

Scott
Guest
Scott
3 years 4 months ago

I can argue with you, since I know my own thoughts. You’re wrong.

Scott
Guest
Scott
3 years 4 months ago

You believe that my saying that no crime was committed means I’m siding with Trayvon? Your logic is haywire.

Geodkyt
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Scott – a crime WAS committed. Felony assault.

Committed by Trayvon Martin — AS VERIFIED BY PROSECUTION WITNESSES.

So yes, you are choosing to side with the AGGRESSIVE PREDATOR.

DaveP.
Guest
DaveP.
3 years 4 months ago

Ah Scott, but you see I’m using YOUR standard. In the same way that YOU know what was on GZS’s mind, I know what’s on YOURS.

Not to mention that you spend all your time talking about how GZ is somehow culpable for being assaulted by a streethood.

Geodkyt
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Scott — given that you have FACTUALLY INCORRECT statements in your version of the events (factually incorrect, AS ACKNOWLEDGED BY THE PROSECUTION AND ITS OWN WITNESSES), even after factual correction has been offered, your opinion on this case is meaningless mouth farting.

You not only weren’t THERE, but you are “obstinately ignorant” as to what facts ARE known, when those facts do not support your opinion.

scott s
Guest
scott s
3 years 4 months ago

The facts are, as far as the jury determined according to evidence, Zimmerman had turned around to walk back to his car. At which point Trayvon Martin turned around with the intent to commit felony assault. Which he did. I doubt Zimmerman was feeling all that much false confidence when his head was being bashed into the pavement, he thought ‘this guy is going to kill or hospitalize me’ and responded accordingly. Any feeling of Rambo Wannabe Cop he may have had before is irrelevant, and your own personal belief.

DaveP.
Guest
DaveP.
3 years 4 months ago

“Any feeling of Rambo Wannabe Cop he may have had before is irrelevant…”

All right, everyone! Any feelings that Scott may have of inferiority to George Zimmerman is irrelevant to his continued attempt to read Zimmerman’s mind, so please ignore Scott’s feelings of inferiority!

scott s
Guest
scott s
3 years 4 months ago

This is a different scott, sorry, was using his trope. As far as I can tell, Zimmerman had no issues with wannabe cop syndrome, he was just someone trying to help his neighborhood.

scott s
Guest
scott s
3 years 4 months ago

gah, too tired, cut off part of my post. Rambo Wannabe Cop was meant to be sarcastic.

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C
3 years 4 months ago
Two people came together in joint idiocy. One was wannabe law enforcement who charged ahead when wisdom (and a police dispatcher) said to stand by and wait. Another was a teen–and teenagers tend towards unthinking, stupid acts–who decided on confrontation when getting the hell out of Dodge would have been the wisest choice. And since neither person wanted to win the Clear Thinking Award and stand down, it escalated. I’ll admit I bought the “wannabe” angle initially and mentally equated Zimmerman with aggressive mall ninjas and other assholes. But following Andrew Branca’s trial coverage on the blog Legal Insurrection was… Read more »
thewriterinblack
Guest
3 years 4 months ago
Some people have asked me if I thought Martin “deserved” to die. Well, no, not any more than people who drive at high speed through mountain roads “deserve” to run off cliffs and die. But it happens and when it does “deserving” or not, they really only have themselves to blame. Trayvon Martin was on a path that had, as one of it’s predictable outcomes, either permanently ruining or ending his life. Maybe that road should have had more “warning signs” or maybe he would have ignored that as much as he ignored what warning signs were there (and I’m… Read more »
KaD
Guest
KaD
3 years 4 months ago

If you’re asking why Zimmerman had a gun, it was on the advice of police to protect himself from the thug’s choice of biological weapon, a freeroaming pit bull: http://www.dogsbitedecatural.com/2013/07/sanford-fl-george-zimmerman-and-his.html

Brigitte Grisanti
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

This comment is to thank you for your off topic Zimmerman article — relieved to hear a different side altogether as to how this could be explained. It’s clear you put a great deal of effort into your thoughts. It certainly provoked further conversation that I appreciated. Brigitte Grisanti

thewriterinblack
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

BTW, “The Swarthy Menace” is a running gag on Tom Kratman’s conference on Baen’s Bar. Naturally, with your description of yourself as “swarthy” I had to ping them over there. 😉

Shayn Roby
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Reblogged this on shaynroby and commented:
Shayn Roby’s Take: Correia45 is right on the money. Barack Obama has taken the party of race baiting to a whole new level. He and Al “Not So” Sharp-ton are doing their best to engage the newest Democratic Party version of the Hegelian Dialectic.

Darryl
Guest
Darryl
3 years 4 months ago

Outstanding post, Larry! I couldn’t agree more!
Love your writing, and proud to see another Central Valley boy make good.

Rob
Guest
Rob
3 years 4 months ago
THIS is why we have Stand Your Ground Laws: *Spoilers* for those who can’t watch the video (you really should watch it first; I am not a good story teller): Massad Ayoob relates the tale of a man named Jay Lewis, a federal employee with a clean criminal record living in West Des Moines, Iowa, who was attacked by two men last year. During the confrontation he shot one of his attackers and wounded him, after which both ran off. Lewis was subsequently charged with two counts of intimidation with a dangerous weapon and one count of going armed with… Read more »
Rob
Guest
Rob
3 years 4 months ago

Hmm…the time code must have been stripped out from link; the story starts at 12 minutes, 50 seconds.

Justadipshit
Guest
Justadipshit
3 years 4 months ago

Larry..serious subject..but us in the bar..baen’s bar..in the kratskeller..just had to have some fun..
Better to laugh than cry we say.

leaperman

http://bar.baen.com/index.php?t=msg&goto=928215&#msg_928215

Justadipshit
Guest
Justadipshit
3 years 4 months ago

May the Swarth be with you:)

hehe

trackback

[…] On Profiling and Stand Your Ground (larrycorreia.wordpress.com) […]

Tam
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Don’t flatter yourself. Nobody has ever been physically intimidated by somebody wearing mom jeans. Now Vlad Putin on the other hand, he shows up, hide your wife, hide your kids.

…hide your Super Bowl rings… 😀

Scofflaw
Guest
Scofflaw
3 years 4 months ago

How the hell did I miss that?

trackback
3 years 4 months ago

[…] Jay in Missouri recommended some commentary by Libertarian science fiction novelist (and shooting instructor) Larry Correia: On Profiling and Stand Your Ground […]

djole
Guest
djole
3 years 4 months ago

This Daily Kos graphic is now making the St. Trayvon apologetic rounds:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/23/1225851/-The-One-Simple-Graphic-that-Sums-Up-the-Whole-Problem-with-the-Trayvon-Martin-Case
Somebody posted it on Facebook; I gave it a point by point rebuttal; lets see how she responds.

KaD
Guest
KaD
3 years 4 months ago

A GREAT read Sir, I comment you. As an aside, I do not think I have ever in my life seen as many utterly idiotic comments as I have seen in the aftermath of the TM/GZ case. It’s just maddening.

Scott
Guest
3 years 4 months ago
My Dad and I disagree about quite a bit of things, the mere possession of firearms in the house is one of them. He opened up with how Zimmerman was a racist asshole who wanted to kill him a nigger. I replied with the conversation between Martin and his girlfriend, about how he had gotten into a fight with one guy, and was going to go back for a second round because the victim didn’t bleed enough. It ended with his girl begging him to stop getting into fights because one day he was going to find someone meaner. “Where… Read more »
FrankNorman
Guest
FrankNorman
3 years 4 months ago

It may have stopped the discussion, but did it change his mind?

trackback

[…] On Profiling and Stand Your Ground | Monster Hunter Nation Reply With Quote […]

Ken
Guest
Ken
3 years 4 months ago

Larry, can you please schedule a press conference at the White House and address the Nation…just read the atricle and walk out.

perlhaqr
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

In fact, I’m so big that I’m used to going around people in places like that, simply to avoid making them nervous.

I do this too. It seems polite.

(For those who don’t know me, Larry and I could easily be on the same team of post-apocalyptic Vikings. 6’5″, 275#, etc.)

Paul Bonneau
Guest
3 years 4 months ago
“First off, way to bring America together there, champ, sending the DoJ after a guy who got acquitted with your civil rights violations witch hunt.” Ah, here is the source of your confusion. It’s not the job of the president to bring people together. His job is to divide them. It’s called “Divide and rule.” Prez is doing exactly what he was hired (by the ruling class) to do. So, we shouldn’t be surprised when he does it. Also, about profiling, it’s the genius of the ruling class and its Ministry of Propaganda (the “mainstream” media) to give something that… Read more »
jay352
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

This is all blatant agitation. They will not be satisfied until blood is spilled in the streets.The useful idiots, as usual, have no clue about the real goal

thewriterinblack
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

There’s a lot of agitation but looking at how . . . tepid . . . the actual protests I’ve seen are it doesn’t really seem to be getting a lot of traction.

jay352
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

No it doesn’t. This isn’t 1965 where the majority of blacks are disaffected. Now they have nice suburban homes, good jobs etc.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool
3 years 4 months ago

In fairness, the Democrats may have gotten a bit rusty at running lynch mobs.

Achillea
Guest
Achillea
3 years 4 months ago

“Now they have nice suburban homes, good jobs etc.”

That and they all know at least one Trayvon. They might not contradict the narrative in public, but there’s no way they’re going to waste their time protesting on behalf of a punk they recognize perfectly damn well as a ghetto thug.

trackback

[…] Jay in Missouri recommended some commentary by Libertarian science fiction novelist (and shooting instructor) Larry Correia: On Profiling and Stand Your Ground […]

trackback

[…] FROM LARRY CORREIA on his blog. […]

Dale Kidd
Guest
Dale Kidd
3 years 4 months ago

Definitely the best and most detailed summation of the facts on this debate I have seen to date. Watching from the sidelines in Canada (where Duty to Retreat is the rule) I have been making most of the same arguments in debate with a LOT of my more liberal countrymen. Thanks for a clear, concise overview that bears out my points!

trackback

[…] Larry Correia takes a look at Profiling and Stand Your Ground. […]

SPQR
Guest
3 years 4 months ago

Great piece, good sir.

trackback
trackback

[…] [High Praise! to Monster Hunter Nation] […]

Tom Johnson
Guest
3 years 3 months ago

Well said. Well thought out. Well lived.

trackback

[…] Here, at Monster Hunter Nation. […]

Meredith L. Patterson
Guest
Meredith L. Patterson
2 years 7 months ago
I have no idea whether you read comments on ten-month-old posts, but this is very well said, all of it. I particularly liked this part: “I used to explain to my classes that criminals were as good at their chosen career as the students were at theirs. Criminals are experts at picking out victims, and they prefer the suckers who aren’t paying attention. If you look like work, they’re probably going to pick somebody else to victimize. If you’re paying attention you’ve gone from ‘food’ to ‘work’ and if they wanted to work for a living they’d get a real… Read more »
thewriterinblack
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
I’m curious about your take on Marissa Alexander’s failed SYG defence, There are several problems with her attempted use of “Stand Your Ground.” 1) Stand Your Ground requires you be at a place you “Have a legal right to be.” She was not. While she had a restraining order against her estranged other, she was at his dwelling. She was not at her own place and the onus for violation of the restraining order is on her, not him. 2) She left the scene, returning to her car to get the gun, then returned to the house to fire the… Read more »
Meredith L. Patterson
Guest
Meredith L. Patterson
2 years 7 months ago
Thanks very much for the explanation. “Being someplace where you have a legal right to be” makes sense — otherwise I suppose it’s not *your* ground — and I see how leaving the scene and returning violates both the letter and the spirit. The notion of a “warning shot” was beaten — or, well, beat-your-face-en — out of my entire BCT company, so that always seemed like a colossal blunder to me, but it’s also very helpful to know how that interacts with SYG. The plea bargain issue strikes me as a separate one too, and gets into issues of… Read more »
trackback

[…] Stand out? Hell, when I grow out my Duck Dynasty beard I can pass for the twin brother of one of the terrorists we just let out of Gitmo. I’m 6’5” and when I was young I could bench 365 and looked it. I was genuinely scary looking enough to make normal people uncomfortable when I walked into the room. Spare me your bleating about being profiled. That is simply human beings paying attention to their surroundings, which has been genetically coded into the very foundations of our grey matter.  http://monsterhunternation.com/2013/07/22/on-profiling-and-stand-your-ground/ […]

trackback

[…] Stand out? Hell, when I grow out my Duck Dynasty beard I can pass for the twin brother of one of the terrorists we just let out of Gitmo. I’m 6’5” and when I was young I could bench 365 and looked it. I was genuinely scary looking enough to make normal people uncomfortable when I walked into the room. Spare me your bleating about being profiled. That is simply human beings paying attention to their surroundings, which has been genetically coded into the very foundations of our grey matter.  http://monsterhunternation.com/2013/07/22/on-profiling-and-stand-your-ground/ […]

Reziac
Guest
1 year 9 months ago

Montana’s SYG law was recently amended to add a “no duty to retreat” clause that covers person, occupied space (ie. your home), and property.

The law is about as simple as it can be:

http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/45/3/45-3-110.htm

wpDiscuz