Monster Hunter Nation

HK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

An open letter to the gun community from HK’s marketing department: In a world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards…But it doesn’t matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you.

At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to sell it to civilians. Because you suck, and we hate you.

Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn’t fit any accessories known to man, but that is your fault. If you were a real operator, you would love it. Once again, look at Rainbow Six, that G36 sure is cool isn’t it? Yeah, you know you want one.And by the way, check out our new HK45. We decided that humans don’t need to release the magazine with their thumbs. If you were a really manly teutonic operator, you would be able to reach the controls. Plus we’ve fired 100,000,000 rounds through one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a lake of molten lava, on the moon. If you don’t believe us, it is because you aren’t a real operator.

By the way, our cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns like the G3 and MP5 are the bestest things ever, and totally worth asinine scalpers prices, but note that cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns from other countries are commie garbage. Not that it matters, because you’re civilians, so we won’t sell them to you anyway. Because you suck, and we hate you, but we know you’ll be back. We can beat you down like a trailer park wife, but you’ll come back, you always do.

Buy our stuff.

Sincerely

HK Marketing DepartmentHK.  Because you suck.  And we hate you. 

I don’t know if you can tell, but I’m not the biggest fan of H und K.  I posted that letter on THR a long time ago as a joke, but it sure did manage to tick a lot of people off.  Ironically, the tag line, HK.  Because you suck.  And we hate you, has been popping up in various places ever since. 

Sure, they’re decently reliable, decently accurate guns, but they’re massively overpriced and overrated by legions of fan boys.  One of the most frustrating things about dealing with gun people on the interweb is that folks tend to pick a brand, and then base some of their self-esteem on that brand.  Kind of like rabid sports fans who feel the need to burn cars if their team wins, or loses, or they just felt like burning stuff.   Say something negative about that team to one of those rabid fans, and you’re probably going to get beat up.  Likewise, if you say anything negative about the Teutonic superiority of HK, people get mad at you. 

Well, I love hate mail, so here goes. 

For each of their wunder guns, you can get something else that costs a lot less, and works better, and has ergonomics designed by people that actually shoot.   HK came about when some Nazis fled to Spain and built the Cetme.  But Cetme doesn’t sound very tough, does it?  So they went back to Germany and became H and K, and if you call it H and K, fan boys will get mad, and insist that it is HK, because manly Teutonic operators and Navy SEALs don’t have time to say the word And.  So HK rose to prominence by building the G3, which is what the Germans call the Cetme.

Now the G3 is a decent rifle.  It is a cheap, stamped sheet metal, battle rifle.  It has terrible ergonomics, with a hard to use safety, (and this is coming from a guy with gorilla hands), and difficult to use charging handle.  It is reliable, because of the roller locking bolt that destroys your brass, and recoils worse than other competing .308 rifles.  The FAL smokes the G3, and the only reason the G3 exists is because the Germans were too proud to pay royalties to those uppity Belgians. 

The G3 can be really accurate, if you weld a bunch of metal to the sides of it, stick on a nice barrel, and jack the price up $10,000.  And no, that’s not a typo.  The PSG1 is absurdly priced, and the cheaper version, the MSG90 is proof that if make anything absurdly heavy enough, it can be accurate. 

There is a collapsible stock available, which is awesome, if you like getting hit in the face with a piece of rebar, which is what their $400 stock feels like when you shoot it.  Germans must be tougher than we are or something.

Other stamped, sheet metal guns exist, but HK fan boys mock those as commie garbage.  See, if you build a cheap gun, but it is from Germany, then it is superior, but if you build a stamped gun in the eastern block (a hundred miles from Germany) then it is commie garbage. 

But what brought HK to international fame and the cover of Dick Marcinko books (for example, Rogue Force Delta Green Team 7 Ninja Force Alpha II:  The beginning)  was the G3s little brother, the MP5.  Take a G3, shrink it, and chamber it in 9mm.  At the time, CQB doctrine was to use 9mm subguns.  Now the MP5 is a neat little gun.  I have two.  They work well, and if compared to the other subguns of the day, like the Uzi or the Mac, then the MP5 was a lot easier to use, easier to hit with, and was decently reliable. 

The MP5 became famous when the SAS used them to kick the living hell out of some bad guys at the Iranian embassy.  This was marketing gold, and HK rode the wave.  Pretty soon everybody wanted an MP5.  It was what all the cool kids were using.  Soon every video game and action movie was filled with HK stuff.  HK may have overrated guns, but they’ve got the best marketing department in the gun business, and they milked that fee cow until it was dry. 

But the MP5 isn’t as great as people make them out to be.  They still malfunction.  (if you’re favorite gun hasn’t malfed, you haven’t shot it enough).  The mags are hard to insert on a closed bolt.  Safety still sucks.  Most versions don’t have a bolt hold open.  Honestly, if I had to get into a gunfight with a subgun, then I would rather have my PPsH. 

HK long guns were mostly unobtainable to US civilians, primarily because HK hates the civilian market.  If you don’t believe me, go talk to them at SHOT show, and watch them sneer at regular people.  They can’t help themselves.   But like all unobtainable things, like Ferraris, and super models, regular folks start to imagine these unobtainable things as perfection, when really they’re just an expensive car that spends most of its time in the shop, or a chick with mental problems and Bulimia.  That’s what happened with HK.  Their products took on this aura of coolness amongst the fans, that just isn’t real. 

For example, go to any thread on the internet where somebody brings up “What is the Best Rifle EVAR!”  and there is a poll.  On the poll will be some HK long guns that 99.85% of the gun owning public has never seen, let alone shot, but those guns will have the most votes, because the HK marketing department told you how awesome they are. 

Read up about the XM8 on most gun boards.  According to the interweb, the XM8 is the finest combat implement of all time.  In actuality it is a plastic AR18, that tends to melt, break, and is universally loathed by the Army staff that had to test it.  It takes bizarre attachments, so no US accessories will work.  They took the G36, which is basically a blah rifle, used by a handful of countries that don’t ever actually shoot people, and uglied it up so that it looks like the demented lovechild of Bloaty the Pizza Hog and a Super-Soaker.

Or the HK416. According to the internet, the HK416 is the best gun EVER!  It is called THE AWESOME.  Lightning bolts of coolness fly from the gun and smite your enemies with Teutonic fury!  However you can’t have one, because you’re a civilian, ergo, you suck.  And HK hates you.

The 416 is basically an AR with a gas piston, which has been done by like ten companies now, but somehow the HK is better, because it was on Future Weapons, and HK won’t sell it to civilians.  In fact, a couple of 416s slipped out into civilian hands, and HK freaked out about it.  There is no legal reason that 416 uppers can’t be sold, but HK despises regular people, and the idea of you having their long guns offends them.

You can get civilian HK long guns, once in a while, when HK feels like it, but they’re usually hyper-neutered and over priced.  Hell, the last ones were actually grey, because you know, black is too dangerous, or something.

HK’s new subgun is the UMP.  They tend to break.  One of our local PDs traded all of theirs in after they broke all the stocks.  Cool idea, because everybody loves .45, but bad execution.

HK’s flagship pistols, the USP line, are decent polymer handguns.  They are extremely reliable, that is the plus side.  On the down side, their triggers universally suck, but they don’t have to.  HK likes to use a square peg in a round hole, (literally) that makes the trigger pull a lot heavier and grittier than it needs to be.  Why?  Beats the heck out of me.  The USP series should be reliable, they’re enormous. 

The most annoying thing about the HK pistols is how they cost almost twice as much as every other polymer handgun on the market.  Somehow being made in Germany means the USP series is worth $800-$1000, when all of the polymer guns made within a thousand miles are $400-$600.  Only most of those guns tend to have better triggers, are just as reliable, and are usually more accurate.

Then there is the Mk23.  Which is huge, accurate, reliable, (which it damn well better be, since it is the size and weight of a Mini-14) costs as much as a used car, huge, and is universally despised by the SF that it is issued to.  Talk to anyone that is in an SF unit.  The Mk23s they’ve been issued sit unused in arms room.  Did I mention that it is HUGE?  But that’s okay, because the HK fan boys will explain that it is an OFFENSIVE handgun.   (scratches head) whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.  

They are reliable, but so is a $125 Makarov.  Only the Mak has a better trigger.

I have two guys that I work with that have been to the HK armorer’s school.  If you think I’m biased, you should talk to them.  They especially love working with the Germans.  One fellow was yelled at because he had two magazines clamped together on his MP5, because “NEIN!  That is not the H und K way!”  Even though he had bought the mag clamp from HK.  When you ask why the original MP5 doesn’t have a last shot bolt hold open, they’ll yell at you and say, “NEIN! Why would you want your enemy to know your gun is empty!”  Hell, Hans, I just want to know when my gun is empty!

One friend of mine took his personal MP5, and cut an extra notch into the collapsible stock, so it would be shorter for when he was wearing his armor, and also it removed the nasty wobble that all HK collapsible stocks have.  It is an easy fix, and a no-brainer that the HK should have been doing for years.  Fritz at the armorer’s school damn near had an aneurism when he saw this blasphemy against his ineffectual German gods.  

Look, gun owning public, just because you saw it on Future Weapons, or read about it on the internet, doesn’t make it true.  For the love of John Moses Browning, before you formulate super strong opinions about a weapon, you should have at least shot the damn thing first.

 Do I have anything positive to say about HK?  Yes, the sneer of disdain they give you at SHOT is priceless and entertaining.

Edit: My book, Monster Hunter International, is available now on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0741444569/ref=s9_asin_title_wishf_r4-f9_p_c_f_p-2785_g1?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1EXBBDFCRIV04&colid=3QAUVGDWI48Y7&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=right-4&pf_rd_r=0YJY8KAT16R6R571HXSP&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=362209101&pf_rd_i=507846

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493 Comments on "HK. Because you suck. And we hate you."


Guest
Jim
7 years 9 months ago

I could be wrong but I believe when the Germans approached the Belgians about licensing the FAL the Belgians thumbed their noses at the Krauts, gave them the Hawaiian good luck sign and sent them packing. Something to do with an invasion in 1914 and AGAIN in 1940. I owned a CETME for a short time and was truly underwhelmed, dumped it and bought another FAL. Can’t have too many of those, can you?

Guest
Mike
5 years 3 months ago

LOL, I was on the floor laughing reading thru all of this. Mainly because it’s mostly true! HAHA

Although after reading it all I kinda feel bad that I like H&K at all :D

I have actually shot a G36K (full auto and semi) and very much enjoyed it. I liked the optics they used on it, and was reasonably accurate with it despite my inexperience with such firearms.
If I could have I probably would’ve bought a civilian version on the spot right there… but HAHA sucks to be me, those are illegal!

However, I may be biased since that’s the only full auto rifle I’ve ever shot so I have nothing to compare it to.

The only guns I do own are a Sig556, which I got because hey… H&K doesn’t sell to civi’s (The Swiss seem to be way more lax with their firearms than the Teutonic Knights of coolness) and a Springfield 1911A1.

lol this was a great read i laughed my ass off!

Guest
flashman
7 years 9 months ago

You forgot that Jack Bauer uses a USP. Seriously, I understand your point – I feel that way about BMWs. But I do like my H&K handguns, so it’s probably good that I’ve never had to deal with Hans and Franz at the SHOT show.

Guest
Scott
5 years 10 months ago

I also own an HK, P30
l love it, it is the best weapon I have ever shot for low recoil, accuracy, ergonomics in the hand, etc.

Guest
Omega Man
7 years 9 months ago

Well if you hate HK’s, what do you love?

I have zero experience with any HK product so I couldn’t say yay or nay about them.

Guest

[…] Larry Correia reminds me why I don’t own any H&K products: Because I suck, and HK hates me. […]

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

FNH, Browning, SIG, Kimber, STI, Glock even (cough), Springfield, S&W… Hell, even the poly framed Baby Eagles are better handguns that the HKs. I reviewed one of the new P2000 pistols and while it was about 200 more than most other pistols of the class, it was only average. I used the phrase Perfectly Adequate and HK flipped out.
HK spends too much time posing for video game covers.

Guest
Rick
2 years 6 months ago

One has to wonder if anyone making comment detriment of the HK, Particularly the MP5 – MP5/10 has ever had to actually put their lives on the line with one. Some guns, as with HK are actually made just for military or police service, so wailing about HK´s policies of not selling to civilians is irrelevant and much of the reason for such negative response to HK weapons. This in light means that the negative comments have no factual basis other than sour grapes. For those of us who never used these in civilian life, but used them in service of protection of civilians for 25 years +, I can only say how wrong you guys are. We have had the greatest array of weaponry available to us, and yet we always chose the MP5 – MP5/10 as our weapon of choice at CQB. There is a reason why we chose this weapon in particular, being reliability, functionality, hitting power, and surround concideration. Modifications over past years to the MP5 including chambering 10mm was just one concidersation in form for military and law enforcement agencies. Surprisingly, this did not make handling of the weapon any different but did make a big difference to the recipient. A promise fullfilled, so no complaints about HK service there. For those that want to complain about pricing, there is another old addage. That which is cheap is seldom good and that which is good is seldom cheap. HK come under this. Its good that the price is too high for the majority of civilians. This is the servicemans protection. Thank you HK for valuing the intended for use from those that could become deadlier to us if having your weaponry. Another HK service value. Not every weapon was made for civilian use, and therefore, no civilian is either competant or reliable in source evaluation. This in particular relates to people like correia45 blogging about guns that in actuality, he has never fired in anger, or had fired back at him. As for the comparrison of HK USP and SIG sidearms…..The USP is the man in the knows weapon of choice. And better still, and personal preference is the old favourite browning 9mm highpower. Who ever said shooting firearms should be comfortable. They were not designed for soft c**ks…but for men with a distasteful job to do. Never heard an operator complain about his gun kicks too much. About to crack up laughing here lol Didnt mothers ever teach you ¨If it hurts, dont do it.¨ Leave guns for those that intend to use them for what purpose they were designed and let them say what is best. Hk actually spends too much time in developement and customer service to those that matter rather than pandering to the light hearted civilian wannabe´s. There is far more to gun concideration than what is read from books. It all boils down to what keeps you alive in the field. For that, nothing compares to HK in the anti terrorism field. A big thank you to HK from those its services and supplies have kept alive. An even bigger thank you from those civilians that are alive today due to their supperb performance. Who cares what you shoot targets with lol.

Guest
2 years 6 months ago

Suck harder. You don’t want to spill any.

Guest
Geodkyt
2 years 5 months ago

Is this Gecko45 respawned?

Guest
AK
2 years 5 months ago

A loyal acolyte of the cult of hk let me sum up it up “i am a superiorly manly teutonic man you are are a civilian and therefore suck and i hate you”

Guest
2 years 2 months ago

LMAOROTF!!!!

Guest
nate
2 years 2 months ago

Rick- there is no reason that civillians should not be able to own semi-auto firearms. The fact that they make this distinction lends one to agree that they beleive they are superior.

Guest
Mike Hatcher
1 year 10 months ago

The mere fact that police refer to the general public and citizens as “civilians” is a real problem as they themselves are, in fact, civilians. Cops do not get to be the military, at least not in the USA. It sure doesn’t seem to stop them from thinking they are. Police should *NEVER* have access to weaponry that us “civilians” do not also have access to. Otherwise, the entire principle of not permitting military dominion over domestic issues is violated by allowing the police to become a military force. The police were never intended to be able to be any “deadlier” than any other “civilian” which is why you all get to be classified as civilians just like the rest of us.

Guest
Benji
1 year 8 months ago

Not a big proponent of the 2nd amendment are you there chief? The founding fathers would be rolling in their graves at your comment

Guest
Korruptor23
1 year 8 months ago

I’m going to guess that English is not your primary language, suggested by a number of gaffs made, namely ‘surround consideration.’

Truly, anyone shooting an MP5 already knows that 9mm will more than readily over penetrate the human body, posing a material threat to innocents and unintended targets downrange. Thus your purported argument to HKs claim of “valuing the intended for use from those that could become deadlier to us if having your weaponry” is utterly destroyed. Had you ever fired a weapon as you purportedly claimed you would have realized this distinction. If what you had claimed been true, HK wouldn’t be a leading contender in firearms used by genocidal world powers the world over, following the AK.

Had you meant ‘sound suppression,’ well, the super sonic crack accompanying the 9mm is much more easily moderated on a .45 caliber platform, of which the Vector KRISS is the single most outstanding piece of innovation since the Hi-Power.

Yet we always chose the MP5 – MP5/10 as our weapon of choice at CQB.

Again, outmoded information, as your purported service life suggests barring the more recent innovations and improvements recently seen in the weapons field, and the training and logistics field. The proof of these invalidations are inherent to modern HK design, see the MP7, a hybridization of the UZI platform and the armor penetration properties of the 5.56 and 5.7 wrapped around their famed roller-lock design. Both prime the UZI and 5.7 FN platforms are notable their for concealability and Kevlar armor penetration. Your statements in support of the MP5 merely point to the age old misconceptions of militaries the world over of ‘preparing to fight yesterdays wars.’

Its good that the price is too high for the majority of civilians. This is the servicemans protection.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. The Jews of NAZI Germany depended upon the protection of Hitler’s police, it failed them egregiously. The majority of deaths in the 20th and 21st century, some 250 million lives, died at the hands of their own government. History teaches us that wolves always wear the sheep’s clothing, and thus neither the government nor the police are ever to be trusted of infallibility.

Not every weapon was made for civilian use, and therefore, no civilian is either competant or reliable in source evaluation.

Again, you fail to realize that every soldier that fields a rifle, mans an artillery battery, or police that pulls a pistol, are all citizens and civilians when out of uniform. They do not drive tanks home, do not put their machine-guns and grenades in the closet. Your ‘soldiers and police’ are only such when their are duly uniformed and employed, and responsibly armed. Thus your very definition of them is inherently no different than that of a mercenary nor a sovereign citizen. You also fail to realize that training, truly the only thing that defines the average citizen from the competent professional, is readily had, especially in the US. You also fail to realize the outmoding of the traditional warrior, artillery, drone tanks, UAVs, controllable by an Xbox controller. 5 yr-olds explicitly understand how to use a controller, further marginalizing your vaunted warrior caste.

This in particular relates to people like correia45 blogging about guns that in actuality, he has never fired in anger, or had fired back at him.

Considering firing in anger is rife with problems, such as loss of mental acuity, loss of awareness, failing to fulfill the legal requirements for use of deadly force, your statement in itself indicts your purported usage and background. Then, should your statement refer to usage under duress that one becomes a big slobbering idiot incapable of fine motor control, well, anything an trained idiot can do an untrained civilian is easily capable of figuring out. Plus, if big fat fingers are needed to manipulate big fat controls, your argument again fails as of necessity the reverse is equally true. Lastly, impugning the author’s credibility, especially when proving none yourself, while low, hardly accredits your accusation. Such as… Tom Clancy.

The USP is the man in the knows weapon of choice. And better still, and personal preference is the old favourite Browning 9mm High Power.

Sorry, pistol technology essentially reached it’s pinnacle in the Hi-Power, and the only real reason it’s not offered is because of licensing rights and profit margins.

Who ever said shooting firearms should be comfortable. They were not designed for soft c**ks…but for men with a distasteful job to do. Never heard an operator complain about his gun kicks too much.

More suggestions that lend itself to impugning your self-purported history. Comfort leads to ease of use, then to familiarity, to dexterity, to increased efficiency, and finally lethality. The designs of all the worlds invents all lend themselves to a few primal truths, form follows function, and the customer is the primary consideration. If the customer can’t shoot it, can’t shoulder it, or otherwise destroys themselves in the process of using it, that company will never stay in business long.

For that, nothing compares to HK in the anti-terrorism field.

Unfortunately for your argument, HK doesn’t do anti-terrorism, the Bundesgrenzschutz, now the Bundespolizei, do, who in and of themselves have some very prominent failures, which can only point out that tools are tools and thus replaceable and interchangeable, it is the men who do the job that are the real weapon.

In short, your arguments are all based upon specious logic and outmoded information. You would do well to invest in the time to research more pertinent developments, such as the author has done and is paid to do, than depending upon what are essentially old-wives tales to bulwark your chosen profession and branded line.

Have a nice day, Hanz Rickman.

Guest
logic bomb
1 year 8 months ago

Hilarious waste of time – was there a point somewhere in all that desperate grasping? How long will you continue to look stupid by arguing that you know more than Seal Team Six or their colleagues? And multiple aliases aren’t helping support your premise either,.. “Hanz”

Guest
1 year 8 months ago

SEALs usually use variations of the US-designed M4, M14 and AR10. Thanks for playing.

Guest
Korruptor23
1 year 6 months ago

@Logic Bomb since it seems impossible to point out your failures under normal protocols.

Triple fail, and here’s how:

First, as the name is in the same line as the statement, following a comma, the name is clearly addressing another, instead of a statement of authorship. It is not a signature, which would be redundant considering the tagging of all posts with one’s name at the header. Had it been a statement of authorship, there instead would have been a period and a separate line for the name.

You have failed at the English language of a mere 4th-grade level, basic internet, and basic logic.

Second, because you failed to realize this simple truth, you presume that I am signing my own name, instead of the play on words it logically is since the person to whom the response is penned is self-named ‘Rick,’ not a ‘Hanz Rickman.’ In failing that, you cannot grasp at the layered meaning behind such appellation.

Again, you’ve failed at English, of an 9th-grade level.

Third, a simple Google search, which should be done upon any name provided since only uni-bombers and school shooters are without an internet presence on FB or the like, on the interesting appellation ‘Hanz Rickman,’ would very quickly reference a ‘Hanz Gruber,’ a feverish German narcissist played by a young Alan Rickman in Die Hard. Comparisons betwixt the two are then easily made, thus revealing the fully the play on words for what they were.

Thus, you fail at at American pop culture, and your Google-fu is mediocre.

Lastly:

Look stupid by arguing that you know more than Seal Team Six or their colleagues.

This of course presumes that either you, or Rick, in fact have said knowledge. Which you neither support Rick’s two to three decades at-best outmoded information, himself claiming at best police work – hardly comparable with the special operations community, nor present your own for verification. The march of history and technology has a simple lesson, those stuck in the past become grist for the future. Since you have not even a formulated opinion to present, nor the wherewithal to attempt to rebut mine, it can only be stated that you have neither the capability nor the knowledge necessary to do so, and thus have no basis upon which to proffer a valid opinion.

As you are clearly unaware:

SEAL Team 6 was dissolved in 1987. The Navy then established the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, also known as DEVGRU. While DEVGRU is administratively supported by Naval Special Warfare Command, they are operationally under the command of the Joint Special Operations Command.
– from Wikipedia

Also, if your concern was DEVGRU use of H und K weaponry, the conflicting reports regarding their usage is in and of itself interesting, but what was always obvious to me is the desire for a 15 bullet stack of .45 ACP. Clearly, the concern isn’t about platform, but about stopping power, something you’ve also failed to grasp, especially at word the USMC has sought to return to the M1911.

Have a nice day, grasshopper.

Guest
GharmaisKaqrma
25 days 8 hours ago

Your point is made but Goddamn quit being a grammar Nazi. If you like English then go teach middle school English. Leave the JSOC to the operators. Hk makes some of the best quality firearms for what we do. Did I accidentally misplace a comma? Oh, and were fucking JSOC along with SO paramilitary officers from DoD. Also, when we drop a JDAM and innocent civs die, what do you think “valuing the intended for use from those that could become deadlier to us if having your weaponry,” really is?

Guest
1 year 2 months ago

What K&K is doing (b/c they still have the market domination to do it!) is precisely what Colt did throughout much of the 1980’s/1990’s and early into the last decade. They made plenty from LE/Govt. sales that they stopped giving a shit about their civvy market. The AA 2000 and Double Eagle .45 are proof of that. The mistake that the krauts have yet to make is to let their QC slip like Colt did, though with their pricing and customer service being even worse than Colt’s BITD.

Guest
reality
9 months 6 days ago

You are a clown, Fritz, other small arms will kill a person just as dead as an hk. To say civilians don’t deserve it just proves the point. Maybe yout authoritarian view of the 2a would be better suited in the 3rd reich.

Guest
9 months 5 days ago

Godwin’s Law…

Guest
Steven T
7 years 9 months ago

I love my HK. The reason I got it is so I don’t have to clean it, and it still works well. Except for that time when I had to change the spring to a 24# spring. Now I don’t have to ever change the spring again.

If you know how I shoot, I abuse my guns. I’m not supposed to have nice guns but all other guns have malfunctioned on me more than once. I think I can jam any gun and so far I’ve jammed everyone that I’ve touched.

HK Rules, but they still hate me.

Guest
LoveMyM1G
2 years 7 months ago

if you dont clean your gun you are damn right it will malfunction, its a tool like a blade, you have to clean it to keep it honed to its purpose

Guest
Steven T
7 years 9 months ago

I love my HK. The reason I got it is so I don’t have to clean it, and it still works well. Except for that time when I had to change the spring to a 24# spring. Now I don’t have to ever change the spring again.

If you know how I shoot, I abuse my guns. I’m not supposed to have nice guns but all other guns have malfunctioned on me more than once. I think I can jam any gun and so far I’ve jammed everyone that I’ve touched.

HK Rules, but they still hate me and I still suck.

Guest
Scott Roberts
7 years 9 months ago

Sorry, I’m laughing too hard to post anything serious…

Well, I’ll try – Don’t forget the MP7 “PDW” that shoots hyper-velocity grains of rice that travel for 16 miles like a laser beam with 0 drop. It is the only weapon that SuperMan fears as it can penetrate any armor in the known universe.

Guest
C rai SA
2 years 10 months ago

it’s certainly useful for making pin holes in soft armor at 300 yds.
perhaps they’ll release a pistol version like the Five-seveN, at there usually laughable prices

Guest
Geronimo45
7 years 9 months ago

“just because you saw it on Future Weapons… doesn’t make it true.”
It wasn’t just seen on Future Weapons. It was *whispered* about.

Guest
toasterlocker
7 years 9 months ago

I agree that the price of HKs are generally way too much, and the attitude of the company sucks, but I LOVE the mag release. The only other gun that has a similar release (that I have found anyway) is the Walther P99. My thumb can’t reach on a lot of “normal” guns, but my trigger finger works great with the release on HKs and Walthers.

Otherwise, I agree with you on pretty much everything about HK, nice article.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

See, now this puts me in a little bind…

Spoon has told me that I can buy myself ANY full-auto that I can afford (which will be awhile). The only problem is, I have to buy her an MP-5 first. She shot one at a fund-raiser in Milwaukee, and that just clinched it. I TRIED steering her twords a (much cheaper) mini-Uzi, but she’s balking…

Any advice?

Guest
Steve S
7 years 9 months ago

I agree 100%. I am a slow learner, so I have bought 3 different HK’s and was never all that happy with any of them. In the case of two of them (an SP 89 and a USC), I was able to sell them for more than I paid, so I am happy that there are others that like them.

I’ll admit that some of their newer handguns look nice, but there are so many other products out there from companies that are willing to sell us “assault” rifles.

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Billy Sparks
7 years 9 months ago

I once had a USP9 but then I realized my hands would never be big enough for it. The only H&K guns I seem to like are the P7’s but they have the added benefit that after you fire 50 rounds medium speed you can cook a steak on the dust cover.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

Yes, I’m planning on collecting my due Sneerage at SHOT. I don’t feel right if I don’t get it. The HK Sneer is almost as rarified as the sneers I get from Glock.

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Marcus
7 years 9 months ago

The MP-5 is a good gun for shooting small dogs, women and children. It is fun to shoot and uses the less lethal 9mm round. I can see why chicks dig it.

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Dion
7 years 9 months ago

I purchased an SL7 back in 84 for about $300. Thanks to the H und K frenzy I will be selling it this weekend for $1200.
Got to love those marketing guys!
How about the tyrigger pull on my old VP70z. I remeber it weighing in at about 18 lbs.

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Nick
7 years 9 months ago

H&K weapons are generally on my “If I were a millionaire” shopping list. I own a CETME, and I actually love it (probably cause I don’t reload–it does fuck up the brass pretty good, especially commercial .308 brass), and I’ve fired the USP and USP compact, and liked the full sized one (probably cause I’m 6’6″ and my hands are large). They make good weapons, but not worth the price at all. Though I would love to have an MP5 in 10mm. Say what you will about H&K, that’d be fucking awesome.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

An MP5 in 10mm…
Sorry, had to wipe off the drool running from my chin.

I like G3s and would like to have one, but I’m too cheap.

Guest
redeux
7 years 9 months ago

i have 1 hk left , a p2k-40sw…
you are soooo right-on about the attitude …
the p2k does seem to be flawless , and i like the mag release (somehow it just works for me )…
my 91 didn’t seem to be any worse recoil wise than my fal or m1a , at least not enough that i ever noticed…
i prefer the AK series to all of them…
i’ll stay with the p2k cause it works , and i don’t have to baby it or worry about it , unlike the 1911’s and glocks and smiths i’ve owned…
are they the best at everything ?
hell , no … the russki stuff is currently way more reliable (ymmv) and trouble-free in the longguns …
is hk really worth all the effort it took to type that snark ?

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

Wonderful rant.

I love my USP. I bought it slightly used when they were first new – when H&K was desperate to break into the US civilian market as the German merger savaged their arms sales.

It was a different time. The US civilian market was the only place where they could be saved… And they were very interested in our business.

But I can buy a Glock with 5 mags for almost what 5 mags for the H&K cost now.

Tis a shame, I still think the USP is the best, straight out of the box gun I’ve ever shot or held. But it’s the last H&K I’m going to be buying.

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Steven T
7 years 9 months ago

The best way to buy an HK is used. Back in the day I bought 2 SS USP’s with some gear for $1400. Sold the gear for 300 and sold one of the USP’s for 800. So, for the USP that I have, plus the 8 extra mags the guy gave me, I was only out about $300.

Then there was the time that Sportsman’s had a USP Lefty on sale for $525. Picked that up and sold it for $700.

I think paying $700+ for a gun is normal since it seams that all my guns cost more than that. I felt I was slumming it when I bought an XD because it cost so little.

So the point is, if you get people to start paying lots for a gun to begin with, they’ll have no problem doing it in the future.

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Alex
7 years 9 months ago

I once had the pleasure of firing my friend’s $3000 scoped G3. The rolling block mechanism may be utterly reliable, but the only thing stopping that bolt at the end of its travel is apparently your shoulder when it slams into it! We were shooting at the leftmost rifle lane but when we were done, we found mangled brass in the berm to the right of the rightmost lane! Of course, if you’re shooting commie invaders as fast as you can, utter reliability may be more at the forefront of your mind than reloading or where your brass ends up.

I don’t own and HK products and am not planning on ownying any HK products.

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Murcielago
7 years 9 months ago

Man, I’ve re-read this about ten times today, because it is so true. There’s a chick I work with who’s in love with her USP; when I ask her what her USP has over my Glock, she’s unable to give me a rational answer. But it’s an H&K — it must be better. . . .

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

I sold my full-size USP .45. It was just too huge. I’m getting close to buying a #2 Captains of Crush gripper, but trying to reach the thumb safety on that monster just plain defeated me.

It was a neato gun and all, but it wasn’t working for me.

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NC
7 years 9 months ago

Someone asked what does an HK have over a Glock?

Slighly less horrid ergonomics? Hee hee.

Those Teutons must have large, square hands, or perhaps an extra nuckle on each finger, allowing them to form their hands into a perfect box shape.

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kdogg
7 years 9 months ago

When I read things like this I always think that the writer is just pissy he can’t have the gun he wants or can’t afford it.

I’ll use the 416 for example. I REALLY want one. I’m a big HK fan but at the same time I’m not all pissy about not being able to have one. HK doesn’t want my money? Screw them, I’ll go buy an LWRC. Same type of gun, same reliability and LWRC wants my money and wants to give me good customer service.

HK’s loss but no reason to get pissy.

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Porter Glockwell
7 years 9 months ago

Dude, best post ever. Had me rolling.

Porter

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NC
7 years 9 months ago

Well Mr. Correia, just how much is your life worth to you? If you valued your life, you’d see that HK was worth the price.

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Erik
3 years 10 months ago

No, I’d buy a goddamn Glock Gen III. Higher level of reliability. 1/3 the price (used), and a better trigger.

Fuck HK.

Guest
Erik
3 years 10 months ago

Oh, and before anybody accuses me of being a Glock fanboi,

I hate them too. I’d rather be shooting my 1911 or Smith wheelguns, but I’m comparing another Teutonic firearm that I personally think is a much better weapon.

Guest
2 years 2 months ago

Remington 870 firing 2&3/4 mag shells loaded with modded sabot 410 slugs. Amazing what you can do with Laws of Physics, especially Kinetic Energy Equations. It doesn’t have a damm thing to do with $$, it has to do with your ability to be lethal in defense of your life. Welcome to Texas

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

thinking about it, we NEED shirts with that logo!

“HK. Because you suck, and we hate you”

PRICELESS!

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Choclabman
7 years 9 months ago

I curently own a total of 6 HK pistol, and one HK rifle.
While I love HK pistols, I prefer DSA FALS.
I have over the years, tried all the other brands and their different models.
For pistols, HK is the brand I prefer.

I will say this.
You bring up very valid points about HK’s attitude toward civilians.
Overall, a good rant.

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Trebor
7 years 9 months ago

Ah, I see you managed to draw out the HK fanboys with this post.

As an instructor I see my students bring in a lot of different guns. I’ve seen HK’s pistols fail at about the same rate as the other major brands.

You want to know the most reliable auto-pistols I see come through my classes? It’s not any of the HK guns. It’s not even the Glocks. The Ruger centerfire autopistols are the most consistently reliable guns I see. I’ve literally yet to see a student have a malfunction with a Ruger centerfire semi-auto. I can’t say that for any other brand.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

“Well Mr. Correia, just how much is your life worth to you? If you valued your life, you’d see that HK was worth the price.”

I value my life, and the FN-FNP40 I bought is worth the price. (For about $400 less than an HK.)

We won’t even discuss the price differential between a CZ 75 and an HK — but the CZ is worth the price.

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fergie
7 years 9 months ago

I’m glad someone else has noticed this teutonic/ homoerotic slop that H&K and Glock have been shoveling for years.
Yes, I’ve used the MP5 extensively, being issued one in the service. Sure, it’s a great gun, but worth only about 1/2 it’s asking price and certainly not the teutonic uber-blaster it’s touted to be. Man does it sling the brass! a tooth chipper for sure when hit by flying brass in CQB shooting houses!
I own the USP9, but only because I got it new for $450 back during comrade Klinton’s “fear of guns” tour. It seemed the shop owner couldn’t sell such a large 10 shot 9mm….Any how, it’s extremely accurate, however it will not shoot any speer clean fire ammo(hard primers?) nor many of the other “Al Gore’s wet dream eco-ammo” it just doesn’t hit the primers hard enough. Size? Yeah maybe the samsonite gorillas could reach the trigger in d.a. mode, but I’m a little guy and used to carry it in c-1 “locked &cocked” ,however once I found a CZ-P01, the USP9 is rarely shot now.
Yes I think the CZ-P01 & Browning Hi-Power are, in fact, better pistols. Hell, given the choice, i’d snatch up my old 4-inch S&W M19 combat magnum for “all hell’s broken loose” use long before i’d grab the “Dick Tracy cartoon square gun” USP9. Don’t even get me started on the “sculpted turd-guns” g-36 & xm-8. I’ve shot the G-36 and it is most definitley NOT the “end-all, be-all” of man-killers. Think of it as being an AR-18 w/ an outer shell desgned by Legos & StarshipTroopers.
I’d rather be teamed up w/ a 70-something yr.old Korean war vet who’s carrying a .30-30 levergun and a four inch .38 revolver, when things get rough than any three young 25-35 yr old corpulent “gear queers” with all the latest H&K/Glock/5.11/Blackhawk, blah blah kool-aid drinking silliness, all the while giving each other high-5s and bragging about ” did you see my moves?/ did I look cool?” .
Just focus on the following: basic infantry skills, physical fitness, marksmanship, “fighting smarter not harder” / “low-tech is high-tech” and not being so gear dependent. Everything else will fall in to place after that.
As one can tell I don’t really hold Hitler’s little sisters at H&K and Glock in very high regard. OOPS! HAVE I BEEN RANTING? Sorry….no really I apologize…hahaha!

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fergie
7 years 9 months ago

Oh by the way, before some P.C. ninny starts complaining that i’m disparaging Korean war vets…..HELL NO I’M ABSOLUTELY NOT!
My point is; that even though they might be of advanced age, I would absolutely trust my life to a vet of such a hard fought campaign, whose only using minimalist equipment long before I’d trust my life to a bunch of over-stuffed, buzz-cut/ ridiculous armchair commandos who think that just because they have the latest “war-fighting fashions”, they saw in the latest glamour gun rag, that they are ready to live out their “chubby hometown-heroes” fantasies…… I’d hate for you to think I’m a “troll” or what ever the blogging catch phrase is, it’s just that I’m tired of seeing so much bullshit being promoted by “Walter Mitty” types all over the internet. That is why I come to your site, Mad Ogre and Kim DuToit’s, for the fresh air and no bull shit mindset, you all share. thanks!

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

Well Mr. Correia, just how much is your life worth to you? If you valued your life, you’d see that HK was worth the price.

Wow.

I’m convinced!

I think I’ll sell the pistol on my hip and go buy three used Ultimate Sellout Pistols with the proceeds.

You need a :rolleyes: smiley for times like this…

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

I must not value my life very much at all, then…seeing how I trust it to that S&W six-shooter antique on my hip.

In all seriousness, H&K pistols are okay. Had a P7M8 and a USPc once upon a time, and they worked well. But contrary to some people’s beliefs, they’re not quenched with the blood of dragons deep in the Black Forest, and they have no magical properties. They’re just machines, and the notion that one somehow doesn’t value their life by not carrying one is a little silly.

It’s the shooter, not the gun, sport.

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Rick
2 years 6 months ago

Actually its neither……nothing compares to trsaining and experience. !!

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Tomy Ironmane
2 years 4 months ago

Oh Goood… I’m not the only one who loves their old S&W… To be fair, my dad picked it out for me before mom pushed me out, and it’s a 29 with the long barrel… it’s big, it’s heavy – all steel construction – , I’ll never be able to conceal it, and it still barks fire and kicks like a mule… but one round of .44 mag will do what two or three rounds of 9mm will do, assuming the shooter does their part.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

HK longarms are just inferior and over-priced copies of the original CETME.

Hype won’t save your life.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

The Ruger centerfire autopistols are the most consistently reliable guns I see. I’ve literally yet to see a student have a malfunction with a Ruger centerfire semi-auto

I rarely mention it because I feel when I do I must duck my head lest I be bludgeoned by flying self-righteousness…but my carry gun is a Ruger P-97 .45acp.

It is ugly as hell…but it gives a hearty BANG! every time I pull the trigger and it makes holes in the paper right where I’m pointing it.

What more do you need a pistol to do???

I can’t speak to their customer service…I’ve never needed it.

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TBeck
7 years 9 months ago

Sometimes, I feel trashy for shooting my XD next to the guy with the tricked out H&K.

But then I see the size of his pattern…I mean group, and I get over it.

It’s not the hardware, it’s the software.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

“Well Mr. Correia, just how much is your life worth to you? If you valued your life, you’d see that HK was worth the price.”

Wow, it’s almost like the poster of that comment *didn’t even read* your post. Larry, if you just had pictures of some wet-suited Übermensch rising dripping from the blackened sea, I’m certain you wouldn’t have to deal with this tripe. I’m pretty sure you commented on quality, but you Used Big Words here and there. Keep it simple for the fanboys, eh?

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J F
7 years 9 months ago

well , dayum …
i feel so left out with my old fashioned 5 shot 38 special snubby.
i guess i’ll just never be ubercool and with-it by packing a high dollar euro-gun.
i just don’t know what to say…

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

Hey, you guys noticed that NC was kidding, right? See his post two posts above that one.

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Koalorka
7 years 9 months ago

So I’m guessing you think the M1911 is a manifestation of God? You don’t like HK’s? Suck it, go buy a Savage.

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NC
7 years 9 months ago

To be fair, internet postings aren’t often the best medium to convey dry sarcasm.

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fergie
7 years 9 months ago

I’m unclear about something……just why would an Ubermensch need a pistol? Surely he could crush us lowly unpure Americans with his mighty square hands!

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Destiny
7 years 9 months ago

Okay Larry…. I did get a laugh out of this one… not only from your rant but the idiotic responses from the HK Prissy’s. Got to love em though cause you can always sell them crap ten times what its really worth. You do know what Preparation H&K is for right ?????

Des
Evil Blonde

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Spook
7 years 9 months ago

Just to be fair, I’ve shot a few pistols including the USP and 1911…

I love my USP, a decent Glock, 1911, XD and the like are ALL THE SAME FRIGGIN PRICE if you catch them on sale. H*ll a uber-tactical 1911 costs… oh yeah $2,000!!! and people complain about the $1400 Mk. 23. I’m sorry but after having my mouth soured by the utterly unreliable 1911 I shot (Springfield Arm.) it’ll be a LONG time before I put my carry FULL SIZE USP down. Also you people must have some REALLY small hands. I can’t use a M9 9mm because it’s too wide, but yet me AND my girl (who has smaller hands than I can both easily shoot a full size…)

Go figure.

I’m not an HK fan boy, I have nothing vested in the companies continued success other than more parts IF my gun should ever break (and I know one day, it will) however, I find it funny that noone’s actually given a damn reliable pistol props. It’s alot more accurate than the USP-9, 1911, Ruger Blackhawk, Sigma and a few others have been. Let’s try using the PUSH button mag relase on a Glock or 1911 type… oh wait… the USP is easier… Ok… the safety is high up… I carry mine with a round in the chamber on double action and I can reach the trigger just fine. A little strong but no problems there. Oh wait… ALOT of other companies put their safety half way up the slide… Hmmm… as for parts… don’t deal with Hk support another company like Hkpro or E-gun parts…

Just my .02…

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Steven T
7 years 9 months ago

I think the issue with pistol grip size isn’t how big or small your hands are, but how meaty they are. I’ve seen lots of guys with large hands, but they have so much flesh in there that they might as well not have fingers. I have small skinny hands and I handle that USP just fine. I went and fired my USP the other day in like a year(and it sat dirty the whole time) and it was very nice compared to a gun I was testing.

As long as it goes bang when I pull the trigger, I think I might like it.

Guest
SecurityGuy
7 years 9 months ago

Ah heck, I’ll tell everybody how cool a gun company is if they’ll just have the sense to make my ideal combo at a reasonable price; high capacity pistol and carbine that share mags in either 10mm or 45ACP (the 45ACP has to be manufacturer rated to handle 45Super box, though)

Of course, in order for me to forgive said company for sucking too much to have already figured out and made this perfect combo, they’ll have to send me the first three pairs free.

Then that company will truly rock, even if it’s HK. The rest will still suck for being too dumb to figure it out quicker.

Guest
Totheuneducated
7 years 9 months ago

I agree with a few of your points regarding the price of HK weapons when compared to others on the market, but most of the other stuff, simply isn’t true. Do some research, learn the laws and then come back with an intelligent rant that the H and K fanboys will take seriously. If you approached the HK booth with this kind of an additude I could see why they would snub you. I would too. Did you go to their LE booth and ask civilian questions? Maybe the LE booth was intended for their LE customer base, just a thought…

As for why they sell deboned rifles to the US, look at the import restrictions. No retractable / folding stocks, no mag capacities over 10 rounds, etc. It’s all in the US import law. I’m sure they would love to sell boat loads of guns to the US, what company doesn’t like to make money? The HK416 is a badass gun. I had the pleasure of spending two weeks behind the trigger of one during a tactical training class. We burned in excess of 7,000 rounds that week and the gun ran like a charm, never cleaned it once (I did spray oil on the bolt group twice, that I remember). Have you dealt with their customer service within the last few years? Every thing that I’ve seen on the net, is praising them. Haven’t dealt with them personally, though so I can’t say. That doesn’t stop you though. You can take one person’s word about a XM8 being crappy, but can’t stand to hear that another guy likes it. So talk about what you have had experience with, and leave the rest to the guys who know what they’re talking about. (hint: USP slides aren’t stamped).

Good day.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago
Guest
7 years 9 months ago

I laughed so hard my stomach muscles were hurtin’ at your wit. Then I asked my Dearly Beloved WHY he had not seen fit to tell me just how brilliant you are.
You are now a daily read on my blog trotline, even if JPG put you in the shooting group.

Guest
Nolo
7 years 9 months ago

Correia, you rock. I used to be an HK fanboy. Now, all I really like about the HK weapons is the look of the G3. I think it looks neat. But I use completely different internals than the G3 in my designs so they aren’t really G3s. Why am I not an HK fanboy anymore. Because I’ve never shot an HK and, more importantly, no one else I know has. No one! MP5? Nope. G3? Nope. PSG? Nope. HK53? Nope. I can’t evaluate a weapon if I don’t actually know how it shoots. When all I get from a company is their advertising, I lose respect for them.

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Terry D.
7 years 9 months ago

Man, you are wrong! Me and my buddies all bought HK long guns for a good price. They are awesome. We have a 4 man team and we kick butt with them.

Of course they were made in Italy, have two barrels and are around .75 caliber or something. They are sort of a MLPS (multiple launch projectile system), or shot gun to the non-operators.

Sweet guns.

Guest
Seriously
7 years 9 months ago

NC, on October 11th, 2007 at 11:40 pm Said:

Well Mr. Correia, just how much is your life worth to you? If you valued your life, you’d see that HK was worth the price.

*Sob* You’re right! My life is worth soooo much more than I paid for my HK! I am sooooo overcome with guilt that I’m going to write HK a blank check for my USP! Whatever you want, take it! My life is worth it!

HKs are too cheap!

Totally hilarious blog… you had me in stitches.

I love my HKs …but I don’t pay for them.

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Dave E
7 years 9 months ago

Tucson PD dumped the HK USP as it was an unreliable pistol. I watched thier armorer come over to the range I worked at almost every day to test fire repaired pistols. One officer came in off the street to pop a few rounds, and his USP failed to fire every other round. he left for the station, white as a sheet.
We called the USP the Useless Sh*tty Pistol. I have fired the MP5, and the MP10, brought in by an FBI agent. Nice, waaaay to expensive.
I would love a vP70z just to have one, (I actually like the trigger, go figure), but the name doesn’t impress me.

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Wild Goose
7 years 9 months ago

I find it curious, sirs, that there is no reasoned response to the reasoned defense of H&K. *Shrugs*

Having not fired any of these weapons, I cannot say for sure who is in the right, but there are a few things to consider about the HK416: 1) Delta Force was involved with the R&D and field testing and uses it in place of the M4. (2) In a demonstration trial to members of the Malaysian Armed Forces, a 416 was buried in mud, then fired, with no jams – something that’s very important here in Malaysia, which still has sufficient jungle for jungle warfare, and where 2 jungle wars have been fought: the 1948-1960 Emergency against a communist insurgency, and the 1963 Confrontation with Indonesia.

Just a thought.

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Wild Goose
7 years 9 months ago

Also, there are MP5s in 10mm. These were made for the FBI in the early 90s.

Guest
Rick
2 years 6 months ago

The MP5/10 was primarily designed and manufactured for the SAS and SASR. It was then subsequently picked up in use by law enforcement agencies, the FBI being one. It was originally supposed to be used only for SF´s but they had no qualms with special police branches using them. I did note in the original rant by the blogger that he had problems with the magazine positioning with the bolt closed. Must have been an old model as sinse 1990 they all have the bolt group open after last round fired and fast release lever for instant deployment. Thats a positive and not a negative lol.

Guest
tyler
7 years 9 months ago

“Well Mr. Correia, just how much is your life worth to you? If you valued your life, you’d see that HK was worth the price.”

I carry 8 Mk 23s at all times, for just that reason. I’m a serious operator. Seriously.

Guest
Darrell
7 years 9 months ago

I watched a guy buy an HK 91 at the local fun shop a while back, he looked very pleased with himself. He also paid $2,200 for the privilege. Heck, I was pleased as punch too, remembering that I paid $600 for my PTR 91, which looks just like his HK 91 and works just as well, if not better.

Guest
Vaarok
7 years 9 months ago

Good lord, that’s genius. As another firearm enthusiast who’s sick of being hit over the head by mall-ninja fantasies at every turn, and looks at a G3 and sees a Black Widow Sporter with a bayonet lug and double the price, I loved every word.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

Wow. I could buy about a hundred Mosins, 1893s, K31s or SMLEs for the price of one SG1.

Oh, wait. I did.

Could me and 100 of my friends take out someone with a PSG1?

Probably. But we wouldn’t be as cool doing it.

Seriously, though, I shoot a buddy’s US-made G3 clone all the time. It’s a pretty good $500 rifle. Not as good as a $500 FAL clone. But pretty good. I’ll be happy to pay $500 for a G3. After I buy my AR10.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

http://iwoe.org/bbforum/viewtopic.php?p=40163 it seems Europeans agree, too.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

Good rant. Mix or real points and satire.

Also, I note the comments – even the people that disagree are respectful and everyone is spelling and typing. Hmmm – must be something about the “gun culture” that develops character and social skills. No wonder the Left hates us – we don’t need them.

I have tried several H&K, and agree. Big, blocky, top heavy. Same for Glock – I just cannot get myself to sell my 10MM ’cause 3 full mags = 45 rounds of full-house 10mm is just SO cool.

I do own ONE H&K – a VP70Z. I believe it is the first commercial polymer pistol, holds 18 rounds (I think) in each mag, and looks like a ray gun. Striker fired, it’s got about a 20-lb trigger pull (no fooling – firing a full mag is a workout), but the art-deco look and history make it a keeper.

Stay safe, and reload fast.

Guest
Thomas Johnson
7 years 9 months ago

What’s a better modern submachine gun than the MP5?

Guest
Anonymous Coward
5 years 9 months ago

Micro Tavor, any day of the week.
Its also avalable in 5.56 NATO and in 9mm.

Guest
Sir Guido Cabrone, LC M.o.P.
7 years 9 months ago

Just a few thoughts from a guy that sells guns and shoots a bit.

I work in a range that does both semi and full auto rentals. The only troubles we have had from the Uzi’s were cocking handle screws working loose.

Can’t say the same for the MP-5s. They are cool, and fantastically accurate in semi-auto, but have a bad habit of breaking extractor springs on a regular basis. (This is not cool)

Never have had a part broken on the Uzis, other than by ham-handed idiots over torquing the cocking handle screws rather than simply putting a little lock-tite on them.

Rugers. We have had the same rental P89 and P90 on the wall for over fifteen years. No parts replacement yet.

Cannot say the same for the Glocks, 1911s, XDs, the HKs (when we had them, they were nightmares for breaking parts), or even the frigging Smith revolvers. The Smith M&Ps and FN pistols are too recent to have a track record yet. Come to think of it, the Ruger revolvers have been through hell, and they don’t break either. (I think we might have had to replace a roll pin in the front sight of the SP101…)

When we sell a Ruger auto, it stays sold. Can’t say the same for any other brand, with the possible exception of a CZ.

And, after all this rambling, I carry, and trust my life to, an EAA Witness .45. After 13 years and I don’t want to think about how many rounds, the only problems I have ever had with it were two cracked magazine floorplates, both caused by dropping them while loaded.

And, just for reference, West Germany, (which a recent visitor from Germany told me that there never was an East and West Germany, gotta wonder about European educations!), did adopt the FN-FAL for a short period of time. They called it the G1.

Guest
Wild Goose
7 years 9 months ago

On the subject of West and East Germany, the german visitor is technically correct. The West Germans called their nation the Federal Rpublic of Germany, while the East Germans called themselves the German Democratic Republic.

Notice something: if you are a republic and you have to either “People’s” or “Democratic” in your name, you are ubdoubtedly Communist.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

Some significant few years ago, the HK USP first hit the US market, to considerable shottist-magazine excitement. A few months later, I walked into my local range, and there was one sitting in the rental rack.

So I took a look at it. And yeah. My first reaction was that it was BLOODY GIGANTIC. Sure, it was a .45, but the frame and slide were big enough that you could probably wildcat up a .60-caliber round for it and still be able to use the existing slide casting.

Anyway, not to be discouraged, I gave it a try on the range … and hated it. It had the ergonomics of a brick, and a trigger that felt like it was attached by rubber bands. I swear I could feel that damn plastic trigger flex on every shot. It never let off at the same point twice in a row, and that massive slide made it jump around even worse than a Glock – it had at least half again as much perceived recoil as my trusty Para-Ordnance P14, most of it simply from having about half a Buick engine block flying back and forth with each shot.

So yeah. I don’t own a HK, and I have no plans to. With all their expensive lineup of pistols, they honestly don’t have one I’m really much interested in. My Para-Ordnance works just fine, thank you, as do my Browning GP35 and my Smith & Wesson M57. The only HK technology that really interests me is their polygon rifling, and even that’s not their original idea – it dates back at least to the Whitworth rifles[1] of the US Civil War era. I’d like to replace my M14 with something more accurate sometime, but I’m not thinking HK PSG1 so much as Knight Armaments SR25 or Blaser R93 LRS2.

[1] “I am ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn’t hit an elephant at this dist-” — Maj. Gen. John Sedgwick, May 9, 1864, Spotsylvania, Virginia

Guest
Josh from myspace
7 years 9 months ago

No fucking kidding.

I was really entertained by the “rant”, and the comments almost made my lungs explode.

Fucking H&K. Okay, someone needs to rant on Colt now, they had it coming…

Guest
7 years 9 months ago
Guest
7 years 8 months ago

Great read! I previously owned an HK-91 and a USP .45, and what was said in this article, both about the triggers and safety/charging handle/recoil, was quite accurate! This reminded me why I dislike H&K, they’re really milking their rep with their earlier roller-locked arms. Damn straight about H&K marketing dept., too. Just watch any cheesy 80’s action flick and start counting backward from 100 the MP-5’s and G-3’s you see…

Guest
7 years 8 months ago

You are on to something… I bought the USP .45 because it looked cool….

After my first trip to the range I sold it and was back to my 1911.

The height of bore above he web of my hand means my non firing hand thumb slips off the dustcover every time I fire. The trigger has a plastic feel that my 1911s had taught me to hate instantly, and the accuracy was mundane. I know it was probably mechanically half as accurate as my 1911… which is quite a statement, but I shot it four times moor poorly.

When I got rid of it, the one thing I missed was the 13 round magazine. That was the only thing it had on my 1911.

Guest
Spaminator
7 years 8 months ago

I think you forgot that after about a mag and a half of firing w/ the G3 the foregrip gets so hot you need an oven mit to hold it. So you are forced to hold it by the magazine itself…Germans must have oven mits for hands.

Guest
7 years 8 months ago

[…] I guess soon Cali LEOs will have to buy only HK. Because you suck and we hate you. […]

Guest
Mike
7 years 8 months ago

While I do hate HK sales policy. I like their guns. With USP, you just need to learn how to shoot with them. Same as with cars, if you are used to driving 100year old museum piece (1911) it takes same getting used to modern cars (USP).

Guest
Michael
7 years 8 months ago

Friend of mine pointed me to this “H&K basher”. Funny read, even more so for the comments.

Although I kinda fit all the criteria for beeing the enemy (HK fan, chubby & teutonic “ubermensch” … well, at least I got a german passport), I’d like to add my 0.02$

I used the G3 back in the early 90s while in military service. Since I was in the Navy, I didn’t get to shoot too many rounds with it. But I kinda liked it. Even though the rifle was probably older then I was and had been used & abused by literally hundreds of recruits before me, it was pretty reliable (except with the plastic blanks) and I could repeatedly hit targets out to 200 meters. At 300m it wasn’t so good anymore, but that might have been me.

Two things I still remember about the G3 in service.

One is that at some day, our instructors ran us through some excercise during witch we had to take cover in the sand (near a small pond). Afterwards, our rifles were all pretty messed up. There was sand just everywhere on and in the rifles. I cleaned mine right after we got back to camp, others didn’t. One of them broke his cocking handle the next morning trying to open the bolt … and using his entrenchment tool for help.

The other thing is about the recoil. I never felt that this was excessive or too much in any way. Go shoot a Karabiner 98k or any other, relatively light weight 7.92×57 rifle and you know what I mean. But back in the day, there were a lot of stories about US military personnel that hurt/dislocated/broke their shoulders when shooting a G3. Although I never witnessed it and don’t know how true the stories were, that was quite funny for us. Used to laugh a lot about the guys “only used to handle poodle shooters, too weak for a real rifle”.

Again, those stories are probably exaggerated, so don’t take offense. I’d mentioned it mainly to make a point about the differences in percepted recoil. Far as I remember, there were no big complaints in our ranks, not even from the few girls we had.

As for the USP series of handguns, I had the chance to try both a H&K P8 (german military version of the USP9) and the Mk23 at the range. The USP sucked, I couldn’t get used to it. But it wasn’t for the big grip, because the Mk23 was a dream to shoot.

It’s massive, it has some sort of a recoil dampening device (at least I’m pretty sure I read that somewhere), and I was able to hit whatever I pointed this monster at. Not sure I’d like to lump one around for a week, though.

I currently own and shoot a S&W M59. Used to train a lot with a SIG Sauer P226 and (in my humble opinion), the M59 gets pretty close as far as handling is concerned. Bought it used and rather cheap, so not much to do wrong here. For a long gun I use a Yugo SKS with Tapco stock & mags.

I still want to get myself a .45 USP Compact, simpy because it’s cheaper then a Mk23. Over here, prices don’t differ much for SIG Sauer, Beretta or HK. Glock and Ruger are cheaper.

Been at the HK booth a couple times at the IWA (little brother to the SHOT show, held in Nuremburg/Germany) and never experienced the infamous HK sneer. Might have something to do with the way HK sees the german (sport shooting mainly) vs. the american market (emphasis on LE?).

Guest
ATH
7 years 7 months ago

Epic trolling. Simply epic. I am in awe of your troll smarts.

Have my abortion?

Guest
Marcus
7 years 7 months ago

Of course all H&K guns are superior. That is why all of the winning shooters in IPSC and three gun matches use H&K. Price is no object. They don’t just talk about guns, they make a living in a game where every single round is scored and reliability is essential. Don’t look at the gun, look at the target.

If you are one of those guys who like the “ergonomics” of H&K products, I am sure Larry will sell them to you. Hell, he would even over charge you if you life if worth more than a normal guy.

Guest
Tomovich
7 years 7 months ago

A big thumbs up!!

Even though I confess to owning a few H und K’s I laughed my ass off. Well written and UNFORTUNATELY oh so true. It’s gotten to be like the “Ford vs Chevy” thing. Gimme a break……..they all do the same thing!!!! H und K (the company) has a screwed up attitude and that’s that. Period.

Guest
anon cause
7 years 7 months ago

what a lot of folks do not know, back in 1998 when smith & wesson signed that agreement with HUD under the clinton administration, whereby they would accept an “oversight committee” of 5 member, 3 would be gov’t officials (do a google for it – the terms will flip you out), another provision was that Smith & Wesson would also turn over all ownership records to HUD (that’s right, Housing & Urban Development, which at the time was run by Andrew Cuomo, secretary of housing). That meant if you had ever filled out a warranty card on a S&W, or sent one in for repair, your name was givent to HUD

Some of you will recall there was a big uproar but Smith & Wesson was owned by a british company, Tompkins LLC and the brits have a different attitude toward their governemt, it’s more their “mother” than a gov’t

Well, guess who else signed it ? H&K, with a confidentiality clause that if knowledge of their signing it became public, the agreement was null & void

if you recall, H&K at the time, was owned by another british company, BAE
I’ve filed 3 FOIA requests for a copy of that agreement and have never had a response in 5 years

Guest
7 years 6 months ago

[…] You might suck less and we might hate you less. […]

Guest
7 years 6 months ago

As the owner of an FN PS-90 I would know nothing about paying double what a weapon is actually worth merely for the added cool factor. And I’m not looking for a decently priced FiveseveN piece of plastic crap which costs about five times what it’s worth either.

Guest
7 years 6 months ago

As an aside to the rant, nice to read about the CZ pistols, ” Can’t say the same for any other brand, with the possible exception of a CZ.” My hip, Blackhawk holster, and CZ P01 are very comfortable together. Rubber grips, 14 rounds and more confirmation of its quality. Thanks

Guest
Kevin
7 years 6 months ago

Nice article dude. First rate. I got to shoot a few HK weapons, and I was not impressed. You pretty much have to baby the MP5 or else the thing will jam on you. The FAL and M14 are much better than the G3. And since I was a grunt who served on the front lines in Iraq, for two tours, our M4s were very reliable and I’ve never met anyone who has used the weapon extensively who did not like it. There is no need to change to the 416, that is just a bunch of propaganda.

Guest
zeroflux
2 years 10 months ago

I’ve shot the MP5 and absolutely hate the trigger on that thing.

Guest
Metalhead
7 years 5 months ago

To that Urban Legend concerning dislocating a shoulder when firing a G3:
It wasn’t with the G3 but with the MG 3 – and I’ve seen it happening – the guy tried to fired it with one hand only…

Guest
janus
2 years 10 months ago

Well, as someone qualified to operate the MG-3, i feel that shooting a 1300rds/min weapon one handed is simply retarded.

Guest
Srtsam
7 years 5 months ago

HK just got dropped from my local gun pusher. Their customer service sucks ass and he couldn’t sell their guns without severly discountig them. Shame, I was seriosly considering taking the HK plunge with a 45c but will now wait for the Px4-sd due later this summer.

Guest
john
7 years 4 months ago

It’s a German thing you wouldn’t understand. I only have had one HK weapon in my life. That silly squeeze-cocking thing. When I had a cash shortage, I was faced with a choice of sell it, or sell half my gun rack. I sold it for more than I paid for it.

This attitude prevails in anything they think we like. I hadda get a Volkswagen some years back and the sneering attitude toward the customer has been transmitted toward the local staff and they’re all Americans, even the ones with German names….. I feel like an abused co-dependent every time I go in for basic maintenance.

Makes me glad I didn’t buy one of the last amiga’s from escom.

Guest
Matt
7 years 4 months ago

Great article. I almost fell out of my chair laughing. Even though I love USPs I do despise H&K’s pain in the ass marketing strategy. I really don’t understand why they won’t sell to civilians.

I got my USP-Tactical, I’m probably never buying another H&K product b/c of their reluctance to sell them to me.

Guest
7 years 4 months ago

I posted a couple a days back, forgot to mention my carry guns. I have recently consummated a two decade long letch for the S&W 469. I like the Browning Hi-Power, and the detective model. I did once ask the HK Rep(tile) how many of their customers die, of old age, before they have enough saved up for those triple-priced toys… I have Makarov, Tokarev, and the square gripped CZ-52. For serious hunting I have a Savage 30-06, going on it’s forth scope. They break. I also have Hi-point, and Kel-Tec 9mm carbines, love ‘em.

I’m also slightly shocked to discover that I have more than a dozen .22lr rifles! They’re like stray dogs, except for one Ruger 10/22 and an AR-7 I bought new, the rest just sort of showed up at my door. A nylon 66 will always find a happy home here.

I’ll never buy another HK, German car, or German ANYTHING, new ever again.

Because I Suck, and they hate me!

Guest
thebronze
7 years 4 months ago

HK sucks ass.

Guest
7 years 4 months ago

I had to read this again. I still think the following is my favorite part: ” Fritz at the armorer’s school damn near had an aneurism when he saw this blasphemy against his ineffectual German gods. ”

Heh. Hah-hah. Hee. :-D

Guest
7 years 3 months ago

Someone in the comments said they also get the sneer from Glock. While I love Herr Glock’s Cinderella story of a poor but honest plastics wank, who didn’t know a gun from a glockenspiel, rising to supply the entire Austrian Army, plus several dozen clueless Police Departments, with his first effort, Brings a tear to me eye it does. But I find it distressing to see hard headed cops succumb to almost MY level of toy mania.

I might buy a Glock or HK at a distress sale, but I would rather add another .22 to my dozen and a half rifles, or my 8 pistols. I’ll have the .22 on me chances are. Even though I just got my CCP. Massad Ayoob is coming to neighboring Couer d’Alene, and I’m gonna over spend and be there….

Guest
Speed
7 years 3 months ago

The MP5 is the only HK I have an long-term experience with.
I love it; great ergos, sights, feel, mag release, and it shoots as smooth as glass.
Also don’t like a few important things; A3 stock feels like crap, selector lever position is horrible (you better be clicked into the position you want when the shooting starts ), no LRBHO, small magwell, and the gun DOES JAM.

Comparing it to a 9mm Colt smg, the Colt mags love to unload themselves if dropped, and the Colt is no where near as smooth as the MP5. Colt selector is perfection.
The Colt has been a hair more reliable in my experience, but with the Colt magazine issues, it’s hard to say the Colt is actually more reliable in reality.

I favor the MP5 just because it is so much smoother than the colt.

I think the G3 is horrible, the FAL is a much better weapon.
I think the HK super-sized 45 is ridiculous.
I think all HK stuff is overpriced.

Guest
7 years 3 months ago

I am left handed, and I have a USP Compact, which I bought on the salesman’s assurance that I could easily obtain an ambi-safety lever for it. That seemed reasonable to me. I’ve put ambi-safeties on my 1911s, and getting the parts for them was never a problem.

Well, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I’ll never buy an H&K product again. I’ve made so many phone calls to H&K to try and get an ambi-safety that they ought to offer to pay my phone bill for a month. They keep saying to call them back in a couple of weeks. This has been going on for the better part of a year. I’m going to sell this pistol and buy another 1911. Yes, the USP is very reliable, but truthfully, it is not all that accurate. My little 3″ Kimber will shoot rings around my USP. And I don’t care how reliable it is; sooner or later all guns will break. And since H&K doesn’t take parts availability with any degree of seriousness, my $740 USP will then be just an expensive paperweight.

I’m going to sell it before that happens.

Guest
T-Man
7 years 3 months ago

Don’t forget that Lara Croft’s personal choice of pistol is the USP, uber-hollywood-ized with those HUGE compensators, of course. That certainly adds something to HK’s super-coolness.

Great write-up. You are 100% right about people who talk up guns that they have never shot, handled, or seen other than video games and Futureweapons.

Guest
Jason
7 years 3 months ago

I have the new HK45 and like it a great deal. I prefer the location of the mag release compared to other gun makers and it works just fine for me. I shot at least a dozen different guns before buying the HK and feel that it was worth the cost. I agree on the trigger though, it does grind even after I sent it in for the LEO trigger.

I do agree 100% on the HK long gun rants which have been posted. They are overpriced, cheaply made, and underwhelming at best. As for the Mark 23, I would never even consider owning one.

I am very interested in purchasing a piston AR but am unlikely to buy it from HK. There are many manufacturers in this country making them now so I can afford to shop for the best set of features as well as price.

Guest

[…] the last case, so I wandered over to see what the attraction was.  Oh, that.  The shop has an HK G3 for sale, for the princely sum of $14 thousand smackers.  Kid asked me if I liked it.  I told […]

Guest
Steve F.
7 years 2 months ago

I miss the H&K of the 1970’s through the 80s.

That was a company that genuinely liked selling guns, and was innovating the hell out of things.

HK4: four barrels, one slide, one frame. Neat little gun.

P9 Series: beautiful guns, nice ergonomics, smooth shooters.

P7 Series, truely innovative, and thinking outside of the box.

Also, no hesitation whatsoever in offering semi-auto civilian versions of their military guns: HK91, 93, 94, SP89. Heavy, but well made…and the vaunted Belgian FAL at the time cost twice as much as the H&K rifle in the same caliber.

The guns were still expensive, yes, but you got great value for your money, IMO.

Then the 90’s, they got bought by the Brits, things went downhill..but at least they still offered the P7 series, and the USP guns were pretty good. I still like my USP9 I bought back in 94.

Then comes the 2000’s, and they got bought back by the Germans. Great news, right? WRONG.

Hey, you wanna buy a P7? Sorry, discontinued!

Hell, the M13 was discontinued almost right when the AW ban expired…the guns at LE distributors flew out the door, and H&K started threatening shops selling the now-legal LE hicap mags.

Police department wants to buy an MP5/40? Sorry, but we’ll sell you these cheapass plastic UMP’s for a couple hundred less.

Oh, you want parts for your 12 existing 40’s? Sorry, no parts, but we got these UMP’s…

The only reason why the MP5 (one of the greatest subguns ever made) is still made is because the French placed a huge order, and H&K is realizing that nobody wants the cheap plastic junk UMP’s.

Larry’s right, they think we suck and they hate us.

Guest
Leethal
7 years 2 months ago

This entry is completely full of win. I have one extremely reliable HK USP that I love, but it’s also the last HK I’ll ever own.

I have never been impressed with a single HK rifle. To hear folks (and HK) tell it, the HK416 an incredible leap in firearms technology, the likes we haven’t seen since the introduction of brass cartridges. *rolls eyes*

Guest

[…] pokes fun of HK. We were actually going to get Squeaky to walk up to the HK booth and ask them why they hate us while we videotaped the encounter. That would have been instant youtube gold. But I could never get […]

Guest
7 years 2 months ago

Dear Ghod … the comments just keep on going.

To the HK fanboi who thinks the MP-5 is the best modern SMG … at SMG competitions in the US, the PPSH-41 shooters make the MP-5 shooters cry.

They don’t realize how sucktasticly slow their closed-bolt toys are until they clear a table in 5 seconds … and then watch the PPSH and Soumi shooters clear said table in under 1 second.

Guest
fedora1953
7 years 2 months ago

I ran across a link from another site the pointed here and started reading all the rants and raves about HK. I’ve handled a few, but never shot one. The USP is just too darn blocky for my hands. I know a guy that could probably palm one. He has the meatiest hands I’ve ever seen. One thing I do know. If a gun doesn’t sit well in your hand, and lacks pointability, you are handicapped from the very beginning. Not all designs are equal.
I’ve been shooting for 32 years, so I’m not a newbie. I learned to shoot with a Charter Arms Bulldog chambered in .44 Special. It was punishing, but at that time I was ignorant enough to think all guns handled the same. So I accepted that aspect of shooting and continued from there.
My next handgun was a .22 revolver, the manufacturer’s name eludes me right now. I do know they went under, only to reappear under another name. I learned to be very accurate with it. The cheaper ammo went a long way toward that end.
I’ve had auto loaders fail me, as well as revolvers. I’ve had revolvers break unexpectedly. I’ve had ejector rods bend on both a S&W 29, and a Ruger Security-Six. That’ll bind the cylinder where it will not move with just the use of a finger squeezing the trigger. I’ve had the trigger spring on an old Beretta 92 break. And I’ve had more faulty extractors on Kel-Tecs than you can shake a stick at. Whereas others I’ve known had great success. I had one .45 auto that failed in less than 100 rounds. It’s recoil guide broke. The lip the retains the larger spring broke off. Not very comforting. Any handgun can fail. I don’t care how much you pay for it.
The closest I came to actually owning an HK was when I owned a PTR 91. It was a pretty fair rifle. But, I also had a paratrooper model of the Imbel FN that was imported by Springfield. Which was just flat out a better weapon – IMO. Arthritis has caused me to give up rifles, because I cannot tolerate walking the distance downrange to set up targets. It took all the fun out of it.
I have never had a case of magnumitis. I never tried to create scorcher ammo, and I never ran +P ammo through any gun I owned. I have always been primarily concerned with my skill as a shooter, not how fast a round would go downrange. If I couldn’t hit with a gun, and that has happened, I try to correct it, or get another. I shoot several inches low low with stock sights on a Kahr. I do the same problem with Taurus pistols equipped with the straight 8 sights.
I have certain demands from a handgun that are absolute in nature.
1.) It has to feel good in my hand and point naturally.
2.) It has to be reliable. (I will not trust a auto until I’ve fed it between 250 to 300 rounds. The first rounds that go through any auto I’m shooting for the first time, is two magazines loaded with defense loads.)
3.) It must be reasonably accurate.
4.) If I intend to carry it, it must be concealable. I have a CCP. and I do carry constantly. I carry a Kahr PM9 with Noval low profile dot sights in my front pocket every single day from the time I get dressed to the time I get ready for bed.
Yes, I switch magazines out every month. I also clean, inspect and lube it on the day I switch magazines. Kahrs are pretty pricey too. I paid about $700 for mine, and it has been flawless and accurate.
When I go out, I often lock up my PM9 and grab my stainless Kahr MK40 with MMC Adjustable sights. I bought it used at a gun show for less than $400. It had been dumped because the slide lock was bent, which caused the slide to lock open during shooting – even with ammo still in the mag. Kahr makes a terrific gun, even though I consider them too expensive. I bought my PM9 specifically to carry. It is a keeper.
Now, back to HK. I price the gun, too expensive. I price the mags, too expensive. I cannot believe an HK handgun in any caliber can out shoot my S&W M&P 45. All 11 rounds make a nice cloverleaf pattern at combat distances. This pistol has been 100% reliable. S&W has a lifetime warranty, and I see HK does too. BUT, from the postings I’ve read, HK doesn’t seem to be too customer friendly. However, S&W IS customer friendly. They even sent me a spare magazine for the P99 I had to send in for repair.
S&W is now American owned and operated. The British plumbing firm that owned it during the Clintonesta regime sold it. The new company management told HUD to stick it. They are now very 2nd amendment friendly in all respects. The British owned S&W reflected the European thought toward guns in civilian hands – a no no..

Heck, I like Sigs, a lot too, but I cannot afford their prices. I can buy two Ruger 345s for the price of one of those.

So, the question I have is this… If HK makes the “world’s best firearm” then how come they feel like a 2×4 in your hand?

Proper ergonomics make a handgun feel natural in the hand, almost as if it was an extension of your hand. My much less expensive S&W Sigma in 40 S&W practically points itself and costs considerably less than any HK I’ve seen… and I got two free 14 round magazines from S&W along with a $50 check. It also hits whatever I aim at.

Guest
HK ROCKS
7 years 2 months ago

HK did the Piston Upper FIRST!!!!!!
The U.S gun lobby did not want the Superior German Rifles from the Fatherland to make their pop-guns look like junk.
They got the government to pass import laws preventing HK sending the Rifles to U.S soil.
HK had to build them in the U.S or no go! HK said F.U slimey American Civilians.
You then had companies like P.O.F and Bushmaster STEAL the HK Piston upper and produce it in the U.S

HK Forever. You will NEVER understand. When your piece of U.S trash AR jams and your buddies DIE!…You should have deployed with a HK!

Guest
5 years 11 months ago

HK is the last in a long line of piston uppers. Eugene Stoner first did it back in the late 60s and tried to interest the Army in it to no avail. The Stoner design was actually used on the G36 and now the 416 which HK has made proprietary. So who stole what? You really need to educate yourself a bit before going on a rant.

Guest
1 year 2 months ago

LWRC makes the best piston operating system on the market, and their CS and availability of repair/replacement parts (should you ever need them!) puts H&K to shame. They also stand by their products 100% replacing or servicing stuff inside of a month.

Guest
Alexander
7 years 1 month ago

I truly enjoyed the rant against HK, and found the majority of comments above to be instructive (especially Fedora1953).

I own a CETME and like it a lot, but I do resent the fact that it destroys the brass, especially with ammo prices climbing and myself just starting to think about reloading.

It is my go-to gun for SHTF.
It’s completely reliable after a bit of mag tweaking, and the accuracy is more limited by the quality of ammo than the gun itself.

I had Bill Springfield do a trigger job for me and it was worth every penny.

The thing that made me like this article (rant) was the pain I felt when I couldn’t get a semi-auto G36. At the time I believed that it was the modern improved version of my CETME. The horror of the SL8 sank gradually into my consciousness like the death of a loved one. At that point I realized that H&K was a part of the Socialist gun control machine, and of course I have hated them ever since.

Nothing since then has dissuaded me from this view.
The reviewers in the gun rags try desperately to paint their patron’s products in the best light, but the details slip through.

Magazine disconnect.
Integral trigger lock.
Loaded chamber indicator.

The list goes on but I feel the rising revulsion in my stomach.

HK thinks we suck, and they hate us.

Guest

[…] EDIT: Wait wait wait, got it. “HK. Because you suck on candy and we hate you” […]

Guest
Jim
7 years 1 month ago

Hilarious! And true. I have a USP-9F and a USP-9C. I got them at prices HK would not approve of. The Compact malfed a few weeks back so now begins the wait for the parts. My gunsmith – a nationally-know guy – hates them as their response time is terrible.

Guest
Dave C.
7 years 1 month ago

The biggest draw of the G3 is the illegal, covert possibilities. With all the full auto parts previously available (Not any more) making the gun full auto without changing the receiver is not very hard.

All you need to do is alter the trigger pack which is about the size of a pack of cigarettes. Of course it’s a little more complicated than that to get it to work right but the potential is there.

Of course no one talks about that publicly but that adds a lot of covert appeal to the gun. It applies to all the G3/33/MP5 family.

I knew a Class 2 manufacturer and I saw him do it in less than an hour. Registering it with the paperwork (Form 2) and engraving the serial number and maker name takes longer.

Guest

[…] stuff. Sincerely HK Marketing Department HK. Because you suck. And we hate you. HK. Because you suck. And we hate you. Monster Hunter Nation __________________ Stuff […]

Guest

[…] Originally Posted by jeepinbanditrider Eh you’re better off not giving them your moolah anyway. Get an American companies upper and save some money at the same time. Parody letter I found over on the zombiesquad forums HK. Because you suck. And we hate you. Monster Hunter Nation […]

Guest
Choybalsan
7 years 6 days ago

A lot of hype over H&K guns. But back in 1994 we didnt have the games we have now so its worse. I’ve heard storys from contras about how disliked the hk mp5 was. In fact they prefer the mac-10 or mac-11 over the uzi, only because the uzi is almost a rifle. If you said that years ago you’d be universally shunned because mac’s are “innacuate pieces of junk”. Heavy and clunky, yes. But not worse. You cant insert a fully loaded magazine in a mp5 with the bolt closed. Something the armchairs wouldnt know because they’ve never used one. They are all impossible to make parts for. Which is good because if your a middle eastern dictator, you want all your cops to hold mp5’s with unloaded magazines (to keep dirt ouf of the action) to intimidate your unarmed populace. And if anyone raids that arms depot, the guns wont last long “in the field”. HK guns are indeed overpriced sheet metal. The rifles are unbalanced. They do beat you up. You cant use any type of ammo in them. What good is that going to do when you only have blacktips, bluetips or berdain primed, corrosive ammo in the field? Ever shoot the .40 P7? Excessive recoil and the double stack versions of both arent worth the extra capacity. Shoot all versions and report the results. Also the P7 has no external slide release. On the last shot the slide locks back. You are to release the grip, eject the empty, insert a magazine then squeeze the gun to release the slide. With a 3 pound single action trigger thats going to made AD’s a bit of an issue for most. Reliable with the 2 or 3 types of ammo by lot number and if the gun is clean and maintained in a climate and humid controlled enviornment. Remember when they started giving Reisings to cops as squad rifles? Read between the lines on that one. Same kind of thing with HK. Dont mistake the most popular idea or theory as being the ONLY explaination. Parsimony doesnt apply here. There is more but I dont feel like typing anymore.

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Choybalsan
7 years 6 days ago

Ironically I saw a thing on tv today talking about vintage porche’s. Crap car. Sounds like a jet airplane. Test drive a porche before you wax poetic. Handles like hell under 80mph because of the wheelbase. Thats why you always see guys driving fast with porches. You had to buy the car stock with no spedometer, ect. And the addons would cost as much as a lower end sports car in the day. And you couldnt get parts for it. Porche’s attitude was “our cars dont break”. Same attitude here. French, german, italian. I’ll pass. I’d rather buy chinese or american.

Guest
6 years 11 months ago

[…] But you can’t have one. Because you suck and we hate you. […]

Guest

[…] HK.  Because you suck.  And we hate you. […]

Guest

[…] HK G11 that fired caseless ammo. Not that it mattered. They wouldn’t sell you one. Because you suck and we hate you. […]

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MatthewC
6 years 8 months ago

Dude, you rock!

I’ve loathed ugly plastic H&K crap ever since I foolishly spent a fortune on one of their pistols and realized that:

1.It wasn’t made for my human sized hands–I made a fool out of myself and scared the range master whenever I shot it.

2.It really does have a worse trigger than a Makarov (and I have a Mak–much more fun to shoot. And you can get used to the trigger, since it is the only real flaw)

3.Worst of all I realized I could have bought:

–Two old P-38’s
–A collectible Luger
–A super accurate Kimber .45

And many other things . . .

. . .anyhow I sold it and haven’t regretted it.

I thought I w

Guest
6 years 8 months ago

I hope “HK Rocks!” is being sarcastic…seeing as Rhino sold its piston conversion in 1982…

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Chris
6 years 8 months ago

Korea – Because YOU suck! And WE hate YOU!!!

Mormon POS!

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Chris
6 years 8 months ago

I should never post online while drinking…

:0

Guest
I'm off topic so please forgive.
6 years 7 months ago

From a reliabilty perspective what do u guys think of Sigs P226/P229 in 9mm?

Why Sig? I really like the way the 226 feels in my hand and like the location of the decocking lever.

I’ve chosen 9mm primarly due to cost and I figure both models will feed HPs with little trouble when it comes to home defense.

Guest
repost
6 years 7 months ago

This was great reading and generally confirmed my unsubstainated opinion of H&K. So please forgive when I go off topic. I’m thinking about the Sig 226 or 229 chambered for the 9mm. I prefer the feeling of an all steel gun in lieu of composites, and really enjoyed the 226 (I like the location of the de-cocking lever). The weapon will be primarily used for home defense as a back up (My short barrel Remington 870 is my primary) and as my first pistol.

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NC
6 years 7 months ago

To the above: I’d suggest bringing your question to the webforum, We The Armed (http://wethearmed.com).

The Sig 229 and 229 have alloy frames, not steel, but they’re good guns. I’ve got quite a few rounds through a Sig 226R and like it quite a bit. I’d like it more if it wasn’t so biased against lefties, but that may not be an issue for you.

You won’t go wrong with the Sig.

And, for the record, in case anyone else reads over these (now classic) comments…yes, I was being sarcastic when I told Larry that if he valued his life, he’d carry an H&K.

Guest

[…] it’s worth noting that unlike some companies (I’m looking at you, HK), FN USA is friendly to the civilian market.  The produce civilian versions of their assault […]

Guest
6 years 6 months ago

I’m one of, like, 10,000 guys who own a USP Compact in .40 S&W. Everything Larry said is absolutely spot on – including my STUPID decision of having bought one based on someone else’s recommendation, without having fired one first. After having owned, shot, and loved, a number of 1911 pattern pistols, the H&K was a severe disappointment – but it IS reliable, and that must count for something.

That being said, I’ll probably sell it and get something a little more satisfying with the money, just so I can stop kicking my own ass for having been an idiot.

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[…] And we don’t hate you quite as much. […]

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Captain Holly
6 years 6 months ago

Loved the rant.

I’m also enjoyed reading the love for Ruger pistols here. I’m a Ruger fanboy because their handguns are reasonably priced, well-built, and reliable. Trigger pull might suck but otherwise a decent weapon.

I think if Bill Ruger had kept his mouth shut 90% of the Ruger hate would disappear.

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Tim W.
6 years 6 months ago

Hey…awesome letter. I just got torked off by HK and so I posted my complaint on the Nebraska Concealed Carry Forum. Someone then replied with a link to your site.

I am now a former HK customer! Keep up the good work.

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Nellis
6 years 5 months ago

correia45
when you said
“The 416 is basically an AR with a gas piston, WHICH HAS BEEN DONE BY LIKE TEN OTHER COMPANIES, but somehow the HK is better, because it was on Future Weapons, and HK won’t sell it to civilians. ”

what other guns are you talking about have a gas piston??
plz tell me so that i can ckeck them out
(or even better, counld you give me some gun name that have the same firing system as the h & k 416?)

also, tx you for the info on h & k guns, i had NO idea that they were like this (except for being a bunch of baby when it come to exports)

thank

Guest
5 years 10 months ago

Rhino is defunct, but they made one. Barrett does, IIRC. Bushmaster (the American equivalent of H&K;-)).

The big question is why?

Guest

[…] Originally Posted by svtfocus2cobra Aren’t HK mags pretty much the best there are? My friends are always talking about finding good deals on HK AR steel mags cause they’re way better than the Magpul Pmags. No. HK mags range from The only choice deal with it (USP mags), to middle of the road (G3 and varient mags) to heavy hunks of shit (HK AR mags). They are universally overpriced, and useally heavier then the alternatives. I can’t speak for MP5 mags, as the only MP5’s I’ve fired were the army’s and I didn’t look at who made the mags (they worked though). HK is a decent gun company with a world class marketing team. I say this as someone that owns a USP, has owned 2 G3’s, and has shot Mark 23’s, MP5’s and a PSG1. I like their weapons, but Jesus, do they benifit from the Rainbow Six games. And I’m amazed anyone likes their AR mags, especially over P-mags. HK mags are heavy, have followes that tilt easily, and feedlips that bend easily. On the up side if you run out of ammo, you can beat someone to death with it. Here: Read This […]

Guest

[…] bend easily. On the up side if you run out of ammo, you can beat someone to death with it. Here: Read This Last edited by dogmush; Today at 12:16 […]

Guest
6 years 5 months ago

Great Comedy!!! Scorned? I think so. You must be too broke to own many of the weapons you talk about. I have owned, PSG1’s, HK-91, HK- SR9’s. Most accurate auto on the planet. You can say what you want about the HK, I will always like them. What you seem to have forgot was, the HK-91 was $400 when they came out, at the same time the AK-47 Galiil was triple. The PSG-1 was only 2k when they came out, now, because of the terrible laws passed in this country, made them sky rocket. I didnt hear any mention of that by you. Your wining over price? My life is worth more than price. What gun that was a .308 that shot as long and hit as hard was out then? The Garand? If you felt you needed an Elephant sitting on your shoulder, I guess that would be a second choice and that time, the price was the same or more. My SR9 with a polygon barrel was only $900 when I bought it. Today, 8k! WHY? The laws changed and HK made a decision that was good for their company, and you have a problem with that? How stupid are you? They took an un heard of idea and turned it into reality, unlike your ideas of a “perfect weapon”. What you dont seem to get is the fact that their engineers built a good, solid, reliable weapon and you want to knock it because you cant afford it. HK may not make the best weapon today, but they run in the top 3, EASILY. Some on that list are made right here in the U.S. You can claim they make a “bad” weapon. You can claim they hate civilians, but they had their backs turned on them by the government and you blame, “they hate us”. Wouldnt you if they banned your guns from existance after paying engineers hundreds of thousands of dollars to design a gun to sell to us and some jack-ass President Bush Sr. puts a ban into affect to stop the sell of them? You seem to leave out VERY relevant elements to your claim. It only shows how ignorant you really are and how you really havent seen through the history of their designs. Your claim to their marketing efforts is rediculous. So I guess when gran tourismo came out they shouldnt use a Ferrari either? Or a Porsche? Typical mentallity with children, leaving the elements up to a “game”, how old are you? Or should I say, what grade level did you finish? I suggest you do some serious soul searching and realize HK makes a good gun. It may be sub-par to you and that is your opinion. In this great country you have your right to your opinion. A lot of hatred that came from you posting is absolutely hilarious statements. I obviously wouldnt make a HK USC into a full-auto, duh. And the only gun that cant be bought as a civilian is the new XM8, EVERY OTHER GUN HAS A CIVILIAN VERSION How stupid are you to claim that? Pretty stupid….. In your mind a gun should be so perfect that it is made by perfect people and perfect tooling, there is no such thing. Your pipe dream of a weapon just went up in smoke. I love HK, I love Colt, I love Remington and I own them all. I am not biased to the HK brand, but facts are facts. Your comments are stupid, childish and outright blasphemy… Keep playing Rainbow Six……

Guest
6 years 5 months ago

Owner of: HK USP .45, Colt 70 Series .45 ACP, HK-SR9, HK-91, Tikka T3 Tactical, HK-SL8, Sig 226 9mm, Colt Mustang .380, Colt 2nd Gen .45 single action with Ivory, Weatherby Vanguard 25-06, Benelli M1, Remington 1100, Walther P22, Walther G22, GSG-5.

All guns have their place for different people, you dont seem to realize what the guy said before me, he is spot on accurate. Get a clue and do more research and not just the weapon, but the laws too. They have caused a lot of your claim and some of your claims are outright wrong. HK, Colt, Barrett, Remington so far, has gotten it right. But unfortunately, the laws have ruined the HK sales and caused heavy price increases. Their hand guns are good and much better than ANY GLOCK piece of crap. My 1911’s are just as reliable and are near the same price as my USP’s. So what claim are you making exactly about the HK? Over priced? Go back to 1989 and the previous post shows that the laws changed. Secondly, your claim is that the PSG-1 was heavy. Weigh a Barratt .338lapua and it weighs in over 10lbs over! Or a Garand for that matter. Get a clue. I completely agree with the man above me, he has got it right on. The laws changed, the prices spiked. That simple.

T. REED

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T. Reed
6 years 5 months ago

HK makes a good gun….

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T. Reed
6 years 5 months ago

Great Comedy!!! Scorned? I think so. You must be too broke to own many of the weapons you talk about. I have owned, PSG1’s, HK-91, HK- SR9’s. Most accurate auto on the planet. You can say what you want about the HK, I will always like them. What you seem to have forgot was, the HK-91 was $400 when they came out, at the same time the AK-47 Galiil was triple. The PSG-1 was only 2k when they came out, now, because of the terrible laws passed in this country, made them sky rocket. I didnt hear any mention of that by you. Your wining over price? My life is worth more than price. What gun that was a .308 that shot as long and hit as hard was out then? The Garand? If you felt you needed an Elephant sitting on your shoulder, I guess that would be a second choice and that time, the price was the same or more. My SR9 with a polygon barrel was only $900 when I bought it. Today, 8k! WHY? The laws changed and HK made a decision that was good for their company, and you have a problem with that? How stupid are you? They took an un heard of idea and turned it into reality, unlike your ideas of a “perfect weapon”. What you dont seem to get is the fact that their engineers built a good, solid, reliable weapon and you want to knock it because you cant afford it. HK may not make the best weapon today, but they run in the top 3, EASILY. Some on that list are made right here in the U.S. You can claim they make a “bad” weapon. You can claim they hate civilians, but they had their backs turned on them by the government and you blame, “they hate us”. Wouldnt you if they banned your guns from existance after paying engineers hundreds of thousands of dollars to design a gun to sell to us and some jack-ass President Bush Sr. puts a ban into affect to stop the sell of them? You seem to leave out VERY relevant elements to your claim. It only shows how ignorant you really are and how you really havent seen through the history of their designs. Your claim to their marketing efforts is rediculous. So I guess when gran tourismo came out they shouldnt use a Ferrari either? Or a Porsche? Typical mentallity with children, leaving the elements up to a “game”, how old are you? Or should I say, what grade level did you finish? I suggest you do some serious soul searching and realize HK makes a good gun. It may be sub-par to you and that is your opinion. In this great country you have your right to your opinion. A lot of hatred that came from you posting is absolutely hilarious statements. I obviously wouldnt make a HK USC into a full-auto, duh. And the only gun that cant be bought as a civilian is the new XM8, EVERY OTHER GUN HAS A CIVILIAN VERSION How stupid are you to claim that? Pretty stupid….. In your mind a gun should be so perfect that it is made by perfect people and perfect tooling, there is no such thing. Your pipe dream of a weapon just went up in smoke. I love HK, I love Colt, I love Remington and I own them all. I am not biased to the HK brand, but facts are facts. Your comments are stupid, childish and outright blasphemy… Keep playing Rainbow Six……

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ishida
6 years 1 month ago

Sounds like YOU’RE the one who only plays Rainbow Six. And badly, too.

Corriera runs a GUNSHOP, with an extremely wide array of full-auto firearms, INCLUDING your teutonic bolt thrower. And he’s fired tha, amd found others BETTER.

I find the PPSh41 HUNDREDS of times better than anything HK can offer.

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Jon
3 years 11 months ago

The whole point is that if your going to spend rediculous amounts of money you may as well get the best. If HK’s guns were so great the military would use all of their guns, they dont, just the Mp5. The PSG1 is hardly the best repeater, something tells me even the fricken Scar H could out perform that pile. If you want the best repeater in the world, Knight’s Armament. end of story. I guess my ultimate point is, HK is living in the past the only arguements they have are old outdated guns, which for some reason rival better newer guns in cost. Except for the Mp5…….which is so expensive its not even funny.

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Cat
6 years 5 months ago

Funny post :)

I own only one pistol and yepper, it is a USP40.

I like it, I have tiny hands and long fingers. So I don’t have a problem holdiong it or shooting it. It’s the only .40 I’ve ever enjoyed shooting-the recoil reducer really does the trick. I don’t think it’s overlarge-and I have a full size one. I’m a woman and carry concealed-mostly in a Coronado purse-so it works fine and it also works fine in a shoulder holster under a loose shirt or jacket (and I’m small!).

I like it because it’s a .40 with more than 12 rounds capacity that I can carry cocked and locked if I want to-or have a safety with the hammer down if I want to-or have a decocker and no safety if I want to. I haven’t seen another one (even an HK) that lets you do all of that; I like the CZ but you better be careful lowering that hammer on a loaded chamber…or “boom.” I feel better with the decocker.

It IS too darn expensive and you’ll pay through the nose for 13 round magazines-if you can FIND them, And the “hostile environment finish” isn’t. It comes off if you look at it funny. But it IS light to carry and it feels nice in my hands. And mine came with factory Meprolights, which was an added bonus (I know, lots of pistola have those). Plus it is a tack driver, I shoot better with it than I did with Sigs or Berettas…and the Glock 22/23 sucks, it has a muzzle blast fit for a .44 Magnum and a handgrip only a gorilla could love.

It is what it is and I’m glad I have mine before they all get banned and you can’t buy them anymore.

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JJ
6 years 5 months ago

I am friends with a guy who used to work for HK. He now works for a different gun company. He enlightened me to the inherent problems with HK the company:

It’s 3 different and competing companies under one name. HK Law Enforcement, HK Military, and HK Europe. The three different HK’s compete, don’t like each other, and don’t cooperate well.

HK doesn’t sell it’s most popular weapons to civilians because… it’s not what you think,,, they have TERRIBLE customer service, and they know it. The Germans have a different attitude towards customer service than the American companies, and they insist everything be run the German way. HK Law Enforcement wanted to branch out into the civilian market with some currently restricted weapons, but their Customer service with the weapons currently available to civilians is so bad that they figure it would destroy the company if everybody who wanted an MP5 could suddenly go out and buy one. The Americans WANT to supply adequate customer service, the Germans won’t let them. The only thing saving them at this point is their weapons are pretty reliable, and terribly expensive, so there aren’t a lot of customer service issues. I know several people who have paid over $1,200 for Kimber pistols, every one of them has had problems, but they don’t talk about it much, because who wants to admit that you paid that much for a piece of junk? HP pistols probably get some of the same effect, and are more reliable out of the box.

My friend, even though he left HK, still thinks they are great weapons, and so do I. I have never had a malfunction with an MP5 or a UMP, and I have never even seen one with one of the weapons my team has access to. I have never seen any MP5 malfunction ever. I am on a Police SRT and have fired tens of thousands of rounds through these weapons. I’m not saying they can’t malfunction, I’m just saying that they don’t do it as often as some other popular weapons. I am not a fan of the P2000 pistol, I have seen several problems with them, but the USP and HK45 are extremely reliable and accurate. If I wasn’t allowed to carry a 1911 at my department, I would carry a USP.

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Steve
6 years 4 months ago

I have put over 25,000 rounds through my LEM USP Compact .40 and never had a malfunction. H&K did do a warranty p2000 firing pin upgrade a few years ago, but mine worked fine. II purchased an identical off duty carry USP discounted for $495 new which was a fair price. Recently, I have been dealing with their “civilian customer service department” for some SIG .357 barrels. It took about 6 months to receive them due to availability, but that was the only service issue I had with them! This is a reliable weapon if you treat like it might save your life someday!

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snowman77
6 years 4 months ago

My usp compact in .40 works… EXTREMELY reliable. LEM trigger

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[…] is the H und K of the cable networking world. If you have cable internet, you’ve probably never heard of […]

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Do your research
6 years 3 months ago

The only thing that bothers me with this is rant is this. It postulates that if you use any H&K product, you are a fanboy and only falling for their marketing.

My question is this. Regardless of the manufacturor. If the SpecOps community can have ANYTHING they want and can purchase it, why do they consistantly buy H&K? For example, Delta, they replaced all of their M4s with the 416. Surely youn’t saying that they are swallowed up by the hype. They are are real deal. They use it for real in ways that most of us never will. Granted they have world class armorers that can keep anything in top condition. But they still chose H&K products.

I’m just sayin’.

Having said that, they are all way overpriced and their is a huge degree of marketing hype that plays into this. But not everyone that buys has falled for it.

Guest
5 years 10 months ago

Consider that ATF has a large number of O2 aircraft with FLIR. Allegedly, this is for “intercepting illegal arms shipments.” Now, a shipment of guns is pretty much like any other shipment of metal, and they’re available just about anywhere, and a good US machine shop (or garage) can make them cheaper than they can be imported by the truckload. So why does ATF have O2s and FLIR?

Because DEA does, and ATF can’t admit it’s less cool and high tech than the drug chasers.

They have HundKs, too. Because they need them. Because all the cool agencies have them.

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Do your research
6 years 3 months ago

Sorry, that should have been ‘fallen for it.’

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TS
6 years 3 months ago

“Do your research” – those mythical “SpecOps” teams have their gear purchased by bean-counting REMFs. The “operators” don’t have time to do procurements when they’re kicking in doors or practicing it. The bean counters buy things because they’re cool.

As a quick example, the “SpecOps” equivalent in my agency bought an MRAP. There’s ZERO use for it. They’re astonishing imbeciles – like most “SpecOps” groups.

The “SpecOps” community, outside of the military, is often guys who want to play military and be all “high speed low drag” without having to be in the military. They get their own little department and start buying toys. And they, being goofballs, will buy anything marketed properly. The military “SpecOps” units I’ve worked with have often proven themselves victims of their own hype (with alternating funny & painful or tragic results).

Delta Force’s bean counters and handlers said “let’s get you some HK toys”. Actual troops are rarely part of the procurement process.

Look at the garbage for land warrior. Look at guys who are high speed & low drag – they dump the useless gear they’re given. Ask anybody in a combat arms MOS about junk they were given they didn’t need/didn’t want/couldn’t use/wasn’t as good as what it replaced. Everybody’s seen it.

If the HK were so grand, everyone would be going to it. It’s not.

My gummint P2000 went through 5000 rounds until it started malfing. That’s probably about even with a Glock, less than a pre-Cohen Sig or Kimber, and even with a Beretta. Nothing fancy, just expensive.

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furies
5 years 1 month ago

“They’re astonishing imbeciles – like most “SpecOps” groups. The “SpecOps” community, outside of the military, is often guys who want to play military and be all “high speed low drag” without having to be in the military. They get their own little department and start buying toys. And they, being goofballs, will buy anything marketed properly. The military “SpecOps” units I’ve worked with have often proven themselves victims of their own hype (with alternating funny & painful or tragic results).
Delta Force’s bean counters and handlers said “let’s get you some HK toys”. Actual troops are rarely part of the procurement process.”

I’m still laughing at the above quote – I gotta believe you are one tough dude – and smart! If you are calling these men stupid, who are the worlds best trained soldiers and chosen for their ability to independently analyze and engage with maximum advantage, and who have the highest test scores in the military….then that makes you REAL smart!

However, the procurement man in Delta Force did not say “lets buy some toys” . In fact Delta Force co-developed the 416 over three years of grueling field tests. They specifically designed and requested it’s unique features. Then tested it beyond belief, as did the DOD, recently proving the truth of the design and the weapon (though the scar had a couple less stoppages, they still both owned the standard M4s) so again, the results are in and so’s the proof…you are an idiot.

Guest
5 years 1 month ago

Furies: And that was the first time in history they actually did so.

And what do they have? A piston-driven AR. Why, that’s NEVER been done before.

Oh, wait, yes it has.

It’s entirely possible Larry and I, and others here, have worked more with Spec Ops types than you have. But go ahead, summarize your experience in the field, and we’ll give you a fair listen.

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sato
6 years 2 months ago

guns should only be used by security forces,police,army etc
nothing manly about using guns
but hey,guess im talking to a wall here
americans..

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Asap
6 years 2 months ago

Fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion.
But if you are going to come in here and say something that is obviously at odds with the general opinion of everyone else, you have three options:
1. Present your case, show us why you believe what you do and in general give us the arguments you feel pest support your conclusions. In that case, we may still disagree, but we have constructively exchanged views.
2. Shoot off some unfounded, unsubstantiated thoughts that just popped into your mind. Add things along the line of “u r like 2 stupid”. In other words, try to look like an idiot who can’t string together a sentence without help from an adult.
3. Remember that good examples of countries where the mlitary and police are the *only* ones with guns are Burma, North Korea and Libya. Consider the state of those countries and whether you would like to move there.

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Dave Sohm
6 years 25 days ago

Guns should only be used by security forces, police, army, etc. . .

Yeah that worked great for Hitler’s Germany, Soviet Union, China, North Korea, and the area around by the horn of africa where all those ships get hijacked.

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Pedro
6 years 2 months ago

This guy sounds like a scorned angry old woman. Did HK give you an STD, got your sister pregnant and leave you four kids? That fact that a supposedly grown man can have so much hate for a company is laughable at best. The fact that you supposedly sell guns for a living makes it even worse. This dumb rant just makes you and the idiots that agree with you looks like ignorant clowns. And not only that it proves that you are the real fanboys hating a company for no apparent reason just because you don’t like their prices.

HK makes great weapons that have never failed me and have outperformed all the other brands I’ve tried. Sure they are a little on the expensive side but you do get more quality for that extra money. And just because I prefer HK products, I’m mature enough to not hate the other brands just because I like this one. I like guns not companies and I’ll buy whatever gun I like, who makes has absolutely no bearing on my desicion.

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Kristopher
6 years 1 month ago

H&Ks will give you STDs.

Do yourself a favor and sell your’s while you still can.

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Do your research
6 years 1 month ago

I am sorry, you are incorrect. Military specops, especially at the DEVGRU and Delta level have near complete control over what they use. Obviously at the lower levels, Rangers, etc. this is much less the case. At no point did I discuss the non military “specops” units. I would 100% agree on that as they are too busy copying others to be of use in a discussion. But those who work out in the tall grass, they use what they want. And very often, they use H&K. Nearly every Specop unit in the world uses the MP5 and has for the last 30 years. Iranian Embassy. The SAS just got suckered in by H&K’s marketing, rght? The weapons were no good, but they used them anyway because they were name brand. Wow. while there is some truth in the original rant, a good deal of it smacks of someone with an agenda that isn’t able to acknowledge anything good about something they don’t like.

Guest
5 years 10 months ago

So, let me guess… You were in SquEAL Team 37 1/2, right?

Shut the frick up, Counterstrike Poser Boy.