Mormons Can’t Be Warriors?

This one of Larry’s definitely needed preserving away from the Book of Faces- Jack

I see some dumb shit takes on Twitter but there was one this morning that made me snort laugh. One of those pseudo intellectual, wannabe philosophers (dork named himself “commodore”) was barfing up some hot takes about “warriors”, and said that the Amish and the Mormons can’t be leaders, only obedient peasants because we’re so peaceful that we don’t have warriors…





Okay, I can’t speak for the Amish, but this dude has clearly never met a Mormon. We can be accused of a great many things, but pacifistic ain’t among them!

Commodore Dorkface is getting rightfully ratioed to pieces, but just  in case you guys don’t know, there is a deep and abiding desire to shoot stuff and blow shit up among my people. 😀

I looked.  The church actually has a FAQ for how to squeeze in your missionary service if you’re active duty or reserves.  

In my ward right now I’ve got a couple of rangers, former arty, infantry, engineer, a U2 pilot, and a guy who worked for an OGA, and one of my young men is currently in Basic. That’s pretty normal. I’ve met Mormon Marines, SEALs, Green Berets, EOD, pilots, tankers, artillery, drone operators, crypto-commo, combat search and rescue, submariners, and a whole bunch of other stuff I’m forgetting.

I was merely a cake eating civilian contractor who made DoD spreadsheets not suck (and they ALL sucked) but if you want to get super warlike, my father in law’s (who served as a Mormon bishop) contractor career was in NUCLEAR MISSILES. When it comes to warlike, that’s pretty much top tier! Those of you who have worked in contracting, you know that it’s actually the Mormon Industrial Complex, there’s so damned many of us.

Because of the 19th SFG out of Camp Williams there’s a running joke that the Mormons are the only American religion with their own Special Forces Group… Having worked with those guys, that’s actually fair. I know when they first invaded Afghanistan, my friend the (Catholic) battalion commander called the church to see if Mormons would send like an apostle or something to give them some kind of blessing because so many of his dudes were Mormon that he figured it would be a great motivator.

Apparently we’ve got at least 10 Mormons with the MoH.

BYU has the largest ROTC program in the country. (and most of us think BYU is too liberal!) * EDIT: apparently this is for regular schools, and there’s some kind of tier system. I don’t know how it works!

Heck, in our current top senior leadership, our man in charge was an Air Force flight surgeon, and we’ve got another who was a German fighter pilot (and I believe he was crazy enough to fly the “erd nagel”). Way back when I joined the church one of the guys in charge had flown a B-29* over Germany and another had been a Marine on Iwo Jima. The next prophet after that had served on a destroyer in the Pacific.  EDIT 2: apparently that’s B-24 not B-29 but I don’t know my classic warplanes either!

Mormons being pacifists is one of those bizarre ideas that I just can’t wrap my brain around. On the civilian side we’re one of the most heavily armed demographics on Earth.

Hell, the number one movie in America right now is about a Mormon who decided to go to war against child sex traffickers. We really don’t have a problem if bad people get shot!


This is a fundamental historical and deeply philosophical thing for us too. Our scriptures are full of wars and people willing to die for their beliefs, country, and family. We’re the only US religion that got INVADED BY THE US ARMY FOR BEING TOO UPPITY. 😀

The most prolific and successful gun fighter of the old west was Orrin Porter Rockwell, who was basically the living avatar of FAFO. He was so good at killing that he was once accused of trying to assassinate the governor of Missouri, and his defense was basically the dude lived so obviously it hadn’t been me shooting at him, and that was so obvious the jury ACQUITTED HIM.  😀

I’m not gonna debate religious philosophy on the internet, because whenever I mention my religious beliefs on here inevitably some dork is gonna show up and bark at me, but please, for the love of John Moses Browning, if you’re gonna say dumb shit about Mormons… at least get that part right! We’re used to being accused of all sorts of goofy nonsense, but we’re certainly not candy asses!

Writing Update- Graveyard of Demons
Small Town

41 thoughts on “Mormons Can’t Be Warriors?”

  1. A fella at the maker space where I (used to*) hang out announced that his SHTF plan was to just take what he wanted from the Mormons. He seemed boggled when I told him he’d discovered a novel way of committing suicide . . .

    *I parted ways with them when they went full Covid-cuckoo.

  2. And then those same monosynaptic mouthbreathers will turn around and point to the Mountain Meadow Massacre as proof that Mormons are superbadevil. 🤦‍♂️

  3. Ha. The religion that literally tells its worshipers to fortify up and prepare for a year-long-siege is pacifist?


    As to the Amish, depending on what Ordun one belongs to, though they don’t act out, they have no problems hiring outsiders to take care of issues with ‘The English.’ But, still, pacifists. Supposedly. Though they also practice storing for a year type preps, mostly because they try to live frugally and off the land.

    1. The Amish own guns, and hunt. They are physically strong like tempered steel, working day in and day out. and have the stamina to go all day. If push comes to shove, they are human too, and can get “cranky”, and won’t hesitate to defend themselves and family. They have plenty of acreage to hide the bodies.

  4. Philo Farnsworth pointed (electron) guns at billions of people in every country on the planet and on every continent including Antarctica. That has to count for something.

  5. Knowing how disproportionately common Browning’s people are among inventors, I did a search to see if any members were on the Manhattan project. Eldred G. Smith (yes, that Eldred G. Smith) apparently did some kind of work (what exactly is unclear from a cursory search, and is almost certainly highly classified) on the Manhattan Project (and Oak Ridge in general apparently had a fairly sizable contingent).

  6. The first thing I think of when I hear “Mormon” is John Moses Browning. Not my idea of pacifism at all. The first Mormon I ever knew was a Mormon was a CPO who’d been assigned to the Joint Strategic Target Planning Staff after being assigned to boomers. Now I live in the KC area, just south of Independence, and Mormons around here are like fish in water. One of my former employers is part of a group from his stake that goes shooting once a month, and I’ve gone with him. I met some great men and women that I wouldn’t want to be on the wrong side of. Some are ex-military, and some are current LEOs. So whoever the guy is who says Mormons can’t be warriors, he must not know any.

  7. I suspect the “commodore” is so benighted that he’s confused Mormons with Quakers. Quakers are indeed dedicated pacifists (one reason I left) who “utterly deny all outward war and violence…”.

    Back in June, I attended the Pin Shoot in Michigan, with some good friends who are Mormons. Apparently, Mormons are just fine with 12 ga shotguns, extended magazines, 45 pistols, etc. Obviously, Mr. “commodore” is full of it up to his eyeballs!

    1. I’d say he thinks Mormons are Mennonites. They both start with M, they’re both religions … it’s so easy to confuse them.

      Next he’ll point with alarm to the threat of Mennonite terrorism, because “Muslim” also starts with an M.

    2. Or perhaps he’s confused them with Mennonites? Both “Mormon” and “Mennonite” start with M, and Mennonites are basically Amish but aren’t quite as hardcore on the rejection of technology thing.

    3. The maternal side of my family is basically all of the Society of Friends. They don’t call themselves “Quaker”, that’s a derogatory term used by outsiders. They are not pacifists. Over simplified; if a Friend has a moral dilemma they talk to God. God talks back. Whatever the two of them decide it’s the end of the discussion. Some Friends act as pacifists, and certainly most Friends lean that way, but, my grandfather fought in WW1, and an uncle fought in Korea. This comment is in response to SamIAms comment.

  8. I live in a Mormon town, and a while back somebody told me the joke (I hope for his sake it was a joke) about how the best way to get food when the stores shut down will be to raid a Mormon ward.

    My answer: “Dude. No. Nonono.”

    1. I have a sizeable Mormon presence in my suburb. Some of the only people I know out here who are definitely more well-armed than I am. My teotwawki plan is basically to load up everything I can if my suburbs get overrun, and head up the road into the mountains. My family is very good friends with a couple of Mormon families up there, and will be very welcoming if we show up. They know we’ll pull our weight, and they know I can keep their guns running well!

  9. OK, I hurt from laughing as I read that. I have LDS friends and associates. They range from wonderful people to … less than great (yes, they are normal. Imagine that!) None are pacifists. Those are the Quakers, Amish, Mennonite, German Brethren, and one or two other groups. Not LDS.

    Mormons can’t be warriors. *snicker, snicker, bwa ha ha!*

  10. I can’t comment on Mormon bloodthirstyness (if that’s a word), but I can say this: In the 20 years I was in the Air Force I never gave a Mormon a bad performance review, gig them for needing a haircut, tell one to quit screwing around and get to work, or use any of the other punishments and or bad words that I had to with believers from every other religion I came across.

  11. *sigh*
    Look, at least ten men in my family in the last three generations were or are in various branches of the US Armed Forces; I clean house for a WW2 Navy vet, too. All Mormon, to use the colloquial term.
    This not to mention my bishop who worked for Northrop Grumman test firing missiles, or the many others I’ve met at church who had various jobs related to the military, or who were in the Armed Forces themselves.
    Also, several of my brothers stockpile guns like they’re going out of style, and practice with ’em. I’m not particularly proficient, but my niece is a sharpshooter and my dad’s still a scary good shot with his old .22.
    Half my family tree were pioneer stock, and none of them were pacifist so far as I have read, and neither are their descendants. I’m not sure where that idea came from, but it’s laughably false.

    P.S. Utah is one of the only states to have its own Special Forces affiliated with the National Guard. So many missionaries come home speaking a second language that we have our own freaking Special Forces unit. So no, we’re not pacifists, Q.E.D.

  12. 20 years an MI Geek, and as a military linguist ( which does not involve the study of linguistics) I was pretty much surrounded by LDS from day one.
    No problem with the idea of having Mormons on my team or in my unit. Sue, there were a couple who were, shall we say, flakey, but proportionally, no more than other demographics.
    Fun fact: the Utah National Guard has a brigade of “linguists “. In support of which, they brokered a deal for Army linguists to do language refresher training at BYU.

    Also several members of my amateur radio club, all outstanding individuals whom I would gladly stand a watch in an Emergency Operations Center with. (And at least one of whom is a regular at “action shooting” night at the friendly local Merchant of Death.)

    1. True story, my mother-in-law is getting up in years and requires help getting to church on Sunday. She chose a Babtist church when she moved here, and since they’re a Bible-based church I have no issues attending myself. I’m RLDS. 7th generation. A few kin were on the Migration even. But there are no RLDS congregations here, and I’m rather fond of the Babtist pastor, so hey if it’s being taught from the Bible it’s all good so far as I’m concerned. So one fine Sunday the Pastor shakes my hand and asks me if I’ve been saved, the usual drill. I respond that I had, thank you. He asks my name, and I reply that it is Daniel. He proffers that my parents were mighty fine folks to name me after the Biblical man Daniel, famous for the challenge in the lion’s den. “No sir,” I responded. “We’re Mormons. I’m named after the Dannites.” Could have heard a pin drop until I started laughing. Yeah, I couldn’t keep a straight face…

  13. “One of those pseudo intellectual, wannabe philosophers (dork named himself “commodore”) was barfing up some hot takes about “warriors”, and said that the Amish and the Mormons can’t be leaders, only obedient peasants because we’re so peaceful that we don’t have warriors.”

    Larry’s epic rant aside, where the hell does this commodore idiot get off saying you can’t be leaders because they’re peaceful? I could see the argument you can’t be a ruler as a pacifist ( after all might may not make right, but it does force people to listen), but they can’t be leaders? I don’t know about you, but ability to fight was no where on the radar on any of the best leaders I’ve encountered outside of the military. Hell, I’m pretty sure one of my best leaders ever is a pacifist, but damn did she take care of her people while also holding us to a line.

  14. I can think of 2 reasons for this attitude. One is all the Mormon people he knows are like Mitt Romney, or the ones who our host has described as those who would tell Samuel to get off the wall and stop bothering people. 2 even many of the warrior Mormons are those who are quiet warriors – they’re not going to boast about how badass they are, but if they need to act, they’ve acted and finished before the boasters have started acting.

  15. Helped a Mormon friend move a piano once. I was the biggest guy he knew so it was me and like six of his church friends.

    We’re all eating pizza later and he shows off a pistol he got. The other six guys all pull out their concealed weapons and start passing them around.

    Only non Mormon. Only one without a gun.

  16. Last month, my wife was reading a history book about 19th-century America, and reading me various excerpts that caught her attention. (Wish I could remember which book it was, oh well…) The book didn’t focus on the early Mormons and their interactions with the culture around them, but it did mention several of the more famous incidents. Which, shall we say, were not exactly peaceful. I do recall getting the impression that the book was being even-handed: the Mormons were not portrayed as evilbadwrong, but neither were they being portrayed as poor innocent lambs being persecuted for no reason. They were indeed persecuted and picked on, but I have to say, sometimes fairly and sometimes unfairly. Neither side had a monopoly on being right back then, as my admittedly limited understanding goes.

    Actually, the impression my wife and I both came away with from that book is that polygamy, as a widespread cultural practice, tends to lead that culture towards violence as a widespread cultural practice. For various reasons, that include but aren’t limited to having a lot of young men with no prospect of getting married because there aren’t enough women to go around, unless they go and prove themselves in battle. You see it today in the middle east, but you also saw it in parts — not all, but parts — of the Mormon communities in the early days of the Mormon movement.

    1. Forgot to add my main point, which was that anyone who knows the history of the early Mormons would laugh their head off at the assumption that Mormons are a largely peaceful bunch.

  17. Special guy, this Commodore… I served almost 6 years in Light Infantry. I’ve fought next to multiple Mormons. 2 SLs, my SAW gunner, a PL, and multiple guts throughout my Company and Batt. You could always spot them at shower time, with their sweet jockey shorts covered in runes or whatever those symbols were! I literally almost changed my stared religion to Mormon, when I found out they got them I stead of tighty-brownies!

  18. Heh. Major Bernard Fisher saved one of his fellow pilots who was shot down over a Special Forces camp in the A Shau valley during a airstrike. He landed his Skyraider on a tiny airfield under intense enemy fire, picked up his buddy, turned around, gunned the engine, and took off from a very sketchy and short runway under heavy small arms fire, saving his buddy from becoming guest at the Hanoi Hotel. When Fisher landed, his plane was discovered to be full of bullet holes. His buddy wanted to give him a case of booze, but instead had the squadron throw a celebration party serving only soft drinks out of respect for Fisher. BTW, Fisher got a well-deserved MOH. So yeah, us Mormons are a “peculiar people”, but they are dedicated as anyone else watching your six .


    Technically, you could have left it at that.

    No, the dimwits wouldn’t have understood…but they don’t anyway, as they prove on a daily basis.

  20. The Amish take care of problem, out of sight and hearing of “dem English.” They will justify teamstering a small backhoe out where needed, because of “gully repairs”. It’s not like Jakob or ol’ Amos can’t arrange an accident for someone needing it; you just won’t know.

  21. DUDE! Saint John Browning was a Mormon!!??

    I’ll be dipped in . . . something unpleasant.

    I didn’t know that.

    1. This would imply that you have not read Hard Magic… it was explicitly stated there….. You need to move that one up on your Larry Reading list.

  22. “A man who is incapable of violence is not peaceful; he is impotent.
    Only a man who is capable of violence can be peaceful, by choice.”

    (author unknown)

  23. In my ignorance many years ago, I assumed Mormons were pacifists. Then I went to MCRD San Diego with a few and learned differently.

  24. I think it’s funny we’re all skipping right over Mormon, the namesake of the Book of Mormon, the namesake of the nickname we all know…and the title of this post.

    He was a prophet and a military general who started his military leadership at age 15.

  25. I’m Baptist. Way back, bunch of Black kids and guys were in the street in front of our house, just hanging out. It was mentioned that I had access to guns. Well, that shocked them. We were CHRISTIANS. Christians did not carry guns. Why they just did not.

    I was hornswoggled at this notion which was just bizarre to me.

    Now this was a peaceful moment (and not ‘mostly peaceful’) but it was a true culture shock for both sides.

    Might be some of this notion with this guy thinking Mormons don’t carry.

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