Sad Puppies 2: The Debatening!

Okay guys, Hugo nominations are now open. So this is the part where we argue about who to vote for! So I want you guys to make suggestions to the Monster Hunter Nation and those souls brave enough to sign up to combat Puppy Related Sadness.

There are the obvious nominations to end PRS, like Warbound for best novel (puppies love Faye, and Faye loves puppies). And I’ll post my final slate before I turn it in, but I want to hear what you have to say. What other deserving works are out there? Or another way to look at it, what deserving things are out there that the literati twaddle peddlers hate?

I’m nominating Toni Weisskopf for Best Editor, Elitist Book Reviews for Best Fanzine, and I’m nominating Dan Wells’ Butcher of Khardov for Best Novella, first because it was awesome, and second because I bet a random stranger on a game forum, five whole dollars, that I could get a work of game tie in fiction nominated for a Hugo. 🙂

So let’s hear some other ideas. What is out there for novels, novellas, short stories, etc? Please post. If I was a typical literati libprog blogger I would then “manage” or “massage” the comments so that only the stuff I liked appeared so it could be “progressive” or a “happy ending”, but since I’m a flaming capitalist right wing extermist I want my comments to be a blood sport of nerd arguing! WELCOME TO MY THUNDERDOME!

So let’s hear it. What do you think will best alleviate Puppy Related Sadness?

EDIT! forgot to add, you can go here to get your PIN to nominate:

The Drowning Empire, Episode 45: The Duel
Soap Operah Recap, and Sarah Hoyt Wins the Internets

108 thoughts on “Sad Puppies 2: The Debatening!”

  1. I sent in my nominations already but I will update. Most of your suggestions I already had independently but some other people that I really think need to be offered up for the chance.

    1. That started out funny as hell then ended up being a saccharin piece of junk. I didn’t realize I’d read something of Scalzi’s before then looked at his titles. He’s a “message” writer.

      1. No one’s mentioned “Agent to the Stars”, which was my intro to Scalzi. I found it amusing and didn’t really see much in the way of a political message (aside from alien paranoia about xenophobic humans…but if they’re judging us based on our broadcast media that makes a certain degree of sense).

        What I’ve read of his later stuff ranged from meh, to blah.

      2. I enjoyed Old Man’s War a lot and Ghost Brigades somewhat – thereafter I liked his stuff less and less. Then I dropped by his blog a few times (never commented) but when I saw how groupthink was rigidly enforced, I elected to first spend my $ on other authors and on him only if there was a good candidate (none such so far). Scalzi specifically invites people to go elsewhere if they don’t like his blog, and I took him up on it.

        But then I am a cis-male gender normative hatey mc-hatey randian (with a nod to our host).

        All that said, I hear that he has a movie deal underway for Redshirts. It will be interesting to see if the SFWA / Whatever audience is broad enough to give the film a good box take.

  2. I’m nominating Brad Torgersen’s eligible short works, and I strongly recommend your readers do the same. (But somehow, I don’t think this suggestion will generate much controversy. Sorry!)

    1. Not here it wouldn’t. But Brad signed THE PETITION, which makes him guilty of badthink, so heads could explode if he’s nominated again.

      Which just makes me want to root for him that much more 🙂

      1. I love Brad’s stuff. No argument there.

        And remember everybody, we can nominate up to 5 things in every category!

    2. These are the Brad Torgersen eligible short works I already nominated, let me know if I missed any:

      Best Novella: The Chaplain’s Legacy
      Best Novelette: The Exchange Officers
      Best Novelette: Gemini 17

  3. Under a Graveyard Sky by John Ringo was pretty amazing. One of the best zombie books I’ve read in a while.

    Come and Take Them by Tom Kratman. It’s a great book, but it would also really tick off the puppy haters if Kratman is nominated. If they think Larry is evil, Kratman is like Satan crossed with George Bush and Hitler.

    Democracy’s Right by Christopher Nuttall. I know independently published books don’t usually win, but Nuttall is a great author. He writes about a book a month and they’re all awesome.

    Just some recommendations. Feel free to use/ridicule them.

      1. I read Quantum Mortis and it felt kind of meh. As much as I love making the Elites’ heads explode, I’m not going to get behind something if there are other things I like more that will cause almost as much teeth gnashing.

      2. @BornLib thanks a lot for that link. I really like its tone of optimism grounded in realism.

        It seems like every time I read anything about energy production there’s always way more weeping and wailing about how horrible any suggested solution/energy source is. It’s very frustrating to me that the same people who bewail coal/oil as destroying our world through AGW (which I don’t believe in), also bemoan every practical solution. Natural gas still pollutes! Fracking poisons drinking water! Hydropower destroys ecosystems! I’ve even read “concerns” over Wind & Solar… and don’t even *think* about Nuclear! Apparently, if you listen to the hype, we’re doomed no matter what we try to do. It’s gotten to the point where I just wouldn’t care, except for how much influence it’s having on politics.

        It’s really nice to read something that’s optimistic. And it’s optimism is much more grounded in reality than the pessimism I’m more used to reading. It’s going on my nomination list.

    1. I’ve been reading some of Nutall’s stuff too. He’s definitely progressed as an author.

      And I got my name in one of his books, so I’ve got that going for me….

      1. I did a bit of editing for him in the Ark forums, but about halfway through the project I was proofing life threw me under a truck work wise and I had to focus on that.

    2. I can totally get behind “Under a Graveyard Sky.” I’d say it’s THE best zombie book I’ve read (as opposed to book with zombies in it, like certain Monster Hunters I know 🙂 ). And yes, I’m saying that over World War Z.

      1. I just can’t take DayZ seriously after their portrayal of firearms. I think Max Brooks has very little experience with guns, he just read a bunch about them.

        He also, like most other Zombie Apocalypse books, ignores the fact that you could just get into a tank or APC, make sure the NBC filters are working, and then just run over everything in your path. Ringo at least has the airborne component of the virus that means unit cohesion will have broken down to the point where logistics just couldn’t support a tank in the field.

  4. Is A Few Good Men by Sarah Hoyt eligible. Excellent work and would piss off the establishment as much as Warbound would. And shock the hell out of the leftists when they discovered that all Sarah’s characters are gay or female, or tan or whatever:)

      1. To follow up n Steve 🙂

        Initially Sarah and Kate were
        “Rai and Jiri at Lungha. Rai of Lowani. Lowani under two moons. Jiri of Ubaya. Ubaya of crossroads, at Lungha. Lungha, her sky fray.”
        “The beast at Tanagra”

        So they described the problem
        “Temba, his arms wide/open”

        They were all like:
        “Kiteo, his eyes closed”
        “Zinda, his face black, his eyes red.”

        Then Sarah was:
        “Uzani, his army with fists open”
        “Uzani, his army with fists closed”
        “Chenz at court, the court of silence”

        Now Sarah is
        “Mirab, with sails unfurled”

    1. Yes it is; published in 2013. Just for fun so was Noah’s Boy. And as most of the characters in that aren’t completely human, the whole cis/trans/multi/no gender thing doesn’t apply.

      1. First three books sure. But there was a point just before I stopped reading and just be for Robert Jordan died were I basically skipped 2/3’s of a book because it was extremely boring. My friend explained it best, The Relina Peacecraft period. I don’t remember her name but the Princess wife and her kingdom bit were boring and after spending 20 bucks on a book only to read maybe a hundred pages. I decided enough was enough. He should have stopped at three.

    1. Also, let’s not forget that the entire basis of the Wheel of Time’s magic system is that, on a fundamental level, men and women are different.

      A vote for Wheel of Time is a vote for Cismale Gendernormative Facism!

  5. I just finished Lights in the Deep last night and it was awesome, but I’m not sure which of those stories are currently eligible.

    Sanderson’s Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell is pretty good too and he’s provided an email address on his blog where nominators and voters can request a free copy. He does already have a Hugo though.

    Also, I hate that Warbound is going to be up against the entire Wheel of Time series. I want you both (or all three, I guess) to win.

    1. I think these are the ones eligible from Lights in the Deep:

      Best Novella: The Chaplain’s Legacy
      Best Novelette: The Exchange Officers
      Best Novelette: Gemini 17

  6. Not sure if you all already know about this, but due to a quirk in the rules for nomination that says that a single work published in multiple parts is eligible for nomination the year its final part is published, and the fact that final Wheel of Time book came out last year, the entire Wheel of Time series as a whole is eligible for nomination for best novel this year. They’ve also said that they’re willing to accept this interpretation of the rules, and that if the series as a whole gets more nominations than A Memory of Light, they’ll roll them together and give the nomination to whichever one gets more.

    I enjoyed Sanderson’s work on the Wheel of Time an awful lot, and even though A Memory of Light might arguably be best novel materiel itself, I don’t think it deserves it nearly as much as the full series. It might not be perfect, but for better or for worse the impact it made on the fantasy genre can’t be denied. (Whether the impact it made was actually a GOOD thing or not might be up for debate, but it certainly made a greater impact on the genre than anything since Tolkien.) Besides, I think it would be really cool to see Robert Jordan get some kind of recognition for his work, (aside from ridiculous sales, obviously) even if it’s only posthumously.

    The idea of whether or not a series 13 super-huge novels should really be considered a single novel for purposes of the award is a trickier one, but considering that the biggest criticism levelled on the series is how each book (except POSSIBLY the first three) doesn’t really contain any sort of self-contained narrative, and it just kind of meanders around with nothing happening most of the time, I think it’s a fair argument to make.

    Anyway, that’s all I’ve got. I know a series as big as the Wheel of Time probably doesn’t need MY help very much, but I really like the idea of a posthumous award for Jordan, so I’ve been pimping the idea everywhere I can. Unfortunately, I can’t in good faith nominate any of your stuff, as I’ve so far only read the first two Monster Hunter books and the first Grimnoir book. (I’m an active duty Marine, and didn’t have nearly as much time to read last year as I would have liked, except for listening to audiobooks while running/going to the gym.) If they were up for nomination this year, though, I would have been happy to!

      1. Haha, yeah, too true about the wordiness. At least I’m in the right audience for it, am I right?

        (Also, is there some sort of limit on how long a thread can be here? I can’t seem to find the option to reply to the comment I was trying to reply to.)

        1. WordPress only allows it to go down like 3 levels (unless you are typing this in the admin window like I am now)

    1. Does this mean that The Grimnoir Trilogy as a whole could be nominated as well as Warbound? It’d be entertaining if both of them made the list as a result of that interpretation of the rules.

      1. I vote for Grimnoir Trilogy. Over WoT. Which sorry, with 6 volumes of unnecessary dross & filler, does not deserve a single work nomination. Really, I’m not going to endorse ANYTHING in WoT from book 5-10. Dreadful.

      2. Oh man, yeah, I think it just might! And best of all, I wouldn’t feel bad about nominating it, since I’ve already read the first book. (Or I could just, you know, quit whining about how much time I have and finish the damn series, but eh, I just don’t have enough tiiiiiime…)

        The main problem I see with the idea is that if Grimnoir as a whole does get the nomination, they’ll probably retroactively decide that the Wheel of Time as a whole can’t be nominated either, just so they can exclude Grimnoir, and I really do want the Wheel of Time to win. But if your main goal is to shake up the system, or if you just don’t want the Wheel of Time to win, then it seems like a great idea. Of course, they might also decide that Grimnoir isn’t eligible as a whole because it doesn’t have that same “meandering story with no narrative focus in the individual novels” quality that Wheel of Time does, but I still think it would be worth the nomination just to see what happens. Considering how big of a deal the Wheel of Time thing is in the Hugos this year, I think it would be fitting to make a nomination that mirros that situation, especially if you’re trying to highlight how ridiculous the whole process is in the first place.

        It does occur to me, though, that even though they said they’re going to roll nominations for the Wheel of Time and A Memory of Light into whichever one gets more nominations, they’ve made no such promises about Grimnoir. I don’t see how they could avoid doing that in good faith, but I wouldn’t put it past them either. So if we are going to nominate Grimnoir collectively, Larry should probably make another Sad Puppies post asking people to do it, so we can make sure everybody’s nominating the same thing, and they’ll all be counted.

        Either way, thanks for the idea! If they both get the nomination I’ll still be voting for the Wheel of Time (sorry!) but I’m definitely on board with the idea of nominating Grimnoir.

      3. I gave up on Jordan after the first book. Somewhere in the mid-20s, I lost count of the number of parallels between it and Lord of the Rings.

    2. Does that mean that Hitchiker’s Guide to the Galaxy:
      originally a standalone

      1 The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (standalone)
      2 The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
      3 Life, the Universe and Everything (trilogy)
      4 So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish (4th book of trilogy)
      5 Mostly Harmless (“5th book of increasingly inaccurately named Hitchiker’s Guid trilogy”)
      Douglas Adams dies…
      6 And Another Thing (#6)

      So, it looks like HG2G in it’s entirety was eligible 5 times, as the trilogy just kept getting bolt-ons.

      I vote Grimnoir.

  7. Peter Clines has a pretty amazing series called the Ex-Heroes series. It involves a zombie plague that occurs in a world that has superheroes. Even if it doesn’t get nominated, I strongly suggest reading the series. I have read the first 2 out of the 4 that are available, and they are excellent reads.

    1. Read all 4. It is a really good series. And it has a ton of colored super hero’s so the liberal’s should love it to. Even with the most hetero white main character ever. I mean is secret identity is George Bailey.

  8. I’ve already started filling out my nomination form. I have a lot of suggestions.

    Best Novella
    The Chaplain’s Legacy, Brad R Torgerson, Analog

    Best Short Story
    By the Hands of Juan Peron, Eric James Stone, Daily Science Fiction
    Cop for a Day, Chrome Oxide, Writers of the Future (because it completely skewers liberalism).
    The War of Peace, Trina Marie Phillips, InterGalactic Medicine Show

    Best Graphic Story
    Mouse Guard Volume 3:The Black Axe, David Perterson, Archaia Entertainment. (It’s a bit juvenile, but Saga is probably going to get nominated again and I’m tired of SF/F losing out to porn.)

    Best Dramatic Presentation (Long Form)
    Ender’s Game, Gavin Hood, Summit Entertainment. (Because it’s apparently an anti-gay movie with no actual anti-gay themes or messages.)

    Best Dramatic Presentation (Short Form)
    The Legend of Korra–Beginings, Colin Heck, Michael Dante DiMartino, Ian Graham, Studio Mir. (Because why can’t an awesome anime/steampunk/kung-fu show get nominated?).

    Best Professional Artist
    Steve Argyle, because I like Legend of the Five Rings.

    Best Semiprozine (Do we really need the same 5 magazine being nominated every time)
    Orson Scott Card’s InterGalactic Medicine Show, Edmund R Schubert (This might just be to taunt people).
    Daily Science Fiction, Michele-Lee Barasso and Jonathan Ladan. (They’re publishing hundred of professional paying short SF/F stories a year as a hobby and to help authors make money.)

    I’m also tempted to add Sarah Hoyt for best fan writer, just off of yesterdays post, though technically that wouldn’t be eligible until next year.

    And for the Campbell: Helene Wecker, Wesley Chu, Brian McClellan, and Max Gladstone.

  9. For the record, it is of vital import to get Butcher of Khardov on that list. Not only would it enrage literati, but it would bring attention to a good company.

    1. So, just to make sure I understand the rules: Eligible works would be things published (What counts as “published”? Just on paper?) in 2013, that otherwise hit the relevant category metrics?

      1. Based upon information provided on a certain mailing list in a 1500 post flamefest that resulted from the “objection to consideration” that was raised to a proposed “young adult Hugo” at the preliminary business meeting at Lone Star Con 3, “published” in the Hugo rules means “made available to the public.”

        My understanding (again, based solely upon said flamefest, and not based upon any reading of the actual rules–where’s the fun in that?) is that a work is considered “made available to the public” whether the work was distributed electronically or on paper unless the distribution was so small as to not count as being available “to the public.”

        There was also a huge digression on whether or not an audiobook should count as a book or as a dramatic work. Casualties in the digression were especially heavy so both sides left the field defeated.

        1. But where is the fun in winning for an audiobook? I’ve already won all of those awards. 😀 (oh, how that must irk the literati so!)

  10. How about Take the Star Road (Peter Grant) and Ride the Rising Tide(same)? Put Peter, Sarah, Brad, and Larry’s books down for your 2013 novels.

    Litterati head ‘splodiness? Done.

  11. My personal list has some of these people for Best Novel (my list on Elitist Book Reviews will likely be a little different due to multiple people weighing in):

    Ian Tregillis – Necessary Evil
    Robert Jackson Bennett – American Elsewhere
    Emperor of Thorns – Mark Lawrence
    Tyrant’s Law – Daniel Abraham
    Warbound – Some dude

    There were some awesome novels last year that deserve attention.

  12. Larry Niven, Michael Harrington The Goliath Stone -Nanotech geniuses oppressed by liberals win all the Olympic medals while making humanity immortal- more good jokes than any SF novel since The Thurb Revolution.

  13. I’d vote for Magic Rises, by Ilona Andrews. Tyrant’s Law by Daniel Abraham, The Grimnoire Chronicles (or Warbound if we can’t agree to invoke the WoT clause for some guy).

    And I agree that Tyrant’s Law was outstanding. It’s a very good series with characters that have grown and changed, and a couple good kick in the teeth plot twists. Epic Fantasy As It Should Be.

  14. My eligible works are as follows:

    QUANTUM MORTIS Gravity Kills
    The Wardog’s Coin


    Short Story:
    Opera Vita Aeterna (from The Last Witchking)

    I respectfully request no nominations for QUANTUM MORTIS A Man Disrupted, as I am supporting WARBOUND for Best Novel.

  15. Slight mistake:


    Opera Vita Aeterna (from The Last Witchking)
    Qalabi Dawn (from The Wardog’s Coin)

    No Short Story

    1. Yes, yes it is. It and possibly The Wardog’s Coin would be my two favourites of the eligible works that I’ve actually read. (I keep meaning to order the Grimnoir Chronicles, but I keep forgetting)

  16. Taking advantage of the option to nominate more than one per category:

    Novel: Warbound by our gentle host, Eight Million Gods by Wen Spencer, Under a Graveyard Sky by Ringo.
    Novella: Pittsburgh Backyard and Garden by Wen Spencer
    Novelette: Exchange Officers by Brad Torgerson, Dog’s Body by Sarah A. Hoyt
    Related Work: Indie Author Survival Guide by Susan Kaye Quinn
    Graphic Story: Spacetrawler by Christopher Baldwin (webcomic, check it out)
    Dramatic Long: Gravity, Frozen
    Dramatic Short: Castle “Time Will Tell”, season 6 episode 5 (Yes, this is not normally SF, but that episode had time travel for real) (Sorry, totally spoiled the reveal)
    Editor Long: Toni Weisskopf
    Fancast: Stuff You Like by Sursum Ursa (mostly media, but covers Honor Harrington and other books)
    Campbell Award: Hugh Howey, for the trad-pub head explosions

    1. Hugh Howey is not eligible for the Campbell Award as he has been published in SF/F since 2009. The Campbell Award requires that the nominee first published in SF/F within 2 years of the award year. So this year, it has be an author who first published in 2012 or 2013.

      1. Jeff, is listing Howey as in his second year of eligibility. I presumed it was because they were counting from his trad contract (SFWA-approved) not his indie books.

  17. Ok let’s see.

    For novels:

    Well, there’s mine. 😛 But then I’m a nobody so never mind. 😉

    But seriously how about Dust by Hugh Howey. Hugh is awesome, his books are awesome, and they’re self published which is sure to make a number of heads explode. Hard to go wrong there.

    What else. Oh! Fancasts:

    Not sure if they meet the strict letter of the law regarding eligibility, but the Self Publishing Podcast and Better Off Undead (done by the same guys) are great. And again, self publishing. Head explosions. Potentially endless fun. 🙂 The Dead Robots’ Society is another good one.

    Not sure what category to put it in, but Tincture is a podcasted post-apocalyptic story that’s very cool.

    That’s all I have at the moment. It seems lately I’m mostly reading older stuff that I missed when it first came out or was just before my time. I’ll have to remedy that this year. Maybe.

    1. While I’m thinking about it, how about Howey for the Campbell? Wool was first “professionally” published in 2013, right, when S&S picked it up. So he’d be eligible right? Or do I not understand the nuances of the award requirements.

      1. More ideas.

        Kris Rusch and Dean Wesley Smith for editor, short form, for their Fiction River anthology series. Some great stuff in there.

        Best Long Form Dramatic Presentation – Gravity. Seriously, talk about a freaking great bit of filmmaking there.

      2. The Campbell awards eligibility is based on when the author is first published. It is an author award, not an award for an individual work. Howey first published in 2009. Also, a self-published work was nominated last year in the novelette category (In Sea Salt Tears, but Seanan Mcguire). A number of the Best Related Work nominees have been from indie publishers. The Nebulas seems to avoid indie and self-published, but traditional publishing has less sway over the Hugos.

        1. Yeah but it’s from when the author was first “professionally” published. ex – Mur Lafferty had self-published a bunch of stuff throughout the late 00s and had a novel out at lower than pro rates. Then in, I want to say 2011, she sold a short story at pro rates and got a pro-rate book deal in 2012. She won the Campbell last year. So it seems previously self-pub’ing or semi-pro pub’ing doesn’t start the Campbell clock. Hence my thoughts re: Hugh. Then again, he doesn’t show up in the official list of eligibles on the Campbell website, so I guess it’s moot anyway.


      3. Previous Campbell Award eligibility judge here (and no, I’m not a SFWAn). Campbell Award eligibility is tricky. The two-year clock only starts ticking when the author’s qualifying work first becomes eligible, which is not necessarily when it is first published. Specifically:

        For a self-published novel-length work (e.g. one NOT published by one of the SFWA-approved “qualifying venues” or one of the Dell award sponsor’s designated venues) the clock does not start ticking until 10,000 copies have sold. So a 2009 self-published work does not automatically start that 2-year clock ticking. Gotta make those 10K sales to start the clock.

        There are other caveats. Non-fiction and poetry works don’t start that clock, nor do pubs out of genre, etc. The Writertopia FAQ can tell you more.

      4. Also please note that the Campbell Award is not-a-Hugo, and has its own set of rules specified by the award sponsor (Dell) which differ quite a bit from Hugo rules.

  18. I would like to urge everyone to vote for Terry Pratchetts Raising Steam for best novel. I strongly feel Pratchett deserves an award for his Discworld series. Genuinely funny fiction is in my opinion, the hardest to write and Pratchett has pulled it off again a and again without getting repetitive. And he also manages to add in ‘message’ without compromising the story.
    From Night Watch ” Raising the flag and singing the national anthem, while suspicious, are not in themselves acts of treason”

    1. While I agree with you on Pratchett’s awesomeness, and might just put that one up for nomination myself, as far as being awarded for Discworld goes, I think I’d take being knighted over getting a Hugo any day of the week.

  19. I don’t know what to nominate. I’m just reading comments so that I can write down books that I haven’t read yet.

    Y’all are awesome.

    Carry on.

  20. While, I will be nominating both Mr. Correia and Mr. Kratman, because I am a big fan and want to see heads explode, I would also like to suggest the novel “Terms of Enlistment” by Marko Kloos. He self published on his own then got picked up by a publisher.

    It was a great little Heinlein-esque story.

  21. Along with Elitist Book Reviews for Best Fanzine, what about Mad Genius Club? I don’t know who would be considered the editor (I went with Amanda Green) but talk about heads exploding!

  22. Bryan Thomas Schmidt is eligible for Short Form Editor. Last year he edited a Novelette I self published and also released a couple fun Space Opera anthologies: Raygun Chronicles: Space Opera for a New Age and Beyond the Sun. He’s a fantastic human being and publishes people like Mike Resnick (Catastrophe Baker!) and Sarah Hoyt. He also got attacked by the angry SFWA mob last year for having the temerity to suggest they should tone down the angst.

    And besides… do we really want the same Sheila Williams, John Joseph Adams, Stanley Schmidt, Jonathan Strahan, and Neil Clarke combo we’ve seen for something like 10 years straight? They are nice enough folks but they’ve been trading Hugos forever while a Hugo win would be huge for Bryan’s career.

  23. I paid my $40, but I don’t want to work too hard, so I’d really like to see a suggested ballot at the end of the discussion. Copy-and-paste is my friend.

    1. We did a post last week where fans offered up some suggestions. I’m going to do another post later where I put up what I’m personally voting for.

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