More fun with trolls, Furry the Teutonic panda bear

Ahh… The stuff that I get to put up with on the internets.   THREE years ago I put up a blog post about how I personally thought HK was overrated. (and remember, three years in internet time meant that dinosaurs roamed the Earth) I made it humorous and based it on my experience working with HK products.  Well, that rant kind of became a meme and went on to get a bazillion hits. You can’t really have a thread on the internet about an HK product without somebody the whole You Suck and We Hate You bit.

The funny thing is that I’ve heard from people in the industry that I trust, that HK has been trying really hard to improve their customer service and image over the last few years.  (not that they would admit to the Suck & Hate You being a motivator, but everybody in the audience knew) AWESOME. That’s great. Bravo. I hope they kick ass, make wonderful guns, sell a ton of them, and then give service with a smile.

But I still, to this day, have moronic fanbois jumping on to give me a piece of their mind. I’ve been called every name you can think of, because basically I think their favorite guns are just “meh” with a couple that rate an “okay I guess” to some of their new products that are probably good, but it doesn’t matter because you can’t own it.

I don’t normally respond to those, (unless they are unintentionally hilarious and I need to poke them). But there’s been this one jackass hanging around lately that needs a bigger response than I can give him in the comments section.  There are many like him, but he’ll serve as an example. He’s either one of the dumbest fanbois to come down the pike, or he’s a brilliant troll.

So this post is dedicated to the nature of fanbois rather than any particular company.  As usual, our special guest star is in italics. I’m in bold.  (Mike Williamson joins in, and gets regular font).

Oh, and his name is Furies. Which I read as Furries, you know, those people that dress up as animals to do kinky stuff, and that visual just make the whole experience that much weirder.  

The little town of Oberndorf on the Neckar has been making the finest firearms in the world for over 150 years – call it Mauser Werkes or Heckler Koch or what have you… The people that work there would probably call it H und K, since Mauser is an entirely different company these people know metallurgy – using alloys and temperature variance to create precision on a quantum level –

No. Really. On the QUANTUM LEVEL!  Your HK can literally travel through time and kill tangos in an alternative universe.  (I don’t think that word thinks what you think it means).


Ziggy, hand me my MP-5!


though, like the japanese sword-smiths, they weren’t initially sure why the greatness occurred – these days…they know.

Union labor?

The HK marketing department isn’t that big. It does not have to be. They simply organize testing of their products which sell themselves.

Some guy named Hans with a marketing degree from Stuttgart State just got fired because of you.

A separate firm creates the licensed logo “shwag” that moves so promptly on ebay – SOP for any company with govt contracts anywhere in the world

I know I can’t go anywhere without running into people wearing Haliburton logo gear.

The German mastery of creating metal characteristics is also reflected in the car industry, where they have consistently churned out stiffer chassis’ than any other country by more than ten years of product – tight handling and safe + forgiving.

Jeremy Clarkson is posting on my blog! BRILLIANT!

Just like their guns – they easily make average shooters/drivers into comparatively better than than the competition, right out of the box/off the lot –

It must be all that Quantum Leaping.

 it’s what their massive engineering R&D is dedicated to.

They stuck a 1940s era gas piston on a 1960s era rifle. BRILLIANT!

Mercedes just crash tested their 60,000th car – for what they cost and how their built it seems a shame. But it is the safest car in the world. I agree…what’s your family’s life worth? Hehhehh

Well, since my kids could probably outshoot Furry with a used Kel-Tec, I’m not too worried. As for what Furry is worth, I’d have to ask his “manager”.

Then Super Author Michael Z. Williamson had to join the fray:

Ah, a perfect little drone. I see the marketing worked on you.

Ask anyone with experience and they’ll take a PPSh or Sterling over an MP5. Since you’re so knowledgeable, tell us what differences you experienced between the three, and why you chose the MP5. You DO have actual trigger time on an MP5, yes? You’re not just citing an opinion based on marketing, are you?

Nothing wrong with Mausers, but Mosin Nagants work just as well, cheaper. Of course, neither is in military production anymore.

The FAL, the AR series and the AK series have sold millions more units to dozens more countries than H&K. In fact, Germany’s new G36 is based on the AR18. It seems they preferred that to the HundK offering. Oops.

Back to the Furry

Muahhaahhahhaaaaaa – now I know you are kidding around with this whole thing – PPsH tipped it off…unless you are a poor Albanian terrorist “operator” I’ll have you know Albanians are very proud of their phone system then your modern choice of arms definitely drops the dime on this sham flamer blog. Which is odd, because he’s responding to Mike, not me. I’m thinking Furry looks up from his stained Winnie the Pooh costume long enough to type a response. I don’t think he’s got time to check names.  

Funny though, especially when you whine about stamped steel in HK’s lineup but prefer the war rationeering, punched out of tin plates, could-make-one-yourself-in-ten-days-with-anvil-and-barstock…sten and ppsh.

For the record, I love the PPsh. It is a blast to shoot. Back when I was in the gun business we had two. One in 7.62 and one in 9mm. They were epic fun.

Which are reliable bullet hoses spraying all around your target area, then sometimes cooking off the last 20 rounds of a drum as it jumps skyward.

I’ve shot a lot of rounds through a PPsH. Furry starts to sound more ignorant the more he talks. (kind of like an Obama supporter that).  I suppose since the Russians didn’t have Germanic Quantum cooling they’d often cook off 20 rounds… in an open bolt subgun. Uh huh.

As for jumping… Naw. Those things are tanks. Good stance and you could dump an entire drum into a single target no problem.

And the soviets did beat the germans with em in ww2, not the mosin-nagants which were outshot by the mausers, but….hehhhehhh pretty funny guy…

I always kind of figured it was that whole bazillion angry Russians combined with us bombing the ever-living crap out of every factory in the country rather than the superiority of our infantry guns. But hey, whatever…

like there would be 25 companies here and around making tons of cash selling licensed copies of either of your choices. Vector (which is out of business) and Special Weapons (and all ten of its different names) has made TONS of cash… Literally. Tons.

Or an airsoft empire built mostly from clones of your guns. Yes. Because nothing shows who is superior than airsoft! Witness my perfection. Newbs.

It would be impressive if a small private ad campaign to LE and Mil only, from a company that doesn’t actually net enough cash to be bribing anybody, could somehow cause the entire world to respect, fear, and worship the polygonal end of it’s muzzle. I don’t think he read the original blog post…

But that’s what makes it funny, right? Like saying Tom Clancy’s and idiot who knows nothing? Because everybody knows the be all end all expert on all things small arms is Tom Clancy. Excuse me, I’ve got to go clean my 10mm Beretta.

 Though he has been writing some self-promoting moralizing movie script books these past ten years, Cripes! Furry is a book critic too! even Red Storm Rising had MP5s taking down Soviets back in what, the early 1980s. Aaaand that proves your point… how?

Wait. Mike and I are novelists too. So apparently whatever Ripple Creek or MHI is equipped with must be awesome. (which they are, because both of us know more about guns than Tom Clancy, which actually isn’t saying a whole lot. No offense, Tom)

Of course as far as the AR – I love my RRA but its for the fam, the HK91 is what Ivescrew you apostrophe. I don’t need you!- been shooting for 18 years and after 25k or so rounds… of far reaching, tight shooting, one shot dropping ab22 euro milsurp.. (only 2 ellipses, so he’s no friend of Nickwolf!)

Hmmm… I don’t think I’ve ever said that the HK91 was unreliable. Unergonomic, lots of dumb design features, going for scalper’s prices, but it does run about as well as a FAL.  

the only jam was in the first clip out of the brand new box. Sure, easy when you just have to sit on the porch, too lazy to ever clean the gun. Yep. I don’t really clean my guns until they start to malfunction. The thing is I’ve shot my serious ones enough to know just about how far that is. 500 rounds through my 1911 (800 if shooting lead).  When I was shooting 3gun I cleaned my Veprs once a year, whether they need it or not. Shooting is fun. Cleaning is work. But I digress.

But let’s fast forward to those that are fighting for us today and who can’t clean their guns because they are being shot at…

Which reminds me of the recent DOD test that the SCAR won, followed by the HK416 and XM8, in which they all had a few jams, but the current M4 had 100′s of fail-to-fire’s. When did I suddenly become the defender of the M-4 carbine? Sigh.

Marketing? Their mascot is Delta Force? Internet fanboi’s love to throw around Delta, and it is usually because Delta just bought a limited number of whatever their favorite gun is. Hate to break it to you chumps, but those guys are rock stars. They go through piles of guns. They buy some of everything.

Side note- I’ve got an interesting story of a procurement by that particular entity that I wonder if I’m allowed to share. I know some of the guys at this particular gun company read this blog, so if I can say what they bought, please let me know. (probably not). But it sure wasn’t one of your typical euro-uber guns, (much nicer actually) and it was a mess of them.

Those guys get trailers full of gear. They’re super heroes. And you’re not. Even if you bought exactly what they were using, you’ll never be that cool.

When the Colt barrel melts in the youtube video, could that be in ze evil germans new york advertising office? Hehhehh – but you are not as funny on these other blog topics.   

If you think I dislike HK, you should hear my opinion on Colt. (overrated) I’m shocked that steel melts when you get it hot enough…

At this point, several other posters piled on Furry. So at this point he gets all fired up about defending, of all things, the superiority of the MP-5.

Note, for my non-gun readers, the MP-5 is a shoulder fired weapon that uses a pistol cartridge. Which means it is far weaker, shorter range, and less effective than something chambered in an actual rifle cartridge. The entire tactical industry moved away from the pistol caliber subguns big time over the last two decades. Everybody in the gun business knows this. 

Geodike, your reply was hilariously ignorant. Starting with reliability-yes a ppsh41 may be more so, but a baseball bat is far more so. You want to bring that to the fight hoping luck’s on your side and the MP5 might jam? Wow. Just wow. Yes. That’s my entire strategy.  Or how about I just shoot you with my &^%ing gun?

Compare the ammo and the 9mm loses? In a shoulder fired weapon. Yes. It sucks.

Try a .40 MP5. Getting warmer.

No? How about a 10mm MP5 Both of which were discontinued a long time ago, because everybody switched to a 5.56 M-4 if you truly want your subguns completely overwhelmed in accuracy, reach, and power. Use a rifle cartridge?

Again, what is your mission? Mowing down small villages… your guns shine, but say your son has a gun to his head at 30 yards and is being forced into a leaving van? This apparently happens a lot in the Furry community.

One chance…and what tool do professionals (not you) choose when they must make that choice at any moment every day? Well, judging from something like 95% of the SWAT teams in the country, a 5.56 caliber carbine?

I don’t think HK convinced movie or game companies to promote their products. And if you do, then why is HK suing companies for ‘use without permission’ and forcing replica makers to cease and desist? Isn’t that called the opposite? Just once I’d like one of my trolls to be able to stick with a train of thought…

Steyr Aug, Mac10, M76? Discussing gun companies that no else mentioned proves your premise weak and defenseless-distracting others from the main point is becoming an obvious trend as you falter. WTF? What is your main point? That the obvious choice of professionals is a gun that was discontinued a decade ago because it was really unpopular and didn’t sell well?

If I have to explain to a ‘current military systems engineer’ why a standard AR DI gas system heats up faster than a piston system, than a new level of government waste has just been reached. Here he is responding to somebody who actually does this stuff for a living with Furry’s typical aplomb. But in his defense, it probably gets really hot inside a giant panda bear suit, so he’s probably in a foul mood.

 See the guy holding the 416 bolt seconds after a 2clip mag dump? You try that with a DI system and your palm will sound and smell like the bacon’s almost ready. Because in combat, you often have to field strip your firearm and hold the bolt.

If you knew that perhaps it would be shocking. Don’t touch hot stuff? What?

Which system will last longer and remain accurate? Or even fire reliably from under water WHAAAT?  (reason given why the SEALS based in Japan just ordered all HK416s)?  SEALs based in Japan have their own procurement system because they shoot their rifles… under water…

REAL soldiers don’t have to anything but fight and survive – there is nothing “routine” about it or it wouldn’t be so hard. And push ups suck. It may be that we have to repel Chinese the way we did in North Korea, and you say, “it may” go ten thousand rounds? How about, “it will” go 600 rounds. You are fighting the last war with this mentality-not the next one. Is this why I want a 10mm pistol cartridge to repel human wave attacks… Wait, by his logic earlier, isn’t this the part where you should use a baseball bat?

And why would a “REAL army” be worried about ammo variation? Logistics? They would own a weapon system where the ammo is already optimized (like HK’s). Oops. I’m not even sure which particular gun he’s talking about, but all of the HK guns that have ever entered production that I’m aware of shoot standard military ammo.

Norway’s freeze issues were blamed on lack of prep (no break-in on test rifles). Oopsie daisies! Actually, the test guns passed. IIRC these were issued weapons.  Ooopsie daises!

And duh. It is cold. Guns freeze. (even Quantum ones) I remember reading about a test in the arctic awhile back and the winner was the Galil.

You want to field an effective army with the least training possible from a tactical standpoint. So why would you desire a weapon that requires more time to train and is more prone to problems? Burst technology – OBJECTION! Find me any soldier anywhere that prefers the idiotic 3 round burst and it’ll be the first one I’ve ever met- and most other HK innovations allow the untrained to equal an enemy and the trained to better them.  WTF? No, really? Huh?  

That is why they are great. And expensive. Are you listening to yourself? They’re great and expensive because 3 round burst it makes the untrained better? Current military doctrine for riflemen is rapid aimed semi-auto.

And for the record, just because I’m not an MP-5 doesn’t mean I don’t know how to use one. I’ve use versions with 2 and 3 shot bursts. Useless feature. Pull the friggin’ trigger and let go when you’re done. DUH.  I got to where I could run one on full auto and squeeze off single shots. You just have to get on and off the trigger quick.

The other reason they are expensive is people who buy $900 guns don’t cause class action suits as readily as people who buy $200 guns. Poor people never sue… Excuse me. I done fell over at WalMart! Woot! I done won the lottery!

And limiting distribution volume undermines those lawyers arguments immensely. I got a business degree, and I’m pretty sure that wasn’t in there. What a crock of dumb.

In a way, we do suck and they would be right to hate us, if they did, because we allowed those lawyers to become congressmen. By avoiding US lawsuits, their money stays in the research and development department. That doesn’t even make any sense. Selling makes you liable period, so they sell less on purpose… so they’ll be… huh?

Who wrote that business plan? The underwear gnomes? Step 3. PROFIT!

Where it can apparently further amaze you. You made an AR18 out of plastic? Will it butter my toast? No. Then screw you, Fritz!

You say the future of ammo is caseless when it’s already history. HK had working models firing caseless ammo in the 1970s (German reunification cancelled it’s production and sent the company briefly reeling). Except it had all sorts of problems, didn’t work very well, and was shot out of a gun that’s insides looked like a clock.

Bonus points for trying though.

If you want the future, it’s in the present: XM25, a 25mm that’s a good match for your WW2 guns in a fair fight. Oh wait. That’s not fair at all. So a 25mm cannon is more than a match for a gun that was built 60 years ago (based on a design by John Browning from WWI)? Whew. That’s progress.  My 2007 Ford Taurus goes faster than a ’32 Packard, and it isn’t even German!

Then more people kicked him about like a mentally-disabled beach ball, but Furry wasn’t deterred.

Maybe this whole thing is a practice session for character development in a book. Oh, God no. I’d never inflict you on my readers.  Start with an absurd assertion likely to be emotional for some folks (former hostages), Who? What? then respond with various ‘personalities’ like that of “cranky old vietnam vet”, and “mid 30s jaded spfc’s mustached defense expert fantasy you”, Wait… Do those words even make a sentence? etc. If on the other hand it’s supposed to be a logical weapons perspective it fails.

Ignoring 95% of the response, seizing on debatable semantics here or there, Nope. I’m using all of your idiocy this time, and it is really starting to hurt my head- and then without basis assume the responders positions on other guns or general background, or maybe jump between decades and applications to confuse the central issue. –Said the guy playing what’s the best gun for a hostage shot in the 1980s during a bad episode of Miami Vice –

No matter how long winded or informative on other topics, your replies are never to the original point. HK, the legacy of Mauser, –Does Furry know that not all Germans work for the same company? It’s not like you fly in, they hand you a beer-strudel, some lederhosen, and sausage-snitzel and then you go to either Mercedes, HK, or the place that makes those big alpine horns- has more respect from the world’s elite operating community (yes, you are frustrated at not being a part of it, we get that), Really? Do my shattered dreams shine through that hard? than any other firearms manufacturer.  

Let me address that last bit, the fallacy that one gun company enjoys this super dooper rep with the cool-guy tactical community. Bull shit. Their gun nuts are as opinionated as everybody else’s gun nuts. Don’t believe me? Go to SHOT show sometime.

Maybe not you, or your friend jimmy-Bob, but on average, they will improve an army (only goal) as a system and as individual weapons. If only the Germans would have had German made weapons, because then they would’ve totally won… Oh wait…

(side note, the Wehrmacht just had a rifle test and the HK lost and it looks like they’re picking up the Sig SAPR for a DMR. Quantum physics must not have been part of that test)  

This is by application and decade – comparing today’s Daniel Defense carbine to a 1950s HK .223 prototype will only leave you slightly impressed by the HK. Instead let’s put a 416C next to any choice you have of DI in the same dimensions and who wins? The Daniel Defense? The LWRC? The LMT? The SCAR? The Remington ACR? You don’t, since you aren’t able to get a 416C, And I will cry myself to sleep at night knowing I wasn’t able to buy a $4,000 gun that might-marginally-maybe be a teensy bit better than something else that I could buy for half- but the best troops in the world are fielding it as you read this. Fielding, and bought a handful to screw around with are not synonymous.

The Marines did buy the IAR, which is a beefy little carbine.    

My reply was subgun vs subgun, not subgun vs carbine (typical of your response style). Who was it with the whole hostage shot thing with a 10mm MP5 earlier?

 Again, you are at the family reuinion, a jerwad ex rolls in with a 12 gauge shouting, surrounded by nieces and nephews (since you aren’t obviously a family man), Huh? and you can reach for one weapon off the rack – How about I just shoot him in the face with the $2,000 STI on my hip? the MP5 is still the best choice unless you hate this family or planned this as a sniper event. Why?

Special ammo like cor-bon in .223 may not be handy (to cut short 5 paragraphs of your reply from describing ammo variables or something). I’ve got 280 rounds of Hornady TAP loaded in magazines in the pouches on my vest, sitting in the closest next to one of my ARs. But for this test, it is more likely that I’ll have access to a discontinued, oddball, 10mm subgun?

I won’t continue since arguing with the slow kid is proof that I’m a little slow. No argument there.

But since you are a machine gun renter, –Retired- and the best tool for that is an Uzi or a PPsh, -Like I said in the original post, we also had MP-5s, and made lots of money renting them to fanbois – I will agree that for your application, your tools are perfect for the job.

The dead giveaway that I have no trigger time is also laughable, since you likely handed me one to dump rounds through. If not at a school, then likely in KY, where we’ve been going with my uncle (who owns a couple Stens) to Knob Creek Machine Gun festival for 15 years, twice a year, spending three days each time on the triggers of everything, EVERYTHING, including 40,000 plus rounds on the GE minigun –  

Let me get this straight. You’re claiming to have shot $20,000 dollars worth of ammo (not including the astronomical rental fee for a minigun)?  Dayum. I didn’t know that whole sticky panda suit thing paid that well.  

and, the guys that own these guns and the former para’s that help them, say the same thing. Thanks for the buckets of money, idiot?

In order to say these are inferior weapons systems, or that HK policy is to punish the private citizen, ignores 95 % of truth, again. You can live on in a land of 5% reality, where you wear a patch and throw grenades at problems, where the “sheeple” sleep and mall ninjas pester your greatness, but 100% of the truth is….the fantasy world of an author on his blog, whose points are supported only by imaginary friends, will seldom have much to do with actual facts or reality. And as the blood pressure rises and you flail about responses, Whew, yeah, I’ve sure had to flail.

i’m off to the real world, never to return. And we’ll see how long that lasts…

So keep it brief. Said the guy that posted over 4,000 words to an archived blog post.


Aaand he came back. Again. Mike Williamson bashed him over the head about how he knew ^$#@-all about how bullets actually work.

Heheh. Overpenetration. That is the answer we were looking for. If you are launching .223 of any type at your family than we are right to question your loyalty to them (not an insult…observation).  FUN with physics time! Did you know that a heavily constructed, slow moving pistol bullet will tend to hold together rather than fragment (which is what it was designed to do to maximize penetration in order to hit vital organs), whereas a rifle bullet is moving much faster, and a lightly constructed one is designed to tumble and fragment?

But Furry knows more about what bullets do that any stupid old SWAT team!

Another answer you are getting wrong is the trend in purchasing by top level operators, since they are definitely buying more HK products then ever before. As evidenced by all those lucrative contracts! Like the IAR… and the… Well… shoot.

Grenade launcher sales alone would discredit your claim (or even just the HK GMG), but several strangely public purchase decisions have also proved that the 416 is storming. Groan. You ignorant slut. Strangely public? Big procurements are always public. I’m guessing you don’t know anything about government contracting either, though you’ll tell me I’m wrong, because I’ve ONLY been a finance manager for a government contractor.

And for those reading this before buying, keep in mind resale value and reputation. All the other mall ninjas will laugh at you !

Innovation like the dual-recoil spring from the 1993 USP, just showed up in the newest Glock.  Didn’t the Bren 10 and the 4506 have dual recoil springs? Like dual-optics You mean that on top of each other thing that HK did a very unpopular job with that Trijicon then did better, but 3gunners were doing years before?, tactical slings, I’ll give them the nifty little clip, but I’ve see pics of rigged single points from WW2- QD scopes (that hold zero), The claw mount doesn’t hold zero for crap, and there were QD scopes dating back to the 20s.

and hundreds of other things this company introduced in it’s history (and folks like you initially made fun of), there are few as influential –  Browning? Colt? Mauser? Stoner? Kalashnikov? Garand? Saive?

That’s the results of a 150 year old R&D and metallurgical tradition, and of not supporting the lawyers of the world (why we suck). Germany is a lawless place. Kind of like Mad Max, with better guns, and good looking, but stern women.

As far as Knob Creek, it’s not the limit of my “operational experience”, He’s so operatery he can barely stand it but a good place to shoot every machine gun made, multiple times with variable ammo and barrel lengths etc. And to spend $20K on somebody’s mini-gun!

Also for weekend warriors to come watch it happen. Since everything you write proves you are such a warrior, Why do these guys always insinuate that anyone who disagrees with them wants to be in the military? I got rejected for medical reasons in ’93 and have pretty much lived a happy and fulfilling life making lots of money off working for the military ever since – figured we saw you there, hoping to mow down all the targets on the lower range with one spray of your PPsh (but remember those misses in real life mean you are dead). Sigh. He’s lecturing a 3gunner on speed and accuracy?

That’s all. Work’s over, panda suit is very sticky- going home now, but later I guess I will check in to see how you huff and puff. In that way you are an entertaining writer.

Up until now it had been Mike Williamson and some other posters debating this twit. This is where I had to get involved, because I really didn’t know what he was talking about.

Correia45 said:

Furrys, are you talking to me (the original author) still? Because this blog post is over 3 years old… Most of us have moved on with our lives, so I’m a little confused if you’re talking to me or not. (though I did have to comment last week for an idiot to explain the concept of what the 1st Amendment actually says) If you are talking to me about being an entertaining writer, why yes, my last novel just made the New York Times bestseller list, so apparently quite a few people seem to think so.

And overpenetration? Really? Uhm… you may want to go see what your local SWAT team is using. (Hint, really good odds it is some sort of 5.56 shooting something like Hornady TAP, specifically because of overpenetration issues)

Now let me clarify for all four of the non-gunny readers of the Monster Hunter Nation. Almost every SWAT team in the US has switched from 9mm submachine guns to 5.56 carbines. This is for a few specific reasons. 5.56 is far and away more destructive against a human being than a pistol round (and destructive equals shutting the bad guy down faster) and as an added bonus, when used with proper ammo (like the above mentioned Hornady TAP) it tends to fragment quickly, which means that if you miss, odds are that it won’t go through as many walls.

However, anything strong enough to poke a hole in a human body deep enough to hit vital organs will penetrate your average interior wall. No problem.

He responded.

“Alright, ‘you two’ – for an “entertaining writer”, those were boring replies.”

Let’s see… I write books for a living. I am paid lots of money to write books. I’ve got 9 professional sales to a major publishing house, two bestsellers, a collaboration in the works with one of the top selling sci-fi writers of all time and I live in a giant house in the mountains under a ski-resort with my large gun collection paid for by my writing. So basically, your opinion of my blog scribbling really isn’t going to hurt my feelings any.

Oh, and the other guy he’s been arguing with is Mike Z. Williamson, who is also a very successful, award winning, popular sci-fi novelist. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t give a crap either.

A man that writes books this awesome really doesn't give a crap about your opinion

Overpenetration is hitting the family behind the bad guy, wall or no wall. If you want to know what “acceptable losses” means, ask those same TAP using SWAT guys.

I tried to diagram that sentence, but I really don’t know what you’re trying to say. It was at this point that I went back and read all his previous crap.

As far as continuing a moronic blog column for three years, that’s your doing.

Internet. Meet Furrys. Furrys. Meet internet. I don’t “continue” a blog post. I post them, and then they stay there… on the internet. It isn’t my fault people keep reading it 3 years later.

I’m only here since it’s funny to see you dodging the bulk of of the facts and hiding it with insults these past couple months.

Which is a highly ironic statement, since the last time I responded to the actual topic of this blog post was OCTOBER 28th 2009. A year ago. Which is like ten eons in internet time.

The only other response since then was to somebody looking for a web store, and then this exchange from last week, which further proves my point:

Special Guest Idiot Fart knocker said

you comment-deleting terd burglar. The author deletes comments on this post at his discretion, because you suck, and he hates you.

Seriously, grow a pair and let the 1st amendment ring, you fucking pansy.

Now obviously I had to respond to that, because I have a personal vendetta against stupid on the internet. (stupid burned my village when I was very young) So here was my response.

correia45 said

First off, the only comments I ever delete are the spambots and the idiots that can’t string together a coherent sentence. Luckily, you make the cut. (barely)

Secondly, comments from new posters don’t appear until I post them. I’m sorry I didn’t approve your brain-damaged comment on a three-year-old blog post sooner, but I was on a leg of a my national book tour for my New York Times bestselling novel. This may shock you, but some of us have a life outside of working the night shift at Arbys.

Third, you have no 1st Amendment right to post on somebody else’s blog, you ignorant slut. I’d take the time to explain how the Constitution and Bill of Rights are about the limitations on governmental authority, but you’d just go back to huffing paint and forget anyway.


That last bit never ceases to amaze me either. I remember back when I was a moderator on THR. Most imbeciles have zero concept of what the Constitution or the Bill of Rights actually say. Then Furry came back AGAIN.

It’s interesting to me how you don’t have to address the shortcomings of your arguments by spending your response time speculating on the stupidity of each poster that disagrees with your lame assertion.

Wow. You got me there. I’m such a big mean jerk-face on my own blog. But Furry wanted a real response, hence this blog post. You can’t really accuse me of cherry picking now, can you ass wipe? 😀

Thanks indeed for the laughs!

No Furry. Thank you. Without guys like you and Nickwolf and the other idiots that feel the need to troll my blog, I’d be stuck having to fisk the news and political speeches… And that gets boring after awhile. You guys are like the soft white underbelly of the internet. Like the limping gazelle too retarded to keep up with the pack, and I, as a blogger, wait, perched like a falcon, ready to strike.

I need a new hobby.

Mp5s shine because, since the 70′s the pro’s load with BAT (Blitz Action Trauma) type rounds that are teflon coated yet commit 100% of energy to target.

You know, I took a 12 hour wound ballistics class once and I must have missed that part where pistols were energy weapons. (take that Fallout!).  All those autopsy photos, and I came away under the mistaken impression that bullets killed people by poking holes in them.

Which brings us back to a weapons SYSTEM optimized for the application. Is this the magic bullet you meant? For which application? Oh wait. Facts. Sorry to bring those up since they aren’t welcome.

I’m not sure what he’s talking about. I think that it is that a 9mm MP5 is the choice of “real operators” only when loaded with an obscure cartridge that you can’t actually purchase.

For the record, the GECO BAT is an odd round from the 1980s. They were like 1,400 fps for an 80 something grain bullet. They were a fad, and then they went away as better modern hollow points replaced them. I don’t even know if you can find BAT anymore.

When my stepmom killed her abusive ex-husband one night in the late 1980s in albuquerque, she used a VP70Z loaded with BAT bullets. He beat his way through a patio window with a ballping hammer (reliable weapon you can appreciate) and hit her several times before she got the gun in her hand.

I don’t know what a ballping hammer is, and I missed that episode of Trailer Park Adventures.

Then all 18 shots rang out, cutting him mostly in half but without “overpenetrating”.

Apparently, since she had to shoot him 18 times.

That gun, with the first polymer frame in the business, was laughed at by many (likely you).

I think it got laughed at because it had one of the most horrendous trigger pulls ever put onto a gun that wasn’t shooting little plastic disks. But don’t you worry, in 1985 I was far more interested in watching the A-Team than making fun of the VP70, because I was 10.

But experience has taught me that you, like so so many before you (especially those working that case), will eventually realize you have been pissing in the wind all along.

I’m assuming the people working the case were probably thinking that if she shot the guy with bullets that penetrated more she wouldn’t have had to cut him in half before he quit hitting her with a hammer.

I buy American as a rule, and have boycotted China for 13 years, (hate to burst your bubble, but if you’re typing this on a computer, you’re not boycotting China) but if the alloy involved has lives depending on it, the Germans get my dime. Because German metal is more better… Because of SCIENCE!!!

Say what you will, but facts have momentum – your opinions won’t be slowing the big train down (three years of trying sure proves it). Yes. I’ve been trying VERY hard, what with having posted a rant written over my lunch break three years ago.

Wow. Furry takes idiot trolling to a new and interesting place. Think about this. I’m a professional writer. I write about as fast as I can think I fisked this post while watching the season finale of Top Gear. I’m betting Furry doesn’t write nearly that fast, but he’s takent he time to write a novella sized… something. That’s trollish dedicaiton.

But just when I thought it couldn’t get any weirder, he posted AGAIN while I was writing this response.

Hey its what I know but it ain’t BS – She got manslaughter 1 because the police considered it an “offensive weapon” system rather than a “defensive” one. Even the Albuquerque DA endorses HK as a quality sidearm. It was struck down because of, of course, the 2nd amendment makes no distinctions.

I’ll just let that stand on its own without comment, because there is so very much bullshit there that I can’t even begin to decipher it.

But you should have at least said, “bet the first shot missed cause a that heavy trigger pull” (which is only the first round and in case you’ve been hit with a hammer, you don’t need to find the safety…just start squeezin), That’s what she said! BURN.  (well, he started being immature first!)

that would have meant you know something, or appreciate that as a machine pistol in its own holster/stock and that at 2300 rpm rof doesnt leave its target- 6 3 round bursts – only competitor was the MP5K which killed it. So your mother cut your father in half with a machine pistol?

Dude, do you drive a tactical golf cart to work?

The briefcase for the MP5K? Which you couldn’t aim? The squeeze cockers that are still the fastest cocking firing semi handguns ever made… So important when speed counts that they dominate competition speed shooting… Oh… never mind. (and I actually like the P7, it’s classy, but that’s just an idiotic statement) Pulse Laser 100 on my MP5, with surefire upgraded 190 lumens led and a can is a nice night light even these days + children can use it… What? just rambling Naw. Really? here still amazed that you could be anything but appreciative of the results, which help make Nato NATO? and the US the big dog – and you a sucker head

So there you have it folks. The US of A is awesome because of HK and I’m a big mean sucker head.  Good luck, and god speed, Furry. May your mall always be safe and your bear costume tactical…

Election 2010 - The Bloodlettening
Next book signing, Eagle Mountain November 20th

99 thoughts on “More fun with trolls, Furry the Teutonic panda bear”

  1. That guy seriously needs to go back to huffing glue.

    The only reason that I carry an H&K is because work bought it for me.

  2. Now that was priceless!

    It took me a full minute to stop laughing long enough to explain to my wife what I was laughing about.

  3. It was mean of me not to inform him that Geodyk and I are retired military, wasn’t it? And that some of the stuff I did was OPFOR, primary marksmanship instruction and armorer. And that Geodyk was infantry, and now (IIRC) a materials scientist.

    The penetration thing, though, and his mother…it’s almost too Freudian.

    But not as entertaining as the prior clown insisting that HundK was so superior its metal was rated on the Rockwell A scale, not the mere C scale!!!

    1. Mr. Williamson, I had no idea you spent time in CATM.

      Enjoyed the Freehold books very much. I wish we could see the return of blades to our military culture.

      Bravo again, this is as good as the Gecko45 saga.

      1. Gunkid.
        And now we present…
        Furry the Tutonic Panda Bear!

        “M-4’s make me a sad panda…”

    2. Now, Mike, I didn’t retire from the Army — I quit after 8 years, for a variety of (mostly stupid) reasons. (Friendly hint to avoid one of the big ones, dear Furries. . . don’t quit something you love because your fuzzy Bunny Honey decides that even though she thought it was exciting when she met you, it’s boring to stay at home while you go do it.)

      Yeah, I work topside and combat systems integration issues these days, focusing on keeping the ship from blowing itself up, making sure Bad Guys(tm) don’t get close enough to blow things up, and trying to ensure that when blowups happen, they happen “gracefully” (as in “graceful degradation of combat capability” vs. “It all blowed the F&$^ up, man!”) , and keeping things so real enlisted types can actually, you know, fix stuff that breaks.

      I’m an engineer, not a scientist. It’s my job to point out that Sailor Snuffy is the guy who’s gonna have to deal with this stuff at 0400 in the rain, not the well-rested MIT postgrad fiddling with it in a hanger.

      This means the radar guys and the (literal) rocket scientists come to me to ask “gun” questions. . . but the smallest I generally deal with at work these days start at 7.62mm and go up. (I work with some absolutely BRILLIANT people, but dear God, it can be like an Aspie support group crossed with a Star Trek convention sometimes. . . the “scientist” stereotypes don’t all write themselves. )

      Mike’s actually got “cooler” military experience than I do (Hell, he stayed in longer and did multiple MOS’s and IIRC, uniforms), but I did some fun stuff too, including wearing a funny brown hat while teaching young privates (and a few foreign nationals) the US Army Tao of Break Things and Hurt People. A couple of times, I got orders to “go shoot this until it breaks”. I’ve held (either permanently, or formally “acting”) every single 11-series job in a light rifle platoon from 11B1O Rifleman (“Lifts heavy things and drools”) to platoon sergeant (“drinks coffee and drools on live Claymores”) and platoon leader (“stabs self with spoon and drools”).

      On one memorable occaision I proved that a light infantry brigade, four M2HB’s, sixteen barrels, a truckload of ammo, and a training schedule that blocks out a whole day of sunshine (in August) for “BDE .50 Fam Fire” can melt down an old M113 hull with nothing but 5-1 ball-tracer — if you set all guns to fire on the only “good” target at around 500m. (If I had just 1% of the fired brass from that day, that alone would make it cost effective for me to get a .50BMG rifle and loading dies. )

      Watched LRSD light a national forest on fire once. (Well, they were the only guys over where the fire started. And it only got into the national forest later that night, it’s not like they were sacrificing Bambi in a pseudo-Druidic ritual.) Ended up quietly pointing out to my Lieutenant that, Ranger tab or no, he was not personally fireproof, and the rest of the platoon was going to leave BEFORE the barbeque started. (Mmmm. . . Long Pig. . . nom, nom, nom. . . )

      Good Times. Not Sooper Seekret Skwirl times at the Stockade or Smoke Bomb Hill at Bragg, but good times nonetheless.

      1. God bless engineers like you, for keeping stuff workable for those of us still in.

        The fewer times us poor slobs on the airfield, behind the artillery, in the tank and the mud or on the ships have to look at our systems and ask, “why the fuck did they put that there, wire it like that, make this important piece out of plastic?” or all those other fun questions like that, the better. 😀

      2. Geodkyt, that forest fire incident sounds familiar to a field exercise I was on. Tracer rounds work both ways and start fires too.

  4. larry, i couldnt get through this guy’s idiocy… every gun has its advantages and disadvantages. i personaly hate the AK series of assault rifles, the rate of flex the enitre weapon experiances during firing is frightens me, and is a testiment to its engineering that the whole weapon doesnt explode. ive seen tests where experiance marksmen fired at man sized targes from 50 yards and barly grazed the siloutte. i cannot begin to tell you how much hate i have for this gun.
    but i give it credit where credit is due. it was made to be a mass produced point and shoot weapon. so a russian soldier could take a crate of them to a village, “take gun, point at captialist pig, pull trigger” it does that very well. personally i preferthe M16 series of weapons despite their flaws.

    while i admit i dont have much trigger time on the AK, i do have quite a bit on numerious AR’s, even a few M16A2 that had a civilan trigger group put in. the M16s i fired, when i worked as aprison gaurd, was probably a surpluss Army or Marine weapons that my state (Texas) had bought, probably had thousands of rounds through them before my State got its hads on the weaposn, and who knows how many rounds got sent through them before i got my hands on them, and with the hundreds for rounds that got ran through them during qulifications, not a single one jammed (though one did have a clip fall out of the magizine well, but that could have been the moron shooting at the time)

    i kinda lost my train of thought there, but i belive my point was, there’s not really a perfect fire arm they all have their pro’s and cons, though the Browing .50 cal proabably would come close if they could make it man portable. I’m a glock fan, but as soon as i can find an affordable 1911 i like, i’ll probably buy that.
    The MP5 was good for its mission at the time, there werent too many other subguns in production at the time if memory serves, MP and UZI were probably the most prevalint i think… … … but almost as soon as it saw serivce civilan side, the bad guys went and started using body army rendering the MP5 mission obsloete … … …like the Thompson, most fucking awesome gun of its time, but obsolete now. there’s a lot of dead nazi bastards and Japanese soldiers because of that gun. but not too many soliders would carry one now days because of its weight… shit i lost my point again, i’ll leave now larry.

    1. “ive seen tests where experiance marksmen fired at man sized targes from 50 yards and barly grazed the siloutte. i cannot begin to tell you how much hate i have for this gun.”

      Damn. Either the sights were way off or there was something very, very wrong with the gun. Nothing eI’ve ever heard of (not even a Norinco, and that’s saying something!) is that inaccurate!

      Just saying that if this is one of the reasons you base your dislike of the AK series, your opinions may be unduly influenced by the performance of the absolutely worst pieces of junk that someone has shaped like an AK. A decent AK is capable of much better performance.

      1. as i said, i dont have much trigger time on the AK, but i do have quite a bit on the M16/AR15 series (speaking of, does anyone else get annoyed when the news show’s an AK or AR and immedietly starts calling it a machine gun? i mean come on, the weapon could easily have a civilian trigger group, i’m talking about stories i’ve seen both on TV and the internet where they’ll show a gun store and start in on it selling machine guns… bullshit, if they’re selling them, chances are they’re AR15’s not M16’s…) but the few AK’s i have shot, i was not impressed with. as i said, every gun has its pro’s and cons, it’s just that the cons of the AK far outweigh it’s pro’s for my taste…

        on a side note, i have a buddy who i got into MHI, he wants to write an MHI/Ghostbusters fan fic… Milo ruins his underware when he sees the Proton Packs. … … …

      2. It’s been established that the AK’s legendary inaccuracy is due to two factors:

        1. Higher tolerances in ammo manufacturing.

        2. Crappy 19th Century style sights, frequently not even mechanically zeroed to the rifle, much less actually zeroed to the shooter. (Note – many “high quality” military rifles of years past have been considered decent shooters, even if the sights were designed not to be individually zeroed to the shooter but only mechanically zeroed at teh factory.)

        When fed with US QA ammo, milspec Russian AKs are mechanically just as accurate as the accepatnce standards for NATO rifles, including the US standard for the M16A2 and M4. (Caveat — almost ALL milspec M4s and M16A2’s beat the acceptance standard by a large margin — the point is that AKs can meet the minimum accuracy standard.)

        The 19th Century style sights are a problem primarily becuase its a lot harder to shoot as well with them, especially under stress, as good ghost ring sight with a nice long sight-plane. Unfortunately, the AK design does not lend itself to adapting to a rear sight on the back of the receiver as well as something where the back top of the receiver group is more solid. (It’s possible — just harder — to get a solidly repeatable rear sight on that removeable sheet metal housing. But it CAN be done — ask Israel and Finland.)

        Of course, in these days where optics are rapidly becoming SOP on rifles for line infantry, the standard AK side assecory bracket could be used to mount a low powered optic, leaving the AK iron sights as a BUIS (for which they are not only adequate, but would be BETTER than some “NATO” BUIS’s in use — especially those that are part of the actual optic). I would want a raised stock line to bring the optical sight into the natural aiming plane with a solid cheek weld, but that’s just furniture. (Likewise, you could design a stock trunion that acted as the base for a rear sight of the appropriate height to match the front post. That would make you one rivet and a new buttstock away from putting world class infantry iron sights on the AK family.)

  5. There, but for the grace of God, go I.

    I’m glad that I only love and defend my P7M8 with all the rabidity (but none of the incoherence) of a fanboy. And I’m actually glad I don’t like or own any other HK firearms.

    I may have secretly convinced myself that my P7M8 isn’t actually a HK firearm.

    I really enjoyed your original HK rant, and never knew that it was you who wrote it. Can’t remember where I first saw it, either.

  6. I love my USP, but anybody who has ever had to deal with the corporation knows that they are horrible. Their salespeople are stuck up jerks, and $60 for a frakkin’ pistol mag? Geez…..

    1. I love my USP as well, and fortunately I’ve never had to deal with H&K customer service.

      Mag prices are pretty ridiculous, but I can get used mags in good shape for $30. Now if only they’d let Mec-Gar start making them.

    2. I am another one of those guys who loves his USP.
      And I have had the pleasure of never calling into Customer Service.
      But I also love my Springfield 1911 and I am starting to like my Glock.

      I am no operator, but what the gun does in my hand means more to me than logo on it.

      But these rants are just nuts.

    3. Heh. And someone “donated” a pair of loaded P7 magazines to the Bush God in front of my house early last week.

      Seriously — a pair of loaded HK P7 mags in an archaic leather flap carrier, just sitting out there since the last time it rained, but not much longer. I went ahead and unloaded the mags so everything could dry out, and I may be a sport and chuck the mags into a bath of diesel to stabilize until I get around to rust removal (surface heavy rust from sitting in a wet leather pouch for 48 hours) for a few days if no one comes by to claim them soon.

      I figure if their owner doesn’t come around by springtime, I’ll ask around and find out if any of my buddies still has a P7, and if not, GunBroker.

      Funny thing, each mag had one FMJ round as the bottom on in the magazine, with seven little JHP Teutonic Death Pills (Federal JHP, probably their premium line, since the cases look nickle).

      Can’t afford to buy a full box of ammo after making the monthly payments on his pistol?

      Too lazy to make sure he keeps buying more of the same (presumeably) carry ammo?

      Too dumb to know much beyond barking, “Gimme some 9, man!” at the fun shop clerk? (Although in fairness, people like that rarely buy HKs, and at least all of this stuff was 9x19mm. . . when I was a gun pimp, I once unloaded an incoming Tokegypt in a paper bag that had three different species of 9mm in it — 9×17, 9×18, and 9×19. Guess he wanted to cover as many possibilities as possible. {snerk} )

      Figures that if he gets to the last round, he “wants the extra penetration, man — they might be wearing armor!”? (And people like THIS are all too common among HK fans, but most of that type of fanboi can’t afford HKs anyway. . . )

      I’ve seen all four explanations for mixed ammo loads in magazines. Now, I’ve seen guys who loaded 1 HP in the chamber, and backed it up with FMJ in the magazine for feed reliability. . . 20 years ago, with guys carrying WWII vintage service pistols as carry weapons. And I’ve done mixed ball-tracer loads. . . in the military, for specific purposes (like night fire ranges).

    4. I’m not about to part with my USP, but I wouldn’t turn down a $20 Hi Point either. Tools are tools. For the right price, I’ll buy most anything.
      Of course, I’m still waiting for customer service to return my call. I’ve got a note that said I called about the warranty, but I can’t even remember why at this point.

      As for magazines:
      I stocked up on magazines when one of the internet (Cal’s Armory IIRC) sites had them for 4.95 a pop in bulk.

      I’ve also been averaging about $30 for a Gunbroker purchased magazine + Wolff Spring replacement combo. Unless you’re going to use the magazine a few thousand times by its lonesome, there’s nothing wrong with a used USP mag.

  7. Of course, one cannot expect logic, reason, or a coherent argument from a man who would consider “An American Tale” to be pR0n.

  8. “But don’t you worry, in 1985 I was far more interested in watching the A-Team than making fun of the VP70, because I was 10.”
    damn kids…

  9. I am LOLing and LOLing.

    If this kid will mail me his copy of Project 64: The MP5 Submachine Gun Story (and you _know_ he has one), I’ll see if I can get Frank to autograph it for him.

    Provided the pages aren’t all stuck together.

  10. “This may shock you, but some of us have a life outside of working the night shift at Arbys.”

    I resent that haha. But I’m off to class (late thanks to you Mr.Furry). And since I know that Tom Clancy was the REAL focus of the whole novel you three just wrote let me just say that Red Storm Rising was awesome 😛

    1. Like those guys you see at the gun shows with their Grossdeutschland tee shirts?

      “I’m not sayin’ they were right or anythin’, but their tanks sure were cool!”

      1. Funny factoid I just found out. Vince of Sham-Wow and Lap Chop fame is Israeli (dual US/Israeli citizenship).

        Makes all the sick jokes about, “And you know Germans make good stuff!” even more pointed.

  11. Uh… wow.

    Even I, as one of the four non-gun nuts on the MHN, know better than to come up in here pissing in someone’s stale bowl of Cheerios when it’s obvious they’ve moved on to a healthier diet of caviar and goat cheese… sheesh.

  12. Oh…

    Didn’t the Bren 10 and the 4506 have dual recoil springs?

    To get all gun nerdy, the dual captive recoil spring is usually credited to Larry Seecamp, who patented it way back when. Detonics was probably the first commercial offering.

    (Although my old Radom has two recoil springs, too; one’s inside the two-part guide rod…)

      1. Before the Colt Officer’s Model, when Swenson and Seecamp and everybody were chopping surplus Government Models, they had to slow the slide down somehow, so they went out to Los Alamos, borrowed a sooper-secret time machine, and went to 1990’s Oberndorf and stole the idea from H&K.

  13. Great, now I’m going to have visions of brown-shirted, HundK toting, panda bear furries distracting me from my important work as an evil capitalist merchant of death all day.

    But maybe, just maybe we have a potential customer for these damned HK stainless USP closeouts…

  14. Just to clarify – ’cause the furry one won’t, the B.A.T projectile was simply a hollow tube of hard copper with a closed base to keep the gas from blowing through. Was banned because it would penetrate the available armor of the time.
    It was an interesting concept as the base would fall off after firing, leaving just the “tube”(with the sharp front edge) flying down range at a very high velocity. Pictures from ballistic jell showed some serious damage.
    The damn things were expensive as hell as well even back then. The last ones I bought were about $3.00 each and that was in the early ’70’s.
    Back when the kid was still in the house, I kept them in the .357 house gun because they were a serious round that cut through most anything except walls.
    Other better stuff now available and AFAIK they are still on the banned list because of the vest penetration thing.

    1. They’re not banned, to the best of my knowledge, it’s just nobody is importing the gimmicky things anymore. They lost too much market share when mall ninjas all went to Glasers in the ’80s.

      The “vest penetration thing” at the federal level is based solely on the composition of the bullet. ( See 18 USC sec. 921(a)(17).) Solid copper is okie-dokie, as is witnessed by Barnes, Cor-Bon DPX, and Taurus’s “Hex Bullet” etc.

    2. It’s bullets (or bullet cores) made from beryllium copper (a particular alloy) that would qualify a solid copper bullet as “AP” under federal law.

      Beryllium copper is a high-mechanical strength alloy, suitable (think “tool grade” — which is why they make some non-sparking tools for use in explosive atmosphere out of it). It does give more than tool hardened steel, but it tends to resist permanent deformation pretty well. (Ask Mike Z for details — HE’S the metals guy. Bladesmith, all that jazz.)

      Regular copper, by contrast, is tough, but comparitively squishy. Which is why it gets used as bullet jackets and as the crush medium for some pressure tests (that’s the “C” in “CUP” pressure ratings).

      1. And for trivia purposes, most of the beryllium in the US comes from the Brush Wellman plant outside of Delta Utah.

        Go Rabbits! (Delta High, class of ’93)


      2. Regular copper, by contrast, is tough, but comparitively squishy.

        Yes, but it picks up Quantum Strength when traveling down polygonal bores forged of German wunderstahl by Hans und Franz.

      3. Beryllium is also highly toxic. This is, of course, of little concern to Teutonic Ubermensch.

        Lead is pretty toxic too, in fact it’s toxicity seems to be propotionally tied to its velocity

        (Sorry, couldn’t resist)

  15. I’m trying to figure out how he can claim the round is simultaneously armor piercing, won’t “overpenetrate” even if it doesn’t hit the bad guy standing in front of your family, and is 100% effective.

    1. He doesn’t know. He just reads that page in his uncle’s old copy of Handgun Stopping Power by Marshal and Sanow…

      …while holding the book one-handed.

    2. So, you miss the Bad guy(tm) with the 9mm Sooper ‘Splodey Rounds of Teutonic Death, and Mom gets to eat the round full-on, but THAT’S OK, because it wasn’t technically an “overpenetration”?

      What’s the statistic? 66% of all rounds fired in anger (not counting military use) are going to miss the target altogether, so they can be counted as “overpenetrations” that retain 100% of their energy!

      Personally, I’ll use a 5.56 that can dot an “i” at any conceivable defensive range if I can make the hit, and is likely (at these sub-50 meter ranges we’re talking about) to fragment into four or more pieces about 4″ into the meat that head off on almost 90 degree course changes from shot axis. If I didn’t have an actual designed CQB round loaded already (like Larry and Tam favor).

      Under 50 meters, almost anything US-made (except AP ammo, and I wouldn’t trust that foreign 5.56 to fall apart) is less of an overpenetration threat than almost any 9x19mm load, except frangibles (which have serious issues of their own and often don’t hit as hard as 5.56mm).

  16. “correia45 said

    First off, the only comments I ever delete are the spambots and the idiots that can’t string together a coherent sentence. Luckily, you make the cut. (barely)

    Secondly, comments from new posters don’t appear until I post them. I’m sorry I didn’t approve your brain-damaged comment on a three-year-old blog post sooner, but I was on a leg of a my national book tour for my New York Times bestselling novel. This may shock you, but some of us have a life outside of working the night shift at Arbys.

    Third, you have no 1st Amendment right to post on somebody else’s blog, you ignorant slut. I’d take the time to explain how the Constitution and Bill of Rights are about the limitations on governmental authority, but you’d just go back to huffing paint and forget anyway.”
    Larry, I love it. I laughed my ass off. Keep up the good work, and doing the GOOD work that you do.

  17. Gawd, the mention of the GECO Action Safety/BAT rounds takes me back.

    Fun stuff, but holy gods, did it shoot to a different POI than standard ammo. And it did tend to do interesting things to a block of gelatin — but to be honest, that may have been more a function of the fact that it was doing an honest 1400 fps than the funky bullet design.

    If you’re doing a nut to get your paws on the stuff, RUAG Ammotec is making it it these days as the Action 1 SX and Action 3 SX.

    I’d have to ask myself, “Self, if that stuff is the be-all, end-all of defence ammo, why is RUAG still making a couple of modern hollow-point designs, too?”

    Now, if you want to get into esoteric ammo, the Frog THV round was the King of Odd Ammo in the 80’s. Now, that was some fun stuff to play with.


    1. THV was cool looking. Couldn’t shoot it at the gun store’s range I worked, obviously, but we had a box of “odd ammo” left behind by customers on the range or when they brought in Grandad’s old gun for consignment. There were about a dozen or so of those things in there.

      I got my butt chewed out when I discovered that red paint on the tip of a .45ACP round means EXACTLY what it would on a military rifle round. . . (Elsewhere I mentioned what happened when one of my coworkers tossed a cigarette butt in the grass by the range vent exhaust — WHOOSH! goes the unburnt powder and the grass! Here I was sending a tracer round downrange through air that likely had a cloud of those particles floating about, and more trapped in the bullet trap. Can you say “grain elevator explosion”, boys and girls? God must love fools. . . {grin} )

  18. Holy crap, he sounds like some of the people in academia who argue just for the sheer pleasure of arguing. I once read an essay that said Jay Leno’s skit, the Dancing Itos during the OJ trial was perpetuating a stereotype about Japanese men who were trying to conceal their identity during World War 2. The Government had some paranoid propaganda back then that warned that Japanese men could conceal their identity by wearing glasses, medium length hair, and a beard. Yeah I know, it’s racist and wrong.

    The article said that because Leno dressed up guys in long black robes, beards, glasses and two to three inch long, combed hair, that Leno was perpetuating the racist stereotype of the hidden, dangerous Japanese man from world war 2, and basically supporting the U.S. policy of Japanese internment. Really. That’s what the argument was.

    Never mind that Lance Ito himself actually wore glasses, had neat combed hair and a beard, and is himself of Japanese decent, and whose parents were actually held in a U.S. internment camp!

    So Ito is perpetuating a racist stereotype against his own parents and culture? You can imagine the type of response I wrote to this essay. My teacher gave me a good grade, but said I “missed the point” of the essay.


  19. Lord, I only wish I could afford 40K rounds on a mini at knob…Oh wait…I thought I should buy a car or something…

    That was freaking classic, I don’t know if I’ve heard a liberal that was so persistantly asine.

  20. Don’t know about other HK products, but I have always wanted to try the P7 and USP. What I BOUGHT though? A glock! And I’m still glad I did. Likewise, my vote with my money went for a FN-FAL, not a HK product. So I guess Panda Boy will burn me at the stake too, along with rest of us wrong-thinking people. I am so clueless that I never realized HK was so great. People like him give us bears a bad name, lol. Though oh so amusing to read, someone needs to check Panda Boy’s meds.

  21. Why is it that H&K has the highest BFQ (Butthurt Fanboi Quoient)?

    True, the fans of other gun makers tend to come to the defense of their preferred makes when questioned. But nothing like that of the absolute screaming hysteria produced when the Teutonic Superiority of HundK is even slightly questioned.

    This screaming hysteria is pure comedy gold, by the way- as are many of their common arguments

    Argument number one tends to be an appeal to authority: The near mythical Operators. That the Fanboi has never been an operator, or possibly really talked to an operator is readily apparent in their post. What’s more apparent is that their entire knowledge of Spec Ops comes from H&K marketing, video games, and maybe the occasional magazine article.

    The second typical argument tends to involve the myth of superior Teutonic engineering- that the HundK engineers are literal Wizzards making literal Magical Guns of +5 awesomeness. Hence the “Quantum Level Metallurgy” or the magical ability of bullets fired by an H&K gun to not over penetrate. This belief in Teutonic magic is impervious to any real life engineer’s argument.

    Of course the above will typically be devoid of anything like consistent spelling, logic, or reasoned discourse.
    Which makes it even more fun.

  22. You’re correct, Tam, BrylCo was the metal. To the best of my knowledge they were banned for a brief time back then, maybe it was something local; they just suddenly were not available anywhere I looked. Again back in the early ’70’s, no intarweb, so it may have been a local thing. Either way an interesting idea that never went anywhere. And as far as I remember from that time they were not “adopted” for use by any police or military unit.

  23. What is a Dutch load, and why is it called that?

    I’ve heard of Dutch nightingales (frogs), Dutch uncles, Dutch courage (gin), and going Dutch, but not Dutch loads.

    Most of those date back to the time when the Dutch were at war with the British, but this must be much more recent than that.

    1. It’s a term that was applied to loading the magazine with alternating ball and hollowpoint rounds, because the Mall Ninja or “It Happened To Me!” letter-writer in Combat Handguns magazine couldn’t decide whether they’d need “energy dump” or the ability to “punch through auto bodies”.

      I hadn’t heard it referred to as “Dutch loading” since I stopped reading any magazine edited by Jan Libourel fifteen years ago.

      I’d reckon it dates clear back to muzzle loading times and some supposed propensity of the Dutch to favor buck-and-ball.

      1. See, and I always guessed it was because you were “going halvsies” on your ammo decision. (Same motivation, though — the idea being you have alternate “blow great bloody holes” loads and “drill deep bloody holes”, so with your El Perfecto doubletap, you were GUARANTEED you had the “right stuff” on target.)

        It’s sort of like the way I first started carrying 158gr SJHP for .357 Magnum, in case I needed the penetration. After all, I read in some gun rag in high school the FBI issued it for that reason. I was stressed about the idea of not being able to shoot through light cover. . .

        Then I said to myself, “Self, you have this gun for civilian self-defence. You WILL NOT be playing ‘Frank Hamer Goes to the Dance with Bonnie and Clyde’. What do you need the ability to blast holes through mailboxes and vintage car doors? If he ducks behind something, GOOD! He ain’t tryin’ to shoot holes in you anymore! If he runs away, surrenders, stays put until the cops roll up, or gets froggy and you blow his head off when he tries to Butch Cassidy out from behind thatcover — IT’S ALL A WIN. FIDO.”

        So I switched my preferred .357 Magnum loads to 125gr (and sometimes 110gr, for the 3″ guns) JHPs going really fast (me likum Cor-Bon as my preferred rabbit’s foot), and the guns were easier (and more fun) to shoot.

  24. if there’s one thing i’ve learned on the internet, it’s fanboys are going to fan boy… just be glad you arn’t an an anime fan… otaku’s are the worst… … …
    apple fan boys are just as bad … … … i do IT now (yes, i was a prison guard and now i work on computers) i spent an hour telling this apple fan boy that you can’t load a 64 bit Operating System on a 32 bit Processor, but you can put a 32 Bit OS on a 64 Bit processor (i’ll spare you the details, but trust me on that statement, its a mathmatics thing having to do with memory address spacing and some other codeing stuff that’s way above my level) but because Mac OS X Whateverlargecattheynamedthatveri (snowleapord maybe) was about to come out and the disk had the Install Kernel for both 32 and 64 bith he swore he could put 64 bit Apple on his 32bit machine…
    now i hate mac more than i hate AK’s… but i hate Mac because of its business practices, mainly it’s closed archtexture, you do it apple’s way or not at all. i also hate how antitrust suites have limited what microsoft can put into windows as part of its base install, yet one of apple’s big sell points is “oh look at what you can do right out of the box… wanna make and edit movies?” got news asshole, windows has that too, but the GMen told them they had to take it out. so instead you have to DL windows live essentials to get windows movie maker… anywho, i freely awcknowldge apple’s good points. i’m not going to mention them now because i hate apple, but i do credit them. and they lies they sell ppl on, “oh look apple doesnt have viruses” YES THEY DO!!! pre, 2002 or so, apple used a PowerPC propriatary chipset, it was was fairly virus free, after that, apple went to an x86 Intel chipset, and they started getting virus’s… ok… i’m gonna wrap this up before i go off on a deeper tangent than i already have…

    i know this doesnt relate to guns, but it does releate to fan boys…. and they’re rabid… we need to put down the rabid fan boys…

  25. DUDE!!!! pistols are energy weapon!!!!

    i so have to go redo my fallout new Vegas charter and put everything into energy weapons cause they have lots of pistols!!!!

    oh man my Ranger Sequoia is going to be so sweet.

    and here i thought Laser RCW was sweet.

    speaking of which how long does a were wolf live? cause in the future before the booms fall. i’ll love to see earl use that instead of the Thompson

      1. Larry and I covered that on our “How To Kill The Undead” panel at LibertyCon, actually. This is an important area of research, along with “Which holy symbol do I use?”

        There’s consensus that any holy symbol works as long as your faith is sufficient.

        I have a lot of faith in the 1911A1.

      2. And, I also have much faith in the 1911A1. All praise to his holiness John Moses Browning. I need to get another religious symbol. I currently have a 1911 all in black chambered in 45ACP. I need oone in stainless steel with white grips and chambered in 38 Super.

      3. Man, sometimes living in a tropical paradise halfway around the world has it’s disadvantages- missing that panel, for one.

        And isn’t the Browning Automatic Rifle a pretty holy item as well?

  26. As the resident UK Airsofter (don’t laugh, it’s damn near all we have left), I thought I’d point out something:

    “Or an airsoft empire built mostly from clones of your guns.”

    Hate to break it to him, but Ares and JG are making PPsH copies and are selling them like hotcakes.

    Haven’t seen MP5s outside of rentals at the local site.

    Seriously, I like H&K, but even I can’t believe how dumb half of the arguments are from panda boy.

    1. Ya don’t see H und K airsofts anymore because they have been suing manufacturers for copyright violations.

      Silly, yes. But apparently these mutant german ubermen don’t need to cater to fanbois, or Brits stuck in socialist Europe.

      1. Funny that, Umarex just got licensing agreements for a whole crapton of H&K guns. They’ve been advertising their new 416/g36/MP7 lines with “full trademarks”.

        IIRC, the nearby CO19 units use G36s. Definately saw them on the airport security in Bristol and Edinburgh.

      2. Gareth,

        The timing is in no way coincidental.

        If you are a company that is hurting for cash after dumping a crap ton of money into programs like the XM8, and you decide that a way to make some more cash is to let some airgun-and-rimfire company sell licensed toy copies of your stuff to panting fanbois, then you’ve first got to stop everybody from selling the unlicensed copies of your stuff by means of “trade dress” lawsuits.

        I know somebody who was actually approached by HK to be an expert witness here in the US, and we couldn’t figure out why HK had suddenly decided to sue, until the Umarex news broke, then everything made sense.

      3. Did they pick up the G36’s while HK was so intimately involved with the UK?

        I’d have to say that the G36 would be far superior for cop work than either the MP5 or the one other choice likely to be really readily available — some variation on the (Ack!) L85. 5.56mm carbines are good police shoulder weapons — handy, accurate, and plenty powerful enough.

        Of course, when the British Army went looking (through an after open competition) for a 7.62x51mm semiauto designated marksman rifle, they selected as the L129A1 neither the FN SCAR 17 (piston) nor the HK417 (piston), but the LMT LM308MWS, a direct impingement gun with a monolithic railed upper receiver, SOPMOD stock, and a 6×48 ACOG.

        The Royal Marines liked it so much, they submitted a request to have their scale of issue changed from “1 per section” (section = squad to Yanks) to “1 per man”.

        Of course, LMT will happily sell you the LM308MWS (commercial version). . . the only caveat is that the commercial version has black furniture instead of tan, and I believe they are holding off selling rifles with certain UK-specified features until they fill the military orders. (Not because you suck and they hate you — just reserving limited inventory for the fulfillment of an already agreed major contract before using that inventory up on not-yet-agreed inidivudal sales.) As LMT says, they don’t run seperate “military/police” and “commercial” lines.

        You can even talk to the LMT guys, and they will CHEERFULLY let you handle their guns at shows. I’ve never heard of anyone having customer service problems with LMT, but cannot recall the last time I heard omeone complain that they NEEDED LMT service in the first place. . .

  27. I just wanted to congratulate you on the excellent use of “ignorant slut” in your reply. Small things like that are one of the reasons I love your books so much.

      1. Bonus points if you use it exactly as the original, leaving the target to loudly complain that his name isn’t “Jane”.

        Double points if, instead, the target comes back with, “Dan, you pompous ass.” (Targets that can return fire are always worth more points.)

  28. I Love the Great U.S. of A , Larry’s MH books and the asshat’s that Larry schools each and every week!!! The shitheads that scream ‘1st Amendment’ on the ‘internet’ forums and blogs just make me laugh all the time.

  29. Pretty standard fare (except for the Quantum Metallurgy, which I feel needs to be read in the voice of George Takei) right up until the firing underwater bit. Then it got epic.

    “It’s not like you fly in, they hand you a beer-strudel, some lederhosen, and sausage-snitzel and then you go to either Mercedes, HK, or the place that makes those big alpine horns”

    Guess who just got an idea for a travel company!

  30. Ironic, that this post shows up so soon after GunKid is released from the Club Fed…

    Well done Larry, that was great.

  31. I read the whole thing.
    Points, counterpoint, drivel…all of it.

    He’s right. You’re a big, mean sucker head.

    I think that’s Panda for “wise Latino” but you can never be sure…too many Furry dialects.

    Hey, it makes as much sense as the rest of his post(s).

  32. I have not been up on My blog reading, Sorry, But I was rereading My copies of MHI and MHV. So, I got a major question here, is this “furry” dude for real? I learned a LONG time ago, the best weapon to have in your hand is a LOADED and Useful weapon. Name Brands don’t matter. I am done now.

    Ps, Mr Correia can you please sometime in the future add a Gun toting monster killing Medic in one of your stories.

    Bayside EMT

  33. I was already laughing, but when you busted out with ‘do you drive a tactical golf cart at work’ I almost ruined my ‘China boycotting computer’ with a mouthful of Coke Zero.

    BTW, your MHI novels are great! Can’t wait for the next one!

  34. I just spent a little over an hour browsing through all of this and it was mostly awesome. Your commentaries are on target but comical and it’s pretty clear your knowledge of firearms is well rounded and extensive.

    It’s been fun watching you blast nickwolf and furries’ grammar and poorly researched facts but I found a segment that I was somewhat offended by. I did not go through the comments so someone else may have brought up but here goes:

    Was it really necesary to flaunt your career and money and home and huge gun collection? Congratulations on being accomplished. It seems well deserved and earned but I don’t think a person’s station in life matters in an argument over firearms. Perhaps I perceived it wrong and I want to make it clear I’m I no way attacking you. It just struck me as almost pretentious.

    That being said, the site is awesome and I would definitely take one of your classes if I lived in your area.



    1. Chris, this is a really old post, so I don’t recall what the thought process involved with putting that in was. Usually when I bring up how I’m doing is in a reply after somebody tried to score points on me about how I’m not very good at my job, or another time that I wasn’t a “real” bestseller. 🙂

      1. Thanks for taking the time to answer, and quickly at that.

        I can scratch “get a best selling author to acknowledge my existence” off the ole bucket list now.

        I just found your site today but I’ll be back often to see what’s new.

        Thanks again,


  35. I’m sorry for posting on an old thread but I just HAD to share. I was reading an article in the firearm blog about…you guessed it, HK weapons and I found our furry friend spouting the exact same (almost word for word) crap he was on your blog.
    Carry on.

  36. I know I’m late to the party, but I’ve been chortling for the last 15 minutes.

    I used to own an HK-91. I sold it because it wrecked the brass and hit me in the cheek with every shot. I am glad I had it, though. I made a profit when I sold it.

    I have an HK P7M13. Lovely and astonishingly accurate gun. I bought it for the novelty/collector value. Beautifully made. And, not overly practical, what with the grip being the size of a shovel blade. And, it makes a huge clunk when you grasp or release the grip.

    And, yeah, the USP is the size of the space shuttle.

    That said, I don’t dislike HK. I’ll take each weapon on its own merits. Since I’m emphatically NOT an operator. I’ll just buy and shoot what I feel is effective and what makes me happy.

    The trolls in this world just can’t be happy if we’re not in lockstep with them.

    BTW, I’ve shot full auto several times, but I didn’t enjoy it. Even before the ammo crunch, I just felt that sucking sound in my wallet and went back to my more mundane toys. I’m no expert, but I just don’t see what I would ever have do with an M16 or subgun that I couldn’t do as well with semi-auto. Obviously, a minigun or ma deuce would be another story, but that’s outside my budget. Way outside my budget.

    Anyway, just keep on writing!

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