Monster Hunter Nation

Writers should be Cultural Appropriating all the Awesome Stuff

So “Cultural Appropriation” for writers has been in the news again lately.

First there was this dim bulb having a freak out because the keynote speaker at a writing conference dared talk about how silly the concept of Cultural Appropriation is. This is an incredibly boring and long winded freak out. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/10/as-lionel-shriver-made-light-of-identity-i-had-no-choice-but-to-walk-out-on-her

(the best part is how she got up and walked away from this dangerous offensive badthink talk AND ALL EYES WERE UPON HER JUDGING HER BY THEIR CULTURAL NORMS! When in reality most folks probably just thought she needed to use the toilet or something)

And here is the actual keynote speech which caused all that outrage: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/13/lionel-shrivers-full-speech-i-hope-the-concept-of-cultural-appropriation-is-a-passing-fad

You should read this. She makes some excellent points. This is coming from the Literati side of the writing world, but it is just as bad over in the exploding space ships and magic elves section of the book store.

I’ve talked about Cultural Appropriation before, and why it is one of the most appallingly stupid ideas every foisted on the gullible in general, and even worse when used as a bludgeon against fiction authors.

First off, what is “Cultural Appropriation”?  From the linked talk:

The author of Who Owns Culture? Appropriation and Authenticity in American Law, Susan Scafidi, a law professor at Fordham University who for the record is white, defines cultural appropriation as “taking intellectual property, traditional knowledge, cultural expressions, or artifacts from someone else’s culture without permission. This can include unauthorised use of another culture’s dance, dress, music, language, folklore, cuisine, traditional medicine, religious symbols, etc.”

The part that got left out of that definition is that engaging in Cultural Appropriation is a grievous mortal sin that self-righteous busy bodies can then use to shame anyone they don’t like.

Look at that definition. Basically anything you use that comes from another culture is stealing. That is so patently absurd right out the gate that it is laughable. Anybody who has two working brain cells to rub together, who hasn’t been fully indoctrinated in the cult of social justice immediately realizes that sounds like utter bullshit.

If you know anything about the history of the world, you would know that it has been one long session of borrowing and stealing ideas from other people, going back to the dawn of civilization. Man, that cuneiform thing is pretty sweet. I’m going to steal writing. NOT OKAY! CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!

Everything was invented by somebody, and if it was awesome, it got used by somebody else. At some point in time thousands of years ago some sharp dude got sick of girding up his loins and invented pants. We’re all stealing from that guy. Damn you racists and your slacks.

This is especially silly when white guilt liberals try to enforce it on Americans, the ultimate crossroads of the world, melting pot country where hundreds of cultures have been smooshed together for a couple hundred years, using each other’s cool stuff and making it better.

This weekend I painted miniatures for a war game from Spain, played a video game from Belarus, listened to rap music from a white guy from Detroit, watched a cop show from Britain, had Thai food for lunch, and snacked on tikki masala potato chips, while one daughter streamed K dramas, another read manga, and my sons played with Legos invented in Denmark.

A life without Cultural Appropriation would be so incredibly boring.

And most of you missed the really insidious part of that that academic, all-consuming definition. Without Permission… Think about that. So how does that work exactly? Who do you ask? Sure, these new Lays Tikki Masala chips are delicious, but are they problematic? Who is the head Indian I’m supposed to get permission from? Did you guys like appoint somebody, or is it an elected position, or what? Or should I just assume that Lays talked to that guy already for me? Or can any regular person from India be offended on behalf of a billon people?

This is all very confusing.

But hang on… India owes me. That’s right. Because vindaloo is a popular Indian dish, but wait! It was actually Culturally Appropriated from the Portuguese hundreds of years ago. I’m Portuguese! I didn’t give them permission to steal the food of my people!

So we will call it even on these chips.

And don’t get me started on Thai food, because the Portuguese introduced the chili pepper to Thailand. YOU ARE WELCOME, WORLD!

Some angry SJW recently assaulted a white kid with dreadlocks for Cultural Appropriation. Sure, he looks like a hippy doofus, but dozens of cultures, including a bunch from Europe have worn dreads. There are only so many ways you can grow hair. So half the time the when the Cultural Appropriation police freak out about something, they’re just being ignorant anyway.

SJWs got up in arms about white people wearing kimonos. That’s racist! But apparently they didn’t check to see if the Chief Japanese Guy had given permission first, because all of the Japanese kimono makers were like “Whoa, hold on there! These are just clothes. We like selling them to people. That’s how we live.” They tried the same thing with tacos, because eating tacos was racist. Which came as shock to all the Mexicans who sell tacos for a living (because tacos are proof God loves us and wants us to be happy) but shut up, actual people with skin in the game, SJWs are speaking for you now!

I think those misunderstandings illustrate the importance of a culture appointing one particular person for us to ask permission from, because otherwise you could have a culture with millions of people in it, and anything is bound to offend somebody… Tread carefully, or I’ll demand vindaloo back.

But how does this relate to writing fiction?

Basically there are a group self-appointed thought police who are just looking for a reason to bitch at authors, and scaring people into falling in line makes them feel important. They use Cultural Appropriation like a hammer to bash authors. In reality these people are basically useless, and can be ignored (or better, mocked) but many authors don’t realize that or they don’t like confrontation. So they self-censor and stifle their creativity to avoid giving offense.

Except you can’t avoid offending the perpetually offended.

Check out that first link if you want to get a good look into the culture warriors’ mindset. They’ve got this weird belief that if you tell a story about Person X, then you are robbing a real life Person X of their ability to tell that story. Like if a white guy tells a story about a teenage Nigerian girl, then a teenage Nigerian girl can no longer tell her story. Okay… Is there like a secret checklist at publishing houses I don’t know about? Sorry, Abegunde, this story is awesome, but we’ve already reached our quota on Nigerian YA for the year.

(Luckily for her, Abegunde can just go indy now!)

In the world of fiction, the SJW is constantly perched, like a falcon, ready to swoop in and shriek Cultural Appropriation at any author who dares transgress. So if you write about another culture you don’t belong to, and they don’t like you for some reason, they’re going to flip out. They’ll probably write mean reviews, form an angry twitter mob of rainbow haired Trigglypuffs, and call you names.

Ignore them. Or better, if you have the mindset and a career capable of withstanding their slander, mock them for their bullying stupidity. Bullies hate being laughed at.

If writers were limited to writing about people just like themselves, fiction would be incredibly boring. We are professional liars. Our job is to make up entertaining stuff. If we were that limited fiction would get really lame, really fast, because most authors are actually pretty dull. Sure, we write about heroic people in interesting situations, but most of us spend our days sitting in a chair in front of a keyboard, eating chips, and that’s boring as shit to read about.

Now, if you’re going to write about another culture, then you need to do your homework and try to make that as real and interesting as possible. But screwing that up doesn’t make you racist. It just makes you a bad writer. Get good, scrub. This doesn’t just apply to writing real cultures either. It is a question of basic world building. If you build an interesting culture that makes sense to the reader and feels real, score. You did your job.

Characters are the same. Liven your characters up. Give them likes and dislikes, give them traits, give them opinions, beliefs, hobbies, whatever. Make them people.  Make them interesting. That’s what really matters.

This whole bullshit about how an author has to “respect” a character if they’re a different culture… Bullshit. That character works for me. That character is going to fill whatever roll in the story I created that character to fill. Every culture has heroes, villains, victims, geniuses, morons, saints, and clowns.

If you’re not part of the cool kids crowd, and you write about a member of a “marginalized group” then they expect you to treat that character like an absolute saint, because otherwise the SJWs will swoop in to screech at you. This is why if you write a female character who is flawed somehow, somebody is going to accuse you of misogyny. Get used to it. The other option is perfect characters, and perfect characters are boring.

The key is writing good characters, period. Getting hung up on an artificial checklist is just bullshit. Make your characters interesting and give them an interesting story, entertain your readers, then laugh at the inevitable haters who are too hung up on minutia and agonizing over rules to create any art themselves.

Notice that this Cultural Appropriation thing only ever goes one way. Take for example a prog author who has never touched a gun, but apparently it is okay for them to write the gun culture. Usually as illiterate redneck Bubbas out murdering school children. Totally legit. Or take a goodthink peacenik author who has never served a day in the military, and they can write their blood thirsty, ticking time bombs of PTSD addled murder rage, and that’s perfectly cool. Christians? All up in your literature, as long as they are bad guys.

We don’t hate characters like that because they are appropriating our culture. We hate them because they are lame, boring stereotypes written out of obvious lazy ignorance. Quit sucking and you’ll sell more books.

Look, if you’re an aspiring author and this Cultural Appropriation nonsense has scared you away from writing what you want to write, you’ve bought into their con. Screw that. Write what you want to write. Because here is the ugly secret, no matter what you do, if they don’t like you or they get a bug up their ass about you, they’re going to attack you somehow anyway.

So you don’t write about any other cultures other than the one you come from because you are scared you’ll be committing Cultural Appropriation?  Okay. But then they can attack you for your lack of “diversity”. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

See? It’s a con game. The only way to win is to not play at all. Write what you want. Write what you think is awesome. Don’t let bullies scare you.

The sad truth is that what you actually put in the book is for the most part irrelevant to these people, because they’re just going to make up bullshit about it anyway. They don’t actually read much. See the talk above where the Fat Advocates were yelling at the skinny author and refusing to read her books, even though she was on their side. It came as a surprise to me and my readers when we were informed all my books were Manly White Men Having Manly White Adventure.

These critics don’t actually give a shit about anyone they claim to speak for. They’re not defending any underdogs. It is just a perpetual game of gotcha. They’re looking for reasons to be offended, because their culture equates being offended with being good. It’s all virtue signaling and posturing. And half the time they’re so damned ignorant they’re not even fluffing their feathers in the right direction.

For example, I wrote Son of the Black Sword. It is set in a fantasy world where the culture is based in large part on India and southeast Asia. I got one review from a culture warrior (on GoodReads obviously) where I was attacked because of my horrific stereotypes of Asians, and how I was so lazy that I didn’t even bother to do any research at all about different Asian cultures, because at the beginning I had some of the characters eating rice balls! And rice balls aren’t even Indian food!

Hmmm…. https://www.google.com/search?q=indian+rice+balls&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6pbChnY3PAhXBOj4KHUgJANcQ_AUIBigB

Disregarding that rather delicious looking Google image search, and the fact that in real life everybody who can grow rice figured out some way to squish it into a convenient clump, who is to say that the people of Lok didn’t culturally appropriate rice balls from somebody else before the rain of demons? It is after all, an imaginary place.

If I listened to these mopes, I never would have been able to write about Iron Guard Toru wearing samurai power armor bashing ninjas with a tetsubo, and that would make the world a much sadder place.

Cultural Appropriation is stupid when applied to the real world, and it becomes even dumber when they try to apply it to made-up worlds. If SJWs had their way we wouldn’t be able to write about somebody who looks slightly different than we do, how the hell do they expect us to write from the perspective of space aliens?

Cultural Appropriation is the stupidest argument ever.

 

What the Hoon?
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M. Kupari
Guest

I wonder…is this why most of Stephen King’s characters were damaged authors from New England?

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

It’s certainly the reason so many protagonists in literary fiction are middle-aged academics who cheat on their wives.

azazel
Guest

That was the case since long before “cultural appropriation” became a term.

Mary
Guest

But it is why they found it so easy to declare the rules. Having no ability to go beyond their present setting, it’s not a restriction on them.

Zeewulf
Guest

Don’t forget the catch 22, Larry–if you don’t write a sufficiently diverse and representative cast in the story, you’re also Hitler.

imnohbody
Guest

He did mention that, about half way down the article, in the paragraph starting with “So you don’t write about […]”.

M. Kupari
Guest
Second point: “taking intellectual property, traditional knowledge, cultural expressions, or artifacts from someone else’s culture without permission. This can include unauthorised use of another culture’s dance, dress, music, language, folklore, cuisine, traditional medicine, religious symbols, etc.” Who, exactly, has the authority to grant this permission? Who speaks for an entire culture, as if they’re a monolithic bloc who all hold the same opinions based on their backgrounds and ethnicity? That presumption is incredibly racist, yet it’s how the left sees the world sometimes: not as individuals, but as groups, who have attributes assigned to them based on their group identity.… Read more »
Kristophr
Guest

Since my ancestors came out of Africa a hundred thousand years or so ago, damned near everyone on the planet is a relation of mine to some tiny extent.

I give everyone permission to use my cultures to create interesting things.

Except SJWs. They are appropriating my culture whenever they use any form of writing to communicate, and I require them to stop. They may bark incoherently, if they wish. I’ll allow that.

Kevin Findley
Guest

To bark incoherently, they’ll have to get permission from Hillary Clinton.

Randall Fitzgerald
Guest

That’s the deeply depressing part of the whole thing. The assumption, as far as I can tell, isn’t that there is one person to speak for an entire culture. It’s far worse.

The working idea is that if ANYONE with a claim to that culture is or would be upset by whatever you’ve said or done, then you’ve transgressed.

Doubly helpful because all you have to do is imagine a person who would be offended, and you don’t even have to check with anyone!

Pugmak
Guest

Maybe there should be a movement to enforce a total non-cultural appropriation life style on those who whine about cultural appropriation.

A reserve could be established where they can spend the remainder of their lives trying to chase down their food and kill it with a rock or pointy stick, live in mud huts and cloth themselves in whatever skins they can tug off of dead critters.

I’m sure anthropologists and various branches of the psycho industry would appreciate such a situation for them to study, long term.

pohjalainen
Guest

Okay, I give you guys the permission to use a sauna, dive naked into freezing water in winter when you get out of said sauna (remember to cut the hole in ice first, diving head first into ice is not recommended) or roll in snow if swimming does not interest you, drink Koskenkorva, use a puukko and swear in Finnish. Since I am a certified Finn, birth certificate, passport and all, I can undoubtedly do that. 🙂

Kevin
Guest
I think it’s funny to see you and Moshe Feder (who’s clearly liberal) making similar points. You’re both right that the good parts of any culture should be appropriated by any other culture that wants! I think the universally acknowledged problem is that there are certainly people who depict a culture poorly and deserve to be mocked for it. I also think that everyone, including the SJWs, should be allowed to express that mockery. If you don’t like something, by all means write or talk or make signs about how you don’t like it. Or, even better, write a culture… Read more »
Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Yeah, Moshe has been making sense lately. I know that doesn’t excuse what he said about us, but maybe he’s starting to see things differently.

Kevin
Guest

My impression is that he’s simply a complex human like most of us. Just because he agrees with the left on so many issues doesn’t mean he is in lockstep with them.

I don’t think he sees things differently than he used to so much as he’s not afraid to express his difference from them on the issue of the day. It’s a rather refreshing difference from so many on all sides who simply spout the rhetoric generated by a few leaders.

60guilders
Guest

I’m going to disagree with both of you. I think the Truesdale incident caused him to realize that some of the people on his side were, to put it mildly, delusional.
He probably has all of the same basic philosophical beliefs, but I think he’s twigged to the fact that his “side” may not be as clean as he’d like.

Kevin
Guest

That’s quite possible; I don’t know him personally, so I don’t know what he’s thinking beyond his posts on Facebook. In any case, I think it’s admirable that he’s maintained his position despite disagreeing vocally with lots of his own side. He certainly hasn’t been browbeaten into submission.

Dr_Mauser
Member

… yet. They’ll try.

(WordPress login doesn’t seem to be working right…)

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

I hope Feder is watching his back, career-wise.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

“I didn’t get a HARRUMPH! outta that guy!”
“Give the Publisher HARRUMPH!”
“HARRUMPH!”
“You watch your ass…!”

snelson134
Guest

Yeah, I find it fascinating that we’ve ceded them the right to decide if we’re allowed to work for a living by using the government legal system against private companies.

I find it even more fascinating that people don’t seem to realize that that makes what private companies are forced / choose to do by that government legal system’s penalties / incentives suitable First Amendment fodder.

Bjorn Hasseler
Guest

“Trigglypuff” – Whiny Pokémon evolved after midnight in the shadow of a special studies building cast by the full moon. Has a high-pitched shriek attack but is generally useless for fighting. Found mostly in Ivy League colleges and New York City publishing houses.

Patrick Chester
Guest

Her singing is nonexistent and won’t put anyone to sleep. 🙂

F Harper
Guest

Look up Bre Fauchex on Twitter, maybe give her some likes and a follow. She came under attack from the SJW thought police recently for posting a video about “diversity” in fictional characters.

It’s the flip side of cultural appropriation, of course. Don’t write what you know, because that’s racist and erases colorful people, but you also can’t write about anyone outside your own culture, because that is cultural appropriation and also racist to colorful people.

Shawna
Guest
Your use of “colorful people” just made me think of something. The SJWs love to talk about “people of color” and how much better than whites they are. Except it’s kind of weird that color is only important to them when it’s skin and only in shades of brown. Because (short of highly unusual genetics) actual *color* in hair and eyes–colors other than brown/black, that is–is nearly exclusively a trait of white people. That’s why they think it’s so racist to show blonde or red hair or blue or green eyes as more beautiful (in any circumstance, when comparing any… Read more »
FeatherBlade
Guest

So, refer to them as ” people of brown” instead?

It has trolling possibilities, I’ll give you that.

TXRed
Guest

Many years ago I reduced a proto-SJ Activist to total confusion by arguing that if she was a Person of Color, then I was a Person of Pinkness. Or a Native American. Logic is such a wonderful thing. 🙂

Kristophr
Guest

Personally, I revel in my Neanderthal heritage. Down with Homo Sapient aggression!

Shawna
Guest

I kinda like “people of earth tones”.

perturbed
Guest

Fifty shades of brown…

RIchard Paolinelli
Guest

I’m Italian, my wife is Mexican and my son-in-law is Japanese. Look out SJWs I’m appropriatin’ all of this shit and there ain’t a damn thing you can do about it!!! lol

jungshin
Guest

I’m multi cultural: i fight like a Korean, curse like a German, drink like an Irishman!

Semiba
Guest
I have conflicting thoughts on this. 95% of me agrees whole heartedly, but the other 5% thinks there is a small point to be made, and that point hinges on sacred beliefs. Taking something sacred and respected from one culture and turning it into a crackerjack prize is not cool, and, really, the only leg “cultural appropriation” has to stand on. However, I think this might better fall under the “don’t be a scrub” point Larry made early on. Still, it’s a grey area where I think the rule of thumb to obey is, “Don’t be a jerky douchebag when… Read more »
Robin Munn
Guest
95% of me agrees whole heartedly, but the other 5% thinks there is a small point to be made… I agree with you about sacred beliefs, but I won’t talk about that right now. I quoted this specific part of your sentence to make a different point. Whenever you find yourself saying or thinking something like this (I think there’s a small point to be made), be on the lookout for motte & bailey arguments. For example, you can start talking about how the whole cultural appropriation idea is stupid, and the SJW you’re arguing with will say, “So you’d… Read more »
pax
Guest

“Don’t be a jerky douchebag when handling the sacred beliefs of others.” — Unless, of course, those others are conservative Christians. In which case, jerky douchebaggery is the order of the day.

Synova
Guest
A rule against treating sacred beliefs carefully and respectfully only exists as a rule if it applies to your own culture as well as all the other ones. But even that comes down to bad writing, doesn’t it? If the characters are individuals and real the rest follows relatively effortlessly. If the character is a shadow of their label, if they’re a hollow Shinto priest described lovingly or a hollow Catholic priest described hatefully, it’s equally bad writing if they have no actual identity. Shrivers mentions in her speech things that aren’t “identities”, and then lists the various things we… Read more »
Coop
Guest

I generally just go by “If it’s not a religion or a uniform, it’s fair game.”

Which even then, most religions would be perfectly happy if everyone else adopted their stuff. That’s the whole point of missionaries.

Yu-Ain Gonnano
Guest

I am told that many Japanese stories use Christian symbols much the same way that American girls get tattoos of the Chinese character for “Soup”: It’s exotic and that makes it cool.

I’m perfectly fine with this. Some one, at some time, will be curious and look up what the symbols stand for. The more common it becomes, the more the Message will spread. Those who don’t bother to learn, wouldn’t have bothered anyway.

Leah
Guest

not just stories. there is a literal equivalent of popular t-shirts. http://twistedsifter.com/2014/11/japanese-discount-store-shirts-with-random-english-words/ and it gets about as hilarious as random kanji symbols on western t-shirts and tattoos, that wearer probably wouldn’t wear if they knew what it really meant (or they might wear it anyways, because it might actualy make it better in their eyes 🙂 .

Basara549
Guest
About 35 years ago (when I was a horny teen, and my collection of porn were mostly cast-offs from relatives magazines from ca. 1980 – remembered mainly from Khomeni winning Asshole of the year in one of the Hustlers), a PLAYBOY author wrote an article about the bizarre Japanese tendency to do this, including encountering an almost stereotypical shrunken up Japanese elderly woman wearing a T-shirt that had “HOT MILK” written across what should have been the breast area. This was, BTW, written during the period BEFORE when MHM: Grunge was set (the time period when Chad would have been… Read more »
FeatherBlade
Guest

I do wonder about that… When I taught English in Japan, one of the students – a sweet, polite, conservative looking sort of gal – wore, on a couple of occasions, a Tshirt with horrifically obscene English on it.

FeatherBlade
Guest

We were all afraid to ask her if they destroy what her shirt meant…

FeatherBlade
Guest

*sigh* if they destroy = if she understood

Shawna
Guest

I really want that “Precise Dwarf Bravery” shirt. If I ever go to Japan, I’ll have to shop at one of these places.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

I made up an ICHIBAN SUKEBE GAIJIN T-shirt once, and yes, I know what it means…

Shadowdancer
Guest

BWA HA HA HA!

60guilders
Guest

One of the rules for Indian dances performed at Scouting events–which I’m pretty sure still happens–was that you weren’t allowed to do religious dances.
This struck me as being an eminently sensible proposition.

Tennessee Budd
Guest

How would the non-Indian scouts know the difference? A lot of Indian dances are religious, and a lot of others (of hope for hunting luck, of gratitude or just celebration of a great event) could be construed as having a religious aspect.
I see it differently. If I wanted to do a religious dance of my people, fuck anybody who doesn’t like it. It’s be boring anyway. I’m about 10% Indian, but Dad was Southern Baptist & Mom was Church of Christ. Reeeaally boring dance, but not tiring at all. I could stand there for a long time.

60guilders
Guest

“How would the non-Indian scouts know the difference?”
You ask?
I get what you’re saying, but given that 90+% of Scouts aren’t Indian, and a higher percentage of aren’t animists, it’s not a bad rule of thumb.

BigFire
Guest

I don’t mind cultural appropriation. I just don’t like when a writer based their material on a cultural they haven’t had a clue about. Gun culture is an obvious starting point.

Shawna
Guest
I actually get this way with fanfic culture. There’s been a few books like “Fangirl” which are about fanfic writers, and I’ve hated them. Same with most video game books I read which don’t seem to understand gaming culture at all. The weird part is that in both of these cases, the authors usually claim to be (and for all I know, really are) part of these cultures. Which just means that their stories don’t ring as realistic to me based on my experiences with fanfic/gaming culture, whereas they apparently ring true to other people who have had different experiences… Read more »
emily61
Member

I’ve started books like that but stopped when I see that the author seems to be making fun of the group. It’s not a joke as one of the group, but against the group.

Leah
Guest
I’ve actualy read “Fangirl” and I found it pretty true to certain subset of fandom. it also happens to be a subset of fandom I have chosen not to engage in a long time after relatively short brush, but it IS a very large subset of fandom, comparatively speaking (and it exists not just for Harry Potter). (the accusation of plagiarism rang particularly true, because I have encountered it more than once as an attitude towards fan-fiction) so you are right about having different experiences coloring how one might describe them. I would be curious to read the gaming book… Read more »
Old NFO
Guest

This is another one of those YGTBSM speeches… sigh… And you’re right, as usual. So are we responsible to chase that ‘oriental’ character’s predecessors back to the dawn of mankind for ‘permission’? Or ask the Japanese if they got permission from Korea and China to ‘appropriate’ their cultures? Or ask the Maori and Zulu who took from who??? I’m going to write what I write. People can buy it or not… Sigh…

dmjole
Guest

Man, I am *so* dead if anybody finds out that I have an award-winning story in which the main character is a young black boy (!) who is a slave in Virginia (!!)– and I am neither of those things (!!!)
Then again, the story isn’t about “the black experience,” but it’s about human experience.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

I bet you’re not even from Virginia, h8er!

dmjole
Guest

How did you know?! I’ve never even BEEN to Virginia, not even in an airport!
I am SO guilty… I will take myself to the House of Pain right away.

Centurion13
Guest

Take yourself? Sounds like you are already there!

Carl \"Bear\" Bussjaeger
Guest

On the bright side of “cultural appropriation,” when some psychologically disturbed clown demands that I use his made-up pronouns for whatever imaginary gender, I can smile and say, “Oh, don’t worry; I would never do that. Adopting your pronouns in lieu of those standard American English pronouns of my culture would be to appropriate yours. I’m far too polite.”

jamesawolf
Guest

As a proud Zionist, I say we need to scream cultural appropriation when the BDS trots out the Israel/Nazi comparison canards.

americanpraetorian
Member

So, if cultural appropriation is bad, then what does that make the Chinese, who Sinicized the Xiongnu, or the Romans, who Romanized the Gauls? Does that make the conquered Xiongnu and Gauls bad guys for appropriating Chinese and Roman culture?

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

The Romans got their start stealing all the good stuff from the Greeks and Etruscans.

Robert Crawford
Guest

Turkish baths? Inherited from the Byzantines, who got it from their predecessors the Romans. The Romans apparently got the habit from the Carthaginians.

Bullfighting? Ever seen the Minoan paintings of “bull dancers”? The Carthaginians picked it up from their Phoenician forefathers, then carried it to Iberia, and the Spanish passed it along to the Mexicans.

And gladiator fights were the Roman adaptation of Etruscan funeral games, so not all they got from the Etruscans was good.

But the “cultural appropriation” ninnies would ignore the flow of human culture and leave us stagnant as little zoo exhibits rather than human beings.

Austin
Guest

I just want to say that cultural appropriation is awesome. I can culturally appropriate sushi one day, burritos the next, then pizza, empanadas, kababs… Seriously, it’s the best thing ever!

Shane
Guest

Damn Google Image search, now I’m hungry…

Mars Dorian
Guest
Unfortunately, your post is necessary. Lionel Shriver’s line puts it best: ” Membership of a larger group is not an identity. Being Asian is not an identity. Being gay is not an identity. Being deaf, blind, or wheelchair-bound is not an identity, nor is being economically deprived.” It can be a part of your identity, but a human being is more then the sum of his parts. Most characters I write about have different cultures and come from different countries–it’s fun to write about other people. If I were to write only about my ‘kind of people’–straight white males from… Read more »
TheWriterInBlack
Guest
Any time anyone talks about “Cultural Appropriation” I am reminded of this scene from Fortune’s Stroke by Eric Flint and David Drake: Irene, as was her way, began with humor. “Consider these robes, men of India.” She plucked at a heavy sleeve. “Preposterous, are they not? A device for torture, almost, in this land of heat and swelter.” Many smiles appeared. Irene matched them with her own. “I was advised, once, to exchange them for a sari.” She sensed, though she did not look to see, a pair of twitching lips. “But I rejected the advice. Why? Because while the… Read more »
Thomas Hewlett
Guest

In the spirit of the passage, I’ll steal this and make it my own: “Just as we have taken everything we needed—and discarded anything we must—so that Fiction could endure.”

Doctor Locketopus
Guest
” but we in American have long followed the same concept, followed it and doubled down on it.” Yes, we do. If one looked into it deeply enough, you’d probably find out that is where the original Marxist behind the “cultural appropriation” crapola came up with it. Step 1: Find something that makes America (or Western Civilization in general) strong. Step 2: Invent some fucktarded rationale for why the thing in Step 1 is Bad, Bad, Bad. Step 3: Distribute the fucktarded theory in Step 2 to the SJW cult. It does not have to be a supportable theory. It… Read more »
emily61
Member

Marxists have a glass jaw. They accuse other people of things but can’t take examination of their beliefs. Marxism isn’t science it’s a cult. If you judge a belief by what actions are associated with it, Marxism is a bloody thing with nothing positive in it.

roystgnr
Member

Reminds me of the thesis of “How the West was Won”: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/07/25/how-the-west-was-won/

“I am pretty sure there was, at one point, such a thing as western civilization. I think it involved things like dancing around maypoles and copying Latin manuscripts. At some point Thor might have been involved. That civilization is dead. It summoned an alien entity from beyond the void which devoured its summoner and is proceeding to eat the rest of the world.”

snelson134
Guest
Kipling put it pretty well: “When ‘Omer Smote ‘Is Bloomin’ Lyre” INTRODUCTION TO THE BARRACK-ROOM BALLADS IN “THE SEVEN SEAS” When ‘Omer smote ‘is bloomin’ lyre, He’d ‘eard men sing by land an’ sea; An’ what he thought ‘e might require, ‘E went an’ took — the same as me! The market-girls an’ fishermen, The shepherds an’ the sailors, too, They ‘eard old songs turn up again, But kep’ it quiet — same as you! They knew ‘e stole; ‘e knew they knowed. They didn’t tell, nor make a fuss, But winked at ‘Omer down the road, An’ ‘e winked… Read more »
The Phantom
Guest
I spoted this on Farcebook earlier today, that is an excellent article. As a writer, I will damn well “appropriate” whatever I see fit. Otherwise known as “research” in civilized society. How else to incorporate the whole quiltbag when I’m only one cultural identity by myself? I’m more than happy to lock horns with anybody that tells me not to write Chinese characters, or Indian characters, or fricking Ancient Sumerian characters, because cultural appropriation. One does not accommodate people like that, one runs over them rough shot, then goes back and puts the boots to them. The very idea is… Read more »
Steve
Guest

Randomly, any association with ‘The Shadow’ on minds.com? Because that would be kind of awesome, IMHO.

The Phantom
Guest

Nope. But since you mention, I’ll go have a look.

Ashley
Guest

Couldn’t agree more.

elwood p. dowd
Guest

Don’t forget the flipside: If you DON’T write about members of Class X, Y or Z (or more likely Class XYZ123§™) then you’re guilty of “erasure.” To enter the Theater of the Absurd that is all things SJW is always a lose-lose proposition.

TheWriterInBlack
Guest
On a somewhat related note, one of the reviews I got for Big Blue complained that “one of the subplots randomly became almost an ad for Christianity” (I had a character who was a devout Christian, who found strength in prayer and in helping others, and who refused to give up that faith despite some really nasty stuff going on.) Apparently in a major disaster of worldwide scope everyone is supposed to take a “God is dead” attitude and abandon all faith. This has not been what I’ve found in people of deep and abiding faith. Some may react that… Read more »
Shawna
Guest

Some people are extremely intolerant of Christianity in fiction, especially when they’re not expecting it because it hasn’t been neatly shuffled off into the “Christian fiction” section where they can ignore it. I’ve seen reviews of books where just because the book has a Christian character who’s not evil and doesn’t abandon their faith, the reviewer has called the book “Christian propaganda”.

John R. Ellis
Guest

Yeah. I recall when the director of PIXAR’s WALL*E (Andrew Stanton) admitted that his Christian beliefs at least partially inspired some of the elements of his animated movie about cute robots, suddenly a whole bunch of Leftwingers who previously lauded the film had a mass freak-out and started bashing it as Evil Disguised Christian Brainwashing. *rolleyes*

Patrick Chester
Guest

Why am I reminded of the Bloom County strip where they found out playing Death Tongue’s records backwards resulted in them admonishing listeners to say their prayers, go to church, etc?

Randy P.
Guest

The same thing happened with Pete Docter when they learned he was a Christian. There’s gotta be propaganda in those Pixar films! Give me a break.

Jason C.
Guest

Spaniards don’t do culture appropriation. We do genocide.

And we like it.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

And anyone who has a problem with it is racist.

McChuck
Guest

Spaniards are a cause of cultural appropriation in others. The survivors, anyways.

Yu-Ain Gonnano
Guest

Yes.

As an American, “Appropriation” *is* my culture.

Hell, English doesn’t “borrow” words from other languages. It herds other languages into dark alleys, beats them up, and takes their words and tells them to keep their mouth shut about it.

Also, as an American, I think *your* culture would benefit greatly if you appropriated more of ours. Americans are givers like that.

Cameron
Guest

“Also, as an American, I think *your* culture would benefit greatly if you appropriated more of ours.”

We call it Western “Civilization” for a reason.

Jeff Weimer
Guest
This is “write what you know” taken to a ridiculous extreme – write *only* what you know. Why can’t you *learn* and thus *know* about other people and things? I know what it’s like to be a Navy enlisted man for 22 years from head-cleaner through senior NCO (Senior Chief) and it was often fun in real life; it was quite often boring – and that which was not personally boring would be boring and excessively esoteric to tell. There’s a *reason* most Navy stories focus on officers (The Sand Pebbles notwithstanding); they are the focus of action and drama.… Read more »
LastRedoubt
Guest

And McCreepy (Jim Hines) and Kowal jump on the whole bandwagon, with Hines trying to risk the speech you mentioned.

Synova
Guest

Speaking of identities… if they didn’t jump on the bandwagon would they cease to exist entirely? *poof*

Kowal in particular seems all about who has permission to speak at all.

But Cultural Purifiers will Purify. Not much to do about that.

emily61
Member

It seems to be a case of: Those who can, do; Those who can’t, criticize, in hopes of immobilizing those who ca. It’s life lived as a crab bucket.

Tim H
Guest

Good to see The Guardian has actually learned something from their Tim Hunt clusterf**k, by printing the original speech in full rather than doubling down on the initial bullshit.

DeTroyes
Guest
“SJWs got up in arms about white people wearing kimonos.” I suggest they should avoid anime and comics conventions. They’d be awful for their blood pressure. Lets see here… Alexander McCall Smith – White guy. Most popular series is about an African female detective in Botswana. James Patterson – White guy. Most popular series is about an African-American detective. Michael Chabon – White guy. Writes novels with African-American protagonists. Isuna Hasekura – Japanese writer. Most popular series takes place in late medieval Europe and with primarily German, French, and Nordic characters. And these are just off the top of my… Read more »
The Phantom
Guest

SJWs are doing their level best to -end- cosplay at conventions, witness the current pearl-clutching regarding cosplay weapons. It isn’t enough to peace-bond your plastic SAO Kirito sword, no no no. You cannot -have- a plastic sword at all, because running with scissors you know. Weapons are icky, can’t be allowed.

One need only view the ravings at Mr. 27 Hugos swamp to recognize the deep and driving need they have to make sure nobody is having any fun.

DeTroyes
Guest

I try to avoid File 404 Sanity Not Found whenever possible. But honestly, the whole thing about weapons and cosplay has been going on for as long as I’ve been going to conventions (35+ years). It always seems to ebb and rebound in cycles, so much so that I’ve mostly stopped paying attention to it.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

The SJW playbook:

1.) Identify something fun and popular.
2.) Take it over completely.
3.) Ruin it so that nobody enjoys it anymore.
4.) Repeat step 1.

imnohbody
Guest

And now NY ComicCon has prohibited having any fake weapons other than those made of foam or cardboard with costumes. I’m not much into cosplaying, but I do know that neither of those are all that well suited if you’re trying to accurately reproduce a work’s weaponry.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/09/09/nyccs-weapons-policy-now-cardboard-and-foam-only-and-take-your-mask-off-when-you-come-in/

The Phantom
Guest

They’re going to have some trouble with that ‘take-the-mask-off’ thing if any Mooselimb chicks show up.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

Mess with their heads. Dress as a Fremen from Dune.

perturbed
Guest

I gather we are talking about the man-burka version rather than the David Lynch film version. *evil grin*

Richard McEnroe
Guest

When Glamdring is outlawed only outlaws will have Glamdring.

snelson134
Guest

And if you look at the comments, there’s a plurality that want to ban cosplay altogether.

Shadowdancer
Guest

How in the everliving fuck were they going to achieve that? By telling people ‘you’re not allowed to dress like that?’ In the US? really?

I’d LOVE to see them try to take on reinactors.

Patrick Chester
Guest

Okay, I just had an amusing thought of Civil War re-enactors being called cosplayers.

Then I thought of cosplayers re-enacting battles from the works of fiction they’re portraying. Though I guess anything with giant mecha might be difficult to pull off. 😀

Richard McEnroe
Guest

‘Fix! Bayonets! MOVE!’

FeatherBlade
Guest

Hmmm…. Now I could be wrong about this, but doesn’t cosplay tend to be a more female-dominated way of displaying one’s knowledge of and love for the characters of one’s preferred fandom?

I’m shocked that NYCC would even consider a policy that suppresses the voices and self-expression of female fans in such a disproportionate manner.

/sarc,notsarc

60guilders
Guest

Threy’re not expressing themselves in the right way, donchaknow.

Patrick Chester
Guest

All that aggressive cleavage and navel is a scary expression to some folks. 😉

emily61
Member

It’s not about the supposed but rather a way to control other people and virtue signalling.

Robert Crawford
Guest

Drop them at Pennsic. They’ll either get over their phobia or end up catatonic.

Synova
Guest

The kimono thing was an art install in Boston of a Monet painting with the chance to try on a kimono one day a week. Outrage ensued. Counter protests by Japanese ensued. The display was removed. Japanese in Japan found it all confusing and stupid.

wyrdbard
Guest

They also don’t realize the significance of just about anything. Kimonos are Japanese formal wear. It’s no more cultural appropriation for us to wear one of them than for someone from Japan to wear an evening gown or prom dress.

Joe in PNG
Guest

Heck, Japanese hotel rooms give you a yukata (an informal wear kimono, kind of like PJ’s) for free.
Don’t they know that they’re playing into their own cultural appropriation?

TheWriterInBlack
Guest

Is it cultural appropriation when I wear the Japanese clothes my wife (Japanese immigrant from Japan) gave me?

Richard McEnroe
Guest

When it’s the schoolgirl uniform, yeah, little bit.

S1AL
Guest

On multiple levels.

Joe in PNG
Guest

Well, they did steal those from Europe…

Richard McEnroe
Guest

TheTentacle Hell of St. Trinian’s!

Cameron
Guest

And that is what we call “Nightmare Fuel” around these parts.

Shadowdancer
Guest

REAL nightmare fuel:

Take tentacles, and instead of the nubile nymphs usually portrayed, insert the average American feminist like Trigglypuff.

Patrick Chester
Guest

*rolls SAN*

AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHHHH!!!!

*face melts like that scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark*

Richard McEnroe
Guest

Demon Beast KIng: “I’m gonna need sake and keep it coming. Oh, and a blindfold. Earplugs…”

Patrick Chester
Guest

Demon Beast King: “Suddenly I’m wondering why we go after human females…”

Richard McEnroe
Guest

“I’m wondering if we really caught one, sama…”

Richard McEnroe
Guest

Actually some people culturally appropriate trousers better than others. Head uptown and youy’ll notice many of them have neglected the cultural notions of belts or waist sizes…

slab1
Member

Guess Harriet Beecher Stowe should have been too ashamed to write Uncle Tom’s Cabin.

slab1
Member

BTW isn’t she culturally appropriating the English language?

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Me: a Canadian of Ukrainian-Polish-British extraction.

My last three protagonists: Elderly Texan veteran, posthuman female entity, Hispanic female space pilot.

I think my writing would be pretty dull if I only wrote about myself.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool
1. People complaining about appropriation are doing so from a perspective alien to historical English speakers. The complainers are engaging in appropriation, not okay, and need to find another language to bitch in. (It needs to be a conlang that they have clear title to.) 2. This especially came up during Black Lives Matter. American policing was heavily influenced by 19th British policing, which was adapted from French policing. (British didn’t consider French practices appropriate for a free people.) Apparently this somehow is not culturally authentic for certain American demographics. Fortunately, if one goes back thousands of years, there are… Read more »
John Ringo
Guest

No cultural appropriation? Okay. We go back to the 1950s. All women are hereby ordered to wear hats and gloves when out of the house. In the house is where they are required to spend most of their time. All food is to be boiled. No chocolate, tea or coffee allowed. Or OJ or refined sugar. Nicotine. (Native Americans.) Wait. No pants. Invented by the Huns, culturally appropriated by the Chinese and then by Westerners during the Renaissance. So 1950s but everyone in skirts. I’m good. Got kilts. Even suit kilts.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

I don’t have any long grey flannel skirts that flatter the male body.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

“No, no, no, these aren’t hakama! These are…uh…these are…Flemish leg blouses, yeah, that’s it!”

The Phantom
Guest

Kilts and Claymores, and painting yourself blue for the weekly punch up over whose sheep that is.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

AR15s and REAL claymores and I can haz ALL the sheep.

Joe in PNG
Guest

Ya, I’ve noticed that those who whine loudest about cultural appropriation tend to practice it quite a bit.
But, as is usual with SJW’s, It’s Not (bad thing) When They Do It!

LVTony
Guest

Something that goes right along with kilts and the food appropriations Larry mentioned is something I heard on the British show QI. Tikka Misala was invented by a Pakistani chef in Glasgow. Apparently a customer wanted some “sauce” for his chicken and the chef whipped some up and named it Tikka Misala.

Archer
Guest

As they say, “Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach.”

We should add, “Those who can’t do either, join a SJW mob and whine about successful people’s ‘insensitivities’ to your just-as-useless-as-you friends.”

John R. Ellis
Guest
Using SJW logic, my favorite comic book of all time, USAGI YOJIMBO, is the most evil, cultural appropriationist swill ever, because writer and illustrator Stan Sakai Hawaiian Japanese and freely took inspiration from the works of Evil Straight White Male American Cartoonists like Carl Barks and Walt Kelly along with Akira Kurosawa. Plus he’s not a humanoid rabbit from a fantastical alternate Earth’s variant of 16th century Japan! …..guess he’ll have to give all his devoted fans a mea culpa and start writing about the time he used to letter the Sunday edition of the “Spider-Man” newspaper strip for Stan… Read more »
John R. Ellis
Guest

What I wouldn’t give for an “edit” button. That’s supposed to read “is Hawaiian Japanese”

Larry Graves
Guest

White Guilt Complex is an ugly, debilitating affliction. Thank Gawd it is mostly contained and limited to liberals and idiots. Too bad it isn’t fatal (yet)….

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Example: recent remarks by John Scalzi.

Mrs. John C. Wright
Guest
Hear, hear! Thank you, Larry! This definitely has to be the most addle-headed of all addle-headed ideas. So I have noticed, according to the progressives: You can’t write about white people. Too many stories about white people. You can’t write about people not from your culture. Huh… so, in other words, they want us to shut up. Won’t happen. The one that made me laugh the most was the article that accused J.K. Rowling of Culturally Appropriating American Indian lore (it said religion) and “Taking shelf space from people of color.” And I thought: which scenario sounds more likely. You… Read more »
Bugmaster
Guest
To be fair, though: …Or take a goodthink peacenik author who has never served a day in the military, and they can write their blood thirsty, ticking time bombs of PTSD addled murder rage, and that’s perfectly cool. Christians? All up in your literature, as long as they are bad guys. We don’t hate characters like that because they are appropriating our culture. We hate them because they are lame, boring stereotypes written out of obvious lazy ignorance. As far as I understand, this is exactly how the SJWs feel when a white man writes a story about a black… Read more »
BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

They might have grounds for that belief if everyone and their dog wrote, say, a standardized ‘welfare queen’ stock character for all of their female black characters. Especially with a stock subplot of “negligent parenting causes child’s death, blames others and kicks up a fuss demanding justice”.

Porn is dull if you aren’t into it. A bunch of stories with the same stock characters leading to the same ‘surprises’ gets there.

You could say that a female black character who doesn’t address the political topic of the day is necessarily a stock caricature to such a leftist.

Bugmaster
Guest
Well, as far as I understand, SJWs believe that black people are fundamentally different from white people due to all the historic oppression. Therefore, a white person cannot possibly understand the experience of being a black person well enough to write about it. Thus, if a white person does create a black character, there’s no way that character would ever be anything more than a distorted caricature. I personally think this viewpoint is, to put it politely, total nutballs; but as far as I can tell, at least some SJWs do sincerely believe it. Thus, they experience the same severely… Read more »
BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool
Suppose I believe that drug users are inhuman. Does that mean I would have grounds to object whenever drug users are represented as other than corpses animated by demons? The useful narrative has been Christians, rednecks, et cetera really want to do things, so that the danger needs addressing with governmental force. Compare numbers of rednecks versus numbers of incidents. The most minority neighborhoods have burned has been incidents like Ferguson and Baltimore. There haven’t been enough massacres. Said narrative is pushed by people who can’t stand disagreement, and want to escalate. Repeating it is boring except for masturbators.
Bugmaster
Guest
Does that mean I would have grounds to object whenever drug users are represented as other than corpses animated by demons? Yes. More specifically, such a belief would be internally consistent within your (crazy) worldview, and I would be able to empathize with you. Empathy is not the same thing as agreement, however. Saying “I understand how you feel” is not the same as saying “because you feel this way, I must believe everything you say”. My whole point is that the people who disagree with you are not necessarily monsters, nor are they being disingenuous. They are sincere, despite… Read more »
BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

The people behind black face minstrel shows may have been sincere. I’ve not been compelled to study those enough to find out if they have any artistic or entertainment value. The segregationists had reasons for what they did, not all were graft.

This doesn’t mean I must endorse the craft of their propagandist hacks who did not know they spoke falsehood.

That someone repeats themselves for human reasons does not mean they aren’t boring. ‘Not demonizing them’ does not tell them how to entertain.

Larry’s writing advice is for getting people’s beer money.

CR Williams
Guest

Of course, even modern black people can’t really write about black people of another time because they themselves haven’t lived in that same era in that same environment under that same kind/variant and level of oppression as their forebears suffered because CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!

Vorkon
Guest
It’s also worth noting that the “cultural appropriation” argument is fundamentally pre-emptive, while the “liberal authors tend to write things like Christians, gun culture, and the military terribly” argument that Larry is espousing here is fundamentally reactive, based upon actually reading a work and determining, in hindsight, upon critical analysis, that the writing was shit. If critics or authors of a social-justicey bent want to read a white author’s work, and later say “the way he portrayed [insert race here] was shit, and shows he obviously didn’t do enough research onto the culture,” it would be one thing. If an… Read more »
Greg
Guest

How many of these culture cops are doing their righteous work wearing western fashions in western style houses speaking/writing in English over the western-developed Internet? Will they be giving THOSE things up any time soon?

Wes S.
Guest

Just as Eskimos have a thousand words to describe snow, so liberals have a thousand (and counting) ways to tell people to shut up.

*rolls eyes*

Also, I have to take issue with the assertion “So half the time when the Cultural Appropriation police freak out about something, they’re just being ignorant anyway.” Because that statement strikes me as only half correct. (More like 90% of the time, in my experience. And one hundred percent of the time, they’re just being dicks. 😛 )

George
Guest

They are missing the fact that the most successful Cultures are the ones that are the best at appropriating things from other cultures. That means someone has to develop the Cultural Appropriation Board game. Something similar to Civilization but where the Culture that acquires the most from the other players wins.

AldinTheMad
Guest

This comment is completely unrelated to your actual post Larry, but I’m just wondering, you ever watch Stranger Things on Netflix? I love this scene, https://youtu.be/IupEochRcIQ It’s my favourite of the whole season because Nancy’s one-liner made me think of MHI

Cobalt-Blue
Guest

Hmmm…… I’m creating whole new races, with each one’s language based on a different European language. Fey is based on Irish/Scottish Gaelic, Daeoni is based on Welsh (where vowels are optional) and Vaengi is based on German. And I’m wiping out entire civilizations (Godstones Books 1 and 2) and in my new crossover, I’m wiping out EVERYBODY and starting all over. Wonder how they’d see that.

TXRed
Guest

Probably better than my current project, which is based on the Raj, except on a planet where the natives are marsupials and their castes are based on who survived a legendary (?) cataclysm. They can tell at a glance the caste by coloration and size. And [sound of gasping and pearl clutching] the natives want the human colonizers to stay (Book 2) for Reasons (Book 3).

Cobalt-Blue
Guest

My problem is that my stuff has something in it to offend EVERYONE. Got the weirdest review of my Imperial Entanglements novella. The reviewer was convinced that a socialist government was liberal in spite of the fact that it controlled it people to the point of choosing their spouses for them. She couldn’t understand how the “anti-liberal” culture was “sex positive” and the collectivist government could be anything but liberal.. Honestly, she was a moron and had no understanding of politics, economics or even current events.

TXRed
Guest

Ooh yeah. sounds like you got a reeeeeaaall winner there. My condolences.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

Seriously, there’s another end to appropriation shaming. SJW methods work are most effective offensively on someone of Christian heritage. Less effective if deep into Christian ‘ignore worldly pressures’. Must less effective if one wholly abandons Christian influence.
1. An arbitrary excuse to attack.
2. Standard Marxist divide and rule.
3. A ruse to narrow thinking, and limit access to work arounds.

Halcyon15
Guest
Recently, I was told that the main character of an epic/heroic fantasy story I’m writing and posting online (I can provide a link should someone request it, but won’t now so as not to spam) should be aware of his “straight white male privilege.” This character, as a matter of fact, is straight and male, though I don’t understand how this person (a college student) thought he was white. He’s seven and a half feet tall, has a (mostly) human face (his nose is kind of snoutlike), and has horns. His entire body is covered in reddish-gold scales. He’s a… Read more »
Urusigh
Guest

I’m interested in links to those works. SotBS kind of piqued my interest regarding other-culture fantasy world-building.

Shadowdancer
Guest

Dude, write what you wanna write. If the Japanese can do that, and come up with some seriously cool and awesome stories in the process, why should we let the whining of some random feminist or socjust retard stop it? Kaoru Mori is writing historical romantic slice of life set in the Silk Road and it’s a gorgeous story. She also draws some seriously beautiful art, and would probably give the average socjus person a heart attack with regard her loving detail to the female body.

FeatherBlade
Guest

I love that series!

I’ll admit that I read it on one of the scanlation sites. This particular site has discussion fora and this particular story has a persistently obtuse SJW who will not shut up about how sexist the story is and how it should be written to conform to modern socio-sexual mores (in the sense that the relationships are Oppressive to Women and Should Be Depicted as Such But Aren’t).

Not even the explanation that people do things differently in different times and places affects this person’s monomania.

Shadowdancer
Guest
Yeah, I adore Mori’s work; she’s a self-professed Anglophille, and her adoration of her subject matter shows through in her work. As for the SJW I don’t know why she’s bitching about ‘sexism’ in a freaking romance series instead of, well, going to read something s/he/it would enjoy, like maybe a yuri series. I wouldn’t be surprised if that particular person does so for a great number of shojo manga series. AND LOL LOL LOL – the first couple that is shown in Otoyomegatari is a very unequal pair – 12 year old husband and 20 year old bride. The… Read more »
wormme
Member

How economical can we make this disparity? SocialJusticeWhiners have learned enough algebra to know how to divide…but not to multiply.

Captain Comic
Guest

You’re just trying to cover up the fact that your unbelievably huge royalty checks are written using appropriated Arabic numerals.

H8er

AJWood
Guest

Ahem, Indian numerals.

60guilders
Guest

Which, themselves, were appropriated by the Arabs from India.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

Along with the lateen rig, “damascus” steel, ZERO, etc.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Not to mention his books are full of words stolen from German, Latin and French, written in letters the Greeks stole from the Phoenicians.

There really is no end to his perfidy.

gmmay
Guest

“Cultural Appropriation is the stupidest argument ever.”

A bold claim when considering the fertile ground of modern humanities.

Orvan Taurus
Guest
And then if you happen to be a male WASP (or anything even close…) in the USA and anything of your cultural gets appropriated, why that’s Cultural Imperialism. Feh. I await the time someone is offended some “grand” piece of their culture has NOT been appropriated because it is regarded as not worth bothering with. That would at least make some sense. And of course the fantasy writing would stop cold if folks listened to the SJW’s… Are you, yourself a unicorn? A dragon? A person of minotaurish-look? (Moo.) Heck, Black Beauty couldn’t exist, unless Anna Sewell was really a… Read more »
Robert Crawford
Guest

BOYCOTT CHARLOTTE’S WEB!!!

PCBushi
Guest

Awesome post, Larry.

ScuzzaMan
Guest

Please watch this video, linked: Nobody knows how to make a computer mouse. It is an amazing tribute to idea appropriation, and the fact that our entire existence depends on the exact same practice these fools are trying to prohibit.

Truly, SJW/marxism is a death cult.

http://ericlanke.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/no-one-knows-how-to-make-computer-mouse.html

(Please delete previous comment without the link!)

Frank Probst
Guest
Here’s a piece that ends with a sort of “middle road”: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/15/we-need-to-talk-about-cultural-appropriation-why-lionel-shrivers-speech-touched-a-nerve The gist of the ending of the article is that if you’re a white guy who’s writing about a teenage Nigerian girl, you probably should do some research on what it’s like to be a teenage Nigerian girl. If your fiction is set in today’s world as it is, this makes sense to me. If you’re creating your own world/universe, you can do pretty much anything you want. If you’re writing historical fiction about, say, the French Revolution, then you need to do some homework on the French… Read more »
60guilders
Guest

The problem, of course, being that the people screeching loudest about cultural appropriation don’t believe in research.

Urusigh
Guest
That’s a better, more balanced article than I generally expect from the guardian. Thanks for sharing it. That said, there’s the problem that most of those people don’t share your distinction limiting it to “when set in the real world”. Historical fiction should be reasonably accurate, yes, but any other kind of fiction merely needs to be within the scope of possibility. If at any point “representation” and “good story” conflict, the needs of “good story” take precedence. The world is full of terrible fiction. If the author isn’t failing forward than representation becomes irrelevant as no one will read… Read more »
Frank Probst
Guest
I read this article without reading either the speech or the letter, mainly because I wanted to get a feel for the general reaction to the speech rather than both extremes. I agree that “good story” is more important than “representation”, but if you’re setting your story in the modern world, you presumably have some reason that you want your protagonist to be a Nigerian teenager. If it turns out that you’re way off, you should expect to catch flak if your story draws a significant audience. That doesn’t mean that you should burn every copy of the story or… Read more »
WyrdBard
Guest

And here’s a thing the SJW don’t realize about China and most far eastern countries. Rather like the Japanese’s are thrilled to have Scarlett Johansson as the lead in the live action Ghost in the Shell, I bet the Chinese in China are thrilled to have someone with the prestige and recognition of Brad Pitt. That will increase the prestige of the movie. That is a huge thing for those cultures, above accuracy.

Julie Pascal
Guest

It’s all perspective. If the Japanese want to culturally appropriate Scarlett Johansson, more power to them.

Julie Pascal
Guest
Do go back and read the speech. She didn’t do anything other than not bother to talk circles around her subject so that everyone’s feelings were soothed. And she did talk about writing well. But she also said, if someone *tries* but they do poorly, ought they not get credit for *trying*? And don’t people of every “identity” group, ethnicity, race and sex in the modern world run the entire gamut of human experience? I recall some time ago a very well known and successful author receiving the criticism that she hadn’t done multiple personality disorder correctly. Her response was,… Read more »
Tom Wallis
Guest

“Cultural appropriation” is just a pejorative term for individual instances of the process of transculturation.

roger v.
Guest

Its like SJW have been reading 1984 and think its full of viable social lessons. They are the true faces of modern day fascism, think what we think write what we want you to write, worship only the movement, all else is hate and fear.

Shadowdancer
Guest

As a Filipino, when I saw that you had a team take out an Aswang, I went ‘squee! Our monsters are represented!’ and hoped that you’d do a few more features of such.

Culturally appropriate away, Larry!

The Phantom
Guest

Have you seen Durararar? Those pesky anime kids culturally appropriated a Dulahan.

Urusigh
Guest

I haven’t, but it’s far from the only anime to invoke the dulahan.

nightfly
Guest

The whole point from the Gatekeeper perspective is that there is obviously nobody who can give permission to borrow cultural norms and traditions, and they leap at the chance to supply the deficit. A real job would have an occupant and a customer and a boss: three pesky obstacles to grabbing up the authority. It’s so much easier for them this way.

Soozcat
Guest

Ah yes, Hyperoffended-Americans. The very same people who scream that authors are wrongfully culturally appropriating other people’s stuff are the ones who scream loudest about internationally-loved American movies, TV, books, etc. being a clear case of cultural hegemony. (Which is evil, naturally — because to Hyperoffended-Americans, America is dogmatically the Land of the Irredeemably Evil.)

Then at the end of the day, these same mental midgets stalk off to Whole Foods to fill their carts with sushi, lamb korma, baba ghanoush and tiramisu.

Personally, I find their depth and breadth of cognitive dissonance hilarious.

DeTroyes
Guest
“Then at the end of the day, these same mental midgets stalk off to Whole Foods to fill their carts with sushi, lamb korma, baba ghanoush and tiramisu.” And then complain that their isn’t enough on their EBT card to make it through the month. A lot of their anger seems to be frustration that they haven’t gotten the recognition they think they deserve. They fill their unoriginal works with boring, pedantic lectures and faux moral outrage, and then wonder why they can’t make a living as an “artist” because no one will buy their work. They can’t seem to… Read more »
Richard McEnroe
Guest

Sojis must go to bed each night gnashing their teeth that Captain America is an international movie success…

DeTroyes
Guest

And lament the fact that Dark Knight Rises (which basically had Occupy Wall Street as the villains) was a smash hit.

Cameron
Guest

“Hyperoffended-Americans”

Thanks Soozcat. I’m appropriating that for my own use.

airboy
Guest

Baen Monthly Bundle for December includes:
Monster Hunter Memoirs: Sinners
Monster Hunter International: 2nd Edition
Two books in Eric Flint’s 1632 Universe
and three other books
for only $18.00!!

See: http://www.baen.com/catalog/category/view/s/monthly-baen-bundles/id/1999

The Exile
Guest

I notice that the SJW twit wrote her article in English. Being of English descent, I am offended by her, and any other non-English SJW’s, appropriating my culture.

Please point that out to these idiots from now on.

J Greely
Guest

“If you can read this, stop appropriating my culture.”

Julie Pascal
Guest

I do actually get annoyed at being called “Anglo” because, yes, I speak English, but I’m not Anglo. Nope.

Quiet Counsel
Guest
From a counseling perspective, this is the general problem I find with most social justice attitudes. The overt goals almost always appear to be controlling others. However, other people are exactly what you and I can never control. Unfortunately, SJWs cannot accept this. Illustrated by how viciously and publicly SJWs attack their own, Which shows everyone the cost of stepping out of line. Our triggered author describes the speech as “a poisoned package wrapped up in arrogance and delivered with condescension.” The heartbreaking thing about this quote is how an educated woman fails to realize that her own stance is… Read more »
FeatherBlade
Guest

I was with you ’til your ignorant repetition of ” Renaissance” and ” Enlightenment” propaganda re: the level of intellectual darkness in the medieval era.

Shadowdancer
Guest

Yeah. Wasn’t there recent discussion about how the loss of classic knowledge was caused by ongoing wars of attrition by the Muslims over long periods of time? (Looking at a book on my shelf titled Mohammad and Charlemagne Revisited.)

DeTroyes
Guest
(Warning. Long winded post. Apologies. You just hit upon one of my pet topics of interest!) In part. For all that the Islamic world did manage to save some of the great classical works, they destroyed far more over the course of their conquests, religious purges, jihads, and general disdain for anything that wasn’t the Q’uran. (“If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them.” — Caliph Omar). Even so, it appears quite a lot still managed to survive in Constantinople right up to… Read more »
Shadowdancer
Guest

Yep. It just irks me when the general opinion is ‘it’s all the Christians’ fault for burning books!’ When it’s not.

Also, speaking of cultural appropriation, Gutenberg was Roman Catholic, and the printing press was an invention of Catholics. Why are non-Catholics culturally appropriating Catholic inventions? /s

Shadowdancer
Guest

(though, oldest movable type is Chinese.)

DeTroyes
Guest
While the Christians did a share of the destruction, they also played a huge part in the preservation of what remained. Note that most of the Middle East repositories of books that survived – including many ones that Islamic scholars used – were primarily run and curated not by Islamic groups but by various Nestorian Christian monasteries, which were still allowed to operate right up until almost modern times. Christian scholars in Byzantium also held fast, and were primarily responsible for the re-transmission of Aristotle and Plato to Western Europe (tho arguably, neither were ever truly out of circulation there,… Read more »
Richard McEnroe
Guest

Read ‘How the Irish SavedWestern Civilization…’

steveH
Guest

1421? In my timeline it was 1453 when the Turks roasted Constantinople.

Do I have to adjust the timing belt on the ParallelTimeLineMobile again?!

DeTroyes
Guest
*quick google search* You’re right. Got the year wrong. No adjustments necessary. I plead sleep deprivation. 1453 makes it doubly annoying, because the printing press had already been invented by then. Had the Turks not torched the libraries, a good deal more might have been disseminated when printing became more widespread in the coming years. As it was, the sudden wave of fleeing scholars into Western Europe were instrumental in rekindling interest in the classics. Some of them carried what old books they could, but sadly the vast majority of the collection (an “unorganized, unkempt, decaying mess”, according to one… Read more »
DeTroyes
Guest

And before anyone says anything, I got the date of the Lindisfarne raid wrong as well. 793 was when the Vikings came.

Xavier Basora
Guest

I’d argue with Henri Pirenne that it was the Moslem blockade, the cutting off the Mediterranean and the constant raiding by sea and land caused the Europeans to fight for their survival until the 11th centurt

Tomyironmane
Guest

As a person of Northern European descent, I wonder where all these social justice warriors got the permission to appropriate MY culture? Who gave them permission to use cars, mass produced goods, mass produced books, computers, the internet, and all the advanced mathematics that make such things possible…? Who gave them permission to live in a society where their cities are clean and orderly and they’re not wallowing in their own filth? Who gave them permission to own a flush toilet?

Tomyironmane
Guest

Hell, who gave them permission to go to a UNIVERSITY? We invented those. Not them.

DeTroyes
Guest

Don’t you understand? It was all invented by Africans and other indigenous peoples, and later stolen by the eeeeeevvvvviiiiiilllllll white men, who claimed it as their own!

Urusigh
Guest

So, challenge for amusement:

Come up with comedic titles for books an author could write without risking accusations of cultural appropriation. I’ll start:

“My new life alone in the wilderness: an amnesiac hermit’s memoir”

“Writing letters to myself: A Solipsist’s fantasies about his fantasies”

“Stories from my other selves: an anthology of multicultural fiction by a multiple personality author”

mycroft
Guest

Stop Cultural Appropriation! Ban Italian food!
Really, don’t these idiots realize that tomatoes were native to the Americas and Italy only developed their most popular dishes centuries after Columbus.

Wat Tyler
Guest

We Irish are keeping our potatoes …

Frank Probst
Guest

Incidentally, Neil Gaiman’s upcoming book is a retelling of the old Norse myths and is titled “Norse Mythology”. A small number of people are already complaining about it.

DeTroyes
Guest

They also complained last year because one of his books was sarcastically titled “Trigger Warnings”.

I believe Gaimen laughed all the way to the bank on that one.

TRX
Guest

To hear them blither about it, “cultural appropriation” is like taking their picture. It steals their souls…

Shadowdancer
Guest

Yes, this, so very much this. It falls right in line with their magical words thinking process. SocJus is a more superstitious cult than any primitive religious belief.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

Objection! Assumes a fact not in evidence! WHATsouls?

Cadeyrn
Guest
Here’s a “legalistic” position just to augment the thorough fisking that’s already out there. When the US Constitution was developed, everyone agreed that Congress could secure to authors and inventors the exclusive rights to their creations for set periods of time if certain conditions were met. These turned out to be things like patents and copyrights, commonly known as “intellectual property.” In order to assure that society did not stagnate and ossify due to those rights being hoarded and kept secret, however, the knowledge was made public through public filings and, once the protection periods ended, the knowledge passed into… Read more »
Phil in w. Texas
Guest

How does one “diversity” without “appropriating”??? They love to mop themselves into corners, don’t they?

Joe in PNG
Guest

You have put more thought into it than they have.
When they do it, it’s “diversity”, “being well rounded”, or “cosmopolitan”- especially when they get back from a two week trip to some foreign country.
But when you do it, now it’s “cultural appropriation”. Even if you are both doing the exact same thing.

Stuart the Viking
Guest
No, they love to mop YOU into a corner. THEY are on the side of the Angels, so when THEY are doing it, it’s OK (because they do it with taste and decorum… and to help the unfortunate people (whether they are asked for such help or not)). Until, of course, they step over some invisible line, piss off the wrong person, or say the wrong thing at the wrong time. Then their fellow SJWs fall upon them with fang and knife (figuratively, of course) and they find themselves OTHERED. Just as there is no honor among thieves, there is… Read more »
deadcenter
Guest

I’m going to go with noted cis-het white male and purveyor of unallowed words for this.

Mark Twain:
“There is no such thing as a new idea. It is impossible. We simply take a lot of old ideas and put them into a sort of mental kaleidoscope. We give them a turn and they make new and curious combinations. We keep on turning and making new combinations indefinitely; but they are the same old pieces of colored glass that have been in use through all the ages.”

Lawson
Guest

Question: what if you never specify a character’s (or any characters’) race and sincerely don’t care?

Richard McEnroe
Guest

We appropriated Christianity from the middle east. (Considers Europe’s preChristian history). Do the really want us to go back to THOSE values but with tanks, cruise missiles and nukes?

DeTroyes
Guest

Fleets of Vikings with aircraft carriers and missile frigates.

hmmmmm…..

Okay, now I want to write this.

Patrick Chester
Guest

Are you going to use “Immigrant Song” by Led Zeppelin?

Joe in PNG
Guest

How could you not!?

Casper
Guest

Man this is so weird. Especially if you think a bit longer about the fact that they include ‘traditional medicine’ in their list of cultural appropriation. So if I’m sick and there’s a traditional medicine that seems to be effective, I should stay sick because else I would be a racist? These people are borderline insane.

Shadowdancer
Guest

Not borderline insane. They ARE.

TheWriterInBlack
Guest

Do you object to Cultural Appropriation? Are you an Aztec?

If the answers are “yes” and “no” respectively no chocolate for you.

Patrick Chester
Guest

Wow, way to rip people’s hearts out, dude. 😉

Fluffervescent
Guest

What you really can’t help but to notice with this sort of thing is that no one ever complains about how people have used Irish culture as an excuse to get drunk for decades.

It’s much like how Rowling’s been attacked for her use of Native American mythology. Bastardizing mythology has long been a staple of fantasy fiction. But let’s dogpile a British author who isn’t aware of American attitude for doing that exact same thing with a culture that’s deemed arbitrarily off-limits (if you’re not one of the cool kids, of course)!

Robert Crawford
Guest

Most “alien” thing I saw in Europe was the display of skeletons from ancient graves. Here in the US, the land with no government imposed religion, by law we have to hand pre-Columbian remains over to the shamans of tribes who weren’t there when the people died, who may be the descendants of their direst enemies, and never, ever, ever display them where a white man might learn something.

Between that and the way Islam is getting feted around the country, it’s like some people think the bar on government establishing a church only applies to some variant of Christianity.

snelson134
Guest

“This weekend I painted miniatures for a war game from Spain, played a video game from Belarus, listened to rap music from a white guy from Detroit, watched a cop show from Britain, had Thai food for lunch, and snacked on tikki masala potato chips, ”

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pebf9yzIHIw&w=560&h=315%5D

This.

Cameron
Guest

Hm. So I suppose one of the stories I’m working on that includes a group of Sikhs who have a reputation for killing evil Mages in a bad part of town would be cultural appropriation?

Excellent! I must now keep writing!

Richard McEnroe
Guest

Absolutely! You are exploiting imaginary People of Magery and their make-believe culture! I must speak out for those who have no voice, because, um, they… don’t exist…

SPQR
Guest

Our greatest literature is cultural appropriation. Example: Shakespeare appropriated from Greek, Roman, Italian, Scandinavian and a score of other cultural traditions. SJWs are nothing but Vandals whose tradition of smashing what they were incapable of eating or screwing they have appropriated.

Kyra
Guest

My religion was appropriated into a mocking, hate-filled hit Broadway musical. How did my church react? By buying ad space in the programs. “You’ve seen the play, now read the book.” “The book is always better.” And with a public statement about freedom of expression.

Randy P.
Guest

It’s easy to mock people who won’t kill you for it.

Alan S.
Guest

Are you firmly opposed to Cultural Appropriation? Yes?
Were you born near the Nile, the Indus, or the Fertile Crescent? No?

No rule of law for you.

Tom_Simon
Member
For the hard-Left wowser, this is not a bug but a feature. They don’t believe in the rule of law. Not only do they believe it doesn’t exist, they believe it can’t exist – that laws are merely a fig-leaf for raw oppression and exploitation. And they believe it shouldn’t exist – having inherited Marx’s daft idea that in the socialist Utopia, there is no law, only Plan. This also explains why they keep passing laws to command people to do things that cannot be done. They don’t view their edicts as laws, but as the compulsory directives of the… Read more »
Alan S.
Guest

I live in Seattle, so… well aware of the inherent insanity. But this line allows many followups on a -personal- level.

They become openly frothing when confronted with Catch-22s between their belief system and some concrete, immediate impediment.