Monster Hunter Nation

The latest Sad Puppies related stuff

You might have noticed that I’ve not posted much about this topic lately. My original points, that there is political bias in the system, which would result in slander and sabotage, has been pretty well proven. I don’t have much else to add.

Recently a Tor editor said something false and asinine. This is kind of a tradition, but for a bunch of fans this was the final straw. People got really mad (it turns out regular fans don’t like being called neo-nazis) and this time the comments came to the attention of Tor management.

I’ve personally stayed out of this one. I’m used to being lied about by these people. However, it turns out regular fans aren’t. Go figure. 🙂

As far as I’m concerned, this is between Tor and its customers. A bunch of folks have come out to condemn Tom Doherty as a misogynist for trying to protect his company, and more #standwithGallo to double down on her comments about how everybody who disagrees with them politically is a racist, sexist, homophobe. That’s awesome. You guys do far more to prove my original contention than anything I could have ever done on my own.

Here are some articles that I really enjoyed about the topic.

The first is from an author which goes into her personal history to explain why the Tor editor’s comments offended so many people.  I found this one pretty powerful.

https://www.affsdiary.com/shadow/2015/06/10/nazi-is-not-a-term-you-throw-around-lightly/

 

The next is from another author who has traded fire with actual neo-nazis, and I don’t mean argued on the internet fire, I mean literal bullets. In South Africa, Peter put his life on the line to stand up against real actual evil, lost friends, and is still picking shrapnel out of his body.

http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/an-open-letter-to-tom-doherty-of-tor.html

 

I recommend both of those to put this latest business in perspective.

On a related note, this one was sent to me yesterday. It is a pretty good summary from somebody who wasn’t involved. http://www.contrapositivediary.com/?p=3432

 

People keep asking me to fisk the latest dumb attack articles, but it is all the same regurgitated nonsense. The Gawker one in particular was just asinine. But I’ve said what I need to say for now, and in the meantime these books aren’t going to write themselves.

Book Signing in Albuquerque, New Mexico, July 11th
Recommend book stores in Albuquerque
John Van Stry
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John Van Stry
1 year 8 months ago
I thought that Mr. Doherty’s response was fairly mild and completely typical, all things considered. I’m rather shocked that there are people condemning him and claiming that it was misogynist, hateful, etc. The people supporting Gallo, who really did make a mistake by associating her views with her company’s views, are really out there. Unless of course they think by being so reactionary will keep Gallo from losing her job. Gallo made a mistake, and she has to realize it and should be doing what she can to minimize the uproar. Unless of course she doesn’t see that she did… Read more »
Christopher M. Chupik
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Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

I suspect some of them are angry because he had the temerity to point out that Sad Puppies are neither racist, sexist, or homophobic.

Hank Scorpio
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Hank Scorpio
1 year 8 months ago

I suspect you’re right that she will wind up soiling herself publicly again.

Matthew Bowman
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Matthew Bowman
1 year 8 months ago

I was asked to fisk that one too. My reply was that Gawker fisks wind up being repetitive, because the site is less original than Clamps.

Christopher M. Chupik
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Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

BTW, Clamps has been VERY active at Brad’s under the names “the Chevalier de Graz” and “Pyotr” and “Pieter de Graz”. Brad nuked most of his comments, but was kind enough to leave up Clamps’ artwork. 🙂

Shadowdancer
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Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago

That’s… the worst indictment I’ve read about the site to date.

T.L. Knighton
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T.L. Knighton
1 year 8 months ago

Yeah, I was asked too.

I declined as well for similar reasons. I mean, it’s Gawker. There’s better fish to fry.

Jared Anjewierden
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Jared Anjewierden
1 year 8 months ago

The best recruitment tool for SP is the anti-puppies.

At this point I don’t think there really is all that much more to be said.

The night of the Hugos is going to be interesting…

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Jeff Duntemann
1 year 8 months ago

Thanks for the link! I wasn’t involved before…but I sure as hell am now.

James May
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James May
1 year 8 months ago

You’re right about the “anti-Puppies” vs “SJW.” The first seem mostly opposed to the slates, the latter are Third Wave feminists.

Shadowdancer
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Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago

I am humbled by such high praise, Larry. Thank you. I’m glad you liked my article/essay.

Christopher M. Chupik
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Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

And you got linked by Instapundit, too!

Christopher M. Chupik
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Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

Man, I hope Glenn Reynolds doesn’t have to deal with Clamps now.

Shadowdancer
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Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago

… Have to say, Clampsy is too much of a coward. He’ll go after me, my friends, threaten my children and harass my husband, but he won’t go after someone who has the ability to REALLY investigate him.

But I can daydream.

Bruce
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Bruce
1 year 8 months ago

Credit where credit is due. It is a powerful and worthy article. Thank you for sharing it.

Shadowdancer
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Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago

Thank you kindly for that praise. I’m glad you liked it that much.

Arwen
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Arwen
1 year 8 months ago

It was a great article, Shadowdancer. Your father sounds like he was an amazing man.

Shadowdancer
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Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago

Thanks, and yes he was. He died way too soon.

Shadowdancer
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Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago
I ran across this article http://aresgutierrez.blogspot.com.au/2008/04/journalists-live-colourful-lives.html The comments have a remark from my father’s best friend’s daughter, and one from myself. Mind, my dad was also subject to the strangest criticisms. I ran across a forum once where there were complaints that my father went around in second hand suits, being made by his detractors at the Department of Foreign Affairs. This was true. One of the military attachés from the Embassy in Paris was going home, and didn’t want to bring home his winter weight suits. He offered them to my Dad, who was happy to accept them. They… Read more »
Rick Ewald
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Rick Ewald
1 year 8 months ago

I read your post, it was excellent. I forwarded it to my friends as a great read on the subject.

Shadowdancer
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Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago

Oh wow! Thank you and I’m glad you liked it!

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Jeff Duntemann
1 year 8 months ago

I posted a link on Facebook. It was a marvelous article, and the photo of your father in the field of flowers was spectacular.

Shadowdancer
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Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago

Thank you so much.

I vaguely remembered having a class photo of myself when I was a tot in East Berlin. I am the ONLY person there who isn’t of European descent. We all wore Jungpioniere scarves. I couldn’t find it though. If I ever do, I’ll post it.

Christopher M. Chupik
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Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

Oh, and according to Scalzi, Sad Puppies feel “entitled”. Also, according one of the anti-Puppies (too lazy to look his name up) said: “They want things to stay the same. They don’t want change.”

Yeah, Sad Puppies wants the status quo. That’s why we nominated the same bunch of people who always get on the ballot, right?

And for the morons at the 770 Club who might be cherry-picking comments, that was sarcasm.

Josh
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Josh
1 year 8 months ago

The fools are still using terms like “change” as if it is always positive. In this scenario it’s like we kept having a steak dinner every year and they said “I’m tired of steak”. So now, year after year we have been eating crap sandwiches and they keep trying to tell us how much better they are than steak.

Synova
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Synova
1 year 8 months ago
I was just realizing this… I DO feel entitled. What I feel entitled TO is my own sovereignty. Particularly in the moral sphere, I refuse to give up my own judgement to others. I refuse to knuckle under and conform, no matter what the laudable cause. And I’ll agree with a lot of their “laudable cause”. But I see no way that what they DO is promoting inclusion or diversity or equality. It *certainly* does not promote “live-and-let-live.” And since I feel utterly entitled to My Own Judgement… here I stand.
Josh
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Josh
1 year 8 months ago
The past two months have been stunning. The SJWs have managed to actually increase their agitation over the past two months rather then let it simmer down. They don’t know when or how to shut up and now their hypocrisy has been put on full display. It would be “dirty pool” for Ms. Gallo to fired while they gleefully and enthusiastically cheer every time one of their opponents has their livelihood destroyed. If I cared enough, I would go mine these people’s cyber foot prints to see what they had to say about Memories pizza a few months ago. Odds… Read more »
James May
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James May
1 year 8 months ago
The last 3 three years have been stunning. We have repeatedly aired our grievances which have instead been ignored as confirmation we are racists, misogynists and homophobes. You cannot talk to these people – they are an odd coalition that ranges from fanatically naive and racist to people with genuine mental health issues. We have tried to talk and they have banned and deleted from the beginning and dug their heels in even more now. You have two choices which are much alike: you can boycott Tor and continue to disrupt the Hugos in the hopes you can bring enough… Read more »
Rob Thompson
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Rob Thompson
1 year 8 months ago
What I find unbelievable is that some of the Tor folk have doubled down on stupid. Moshe Feder – consulting editor at Tor – publicly identifies himself as such, then says, any comments on his FB wall are his alone and don’t reflect Tor. That’s what I mean by doubling down on stupid – because he then goes on to state that Vox is in fact a neo-nazi and that Irene Gallo was correct in all particulars of her statement. You would think, with even a modicum of reading comprehension, as editors should require – that he wouldn’t say that.… Read more »
BigFire
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BigFire
1 year 8 months ago

He figure he’s high enough on Tor food chain, and is the editor for two of their highest profile authors (Brandon Sanderson and Dan Welles) that he’s untouchable.

jdgalt
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jdgalt
1 year 8 months ago

If he is that high up on the food chain, then Tor will go on escalating until they drive SP to announce a boycott of them. At which point I predict that Tor’s parent publisher will see the need to clean house at Tor, and if we’re lucky that will include the Nielsen-Haydens.

Khazlek
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Khazlek
1 year 8 months ago

I doub that the puppies and the anti-puppies combined represent enough people to affect Tor much by a boycott. From the glowing reviews that John C. Wright, Scalzi, and others have given, Gallo’s designs help move product.

Synova
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Synova
1 year 8 months ago

Well… They did. Now I
wonder, is it possible for her to be professional and provide an excellent cover for an unrepentant neo nazi racist homophobe?

Shadowdancer
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Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago
reposting a comment I made at TL Knighton’s: I don’t call for her sacking. A competent HR makes that decision and the sales department will look at that hard and start paying attention to sales. I stated in my blogpost that I felt bad for Tom Doherty, since the people working the brand he clearly loves have no love for his house, and are willing to behave badly on behalf of their ideology, and no longer have the capacity in at least keeping it out of their promotional posts and discussions which are representative of the company AND the work… Read more »
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Jeff Duntemann
1 year 8 months ago

Back in the 90s and early oughts, I ran editorial for the largest book publisher in Arizona. As best I can tell, we had revenues about what Tor has now. (Arizona is not exactly Manhattan, and halleluiah for that!) We had a code of conduct for employees that emphasized professionalism. I made certain things very clear: Alienate our authors, distributors, or major suppliers, and your job is over. I won’t call for Gallo’s dismissal. I will say, however, that in most publishing organizations (or most companies generally) she would already be gone.

James May
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James May
1 year 8 months ago
I’m of two minds (or six) about this. My natural instinct which predates this white privilege nonsense is to leave people alone and let them say what they want. The first problem there is the SJW habit of forcing people out of places and thereby setting the precedent themselves. The far worse problem is I never in a thousand years expected a hate speech movement to arise in SFF. I just never saw that coming and I frankly don’t know what to do about it. It’s hard to marginalize supremacists by leaving them in possession of the field. That is… Read more »
TRX
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TRX
1 year 8 months ago

I just googled “Tor cover art.” None of it is actually repellent (anyone remember the Signet covers of the 1970s?), but I don’t find any of it particularly attractive.

If Tor wanted to maintain the style, any new hire should be able to continue it without difficulty.

Craig
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Craig
1 year 8 months ago

I already dropped the stuff I was tracking on my own purchase list, and that included one author of whom I have bought every novel he’s produced.

There are books I’ll miss, that I’d like to read. But i make enough that I’ll only read what I’m willing to buy, and right now I’m not willing to buy from Tor.

Uncle Lar
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Uncle Lar
1 year 8 months ago

Thankfully, there is still a very active used book market. Most mid sized cities have at least one used book store. With patience those books you now choose to forego will turn up, not only at a discount, but purchased with the knowledge that none of the sale price will ever go to the publisher. Or the author for that matter, but if you feel so inclined there are always other ways to reward a writer directly.

Craig
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Craig
1 year 8 months ago

My own city has about 1/4 the used bookstores it did ten years ago….

Hell, if Tor turns around it’ll be easy enough to buy the books later new.

Reziac
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Reziac
1 year 8 months ago
Aside from being an endangered species, usedbook stores are a regional thing. I don’t know about east of the Mississippi or the rest of the world, but — in the Mountain West and Great Plains, every wide spot in the road has a usedbook store, and by the time a town achieves a stoplight there are two or three. Contrast this with California, where usedbook stores are far and few between (fewer in all of Los Angeles than in just half of either Wyoming or Montana, which have a fraction of the population). I say this as one who used… Read more »
Doug Loss
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Doug Loss
1 year 8 months ago

Look for Half Price Books, or 2nd and Charles. Used book chains.

TRX
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TRX
1 year 8 months ago

Books are the same price all across the US, but the average wage isn’t. Comparatively, I have to pay more than twice as much as a Californian for the same book.

jic
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jic
1 year 8 months ago

You receive the exact average wage for your state?

TRX
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TRX
1 year 8 months ago

“Assume a spherical customer of uniform density…”

Doug Loss
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Doug Loss
1 year 8 months ago

Is that a Walmart joke? 🙂

richard mcenroe
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richard mcenroe
1 year 8 months ago

In Los Angeles and NYC, in my experience, used book stores are a sign of cultural vigor and economic ill-health. They don’t generate a lot of revenue compared to a chain store, and so they locate and thrive in areas where rents are cheap and accommodation, um, “atmospheric”. As the commercial vigor of a city improves, property values increase, rents go up, leases are not renewed, and your used book stores get driven into the economic fringe neighborhoods or out of business.

saintonge235
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saintonge235
1 year 8 months ago
        Did you notice how condescending his post was?  Gallo is a “visual artist”, and thus “writes spontaneously.”  She’s not actually an adult that might be responsible for her words.  If you substitute ‘woman’ for “visual artist,” the contempt Feder holds Gallo in would be clear to all.         But even worse is the way he insults people’s intelligence.  Does he think we can’t read?  The notorious post started out “Making Sad Puppies sadder…Proud to have a tiny part in this,” followed by a link to a Tor page announcing the publication of a… Read more »
James May
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James May
1 year 8 months ago
It is not one person’s opinion. We have had anyone not on board with this privilege/gender/race stuff called woman-hating, homophobic racists from across the spectrum of SFF’s institutions for more than 3 years now. How many comments do you think have been deleted at Tor alone just for saying “I don’t hate women, gays or PoC”? Video gaming too. “I’ve always been uncomfortable with the way Feminist Frequency picks on the white… cisgendered, heterosexual establishment because any push-back can be easily dismissed as racism, sexism, or some sort of phobia.” – Liana Kerzner, Gamergate journalist SJWs are as on the… Read more »
Michaelbrent Collings
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Michaelbrent Collings
1 year 8 months ago
Wes S.
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Wes S.
1 year 8 months ago
Hey, Michaelbrent, I thought your name sounded familiar; I read “Darkbound” a couple of months ago – nicely chilling, just the perfect thing to read before tucking in for the night – and “Twisted” is waiting in the “to-read” file on the ol’ Kindle as I type this. To allude to something you wrote in your piece: One of the toughest things about the whole Sad Puppies imbroglio for me – and to be clear, I’m a Sad Puppy supporter who’s feeling a tad rabid these days, after some of the hate being slung around – is that I find… Read more »
Mark
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Mark
1 year 8 months ago

A well reasoned and thought out post on the situation.

G.K. Masterson
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G.K. Masterson
1 year 8 months ago

I’m another author who’s had it with being called a neo-Nazi. No more Tor books for me — not until Gallo issues a real apology.

(Further thoughts about it on my site which is my name .com if anyone’s interested)

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Dr. Mauser
1 year 8 months ago

And if she needs help with writing that, I wrote up a post about the four elements that an apology requires.

https://drmauser.wordpress.com/2015/06/10/the-elements-of-an-apology/

(And Billy-Bob the Sixgun Birthday Clown should be a thing.)

pete
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pete
1 year 8 months ago
Gallo’s screed and those of her defenders are fascinating from a psychiatric POV. Consider how they invented a strawman and then continue to hurl invective at it with frothingly maniacal intensity. One can discern, upon objective reflection, that this is what George Orwell was trying to describe with the “Two Minute Hate.” The Psychiatric medical community will need to come to grips with this problem. Progressivism will hopefully be categorized quite soon as what it truly is – a profound mental disorder. Once this is done, treatments and therapies can then be developed. The need is clearly urgent – these… Read more »
Patrick Chester
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Patrick Chester
1 year 8 months ago

I think Orwell was being generous by limiting it to only two minutes of hate.

Doug Loss
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Doug Loss
1 year 8 months ago
It’s a real form of mental illness: “A mental disorder whose symptoms include lashing out in aggressively verbal or violent ways has recently been found to be nearly twice as common as previously thought. The research has sparked debate within the psychological community about the diagnosing of a mental illness whose symptoms overlap with normal, if undesirable, human behaviors, as well with as symptoms of other disorders. “Intermittent explosive disorder (IED), which is characterized by flying off the handle and overreacting to stress, was first recognized by the American Psychiatric Association in 1980. Now, as the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual… Read more »
D. G. D. Davidson
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D. G. D. Davidson
1 year 8 months ago

That depends on what you mean by “real.”. There is no such thing as a scientific, or even a precise, definition of neurosis, and IED is pretty clearly BS, part of psychology’s trend toward making all of us patients.

Their problem is not neurosis, but unrepented guilt. Rage is a refuge for the conscience-haunted, because violent passions momentarily mute the conscience. Psychologists do not understand this because their theories, still ultimately rooted in Freud, are fundamentally wrong.

jic
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jic
1 year 8 months ago

I think it isn’t (for the most part) psychiatric, but tactical. Note that she was replying to somebody who’d never heard of the puppies before. To people like Gallo, the important thing is to create the idea that we’re untouchable to those who are new to the issue or on the fence. Of course, it’s a tactic that’s likely going to backfire for them.

Arwen
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Arwen
1 year 8 months ago

Off topic but I keep getting “Error establishing a database connection” when I try and visit monsterhunternation.com

rmhartman
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rmhartman
1 year 8 months ago

Yeah. I got that once, then got through the second time. SOmething is off.
btw: I found a couple of other nice summaries yesterday. (Actually the second contains a huge recap from the first before it goes further)
https://theartsmechanical.wordpress.com/2015/04/06/the-storm-in-science-fiction/

https://theartsmechanical.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/eric-flint-owes-brad-torgeson-and-the-rest-of-the-puppies-a-huge-apology/

Bruce
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Bruce
1 year 8 months ago

Happens periodically to me too. Refresh/retry and it seems to go through for me. But it wasn’t happening before the update/redesign.

BigFire
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BigFire
1 year 8 months ago

Larry, you need to wake someone over at CorreiaTech. Time to feed the hamster some Budweiser https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42gHBgznISU

JackWylder
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JackWylder
1 year 8 months ago

Beer is not needed- we are powered by hate (& bacon)

JackWylder
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JackWylder
1 year 8 months ago

I *think* I’ve tracked down the source. Let me know if it continues…

Christopher M. Chupik
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Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

Possibly the most repellent comment about the Gallo controversy, from reviewer and supreme dick James Nicoll: “Tom Doherty certainly has a talent for licking jackboot.”

I would say Nicoll is a fellow Canadian, but I assure you, I have no fellowship with this man.

Synova
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Synova
1 year 8 months ago

I recognize his name from usenet ages ago. What I don’t recognize is his behavior.

jaed
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jaed
1 year 8 months ago

I’ve likewise recognized some names from r.a.sf.w… and thought to myself, “Hmm, I don’t remember this person being malicious and insane-sounding back then. I wonder what happened?”

I wonder what did happen. People change, I guess.

Brian Niemeier
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Brian Niemeier
1 year 8 months ago

“My original point…has been pretty well proven. I don’t have much else to add.”

Their slanders are like memetic Von Neumann machines.

Kristophr
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Kristophr
1 year 8 months ago

When they stop doing useful things, VNMs are referred to as “Grey Goo”.

Zsuzsa
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Zsuzsa
1 year 8 months ago
I’ve had two thoughts on this mess: 1) This strikes me as a moment of unintended revelation for Gallo. If you’ll forgive a slight digression, back in 2001, there was a assistant of some sort working in the British equivalent of the DoT, and on the afternoon of September 11, she sent a memo saying, “This is now a good time to get out anything we want to bury.” There was an uproar, and she apologized, but while she could apologize for what she said, she couldn’t apologize for the fact that she was the sort of person who could… Read more »
Synova
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Synova
1 year 8 months ago
The 9-11 comment could be the equivalent of gallows humor, or another way that people deal with horror. If it were me my first thought would be the human horror, my second might well be some gambit of denying that horror. (In truth, my second thought was… “Why did so many Americans not realize that bad stuff can happen to them?” On account of the paralyzing shock people were in, not due to the scope of the horror, but due to their reality unraveling. So, horror denial on my part was fascination over the revelation of how many people were… Read more »
jic
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jic
1 year 8 months ago

“The 9-11 comment could be the equivalent of gallows humor, or another way that people deal with horror.”

Believe me, it wasn’t. Just pure, opportunistic cynicism.

The Phantom
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The Phantom
1 year 8 months ago

“I’m also not sure how, or even if the community can be repaired when the divide is this deep.”

What community? If Irene Gallo is what’s swimming around just under the surface, and if there’s one thing Sad Puppies 1, 2 and 3 have proved its that she is representative of what’s swimming out there, then there is no community. More like a mobile lynching looking for a place to happen.

Armor up, check your six.

Jerry Burnett
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Jerry Burnett
1 year 8 months ago
The first time I went to the county library, I was 12. I used my new card proudly to check out Doctor Dollittle. The next trip I found … Lewis Padget and his wonderful robot which had been designed to open beer cans. That was almost sixty years ago an I have literally hundreds of books in my library and I still check out a half-dozen books a week from the library. Because I can’t afford to BUY everything I want to read, I send purchase requests to my library and they buy them for me. and I get to… Read more »
Wes S.
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Wes S.
1 year 8 months ago

Shadowdancer, I just finished reading your post. Your father sounds like a hell of a man, I would have been honored to meet him.

And yes, it’s almost infuriating to be libeled as a nazi by the likes of Irene Gallo and Moshe Feder (and the rest of the bitchy little Torlings). That said, I’m reminded of P.J. O’Rourke’s comment that Nazi comparisons didn’t bother him at all, for the simple reason that no one has *ever* had a sexual fantasy of being tied up and ravished by someone dressed as a liberal…

Mike
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Mike
1 year 8 months ago

That’s pretty damn funy.

Mike
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Mike
1 year 8 months ago

Kudos to Shadow for that article. We’ll done.

Truman
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Truman
1 year 8 months ago

Sometimes you can’t separate the employee from the employer. Here’s what Tom should have done.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7563568

MDV
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MDV
1 year 8 months ago

Yes you can. That is what FIRING is for. If they don’t fire, they are accepting being associated with what was said. They, anti-puppies, say it enough, but it bears repeating, Words have power.

trackback

[…] “The latest Sad Puppies related stuff” – June 11 […]

Joe Vasicek
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Joe Vasicek
1 year 8 months ago
The support for Irene Gallo on the anti-puppy side of the fence is inexcusable, but it makes sense when you realize that Vox Day has become something of a shibboleth to them. In order to prove your ideological purity, you have to denounce him as vehemently as you can, and everyone is trying to outdo each other. Those who do not denounce Vox Day as loudly or as enthusiastically as everyone else are clearly The Enemy. It’s very 1984. Thus, all the anti-puppies are rallying around Irene Gallo, because even though her neo-nazi comments were farcically unprofessional and slanderously inappropriate,… Read more »
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Jeff Duntemann
1 year 8 months ago

Yup. This has happened to me twice in as many days, once on my blog and once on Facebook. Vox-as-shibboleth is a very good insight. Thanks!

richard mcenroe
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richard mcenroe
1 year 8 months ago

Vox is the new Dick Cheney!

James May
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James May
1 year 8 months ago
“Hahahahaha! Intersectional gender feminism! Are you paranoid from privilege? What kind of misogynist cisheteronormative racist would make that up!” That’s called “flushing pheasants.” Milo just debated a women scientist on Sky News about a Nobel scientist who was forced to resign his position because he said female science students cry when criticized. After the debate she Tweeted “Absolutely reeling from the misogynistic backlash my @SkyNews debate has received. Hadn’t quite realized the extent of #everydaysexism.” Once again, Scalzi’s Squirrel Theory where throwing rocks at squirrels proves squirrels are angry is confirmed… cuz science and misogyny. Say what you want about… Read more »
Justin
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Justin
1 year 8 months ago
Larry, I noticed that you recently truncated your posts in the RSS feed and I wondered if you had a reason for doing that. I have been reading your blog for a long time via Google Reader and now The Old Reader and not being able to read the post from my reader is kind of a pain, especially since your site is blocked from my work computer (as are many useful sites). With my reader, I was still able to read your posts during my breaks. I typically visited your site on a occasion to look through post archives… Read more »
JackWylder
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JackWylder
1 year 8 months ago

Try it now and let me know if it’s back to full feed, please…

Christopher M. Chupik
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Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

I’ve noticed several anti-Puppies, including Jim C Hines claiming that Sad Puppies was “designed to lock out female nominees”. Now, putting aside for a moment that SP3 DID nominate several women (in fact, almost all the ones we nominated ended up on the ballot) the burden of proof is on the accuser. Can any anti-Puppies who might be reading these comments *please* point out where we locked out female nominees? Just because we didn’t pick the women you would have isn’t proof of anything but differing tastes.

James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago

Hines is still selling the 1 in 5 rape stats which means at colleges across America one woman is raped every minute. Borrowing the views of insanely hateful gender feminists gets you just that: insanity from pathological liars. Hines shot his credibility a long time ago.

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
1 year 8 months ago

Someone remind me, just who ran off a female Sad Puppies nominee this year? Wasn’t the people who nominated her. Hines is talking out of his rear.

Synova
Guest
Synova
1 year 8 months ago

That was TOTALLY not because they expected bad behavior from the Guardians of the Hugo or from their “friends”. Nope. Not a bit of it.

I mean… they could have decided to go with “Wow, I can’t believe that those ideological purists and retrogrades accidentally nominated you! Way to go, girl! You have my vote!”

But NO ONE backed out because they felt they’d be targeted for abuse. No. One.

Fruitbat44
Guest
Fruitbat44
1 year 8 months ago

Thanks for the links Larry. Good luck with the writing. Sorry that people still seem to confuse you with Vox Day. Hope that the Hugos go to the novels people who read SF/F think are the best in the field.

James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago
“Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.” – from George Orwell’s 1984. Does that sound familiar? Pay particular attention to the “not grasping analogies,” one of the things I’ve noticed highlights SJW thinking, if you can call not… Read more »
Torin
Guest
Torin
1 year 8 months ago
The thing that gets me when browsing through the anti-puppy comments is the drive they seem to have to prove the puppy submissions as objectively bad. Not that they just don’t like them, or their taste is different, but that the submissions are so bad that they must have come from a 5th grader who failed English and has a terminal case of Bulwer-Lytton syndrome. They don’t get into a lot of detail, but it is like a article of faith that all the submissions are bad and they are only out there to injure the brains of any poor… Read more »
Sanguinius35
Guest
Sanguinius35
1 year 8 months ago

I won’t lie, all of this has made me hang up my writing pen, possibly for good. Not sure I want to be a part of a SFF community that displays this kind of behavior. I read G.K. Masterson’s response, and agree with it. But I am, personally, so heartbroken, and not a little pissed off, over all of this that I am no longer certain I want any part of the professional end of the universe. Especially not when the ‘professionals’ refuse to act professional.

Shadowdancer
Guest
Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago
I was encouraged by a friend to join a SFF storywriting magazine, but I held back and read the stories. The stories they published indicated that they accepted certain types of narratives, and that made me unsure if I wanted to try submitting stories to them, being openly conservative, amongst other things. I chose to go Indie; but really, I was prepared to write and put my stories up on the Internet for free because I just wanted to write. Then I started reading about how indie authors were doing so well elsewhere. The creator of Log Horizon originally posted… Read more »
BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool
1 year 8 months ago

Yeah. Internet sales seem to be working pretty well in a lot of the Asian markets. Some places one might a lower cost of living playing a part, but some of the Japanese guys, like the guy who did Mahouka, suggest otherwise. I gather the guy who did Moonlight Sculptor is going to do esales of the translation through Amazon.

I think we all can build a comparable English language market with enough hard work and love.

A.Nagy
Guest
A.Nagy
1 year 8 months ago
Some people have made webnovels work in the west. Web comics are generally more successful. But check out wildbow and his Worm/Pact/Twig stuff it’s really good stuff and he makes good money just though paypal donations. Everything he writes is up for free on his site. But yes Asian markets they have gone a lot more indie friendly as of late. Korea has Naver which promotes a bunch of different works and pays in ad revenue I believe. Japan’s light novels just ruthlessly pick from popular webnovels and throw an editor at them then serialize that and if it’s popular… Read more »
Wilson Geiger
Guest
Wilson Geiger
1 year 8 months ago

I will tell you that I was very close to doing the same. If I hadn’t found this group, and others like them, I may well have. When I saw how authors that I used to look up to were acting, it hard to imagine being included among them.

Now? I’m writing with a purpose. I no longer want to be a part of them. I don’t have to be, because SFF isn’t theirs.

Shadowdancer
Guest
Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago
Yeah, this group? They’re really good at giving people hope. Some of my friends encouraged me to join, because I was so deep into depression after my son’s stillbirth in 2013, they rarely saw me online anymore. I lurked, then joined in, and the majority of the folks here didn’t know about my loss. Baen’s fantasy story contest encouraged me to write my first all-original story, and while I didn’t win, I got the guts to self-publish it from the folks here. When I lost Brandon to SIDS a couple of months ago, they’ve been instrumental in keeping me from… Read more »
Brian Niemeier
Guest
Brian Niemeier
1 year 8 months ago
Sanguinius, buddy, don’t quit five feet from the finish line. This is the best time in the history of the universe to be a writer! The Torlings’ enormities are a reaction against the revolution currently underway in genre publishing. For centuries, writers had to bend the knee to patrons, publishers, and gatekeepers. For the last 100 years we had to work our fingers to the bone for take-it-or-leave-it contracts that ceded most of our rights and most of the profits from exploiting those rights–forever. The big NYC publishers lorded their power over us like we were serfs on their manor.… Read more »
Guest
Jeff Duntemann
1 year 8 months ago

Sanguinius35: There is more than one community. You’re already part of a sort of “shadow fandom” that has everything the other guys do except cons and awards. (And those may happen eventually.)

As for quitting, well, friends don’t let friends stop writing. Persevere. Or you’ll hear from us!

David Lang
Guest
David Lang
1 year 8 months ago

not that I’ve been able to attend, but I get the feeling that LibertyCon is significantly different in outlook than most of the other cons. Unfortunately since I run a fireworks show on July 4, taking the time in June for something like that just isn’t in the cards for a while.

richard mcenroe
Guest
richard mcenroe
1 year 8 months ago

Don’t give them the satisfaction, San. Write, and spite the devil.

Curtis
Guest
Curtis
1 year 8 months ago

I thought the post at Shadowdancer Studios by R.K Modena was fantastic. Thanks for pointing me there. I’d have replied on her page but neither WordPress or Diary comments appear to be working for me. I get an endless loop to log-in.

Shadowdancer
Guest
Shadowdancer
1 year 8 months ago

I’ve copied your comment over to Aff and let him know. He says the forums should work fine.

edit: I’ve checked the post at Shadowdancer Studios and there’s been at least one comment left there.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

The stupid is strong with this one:

http://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/396l6g/i_stand_by_irene_gallo_terribleminds_chuck_wendig/

“Terrorist tactics” and apparently we’ve created “bots”.

richard mcenroe
Guest
richard mcenroe
1 year 8 months ago

(Click) All right, (Click)I confess. (Click) I’m a bot (Click). I was(Click) created (Click) and stole the (Click) purloined OPM internet addresses (Click)just to practice cyberwar on (Click) defenseless social (Click) justice warriors (Click) and Tor employees. (Click) In fact as you (Click) read this(Click) I am busy (Click) sending all Tor’s confidential employee (Click) information to (Click) Nigerian financial-minister scammers (Click) Alex Jones mailing lists (Click) and Chinese mail order (Click) bride websites. (Click) Thank you for the loan of your bandwith and social media (Click) links.

RedJack
Guest
RedJack
1 year 8 months ago
There is a view held by some that because they live in New York City, they are the rulers and elite of all in their field. I have ran into this on occasion in mine, though happily in engineering the bigger question is always “Did it work?” I have worked in several multinational companies. Statements like we have been seeing the last week are pretty rare. The one time I did see them, while working for a huge company, it was a prelude to an attempted coup to unseat an executive. It didn’t work. I honestly feel sorry for Mr… Read more »
David Lang
Guest
David Lang
1 year 8 months ago
James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago
“Rachel Dolezal ‏@racheldolezaI 15h15 hours ago @martinbutts @benshapiro YOU GUYS WORDS HAVE NO EFFECT ON ME. IM BLACK AND PROUD” “Rachel Dolezal ‏@racheldolezaI 16h16 hours ago BLACK WOMEN LIKE ME GET HARASSED ALL THE TIME” “Rachel Dolezal ‏@racheldolezaI 17h17 hours ago I AM BLACK” The entire intersectionalist movement is so insane I couldn’t tell whether this was a prank, but it’s not. SFF authors Tobias Buckell and the half-Irish Saladin Ahmed have been selling this lark for years in order to ingratiate themselves with the intersectional SF movement and advance their “street cred.” Neither looks remotely black or Arab. So… Read more »
Synova
Guest
Synova
1 year 8 months ago

HOnest to god, no one cares about Rachel Dolezal.

James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago
Are you kidding? The web is going nuts. One reason is because the craziest gender feminists pushing this men saying “I’m a woman if I say so” are having to backtrack like crazy because the entire basis of their ideology is being attacked. Great. I’m black if I say so. Men saying they are women closed down the 40 yr. old lesbian MichFest music festival with ideological attacks on lesbian radical feminism. In other words Frankenstein was attacked by his monster. Eventually something similar will happen in SFF. Older feminists were just ousted from WisCon over stuff like this. It… Read more »
Synova
Guest
Synova
1 year 8 months ago

It’s big because of Bruce Jenner. Who is only interesting because of the Kardashians. Lord help me I have no idea why THEY are interesting.

James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago

They are transinteresting who feel they were born interesting in the wrong boring bodies and have appropriated the experiences of people who are actually interesting.

richard mcenroe
Guest
richard mcenroe
1 year 8 months ago

I thought about joining the intersectionalist movement. Unfortunately, when I considered with which cultures I have the greatest experience and understanding, I would have had to self-identify as a bottle of Shiner Bock…

richard mcenroe
Guest
richard mcenroe
1 year 8 months ago

Rachel last night: “Fuckit. I quit.”

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

Meanwhile in the File 770 comments, “JJ” just accused Sarah Hoyt of not understanding America because she’s an immigrant.

Progressive!

James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago

Did you mean “transimmigrant”? And File 770 needs to learn some of us prefer the term “transpuppy” and our pronouns are “thou” and “meesa.”

analogkid
Guest
analogkid
1 year 8 months ago

Sarah Hoyt is a proud transamerican and JJ needs to check his cisamerican privilege.

James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago

Meesa alla-transamerican in college hockey 3 years running.

Arwen
Guest
Arwen
1 year 8 months ago

Sarah Hoyt is more of an American than many people who were born here.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago
Synova
Guest
Synova
1 year 8 months ago

“I finally watched John Wick today. Now there is a man who knows how to take a stand against Puppy Related Sadness.” (From Larry on Twitter… which I don’t do… just wanted to say…)

OMG, I think I hurt myself. And it’s just a matter of pure luck that I didn’t spray Dr. Pepper out my NOSE.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

Might want to keep an eye on Peter Grant’s blog the next few days.

http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.ca/2015/06/most-interesting.html

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago
TallDave
Guest
TallDave
1 year 8 months ago

Your priorities seem to be in order. The other side is emoting, not reasoning, which is why they’ve repeatedly embarassed themselves, and you cannot reason someone out of that which they’ve emoted into.

“Media coverage of the two groups initially suggested that they were organized simply to promote white men, which was not correct.”

Someday a more civilized people of the future will look back on this strange little incident and ask why promoting white men qua white men would have been objectionable even if true.

James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago

On tonight’s podcast, I ask white SJW SFF authors how many PoC live within 5 miles of them, with hilarious results, hot denials, claims of “gotcha” interviews and red faces all around.

Bah
Guest
Bah
1 year 8 months ago

Honest answer: “as few as possible!”
What they will say: “I moved here for the great schools and the attractive lifestyle. It is purely a coincidence that no PoC live nearby. But I love diversity! There are several great ethnic restaurants just up the street!”

jsf001
Guest
jsf001
1 year 8 months ago

So how did you manage to trick SJW’s into talking with you?

James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago

Cornrows, a stylish dress and a tanning salon.

jsf001
Guest
jsf001
1 year 8 months ago

Impressive, I did not think SJW’s actually talked to each other, but rather just repeated the random things they heard other SJW’s say. Your SJW call must be very impressive? Were you using the classic “Help! Help! I am being oppressed!” or a newer one?

richard mcenroe
Guest
richard mcenroe
1 year 8 months ago

I think he fooled them by claiming to self-identify as a neurotic moron. Blended right in.

James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago

Acting like a moron isn’t that much of a stretch for me.

analogkid
Guest
analogkid
1 year 8 months ago

Can’t tell whether this is self-deprecation or someone else using the same name for mockery, but I suspect the latter.

richard mcenroe
Guest
richard mcenroe
1 year 8 months ago

Gawker’s got its own problems right now, with its sex-tape lawsuit finally going to trial. Could be a self-correcting problem.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

Been a while since we had any comic relief from The Guardian’s Village Idiot:

“Damien Walter ‏@damiengwalter · 12h12 hours ago
Same is true of all the Sad Puppies. Crap writers who’ve formed a confederacy of dunces to get their crap writing noticed.”

Puppies have novels. How’s yours coming, Damo?

Joe in PNG
Guest
Joe in PNG
1 year 8 months ago

Probably why he has never finished his.

richard mcenroe
Guest
richard mcenroe
1 year 8 months ago

He’s waiting for his government grant to come through. Gosh darn that David Cameron to heck anyway.

Zsuzsa
Guest
Zsuzsa
1 year 8 months ago

Okay, now I’m picturing Phil, the Prince of Insufficient Light from the Dilbert comics, visiting 10 Downing Street…

James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago
I’m not surprised Walter made noises about all of old SFF and Larry being racist. I saw him mention a book which was a harsh critique of specific female and male feminists by name. He called it a book about “women” and implied the writer was a bigot. He ignored an actual reality and made up a book out of his head. From there he went on to say the community shouldn’t have to deal with such people. What do you do with a mind like that? He thinks he speaks some daffy “truth to power” but in fact all… Read more »
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[…] a great deal bigger than mine, including John C. Wright’s, Mike Glyer’s File 770, and Monster Hunter Nation, egad. Now you’re all probably wondering why I haven’t posted anything new since May […]

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[…] re-linked, and mentioned in lots of other places – a response I honestly did not expect. Larry Correia linked it, Sarah Hoyt linked it, Peter Grant linked it, Cedar Sanderson did as well… […]

James May
Guest
James May
1 year 8 months ago
“Correia’s original point has not been proven at all. Just the reverse. “What has been proven is that if you act like an asshole, people will treat you like an asshole. You can’t barge into the chess club, knock over all the boards, scatter the pieces, and expect to be given trophies and welcomed.” – GRRM Really? Tell that to N. K. (“racist as fuck”) Jemisin and her 4 Nebula nominations. I’m trying to imagine me going into rap culture, calling them a bunch of racists and winning Spirit Awards. Aliette de Bodard becomes five-time nominated, two-time winner of the… Read more »
Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

His tone has changed. Maybe people complained he was too reasonable last time. There’s not much difference between Martin’s latest statement and your average rant by Luhrs or Hurley.

Doug Loss
Guest
Doug Loss
1 year 8 months ago

You have to remember, he didn’t get the overwhelming moral win he assumed he’d get by taking on us unwashed. So since he was unsuccessful at putting the churls in their places, he now has to hurl a bit more invective at them.

60guilders
Guest
60guilders
1 year 8 months ago

I wonder if Martin has figured out that that’s how we think of most of the ASPs.
Meantime, our situation is more like: We showed up, got called names, responded.

Kary English
Guest
Kary English
1 year 8 months ago

Hey, Puppies – C’mon over and talk about books!

http://karyenglish.com/2015/06/dear-puppies-please-talk-about-what-you-love/

Wes S.
Guest
Wes S.
1 year 8 months ago

Done! Hope you enjoyed my suggestions…

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 8 months ago

Yes, it’s nice to get away from the Hugo Wars for a while.

Kary English
Guest
Kary English
1 year 7 months ago

Thanks to you both and everyone else who commented! And yeah, it’s nice to have a break. 🙂

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 7 months ago

“Cora Buhlert ‏@CoraBuhlert · 3h3 hours ago  Free Hanseatic City of Bremen, Germany
@eilatan @SpacefaringK For such a fan-focussed publisher, Baen authors are surprisingly dismissive of mere fans, particular Wrongfans TM.”

Oh, Frau Butthurt, the Sad Puppies call THEMSELVES “wrongfans”. 😀

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[…] this guy decided to “attack” the Sad Puppies by admitting everything we’ve been saying is true.  I commented there, but figured I’d […]

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