Monster Hunter Nation
Elmdorprime
Guest
Elmdorprime
1 year 11 months ago

Woohoo! Although, quick question for other voters – if there’s only an excerpt available for a work that you haven’t read outside the packet (I presume, probably foolishly, to be the case for at least one of the novels) how are you handling that? Reading the sample and then buying the work if you like it or voting based on the sample alone?

jaed
Guest
jaed
1 year 11 months ago

Library or buy. I don’t think it’s possible to evaluate a novel based on just an excerpt. You get a taste of the writing, but you don’t get the whole plot arc and the nature of the resolution, and you need that to judge a work of fiction.

Achillea
Guest
Achillea
1 year 11 months ago

I judge by whatever’s in the packet. If it’s not a complete story, I rate accordingly.

Shadowdancer
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I haven’t read the excerpts yet, but I’m going to guess that they included enough for a reader to be able to judge by.

I already owned Skin Game, so the only novel excerpt I’ll be reading out of the novel nominations is Ancillary.

Lockestep
Guest
Lockestep
1 year 11 months ago

Ancillary is one of the two novels in excerpt mode.

Eric Weder
Guest
Eric Weder
1 year 11 months ago

Ancillary Justice/Sword are available on Kindle for not a bunch of money. I bought both and glad I did. Justice starts out as a tough read but either I got into the writer’s headspace or she backed it off – I never realized which. Looking forward to Sword. If it is comparable then it deserved the nomination.

I haven’t figured out the library thing – always get distracted by what’s on the shelf so I forget to reserve books.

Lea
Guest
Lea
1 year 11 months ago

I haven’t figured out the library thing – always get distracted by what’s on the shelf so I forget to reserve books.

At my library you can do it online and they just call you when the book is in/available…

Shawna
Guest
Shawna
1 year 11 months ago
I’m in this situation as well. Ancillary has the first, like, 100 pages. My policy in reading the nominees is that I’ll give them the same chance I give any book I read for fun. Which is to say, if I just can’t stand it at some point, I stop reading and put it at the bottom of the list when voting. With Ancillary, I intend to read the excerpt, and if I get to the end of it and it hasn’t made me DNF and I’m still interested enough to read more, I’ll find a way to get my… Read more »
Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago
TV episodes: The Flash is the pilot, so that one’s easy. I think you can get the gist of the Grimm episode if you’ve watched one or two episodes of the show. Ditto for the Dr Who episode. (I haven’t really watched Dr Who in years, but I didn’t have much trouble following it.) For Orphan Black and Game of Thrones, I think you’re kind of stuck. The big draw of the Game of Thrones episode is the fight scene at the end, which I think you CAN understand without having watched the show before. It’s pretty much the best… Read more »
Shawna
Guest
Shawna
1 year 11 months ago
I watch Grimm, so that one’s not a problem. I’ve seen enough Doctor Who (though not with the current Doctor) that I think I’ll follow it well enough. I’ve only seen the first couple episodes of GoT, but there’s no way I’m going to try to binge watch four seasons just for one ep. I know nothing about Orphan Black, so maybe I’ll try your suggestion and watch the pilot first to see if I think it’s worth binge watching. If I can do so for free–which it looks like I can since the first two seasons are free with… Read more »
Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago
I think that’s up to the individual voter. Obviously, I think that shows that work well as a stand-alone work will have an edge, because not everyone will have watched the entire series of a show that has a phenomenal “chapter”. I happen to be up on both Orphan Black and Game of Thrones, so I judged them in the context of a larger work (and really, both of the shows have so much backstory that it’s impossible to judge the nominated works as stand-alone works). I don’t follow Grimm or Dr Who, so I judged them as stand-alone works,… Read more »
Shawna
Guest
Shawna
1 year 10 months ago

After watching most of the TV eps and seeing that some of them stand alone much better than others, it kinda seems to me like the “short form” category (and why do they use “short form” and “long form” when they really mean “TV episode” and “movie”?) is kind of like having a category for “best chapter of a novel”. With TV the way it is these days, you don’t really get true standalone episodes like you used to. With some of the shows, this is even more pronounced.

Beolach
Guest
Beolach
1 year 10 months ago
For the 2004 Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form Hugo Award, “Gollum’s Acceptance Speech at the 2003 MTV Movie Awards” was both nominated & won. So they don’t only mean “TV episode” and “movie” – those are just what dominate the categories. In the past radio dramas were also included in Dramatic Presentation. And in the 2013 Hugo nominations, Mary Robinette Kowal’s “The Lady Astronaut of Mars” received enough nominations for the Best Novelette category, but as it was only published in audiobook form in 2012 that year’s WorldCon Hugo committee disqualified it, stating that it would have been eligible for… Read more »
Beolach
Guest
Beolach
1 year 11 months ago
I’d actually like to see the current “Dramatic Presentation (Long Form)” renamed to “(Medium Form)” & capped at 4~5 hours, and have a new “(Long Form)” for >5 hours. So “(Short Form)” for individual TV episodes on their own, “(Medium Form)” for feature length theatrical movies, and “(Long Form)” for full TV series w/ longer story arcs. I actually had similar thoughts about some of the Novelettes (“Championship B’tok”, “The Journeyman: In the Stone House”) – to me they feel very much like chapters/subsections/episodes of a larger work. Which I actually like; my taste generally prefers longer fiction over shorter… Read more »
Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago
@Beolach The problem I see with creating an award for a new Long Form is that most network shows start in the fall and end in the spring, so they cover two different calendar years. I think you’d have to have a rule that says you can only nominate shows for a season in the year that the season ends. It’s do-able, but it’ll be a bit confusing for people who watch shows in real time as opposed to binge-watching them, because they’re going to have to remember which season they’re voting for. (In other words, you won’t be voting… Read more »
Beolach
Guest
Beolach
1 year 11 months ago
@Frank Probst, this situation is already addressed, for all Hugo Award categories, by Section 3.2: General of the WSFS constituion: 3.2.2: A work shall not be eligible if in a prior year it received sufficient nominations to appear on the final award ballot. … 3.2.4: Works appearing in a series are eligible as individual works, but the series as a whole is not eligible. However, a work appearing in a number of parts shall be eligible for the year of the final part. So a complete TV season/series that aired its first X episodes in 2014, and the last Y… Read more »
Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago

@Beolach

On the plus side, I think this would favor non-network shows with shorter seasons (10-12 episodes) rather than network shows with longer seasons (~24 episodes). As an example, I’d say, “Which one would you vote for, Season #1 of The Flash (which was a much-better-than-average superhero show) or Season #1 of Daredevil (which was just flat-out phenomenal).”

Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago
@Beolach That’s sort of the problem, though. The nominations process is completely open, so the people who run the show have little control over whether or not an individual show gets nominated one year, which could disqualify the entire series for the next year. Thus, a network show like The Flash, which was nominated for one show this year, would be ineligible for a nomination for the entire season next year. Non-network shows have an edge–if the whole season aired in one year, and say, Daredevil gets nominated for both the pilot (Short Form) and the entire season (Long Form)… Read more »
Synova
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I can’t imagine how it could be possible to judge a novel from an excerpt… oh, jaed already said exactly what I was going to say…

Novels build… they climax… they have resolutions.

Excerpts can’t.

Geez Louise… I’ve got 100 pages of something somewhere that people could use to judge my *prose*…. and frankly, I’m sure it’s as good as anyone’s out there… but they couldn’t judge my ability to provide a stellar pay-off because I’ve never *gotten* to that part!

Giving out excerpts is *cheap*. Why even bother?

Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago
Larry may know the answer to this. (Or maybe he won’t.) I don’t know how much of this decision belongs to the author versus the publisher. If I were the author, I’d want the whole book released, even though I know I’m going to lose some money by doing so. The publisher may simply be unwilling to lose any money, so if it’s their decision, then it makes more sense to me. I’ve seen several long-time WorldCon members chide newer folks like me that the voter’s packet is a privilege, not a right, and you shouldn’t expect it. Okay. My… Read more »
Expendable Henchman
Guest
Expendable Henchman
1 year 11 months ago

You “Know” you’d lose money by releasing the whole novel?

I refer you to The Baen Free Library.

PS: Crack dealers don’t lose money by giving away the first hit for free.

PPS: MHI is now free at Amazon. I’m very doubtful that Larry would be advertising anything that contradicts the most fundamental law of authoring “Get Paid”

Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago
Let me clarify: In the case of a Hugo nomination, you’ll PROBABLY lose money, since you’re giving away something that first appeared last year. In other words, you’re giving away your NEWEST novel, NOT the first book in a series. You MIGHT end up getting people to go back and buy the earlier books in the series, or other books that you’ve written, but you’re already dealing with a group of people that’s probably aware of your prior work. If you WIN the Hugo for your novel, you may get a bump in sales of the book, in which case… Read more »
Joe Sherry
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I plan to grab Skin Game from my local public library, so that will take care of the novels (I’ve already read Ancillary Sword).

But, something like Letters from Gardner will have to be evaluated based on the provided excerpt as my library will not have it and it does not appear to be something I would wish to spend money on, though I could be wrong whenever I finish the excerpt.

C. S. P. Schofield
Guest
C. S. P. Schofield
1 year 11 months ago

Interlibrary loan can often get you the most obscure stuff. It isn’t expensive, and using it seems to make Librarians think well of you.

Joe Sherry
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I use the in state interlibrary loan frequently, but very seldom do the out of state please find me this book somewhere anywhere search at all. Generally it just doesn’t seem worth it for what I’m reading, plus when it gets to that point, I can often just ask the library to buy the book.

But I can find nearly everything I want via my county library + in state ILL.

Rick Ewald
Guest
Rick Ewald
1 year 11 months ago

There you go again telling us how to vote. 😉
(At least that is what the SJWs will say)

Thomas Monaghan
Guest
Thomas Monaghan
1 year 11 months ago

The Skin Game excerpt has a 3 inch by 2 inch Penguin watermark that shows up on every page. Yuck!

Bjlinden
Guest
Bjlinden
1 year 11 months ago

You forgot to tell us not to set small animals on fire, you monster. Why do you hate small animals?

Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago
I plan to vote just based on the excerpt. Ranking Skin Game will be tough for me, because I watched all of The Dresden Files TV shows, but I haven’t read any of the books. For anyone who HASN’T bought a supporting membership, the packet is probably worth more than $40. You get four full novels (Wesley Chu’s submission for the Campbell one of his novels.), excerpts of Skin Game and Ancillary Sword, a bunch of short fiction, more artwork than you can shake a stick at, and several podcasts. You probably won’t finish it all by the deadline, so… Read more »
Guest
Wyrdbard
1 year 11 months ago

I’m going to try and finish it all by the deadline. I’m a pretty quick reader if I can find the time, but yeah. It definitely looks worth the purchase price on content alone. *off to read*

CoffeeTime
Guest
CoffeeTime
1 year 11 months ago
I thought The Dresden Files TV series did a great job of extracting the core story from the novels and cutting it down to episode length. I also thought they did justice to Harry and Murphy. Evaluating any novel in a series out of its context has its problems, but this one may present fewer than you might expect. You haven’t met Mab, and you don’t know what Harry’s decisions were that led up to his service to her. You haven’t met Nicodemus either, but his background and character is less subtle. The really good news is that the bulk… Read more »
Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago

I plan to read the excerpt, and I enjoyed the show, but I had one really big problem with it: Why does he advertise himself as a wizard if he’s never allowed to talk to Murphy about magic? It was one of those contradictions that always bothered me.

Murgy
Guest
Murgy
1 year 11 months ago

In the novels, she eventually get’s let in on the secret, but (IIRC) it’s basically; Humans are dumb & stupid, but if you spook them, they get panicky, and start Inquisitions, and burnings and suchlike. So, For The Good Of Wizard-Kind – No Spooking The Cattle!

Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago

The show seemed to be going in that direction, but it never got there. I think I would have enjoyed their interactions much more if she was “in on” the “secret”.

bjlinden
Guest
bjlinden
1 year 11 months ago
In the books, the White Council doesn’t have any specific prohibitions on revealing magic to people. The other laws of magic tend to create an environment where wizards generally wouldn’t WANT mortals at large to know about them, (i.e. if you can’t use magic to kill or control minds, you PROBABLY don’t want any inquisitions springing up) but the fact that wizards generally don’t reveal themselves is more of a gentleman’s agreement and just general prudence and good sense than an actual enforced rule. The rest of the White Council thinks Harry’s an idiot for advertising openly, but he’s not… Read more »
Expendable Henchman
Guest
Expendable Henchman
1 year 11 months ago

The Dresden-verse has a specific self-defense exception to the ‘kill with magic’ law. Which is why Harry is still over 6 feet tall. And breathing.

His trial was about if it was really self-defense, else he wouldn’t have got probation.

Brian
Guest
Brian
1 year 11 months ago

No, the Dresdenverse has no self-defense exception to the First Law, “thou shalt not kill with magic.” It’s a recurring plot point that there are no exceptions because even well intentioned violations of the laws of magic are corrupting (unless done with the Darkstaff, which absorbs the corruption). That’s the reason the Wardens use swords and Harry uses guns.

The law only applies to mortals, though, not to fae, demons, vampires, or other supernatural beings, which is why Harry frequently roasts or freezes that kind of enemy.

Beolach
Guest
Beolach
1 year 11 months ago

@Brian: Yes, there is a self-defense exception. Before the beginning of the first book, Harry Dresden killed Justin DuMorne with magic. It was explicitly because it was in self-defense (& Ebenezer McCoy vouched for him) that Harry wasn’t executed, and was “only” placed under the Doom of Damocles (with McCoy). They generally don’t allow/accept the exception, but it does exist.

Synova
Guest
1 year 11 months ago
“In general, the series relies very heavily on the idea that humans in general refuse to acknowledge things that fall outside of their worldview,…” True story… When I was very small my neighbors had elephants and quite some time earlier one had died so they bulldozed a hill over it. Since complete elephant skeletons are hard to come by in Minnesota some scientists from Minneapolis (a museum or university or both) came to dig it up. So my Mom took us kids over to see what they were up to. The scientists had a turtle with them. My mom told… Read more »
Clint
Guest
Clint
1 year 11 months ago

He’s allowed to — he’s just bought into the whole wizardly secrecy thing really heavily at the beginning.

One of the big themes/character growth opportunities of the first three books is Harry trying to protect people by keeping them in the dark, and that blowing up spectacularly. He learns his lesson.

bjlinden
Guest
bjlinden
1 year 11 months ago

I dunno, the TV series was fun in its own way, and it got the personalities of Harry and Murphy down relatively well, but it’s SO dramatically different from the books that I don’t think it’ll help to understand the story very much. Personally, I’d say going into Skin Game after watching the TV series is about the same as going into Skin Game blind.

FORTUNATELY, Skin Game is enough of a fun, self-contained heist story that I think you can go into it blind with no problems whatsoever.

Expendable Henchman
Guest
Expendable Henchman
1 year 11 months ago
Some large differences between the books and movies: Harry would NEVER have sex with a Red Court vampire in the books. They’re very similar to MHI vamps. Bob The Skull was NEVER human in the books. He is an artificial intelligence (created by magic) and utterly sociopathic, just like your computer. He is a thinking magic library and research assistant with a perfect memory and centuries of experience. Bob knows the concept of right and wrong, but was never wired to appreciate it. He tries to act good to keep Harry happy with him, but often cannot understand and will… Read more »
Mike
Guest
Mike
1 year 11 months ago

When Harry meets with Bob in his skull (Bob’s, not Harry’s) during the ghost novel, Harry is in human form.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 11 months ago

“everyone should read the nominations and vote honestly”

Your weasely, dog-whistle dudebro code doesn’t fool me! I know that you *really* mean “suppress the vote of female and minority Hugo voters”. And any minorities or women who pop up to dispute that are just tokens and human shields! 😉

Pogonip
Guest
Pogonip
1 year 11 months ago

Yeah, you’re not supposed to read the item, Larry, you dolt–you’re supposed to look at the author’s picture and then vote! Unless he’s a big old brownish Portuguese guy and then you should–oh, hell, just read the item. It’s easier.

Zsuzsa
Guest
Zsuzsa
1 year 11 months ago
The author’s picture gives some good clues as to whether you should vote for that work or not, but it isn’t enough. You need to do an internet search and make sure that the author is full of rightthink–or at the very least, not wrongthink. I believe the correct ranking is as follows: 1) Woman or dark-skinned man or white man claiming to be gay who is also a social justice warrior. 2) Straight white male social justice warrior or woman or dark-skinned man of unknown politics (these are more or less tied). 3) Straight white males of unknown politics.… Read more »
James May
Guest
1 year 11 months ago
Well, that’s the silly irony in all this, isn’t it. SJW lit is just a distorted reversed out mirror of some Apartheid one-drop color coding. That’s why I think it so funny these people think they can write SF or a dystopia. They are a dystopia. Their version of “The Marching Morons” would look much like Burroughs, Heinlein and Vance. Guess who they go after as a sign of crumbling intellect and justice? Burroughs, Heinlein and Vance. You’ll notice that when they recently did some short satires about the Puppies all they really did was accurately depict themselves without a… Read more »
Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 11 months ago

Well, my above comment was quoted at File 770. I was named, sandwiched between Larry Correia and John Scalzi. How often does that happen?

I do hope that Glyer realized the context of my statement, and didn’t think it was actually a paranoid condemnation of Larry.

Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago

The Editor categories are the ones I have the most trouble with. I really have no idea how to vote on those. How does everyone else handle those two?

Kathryn
Guest
Kathryn
1 year 11 months ago

I tweeted Larry about that late yesterday – wondering how a reader can assess an editor based purely on the finished product. He replied this morning to say he thinks it’s impossible, so it essentially becomes a body of work popularity contest.

I personally am going to abstain in those categories as I don’t feel I can honestly assess them. Another way you could do it, if you are committed to making the best informed vote possible, would be to look for testimonials from the associated writers and others in the industry.

Khazlek
Guest
Khazlek
1 year 11 months ago
Short form is really a vote for the magazine or anthology that the nominee edited. I haven’t downloaded the packet yet, but they usually give you a sample magazine issue to judge by. I think long form is silly because the only person qualified to judge would be an author who was edited by all of the editor candidates, that year and I doubt that such a person exists. Kevin Standlee gave my answer for short form but suggests that the long form award is really a “best publisher award”, but he himself doesn’t know what to do if two… Read more »
Beolach
Guest
Beolach
1 year 11 months ago

Kathryn & Khazlek have good answers, the one thing I’ll add is that if you don’t feel sufficiently informed in a category, it’s reasonable to leave it blank on your ballot.

If you look at last year’s full statistics (PDF), you can see that the “Total Votes” in the different categories can vary widely: up to 3137 for Best Novel, down to 1177 for Best Fancast. So last year almost 2 in 3 ballots were submitted w/ Best Novel filled in (at least partially), but w/ Best Fancast left completely empty.

Clint
Guest
Clint
1 year 11 months ago

Agreed. I’d love to see an author okay the publication of a before-and-after story. (See: Shadows Beneath, for four authors doing this and including transcripts of their brainstorming and workshopping. Really good idea.)

I’m definitely going to be leaving some categories blank.

Curtis Bacon
Guest
Curtis Bacon
1 year 11 months ago

I hope Mr. Correia doesn’t mind but I am attempting a small version of the Sad Puppies campaign myself. I regularly post on a sports website called Realgm(mainly basketball) that has a section dedicated to current events(titled Current Affairs). This section is overwhelming liberal so to balance things out(or outright takeover 🙂 I am asking fellow conservatives to sign up and begin posting there..
Here is where you would begin to register
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/ucp.php?mode=register.
And Mr. Correia I do apologize if this is something you don’t wish on your website and would understand if you deleted this post

viktor
Guest
viktor
1 year 11 months ago

Some nice surprises:

Campbell Award has a couple complete novels
Editor – Short Form has two complete anthologies.

jack
Guest
jack
1 year 11 months ago

OT
I finished Residue by Steve Diamond and just gave it five stars over at Amazon. Unfortunately, I have to now wait maybe a year for the sequels to start. Darn.

CoffeeTime
Guest
CoffeeTime
1 year 11 months ago
Little story that seems to fit here. I used to use the Hugos as a suggested reading list when I was younger and scavenging second-hand book shops (I miss second-hand book shops.) Historical Hugos, of course, since I could buy double the amount of second-hand books for the cost of new ones. 😛 I gradually parted company with the Hugos over the late 90s, I think. I had caught up with the classics, and too many of the new books they promoted disappointed me. It’s hard to nail it down. I remember knowing that Memory didn’t get the award. I… Read more »
Nathan
Guest
Nathan
1 year 11 months ago

If you’re into audiobooks, try Murder on the Orient Elite over at Audible for your Grimnoir fix. Jake’s back for a short story.

CoffeeTime
Guest
CoffeeTime
1 year 11 months ago

Thanks! It looks like when my Hugo packet comes through I’ll have reading for the next week or so anyway, but I do see more Correia titles on Amazon…

Beolach
Guest
Beolach
1 year 11 months ago

Bronson Pinchot is absolutely brilliant doing the readings for the Grimnoir books (including the Audible exclusive Murder on the Orient Elite). It’s well worth looking through all his other narrated works in Audible.

There’s also Detroit Christmas available for free from Baen. Also free in Audio Drama form in the Baen Free Radio Hour podcast.

Expendable Henchman
Guest
Expendable Henchman
1 year 11 months ago

Welcome to the Special Hell for Speed Readers. Your favorite authors are at least 100 times slower than your reading ability…

Yes, Larry has said that more Grimnoir novels are on the way. There are also more MHI on the way, as Larry has kids to put through college, just like Jim Butcher.

I think Larry’s on contract for 16 future books right now. If you’re counting, Jim Butcher is working on #16 of 24ish Dresden books.

Shadowdancer
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

It’s not intentional; I find myself at the end and am surprised there are no more pages!

trackback

[…] “Hugo Voter Packet now available for download” – May 20 […]

Shadowdancer
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I’d looked at the indexes of the mentioned anthologies, and skimmed a bit. They look like a very solid set of good stories, which I would not mind owning in physical form. The novels will be the last bunch of things I’ll read as they’re the longest. I think it’s VERY generous though to have complete books included for the anthologies; and the full novels were a nice surprise. Well worth the money spent.

Fruitbat44
Guest
Fruitbat44
1 year 11 months ago
“It should go without saying, but apparently I need to plainly state the blatantly obvious, everyone should read the nominations and vote honestly.” Sad that the obvious should need saying, but often it doesn’t hurt to state it. And FWIW I like to think that awards like the Hugos are the best of both worlds. Both worlds? Either awards are chosen by committees of experts who know and understand the genre, but you’re left with the feeling that the award goes to the book they all dislike the least. Or the awards are decided by popular vote, and you’re left… Read more »
trackback

[…] This is rather rich coming from the man who wanted to destroy the Hugos: […]

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 11 months ago

Ah, Martin Wisse, we meet again at last.

“First you sh*t the bed, then you scold everybody else for wanting to clean the sheets.”

Keep it classy, Mr. Wisse.

S1AL
Guest
S1AL
1 year 11 months ago

They think they’re being incredibly clever with the “puppies make messes” jokes, even after the thousandth iteration. That should tell you something.

James May
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Conformist rednecks.

S1AL
Guest
S1AL
1 year 11 months ago

Somewhere, out there, there’s a redneck who’s very insulted at being lumped into such a category.

James May
Guest
1 year 11 months ago
The pony-tailed Wisse reminds me of when a carload of redneck cowboy types with the hats and everything tried to run me over while hitch-hiking cuz I had really long hair. It reminded me of that scene at the end of Easy Rider where the guy’s blown off his bike for baddress by some rednecks in a pick-up truck. Then you have country western artists later given awards and they all have long hair and pony-tails. I’m reading Mr. Ponytail’s words, and he’s a redneck who once read the words of a hippie. He parrots the words but loses the… Read more »
60guilders
Guest
60guilders
1 year 11 months ago

Such folk are not even rednecks. Rednecks provide value to society, in between their extracurricular activities.
Such folk are what was referred to, in an earlier day, as “trash.”

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 11 months ago

Come on, show some respect. Wisse was up all night dreaming up that clever bon mot. 😉

James May
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

That would be far more impressive if I knew what SJWs like him mean by the word “racist.”

Pogonip
Guest
Pogonip
1 year 11 months ago

It’s fungible, depending on the poutrage du jour.

Expendable Henchman
Guest
Expendable Henchman
1 year 11 months ago

“racist” = “You won the argument, but I still hate you and all white males”

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 11 months ago

I notice at James Nicoll’s that Mr. Wisse is throwing his support behind the idea of a Razzie-style award for the worst SF of the year. And of course, such a thing would almost certainly become a tool by which the CHORFs would automatically smear the Puppies and our favorite works.

Of course, there is not one damned thing they could do from stopping Puppies from getting involved in the SF Razzies and voting on what *we* think is the worst SF of the year, now is there?

Careful what you wish for, Wisse and Nicoll. Be very, VERY careful. 😉

jaed
Guest
jaed
1 year 11 months ago

You’re assuming the SF-Razzies would be open to all SF fans, rather than a carefully selected subset. Since they have now realized that it’s dangerous to permit Wrongfans to vote on awards (after all, They might vote for the wrong things, and we can’t have that sort of uppity behavior from Them), I am assuming that if someone does this, it will be either a juried award or done with some way of controlling the electorate.

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
1 year 11 months ago

It’s not like the idea is new. I’ve thought of it myself. Problem is, to do a Razzie right requires actual wit, something that I, and from the looks of it, Mr. Wisse, both lack.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 11 months ago

They make it closed, they prove our point. They make it open, they risk us having a say. Might be wiser not to do it at all.

Achillea
Guest
Achillea
1 year 11 months ago

I’ve downloaded my packet and am going to start reading. Just as soon as I’m done running across the road without looking. With scissors.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 11 months ago

Not sure where to put this:

“N. K. Jemisin ‏@nkjemisin · 3h3 hours ago
Apparently Larry Correia was an asshole at Gencon? Panelist of color describes ugly interaction.”

No details, of course.

60guilders
Guest
60guilders
1 year 11 months ago

I imagine it was an ugly interaction. Being hit with a clue tetsubo tends to leave blood spatter.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 11 months ago

I am suspicious that it took nearly a year for this to surface.

BTW, “panelist of color”? The only people I’ve known who were this obsessed with race were racists. Just saying.

Synova
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I was sort of curious about how I’d missed anyone talking about Gencon lately.

I suppose that the lesson now is… travel with your own videographer and record everything. I can see Larry arguing and possibly not even being all soft and cuddly about it, but really, if it wasn’t more than “you’re wrong and that’s a stupid argument” then the clear implication that Larry was “ugly” BECAUSE the panelist was a “panelist of color” is pretty much … well, expected. I suppose it’s *expected* that Jemisin would try to frame it with that implication.

Alex
Guest
Alex
1 year 11 months ago

Guessing it was Straw Man Larry. That guy is one.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 11 months ago

Real Larry is currently demanding details from Jemisin on Twitter.

Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago

I’m taking Mr Correia’s class online right now, and he’s pretty open about the fact that he likes to argue. He’s also very clear that it’s good-natured arguing, and at the end of it, everyone can usually agree to disagree. I think a lot of people might not be tuned in to this last part.

James May
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Mysterious cylinders have landed at Woking. Reported sightings of three-legged machines. Stay calm – eat poison. We’re doomed… they may be assholes from outer space.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 11 months ago

“N. K. Jemisin
‏@nkjemisin Wow, apparently a bunch of Larry Correia’s fans are pissed at me for mentioning something another person said. I’m hurt, ya’ll. Heartbroken.”

Yes, Ms. Jemisin, people are pissed off by casual libel.

James May
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I would say her own fans. After being given 4 Nebula noms she’s self-destructed to the point her delusion about her career being “strangled at birth” has become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

James May
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Was it as bad as this panel dust up of race disagreeing with race?

“K Tempest Bradford @tinytempest · 6h 6 hours ago That upset me so badly I nearly got up and left. White men: no. NO. Fuck you, no. You do not do that. No. #WisconLastSummer”

*

“N. K. Jemisin ‏@nkjemisin May 23 Wow, apparently a bunch of Larry Correia’s fans are pissed at me for mentioning something another person said. I’m hurt, ya’ll. Heartbroken.”

“K Tempest Bradford ‏@tinytempest May 23 @nkjemisin ahahahahahahahahaha”

*

Oh, irony. It burns.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 11 months ago

Well, Ajit George, who wrote the Tor.com article about GenCon Larry fisked last year was on the “I Need Diverse Games” panel Ms. Jemisin tweeted from. *If* he was the “panelist of color” she refers to, then Larry’s “ugly interaction” was fisking his article, and nothing more.

And if that’s all, that’s pathetic beyond belief. Someone disagreed with him once online and he had to whine about it publically? Piteous.

James May
Guest
1 year 11 months ago
How many summers does this woman think she has left in her career? I can see them winking out one by one. It’s like an addict who sees their tomorrows disappearing until there are none left. That’s what an obsession is – it’s like an addiction. Let’s be honest – what would it cost any of these SJWs – supposedly SFF writers – to give up talking smack about whites and men for one year? The fact they probably couldn’t do it tells you all you need to know about how meds and obsessions work. For all of SJW talk… Read more »
Alex
Guest
Alex
1 year 11 months ago
So, read through (as much as I’m going to) three of the five novels. Skin Game is, so far, the far and away winner. Goblin Emperor is a distant second. Starts strong, gets weaker and weaker as the story goes along. Purely coincidentally, the story gets more and more dull as more and more politics are injected more and more blatantly. Ancillary Sword… bleah. Mil-SF isn’t my thing to start with, but nothing really happens in the excerpt for a loooong time except a lot of talking about characters I know nothing about and care less. Below No Award. KJA’s… Read more »
Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago

I haven’t read any of The Three Body Problem yet, but it’s the entry that I’m most curious about, because it’s literally foreign. If you’re looking for something with a different point of view, that would be the first place I’d start.

Clint
Guest
Clint
1 year 11 months ago
I really liked Goblin Emperor, until the end. When the antagonist was revealed to lack any and all redeeming qualities — even the competence that was supposed to be his defining characteristic — it undercut everything that was interesting about the central conflict. A well-meaning but untrained absolute dictator could be a disaster. A competent bureaucrat opposing that dictator out of concern for the country was a really interesting conflict. A corrupt and incompetent bureaucrat opposing the saintly innocent outsider who instantly understood all of modern progressive values because he has experienced oppression and bigotry — not so interesting. It’s… Read more »
Alex
Guest
Alex
1 year 11 months ago

“Pleasant” is the best word I can use to describe Goblin Emperor. Nothing really bad happens to anyone good in it (all the bad things that happened prior to the book are discussed in past-tense exposition). All the bad guys get their comeupance at the end at no real cost. The few non-bad guys who disagree with the protagonist on anything all come around or yield with the most mild of objections.

It’s enjoyable, but not exactly tense or conflict-heavy. Pleasant, lightweight, not especially memorable.

Clint
Guest
Clint
1 year 11 months ago

Enjoying the Hugo Voter Packet so far.

Great, great nominees in Graphic Story. There went yesterday afternoon. I had to put one down mid-way to go write seven hundred words of brainstorming for a new story.

Then I followed the link from Editor, Short Form: Mike Resnick to Galaxy’s Edge only to discover a Heinlein short story I’d never read. Wow.

SJW75126
Guest
SJW75126
1 year 11 months ago
“It should go without saying, but apparently I need to plainly state the blatantly obvious, everyone should read the nominations and vote honestly.” It can’t go without saying because slates imply block voting. And the nomination process resulted in block voting. As a SJW, I agree with your sentiments. I suppose everyone here will be pleased to know that slates will probably continue to get people like John Wright multiple slots for only one year. Scalzi likes a 6/3 solutions where there are six people on the final ballot but one can only have 3 nominations. I suppose no one… Read more »
Thomas Monaghan
Guest
Thomas Monaghan
1 year 11 months ago

I’ll listen to Scalzi about the Hugo voting when he repays me for the Redshirt Star Trek fanfic HB I bought and when he returns the Hugo that he asked for and received for that book.

Thomas Monaghan
Guest
Thomas Monaghan
1 year 11 months ago

I’ll also listen to the Haydens’ when he returns a couple of the long form Hugo’s that his friends gave him. Tor LF editors 5 winners in 8 years with a total of 18 nominations.

Beolach
Guest
Beolach
1 year 11 months ago
Scalzi likes a 6/3 solutions where there are six people on the final ballot but one can only have 3 nominations. I suppose no one on the puppy side would have a problem with that either. You do know Wright didn’t break any records in this, right? He would have, if “Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus” hadn’t been disqualified, but since it was, he’s only tied for the most nominations in a single year, w/ Mira Grant/Seanan McGuire from the 2013 ballot. Where was Scalzi’s proposed rule change then? As it happens, I personally would be fine w/… Read more »
Beolach
Guest
Beolach
1 year 11 months ago

I need an edit option… the blockquote should have ended just before “You do know Wright didn’t break any records in this, right?” That question & everything after it are my comment, the lines before are the blockquote from SJW75126.

SJW75126
Guest
SJW75126
1 year 11 months ago

” As it happens, I personally would be fine w/ this suggested rule change on its own, but the blatent hypocrisy is infuriating.”

That’s what I was thinking. In another year this will all be water under the bridge. Provided the puppies keep their numbers up, their particular favored works should get some play and there shouldn’t be any discord.

SJW75126
Guest
SJW75126
1 year 11 months ago
“But Scalzi still actively claims Redshirts was perfectly qualified & eligible, while “Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus” & Andy Weir’s The Martian are not. ” I am not sure Andy Weir is concerned. For me, I look at the Goodreads Choice Awards as the best indicator – other than friends. Really, it was my Dresden friends that suggested MHI. Anyway, The Martian won for Science Fiction. Scalzi’s “Lock In” was second . “The Book of LIfe” won easily for fantasy; it was the third in the trilogy. MHI Nemesis was nominated in Horror but that category went to… Read more »
Beolach
Guest
Beolach
1 year 11 months ago
Andy Weir’s The Martian does not appear on the final ballot of the 2015 Hugo Awards, most likely because it is not eligible. The author has stated (message #20) he’s unsure of its eligibility, but suspects that it’s not. Why is there any question about its eligibility? For exactly the same reason there’s questions about “Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus” & Redshirts eligibility – it was published online in a prior year, before being picked up for traditional print publication in 2014. I wasn’t aware of The Martian until its print publication, so I couldn’t have nominated it… Read more »
SJW75261
Guest
SJW75261
1 year 11 months ago
Beolach said: ” “Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus” & Redshirts eligibility – it was published online in a prior year, before being picked up for traditional print publication in 2014.” Not that it matters, but the only thing I can find on publishing date for Red Shirts is June 5, 2012. It won both the Hugo and the Locus and now will be a TV show. I am guessing sales were pretty good? I don’t see anything that says it was self published in 2011. Got a link? And I mean a real link – not to some… Read more »
Beolach
Guest
Beolach
1 year 10 months ago

Yep, my bad. I was conflating Redshirts with Old Man’s War. Almost everything I said applies to Old Man’s War, not Redshirts, except for both being nominated & winning – that was Redshirts; Old Man’s War was only nominated to the final ballot.

Illuminated Whelps
Guest
1 year 11 months ago

With 9000 voting members of Sasquan this year, it is clear that a one-page summary of the Sad Puppies campaign and counter-campaign is needed.

The Illuminated Whelps have stepped in to provide one. No need to thank us, the Cabal already knows how you feel.

http://illuminated-whelps.tumblr.com/tagged/hugo-awards

We would apologize to Steve Jackson, creator of the Illuminati! card game of conspiracy and power plays, but fnord.

Frank Probst
Guest
Frank Probst
1 year 11 months ago
@Illuminated Whelps I’ve been talking about this over at Brad Torgersen’s site, and I think that any honest discussion of this year’s Hugos really needs to include Vox Day and the Rabid Puppies. There are some people who are in both groups, some who are in one but not the other, and some who are in neither. My take on the whole thing is that there are four groups: 1. The Sad Puppies 2. The Rabid Puppies 3. The Anti-Puppies 4. Everyone Else The SPs put together a slate of works that they suggested that folks read and consider for… Read more »
SJW75261
Guest
SJW75261
1 year 11 months ago
” I think these people would vote against Vox Day even if he edited the original versions of The Iliad and The Odyssey. There also seems to be quite a bit of animus (albeit not quite as much) toward John C Wright.” Yep. Many are going to rank VD and Wright below No Award or Vote No Award as their final and leave VD and Wright off the ballet. “OR they’ve decided to come up with their own voting formula. I would put George R R Martin in this category, and I think he’s the 600 pound gorilla in this… Read more »
Peter O
Guest
Peter O
1 year 10 months ago

The “discussion needs to include rapid puppies” line was referring to illuminated welps picture, not claiming RP as part of SP. (In fact, he then lists RP as a separate faction)

Also, you realize that Larry has made the same comment about paranormal romance, right?

SJW75261
Guest
SJW75261
1 year 10 months ago

Thanks for setting me straight Peter.

trackback
1 year 10 months ago

[…] Correia. After helping to engineer the greatest tactical voting scheme in Hugo history, Correia recently declared, ever so breathlessly, that he simply could not believe that he actually had to urge all Hugo […]

airboy
Guest
airboy
1 year 10 months ago
I’m working my way through the Hugo packet and started with what I consider the “minor” categories. I looked at the art and made my choices of what I liked. I’ve read all of the materials in “related works.” I have a Ph.D, am on editorial review boards and understand the scientific process. I’m also a professional writer (in my field) and understand writing for specific audiences. Here are my opinions on this category: A] Michael Z. Williamson – Wisdom From My Internet = No Award. Read it and not impressed. Not sure how this would help anyone who is… Read more »
Mike
Guest
Mike
1 year 10 months ago

Having trouble with WordPress. This is a test

wpDiscuz