Monster Hunter Nation

I’m not Vox Day

I have repeated this stuff dozens of times, but apparently I need to repeat it again.

The Sad Puppies 3 campaign is a separate and different entity than the Rabid Puppies campaign.

I started Sad Puppies a few years ago. My goal was to demonstrate that the awards were biased, represented the likes of only one small part of fandom, and that authors with the wrong politics who got on the ballot would be attacked.  All of that has been demonstrated rather conclusively.  

Brad Torgersen ran Sad Puppies 3, and I was one of the people who helped. The mission changed, and Brad’s main goal was to get deserving, worthy authors who would normally be ignored onto the ballot, regardless of their politics.

Vox Day ran a separate campaign called Rabid Puppies.

I believe that RP started with most of existing SP3 suggested slate, and then added more works that they liked. But I can’t speak for them.

Vox Day himself was not on the SP3 slate.   

I believe 3 short fiction works from his publishing house were on our suggested slate. They were on our suggested slate because we thought they were very good.

Vox Day was on a prior SP suggestion slate, because I liked his novelette that year, and the SP2 slate was pretty much just my personal suggestions.

The Sad Puppies campaign doesn’t endorse anybody’s politics. Our slate had people from everything, left, right, middle, and question mark. We only cared if the works were good.

I personally do not agree with Vox on a wide variety of topics.  

I do not speak for him.

I do not control him.

He does what he wants.

We have argued about this topic. You know the situation has gotten weird when I’m the voice of moderation.

I cannot disown what I do not own.

I neither condone nor defend any of his public statements. I did not make them.

Of course I do not like some of the things he has said.

Do you think the existence of Rabid Puppies has somehow made my life easier?

I’m not going to burn anyone in effigy. Stop asking.

I’m not going to condemn anyone by association. Stop asking.

When two assholes collide, I shouldn’t have to take a side, declare one a sainted victim, and the other the devil aggressor. Stop asking me to.

I’ve said all of the above before.

My personal politics are on record. I have been involved in politics. I’ve written about my personal beliefs a lot. I am very opinionated. Those are my personal beliefs. I stand by them. Since this has started reporters have combed through everything I’ve ever written, trying to find something sexist, racist, or homophobic to use against me, and they haven’t found anything. Why? Because they aren’t there. Because I’m not.

I recommended someone’s short story. You do not like his belief. I can defend my liking his short story, but I cannot, and should not have to account for the author’s personal beliefs. A giant group of other authors, who are also not affiliated with him, should not be assigned his beliefs and be attacked for them.

However, I can believe that all authors have the right to free speech. That includes people who say stuff I don’t like or agree with. I have a giant list of authors I disagree with. I have done so, loudly, and often. We should all be free to disagree without the danger of purges, defamation, and career sabotage. As far as I am aware, Vox Day hasn’t ever called for censorship or tried to ruin any author’s career. I cannot however, say that same thing for others.

Authors should not be attacked for the crime of being recommended by someone you don’t like. That is asinine. The only questions should be, is the work good? Is the work award worthy? Yes? Good. Then quit yelling at them. I was told by one of his supporters yesterday that Vox is also a fan of Umberto Eco and China Mieville. Better break out the torches and pitchforks!

I cannot explain his quotes or his public statements because I did not formulate them, do not hold them myself, and I did not write them. Unlike my critics, I do not claim to read minds.

I cannot purge him. First, I don’t believe in purges. Second, I believe in free speech, warts and all. And third, since he isn’t part of my campaign, I’ve got nothing to purge him from.   

Let me clarify something. When I say something to the effect about how it would be awful nice to see normal people on the other side condemn the outlandish, racist, stupid, hateful, threatening things that hundreds on their side have said, I don’t actually expect them to. They don’t own other people’s comments either. Normally when I bring that up, it is out of frustration, because I’m expected to ritually shun someone who is nominally on my side of the debate for saying mean things, while all those on the other side saying things just as bad or worse, are given a pass. That is hypocritical.

For the one loudmouth I’m being demanded to account for, just among the award winning and nominated folks on the other side you’ve got NAMBLA supporters, psychopathic trolls, and a whole mess of racists… But Brad and I are the ones who need to anoint ourselves with ash and perform the ritual of shame? No. Buzz off.  

Look at it like this. I’m Churchill. Brad is FDR. We wound up on the same side as Stalin.

SP3 has been accused of trying to sweep the nominations. First, we didn’t have 5 in most of the categories, and when we did, it was because we had a ton of good suggestions and honestly thought all of them were awesome. Second, we did not expect to do as good as we did. Our showing was a surprise. Some of the categories were not swept by SP, but rather a combination of SP and RP noms, and SP had no control over that. Note, that isn’t an apology. That is a clarification. They are fans too, they spent their $40 like everyone else, and they voted for what they wanted.

And believe me, if I was surprised by how many fans SP brought, I was really surprised by what RP pulled off.

John C. Wright is also not Vox Day. Sad Puppies did not get him a record number of nominations. I believe we had him for 3 items in novella, short, and related work, and all of them were excellent. Wright picked up more nominations beyond that, which again, my campaign had no control over. He is now tied for most in one year. However, Wright is an excellent author, who has been around about as long as Charles Stross, but he is normally ignored at awards time. So rather than bitch and moan about him getting several noms, why don’t you actually read the works to see how good they are and vote honestly?

My motivation was not to replace one biased clique with a new biased clique, but rather to get an award that everyone—up until two weeks ago—claimed represented all of fandom, to represent more of fandom. I suppose the one way that I do have to accept responsibility for Vox Day is that I’m the one who demonstrated to all the outsiders just how little and cliquish the system actually was.  

So in conclusion, we are not Vox Day. Quit trying to make us the same. Vox Day is Vox Day. If you have any problems with him, take it up with him.

Catching up, then back to work
Well, this sucks.
T.L. Knighton
Guest

It’s absolutely pathetic that you felt like you had to say something like this, Larry. Absolutely pathetic.

There’s no way any of us should have to announce that we’re not Vox Day. Especially considering all the digital ink spilled saying so previously. You shouldn’t have had to do it again.

And what’s really pathetic? This whole post won’t accomplish a damn thing, because they’ll still equate you and Brad with Vox.

MP
Guest

Wuck? You want to clarify “pathetic?” It’s certainly sad that SJWs are pulling the Alinsky tactics and Larry has to remind them about basic logic.

Kristophr
Guest

The left cannot tolerate logic. No matter how much you remind them it exists, they will continue to ignore it.

Doug Loss
Guest

The one I like best is when they make some wild assertion, then crow, “Prove I’m wrong!” I always say, “You don’t get how debate works, do you? You made the assertion, I challenged it, the onus is on YOU to prove what you said, not on me to refute it. Till you do, what you said must be assumed to be untrue.”

New Class Traitor
Guest

B…b…but logic is a racist, sexist, homophobic tool of the cisgendered patriarchy. We do not need bourgeois truth! We need revolutionary truth!

/SJW*nker mode off

Duke of URL
Guest

You’ve been listening to Elizabeth Warren again, haven’t you?

RedJack
Guest

Logic will not work. It is viewed as hatred and evil (note, there is no sarcasm).

The fact do not matter to them, only the hate does. They hate Larry, and most of us, because we don’t hate as they do.

Murphy7
Guest

While I am saddened that anyone would perceive a need to make this differentiation, but I find myself often saddened by the state of humanity at times.

On the other hand, I find new reasons to love Larry’s writing in each of these blog posts. I really love this analogy: “Look at it like this. I’m Churchill. Brad is FDR. We wound up on the same side as Stalin.”

Well said.

Reziac
Guest

That is a good one. (Now waiting to see how it gets misconstrued by the other side…)

Larry says, “Vox Day is Vox Day. If you have any problems with him, take it up with him.”

But they won’t. How many of VD’s detractors have actually argued their points with VD himself? Time and again I hear (paraphrased) “I don’t feel safe going to VD’s site.” So the answer is not very many, because it’s so much safer to fling poo at an effigy (where in this case, Larry is doing duty as the effigy).

Kristophr
Guest

They tried that. Vox is a racist, but he’s not a stupid racist.

Every time they go their to howl at him, he hands them their heads.

Kristophr
Guest

There, not their … bloody hell ….

Joe in PNG
Guest

This is the sort of thing he loves. A bit like how Hunter Thompson would have reacted to a major, 1 hour prime time Nixon speech denouncing the Rolling Stone*.

*for you lefties out there.

JustAGuyOnTheWeb
Guest

You used their correctly..

Kristophr
Guest

I used “their” twice. The first usage was incorrect.

Lee
Guest

Every racist is a stupid racist. Believing in race, a concept that was made up for financial gain, when science has proven there is no basis for racial differentiation, is the mark of a simple mind.

Lotharloo
Guest
I’ve read Vox’s irrational atheist as well as a few other ridiculous posts by him. He is well-past the point where one could be reasonably engaged with. Or to put it differently, there are more useful things to do in life than to argue with (broken) wind. Arguing with Vox reminds of the many pointless discussions I had with 9/11 truthers. They also certainly “knew a lot” and could at every chance pull another obscure random fact or connection. Same is true here. Pick any claim by Vox, the evidence he uses to back it is only superficially related and… Read more »
Darius
Guest

Hmmm… “disqualify”, “attack” and bordering on “make sh*t up”

Well, coming from someone who can’t use a common standard of racism for speech independent of the speaker, I don’t expect you to follow deeper logic in arguments either

Synova
Guest

Hey, weren’t you in the previous thread demanding that people disavow Vox because he (like the Democrats do) figure that women pretty much only vote with their vaginas?

Stephen St. Onge
Guest

People don’t feel safe GOING TO A WEBSITE?

Will evil spirits haunt them, or will the Abominable Dr. Day leap directly out of the monitor to kill them?

Patrick Chester
Guest

It is 2015, shouldn’t the Cyberpunk stuff be coming out? Cyberlimbs, cyberdecks, black ice…

Brian Niemeier
Guest

Hee hee. Nice Reference!

Patrick Chester
Guest

@Brian
The Firestarter program would set the unfortunate user on fire, though it would be most effective if the user was using a neural interface.

Leit
Guest

Will destroy shadowy conspiracies 4 Adam Jensen augments…

Watch for Operation Screaming Fist, coming soon to blogs near you.

Radioactive
Guest

Not my circus, not my monkeys

JaimeInTexas
Guest

I get metaphor but I suspect that many will go, “mmm so true, Vox is a Sallin” You go Larry, call it how you see it.
Maybe you should use the language that the Hugo gate keepers willl understand better:

You are Augusto Pinochet, Brad is King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud

Doug Northcote
Guest

Was having a drink of tea at the moment I read that. I literally had to wipe my face after laughing back into my mug.

Well played Correia! (Great metaphor!)

pmm
Guest

It isn’t that simple. SP and RP have very similar logos, shared some of the same nominations, and had been mentioned here as the “even more eevul” slate with a couple of recommendations from the RP list. It was NOT OBVIOUS to an outsider that the lists were unrelated without disclaimers of this sort.

Yes I understand that NOW. But it was very hard to know that when the Hugo nominations came out. I suspect this is what happened to EW too.

Crabtree
Guest

Assuming EW means Entertainment Weekly then it probably would have helped if they had bothered to talk to someone… anyone… on this side of the issue before going to print.

New Class Traitor
Guest

From personal experience in completely unrelated matters, I know many “journalists” are so intellectually lazy that they will basically republish a press release almost verbatim if it looks like it fits their preconceptions.

Sir Wulf
Guest
Over 80% of the articles we see in newspapers or posted on websites have their origins in someone’s press release. The people who generate these press releases are never dispassionate observers: They inevitably have some skin in the game”. Adding to the problem, many journalists walk into a situation with their minds already made up. They learn of an issue that will arouse the passions of their readers, then build their article around the information they already have. They’re only interested in including contradictory information when it lets them present the illusion that they are dealing fairly with the issue.… Read more »
Slime
Guest

“They would have needed to do research on the story before accurately representing it, so therefore it’s understandable that they did not do the research on the story before accurately representing it.”

Slime
Guest

* minus the second “accurately”

Kristophr
Guest

My kingdom for an edit function.

Jamie
Guest
You may excuse yourself if you like, but there is no excuse whatsoever for EW. They were lazy and biased. Period. Journalism 101: You talk to BOTH sides. That means, if there are two groups, you talk to two groups. If there are three groups, you talk to three groups. The number of people you talk to scales up with the number of groups in the story. This so “duh” that a high school reporter can master it. Middle school, even. What you do not do–and this is so bloody obvious–is take one person’s side and run with it. Reporters… Read more »
Reziac
Guest

Journalism today isn’t about accuracy. It’s about collecting as many eyeballs as possible to sell to advertisers. Cuz for journalists, YOU are the product.

Outrage works much better than truth as a means of gluing eyeballs to the screen. Therefore journalism today looks for outrage first and foremost, and for truth only incidentally, or if truth will provoke further outrage.

Stephen St. Onge
Guest

Are you claiming that Vox Day suggested only voting for straight white guys, as suggested in the EW story? If so, a citation would be nice.

Deb
Guest
Throwing a voice of (what I perceive to be) sanity into all this mess here: Instead of creating Sad Puppies, why didn’t you just create a positive campaign to make more scifi readers aware of all the different flavors of scifi out there, encourage ALL of them to nominate their favorites, and let democratic process decide the nominations? Instead, we have what has devolved into silly name-calling, and a total clusterf*ck for the Hugo Awards. Yeah, in recent years I’ve personally found the nominated works, especially the Novel and Novellas, to be kind of boring. So? Those are the people… Read more »
htom
Guest

OK, then, “You’re wrong.” That’s what Brad did. It was called SP3. Others trashed it, and you come along and appear to think that what they did was what Brad wanted. Ah well, life is like that.

Stephen St. Onge
Guest

You didn’t bother to read what Larry said about Sad Puppies and why he did what he did.

Consider yourself gonged. Exit’s to the left.

Synova
Guest
“Now we have the Puppies camp, claiming that everyone who isn’t agreeing with you are SJW or liberal or what have you.” Excuse me? I can’t imagine anyone having said that simply disagreeing with Sad Puppies makes someone an SJW. An SJW has a rather specific definition (mine is… “must have an enemy”… on account of status is gained by public battle against that enemy.) Liberal? There were liberals on Brad’s list and self-identified liberals comment here and are welcomed. A whole heck of a lot is made of the virtue of NOT having a political litmus test as a… Read more »
NC
Guest
To be fair on the liberal front — I keep combing through comments on this post using ‘leftist’ and ‘liberal’ as an insult and ‘how the left cannot tolerate logic’. Why is that necessary? It’s made me, someone trying to understand the movement, balk considering just as you said — Larry seemed clear in his inclusiveness. But so many on the replies on this post seem very much not interested in ‘welcoming’ those ideologies. Hence I think the comments about the ‘Puppies’ camp. But, back I go to see if I can sort the informative comments from those just bashing… Read more »
James May
Guest
Well, for what it’s worth, I don’t see this as a liberal problem per se. To me, SJWs are a coalition of extremely naive liberals with a certain almost hysterical crusader mindset driven by a cult of mentally unhinged female-worship and paranoid anti-white racism that self-identifies using the term “intersectional feminism.” I’d say roughly 2/3 of the whole are bigots and the rest do-gooders. It’s a really weird phenomenon, a perfect storm of creepiness. If I were to point to the two biggest culprits I’d say it’s gender studies classes and prescription medications. These people are not exactly shy about… Read more »
Taarkoth
Guest

Oh look, yet another concern troll whining about how it Messrs. Correia’s and Torgerson’s fault that the Flaming Douchnozzles of Tolerance are acting like sociopaths.

Shawna
Guest
“Instead of creating Sad Puppies, why didn’t you just create a positive campaign to make more scifi readers aware of all the different flavors of scifi out there, encourage ALL of them to nominate their favorites, and let democratic process decide the nominations?” That’s actually what I understood SP to be. I wasn’t really aware of the Hugos previously (vaguely, but they weren’t really on my radar), and I didn’t know that it was something I could join in on. SP made me aware of that and encouraged me to participate. So that’s what I did. I think I nominated… Read more »
JaimeInTexas
Guest

please delete my ptevious post. it went incomplete. please accept my apology for carelessness.

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest

I’m personally astonished by how easy it was to massively change the nominations, which in turn shows just how small a pool was voting for the Hugos. And the angry desperation with which this is being met by those who are members of the previous in-group demonstrates that they lack much in the way of support out of their own tiny faction.

Jlawson
Guest

As the saying used to go in the Society for Creative Anacronism, the politicking and infighting was so fierce because the stakes were so small.

In this case, you’re seeing egos who are used to ‘controlling’ who gets the Hugos finding they don’t have the power they used to have. And authors who have been GOHs on the Con circuit for ages seeing their potential GOH slots threatened.

This is unacceptable, so regretfully the Sad Puppies Must Die so They can continue being the apex of Fandom.

Herb
Guest

SJWs are like all leftists: they are Satanists in the Miltonian sense.

They would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.

The Hugos and WorldCon is the proof of this. They’d rather burn the award down to keep it to themselves than share it with the broader fandom.

Doug Loss
Guest

You know, at this point burning the award down doesn’t sound like such a bad thing.

Herb
Guest
I know but… I am voter for the first time even though I started reading SFF when I started reading circa 1970. I thought I had to go to WorldCon to vote until last year but only did SP this year. I didn’t have what I considered a broad enough reading to honestly nominate and the book I very much wanted to nominate wasn’t eligible after all. So I didn’t nom but I’ve been looking forward to my packet and reading as hard and fast as I could to be able to vote. The physical award is a thing of… Read more »
Joshua
Guest
SP did need to happen 10-20 years ago, actually. Too bad nobody was around who 1) put two and two together again to see that it was actually doable, and 2) cared to do so. I’m afraid that since SP didn’t happen 10-20 years ago, we’re at the point where RP is the only solution that has any hope of saving the Hugos at all, in the same sense that the Reconquista saved Hispania by (eventually) turning into Spain instead of al-Andalus. Not only that, #GamerGate and the Puppies are more important than people think; because they are the first… Read more »
Herb
Guest

because they are the first green shoots of the tipping point, where liberalism is being shown to the greater, wider world, even beyond gamers and scifi fans, to be absurd, totalitarian, intellectually and morally bankrupt, and populated by childish, mentally ill, rabbity bullies and petty tyrants who are, nonetheless, paper tigers who are relatively easily defeated once one finally wakes up and realizes the need to do so.

Does that make SP, #GamerGate, and the D&D fans who fought a similar purge last summer the early settlers who are taking the arrows?

Joshua
Guest

Dangit! I missed the D&D drama! What happened there?

M. L. Martin
Guest

Herb–Perhaps I missed something, but the D&D drama last summer felt like a combination of other issues and the Revolution starting to eat its children. The two ‘gentlemen’ that the SJWs went after despise social conservatives as much as the SJWs do.

Matthew
Guest

Is there a good writeup of the D&D drama? I seem to have missed it.

Joshua
Guest

OK; looked up the D&D drama. I’m not sure if that’s really the same thing at all. That’s SJWs eating their own, and nobody taking a really principled stand over the imbecility of a witch-hunt of fellow SJWs who may possibly have made some “trans-gender” gamer feel bad once. Or who might do so in the future, at least.

Although any non-SJWs watching might have had their eyes opened, it still seems more likely that they’re still concerned that secretly they may be “transphobists” or the victims of some equally stupid made-up malady.

Herb
Guest
I do consider the D&D drama the same thing as Zak, especially, has stood up for the idea that if you’re talking about D&D all that matters is you’re making useful D&D stuff. Zak openly has no political use for social conservatives yet he publishes under one of the most politically incorrect imprints, Lamentations of the Flame Princess, that is deeply stepped in heavy metal culture. LotFP is also routinely accused of violence against women due to its art choices and themes. Zak’s real sin that started it all was when rape accusations were repeated without investigation about a designer… Read more »
Joshua
Guest
Sorry; I meant it’s not the same thing in that I don’t see anyone making a principled stand against it and attracting supporters who are openly claiming to have seen behind the curtain because of it, as has happened with GamerGate and the Puppies. The discussion isn’t around whether or not witch-hunters against “transphobists” is appropriate in the first place, it’s about whether or not those two actually ARE transphobists. The Narrative™ seems to remain entirely intact; it’s not even an attack on The Narrative™, rather it seems to be just political infighting between one group who dislikes a couple… Read more »
Herb
Guest
Joshua, had to think a bit about your comment and why I couldn’t agree. I think the issue is The Narrative. It is possible to be a leftist, that is believe a certain social organization is desirable, and not be wedded to the The Narrative. Zak S. is a leftist but he is not committed to The Narrative. The fact that he earned their ire over a year earlier and that the fight was payback shows it. He say, “Don’t repeat rape accusations without proof” when The Narrative is “all rape accusations are true”. When they were found not to… Read more »
Jlawson
Guest

And THIS is what they’re pushing out of the running in all their ‘tolerance’ and ‘diversity’.

http://www.johnjosephadams.com/free_ebooks/Goodnight_Stars_Annie_Bellet.pdf

That’s good stuff – well worthy of Analog 20 years ago.

(Darn. I’ve reached OldeFartDom… 🙁 )

Douglas B. Killings
Guest

> I’m personally astonished by how easy it was to
> massively change the nominations

I also think it was a sign of a lot of deep-felt frustration with the Hugo nominations these last few years.

rocinante2
Guest

Four words:

Redshirts, “Best Novel”, 2013.

rocinante2
Guest

PS – That’s when *I* knew the Hugos were “broken”.

AngorMike
Guest

First rule of a vote fight, bring your vote.
Second rule of a vote fight, bring friends with votes.

The Captain
Guest

Well said. Just sorry you have to keep saying it…

Keep writing those dynamite fun books and know that you’ve got a huge fan base that know what you’re saying, agree and agree with it.

NEXT YEAR I’m getting a membership, when the packet comes I’ll have someone black out the names of the authors so I have no idea what I’m reading and vote the Best Stories.

Best regards,

The Captain

Salt
Guest

“I have repeated this stuff dozens of times, but apparently I need to repeat it again.”

You’ll have to do it till the cats come home.

“Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.” Aristotle

J
Guest

#JeNeSuisPasVoxDay 🙂

Doug Loss
Guest

But Larry, if you’re REALLY not VD, why haven’t we ever seen you in the same room together? (And of course, if we did that would mean that you have identical beliefs and support each other in all things…)

Do I really have to say “sarcasm?”

Richard McEnroe
Guest

“Gosh Miss Lane. isn’t it funny how you never see Larry Correia and Vox Day togeth–” *THUD*

“Oh, Jimmy….”

Brad R. Torgersen
Guest
Alas, because the opponents of SP3 use the Alinsky Playbook, this is what it’s comes down to. They’re running with the narrative of LARRY = BRAD = VOX. Which to anyone with a brain is wrong, but then, the people who are hating on us right now have proven they don’t have brains. Larry’s statement is for the middle. The people who haven’t dropped their nickels into one jar, or the other, just yet. I like Larry’s statement a lot. I think it says just about everything I could possibly say. Thank you, Larry!
Paul
Guest
Larry’s Big Three analogy shows you both to be completely out of touch with reality and with no perspective. First read Vox Day in context http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/04/13/vox-day-says-his-totally-not-racist-comments-have-been-taken-out-of-context-in-context-theyre-even-worse/ You wonder “Why Oh Why are people associating me with him”. Then a few paragraphs later you acknowledge you are willingly and happily allied with him. Gee…. wonder why people are associating you with him. The thing is that when you do that, you send a message that you think you are uniting with VD (an appropriate abbreviation considering the context) to face a greater evil (ala FDR/Churchill with Stalin). You seem to believe… Read more »
Dan
Guest
“The thing is that when you do that, you send a message that you think you are uniting with VD (an appropriate abbreviation considering the context) to face a greater evil (ala FDR/Churchill with Stalin). You seem to believe that the a clique of SciFi writers is a greater evil than the hate and bile which is Vox Day. You lack perspective. ” Christians and Jews are being genocided across the Muslim World. Western Civilization is in sharp decline. Vox merely has the nerve to say something and he is the monster? The actual genociders are enabled by the cover… Read more »
Dan
Guest

It should be pointed out (since it is unfortunately not obvious) that the kinds of freedoms SciFi writers enjoy only exit in Western Civilization and nowhere else.

Joshua
Guest

I wonder why you are willing to so openly associate yourself with David Futrelle, an openly bigoted man-hater?

rocinante2
Guest

Um, yeah, linking to Dave Futrelle is not going to buy you a lot of credibility around here.

Keith Glass
Guest

I’m waiting for the next revision to the Narrative here.

I’m betting on “Vox Day is a sock puppet controlled by Correia via the Orbital Mind Control Lasers”.

Because you’re OBVIOUSLY a 1%er attached to the Military-Industrial Complex. . . . (evil grin)

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

No, no, get your facts straight. It’s Larry who is under the control of Vox’s mind-control lasers on behalf of the GamerGate/Reptilian/Rotarian axis.

Matthew
Guest

The “GamerGate/Reptilian/Rotarian” axis, eh? What’s the PUFF one one of those (waiting for the MHI story where it turns out the British Royal Family really *is* composed of reptilian aliens like the ones in V)

John VI
Guest

Doctor who writers already turned the royal family into werewolves….. Its really more a fun question of how they stay PUFF exempt.

John VI
Guest

Actually, its a fun mental experiment to wonder how ANY politician stays PUFF exempt…

live the dream
Guest

“GamerGate/Reptilian/Rotarian military axis G.R.R.M for short.

Wait it shows who was behind this the whole time.

palaeomerus
Guest

I don’t know FNORD what you are referring to.

Keith Glass
Guest

Quiet! We’re trying to immanentize the Eschaton here !!

Radioactive
Guest

he is after all the Galactic Lord of Evil…note promotion

James May
Guest

Why isn’t John Scalzi writing a post called “I’m not N. K. Jemisin”?

#DitchYourRacists

Joshua
Guest

Because maybe he is! And K. Tempest Bradford too!

The Phantom
Guest

Because only Right Wingers have guilt by association. Left Wingers simply denounce and move on.

And besides, N.K. Jemwhatsit has been “rehabilitated” back into the GoodThink fold. Poor strayed lamb, you meanies leave her/him/it alone!

Meanies!!!

Wes S.
Guest

Was Jemisin ever *out* of the fold?

Hell, they even welcomed back Requires Hate with open arms.

NKR
Guest
They have their narrative and they’re going to stick to it, Larry. They’re still saying SP is all about you wanting a Hugo when you turned down your nomination this year (for an outstanding and worthy book, I might add) and have stated unequivocally that you will never accept another nomination in the future. Yet they persist with their narrative. It’s why their trolls are so witless. They’re more easily roused and sent in a direction but they don’t do well with conflicting information so they ignore all but the narrative of their masters. Thralls, the lot of them. Please… Read more »
Reziac
Guest

Here’s something interesting from an editor at Tor-UK:

http://www.torbooks.co.uk/blog/2013/07/10/sexism-in-genre-publishing-a-publishers-perspective

I pointed this out to someone who was crying “sexism in publishing” and even with hard numbers staring her in the face it was still “well, we’re not being given a chance” (and regoaled to “sexism in reviewing”).

Glah! What Aristotle said.

Synova
Guest
I like how she starts out explaining that she’s worried about getting attacked for speaking her mind and having an opinion. And we were supposedly making that up. Other than that… this difference in submission rates has been known/suspected not-a-secret for a long time. As in… everyone KNOWS that women tend to take on the “editor” role and reject their own work and so never actually send it out. (I got chewed out once for this “pre-rejection” usurpation of someone else’s job.) The result is that the acceptance rates tend to be higher for women than men coming out of… Read more »
Reziac
Guest
Those are pretty durn good insights, and very much my personal observations as well, across a number of species. The root is basic biology. Once the male has reproduced nature doesn’t care if he gets himself killed — so there’s no selection pressure against just up and doing whatever idiocy comes into his head. But the female needs to live long enough to raise the next generation, so selection pressure has been more toward females that think everything through before they act. Add the human social pressure to perform, and worst case, in guys you get the famous last words… Read more »
Emily Nelson
Guest

So my performance anxiety is a survival trait and not a character flaw?

James May
Guest
And now imagine it’s 1912 and Burroughs’ first story is published. The country of 90 million is 90% white, 90% of black folks are still living in the old South and somehow these daffy gender feminists think black folks and women are being turned out of SFF, which only had two or three magazines semi-regularly publishing SFF stories. There were plenty of magazines for women. It’s not exactly anyone’s fault women mostly didn’t buy SFF magazines. Now fast forward to 1923 and 26. Weird Tales and Amazing Stories start – 2 full-time genre magazines now, and they barely survived, and… Read more »
Matthew Bowman
Guest

I saw someone on another blog (it was boring, didn’t bookmark it for notes) insisting that okay, so Larry Correia is right, Vox isn’t on Sad Puppies. BUT, she insisted, LARRY CORREIA HAS NOT SAID THAT VOX WASN’T INVOLVED IN THE PLANNING PROCESS! Proof of guilt!

Yep. Logic. It’s useful for more than making Vulcans seem weird.

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest

Larry also didn’t say that he’s not a humaniform robot remote-controlled by Vox. And even if he did say it, it wouldn’t mean anything — he might just be a humaniform robot controlled by Vox, after all! :O

Zsuzsa
Guest

I’m pretty sure Larry Correia has also never said that he isn’t planning a ritual sacrifice of 17 rabbits to Sasquatch for every Sad Puppy nominee that gets the Hugo. Therefore, we must infer that he is, and vote “No Award” to save the bunnies!

keranih
Guest

I heard it was goats.

SusanM.
Guest

I heard it was fluffy kittens.

Doug Loss
Guest

Mmmm, fluffy kittens–the tastiest kind of kittens…

Reziac
Guest

Ewoks. If only he’d sacrificed ewoks, everyone would be in agreement.

SDN
Guest

But if you sacrificed Ewoks Ace of Spades would be upset.

Grayson
Guest

What’s the PUFF bounty on Ewoks, anyway?

Douglas B. Killings
Guest

But I have it on good authority that Bunnies aren’t just cute like everybody supposes. After all, they’ve got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses. And what’s with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?

Lea
Guest

ISWYDT.

And since shortness isn’t allowed I’ll finish..

Bunnies! Bunnies it must be bunnies.

Justin Watson
Guest

Or maybe midgets.

greyratt
Guest

WAIT… you sacrifice the rabbits (goats, chickens, bunnies, fluffy kittens, etc.) BEFORE the vote to win the hugo. not afterwards. that is a celebration not a sacrifice.

Achillea
Guest

And remember you’re not allowed to burn them! small animals /= burning!

Kristophr
Guest

( hides the Flamenwerfer )

Joe in PNG
Guest

If you’re burning small animals, then you’re doing barbecue wrong.

Jim Gorcz
Guest

Sacrificing rabbits to Sasquatch? Oh geez, River Shoulders is going to be pissed. His people have enough stigmas already.

Rob Spalding
Guest

Was that the blog that went:
Vox is part of the Evil League of Evil, he even has a title.
The Puppies said the Evil League of Evil planned SP3.
They did not say that Vox was not part of the planning.
Therefore Vox was obviously part if the planning.
?

The logic there is flimsy at best.

Achillea
Guest

Aaaaand we’re back with not playing in traffic or setting small animals on fire.

Wes S.
Guest

Should I go ahead and put CM on standby…?

Emily Nelson
Guest

Wes you wrote:
“Should I go ahead and put CM on standby…?”

What is CM?

Achillea
Guest

Check out the comment thread here. Warning: be sure you’re somewhere you can laugh hysterically without anyone calling the guys from the local asylum.

SirShadesDrake
Guest

Achillea linked a recent incarnation. The original is here:

http://coldservings.livejournal.com/55352.html

Could possibly be the greatest thread hijacking of all time, and explains why most citizens of Monster Hunter Nation respect / fear a Muppet ; )

sSD

Wes S.
Guest

Achillea, Drake, thanks for finding the links for me. I didn’t have time to respond to Emily last night, alas…

Kristophr
Guest

I now have a new appreciation of the cookie monster.

And here is furry operator singing with Rammstein:
https://youtu.be/1ZeciX-3wfs

Matthew
Guest

Damn, isn’t that going a bit overboard? That dude is *crazy*!

SSumner
Guest

Sorry to hear people don’t understand the concept of individual identity. Its stupid, excessively stupid and shouldn’t be falling in anyone’s lap.

Maybe someday people will realize that someone can enjoy one part of something(Vox’s novel) without that meaning that the person has to condone everything else from A-Z involving that person.

At least I can hope someday everyone can figure that out.

Sarah Hoyt
Guest

But people are widgets, that can be sorted by skin color and sexual preference and equipment! Within those groups they all think the same.
And of course you can’t enjoy someone’s work unless they rightthink and you agree with everything they say. Good Lord, Man, haven’t you been paying attention to the awards these last few years?
/sarcasm off.

Herb
Guest

Wait, wait, I thought you couldn’t sort by equipment because some people discover they have the wrong equipment and should be sorted as if they had they other equipment so you have to sort by equipment but not the actual equipment but the equipment they say they’re supposed to have.

I’m so confused.

windsong
Guest

Narrative always trumps reality. >.<

Sarah Hoyt
Guest

You’re making my head hurt, and I’m a woman. So you’re sexissssss and your argument is invalid.

Stephen St. Onge
Guest

Sarah Hoyt wins that exchange, but only by a hair.

The Phantom
Guest

Sarah, having heard your accent on that podcast the other day I’m adding it to your comments. And I must say, the results are absolutely hilarious.

That you’re saying what I’m thinking just makes it all the more hilarious. HoytSpeak. In my head. Bwahaha!!!!

Reziac
Guest

It’s a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder, except instead of pigeonholing other stuff, they pigeonhole people. (And I’m being serious, sad to say.) And you can’t be pigeonholed until they’ve drilled down to your specific traits (if you’re blessed) or flaws (if you’re cursed) by which to be sorted. If you lack, frex, big racism, they have to keep at it until they find your little racism, cuz otherwise they don’t know how to pigeonhole you.

(With apologies to pigeons…)

Steven Francis Murphy
Guest
Steven Francis Murphy

The truth doesn’t matter to The Opposition.

It is good to know where they stand. They’ve made themselves clear.

We are dinosaurs. We are not welcome. We are to be silenced. And if possible, destroyed.

It is as I always suspected. It is good to know where I stand.

And for that, Larry and Brad both, I thank you for your efforts.

Respects,
Steven Francis Murphy
On the Outer Marches

Mark Whipple
Guest

This this this!!!

AspiringTruFan
Guest

Please remember that the opposition isn’t the rest of us. I’ve been fighting these people quietly for years and losing.

Thanks for all of you that have brought the fight out into the light.

Reziac
Guest

Thank you for reminding us that there are still some reasonable people over yonder. Now if they’d just stop being afraid to speak up…

SusanM.
Guest

If I’m to be a dinosaur I want to be a pteranodon with laser eyes.

Where do I go to have my reconstructive species reassignment surgery? I am pretty sure that Obamacare should pay for it. No one can expect me to stay trapped in the body of a cuddly grandma when I feel in my heart I was meant to soar above the clouds and lay burning waste to random villages.

Doug Loss
Guest
Expendable Henchman
Guest

Dear Times,

The highest part sticking up on a shark is called a:
“Dorsal Fin”

The head is the pointy part on the front with eyes and teeth.

Alpheus
Guest

I think a sequel to a famous work is in order: “Since you are a Dinosaur, My Love”.

Do you think it might get nominated for a Hugo?

James May
Guest

Now that you’re a dinosaur my love, I’ll need some money to buy some Depends and size 57 open-toed shoes.

Lea
Guest

We are dinosaurs.

Hank jr was onto this year ago.

Wofmanjim
Guest

We are not dinosaurs.
We are Devo.

SirShadesDrake
Guest

nil carborundum illegitemi

60guilders
Guest

The sad thing is that you’ve been saying variations of this since I’ve been reading your blog, and people still won’t get it.

Rob Crawford
Guest

They get it, they just don’t care. Vox Day is too useful for them as a bludgeon.

Mark Whipple
Guest

Yep. As I have said previously, Vox is their last chance to make SP3 out to be haters. They can’t do it with the SP3 suggested works since there is way too much evidence that it is open minded and based on merit. They can now only lie about SP3 being linked to Vox.

chuck
Guest

use the Alinsky Playbook

I don’t think there is anything special about the Alinsky Playbook except, perhaps, that it is written down. It is basically instruction on how to be a manipulative asshole, and as such invents nothing new to history, politics, or the human condition.

Alan S.
Guest

The part that’s most amusing is that the Alinsky Playbook can basically be summarized as “Step outside of Civilized Rules and rally the mob to the flag of Barbarian!”

That’s Vox Day. Fire, meet fire.

Matthew House
Guest

And so, you too, are forced to renounce Vox Day. Maybe I’m not the sharpest spoon in the drawer, but your post looks an awful lot like a soviet era denoucing.

You are not, nor have you ever been, a supporter of Vox Day.

I’m not surprised it’s come to this.

It’s foing to get worse, too. I fully expect someone’s house to get burned down before this is over.

Matthew House
Guest

please note, previous post is meant to be sympathetic, not accusatory. I’m not a writer, I’m a grease monkey.

Taysha
Guest

My understanding of denouncing would be to trash the person being denounced.

Simply stating that one is not who one is being associated with is not quite URRS-level. I, too, would be sick of being told I’m evil becuase – Vox.

I’m sure Larry can come up with plenty of evil on his own.

Mark Whipple
Guest
I am sad and frustrated this has gone on for so long. It doesn’t matter how many times you say that you’re not Vox. They NEED to align you with him to keep this a scandal since they were unable to say you were a racist/homophobe/cat hater by your nominations. There is an orgy of evidence that the people you picked were from a diverse group so they have to hold on to the last thing they have to try and prove their false point. As I have said previously, they can’t get their whiny base to actually vote, they… Read more »
John C Wright
Guest

“Also, I think it’s entirely unfair that you will not accept a nomination. If your work is good enough to stand out, it should be recognized.”

I agree with Mark Whipple, who sounds like a fine fellow.

Larry Correia should be up for whatever new award replaces the Hugos if or when the Social Justice Planeteers burn the award rather than let any unpersons win one.

Bruce
Guest

I second the motion!

Alligosh
Guest

We can call the new award “The Correia”, or perhaps “The Torgersen”.

in all seriousness, it could just be something like “The World’s Best SF/F”, though TWiBSFuF may not catch on all that well.

Doug Loss
Guest

Call it “The Heinlein.”

keranih
Guest

Or…(I don’t hate ‘The Heinlein’) – dig even deeper back, to da Vinci, perhaps.

Doug Loss
Guest

Really torque them off and call it “The Ringo” or “The Kratman.”

Steve Johnson
Guest

The Julie (Jules Verne)

Cataline Sergius
Guest

Sounds better than the, “Gernsback.”

Or for that matter, “Hugo the Rat.”

Which is what Hugo Gernsback was known as by his stable of unpaid writers.

It’s funny to me that the most prestigious writing award in SFF is named for man who was widely detested by so many of his writers.

Tiago Becerra Paolini
Guest
Tiago Becerra Paolini

It should be called “The Wendell”.

Felix Bellator
Guest

The Roberts, for Heinlein and E. Howard.

Synova
Guest

I like Steve’s suggestion of The Julie.

(Since that’s my name.)

But really … Jules Verne… good choice.

Or go even farther back and call it the Illiad.

Zsuzsa
Guest

Want to second Tiago Becerra Paolini’s suggestion of the “Wendell.” The trophy should be a manatee on a pedestal, while joyous puppies frolic beneath it.

Matthew
Guest

The “What a Rush” award – since that’s what one should be thinking after reading a winner.

Danby
Guest

No no no no no.
It should be the Big-Eyed Puppy

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

“By your entitlement combined, I am Captain Hugo!”

Joseph Capdepon II
Guest

You should as well John. Count to a Trillion was amazing.

Awake in the Nightlands was just fantastic. It was the first time in a very long time that something like that has had any effect on me.

John C Wright
Guest

Your thanks are the only award I ned, Mr Capdepon. Thank you.

Wes S.
Guest

“Awake In The Night Lands” was the first thing I read by Mr. Wright; indeed, it was one of the first books I bought for my Kindle, based solely on Internet buzz.

And yes, it blew me away. High-octane nightmare fuel, written in prose with an antique beauty reminiscent of Lovecraft at his best, but without Lovecraft’s nihilism.

That was the book that made me a fan. I’ve been reading him ever since.

Brian
Guest

It is time for a new award anyway.

Basset hound holding a kukri in her jaws staring mournfully up at you. The ultimate Sad Puppy.

Joshua
Guest

We’re close to the point where winning a Hugo, unless it’s an ironic thumb in the eye of the SJWs, is a toxic albatross around your neck. I’m more in favor of a Reconquista of the Hugos than the replacement of them, if that’s even possible.

But since the topic is up, I prefer that the new awards that were formerly called the Hugos be named after a true pioneer in the genre, like Jules Verne. Maybe the award can be called the Family Jules.

Feather Blade
Guest

Close to?

That point was passed years ago.

That’s (one of) the point of all of this.

Joshua
Guest

Eh. Maybe. I’m still hopeful that the Hugos can be rehabilitated.

But if they can’t, I’m not in the least distressed to see them nuked instead.

wayne earl
Guest

Why not call the new award…the Vox?

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

It certainly doesn’t help that Vox keeps using the Sad Puppies hashtag on Twitter. It gives the impression that he’s part of it, when he isn’t. But as Larry said, Vox is not under his control.

Reziac
Guest

Speaking of other uses of “Sad Puppies”, have y’all seen this?

http://blog.sadpuppies.org/

Domain ownership is proxied.

Doug Loss
Guest

So who is Noah Ward (the author of all the blog entries, and one would assume the owner of the site)?

Beolach
Guest

Say it out loud, slowly.

Doug Loss
Guest

[Palm to the forehead] Doh!

Reziac
Guest

David Gerrold has used “Noah Ward” as a nym, but it’s not unique to him:
https://www.facebook.com/david.gerrold/posts/10205356798731801

keranih
Guest

I agree with LC. That sucks. They need advice and meaningful critical critique.

swiftfoxmark2
Guest

Larry,

They are doing this in order to make you separate from Vox. It is a classic example of divide and conquer. George Martin has already started this with his posts about Vox.

They know this. They don’t care. They are going to keep at you in order to drive a wedge between the united front that is opposing them. Don’t let them get away with it, especially when victory is in your grasp.

Mark Whipple
Guest

I actually do not agree. I think they want to link SP3 to Vox and RP because they think that is enough to destroy SP3. Funny enough, it is not. Vox isn’t going anywhere. Neither is SP. We are really worrying about things that have already been decided. SP3 has done what was intended and they are just unable to accept their defeat. They have done a good job in convincing Brad and Larry that they, the SJWs, are still in this fight. They are not. They lost.

AspiringTruFan
Guest

They aren’t a united front. They haven’t ever been. That is the point of Larry’s post.

If they think *isolating* Vox is going to make him any less obnoxious, they have clearly not been paying attention.

Wofmanjim
Guest

They don’t get it. The SP crew are merely their opponents. Vox is gleefully piloting his kamikaze into the SF establishment. And the CHORFs are not only proving LarryC and BradT right, they’re also dancing to Vox’s tunes.

Bibliotheca Servare
Guest

Thanks for that…now I’ve got soda all over my screen…damn it… I can’t stop giggling every time I reread your comment and picture VD in a little Yokosuka D4Y Suisei (“Judy”) dive bomber (thanks Wikipedia) hurtling towards the convention center, cackling gleefully. Oh man…

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Yes, our side is not a monolithic bloc.

Even if there hadn’t been an SP3, I suspect there would have been a Rabid Puppies. And it probably would have been even more successful.

bjlinden
Guest

I don’t know about you, but I actually AM Vox Day.

I am also Napoleon, Batman, Sam (I Am), Charlie, The Walrus, and Spartacus.

keranih
Guest

Especially Spartacus.

Darius
Guest

I am Spartacus.

And Larry Correia

And Brad TOrgerson

And Sarah Hoyt

And yes, even Vox. Day

I may or may not agree with them, but I will not denounce them. You will not pin their perceived sins on me, but I will provide them covering fire when requested.

Darius
Guest

Torgersen – think that was me and not the autocorrect –

Bjorn the Horse
Guest

While I personally may not care for someone’s opinions, I am rabidly opposed to slander and censorship, and to be honest, the frustrated tears of bullies add great flavour to coffee. Lock Shields.

Jon Bromfield
Guest
Larry, I am planning on attending Sasquan because 1. I have never been to a WorldCon 2. I am a proud Sad Puppies, we’ re just as good as any other fans and think we should be represented there. Questions for you: 1. Given the likely hostile atmosphere at Sasquan, is the anticipated cost (appx. $2000) worth it? I mean, I could go on an Alaskan cruise instead! 2. How should a Sad Puppy conduct himself? Dignified silence, even if provoked? Engage the opposition quietly and politely? Engage the opposition politely but forcefully? 3) Would wearing a Wendell t-shirt be… Read more »
Andrew
Guest

Wear a Go Pro.

Record Everything.

Put it on the web afterwards.

Get popcorn, enjoy fireworks.

B. Durbin
Guest
I have been to several Worldcons. I’m a reader, not a writer, and have completely missed a lot of the politics going on. (Including 2011, when I was one of the Hugo Escorts—yup, got to carry rockets around. I wouldn’t have attended the ceremony otherwise, because it wasn’t central to my enjoyment. Probably won’t attend this one unless I can participate, because again, it’s an awards ceremony, not my thing.) You can have an excellent time at a Worldcon without dealing with politics at all. Or you can engage according to your personal level of desire. Spokane is a lovely… Read more »
Feather Blade
Guest

They’ve got a nice gondola over the falls too. There’s not likely to be much water at that time of year, especially given the dearth of winter precip, but the rock are still pretty.

And there’s a massive carousel in the park! And ducks to feed!

B. Durbin
Guest

Can’t forget the garbage-eating goat.

(I went to college in Spokane and didn’t have a car. However, the campus was right next to the Centennial Trail, about a mile from Riverfront Park, so any time this broke, carless college student was bored, I went to the waterfalls.)

SDN
Guest

Well, at least until they throw you out for making them “feel unsafe”, as happened here. Fortunately, in this country we have several laws and Amendments to the Constitution to allow us to each sue the Worldcon, it’s ConCom, the WSFS, etc. both personally and corporately until they either go bankrupt or decide this game isn’t worth the candle. Teach them what public accommodation and equal access really mean.

Synova
Guest

I won’t be there, but I’m in favor of visual identifiers as a general rule.

Wendell ought to be “in group” enough not to scare the natives.

Lea
Guest

I am waiting to see how this all goes down, because Kansas City next year is quite driveable… But if it just turns into a complete wreck I won’t bother.

Synova
Guest
Kansas City is driveable for me too. I also might be working and thus have funds next year. I *almost* went to World Con in San Jose but we sold our house and moved out of California in June and I didn’t realize I’d missed it until August. (Moving, it sucketh.) If I do go… if you go… it’s really SOOOOO possible to wander about completely alone and isolated next to an imaginary internet friend and never know it. I like the idea of the Wendell shirt because it’s be a great identifier without being off-putting to random passers by.
James May
Guest

You’ll hear more whale music at WorldCon.

Expendable Henchman
Guest
Jon, Alaska Cruise. After an hour of eau du ConStench and standing in lines surrounded by constant arrogant idiocy, you will kick yourself for not cruising. — 1. You have probably never been waterboarded either. It sucks. 2a. A Sad Puppy would conduct himself to the travel agency and inquire about heavily discounted cruise tickets to fill last minute vacancies. 2b. Dignified silence and professionalism is always appreciated by the left. Nothing like a target that won’t scream back. 2c. Polite, forceful engagement with them is like bringing brass knuckles to a gunfight. Brave, stupid and worthless. The ones you… Read more »
Taysha
Guest
You’re not Vox Day, but they’re too scared to go against him, so they go against you. Pretty normal practice for people whose convictions are based on the word of the group. They can swarm, but they can’t stand alone. I’m sorry you have to deal with all of this. I also want to thank you for opening my eyes to the reality of the publishing field I refused to see. I can pretty much say I will, at this point, never be able to publish professionally. As bummed as I am about the epiphany, it hurts less now than… Read more »
Andrew
Guest

You don’t need a publishers opinion to tell you your writing is good, just your fans.

Self publish, keep more money, kick the middlemen out, and be happy. Its easier to do that today than it was five years ago, and there’s a ton of resources out there that are willing and able to help you.

Taysha
Guest

Everyone wants to belong. When your day job doesn’t align with what you really want, the idea of belonging jabs you hard in a little corner of your mind.

‘Belonging’ is now making my stomach turn.

But thank you for the support. It is more appreciated than I have words to describe.

Andrew
Guest
I get a distinct Grouch Marx vine now too when I think about whats going on sometimes. I’m an aspiring writer, doing what I can to work on my craft and improve my storytelling before I put my work out there. I use to dream of belonging to SWFA, and maybe winning an award or two for my works. When Amazon and KDP started, it was a game changer. Heck, I owned a Softbook back in the day, I remember paying $17.99 for a .pdf of a book. I’m on my fifth Kindle right now, and I’m a voracious reader… Read more »
Andrew
Guest

Should be Groucho Marx vibe…sigh…

John C Wright
Guest

“I can pretty much say I will, at this point, never be able to publish professionally.”

Pardon me for being blunt, but humbug. If I can be published, you can be.

These people about whom we complain are on their way out. The reason why there is so much screaming and drama on the Internet is because this is their last cry of panic before the waters of oblivion close over their heads.

jack
Guest
I would pay good money just to read JCW comments. Should not be OT, I think. When the guy [and gal?] over at Worldcon decided to remove JCW work from the nominations based an ‘evolving’ and increased ‘understanding’ of what constitutes published material for Hugos, did they not violate some sort of Worldcon rule about rules? Should not the evolving standard for previously published works up for Hugos be voted on by the members? At a minimum, considering that Scalsi, to name maybe only one, was given a pass some years ago for the same ‘offense’ the least they could… Read more »
Beolach
Guest
Chris Gerrib over on Brad’s blog made two points that I actually agree with regarding this: It’s worth noting that the Hugo admins are (like the rest of Worldcon) unpaid volunteers, trying to run this event in their spare time. I think of them as similar to referees or umpires in sports, doing their best to correctly enforce the rules in an unbiased fashion, but still fallible humans who may make errors. And just because a fan disagrees, doesn’t necessarily mean their call was wrong. As volunteers, I don’t hold the Hugo admins to as high a standard as professional… Read more »
Brian Niemeier
Guest

You are absolutely right. We’re witnessing the old order’s death throes. Like a dying kaiju, its final spasms can be frightening; even destructive.

But if we only endure, SFF will return to the hands of its rightful sovereigns–the readers and the authors.

xServer
Guest
Do you really, honestly, think that’s true? Looking at the societal shifts in the US, and the trend for Millennial values, I greatly doubt it. I feel that, if anything, things will become MORE pro-SJW in future years. There will always be a core group who refuses to shift on these issues and moderates who agree on some points with either one side or another but if statistics on things like support for gay marriage are any indication (and I know that statistics are not the be-all, end-all as they can be easily manipulated but they do seem consistent on… Read more »
Stephen St. Onge
Guest

Taysha said:

I can pretty much say I will, at this point, never be able to publish professionally.

Don’t be too sure of that. There are a lot of “small” sf/f presses being set up recently. And while I am not an author, and thus have no personal knowledge, some of them seem to be quite successful.

The one thing I am sure of is this: if you don’t play, you won’t win.

Expendable Henchman
Guest

Many of the small presses are simply there to rob authors of money and copyrights.

Nowadays, the big publishers don’t do much of anything for anyone who isn’t a star. They generally don’t take anyone who isn’t self-publishing and marketing anyway, so why bother with either.

If you’re good, and you really, really want to get published, Baen and Castalia are around for the non-PC. Amazon is available for the self-promoters.

No need to sign your life away to big evil, in other words.

TallDave
Guest

I’m just finishing The Golden Transcendence, unbelievable I’d never heard of Wright before Sad Puppies.

Now all we need is for Glenn Reynolds to start his own slate: #blendedpuppies!

I denounce all denunciations, including this one.

Bruce
Guest

His Orphans of Chaos trilogy was my first. I was out at a week long training class and saw a Borders when I went out for dinner. Picked up the first book before heading back to the hotel. Went back and picked up the next two the following evening.

Sara the Red
Guest

To quote Erik Avari as the Grand Inquisitor of the Great Underground Empire: “‘Shun magic, and shun the appearance of magic. Shun everything, and then shun shunning.” 😀

Retro_Rocket
Guest
I remember seeing a TV movie about Skokie Illinois. Nazi’s wanted to march and have a political rally in a town where 1 in 6 Jewish residents was a Holocaust survivor. It was intended to be a deliberate affront to public sensibilities. It went to the Supreme Court as a 1st amendment, free speech issue. I was a child then and thought of course you don’t let Nazi’s march in you town. You shoot Nazi’s. That what we did in World War II and it still seems like a good idea. But when I grew up, I eventually recognized that… Read more »
Suburbanbanshee
Guest

Retro Rocket, your info is a little behind the times. You’re thinking of Marion Zimmer Bradley’s pedophile husband, Walter Breen, and his doings.

Last calendar year, Moira Greyland (the daughter) revealed that Bradley had also physically and sexually abused her personally, as well as her brothers.

But yeah, back to your point… as newsmakers, yes, Hitler and Stalin were certainly influential on events in those years, and that is all Time is supposed to be talking about. But did Arafat actually make peace? No, it was another truce and regroup period.

bjlinden
Guest

Slight correction:

Marion Zimmer Bradley *WAS* a child molester. Samuel Delaney still only sympathized with them as far as we know, though.

Stephen J.
Guest

Part of the problem is that everyone has a breaking point. When we are thinking rationally, we can admit the logic that if you don’t protect ideas you hate, you can’t get your ideas protected from others who hate your ideas . . . but most people have at least one idea they hate SO much, or think is SO intrinsically dangerous, that reaction trumps logic and they just want that idea exterminated.

The single greatest danger of Alinsky -style progressivism is that it validates this reaction as licit and acceptable.

JSchuler
Guest
Bad examples. Yasser Arafat winning the Peace Prize for his leadership of the PA is like Hitler winning the Hugo for his festive book burnings. The award was explicitly celebrating actions that were antithetical to the award. Now, if Yasser Arafat had won the international yodeling trophy instead, and he really was a great yodeler, his years of supporting terrorism shouldn’t come into it (aside from the wet-work team dispatched to take him out if he flew to accept it, of course… although it would be inappropriate for the Yodeling Committee to arrange that. Hmm… book idea… The Yodeling Assassin).… Read more »
Patrick Chester
Guest

I remember seeing a TV movie about Skokie Illinois. Nazi’s wanted to march and have a political rally in a town where 1 in 6 Jewish residents was a Holocaust survivor.

I remember another movie. The Nazis had their rally and the Bluesmobile forced them to jump off the bridge into the pond.

Retro Rockets
Guest

I’ll admit, I liked that movie better.

Zsuzsa
Guest

“Illinois Nazis. I hate Illinois Nazis.”

Though I have to give the Blues Brothers credit for being just about the only movie that did the neo-Nazi villain right.

James May
Guest

SP is doing the same thing. I found it amusing that O’Neil at Black Gate finally realized he may have been played, punked and pranked. That guy openly supports the most rancid politically correct feminist bullshit and happily deletes any push back in the comments.

Darius
Guest
Well – FWFW – he let my (first ever) comment out of moderation. It wasn’t hideously condemnatory, but I basically said that referring to what happened as “ballot stuffing” – or even as “block voting” under most definitions, is counterfactual, that I’d enjoyed the articles, but that I felt like pulling out the way they did is a refutation of the support of many of us who voted for them because we thought they were good. As if we were welcome to enjoy them as long as they didn’t have to acknowledge us. And that given the lies, the libel,… Read more »
Eric McLaughlin
Guest

Besides, even if you did, you’d just take his place, and they’d start pushing Brad to distance himself from the horrible unperson Correia. And if he was that stupid, next year they’d be telling Kate to distance herself from him.

The tactic has actually worked very well for them in the past, but most people have learned if you feed your allies to the alligator, you might be eaten last but you’ll still be eaten. Better to team up and kill the damn thing.

Tomas
Guest
I’ve been brought back into the realm of genre fiction mostly by picking up your MHI series, Larry. I’m a political outlier – Catholic Integralist Monarchist with an Authoritarian streak who superficially gets along with conservatives of most sorts until the real underlying philosophy comes out. I’m a libertarian’s worst nightmare, really. I was involved in SP mostly as band wagon guy. And I admit, with the fallout, I regret it. I got in because I thought I was a part of something great, a renewal of genre. I’d left it because I’d sensed far too much liberalism involved and… Read more »
Malcolm the Cynic
Guest

I think it’s slightly disingenuous to say he wasn’t involved – in the lead up to it he was clearly involved in the planning

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Where did you get this impression? What evidence is there of this?

Answers: You don’t, Vox’s public statements of support, and none.

Emily Nelson
Guest

comment for comments.

Ted N
Guest

reply for replies.

trackback

[…] Correia pretty much nailed it with his comments. I can only broaden mine to include “we” because nobody who is on the […]

Rollory
Guest

For all the disagreements I have with him, Vox certainly makes all the right enemies, and he does it with style.

Herb
Guest

I think the SJWs do more to get me back to his blog than anything he writes there would.

Chris
Guest

He really does have an uncanny knack for pissing people off.

James May
Guest

I am honestly surprised how far off base this initiative has gotten. Suddenly it’s all about Left vs. Right. Let me tell you something: that is a battle you will never win. No one has a fundamental right to have the Hugos or Nebulas reflect their politics. When it comes to something like that, you are occupying no moral high ground whatsoever.

#DitchYourRacists

Confutus
Guest
By making this about Vox Day and how he, and everyone he likes, should be banished or burned at the stake for xxx-ism, the powers-that-have-been-and-still-want-to-be and the mob they have created have declared their intent to punish the innocent for the sins of the guilty, and have effectively abandoned the position that this has anything to do with literary merit. On the other hand, those who criticize Annie Bellet and Marko Kloos for withdrawing their nominations because the whole controversy has become too political for the merit to be judged fairly only support the anti-Puppy League’s contention that this is… Read more »
Andrew
Guest

I don’t think she’d do it, but I’d love to see some of the emails Bellett received after being nominated.

I really liked her story, and think she had a better than good chance of winning. It my number one, unless I read something else that I like better.

Pogonip
Guest

Larry, last night I suggested that since your opponents are succeeding in making this about Vox, you leave the Hugos to him and start your own award. I have reconsidered. They’d just find someone else impure and use that person to devalue the Larry award. So if you didn’t already ignore my suggestion, ignore my suggestion. And good luck!

Herb
Guest
I’m not Vox Day You know that. I know that. The SP and RP supporters know that. Vox Day knows that. God and the Devil know that. And the SJW’s know that. The difference is for you, me, SP, RP, Vox Day, God, and the Devil pretending they don’t has not value. The SJW’s do get value from pretending otherwise because their methods have made the Father of Lies blush over their excessive falsehoods. So you’ll have to keep answering. My motivation was not to replace one biased clique with a new biased clique, but rather to get an award… Read more »
James May
Guest
When you let a bunch of people who ardently support N. K. Jemisin, K. Tempest Bradford and a host of others buffalo you over VD, you have lost the game. You have as much as agreed to sign a treaty to abide by separate speeding limits for SP and SJWs. It’s amazing we had these people completely checkmated with no way out and we suddenly declared a draw. There was no reason to sign this treaty. Instead this was the opportunity to bang them over the true heart of the matter. Kloos doesn’t like Day. Really? According to what whirling… Read more »
Dave Alpern
Guest

Larry, you’re the best and most eloquent debaters I’ve seen, but please tell me you didn’t just break Godwin’s Law.

keranih
Guest

didn’t just break Godwin’s law

I had to read that part of LC’s post twice before I got it. I’m not sure one could claim a violation (*) without accepting LC’s premise, in which case his point is made.

(*) Dude. It’s a law of proportionality. It’s broken when a thread goes on for days and *doesn’t* reference Nazis. I dunno why we keep calling it “breaking” the law instead of “fulfilling” it. Esp SFF fans.

Anyway, I suspect Godwin’s law needs a revision, post-Downfall.

Invoking the-mustache-which-must-not-be-named seems required now – it’s not really a good fight until someone’s done a parody.

bjlinden
Guest
Godwin’s law is a joke. Literally. It’s a joke that says, “wow, some people sure are quick to make Nazi comparisons, aren’t they?” It is NOT a “law” that you can break or not break, which renders an argument logically unsound. People immediately invoking Godwin’s Law every time someone draws comparisons to the Nazis is far more harmful to rational discourse than all the inappopriate Nazi comparisons you could ever possibly imagine. Those who fail to remember the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it, and if you cannot draw comparisons to one of the most important historical events… Read more »
James May
Guest

Godwin’s Law ignores the fact people are trying to draw parallels to an intellectual and philosophical space which creates hatred by mainstreaming hate speech.

Instead they go straight to genocide and give over with the LOLs. There’s a shitload of harm that falls short of mass murder. It is not an either or proposition.

slarrow
Guest
Stay the course, Larry. Your opponents know you’re not Vox, but they’d rather have you fighting him than fighting them. He’s not on your team (which he said last week–“Larry and Brad are not my pack, but they are allies”), but he has supported your team. He’s linked to your book bombs and your fiskings and your vigorous defenses of Sad Puppies. In his very introduction of the Rabid Puppies slate, he acknowledged the disagreement over the “optimal” way to combat the decay in the field but pointed out a lot of convergence in your recommendations because you all “we… Read more »
Lotharloo
Guest
I hear the claim that “enemies drove off Marko Kloos and Annie Bellet”, and the variations, over and over again. I understand it is a very nice talking point to have, but didn’t you read their actual words that described their actual reasons behind leaving? For Marko it was pretty clear (and he very strongly worded it too) that it was because of VD’s involvement so if you want to blame someone blame VD. He also explicitly said that he has no problem with SP and implied that he would not have done it if VD had not wedged himself… Read more »
slarrow
Guest
Neighbor, when Annie Bellet writes, “I don’t want to have to think over every tweet and retweet, every blog post, every word I say. I don’t want to cringe when I open my email”, do you honestly think it’s Sad Puppies or Rabid Puppies driving her to that? Do you think the people who nominated her story are the ones pushing her to decline the nomination? As for Kloos, if he does mean what he initially stated, then it’s no loss that he’s off the ballot. “I decline my nomination because I don’t like my voters” is a rather pissy… Read more »
Lotharloo
Guest
Regarding Annie, you are just *assuming* that she gave up based on reactions from the opponents of SP. I think it is likely that some people emailed her asking to drop out, but is also possible that the hostile environment and the very political nature of the debate also discouraged her. At anyrate, she is not explicit enough that you can confidently “pin” her dropping out to the anti SP group. And that is the whole point, if you want to make such a claim as the anti-SP group “put” Annie out, then you are lacking evidence to back it… Read more »
Synova
Guest

Shorter Lotharloo…

“The fear isn’t real! The fear isn’t real!”

And that after having come here to demand that people disavow Vox, or else be branded by association.

Because guilt by association is so civilized.

But… “The fear isn’t real!”

Gotcha, bucko.

Lotharloo
Guest

@Syvona:
I can understand why people here get so defensive whenever VD is brought up, however, I did never demand that people here should disown VD. I posted his silly and offensive statements to show that how natural is it for someone like Marko to not want to have anything to do with him and I also applauded him on that decision.
That was it. But somehow mentioning even the name of VD brings back memories of trauma and feelings being accused of guilt by association.

Lea
Guest

I doubt either would have dropped out if the whole of fandom had been decent to them. If there hadn’t been numerous articles bashing the entire thing. Linking to lists with their names on them. Of they hadn’t had people sending private emails and making public comments.

James May
Guest

“Beer is the mind-killer” – Beer Gessirit aphorism

Uncle Lar
Guest
Just to summarize the facts, a small select ever so special exclusionary clique managed to game the Hugo process, not by controlling the votes, but by controlling the nominations. They used the Hugo to award each other and those few writers who delivered the messages they in their infinite wisdom approved of. Had this been all that they did the rest of us would have probably simply shrugged and if we thought about the Hugos at all it would have been remember when they meant something. But just owning the Hugos wasn’t enough, they had to make the claim that… Read more »
Brian Niemeier
Guest

An apt summation. Contacting you could’ve saved Entertainment Weekly a world of hurt!

Chris
Guest

What a waste of time. It’s too bad you need to spend any portion of your life stating the obvious in terms that a group of 4 year old children could understand. Smdh…

Matthew
Guest

Consider: these are people whose first instinct is that everything must be centrally organized. The idea that people might go off and do their own thing doesn’t even occur to them.

Kristophr
Guest

It does occur to them.

Organizations they do not control are the enemy, and must be eradicated.

Shane
Guest
As a libertarian and casual Sci-Fi fan, it shocked me to read about this whole mess at lewrockwell.com. To learn that the SJWs (the MOST bigoted, hateful, dishonest, intolerant and yes, racist folks I’ve come across) have even gotten their talons into Sci-Fi so that they can censor un-PC authors appalls me…these people just won’t be satisfied until everyone is as miserable as they are in the gray, colorless, humorless world they’re seeking to create for us all. Good for you, Larry and SPs, for standing up to the SJW bullies who never engage in rational argumentation but seek to… Read more »
Reziac
Guest

Link:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/04/allan-davis/leftists-attack-libertarian-sci-fi/

And that grey colorless world is why utopians are the most frightening people on the planet.

Shane
Guest

Thanks, should’ve posted link myself.

Brian Niemeier
Guest
Thank you, Shane. The SJWs’ infiltration of the Hugos is shocking–especially their threat to vote No Award en masse to make sure no one wins. You can still take action to stop them. The Hugos belong to Worldcon, and Worldcon is everyone who buys a membership. $40 supporting memberships are available here: https://sasquan.swoc.us/sasquan/reg.php Becoming a supporting member now grants you voting rights this year and nominating rights next year. The con admins are preparing a packet of the nominated works for all voters, which is free with registration. Voting doesn’t close until July, so there’s plenty of time to read… Read more »
Fruitbat44
Guest

I know have that scene from ‘Spartacus’ replaying through my mind . . .

” . . . not to replace one biased clique with a new biased clique . . .rather to get an award . . . to represent more of fandom . . . ”

A noble goal.

Zoidberg
Guest
Why is Jemisin a racist? Every quote from her that I’ve seen which is supposedly “racist” is just her accusing other people of being racist. Usually wrongly, but that doesn’t make her racist. Being oversensitive is not the same as being a bigot. KTB is a whole different ballgame, she’s definitely prejudiced against white people and it would be nice if more progressive fans would acknowledge that. The weird thing to me is that you spend a lot of time writing about your disagreements with someone like GRRM, when I think you’re closer to him in a lot of your… Read more »
James May
Guest

You need to get over to Jemisin’s site right now and read her Hugo post. It is disturbing, as is all of Jemisin’s writing.

In the midst of all this stuff about Day, it is begging to be fisked, especially since Kowal is in the comments with a high-five and Jemisin states “racism is our status quo.” In other words white Americans are racists.

Next, read her Wiscon Guest of Honor speech. That is remarkable to say the least, and completely distorts the facts of her career and that of Samuel Delany.

Zoidberg
Guest

Again, I don’t see how it could possibly be racist to say that there is a lot of racism. She might be wrong about how much racism there is, but how could that mean she’s racist?

I’ve read the Wiscon speech, and again, I don’t agree with it but I don’t see any evidence of prejudice. She’s just a radical leftist, that doesn’t maker her racist.

Slime
Guest

Her argument is that acknowledging that some people care more about a writer’s race, gender, or sexuality than the merit of their work means you think “underrepresented writers couldn’t possibly just be good enough to have earned awards on the merits of their writing, so the only reason they’ve gotten nominated is because they’re [check a box].”

(It’s also worth noting that the “quoted” text she said this in response to was never said by Torgersen at all. She even admits to never having actually read what he said.)

Doug Loss
Guest

That’s not a rational argument (Jemisin’s), it’s just her trying to set up another strawman.

James May
Guest

I apologize in advance Zoldberg, but anyone who can read that delusional bit of white hatred and not see any evidence of prejudice isn’t even worth talking to.

Zoidberg
Guest
OK. The word ‘white’ scarcely even appears in that Wiscon speech. I’ll reproduce all the appearences here: “But it has been almost twenty years since his prophetic announcement, and in that time all of society — not just the microcosm of SFF — has racheted toward that critical, threatening mass in which people who are not white and not male achieve positions of note. And indeed we have seen science fiction and fantasy authors and editors and film directors and game developers become much, much more explicit and hostile in their bigotry. We’ve seen that bigotry directed not just toward… Read more »
James May
Guest

Zoldberg, there is so much bullshit in that speech I can’t list it all. But I will say both her and Delany were showered with awards from the very onset of their careers. So no “careers have been strangled at birth.”

James May
Guest

You don’t see how it benefits a racial bigot to exaggerate how immoral their opponents are?

Zoidberg
Guest

Literally all I’m saying is that the speech isn’t racist. I’m not saying it’s a good speech, I’m saying it’s not racist.

I didn’t say there wasn’t any bullshit in the speech. I said it wasn’t racist. Is it racist to be wrong about whether people’s careers have been strangled by racism?

Is it racist to exaggerate how immoral your political opponents are?

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest

It is racist to argue against honoring or reading white authors specifically because they are white.

Doug Loss
Guest

Zoidberg, if you can’t see the blatant racism in her speech there is no hope for you understanding English at all.

James May
Guest

There’s not even such a thing as white people. It’s just SJWs throwing American Jim Crow over the entire world and its history. It ignores a multiplicity of language and culture from Moscow to Lisbon and people living all over the world in every country.

Lotharloo
Guest
What’s so wrong about her post? It is a bit on the extreme side, e.g., she ignores that a lot of the “affirmative action” enjoyed by white males is subconscious and that minorities and women also in many cases discriminate against the minorities and women while overrating contributions from white males (because in many cases it is not deliberate!). So certainly white males cannot be blamed for all the existing inequalities. But as other posters say, you cannot blame her for being too sensitive. The biggest troubling part was that she lumped everyone on the SP in one group and… Read more »
Suburbanbanshee
Guest

There is a difference between “too sensitive” and “false accusations and blatant calumny about innocent strangers minding their own business.”

Fluttershy the pony is too sensitive.

N.K. Jemisin doesn’t remind anyone of Fluttershy.

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest

Yeah, I don’t think that anyone is going to be making N. K. Jemisin plushies any time soon. And I think that if Discord was ever forced to hang out with her, he’d conclude rather rapidly that evil was more fun than good.

James May
Guest

Nothing. Go back to sleep.

Joshua
Guest

Ah, one of the lighter moments in the debate. I do like GamerGators better than GamerGaters. Someone should make a Sad Puppies-like logo of GamerGators.

Will
Guest

I am not Rand Paul.

HJP
Guest

Speaking of Stalin, perhaps the SPs and SJWs can come together and put Harry Turtledove’s Joe Steele on a unity ticket next year. Both sides have someone in-universe to root for.

Bruce
Guest

“I’m not going to burn anyone in effigy. Stop asking.”

(Looking over at the effigy of myself on the workbench…): “Awww, son of a…”

clif
Guest

well I’m afraid that if you really want to use this analogy ..

“Look at it like this. I’m Churchill. Brad is FDR. We wound up on the same side as Stalin.”

you’ll have to become Mussolini to VD’s Hitler … I mean come on both Churchill and FDR were liberals! If you want real right-wing conservatism, you can’t beat Hitler.

Matthew
Guest

I’m gonna guess you’ve never actually read Hitler’s campaign platform. Leaving out the rhineland bit, most of it looks like it could have been lifted straight from Canada’s NDP or the US’s Democrats.