I have repeated this stuff dozens of times, but apparently I need to repeat it again.
The Sad Puppies 3 campaign is a separate and different entity than the Rabid Puppies campaign.
I started Sad Puppies a few years ago. My goal was to demonstrate that the awards were biased, represented the likes of only one small part of fandom, and that authors with the wrong politics who got on the ballot would be attacked. All of that has been demonstrated rather conclusively.
Brad Torgersen ran Sad Puppies 3, and I was one of the people who helped. The mission changed, and Brad’s main goal was to get deserving, worthy authors who would normally be ignored onto the ballot, regardless of their politics.
Vox Day ran a separate campaign called Rabid Puppies.
I believe that RP started with most of existing SP3 suggested slate, and then added more works that they liked. But I can’t speak for them.
Vox Day himself was not on the SP3 slate.
I believe 3 short fiction works from his publishing house were on our suggested slate. They were on our suggested slate because we thought they were very good.
Vox Day was on a prior SP suggestion slate, because I liked his novelette that year, and the SP2 slate was pretty much just my personal suggestions.
The Sad Puppies campaign doesn’t endorse anybody’s politics. Our slate had people from everything, left, right, middle, and question mark. We only cared if the works were good.
I personally do not agree with Vox on a wide variety of topics.
I do not speak for him.
I do not control him.
He does what he wants.
We have argued about this topic. You know the situation has gotten weird when I’m the voice of moderation.
I cannot disown what I do not own.
I neither condone nor defend any of his public statements. I did not make them.
Of course I do not like some of the things he has said.
Do you think the existence of Rabid Puppies has somehow made my life easier?
I’m not going to burn anyone in effigy. Stop asking.
I’m not going to condemn anyone by association. Stop asking.
When two assholes collide, I shouldn’t have to take a side, declare one a sainted victim, and the other the devil aggressor. Stop asking me to.
I’ve said all of the above before.
My personal politics are on record. I have been involved in politics. I’ve written about my personal beliefs a lot. I am very opinionated. Those are my personal beliefs. I stand by them. Since this has started reporters have combed through everything I’ve ever written, trying to find something sexist, racist, or homophobic to use against me, and they haven’t found anything. Why? Because they aren’t there. Because I’m not.
I recommended someone’s short story. You do not like his belief. I can defend my liking his short story, but I cannot, and should not have to account for the author’s personal beliefs. A giant group of other authors, who are also not affiliated with him, should not be assigned his beliefs and be attacked for them.
However, I can believe that all authors have the right to free speech. That includes people who say stuff I don’t like or agree with. I have a giant list of authors I disagree with. I have done so, loudly, and often. We should all be free to disagree without the danger of purges, defamation, and career sabotage. As far as I am aware, Vox Day hasn’t ever called for censorship or tried to ruin any author’s career. I cannot however, say that same thing for others.
Authors should not be attacked for the crime of being recommended by someone you don’t like. That is asinine. The only questions should be, is the work good? Is the work award worthy? Yes? Good. Then quit yelling at them. I was told by one of his supporters yesterday that Vox is also a fan of Umberto Eco and China Mieville. Better break out the torches and pitchforks!
I cannot explain his quotes or his public statements because I did not formulate them, do not hold them myself, and I did not write them. Unlike my critics, I do not claim to read minds.
I cannot purge him. First, I don’t believe in purges. Second, I believe in free speech, warts and all. And third, since he isn’t part of my campaign, I’ve got nothing to purge him from.
Let me clarify something. When I say something to the effect about how it would be awful nice to see normal people on the other side condemn the outlandish, racist, stupid, hateful, threatening things that hundreds on their side have said, I don’t actually expect them to. They don’t own other people’s comments either. Normally when I bring that up, it is out of frustration, because I’m expected to ritually shun someone who is nominally on my side of the debate for saying mean things, while all those on the other side saying things just as bad or worse, are given a pass. That is hypocritical.
For the one loudmouth I’m being demanded to account for, just among the award winning and nominated folks on the other side you’ve got NAMBLA supporters, psychopathic trolls, and a whole mess of racists… But Brad and I are the ones who need to anoint ourselves with ash and perform the ritual of shame? No. Buzz off.
Look at it like this. I’m Churchill. Brad is FDR. We wound up on the same side as Stalin.
SP3 has been accused of trying to sweep the nominations. First, we didn’t have 5 in most of the categories, and when we did, it was because we had a ton of good suggestions and honestly thought all of them were awesome. Second, we did not expect to do as good as we did. Our showing was a surprise. Some of the categories were not swept by SP, but rather a combination of SP and RP noms, and SP had no control over that. Note, that isn’t an apology. That is a clarification. They are fans too, they spent their $40 like everyone else, and they voted for what they wanted.
And believe me, if I was surprised by how many fans SP brought, I was really surprised by what RP pulled off.
John C. Wright is also not Vox Day. Sad Puppies did not get him a record number of nominations. I believe we had him for 3 items in novella, short, and related work, and all of them were excellent. Wright picked up more nominations beyond that, which again, my campaign had no control over. He is now tied for most in one year. However, Wright is an excellent author, who has been around about as long as Charles Stross, but he is normally ignored at awards time. So rather than bitch and moan about him getting several noms, why don’t you actually read the works to see how good they are and vote honestly?
My motivation was not to replace one biased clique with a new biased clique, but rather to get an award that everyone—up until two weeks ago—claimed represented all of fandom, to represent more of fandom. I suppose the one way that I do have to accept responsibility for Vox Day is that I’m the one who demonstrated to all the outsiders just how little and cliquish the system actually was.
So in conclusion, we are not Vox Day. Quit trying to make us the same. Vox Day is Vox Day. If you have any problems with him, take it up with him.
It’s absolutely pathetic that you felt like you had to say something like this, Larry. Absolutely pathetic.
There’s no way any of us should have to announce that we’re not Vox Day. Especially considering all the digital ink spilled saying so previously. You shouldn’t have had to do it again.
And what’s really pathetic? This whole post won’t accomplish a damn thing, because they’ll still equate you and Brad with Vox.
Wuck? You want to clarify “pathetic?” It’s certainly sad that SJWs are pulling the Alinsky tactics and Larry has to remind them about basic logic.
The left cannot tolerate logic. No matter how much you remind them it exists, they will continue to ignore it.
The one I like best is when they make some wild assertion, then crow, “Prove I’m wrong!” I always say, “You don’t get how debate works, do you? You made the assertion, I challenged it, the onus is on YOU to prove what you said, not on me to refute it. Till you do, what you said must be assumed to be untrue.”
B…b…but logic is a racist, sexist, homophobic tool of the cisgendered patriarchy. We do not need bourgeois truth! We need revolutionary truth!
/SJW*nker mode off
You’ve been listening to Elizabeth Warren again, haven’t you?
Logic will not work. It is viewed as hatred and evil (note, there is no sarcasm).
The fact do not matter to them, only the hate does. They hate Larry, and most of us, because we don’t hate as they do.
While I am saddened that anyone would perceive a need to make this differentiation, but I find myself often saddened by the state of humanity at times.
On the other hand, I find new reasons to love Larry’s writing in each of these blog posts. I really love this analogy: “Look at it like this. I’m Churchill. Brad is FDR. We wound up on the same side as Stalin.”
Well said.
That is a good one. (Now waiting to see how it gets misconstrued by the other side…)
Larry says, “Vox Day is Vox Day. If you have any problems with him, take it up with him.”
But they won’t. How many of VD’s detractors have actually argued their points with VD himself? Time and again I hear (paraphrased) “I don’t feel safe going to VD’s site.” So the answer is not very many, because it’s so much safer to fling poo at an effigy (where in this case, Larry is doing duty as the effigy).
They tried that. Vox is a racist, but he’s not a stupid racist.
Every time they go their to howl at him, he hands them their heads.
There, not their … bloody hell ….
This is the sort of thing he loves. A bit like how Hunter Thompson would have reacted to a major, 1 hour prime time Nixon speech denouncing the Rolling Stone*.
*for you lefties out there.
You used their correctly..
I used “their” twice. The first usage was incorrect.
Every racist is a stupid racist. Believing in race, a concept that was made up for financial gain, when science has proven there is no basis for racial differentiation, is the mark of a simple mind.
Hmmm… “disqualify”, “attack” and bordering on “make sh*t up”
Well, coming from someone who can’t use a common standard of racism for speech independent of the speaker, I don’t expect you to follow deeper logic in arguments either
Hey, weren’t you in the previous thread demanding that people disavow Vox because he (like the Democrats do) figure that women pretty much only vote with their vaginas?
People don’t feel safe GOING TO A WEBSITE?
Will evil spirits haunt them, or will the Abominable Dr. Day leap directly out of the monitor to kill them?
It is 2015, shouldn’t the Cyberpunk stuff be coming out? Cyberlimbs, cyberdecks, black ice…
Hee hee. Nice Reference!
@Brian
The Firestarter program would set the unfortunate user on fire, though it would be most effective if the user was using a neural interface.
Will destroy shadowy conspiracies 4 Adam Jensen augments…
Watch for Operation Screaming Fist, coming soon to blogs near you.
Not my circus, not my monkeys
I get metaphor but I suspect that many will go, “mmm so true, Vox is a Sallin” You go Larry, call it how you see it.
Maybe you should use the language that the Hugo gate keepers willl understand better:
You are Augusto Pinochet, Brad is King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud
Was having a drink of tea at the moment I read that. I literally had to wipe my face after laughing back into my mug.
Well played Correia! (Great metaphor!)
It isn’t that simple. SP and RP have very similar logos, shared some of the same nominations, and had been mentioned here as the “even more eevul” slate with a couple of recommendations from the RP list. It was NOT OBVIOUS to an outsider that the lists were unrelated without disclaimers of this sort.
Yes I understand that NOW. But it was very hard to know that when the Hugo nominations came out. I suspect this is what happened to EW too.
Assuming EW means Entertainment Weekly then it probably would have helped if they had bothered to talk to someone… anyone… on this side of the issue before going to print.
From personal experience in completely unrelated matters, I know many “journalists” are so intellectually lazy that they will basically republish a press release almost verbatim if it looks like it fits their preconceptions.
“They would have needed to do research on the story before accurately representing it, so therefore it’s understandable that they did not do the research on the story before accurately representing it.”
* minus the second “accurately”
My kingdom for an edit function.
Journalism today isn’t about accuracy. It’s about collecting as many eyeballs as possible to sell to advertisers. Cuz for journalists, YOU are the product.
Outrage works much better than truth as a means of gluing eyeballs to the screen. Therefore journalism today looks for outrage first and foremost, and for truth only incidentally, or if truth will provoke further outrage.
Are you claiming that Vox Day suggested only voting for straight white guys, as suggested in the EW story? If so, a citation would be nice.
OK, then, “You’re wrong.” That’s what Brad did. It was called SP3. Others trashed it, and you come along and appear to think that what they did was what Brad wanted. Ah well, life is like that.
You didn’t bother to read what Larry said about Sad Puppies and why he did what he did.
Consider yourself gonged. Exit’s to the left.
Oh look, yet another concern troll whining about how it Messrs. Correia’s and Torgerson’s fault that the Flaming Douchnozzles of Tolerance are acting like sociopaths.
please delete my ptevious post. it went incomplete. please accept my apology for carelessness.
I’m personally astonished by how easy it was to massively change the nominations, which in turn shows just how small a pool was voting for the Hugos. And the angry desperation with which this is being met by those who are members of the previous in-group demonstrates that they lack much in the way of support out of their own tiny faction.
As the saying used to go in the Society for Creative Anacronism, the politicking and infighting was so fierce because the stakes were so small.
In this case, you’re seeing egos who are used to ‘controlling’ who gets the Hugos finding they don’t have the power they used to have. And authors who have been GOHs on the Con circuit for ages seeing their potential GOH slots threatened.
This is unacceptable, so regretfully the Sad Puppies Must Die so They can continue being the apex of Fandom.
SJWs are like all leftists: they are Satanists in the Miltonian sense.
They would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.
The Hugos and WorldCon is the proof of this. They’d rather burn the award down to keep it to themselves than share it with the broader fandom.
You know, at this point burning the award down doesn’t sound like such a bad thing.
because they are the first green shoots of the tipping point, where liberalism is being shown to the greater, wider world, even beyond gamers and scifi fans, to be absurd, totalitarian, intellectually and morally bankrupt, and populated by childish, mentally ill, rabbity bullies and petty tyrants who are, nonetheless, paper tigers who are relatively easily defeated once one finally wakes up and realizes the need to do so.
Does that make SP, #GamerGate, and the D&D fans who fought a similar purge last summer the early settlers who are taking the arrows?
Dangit! I missed the D&D drama! What happened there?
Herb–Perhaps I missed something, but the D&D drama last summer felt like a combination of other issues and the Revolution starting to eat its children. The two ‘gentlemen’ that the SJWs went after despise social conservatives as much as the SJWs do.
Is there a good writeup of the D&D drama? I seem to have missed it.
OK; looked up the D&D drama. I’m not sure if that’s really the same thing at all. That’s SJWs eating their own, and nobody taking a really principled stand over the imbecility of a witch-hunt of fellow SJWs who may possibly have made some “trans-gender” gamer feel bad once. Or who might do so in the future, at least.
Although any non-SJWs watching might have had their eyes opened, it still seems more likely that they’re still concerned that secretly they may be “transphobists” or the victims of some equally stupid made-up malady.
And THIS is what they’re pushing out of the running in all their ‘tolerance’ and ‘diversity’.
http://www.johnjosephadams.com/free_ebooks/Goodnight_Stars_Annie_Bellet.pdf
That’s good stuff – well worthy of Analog 20 years ago.
(Darn. I’ve reached OldeFartDom… 🙁 )
> I’m personally astonished by how easy it was to
> massively change the nominations
I also think it was a sign of a lot of deep-felt frustration with the Hugo nominations these last few years.
Four words:
Redshirts, “Best Novel”, 2013.
PS – That’s when *I* knew the Hugos were “broken”.
First rule of a vote fight, bring your vote.
Second rule of a vote fight, bring friends with votes.
Well said. Just sorry you have to keep saying it…
Keep writing those dynamite fun books and know that you’ve got a huge fan base that know what you’re saying, agree and agree with it.
NEXT YEAR I’m getting a membership, when the packet comes I’ll have someone black out the names of the authors so I have no idea what I’m reading and vote the Best Stories.
Best regards,
The Captain
“I have repeated this stuff dozens of times, but apparently I need to repeat it again.”
You’ll have to do it till the cats come home.
“Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.” Aristotle
Well at least now I’ve got it in one convenient place so I can just paste the link.
Probably not helpful to link to a clip of “Cool Hand Luke”, eh?
I bet I cn ate fitty aigs!
“What we have here is a failure to communicate.”
*BANG*
#JeNeSuisPasVoxDay 🙂
But Larry, if you’re REALLY not VD, why haven’t we ever seen you in the same room together? (And of course, if we did that would mean that you have identical beliefs and support each other in all things…)
Do I really have to say “sarcasm?”
Biggest reason you’ve never seen us in the same room together is because we’ve never met in person.
You guys also kind of live on 2 different continents separated by a fairly large ocean and I dont think Vox really leaves Europe these days.
i thought you were vox day (secret identity), larry correia was your super hero i.d.
(and when are you going to start wereing a cape. sarah hoyt weres a cape)
No capes!
\edna mode
And no weres! (except Earl Harbinger … and Heather)
Or vampires!
(unless played by Bela Lugosi)
“Gosh Miss Lane. isn’t it funny how you never see Larry Correia and Vox Day togeth–” *THUD*
“Oh, Jimmy….”
Concern troll is concerned! Why you no join witch hunt?
If you think Vox being a dick is more dangerous than a clique of scifi writers, then you’ve probably never seen those scifi writers go after someone’s career before, so I’m guessing you lack perspective.
And that “clique of scifi writers” is specifically why I use the term SJW to differentiate them from normal, sane liberals.
Move on Concern Troll. I’ve responded to all this before. You bore me.
It reeks of hyperbole says the man talking about parasites sucking people dry. 🙂
As for gong after someone’s career, that’s been covered a bunch. So I can either take the time to type out something that I and a dozen other authors have talked about for years ( I recommend searching through Mad Genius Club or Sarah Hoyt’s Scarlet Letters post) OR instead of repeating myself to somebody who probably doesn’t care, I could spend my time writing stuff that pays me, or at least debating with somebody who has a clue.
Hmm… Tough one.
It should be pointed out (since it is unfortunately not obvious) that the kinds of freedoms SciFi writers enjoy only exit in Western Civilization and nowhere else.
I wonder why you are willing to so openly associate yourself with David Futrelle, an openly bigoted man-hater?
Um, yeah, linking to Dave Futrelle is not going to buy you a lot of credibility around here.
I’m waiting for the next revision to the Narrative here.
I’m betting on “Vox Day is a sock puppet controlled by Correia via the Orbital Mind Control Lasers”.
Because you’re OBVIOUSLY a 1%er attached to the Military-Industrial Complex. . . . (evil grin)
No, no, get your facts straight. It’s Larry who is under the control of Vox’s mind-control lasers on behalf of the GamerGate/Reptilian/Rotarian axis.
The “GamerGate/Reptilian/Rotarian” axis, eh? What’s the PUFF one one of those (waiting for the MHI story where it turns out the British Royal Family really *is* composed of reptilian aliens like the ones in V)
Doctor who writers already turned the royal family into werewolves….. Its really more a fun question of how they stay PUFF exempt.
Actually, its a fun mental experiment to wonder how ANY politician stays PUFF exempt…
“GamerGate/Reptilian/Rotarian military axis G.R.R.M for short.
Wait it shows who was behind this the whole time.
I don’t know FNORD what you are referring to.
Quiet! We’re trying to immanentize the Eschaton here !!
he is after all the Galactic Lord of Evil…note promotion
Why isn’t John Scalzi writing a post called “I’m not N. K. Jemisin”?
#DitchYourRacists
Because maybe he is! And K. Tempest Bradford too!
Because only Right Wingers have guilt by association. Left Wingers simply denounce and move on.
And besides, N.K. Jemwhatsit has been “rehabilitated” back into the GoodThink fold. Poor strayed lamb, you meanies leave her/him/it alone!
Meanies!!!
Was Jemisin ever *out* of the fold?
Hell, they even welcomed back Requires Hate with open arms.
Here’s something interesting from an editor at Tor-UK:
http://www.torbooks.co.uk/blog/2013/07/10/sexism-in-genre-publishing-a-publishers-perspective
I pointed this out to someone who was crying “sexism in publishing” and even with hard numbers staring her in the face it was still “well, we’re not being given a chance” (and regoaled to “sexism in reviewing”).
Glah! What Aristotle said.
So my performance anxiety is a survival trait and not a character flaw?
I saw someone on another blog (it was boring, didn’t bookmark it for notes) insisting that okay, so Larry Correia is right, Vox isn’t on Sad Puppies. BUT, she insisted, LARRY CORREIA HAS NOT SAID THAT VOX WASN’T INVOLVED IN THE PLANNING PROCESS! Proof of guilt!
Yep. Logic. It’s useful for more than making Vulcans seem weird.
Larry also didn’t say that he’s not a humaniform robot remote-controlled by Vox. And even if he did say it, it wouldn’t mean anything — he might just be a humaniform robot controlled by Vox, after all! :O
Planning process? Brad took suggestions for the slate on his blog.
But learning that would require reading Brad’s blog and being exposed to his “hate speech”.
…and nano-aggressions. Don’t forget the nano-aggressions.
No no I’m certain she means the secret meetings held in dark gun smoke filled rooms. 😉 You know the ones that only happened in her imagination.
Dark gun smoke filled rooms? Shooting ranges? And I wasn’t invited? I’m hurt, I really am…
It’s okay, Doug, I wasn’t invited also, and I’m Larry and Brad’s friend!
Well Sarah, anytime you’re down in east Tennessee, bring the family on over and we’ll pot at a few cans. 🙂
Sarah, they only want you to THINK that, while they exploit your Vajayjay and Hispanic credentials. As “cover” for their obvious “racism” and “misogyny”. . .
(and I halfway expect one of the Social Justice Trolls to say something like that any day now. . .)
Now I’m picturing everyone shouting to be heard over ear pro:
“HOW ‘BOUT KEVIN J. ANDERSON?”
(bang! bangbang! bang!)
“DEVIN K. SANDERSON? NEVER HEARD OF HIM!”
Keith Glass–Two weeks ago, on a message board I frequent(ed), I saw someone say
“I do know the Sad Puppies nominated some people solely as a screen so they couldn’t be accused of racism or sexism. That’s why Jen Brozak got nominated by them, much to her dismay.”
M.L. Martin — I saw that same quote (I’ve forgotten where but I expect it’s migrated) … hello, who’s feeding the conspiracy theories now??
And howcum after comment nesting gets to a certain point, the Reply link vanishes??
@Reziac:
So
we
don’t
see
things
like
this.
@Beolach
You owe me a new keyboard. And now I have to explain to my coworkers why I just fell out of my chair giggling like a fiend. Took me back to my lj days when I’d find myself with my head on my right shoulder reading posts
one
word
at
a
time.
i
t
c
o
u
l
d
b
e
w
o
r
s
e
.
I’m pretty sure Larry Correia has also never said that he isn’t planning a ritual sacrifice of 17 rabbits to Sasquatch for every Sad Puppy nominee that gets the Hugo. Therefore, we must infer that he is, and vote “No Award” to save the bunnies!
I heard it was goats.
I heard it was fluffy kittens.
Mmmm, fluffy kittens–the tastiest kind of kittens…
Ewoks. If only he’d sacrificed ewoks, everyone would be in agreement.
But if you sacrificed Ewoks Ace of Spades would be upset.
What’s the PUFF bounty on Ewoks, anyway?
But I have it on good authority that Bunnies aren’t just cute like everybody supposes. After all, they’ve got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses. And what’s with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
ISWYDT.
And since shortness isn’t allowed I’ll finish..
Bunnies! Bunnies it must be bunnies.
Or maybe midgets.
WAIT… you sacrifice the rabbits (goats, chickens, bunnies, fluffy kittens, etc.) BEFORE the vote to win the hugo. not afterwards. that is a celebration not a sacrifice.
And remember you’re not allowed to burn them! small animals /= burning!
( hides the Flamenwerfer )
If you’re burning small animals, then you’re doing barbecue wrong.
Sacrificing rabbits to Sasquatch? Oh geez, River Shoulders is going to be pissed. His people have enough stigmas already.
Was that the blog that went:
Vox is part of the Evil League of Evil, he even has a title.
The Puppies said the Evil League of Evil planned SP3.
They did not say that Vox was not part of the planning.
Therefore Vox was obviously part if the planning.
?
The logic there is flimsy at best.
Aaaaand we’re back with not playing in traffic or setting small animals on fire.
Should I go ahead and put CM on standby…?
Wes you wrote:
“Should I go ahead and put CM on standby…?”
What is CM?
Check out the comment thread here. Warning: be sure you’re somewhere you can laugh hysterically without anyone calling the guys from the local asylum.
Achillea linked a recent incarnation. The original is here:
http://coldservings.livejournal.com/55352.html
Could possibly be the greatest thread hijacking of all time, and explains why most citizens of Monster Hunter Nation respect / fear a Muppet ; )
sSD
Achillea, Drake, thanks for finding the links for me. I didn’t have time to respond to Emily last night, alas…
I now have a new appreciation of the cookie monster.
And here is furry operator singing with Rammstein:
https://youtu.be/1ZeciX-3wfs
Damn, isn’t that going a bit overboard? That dude is *crazy*!
Sorry to hear people don’t understand the concept of individual identity. Its stupid, excessively stupid and shouldn’t be falling in anyone’s lap.
Maybe someday people will realize that someone can enjoy one part of something(Vox’s novel) without that meaning that the person has to condone everything else from A-Z involving that person.
At least I can hope someday everyone can figure that out.
But people are widgets, that can be sorted by skin color and sexual preference and equipment! Within those groups they all think the same.
And of course you can’t enjoy someone’s work unless they rightthink and you agree with everything they say. Good Lord, Man, haven’t you been paying attention to the awards these last few years?
/sarcasm off.
Wait, wait, I thought you couldn’t sort by equipment because some people discover they have the wrong equipment and should be sorted as if they had they other equipment so you have to sort by equipment but not the actual equipment but the equipment they say they’re supposed to have.
I’m so confused.
Narrative always trumps reality. >.<
You’re making my head hurt, and I’m a woman. So you’re sexissssss and your argument is invalid.
Sarah Hoyt wins that exchange, but only by a hair.
Sarah, having heard your accent on that podcast the other day I’m adding it to your comments. And I must say, the results are absolutely hilarious.
That you’re saying what I’m thinking just makes it all the more hilarious. HoytSpeak. In my head. Bwahaha!!!!
It’s a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder, except instead of pigeonholing other stuff, they pigeonhole people. (And I’m being serious, sad to say.) And you can’t be pigeonholed until they’ve drilled down to your specific traits (if you’re blessed) or flaws (if you’re cursed) by which to be sorted. If you lack, frex, big racism, they have to keep at it until they find your little racism, cuz otherwise they don’t know how to pigeonhole you.
(With apologies to pigeons…)
The truth doesn’t matter to The Opposition.
It is good to know where they stand. They’ve made themselves clear.
We are dinosaurs. We are not welcome. We are to be silenced. And if possible, destroyed.
It is as I always suspected. It is good to know where I stand.
And for that, Larry and Brad both, I thank you for your efforts.
Respects,
Steven Francis Murphy
On the Outer Marches
This this this!!!
Please remember that the opposition isn’t the rest of us. I’ve been fighting these people quietly for years and losing.
Thanks for all of you that have brought the fight out into the light.
Thank you for reminding us that there are still some reasonable people over yonder. Now if they’d just stop being afraid to speak up…
If I’m to be a dinosaur I want to be a pteranodon with laser eyes.
Where do I go to have my reconstructive species reassignment surgery? I am pretty sure that Obamacare should pay for it. No one can expect me to stay trapped in the body of a cuddly grandma when I feel in my heart I was meant to soar above the clouds and lay burning waste to random villages.
Not quite the same, but just for you:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/05/04/sharks-with-laser-beams-attached-to-their-heads-dr-evils-dream-comes-true/
Dear Times,
The highest part sticking up on a shark is called a:
“Dorsal Fin”
The head is the pointy part on the front with eyes and teeth.
I think a sequel to a famous work is in order: “Since you are a Dinosaur, My Love”.
Do you think it might get nominated for a Hugo?
Now that you’re a dinosaur my love, I’ll need some money to buy some Depends and size 57 open-toed shoes.
We are dinosaurs.
Hank jr was onto this year ago.
We are not dinosaurs.
We are Devo.
nil carborundum illegitemi
The sad thing is that you’ve been saying variations of this since I’ve been reading your blog, and people still won’t get it.
They get it, they just don’t care. Vox Day is too useful for them as a bludgeon.
Yep. As I have said previously, Vox is their last chance to make SP3 out to be haters. They can’t do it with the SP3 suggested works since there is way too much evidence that it is open minded and based on merit. They can now only lie about SP3 being linked to Vox.
use the Alinsky Playbook
I don’t think there is anything special about the Alinsky Playbook except, perhaps, that it is written down. It is basically instruction on how to be a manipulative asshole, and as such invents nothing new to history, politics, or the human condition.
The part that’s most amusing is that the Alinsky Playbook can basically be summarized as “Step outside of Civilized Rules and rally the mob to the flag of Barbarian!”
…
That’s Vox Day. Fire, meet fire.
And so, you too, are forced to renounce Vox Day. Maybe I’m not the sharpest spoon in the drawer, but your post looks an awful lot like a soviet era denoucing.
You are not, nor have you ever been, a supporter of Vox Day.
I’m not surprised it’s come to this.
It’s foing to get worse, too. I fully expect someone’s house to get burned down before this is over.
please note, previous post is meant to be sympathetic, not accusatory. I’m not a writer, I’m a grease monkey.
My understanding of denouncing would be to trash the person being denounced.
Simply stating that one is not who one is being associated with is not quite URRS-level. I, too, would be sick of being told I’m evil becuase – Vox.
I’m sure Larry can come up with plenty of evil on his own.
Calm the hell down.
I didn’t say anything there that I haven’t said in public before. I just put it all in one place because I was sick of being challenged to defend somebody else’s statements.
Eight at last count entirely separate media outlets publish exactly the same libelous garbage about SP and yet they accuse Larry, and Brad, and Vox of collusion.
Funny thing that.
Projection. They privately collude continuously, and savagely eat their own for failing to conform to their hivemind.
They cannot imagine us not doing the same.
“Also, I think it’s entirely unfair that you will not accept a nomination. If your work is good enough to stand out, it should be recognized.”
I agree with Mark Whipple, who sounds like a fine fellow.
Larry Correia should be up for whatever new award replaces the Hugos if or when the Social Justice Planeteers burn the award rather than let any unpersons win one.
I second the motion!
We can call the new award “The Correia”, or perhaps “The Torgersen”.
in all seriousness, it could just be something like “The World’s Best SF/F”, though TWiBSFuF may not catch on all that well.
Call it “The Heinlein.”
Or…(I don’t hate ‘The Heinlein’) – dig even deeper back, to da Vinci, perhaps.
Really torque them off and call it “The Ringo” or “The Kratman.”
The Julie (Jules Verne)
Sounds better than the, “Gernsback.”
Or for that matter, “Hugo the Rat.”
Which is what Hugo Gernsback was known as by his stable of unpaid writers.
It’s funny to me that the most prestigious writing award in SFF is named for man who was widely detested by so many of his writers.
It should be called “The Wendell”.
The Roberts, for Heinlein and E. Howard.
I like Steve’s suggestion of The Julie.
(Since that’s my name.)
But really … Jules Verne… good choice.
Or go even farther back and call it the Illiad.
Want to second Tiago Becerra Paolini’s suggestion of the “Wendell.” The trophy should be a manatee on a pedestal, while joyous puppies frolic beneath it.
The “What a Rush” award – since that’s what one should be thinking after reading a winner.
No no no no no.
It should be the Big-Eyed Puppy
“By your entitlement combined, I am Captain Hugo!”
You should as well John. Count to a Trillion was amazing.
Awake in the Nightlands was just fantastic. It was the first time in a very long time that something like that has had any effect on me.
Your thanks are the only award I ned, Mr Capdepon. Thank you.
“Awake In The Night Lands” was the first thing I read by Mr. Wright; indeed, it was one of the first books I bought for my Kindle, based solely on Internet buzz.
And yes, it blew me away. High-octane nightmare fuel, written in prose with an antique beauty reminiscent of Lovecraft at his best, but without Lovecraft’s nihilism.
That was the book that made me a fan. I’ve been reading him ever since.
It is time for a new award anyway.
Basset hound holding a kukri in her jaws staring mournfully up at you. The ultimate Sad Puppy.
We’re close to the point where winning a Hugo, unless it’s an ironic thumb in the eye of the SJWs, is a toxic albatross around your neck. I’m more in favor of a Reconquista of the Hugos than the replacement of them, if that’s even possible.
But since the topic is up, I prefer that the new awards that were formerly called the Hugos be named after a true pioneer in the genre, like Jules Verne. Maybe the award can be called the Family Jules.
Close to?
That point was passed years ago.
That’s (one of) the point of all of this.
Eh. Maybe. I’m still hopeful that the Hugos can be rehabilitated.
But if they can’t, I’m not in the least distressed to see them nuked instead.
Why not call the new award…the Vox?
It certainly doesn’t help that Vox keeps using the Sad Puppies hashtag on Twitter. It gives the impression that he’s part of it, when he isn’t. But as Larry said, Vox is not under his control.
Speaking of other uses of “Sad Puppies”, have y’all seen this?
http://blog.sadpuppies.org/
Domain ownership is proxied.
So who is Noah Ward (the author of all the blog entries, and one would assume the owner of the site)?
Say it out loud, slowly.
[Palm to the forehead] Doh!
David Gerrold has used “Noah Ward” as a nym, but it’s not unique to him:
https://www.facebook.com/david.gerrold/posts/10205356798731801
Somebody sucks at satire.
I agree with LC. That sucks. They need advice and meaningful critical critique.
Larry,
They are doing this in order to make you separate from Vox. It is a classic example of divide and conquer. George Martin has already started this with his posts about Vox.
They know this. They don’t care. They are going to keep at you in order to drive a wedge between the united front that is opposing them. Don’t let them get away with it, especially when victory is in your grasp.
I actually do not agree. I think they want to link SP3 to Vox and RP because they think that is enough to destroy SP3. Funny enough, it is not. Vox isn’t going anywhere. Neither is SP. We are really worrying about things that have already been decided. SP3 has done what was intended and they are just unable to accept their defeat. They have done a good job in convincing Brad and Larry that they, the SJWs, are still in this fight. They are not. They lost.
I didn’t write it for them, I wrote it for everybody else. When I’ve got people who I know are on my side saying they don’t like how I’m associated with Vox, then I need to clarify it.
I didn’t say anything there that I haven’t said repeatedly before.
Therein lies the problem. They’ve got you repeatedly repeating yourself wasting time and effort.
This entire post and comments is a big SJW win. Recognizing the problem, defining it, then dragging it into the sunlight is the first step in solving it.
They aren’t a united front. They haven’t ever been. That is the point of Larry’s post.
If they think *isolating* Vox is going to make him any less obnoxious, they have clearly not been paying attention.
They don’t get it. The SP crew are merely their opponents. Vox is gleefully piloting his kamikaze into the SF establishment. And the CHORFs are not only proving LarryC and BradT right, they’re also dancing to Vox’s tunes.
Thanks for that…now I’ve got soda all over my screen…damn it… I can’t stop giggling every time I reread your comment and picture VD in a little Yokosuka D4Y Suisei (“Judy”) dive bomber (thanks Wikipedia) hurtling towards the convention center, cackling gleefully. Oh man…
Yes, our side is not a monolithic bloc.
Even if there hadn’t been an SP3, I suspect there would have been a Rabid Puppies. And it probably would have been even more successful.
I don’t know about you, but I actually AM Vox Day.
I am also Napoleon, Batman, Sam (I Am), Charlie, The Walrus, and Spartacus.
Especially Spartacus.
I am Spartacus.
And Larry Correia
And Brad TOrgerson
And Sarah Hoyt
And yes, even Vox. Day
I may or may not agree with them, but I will not denounce them. You will not pin their perceived sins on me, but I will provide them covering fire when requested.
Torgersen – think that was me and not the autocorrect –
While I personally may not care for someone’s opinions, I am rabidly opposed to slander and censorship, and to be honest, the frustrated tears of bullies add great flavour to coffee. Lock Shields.
Wear a Go Pro.
Record Everything.
Put it on the web afterwards.
Get popcorn, enjoy fireworks.
1. Your money, your call.
2. Being polite, dignified, and professional is never wrong.
3. Who could possibly hate Wendell?
First off Worldcon is big enough that you’ll probably won’t run into any of the SWF’s unless you look for them on the schedule. Although if you go to the business meeting you will see them. Also quite a few of them will be in their safe room. Another wonderful SJW term. Go to the Baen party and the Baen Traveling Roadshow for fun.
You left off the Barfly Suite.
Maybe we should refer to the “Safe Room” as the “Quarantine Zone” …
“Victim Assembly Area”
#2…Please remember to be condescending to them. They really hate that. And when they complain that you’re being condescending, explain to them that condescension means affability to your inferiors and temporary disregard for differences of position or rank, and that it’s the only way we can have conversations with them.
Excellent! I’m really good at condescension!
If you go on a cruise to/along Alaska…. you will be surrounded by SJW’s. Wealthy ones who can afford such cruises, basking in their gloriously hypocritic magnificence, and whimpering about the glaciers, polar bears and fish.
Think about it.
Wear a sad puppies shirt. If any SJWs come up to berate just say “I find your words and behavior threatening, please leave me alone.” If they continue, “You are in violation of Sasquan’s anti-harrasment policy, please leave me alone”
If they fail to leave after your first indication the encounter is unwanted, report them to Con Security.
It’d work best if you had a compatriot to record their activities. Getting the worst of the SJWs kicked out of the con for violating their own requested policies would be wonderful black knighting.
Wear a sad puppies shirt to ALASKA!
To Jon – LIKE ! 🙂
They’ve got a nice gondola over the falls too. There’s not likely to be much water at that time of year, especially given the dearth of winter precip, but the rock are still pretty.
And there’s a massive carousel in the park! And ducks to feed!
Can’t forget the garbage-eating goat.
(I went to college in Spokane and didn’t have a car. However, the campus was right next to the Centennial Trail, about a mile from Riverfront Park, so any time this broke, carless college student was bored, I went to the waterfalls.)
Well, at least until they throw you out for making them “feel unsafe”, as happened here. Fortunately, in this country we have several laws and Amendments to the Constitution to allow us to each sue the Worldcon, it’s ConCom, the WSFS, etc. both personally and corporately until they either go bankrupt or decide this game isn’t worth the candle. Teach them what public accommodation and equal access really mean.
I won’t be there, but I’m in favor of visual identifiers as a general rule.
Wendell ought to be “in group” enough not to scare the natives.
I am waiting to see how this all goes down, because Kansas City next year is quite driveable… But if it just turns into a complete wreck I won’t bother.
You’ll hear more whale music at WorldCon.
You don’t need a publishers opinion to tell you your writing is good, just your fans.
Self publish, keep more money, kick the middlemen out, and be happy. Its easier to do that today than it was five years ago, and there’s a ton of resources out there that are willing and able to help you.
Everyone wants to belong. When your day job doesn’t align with what you really want, the idea of belonging jabs you hard in a little corner of your mind.
‘Belonging’ is now making my stomach turn.
But thank you for the support. It is more appreciated than I have words to describe.
Should be Groucho Marx vibe…sigh…
“I can pretty much say I will, at this point, never be able to publish professionally.”
Pardon me for being blunt, but humbug. If I can be published, you can be.
These people about whom we complain are on their way out. The reason why there is so much screaming and drama on the Internet is because this is their last cry of panic before the waters of oblivion close over their heads.
You are absolutely right. We’re witnessing the old order’s death throes. Like a dying kaiju, its final spasms can be frightening; even destructive.
But if we only endure, SFF will return to the hands of its rightful sovereigns–the readers and the authors.
Taysha said:
Don’t be too sure of that. There are a lot of “small” sf/f presses being set up recently. And while I am not an author, and thus have no personal knowledge, some of them seem to be quite successful.
The one thing I am sure of is this: if you don’t play, you won’t win.
Many of the small presses are simply there to rob authors of money and copyrights.
Nowadays, the big publishers don’t do much of anything for anyone who isn’t a star. They generally don’t take anyone who isn’t self-publishing and marketing anyway, so why bother with either.
If you’re good, and you really, really want to get published, Baen and Castalia are around for the non-PC. Amazon is available for the self-promoters.
No need to sign your life away to big evil, in other words.
I’m just finishing The Golden Transcendence, unbelievable I’d never heard of Wright before Sad Puppies.
Now all we need is for Glenn Reynolds to start his own slate: #blendedpuppies!
I denounce all denunciations, including this one.
His Orphans of Chaos trilogy was my first. I was out at a week long training class and saw a Borders when I went out for dinner. Picked up the first book before heading back to the hotel. Went back and picked up the next two the following evening.
To quote Erik Avari as the Grand Inquisitor of the Great Underground Empire: “‘Shun magic, and shun the appearance of magic. Shun everything, and then shun shunning.” 😀
Retro Rocket, your info is a little behind the times. You’re thinking of Marion Zimmer Bradley’s pedophile husband, Walter Breen, and his doings.
Last calendar year, Moira Greyland (the daughter) revealed that Bradley had also physically and sexually abused her personally, as well as her brothers.
But yeah, back to your point… as newsmakers, yes, Hitler and Stalin were certainly influential on events in those years, and that is all Time is supposed to be talking about. But did Arafat actually make peace? No, it was another truce and regroup period.
Slight correction:
Marion Zimmer Bradley *WAS* a child molester. Samuel Delaney still only sympathized with them as far as we know, though.
Part of the problem is that everyone has a breaking point. When we are thinking rationally, we can admit the logic that if you don’t protect ideas you hate, you can’t get your ideas protected from others who hate your ideas . . . but most people have at least one idea they hate SO much, or think is SO intrinsically dangerous, that reaction trumps logic and they just want that idea exterminated.
The single greatest danger of Alinsky -style progressivism is that it validates this reaction as licit and acceptable.
I remember seeing a TV movie about Skokie Illinois. Nazi’s wanted to march and have a political rally in a town where 1 in 6 Jewish residents was a Holocaust survivor.
I remember another movie. The Nazis had their rally and the Bluesmobile forced them to jump off the bridge into the pond.
I’ll admit, I liked that movie better.
“Illinois Nazis. I hate Illinois Nazis.”
Though I have to give the Blues Brothers credit for being just about the only movie that did the neo-Nazi villain right.
SP is doing the same thing. I found it amusing that O’Neil at Black Gate finally realized he may have been played, punked and pranked. That guy openly supports the most rancid politically correct feminist bullshit and happily deletes any push back in the comments.
Besides, even if you did, you’d just take his place, and they’d start pushing Brad to distance himself from the horrible unperson Correia. And if he was that stupid, next year they’d be telling Kate to distance herself from him.
The tactic has actually worked very well for them in the past, but most people have learned if you feed your allies to the alligator, you might be eaten last but you’ll still be eaten. Better to team up and kill the damn thing.
I think it’s slightly disingenuous to say he wasn’t involved – in the lead up to it he was clearly involved in the planning
HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Where did you get this impression? What evidence is there of this?
Answers: You don’t, Vox’s public statements of support, and none.
comment for comments.
reply for replies.
[…] Correia pretty much nailed it with his comments. I can only broaden mine to include “we” because nobody who is on the […]
For all the disagreements I have with him, Vox certainly makes all the right enemies, and he does it with style.
I think the SJWs do more to get me back to his blog than anything he writes there would.
He really does have an uncanny knack for pissing people off.
I am honestly surprised how far off base this initiative has gotten. Suddenly it’s all about Left vs. Right. Let me tell you something: that is a battle you will never win. No one has a fundamental right to have the Hugos or Nebulas reflect their politics. When it comes to something like that, you are occupying no moral high ground whatsoever.
#DitchYourRacists
I don’t think she’d do it, but I’d love to see some of the emails Bellett received after being nominated.
I really liked her story, and think she had a better than good chance of winning. It my number one, unless I read something else that I like better.
Larry, last night I suggested that since your opponents are succeeding in making this about Vox, you leave the Hugos to him and start your own award. I have reconsidered. They’d just find someone else impure and use that person to devalue the Larry award. So if you didn’t already ignore my suggestion, ignore my suggestion. And good luck!
Larry, you’re the best and most eloquent debaters I’ve seen, but please tell me you didn’t just break Godwin’s Law.
didn’t just break Godwin’s law
I had to read that part of LC’s post twice before I got it. I’m not sure one could claim a violation (*) without accepting LC’s premise, in which case his point is made.
(*) Dude. It’s a law of proportionality. It’s broken when a thread goes on for days and *doesn’t* reference Nazis. I dunno why we keep calling it “breaking” the law instead of “fulfilling” it. Esp SFF fans.
Anyway, I suspect Godwin’s law needs a revision, post-Downfall.
Invoking the-mustache-which-must-not-be-named seems required now – it’s not really a good fight until someone’s done a parody.
No. It is an apt comparison, Churchill and FDR weren’t best buds with Stalin, but they were the allies. Now, if I’d gone on to say that Teresa Nielsen Himmler of the SMOFfen SS was angry with us, that would have been Godwinning the thread.
Churchill may not have been, but FDR seemed awfully chummy with “Uncle Joe.” And it sure didn’t seem to bother him (or Truman) when Soviet spies were identified in his organization. Heck, they got promoted to even higher positions with even more authority.
You may not want to read Churchill’s history of WWII, with his first hand account of a jolly evening at a dacha with Stalin and Beria.
The really scary thing was that Churchill saw no problem with Stalin’s wonderful plan to plant the same kind of wheat in every climatic area of the entire USSR.
Churchill… was pretty socialist on some matters.
Oh, I’m not surprised. Churchill has attune great pithy quips, but I’m not a part if the cult of Churchill. Actually, I just honestly don’t know as much about him.
Churchill was also very much not a farmer. He was a fascinating and multitalented man, but he had a weakness for snake oil.
“Teresa Nielsen Himmler of the SMOFfen SS”
I’m SO stealing that, Larry. *evil grin*
I thought it was funny when somebody invoked Godwin, on a post I wrote going through the Nazi party platform and political actions to demonstrate that they were actually socialists. Well… Yeah…
Man, how dare you compare the National Socialist German Workers Party to the Nazis, of all people!?! Don’t you know they killed millions of people?!? Have a sense of proportion, here! You should only break out the Nazi comparisons when you’re talking about someone truly terrible, like Vox Day or George W. Bush, not when you’re simply talking about National Socialists.
Heh – and the neutrals asserting that the German National Socialist Workers Party was not socialist…
Sorry – nutballs – autocorrect got me
Godwin’s Law ignores the fact people are trying to draw parallels to an intellectual and philosophical space which creates hatred by mainstreaming hate speech.
Instead they go straight to genocide and give over with the LOLs. There’s a shitload of harm that falls short of mass murder. It is not an either or proposition.
Shorter Lotharloo…
“The fear isn’t real! The fear isn’t real!”
And that after having come here to demand that people disavow Vox, or else be branded by association.
Because guilt by association is so civilized.
But… “The fear isn’t real!”
Gotcha, bucko.
@Syvona:
I can understand why people here get so defensive whenever VD is brought up, however, I did never demand that people here should disown VD. I posted his silly and offensive statements to show that how natural is it for someone like Marko to not want to have anything to do with him and I also applauded him on that decision.
That was it. But somehow mentioning even the name of VD brings back memories of trauma and feelings being accused of guilt by association.
I doubt either would have dropped out if the whole of fandom had been decent to them. If there hadn’t been numerous articles bashing the entire thing. Linking to lists with their names on them. Of they hadn’t had people sending private emails and making public comments.
“Beer is the mind-killer” – Beer Gessirit aphorism
An apt summation. Contacting you could’ve saved Entertainment Weekly a world of hurt!
What a waste of time. It’s too bad you need to spend any portion of your life stating the obvious in terms that a group of 4 year old children could understand. Smdh…
Consider: these are people whose first instinct is that everything must be centrally organized. The idea that people might go off and do their own thing doesn’t even occur to them.
It does occur to them.
Organizations they do not control are the enemy, and must be eradicated.
Link:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/04/allan-davis/leftists-attack-libertarian-sci-fi/
And that grey colorless world is why utopians are the most frightening people on the planet.
Thanks, should’ve posted link myself.
I know have that scene from ‘Spartacus’ replaying through my mind . . .
” . . . not to replace one biased clique with a new biased clique . . .rather to get an award . . . to represent more of fandom . . . ”
A noble goal.
The only thing SP could do about that was expose the bullies. In that sense, it has accomplished a lot, because a lot more regular people got to see them in action.
But no, the campaign wasn’t perfect, and we made a lot of mistakes. As I said in my letter to the SMOFs there isn’t exactly an owner’s manual for this stuff.
Yes there is :-). Shoulda borrowed it from Toni.
Problem is, the stuff in the manual is outdated.
Yes, there is – Saul Alinsky wrote it, and it would be oh so very appropriate to apply his tactics against people who follow him.
In my experience, left-wing people don’t get a pass unless they’re non-white women.
There are probably more examples of white male leftists getting a pass than you’d think, you obviously just don’t hear about them because the SJWs choose not to amplify it the way they would a rightist’s remarks. However, the double-standard is appalling enough even IF it were only applied to non-whites.
SJWs often *praise* straight white males who actively disparage LGBT/PoC/females for being LGBT/PoC/female who disagree with the SJWs.
Ahem. Bill Clinton.
Joe Biden…….
And I thank you for that. It’s the unchecked bullshit that most needs an opposing voice.
You need to get over to Jemisin’s site right now and read her Hugo post. It is disturbing, as is all of Jemisin’s writing.
In the midst of all this stuff about Day, it is begging to be fisked, especially since Kowal is in the comments with a high-five and Jemisin states “racism is our status quo.” In other words white Americans are racists.
Next, read her Wiscon Guest of Honor speech. That is remarkable to say the least, and completely distorts the facts of her career and that of Samuel Delany.
Again, I don’t see how it could possibly be racist to say that there is a lot of racism. She might be wrong about how much racism there is, but how could that mean she’s racist?
I’ve read the Wiscon speech, and again, I don’t agree with it but I don’t see any evidence of prejudice. She’s just a radical leftist, that doesn’t maker her racist.
Her argument is that acknowledging that some people care more about a writer’s race, gender, or sexuality than the merit of their work means you think “underrepresented writers couldn’t possibly just be good enough to have earned awards on the merits of their writing, so the only reason they’ve gotten nominated is because they’re [check a box].”
(It’s also worth noting that the “quoted” text she said this in response to was never said by Torgersen at all. She even admits to never having actually read what he said.)
That’s not a rational argument (Jemisin’s), it’s just her trying to set up another strawman.
White people will murder you without provocation? That sounds reasonable.
She didn’t say white people WILL murder you without provocation, she said the law allows white people to do so. That is an unhelpful exaggeration of what’s wrong with stand your ground laws, but it doesn’t involve any prejudice against white people.
I apologize in advance Zoldberg, but anyone who can read that delusional bit of white hatred and not see any evidence of prejudice isn’t even worth talking to.
Zoldberg, there is so much bullshit in that speech I can’t list it all. But I will say both her and Delany were showered with awards from the very onset of their careers. So no “careers have been strangled at birth.”
You don’t see how it benefits a racial bigot to exaggerate how immoral their opponents are?
Literally all I’m saying is that the speech isn’t racist. I’m not saying it’s a good speech, I’m saying it’s not racist.
I didn’t say there wasn’t any bullshit in the speech. I said it wasn’t racist. Is it racist to be wrong about whether people’s careers have been strangled by racism?
Is it racist to exaggerate how immoral your political opponents are?
It is racist to argue against honoring or reading white authors specifically because they are white.
Zoidberg, if you can’t see the blatant racism in her speech there is no hope for you understanding English at all.
There’s not even such a thing as white people. It’s just SJWs throwing American Jim Crow over the entire world and its history. It ignores a multiplicity of language and culture from Moscow to Lisbon and people living all over the world in every country.
There is a difference between “too sensitive” and “false accusations and blatant calumny about innocent strangers minding their own business.”
Fluttershy the pony is too sensitive.
N.K. Jemisin doesn’t remind anyone of Fluttershy.
Yeah, I don’t think that anyone is going to be making N. K. Jemisin plushies any time soon. And I think that if Discord was ever forced to hang out with her, he’d conclude rather rapidly that evil was more fun than good.
Nothing. Go back to sleep.
Ah, one of the lighter moments in the debate. I do like GamerGators better than GamerGaters. Someone should make a Sad Puppies-like logo of GamerGators.
I am not Rand Paul.
Speaking of Stalin, perhaps the SPs and SJWs can come together and put Harry Turtledove’s Joe Steele on a unity ticket next year. Both sides have someone in-universe to root for.
“I’m not going to burn anyone in effigy. Stop asking.”
(Looking over at the effigy of myself on the workbench…): “Awww, son of a…”
well I’m afraid that if you really want to use this analogy ..
“Look at it like this. I’m Churchill. Brad is FDR. We wound up on the same side as Stalin.”
you’ll have to become Mussolini to VD’s Hitler … I mean come on both Churchill and FDR were liberals! If you want real right-wing conservatism, you can’t beat Hitler.
Brad is probably mad I claimed Churchill. There’s no way I’m taking FDR. But you get the point.
I’m not actually sure who should be more insulted: Brad or Vox.
I’m gonna guess you’ve never actually read Hitler’s campaign platform. Leaving out the rhineland bit, most of it looks like it could have been lifted straight from Canada’s NDP or the US’s Democrats.
Hell, Hitler and Mussolini were big FDR fans and FDR very much liked Mussolini…the New Deal was very similar Mussolini’s economic fascism. A lot of the New Deal propaganda artwork is creepily similar to what you’d’ve found in nazi Germany and fascist Italy.
Besides Lincoln (whom Hitler also admired), FDR was probably about as close to a dictator as America has ever had…he was very much America’s authoritarian/Progressive version of a Hitler/Mussolini.
Well, Wilson would give him a run for the money. Read about the American Protective League, kind of Wilson’s SA during WWI. Mussolini based some of his principles on Wilson’s actions as I recall. And Harding’s campaign slogan, “A Return to Normalcy,” was understood to mean a rolling back of Wilson’s unconstitutional actions. Wilson publicly distained the Constitution.
I probably don’t know as much history as you, but enough to know that the Progressive Wilson was about as bad as they come.
Harding was probably the best (from a liberty perspective) President of the last 100 years. He reacted to the massive economic crash of 1920-21 by doing…nothing (except cutting federal spending). What an uncaring SOB! Oddly enough I don’t remember learning about the Great Depression of the 1920’s…
Whereas the ‘caring’ FDR (and Hoover before him) actively fought the 1929 crash and we got a Great Depression which didn’t really end until after WWII.
I just read this — It’s horrifying. All the more so, since the book I read about Wilson APPROVED of him.
I usually call him President for life Roosevelt, as for the stock market crashes… anyone here remember the crash of 1987.
Don’t forget Wilson. It’s a toss-up if Wilson or FDR is truly the American Fascist dictator. I guess you have to give the edge to FDR because he was just charismatic enough to make the people want it.
The Right Strong Man for the Right Crisis, lol…him (for the good of the nation of course!) seeking re-election 3 times helps his case as 2nd worst American Fascist Dictator (Lincoln, whose monument in DC is actually adorned with fasces will always be #1 in my book).
For the love of God, why oh why can’t Canadians spell center correctly? (Or admit that the Canadian NHL teams aren’t that great?)
The same reason Americans can’t seem to spell centre, colour, armour, or neighbour correctly…
(now looking through this post for the inevitable typo)
Stop gratuitously adding U between O and R you crazy word terrorists! (let’s not even get started about “tyre”.)
You’ve never heard of “The Colour Out of Space”?
You don’t appear to know anything about conservative political philosophy, or Hitler…
To be fair, European left/right doesn’t map very well to North American left/right. They’re more on the nationalism axis, while we’re more on the statism/individualism axis.
I’ve said that for years; the axes are different, even though the terms used to describe the ends are the same.
I wonder if Sarah Hoyt would be game for doing a blog on the topic once the Hugos are over – she’s very familiar with both and could probably elaborate the differences quite well.
Answering Matthew here. It’s not the Hugos. It’s post-op recovery and fixing a house up for sale. Ping me on this around July. I totally can.
I shall do so, most Beautiful Yet Evil Space Princess.
Best wishes for a fast recovery and sale, eh?
You mean the Hitler who was head of the National SOCIALIST German WORKERS’ Party?
Not a very right-wing sounding name to me…
But Shane, you actually have to LEARN something about the subject to understand that! That would defeat clif’s purpose entirely!
The SJWs learned all the history they needed to know in 5th grade…and in Womyn’s Studies.
Common tactic used by the left to align Hitler falsely to right-wing politics.
Stuff like what’s been going on though strips away that lie.
Unfortunately, that disconnect ISN’T incredible, but is entirely credible.
Hoover was a Keynesian, and attempted to fix the Depression with Keynesian principles. Coolidge ignored his advice for a reason.
FDR doubled down on his stupid.
Hoover publicly recanted Keynesianism when he looked at European countries in 1936 with a engineer’s eyes. He noticed that countries that had instituted austerity programs instead of “stimulus” had recovered from the depression, but countries run by Keynesians were still reeling.
( Check out Hoover’s book, Freedom Betrayed, for more info. Be aware that the first ten percent of the book is a lengthy post-death pre-buttal by some idiot dem-cong publisher ).
I guess that makes North Korea (the DPRK) a democratic country too eh?
Hitler and Mussolini were NEVER, by their own words, anything OTHER than Socialist.
Which part of “National Socialist” brings this right-wing attribute to Hitler? lol Once you have drunk the SJW cool-aid, historical perspective is no longer applicable.
Direct quote:
“I’m … Vox Day” – Larry Correia
??? From where?
Ellipses are everything…
From the title of this blog post.
The title of this very blog post, of course. Ellipsis (…) can be used (among other things) to indicate one or more words in the original text being quoted were omitted, as being unnecessary to convey the point.
You’ve been taking lessons from Dingy Harry Reid, haven’t you?
You have to remember–you’re not trying to convince the brainwashed leftist you’re talking to, but to show any rational third parties following the discussion the fundamental falsity of his arguments. That’s why it’s important to refute this silliness rather than to let it fester unchallenged.
This is true. That’s why at that point I start referring to them as Son, or Child, or some other diminuitive. When they complain, tell them that if they want to be treated like adults they need to act like adults, and not like kindergartners.
Heh. So obviously the correct response is to have Larry, Brad, and Vox get to the back of the bus, where their kind belongs. Can’t have Those People getting “uppitty,” now can we?
For a group of people ostensibly opposed to bigotry, the SJWs sure sound like pretty much every bigot ever.
If you wat to see real bigotry, watch an SJW confront a Black republican.
Any online mention of Charles Krauthammer or Justice Clarence Thomas invariably results in an epithet lobbed by a leftist explicitly targeted at their respective disability or race. For all their big talk, no one is so white, male, and straight that they won’t be welcomed by SJWs if they perform the appropriate absolutions and no one is so diverse they can’t be excommunicated for wrongthink. Which suggests the SJWs don’t care about diversity in the slightest.
Encountered that on an Enlightened Forum… I’ve forgotten what point I was making, but I quoted Booker T Washington and brought up Dr. Walter Williams (whom I greatly admire) … and the SJW response was, I quote, “They don’t count, because they’re house n****rs.”
Ah, more Hugo-Truthers.
First got to know of you some years back through George Hill, when you were still a firearms dealer. It’s been interesting to keep up with you, although somewhat limited.
You do such a great job of expressing your thoughts, I’m envious. Keep it up. The politics in everything is mind blowing. Having a rational mind like yours is refreshing. Thanks for all you do.
Don’t quote Jemisin, because Glyer says “these comments cross the line into abuse.”
I agree. Quoting Jemisin is abusive, but not for the reason Glyer thinks.
Ask him if it’s OK to paraphrase her then, or to just put words in her mouth as she does to those she rages against.
Maybe I should put up Jemisin quotes, change “white” to “black” and attribute them to an anonymous white male SFF writer.
Or change “white” to “jew”, and then tell her you found this in something Hitler wrote.
This is the exact type of double standard that created SP. So just keep making up rules only one side has to obey, because we’ll just sit back and say “Yes, master.”
James: I knew if I checked I would find you had reproduced the comment here. Larry has seen fit to accomodate your stable of hobby horses. Be happy with each other.
As for me, I don’t consider your agenda to belittle NK Jemisin quotes to belong in to discussion about SP/RP happening on my blog. She’s not on either list. Did not promulgate either list. Which are both things you CAN say about VD. Who also regularly engages with commenters on F770 and has had no difficulty holding his own.
So you have only approved thoughts that can be expressed, eh? Anything not on the list gets mercilessly deleted. Gotcha.
And here I thought I was the only one who had noticed that current progressive rhetoric bears a rather uncanny resemblance to that of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei in the 1930s … only the target has changed.
All you have to do is mentally substitute “jew” for “straight white male” and it becomes obvious – and more than a little scary.
@James May; do you mind if I link to your archive of quotes? I’d like to make a blog post that is a small smattering of http://menkampf.com/ like observations. Maybe I’ll call it #HugoKampf or something.
For what it’s worth, my blog has very few readers.
@ Mike Glyer: James May is predictable (and in need of other hobbies) but I think in this he is correct – either everyone’s character and/or actions may be discussed in the comments, or no-one’s can be. (For instance, you have not forbidden comments about Connie Willis.) NKJ has chosen to engage in the wider debate as well.
That being said, sir, your blog, your rules.
Hey, Keranih, fuck you.
Oh, sweetie, you’re kind to offer. But no, I meant other hobbies.
i’m guessing fucking you would be work.
You two grow up & play nice, please.
And guess is what you’ll have to keep on doing.
(Alas, my amusement level with this conversation is negligible. Feel free to carry on by yourself, do.)
Geez James… the slightest hint of criticism of your life’s work while saying she agrees with you and you get abusive?
Touchy much?
You *can*, you know, do something worthwhile and valuable without becoming so myopic and invested that you 1) become a jerk face, and 2) fly into a rage if someone points that out.
Would you like an insulting assessment of your motivations and how you spend your time or would you prefer I MYOB? I’m sure each of you has your own backyards. Go stare at them.
Hey, wait… maybe I’m late to the party, but is James May the same person as Fail Burton? Or are there two of them with the same collection of racist SJW quotes?
Yeah, our side has its crazies. For what it’s worth I find the policy to be sensible.
I have no agenda such as you describe, Mr. Glyer. Provide evidence to back that accusation up or apologize. The word “seems” will not suffice. Prove it. There is no such agenda on my part.
Brilliant.
I don’t normally comment, but I had to put one on this.
This situation is so biased-ly reported around the internet, it honestly makes anyone reporting on it suspect of regurgitating the typical nonsensical group-think.
These people clearly don’t have to very far to climb up batshit-crazy mountain and reach the group-think Kool-Aid chalice.
Honestly, I don’t believe anyone who reports Larry is responsible for Vox Day or any of his actions has read past any of Larry’s blog-post headlines.
/sigh
Yes, but Larry, if you would just make clear that you don’t like Vox Day, that he is the embodiment of Satan in flesh and promise never to do anything that anyone else might possible consider as being in line with him even a little bit, really, they will leave you alone.
OK, maybe not.
David
I don’t like Vox either, but I will defend his right to post Hugo nomination suggestions.
Larry, if you are not careful, you will end up fighting this battle on the ground chosen by the SJWs, which will be to their advantage. I’m pretty sure you know that, but a reminder never hurts…
Right. Vox Day is not Stalin. Its nuts that you are saying that. Stalin murdered millions and millions of people. Vox Day is a colorful guy who speaks his mind rather a lot.
Gah…. I really want a preview and/or edit option…
My point is that the conversation on both Brad and Larry’s blogs has revolved around Vox for a couple of days. Vox is a distraction from the main goal. Such distractions happen with regularity when arguing with the left, usually starting with a “what about so and so”, and if you fall into the trap of responding, you will end up defending yourself against the implied association. That battle is unwinnable, and a distraction from the main goal.
Actually to them Vox is worse than Stalin because Uncle Joe spouted equality, statism and was basically on their side.
You know what I like about you, Larry? Besides the good books, of course. It’s the fact that even though we are complete opposites when it comes to politics and religion, you don’t let your politics and religion make you a dick. Too often, people who are both religious and conservative are complete assholes against anybody who isn’t them. Anti-gay, anti-women, anti-everything. Thank you for being one of the good guys.
So you’re trying to tar all of us with the same brush, eh? But I’m sure you’d complain about unfairness if we did the same thing to you, wouldn’t you?
I said too often, not always. I didn’t even say a majority of the time. I was thinking more along the lines of people like Orson Scott Card, but thanks for putting words into my mouth!
Turnabout is fair play, son.
Orson Scott Card is “Anti-gay, anti-women, anti-everything”? That sounds a bit extravagant 😉
Thanking someone for not letting their beliefs make them a dick and then…
Self-awareness, I never knew you.
I ate a cat yesterday.
I hope it was a fluffy kitten. Those are the tastiest!
I would, but I’m allergic.
Best thing about cats?
Four drumsticks.
You do realize that coming in and saying that “Hey, everyone on your side and most likely people you like are assholes, but you’re not so good job” is NOT a compliment?
Thought maybe I should point that out.
throw, not through
That’s damned intolerant of you, Brian. Just what we’ve come to expect of the “tolerant” left, of course, but damned intolerant nonetheless.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Actually, it means EXACTLY what I think it means. It’s you lot that are trying to redefine it (as you constantly try to do with so many perfectly understood terms, so that you can pretend the good ones apply to you when they manifestly don’t).
You lot? That sounds pretty intolerant to me. Pot. Kettle. You know the rest. I also seem to recall something about glass houses and throwing stones.
“You lot” sounds intolerant? You stand convicted of not knowing the meaning of the term by your own post.
tol·er·ant
(tŏl′ər-ənt)
adj.
1. Inclined to tolerate the beliefs or behavior of others; forbearing: a tolerant attitude.
in·tol·er·ant
(ĭn-tŏl′ər-ənt)
adj.
Not tolerant, especially:
a. Unwilling to tolerate differences in opinions, practices, or beliefs, especially religious beliefs.
“Intolerant” as properly defined here describes what you’re doing quite exactly. As for not understanding the meaning of these words, you keep proving it over and over with your posts.
What you’re not getting, Brian, is that people have the right to be bigoted, against “you lot,” “my lot” or any group against whom they wish to be bigoted. That is “freedom of thought” and “freedom of speech.”
What they don’t have the right to do is commit acts of force or fraud against anyone, save in self-defense or the direct defense of others against the use of unprovoked force or fraud.
… and suddenly I’m the target of a lynch mob.
Hyperbole, much? Nobody here has made a single threat against your life or even health. Nor, as far as I can tell, does anyone wish to do so.
hmmm…yes, perhaps not the best metaphor. The whole mob with torches and pitchforks feel is definitely here, though.
I am not impressed with your tolerance, nor your knowledge of RFRA laws.
Because why, exactly? Did I say somewhere that religious people should lose rights? Or that they should be rounded up and shot or sterilized? Or maybe that they shouldn’t be allowed to shop at certain businesses because their views differ from mine? No, I’ve said that they shouldn’t be allowed to discriminate. By the way, those are all things that have been said by religious people about lgbt people. Maybe you should look in a mirror if you think that wanting equality is showing intolerance.
“Did I say somewhere that religious people should lose rights?”
Yes. Look up “Freedom of Association”, and also “Freedom of Religion”.
Got news for you. I’m not them. Get over it. Because if you want to play guilt-by-association, I will.
The usual dishonesty. If you have any evidence of physical harm (spit on, beaten, murdered), you should be down swearing out a warrant instead of here. Disagreeing with you or anyone is neither a crime nor evidence of bigotry no matter how many times you assert it. And denying the First Amendment right of freedom of association isn’t your call.
Forcing someone to participate in a ceremony they believe is inimical to their religion is the act of a tyrant (because, let’s face it, that’s what’s happening here).
As you said, your rights end where your neighbor’s begin–a notion, by the way, that is simplistic to begin with.
60guilders, nobody is trying to force religious institutions to perform marriages. The entire argument is that they shouldn’t be able to force people to not be married. Marriage far predates Christianity. Further, it is a government contract with certain monetary incentives. if it were strictly religious? A lot more people couldn’t get married. Pagans, atheists, etc. Current laws are based on religious interpretations of marriage being between one man and one woman. There is no other reason for it, and frankly, in this country religion isn’t supposed to influence law.
To be fair, if he were “murdered,” I don’t think he’d be posting here or swearing out any complaints — unless our communications technology has made considerable advances since the last time I checked. 😀
Lol, well, there’s always Edison’s spirit phone, Jordan. :-p
From Weird Al Yankovic’s ‘/Mr. Polpeil’
o/o “A brand new service / that lets you talk to the dead.”
😀
Sorry, I mean Yankovic’s “Midnight Star” (it won’t let me post the link for some reason), which is on the same album. And on YouTube. It’s pretty funny, it’s about supermarket tabloids.
Synova, the man and a woman to make a child argument is utter nonsense. First, if that were the only reason for marriage, infertile couples and senior couples couldn’t get married. Neither could anybody who had undergone a hysterectomy, or undergone the little snip snip. Furthermore, there are plenty of options to have children even for same sex couples. Artificial insemination, surrogate mothers, adoption, etc.
Sorry, mac, but forcing someone to cater your wedding is forcing them to participate in the ceremony.
And the belief that religion isn’t supposed to influence law…excuse me while I go and laugh vigorously.
Of course religion influences law! How could it not, given that it offers a moral lens through which to view the world? A moral lens that people will use when they decide who to vote for, and what laws they will pass, and the like.
“Would you want to be thrown out of your home because you own legally obtained guns? ”
I’d like to see it tried. The resultant massacre of Leftists would solve an infinite number of problems.
In the USA currently, as a general rule married couples will pay more taxes than they would if they were single (unless 1 of them is un- or under-employed).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_penalty
Right. I was recently involved in a discussion of certain educational opportunities being denied because of federal child labor laws.
Labor laws prevent consenting adults from making agreements they find advantageous with one another.
If it were a matter of principles, one would advocates to be just as heated over minimum wage as over SSM. Frankly, that is what you see if you look at the relative few for which it is principle.
Once you have conceded that government may intervene in one type of contract, you have conceded their regulation of another.
Brian, you’ve just demonstrated a truly profound ignorance of economics. To bring up only the most obvious consequence of a raise in the minimum wage, the people who get screwed over the most by such a raise are the workers who are just worth the previous minimum wage to an employer (they get fired and find it hard to find new jobs); and the poorest consumers (because prices of low-end goods then rise). Raising wages across the board merely results in inflation, which ultimately helps only debtors (and only current debtors, as future loans become harder to get).
Bigotry wrapped in the guise of anti-bigotry is still bigotry.
And, frankly, religious freedom is a great deal more fundamental than your “right” to not have your feelings hurt by someone else’s beliefs.
See the reply above
And bigotry in the guise of anti-bigotry is *still* bigotry.
You *do* realize that’s not concentrated primarily amongst “religious and conservative” people, right?
That too often, people who are both anti-religious and progressive are complete assholes to anybody who isn’t them. People like the SJW myrmidons who successfully bullied two deserving authors into giving up their nominations.
I would say in the current environment you are microscopically inspecting the speck in the Sad Puppies eyes and are oblivious to the plank in your own.
Just a thought, and I’ll try and remember to mention it elsewhere, but maybe SP4 should have a slate of 8-10 nominees in each category. And on each posting of the slate, the order should be mixed up. It might dominate, yes, but the vote counts might be interesting for Larry to analyze, to see how lockstep we really are–or are not, as most of us here would claim.
How about nominating the diversity hire stories which have the biggest buzz? They always have that cute darling AA story they’re pushing.
Mass nominating Veronica Schanoes would blind side them.
Or we could gang up on getting Scalzi and Requires Hate nominations.
I actually agree with this, but I guess there will be time to talk about this. There’s a lot of time to SP4, and a lot can happen in the meantime.
I mean that I agree with Gnardo Polo. What James May says is funny, but I don’t think it would be a good idea.
I like Brad Torgerson. Why do you have to insult him by comparing him to FDR?
So Vox could not have impacted the Hugo noms via RP, which would make it….
Holy crap, that’s possibly the most epic troll of all time!
Yea, but his slate MAY have influenced current supporting members.
It’s all about Nazi mind control machines operating from flying saucers based in the giant hollow earth hole at the north pole.
So this means Marko gave up his Hugo nomination for nothing?
Yea, Marko just wanted to distance himself from that crowd, and wasn’t interested in a Hugo that might have an asterisk after it.
I’m kind of curious about how Vox will weaponize his slate next year, now that being on it has become a contagious thoughtcrime.
I’m rather curious how Marko imagines the Puppies will be kept out of future Hugos, and if the Hugos become openly restrictive, how much (or to be more precise, how little) prestige it will have in the future.
And the first mention of gamergate influencing the noms came after they were closed…they must have that time traveling machine….
comment for comments
comment on comment for comments
The notion of asking, voluntarily, for 400 blog comments to show up in my mail box is…
Well… NO.
😛
Seriously!
Although threaded comments can be a pain to follow chronologically. Maybe that’s why people do it?
So which reporter are you?
She’s not. She’s my wife and a long time Correia fan, as am I.
I hope that some good comes out of all this turmoil. If we’re lucky, the controversy will inspire hundreds of fans to shoulder some responsibility for ensuring the Hugos represent the finest in Science Fiction. I dream that we will see dozens of people and groups letting people know about stories, novels, and essays that haven’t received the attention they deserved.
I worked at B&N for a while and I cannot imagine how on earth you would know all this about people’s politics. Do people talk about politics when they bop in to pick up a romance? A history book? A kids book? A gift?
Maybe a small subset of the ‘book’ people who want to talk to somebody at barnes and noble about politics and read political books are not curious…
Cameron, that’s what libraries are for ….
So I don’t have to put money in some lieberal’s pocket.
Thank you. I recently started reading Vox Popoli, including going back into older columns. I wondered why Vox Day was being so rabidly (Yes, pun intended) attacked by so many writers (Some of them ones I enjoy).
I haven’t yet seen anything in his work that would make him “hate-filled” “vicious” “racist”… et cetera. I was starting to think there was something wrong with my comprehension.
You have reassured me.
Vox is part of the Dark Enlightenment, or at least shares a lot of their views.
Some of his opinions are too extreme for me, but he is smart, and not some cousin-humping sheet-wearing retard. Which just intensifies the SJW hate.
The only reason it’s called “The Dark Enlightenment” is because “The Dark Enlightenment” sounds way cooler than Neo-Fascism, which is what it undoubtedly is, however much intellectual-sounding arguments are used (as was the case with Fascism the first time around) to dress it up.
Fascism. You keep using that word.
I don’t think it means what you think it means.
If ignorance is bliss, you must be writhing on the floor.
Sadly, I feel that this reverse Spartacus moment (“I am NOT Vox Day!”) is precisely what these trolls want.
At the same time people do need to recognize that grown-ass adults aren’t responsible for what other people say. I am sorry this is draining your time, Larry. This distraction is completely unnecessary and would be easily avoided if some people would just grow up.
Still waiting on the SFWA to distance themselves from MZB or any other pedophiles in their ranks.
I don’t think so. I think this has, like everything Larry has been doing, to do with the bystanders, the yet unconvinced, the newcomers who don’t get what this is about. It’s no different from his explanation post when SP2 was raging back in the day, right after Damien Walters’ slanderous hit piece.
Too right. The ones who are insulting us will keep insulting us, but that only makes them look worse. We need to speak to anyone who will talk to us fairly and try to explain our position. The bullies are better ignored.
Have you ever dealt with a bully? An honest to goodness one?
If you have, is ignoring the tactic you took to deal with it? How did that work out for you?
The SFWA needs to distance itself from the SFWA. From the past 2 presidents to the most boring bloggers, there is no single larger source of anti-white, anti-male and anti-heterosexual sentiment and dogma. Change the word “white” to “black” and it wouldn’t take much convincing to have the Southern Poverty Law Center monitor them as a hate group.
The sheer intensity and number of quotes that emerges from that place is stunning.
Vox Day: not the asshole that the Hugos need, but the asshole that the Hugos deserve.
“…Vox’s just the beast under your bed
In your closet, in your head
Exit light, enter night
Grain of sand
Exit light, enter night
Take my hand
We’re off to never-never land.”
[/James Hetfield off]
😛
Can someone please tell me what makes,Vox Day so evil? I never heard of the dude until this Sad Puppies thing.
I read an article today with an interview with VD, to find out what he actually believes:
http://www.johndbrown.com/what-vox-day-believes/
Thanks for the link. It was a very interesting read.
Jemisin’s speech not only abused all of Australia but even found room for Japan and Italy. I laugh every time I hear an SJW say VD is a supremacist. SJWs clearly have no idea what the word even means.
That makes me never want to become a member of the SFWA to be honest.
Nail in the coffin. I really don’t see what value SFWA offers to their members. Their legal fund is useless per Sarah Hoyt’s linked blog post & a few other things I’ve seen. Their medical fund might be helpful, but is not sufficient, based on how many crowd-funding campaigns to help authors w/ medical bills I’ve seen & participated in. The best reason I can see for joining is to be able to nominate for & vote on the Nebula Awards.
I guess that’s a reason. But the Nebulas seem to be as nebulous (heh) as the Hugos right now.
I can’t remember the last time I actually decided to buy or read a story based on either of those awards. It had to be when I was but a lad in the hot sands of Arizona. Right now my inner 12 year old is crying at this whole kerfluffle, but the adult me is just fed up with it all. Not just in Scifi but everywhere…
To be pedantic… the body of the membership of the SFWA never voted him out, as per the by-laws, so he is NOT actually a former member of the SFWA. Only the board made a vote, and that accomplished…. I’m not sure what, exactly.
IIRC, that rule is not permitted under MA law. SFWA had to go back and revise the rule to make it legal.
Congratulations on producing perhaps the most lucid exposition of the perplexing matter of Mr. Day I’ve ever read – masterly summary indeed!
(And, if it is not too forward and it is not too late and if I am not confusing you with someone else, my most profound condolences upon your recent loss. I have no words ….)
Heh, thanks. I actually am not very lucid these days. I use writing coherent replies as a method of pushing away the painful fog of grief. But as I noted; that is my understanding of Vox’s writing. I started reading his blog to see what the controversy is about, on and off.
And no, it is not too forward and never too late, and no you indeed have not confused me with anyone else. I’m the Shadowdancer Larry posted about who lost her 11 week old son to what is likely SIDS on the 8th of April. Thank you. *hug*
Yah. Heard about that. Condolences. All the best to you and yours. You still have us on your side, the people you love, and others who love you.
I know i had a long reply to this, but I wanted to reply to you specifically. Thanks for the comments and i’m reading up on what you linked to atm. I don’t agree with everything Vox says, but reading has never been about agreement with opinions for me. If it was that, I’d never read anything. I feel sorry for those that think they have to agree with someone to read their work. It’s kind of a pathetic type of thinking and leads to stunted growth.
Sasquan Final Hugo Ballot Adds Novel Three-Body Problem, Short Story “Single Samurai”
http://file770.com/?p=21930
Let’s hope this is the last change to the ballot. I’m sorry about Kloos’ novel not being there, but since it is withdrawn, I’m glad Three-Body Problem replaced it. This is one of the books I really want to read.
You know…Vox Day praised “The Three Body Problem” and IIRC said he would have included it on the Rabid Puppies slate had he known about it at the time.
Seriously.
Oh well: The Flaming Rage Nozzles of Tolerance can still vote for Leckie. Or Noah Ward.
“Paul Weimer Republic retweeted Beth Bernobich @beth_bernobich · 4h 4 hours ago Hello, Not!Sherlock. You are all about black women in the near future. Some (white, male, straight) men are afraid of that. Screw them.”
Or maybe burn them in a fire.
The amazing perversion about SJWs is they are ultra obsessed with racism, bigotry and supremacy and yet seem to be the only bloc of people in SFF who have no actual definitions for those terms.
Or quotes, a thing they seem to have a phobia of.
“It is no coincidence that my book review column features no white male authors.” – Sunil Patel, reviewer at Lightspeed Magazine
See, here I agree with you. This is prejudice, plain and simple, and Patel should be ashamed.
If Jemisin has ever said anything similar, about how she discriminates against authors on the basis of their race, let me know and I will revise my opinion of her.
Jemisin wrote that whites in history had created “…an ingenious system allowing it to dominate most of the planet. (Diabolical… but ingenious.)”
People like Jemisin say the same thing about diabolical Jews, only with her it’s whites.
But it is just a fact that, in the modern age, white people have historically controlled most of the world.
???!!!
This statement is only true for the period from around 1750-1950, whereas “the modern age” is generally held to have begun around 1500. Unless, perhaps, you’re counting the Arabs, Persians, Turks and North Indians as “white?” (Which is actually true in terms of majority-descent, but still ignores the Chinese, Japanese, Southeast Asians and others).
Good Lord, what’s happened to the popular knowledge of history?
Fair enough… I should have said “in LATE modernity”
But why do you think it stopped in 1950?
Is there a quote from Jemisin where she’s suggested discriminating against white authors?
I’ve said before that if she says that anywhere, I will recant my view that she’s not prejudiced against white people.
“Is there a quote from Jemisin where she’s suggested discriminating against white authors?”
Don’t buy books by black authors. Discrimination, yes or no? We could probably even add in there… because books like black authors suck because of black author bad think… and not be exaggerating.
(Or was this Tempest… maybe it was Tempest.)
Don’t buy books by white male authors… exact same statement given with the same reasons… “diverse” authors write better books without white male bad think. Discrimination? Yes or no?
That was Tempest. I agree that she’s prejudiced against whites.
Okay … then perhaps we need to see those on the Tor side of things disassociate themselves from and denounce Tempest‘s anti-white racism. Goose, gander — and the Puppies have the numbers in this fight.
Why yes, yes it is false. Thanks for asking.
Can you name a non-majority-white society since the 18th century that’s held a comparable share of world power to that held by the US and Europe?
Just why should I even bother to try? What’s the point of this? There’s no obvious reason to do so.
Than the U.S.A. and all of Europe combined? No, of course not, because this combination covers more than two continents (given that Russia is European and rules North Asia.
Than America, or a single European Great Power? I can name several: most notably China, Japan and India.
And what does any of this have to do with the immorality of racially discriminating against white science fiction authors?
So whites ARE diabolical? And in a mind of sick paranoia and race hatred, how do YOU know Jews don’t control the world? Couldn’t I point out shit about who it was who established a bank when LIbya fell and that Syria never allowed itself external debt or borrowed money from the IMF and yadda yadda?
See how group defamation works? It doesn’t matter who has had their turn at empire, it doesn’t include me in diabolism. If someone has a problem with the British Raj, go talk to the people who actually did it.
This can all be summarized by; most people are driven by self-interest, throughout history most people have been willing to pursue their self-interest through brutality and atrocity. Name just about any major ethnic group and you can find atrocities they’ve committed and atrocities that others committed against them. It makes no more sense to blame Europeans for the sins of their ancestors than it does to blame any other ethnic/geographic grouping of people for what their forebears did.
And micro-aggression is bullshit. If someone can produce evidence of ACTUAL discrimination against ethnic minorities, not just, “look at the percentages, it MUST be racism, I don’t need to show malicious intent!” then, yes, that is morally wrong, but I don’t think that was ever in question.
Justin, I agree with you that there’s no point blaming white people. People of other races would act the same way if they were the ones who held more power.
There is some evidence of actual discrimination that isn’t just “look at the percentages.” For example, there have been several studies where resumes with stereotypically black names were sent to employers, and these received significantly fewer call-backs than the exact same resume but with a white-sounding name.
http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html
The thing you cite about names and resumes? Freakanomics went into great detail on all the many flaws with it. As a guy who used stats most of his life, I recommend it.
Zoidberg, the names they used in that study are poor black names and middle class white names. Apples and Oranges. You want to know what employers actually think of ethnic names you need to compare Jamal and Bubba to each other and Emily and Michelle to each other.
Because middle class blacks, in the USA, use the same name pool as middle class whites. Like, say, Michelle Obama’s parents did.
Larry, I’ll check that out, thanks.
There are studies, I should add, that show a preference for middle-class male names over female ones. So in the gender case, it’s not about class.
This study shows that callbacks for a research science job are more common for “John” than “Jennifer,” with the same resume:
http://www.pnas.org/content/109/41/16474.full
There was a similar study of resumes for a police chief candidate which was pretty interesting, don’t have the link though.
Yup. Tiffuhneeee and Billy Beau Bob ain’t gunna be gettin’ no callback from that big law firm neither.
Dear freaking DOG Zoidberg… did you just explain that “white societies” have always been more successful than non-white societies? Did you just insist that *white people are better at civilization?”
Honest to freaking DOG Zoidberg… watch yourself!
And then you conveniently disappeared China. *poof*
Not better at civilization, it was just good luck. Guns, Germs, and Steel, yo.
Synova, some people are just chumps. Did you really think hate speech was successfully mainstreamed for a logical reason? It is a failure of intellect and reason, like buying swampland.
” Do you suppose somehow that *guns* was an accident? Luck?”
I’ve always seen them as second only to beer as proof God loves us and wants us to be happy. 😎
Guns, germs and steel – I am reading that book, FYI – notes that the luck is in having the grain and animal types in the continent of Eurasia that lead to the rise of civilizations. It does NOT assign, as you imply, superiority to ‘whites’, but attempts to answer why certain cultures developed in advancement over certain others, and why some cultures remained technologically simple. The book is FAR more complex than you are trying to make out.
And if I may, I believe that you’d have a far better time debating Vox on this than here.
And of the various Eurasian civilisations around 1500, the Europeans were then clearly in the lead, with the gap increasing as time went on. If Diamond’s thesis were true this lead would be difficult to explain. Might there be non-material (and non-racial, since the split does not occur along “racial” lines, either) factors?
“White people”
Ah, I see. Some European powers, whose populations were mostly white, once had great influence over much of the world once so to you and Jemisin et al that excuses judging white people as a whole based upon that history.
So not only do you judge people based upon their perceived race, you judge them based on things that happened before they were even born.
How interesting.
I’m not judging anybody on the basis of this stuff, I’m just saying that what Jemisin said is factually correct, so it’s not racist.
But Zoidberg, it isn’t factually correct. If you believe it is, provide evidence to support your assertion.
Damn.
LC- For what it’s worth, sorry you’re having to do this yet again.
Keep up the good fight.
Chris
Its just you are so much bigger than them. You can destroy the terrible monster haunting their dreams, surely.
I’m sad that the controversy has taken away from one of the best military science fiction anthologies of all time. “Riding a red horse” contains some of the best military science fiction ever written, and will be hailed as such in the future. vox day and tom kratman created a work for the ages, politics completely aside.
Riding the red horse, wish there was a better edit function.
[…] “I’m not Vox Day” – April 16 […]
A clean leg sweep and devastating elbow to the throat. :}
Tell me Larry…. as a Rabid Puppy….
Exactly why shouldn’t we burn this whole hugo thing to ground now… relieve ourselves on the ashes…. Flip everyone involved the bird… and remind them that next year will be far worse if they don’t shut their stupid mouths?
Because we can Larry.
You’re an auditor. You know exactly what the numbers say.
So why shouldn’t we?
We wanted to nuke the whole thing this year and you talked us out of it.
Regretting that decision yet?
Nope. I didn’t start this to destroy anything.
We are doing this because we care about fandom. Laughing at SJWs may be a bonus, but if you are only in this for that reason you may as well save your money. You can laugh at SJWs without voting at the Hugos.
No. That’s why you are doing this. But you’re Sad Puppy.
I am not Sad Puppy.
I am among the most Rabid of Rabid Puppies… and we are doing this for very very different reasons… and we have very very different goals.
We like Larry and Brad. We like Larry and Brad a lot… so we’re playing nice.
And that is the only reason.
Because we can Larry…
We wanted to nuke the whole thing this year and you talked us out of it.
The ridiculous amount of self-confidence on Vox Day and his clown of supporters looks very funny if you manage to look at the situation from far enough distance.
Sure, bro, your tribe can totally, like, destroy Hugo with … er, internet comments and paying $$$ to worldcon! NUKE THEM FROM ORBIT WITH INTERNET COMMENTS!!! It’s the only way to make sure!
You seem to be completely unaware that the Hugos are nearly destroyed at this point already. It will only take the merest push to send them into oblivion.
Judging from the amount of effort you and the other SJW put into nervous laughter and poh-poohing, we’re definitely impacting something.
I don’t think I’m in a war. It’s just that I can read when people say they won’t review books by white men, ask people to not read white men, or say white men should come with trigger warnings, and all of that all day, every day, and from people institutionally well-placed in SFF.
I’ll be interested to hear how he lies to spin this.
What better example of how our intersectional gender feminist KKK uses the word “diversity” as cover? They must think we’re as dumb as they are.
I don’t believe you. Period Dot. Just another lying leftist,
Oh, and they can change the voting system. What they can’t do is claim to be either inclusive or an award that means anything afterward.
Found a quote that I think fits the situation:
“Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
Martin Luther King, Jr.
I would rather be a Vox Day than a SJW.
I can’t imagine being an SJW would be much fun.
Self-flagellation doesn’t get more pleasant when you trade in the whip for self-hating thoughts.
I said nothing I haven’t said repeatedly before. I just put it all in one place because I was sick and tired of repeating myself.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha!!!
Weasel does Weasel moves to try to brush off Weasel Shit.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
You is funny*
*Not really.
So, is your argument that Larry Correia controls Vox Day, or that Vox Day controls Larry Correia? Do you even have a coherent argument, or do you just obtain personal gratification by typing “ha” again and again and again?
I had a disturbing thought after reading this post. Why Larry Correia cannot be Vox? Both men are rather largish, but I bet the latter can fit inside the former. After some preparation involving taxidermy and padding in appropriate places Vox Day can walk among people as Larry Correia and do evil things. Granted, the result of this process may look and sound strange, but nobody expects normal behavior from fantasy writer.
It’s funny how the left wingers always want people on the right to condemn the Vox Days of the world, yet people like GRRM won’t even acknowledge the existence of SJWs, let alone really call them out when they’ve become what is in essence the establishment.
It’s good you reiterated your point about how this is all about free speech and not destroying a person’s career over their political stance.
I can’t wait to hear how this is acceptable.
You know what? The fact that you are willing to explain it to your friends and family is very helpful! You are opening the eyes of people who have not previously agreed to see the truth, to the truth.
Its not even a hard explanation. I just go, you know that group of people we all hate? Yea them.
We just wish you didn’t use a term that trashes something that at least some of us care about.
For the record, I teach a STEM subject at a title one school. That is how I fight for social justice.
Then you also should explain to them just WHY the term “SJW” came about. It’s because that thing you care about has been perverted in the eyes of the rest of the public by the group of people you all hate. And if you want to gain any respect tor what you care about from the rest of us, you need to clean your house. You can’t just stand by and wait for us to do it–we won’t be as “nuanced” or selective as you might be.
You got a problem there, ATF.
I suggest taking the term away from the people who are abusing it.
We have very little influence on the leftist community, and cannot do this job for you.
Liverals…. Whoops.
The very fact that you feel marginalized by our using the term SJW on these people because they use the term SJW themselves is, again, not our problem.
We still cannot fix this for you.
( yea, thoughts about a certain gov agency also flew through my head when I typed that )
I just wanted to post here to say, that the community here has been pretty great. Great thoughts and reasoned responses. Rare for the internet.
The term SJW has been around for quite some time now, it used to mostly describe the Tumblr snowflakes or Big Red of Toronto and their ilk. The original entry for the term on Urban Dictionary is from July of 2011, but until recently there wasn’t much reason to use it outside of certain corners of the internet.
“So how about you give what you ask for, and stop holding Martin, Scalzi, Entertainment Weekly, Arthur Chu, the Neilsen Haydens, and Requires Hate collectively responsible for everything that any of them have said?”
One possible answer: because all these guys are saying the same things and using the same tactics. They are a de facto collective, a hive mind, if you will.
I strongly disagree. As much as I dislike some of those people, equating them with RH is wrong.
TNH and Chu are distinctly different kinds and classes of problems.
I don’t believe Martin even belongs on that list (assuming you meant GRRM)
Lets not lose Clarity out of dislike. With the exception of GRRM and RH, I have seen problematic statements from each one documented and attributed here. SP is holding them responsible for their statements, not each others.
RH’s misdeeds are well documented elsewhere. Repeating the exercise would be wasteful.
“GPS works because of relativity.”
No, it doesn’t. Geometry is hard, I know, but at least try to know what you’re talking about well enough to troll.
GPS works because of simple math … but GPS can be used to prove Relativity.
That microsecond error in the original LSC-Hadron results was due to the clocks on the GPS satellites being 24,000 miles out of the gravity well.
Fascinating stuff …
Sorry, 12,645 miles. 24k is geosynchronous.
Derp.
Hey riley, why don’t you point out where either Larry or Brad said Martin was Hating on them.
Stop trying to lump Martin in with the rest of the mess. He’s been straight with larry and had a civil debate.
EW called them racist, homophobic, etc.
If you’ve been following this, your trying to bring Martin down to the level of Requires Hate, Chu, etc is insulting to Martin.
I had a civil (LONG) discussion with Martin. Chu is a no talent assclown hurling his own feces and asinine allegations while attacking people’s families. They are two very different things. It isn’t Brad who insists on conflating the two.
http://shorttext.com/63133fd9
I don’t know who authored this, but it is GLORIOUS! Best related work for 2016!
It really was. I just posted the link on the Kratskeller, over on Baen’s Bar.
Men,
Hee!
I know exactly who this is. He’s active duty so obviously didn’t want to tie himself too directly to something the SJW would hone in on as an excuse for attacks. I’ll try to pass on that his modest effort was appreciated.
Tom Kratman just read this and thinks it was “funnier, however, than you may guess.” It seems he did pretty much exactly this when he was 15, at “the oldest school in this hemisphere, a school so ancient that Harvard was (I’m serious) founded in good part to give its first graduating class a place to continue their studies.”
The only thing missing is the trumpet call from the _Patton_ soundtrack. 🙂
I was sitting on the sidelines. I supported SP3 but wasn’t a participant. After seeing all of the attempts of the other side to look reasonable while not really budging an inch I decided I needed to get involved. Just bought a supporting membership and am eagerly awaiting my voter packet so I can start reading.
I think you might be late, but you do get to vote next year.
Hey, $40 for a ton of free reading material still ain’t bad.
Those who get a supporting membership now can vote this year, and nominate for next year. Just to clarify.
I am not vox day
What about Groot?
That is my question.
We are all Groot.
*puts tree like arms around everyone to save them from the SJW slings and arrows*
Good thing you’re not Vox Day, because apparently you and Brad are terrified of him!
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-refutation-of-freud.html
Do not give an inch, Larry. Don’t lose faith. Don’t relent. Don’t apologize. Don’t give in to their pressure. Don’t fall for their tactics of isolation and division.
This fight is a microcosm of the battle that must be waged for the very soul of Western Civilization. You, Brad, and Vox have shown the blueprint for how such a war is fought and won. And make no mistake, it is a war, even though few recognize it as such.
Remember this: They shriek because they are losing.
Supremacist Fiction and Fantasy.
That’s all that is.
“Look at it like this. I’m Churchill. Brad is FDR. We wound up on the same side as Stalin.”
Vox isn’t Stalin, he’s Marshal Tito: he’s an effective insurgent fighter who you’re glad isn’t on the other guy’s side, and while you wouldn’t want to live in a country he’s running, he isn’t a monster.
I bought my associate membership yesterday. No Noah Wards for me!
You know who else wasn’t Vox Day? That’s right…
Well, about six billion people aren’t Vox Day…
Vox Day isn’t Vox Day.
I’m not going to DOX him, however.
“Look at it like this. I’m Churchill. Brad is FDR. We wound up on the same side as Stalin.”
Lunatic SJWs screeching that you called them Hitler in 3… 2… 1…
Indeed. Articulate. And clean.
“Nour noice nis naluable nnnnnnnnn”
Joshua said:
liberalism is being shown to the greater, wider world, even beyond gamers and scifi fans, to be absurd, totalitarian, intellectually and morally bankrupt, and populated by childish, mentally ill, rabbity bullies and petty tyrants who are, nonetheless, paper tigers who are relatively easily defeated once one finally wakes up and realizes the need to do so.
==
C’mon, Joshua, don’t hold back – tell us what you REALLY think…
Know SJWs? No peace. No SJWs? Know peace.
“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.” – Desmond Tutu
Nonsense! I’ll sell bullets to *both* sides.
Impressive examples of racist statements from SJWs, James May. SP4 could be titled the fight against racism in SF. Do you have them all collected anywhere?
Maybe Manila, Utah is a white supremacy. Or, at least it skews heavily that way in terms of demographics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila,_Utah
I actually thought it seemed like a nice town when I drove through it last summer on the way to a trailhead in the Uintas.
Nevertheless, most people outside the fight don’t believe this stuff unless you spoonfeed it to them (see Martin’s post, for instance). Collecting them in one place is a huge help.
If someone does, we’ll need either links or screenshots. Nobody will believe the stuff otherwise.
Too late, I’m afraid. You and Vox have been thick as thieves for years now. Indeed, were thieves, trying to steal the Hugos for yourselves and Vox Day’s publishing company (it didn’t escape anyone how you nominated Vox last year, and how he nominated Brad — and how you left spaces open on your ballot this year, so you wouldn’t interfere with Vox’s nominations of Wright).
You attacked the enemy as allies. Now when the enemy attacks you both, you complain.
You and reality parted ways a while back, eh Bob?
Bob and reality don’t even exchange Christmas cards anymore.
Bob is out where the buses don’t go.
Bob uses tinfoil shampoo.
Larry and Vox voting for works different than the ones you personally want to see win is “stealing?”
What gives you the moral claim to own the Hugos?
That’s not satire. this is satire.
Yes. Yes it is.
I hear that if you say Vox Day’s name three times into a mirror, he shows up and triggers you.
My kingdom for a thumbs-up button.
I heard that if you have female suffrage in the Western world for 90+ years, Neo-Fascists are still butthurt about it.
Ah. Libertarians. The “fascism” of leaving people alone.
Of course to get that you’d have to understand what fascism is…..
Cut Ollie some slack. He saw a new word, and it sounds all ooga-booga scary (and much more sophisticated than ‘big meanie poopy-head,’ which is probably what he was using before). Now he’s gotta run around slinging it at people he doesn’t like in hopes of convincing himself he’s smart. Learn what it actually means? That would require possessing an intellect and actually applying it to something, both of which are anathema to SJWs.
Where do you get the notion that the Sad Puppies, many of whom are women, are against female suffrage?
The same place he keeps his head.
Anyone else waiting for the sequel blog post “I am Vox Day?”
#ripleonardnemoy
Bah I typo’d nimoy and didn’t catch it. And I can’t edit a post it looks like…ah poop.
“She had a story in the anthology Long Hidden”
Amazon sales rank: #208,000.
To be fair… how well do most anthologies sell?
honestly, most tend to do better than that, when they have the promotion muscle this kind of politicized thing has backing it. these anthologies don’t sell that well because they are fearfully boring.
Science Fiction Writers Sampler 2014, with a story by Brad Torgersen, is sitting at #15,118. Much higher.
“Riding The Red Horse”, anthology edited by Vox Day and Tom Kratman: Kindle rank #35,209.
😎
The tears, they are delicious.
It wasn’t for want of Scalzi promoting it at his site.
Take a break. Enjoy this. They have big stars like Jorge Aragao and Alcione join them. This is meu povo mo fos.
Question not about SP and RP but I couldn’t find Larry’s e-mail:
I really liked the Grimnoir Chronicles. Are there any sequels planned?
Word is there will be more but in the same world but some years in the future.
First there’s the free short story (on the sample chapters tab up top), then the two Audible sequels. (All already out there.) the next trilogy IS set a few years after Warbound. Larry also has a few ideas for at least one set before Hard Magic (possibly another trilogy- who knows?) but I believe those have completely different protagonists.
(All of this is dependent, of course, on Larry actually getting to write books instead of replying the same thing over and over to folks on his blog… Which is the point of this post…)
Mr Correia,
After some cogitating, I take issue with your statement comparing yourself, Torgerson, and Day to the Big Three.
At present, you are George Marshall, Torgerson is Eisenhower, and Vox Day is Henry Morgenthau.
In his 80s and long retired?
I wish. Go look up the Morgenthau plan on google.
I guess you are talking about Junior and not Senior? Because comparing the Hayden clique to the Armenian genocide seemed a bit much.
Junior.
Vox Day’s planning for the 2016 Hugos strikes as being a little bit too close to “And then we reduce Germany to an agrarian economy.”
Supposedly, when word got out, German regulars started fighting much harder.
Fair enough, but at that point, the Big Three analogy doesn’t really work either.
Being married to an Asian and knowing Asian culture I find the over presentation of Asians amongst those SJW:s making the worst comments hilarious. I guess the whole “model minority” thing doesn’t give that street cred of being super oppressed so much yearned these days.
The problem I have with your statement, Larry, as well as Brad’s is that you’re playing right into GRRM’s attempt to divide the movement to reform the Hugos. You have given the inch, he will now attempt to extract from you the mile. (As he apparently has already done by proposing that he get a word in future Sad Puppies slates.)
You mistake for fear their attempts to use normal people’s compassion for others as a way to control those people. Once you realize what they’re doing and start refusing to play their game, they get screamingly vitriolic.
It’s a fake distress call, the equivalent of a manipulative woman’s tears or the puffings of outrage from a hypocritical man, when they’ve been caught in lies.
I don’t know much about Vox Day, so this isn’t an informed objection, it’s just….Stalin? Really?
Well, if one goes with the best Downfall subtitle ever…
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXxNODbC6IE&w=560&h=315%5D
It isn’t a perfect fit. Soviet foreign policy and their Ukrainian mass murders played a huge role in making a favorable situation for a mad man of Hitler’s qualities.
It simply is not plausible that Vox Day, in the mid nineties, gave industry moderates so great a fear for their livelihoods that they hired a charismatic madman for dictator.
As I said elsewhere on this thread, he’s Marshal Tito: he’s an effective insurgent fighter who you’re glad isn’t on the other guy’s side, and while you wouldn’t want to live in a country he’s running, he isn’t truly a monster.
I find it highly ironic that the crowd that routinely wears Che t-shirts and Mao t-shirts are insisting that Larry and the Sad Puppies disavow Vox Day.
You personally dragged Vox Day to the party. Heck, you tried to drag GG here too. You’re now responsible for that choice. Don’t give me this “no association” nonsense.
Here’s your tweets from Sept and Jan, which everyone’s talking about today. “No association?” Finally caught in your own lies:
https://twitter.com/sinboy/status/589798898325188608
I’m glad that your reputation is now ruined. None too soon.
There are different meanings of association.
You display your integrity – or lack of – by choosing the one that makes us look absolutely the worst, as if under that definition anyone here has control of everyone else.
But then, we don’t live in a fantasy world where we get to control who everyone else talks to and what they do and think.
You don’t seem to realize that your attacks only serve to prove all the assertions that the SPs have made, do you? Silly leftist, unable to understand simple logic.
Wow.
Just…wow.
How dare Larry Correia bring in someone who’s been covering culture brushfire wars when he’s in the middle of one.
Also, the fact that you can’t distinguish between Breitbart London and Gamergate is hilarious.
Kinda hard to use “you’ll never eat lunch in this town again” as a threat against a guy who packs his own brown bag.
“your reputation is now ruined”
Years of attacks from the other side haven’t managed to hurt Larry yet. Quite the opposite.
On Jan 26, you tweeted that you sent Milo an email about how he could get involved with the Hugos. Milo — a popular voice for GG. Shortly thereafter, Milo tweets about how you AND VOX will have big news for us in the near future.
I trust you won’t have an issue sharing that email with the rest of us? Nothing in there would prove that you are a racist, sexist, GG bigot… would it?
Can’t wait to read that email in its entirety, Larry.
Bob – haven’t you heard? Larry can’t be racist. Only white people can be racist, which doesn’t include hispanics.
I find you calling a hispanic names to be highly racist.
Clearly, Bob is Hispanophobic. He should report for sensitivity training 🙂
“Bob – haven’t you heard? Larry can’t be racist. Only white people can be racist, which doesn’t include hispanics.
I find you calling a hispanic names to be highly racist.”
Remember that the Left subscribes to the doctrine of racial/sexual excommunication for any female and/or non-Caucasian who espouses views that stray towards the right. In their theology, Larry is incapable of being anything other than white.
Thus “White Hispanic”
Why does Larry have to prove that he is not a racist or sexist bigot? Why would anyone imagine that GamerGate — which includes women and persons of all races — was “racist” or “sexist?”
Blacks and women are, plain and simple …
… not your shield.
Did you see the latest thing? A con in Canada threw out a group that had already paid dues because they were GG supporters and ‘causing dissention.” That is how far this type of thinking has gone. People assume GG (and Sad Puppies) are a certain way because so many have painted them this way. You can look this stuff up if you want – Look up Calgary Expo and Honey Badgers. It’s sad, man.
I hope that this group is contacting their lawyers, and the con is going to wind up paying them a lot of money (dues plus travel costs, minimum) for their actions.
So, your smoking gun is that he corresponded with a journalist whose beat covers the subject matter of the controversy.
Make sure you have a firm grip on those straws.
Before video gamers began to be attacked by the likes of Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu and Zoe Quinn, was there anyone pushing back against anyone? No. Bigots started this – bizarre feminist bigots and their weird theories about and obsession with white men any time they’re gathered in one place.
You would be the same guy who posted a similar “gotcha” at Brad’s, right?
Wait… So while I was trying to expose SJW corruption I spoke with a reporter known for exposing SJW corruption? And said reporter interviewed more people who were involved in the same fight… and that equals racism/sexism? I’m glad you didn’t tack homophobia on there, since the Breitbart reporter in question is openly gay.
By the way, this was all so super secret that I asked my fans for help with it here: http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/02/04/i-need-your-help-gathering-links-to-sjw-attacks-in-sci-fi-for-a-news-reporter/
You know, nothing makes me not want to do something more than having an asshole demand I do it. 🙂
By the way, Milo has challenged Anita Sarkeesian to a debate and offered to donate 5 grand to a charity. She’ll never accept it. I’ve seen Milo in action – he’ll tear her to shreds.
Hey! The Romans put on circus acts for their funerals. When Gaius Julius Caesar III, the famous one, was in his mid to late teens his father died. He got a bunch of slaves to have death matches, and this was some sort of tradition. We get the word circus from Latin, and the Roman circus may have developed from their funerals.
Also, that one fanfic about the pink ranger being tortured also has a pretty bad reputation. I’d suggest that is at least in contention.
I plotted some Hugo attendance numbers from wikipedia and did a trend fit.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2nm96t&s=8#.VTTKts46WSI
Notes:
the trend is a 3rd degree polynomial, which gave the best fit.
Two green dots at the end are 2014 and ’15 and not included in the fit.
2015 figure is extrapolated from signup frequency @ the sasquan site and has very large error bars.
Conclusions:
1: The Hugo awards are in trouble
2: Puppies seem to fix some of the troubles, but it may be too soon to tell.
Paul, that’s an out-and-out load of crap.
I don’t doubt you’d think so. It’s hard to face the reality that the things people do don’t happen in a vacuum.
You should take your own advice. You clearly haven’t the slightest idea of what’s really happening around you.
Thank you for your kind words.
Wait – context matters, and there’s a whole world that has existed for millions, nay, billions of years, and genetics, and chaos theory, and anti fragile systems and dimorphism and generations succeeding generations and millennia of recorded human history and philosophy that precedes the here and now?
Imagine that. We never knew that before you told us.
Or is this like that “nuance” thing from the 200x’s – often used as s passive-egressive and deniable way of calling us idiots and simpleminded, but never actually used in practice by those proclaiming it?
Are you willing to formally condemn your association with racists and sexists like Jemisin and Bradford? Until you do, you should be aware that these things do not happen in a vacuum, and that your reputation is damaged by the dogs with which you lie down.
Honestly I was being generous, and I would exactly call Larry’s axe all that benign. I mean, he dresses it up all sweetly and pretty like it’s only about promoting positive engagement; he may even truly believe that in his heart. But if he could just step back and examine it freshly, it’s really apparent from the dialogue that there is a truly ugly and contemptuous core to the Sad Puppies project. If there wasn’t, then it wouldn’t have attracted and been emulated by the Rabid Puppies.
That ugly and contemptuous core is so racist, sexist and homophobic they’ll nominate ethnic minorities, women and homosexuals for awards because they’re so racist, sexist and homophobic- is that it?
Your argument that an individual or organization is responsible for its emulators is highly suspect. I’m willing to bet, since you have enough cognition to write the English you can even find the flaw in that reasoning without my help if you think about it.
Just because you’re uninterested in something doesn’t mean it isn’t the crux of the entire controversy. You’re willfully ignoring the whole point of the matter.
You ever see any of us promote literature like this:
“Bee Sriduangkaew @bees_ja 6h Just cobbled this together quickly – a very incomplete list of queer SFF published in 2013 I liked! ”
“Alex D MacFarlane @foxvertebrae 7h I look forward to following it up with THE MAMMOTH BOOK OF SF STORIES BY WOMEN in 2014, which, trust me, is going to be fucking brilliant.”
Try and find just one. I’ll wait.
Meanwhile, you can bet I have 300 just like that.
This kind of axe to grind
FEMINIST LOGIC: 1. Constantly denounce males. 2. Males object to being denounced. 3. This proves men are haters.
Kafkatrap – where even the act of defending yourself (with facts) from a charge of “X”-ism is ALSO proof of whatever you’re being accused of.
It’s really hilarious the way people like you show up calling us nasty vicious names and accuse *us* of being the ugly contemptuous ones. It shows such a massive lack of self-awareness that the mind boggles.
Karin, Paul isn’t unaware; he’s a dishonest liar and a hypocrite. Don’t trust him and don’t deal with him. If he insists on dealing with you, proceed accordingly.
Happy Anniversary Dear!
Yes, Ma’am. Love you.
…And if you could just step back and re-evaluate the situation without the prism of “everyone is trying to oppress women and minorities in someway” belief then you might see that the goal of the campaign was inclusivity. Worldcon and the Hugos became insulated from Fandom at large. Larry has encouraged people who haven’t traditionally been participants to get involved and vote on “the most prestigious award in SFF”.
What really annoys me about these calls for us to “disavow” somebody on “our side” (whether or not Larry considers Vox on his side), is that these people start SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER if we call on them to speak out against their assholes.
I understand what Larry is saying but the hypocrisy (from them) is that they hate to be asked to condemn their assholes.
Is there evidence that Vox has done anything other than recommend a set of stories to people likely to take his advice, such as paying for supporting memberships?
If not, I’m not sure where the ballot-stuffing charge comes from.
I’m not certain enough of the details of Hugo eligibility regulations (especially as they may have developed after the 1987 Scientology campaign) to be sure telling a whole bunch of people to vote this line and ONLY this *doesn’t* count as ballot-stuffing.
If it doesn’t, the situation for the Sad Puppies next year is more fraught — because, sure as eggs is eggs, all the work you-all might put in crafting a slate is going to be hijacked again, to enrich one person in particular.
Is that what you want the Sad Puppies to be *for*?
No, that’s called “campaigning.” And nobody is being forced to vote for anyone, nor are any ballots being forged.
Why is this okay when the Tor Clique does it, but somehow reprehensible when Vox Day does it?
Ah, so you basically want the Hugo Committee to wind up paying lots of money to Castalia House? Why? I thought you didn’t like Castalia House?
(Do you need an explanation of why the Hugo Commitee, or more likely Worldcon as a corporate entity, will wind up paying lots of money to Castalia House? Hint — consider how one gets to vote on a Hugo, and the legal concept of “consideration.”)
Do you know enough about the rules and history of the Hugos to be certain that this would be the case?
In particular, publisher-led vote drives have taken place before; I don’t know how that may have influence how the organization’s rules have developed.
In the case of the 1987 Hugos, fans voted L. Ron Hubbard’s book below “No Award”, to indicate their rejection of his publisher’s (and his religion’s) tactics.
Dear Mr Correia,
You msy be sober in the morning; but you are no Sir Winston.
S (A British purchser of your books)
Yeah, I’m pretty sure I didn’t mean that literally. (And there was no way I was going to claim FDR!)
Though Sir Winston also carried a 1911, so he was a man of excellent tastes.
[…] responds to GRRM. Vox comments. Related: Wright (futilely) calls for peace. Related: Did you know Larry Correia is not Vox Day? Seems some people didn’t. Related: The threat of nuking the Hugo’s only shows SP were […]
So in conclusion, we are not Vox Day.
Of course not. He’s Al Qaeda, and you’re simply the oh-so-innocent Taliban.
Want to take a bet which side of this debate has more people on it who have shot Taliban and Al Qaeda? 🙂
(*nods*)
How dare either Larry or Vox encourage people to vote for different candidates than those already decided upon by far superior souls such as the wise Haydens and John Scalzi? Don’t Larry and Vox know that the awards really belongto the Approved authors, and that voting for other writers is an act of theft? You are to be commended for grasping that encouraging voting for anyone else is a despicable crime!
Which is why you still have your head /sarc
Now go away, you ignorant child.
Scalzi didn’t half-way apologize, he groveled.
Him “calling readers stupid” was something more like a mild “there might be a point to…” the alternate opinions. Because no alternate opinions were allowed.
Winterfox was allowed to gain a following and run free with guilt ridden permission by everyone to be as nasty to “bad people” as possible since it had now become verboten to criticize someone who was “punching up.”
Friends began to unfriend you if you didn’t make public confessions of guilt and privilege, even though those confessions didn’t involve any particular action, only public confession of the new doctrine.
If you can’t see how the public shaming and forced attention to active affirmation of “no matter what a PoC or otherwise identifying person says, they are always always right… also they get to Punch UP” is involved in a whole bunch of ridiculously privileged white upper middle class women making a freaking FETISH out of forcing this on the whole genre, well, you’re wrong.
If you are defining “conspiracy” as something deliberately planned, maybe not. The far better term would be innate. As in they can’t help being hateful any more than a rattlesnake can help being venomous. And in both cases, the remedy doesn’t involve hate, just appropriate weapons.
I already knew all that. No one’s saying this was invented then, but that it was a flashpoint where folks discovered how they could muscle people around by shaming them. It was a perfect storm of certain intersectional authors entering just then and the real eruption of social media.
“Intersectional author” and “toxic behavior” are interchangeable expressions.
[…] (and to John Scalzi’s amusement) Sad Puppies leaders Larry Correia and Brad Torgersen have tried to distance themselves from him. (A bit too late, given that he’s already gotten what he wanted out of them, but better late […]
[…] Is Theodore Beale of the Rabid Puppies on the same side as Brad Torgersen and Larry Correia? Correia suggests they are: “Look at it like this. I’m Churchill. Brad is FDR. We wound up on the same side as […]
[…] Is Theodore Beale of the Rabid Puppies on the identical aspect as Brad Torgersen and Larry Correia? Correia suggests they are: “Take a look at it like this. I’m Churchill. Brad is FDR. We wound up on the identical […]
I was told by one of his supporters yesterday that Vox is also a fan of Umberto Eco and China Mieville.
God damn it, now I can’t re-read Foucault’s Pendulum, in protest!
[/Sarcasm]
Bless you Larry, you can pound nails into a fence post but not sense into an “intellectual.” But of course, the simple, observable facts must be repeatedly shoved into their noses… well, so you can prove to the court later that you tried, and due diligence is on your side.
[…] Monster Hunter Nation by Larry Correia – I’m not Vox Day […]
If you look around you and realize that everyone you know is an asshole, there’s probably a reason. Birds of a feather, and all that.
“If you look around you and realize that everyone you know is an asshole, there’s probably a reason. Birds of a feather, and all that.”
*sniff sniff* Something suddenly smells like urine-soaked adult diapers and impotent rage…. necroposting on a blogpost with Vox’s name on it… oh look, it’s Clamps!
The people around me aren’t the ones who just voted No Award above more than 2 dozen nominees. Maybe you should take another look around you.