Monster Hunter Nation

Well, this sucks.

Today two talented, worthy, deserving authors who we had on the Sad Puppies 3 slate gave up their Hugo nominations.

Annie Bellet: https://overactive.wordpress.com/2015/04/15/hugo-story-withdrawn/

And Marko Kloos: http://www.munchkinwrangler.com/2015/04/15/a-statement-on-my-hugo-nomination/

Nobody should give either of these authors anything other than kind words. You should bear them no ill will for this decision. They are damned good writers and you have no idea idea what they’ve been through recently.

Marko added this statement on Facebook:

My withdrawal has nothing to do with Larry Correia or Brad Torgersen. I don’t know Brad personally, but Larry is a long-time online acquaintance and friend. We’ve known each other since before our writing days. I have no issue with Larry or the Sad Puppies. I’m pulling out of the Hugo process solely because Vox Day also included me on his “Rabid Puppies” slate, and his RP crowd provided the necessary weight to the ballot to put me on the shortlist. I think Vox Day is a shitbag of the first order, and I don’t want any association with him, especially not a Hugo nomination made possible by his followers being the deciding factor. That stench don’t wash off.

##

Personally, I think this sucks. We were trying to get talented quality writers on the ballot who would normally be ignored. Neither of these share my politics. There are some amazing authors nominated for the first time, and I wish that people would just read the fucking books, but hell, who am I kidding? I’m tired of repeating myself. Some of the stuff I’ve seen go down over the last two weeks is so infuriating it would blow your mind.

For the 100th damned time, Vox wasn’t on SP3. He did his own thing. Now authors are being tried for guilt by association with somebody they never chose to associate with, and their nominations are somehow meaningless because the wrong person plugged their work.

That’s unfair bullshit and you all know it.

I’d encourage everyone to still check out Marko and Annie’s work because they are awesome writers.

I'm not Vox Day
Wendell's Roughnecks shirts
Keith Glass
Guest

This is sad: I’ve already read Marko’s book, was looking forward to Annie’s in the Voter Packet . . .

Jase
Guest
The Phantom
Guest

Thanks for that Jase. I’ll read it and post a review.

Eventually. ~:)

RAH
Guest

Thanks for the link. That story of Annie’s was just superb. It made me cry. I would have voted for it.

Karl Weiss-Weiss
Guest

Excellent story. Definitely Hugo material.

Keith Glass
Guest

I just finished reading that. It was AMAZING. We are lessened by it not being a nominee. . .

Alligosh
Guest

It had me until “He flicked the safety on and kept the gun low at his side”.

On a Glock??!?

Jared Anjewierden
Guest

Well frack.

I’ve had Annie’s other stuff on my short to be read list for awhile now, and I was really looking forward to reading/rereading all of the stories to decide if she still had my top spot.

This freaking sucks.

Julie Frost
Guest

Annie’s story will be included in Shattered Shields in the voter packet, so you can still read it. 🙂

Jeff Weimer
Guest

Well, we can use this, and John Wright’s disqualified entry, to see if the replacement entries are of the same or better quality.

Jccarlton
Guest

Here’s one of them. What are our friends the CHORFs putting up in their place? More of this dreck:
http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-day-the-world-turned-upside-down/
I mean seriously, bad physics, really bad writing, I mean, grade school level, being considered for the “Best in SF.” THIS is what the SJWs are pushing. By the time they are done there won’t be anything left.

RobM
Guest

I just finished reading this and I would really like my time back. I shudder to think of this being up for any award.

The Phantom
Guest

I stopped reading when the main character let the woman die while he tried to rescue his goldfish.

Don’t need to have that polluting my brain, at all.

So much of SF/F is composed of shit like this too. Really gotta do Sad Puppies 4-14, just to keep that kind of bollocks down in the slush pile where it belongs.

Keith Glass
Guest

So. . . “If you were a Goldfish, my love?”

(evil grin)

Alligosh
Guest

wow. That’s actually… quite bad.

The flow is off, the dialog stilted, and the entire piece reads like a twelve year old wrote it.

Feather Blade
Guest

The author has obviously never kept fish.

Troushers
Guest

Hey, why WOULDN’T a goldfish survive in a weak acid-sugar solution?

Karl Peterson
Guest

I quit reading when he dumped the fish into a bottle of 7-Up AND IT SURVIVED.

I have nearly 300 gallons of freshwater tanks in my house. Ask me if a fish can survive in 7-Up. Go ahead.

Oh, wait. THAT must the part of the story that’s science fiction.

JustAGuyOnTheWeb
Guest

You mean fish don’t turn CO2 into O2?

Julie Frost
Guest

To be fair, it’s a translation from Dutch.

But, yeah, I read the whole thing and kept waiting for something to actually, you know. Happen. It’s a story about letting go in which the main character never actually does let go. We leave him climbing down a rope ladder, still holding on.

aacid14
Guest

Where is the actual science in this fiction. The fantasy/sci-fi in it is at best a Macguffin for the rest of the story. It could have just as easily been an earthquake or fire and nothing would change. Shouldn’t a sci-fi/fantasy award nominee have sci-fi or fantasy as a focal point? That just seems a basic requirement for the genre (Even by Larry’s ‘genre’s just somewhere to shelve it’ arguments)

Steven Merrill
Guest

O.K. Omnomnom bit cracked me up, I gotta ask, is this real? I worked at 2 jobs today; and did my taxes during lunch, so I am a bit fried. But please tell me this is satire. Please, cuz if it is, it is brilliant, if not… Wow.

Vivienne Raper
Guest

I’ve just blogged about The Day Turned Upside Down (and Goodnight Stars) if anyone is interested:

http://www.futureslesstravelled.com/?p=71

I’ve just started writing a ‘fiction techniques’ blog. And I’m explaining why I think “The Day…” is message fiction and why political message fiction can be uncomfortable. I’m not sure I’m correct, as I read both stories quite quickly, so all thoughts welcome.

Duke of URL
Guest

That story is terrible in so many ways, I don’t have enough words to condemn it…

Don F
Guest

Couldn’t get through that … was there even an effort to explain why the atmosphere didn’t fly away and everyone suffocate instantly?

Khazlek
Guest

Well, we can use this, and John Wright’s disqualified entry, to see if the replacement entries are of the same or better quality.

Maybe not. I thought the RP list just added works were the SP list hadn’t nominated 5, but I was mistaken, because I didn’t look at the lists closely enough.

Two Sad Puppy nominees were out-nominated by RP nominees, Megan Grey and Steve Diamond. Given how well the puppies did overall, it seems likely that one of the two would be the replacement, if there is one.

http://difficultrun.nathanielgivens.com/2015/04/14/sad-puppy-data-analysis/

Rob
Guest

I’m buying books from both Marko and Annie (already bought Marko’s when I read his blog; getting Annie’s tonight).

I wish others had the required intestinal fortitude to make clear what a horrible human being Vox Day is and to disassociate themselves in no uncertain terms, just the way Marko did. Brad Torgersen’s mealy-mouthed dancing around the issue hasn’t gained him any respect.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

Get back to us when everyone on your team disavows Marxism, a philosophy that is directly responsible for the murder of over one hundred million people.

And counting.

Johnathan
Guest
>”Get back to us when everyone on your team disavows Marxism, a philosophy that is directly responsible for the murder of over one hundred million people.” Oh, we’re playing that game? Let’s discuss a little evil known as Colonization then, and how Western Europe and the entire Anglosphere (that includes America!) are guilty of not only warcrimes, crimes against humanity and literal genocide. Did you know the population of the Americas was greater than Western Europe prior to European Colonization? Let’s attribute the mass-genocide of the >100,000,000 (that’s one hundred million) natives of the Americas to the Western European and… Read more »
Andrew
Guest

Yeh, but I’m not a Colonialist nor do I support any Divine Right, be it to rule or land. It’s not like there’s anyone running around saying,”Colonial Imperialism was a really good idea, but no one’s ever really done REAL Colonial Imperialism”.

There’s all sorts of people who currently, today, claim to be socialists, Marxists and such, and pretty much all of them wind up at “but Mao/Stalin/Hitler wasn’t REAL socialism”.

I’m not for holding individuals accountable for the deeds of their ancestors. When they advocate for a policy…then it’s fair.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

“pretty much all of them wind up at ‘but Mao/Stalin/Hitler wasn’t REAL socialism'”.

Bingo. The fact that it’s turned into slavery, starvation, and mass murder every other time doesn’t count. It will be different with the Right People in charge — where “Right People” is defined as the Johnathan type of cafe commie, who are always too stupid and/or ignorant of history to realize that the Johnathans are always the first ones sent to the death camps, come the revolution.

sean
Guest
Doc Locketopus said ““pretty much all of them wind up at ‘but Mao/Stalin/Hitler wasn’t REAL socialism’”. Bingo. The fact that it’s turned into slavery, starvation, and mass murder every other time doesn’t count. It will be different with the Right People in charge — where “Right People” is defined as the Johnathan type of cafe commie, who are always too stupid and/or ignorant of history to realize that the Johnathans are always the first ones sent to the death camps, come the revolution.” If this comment was on face book I’d be bemoaning the lack of an “Holy shit that’s… Read more »
suburbanbanshee
Guest

Which Native American cultures rejected conquest and colonization of other Native American civilizations?

Which Asian ones? Which African ones?

Crazdmadman
Guest

Small pox sucked.

But it happened long before there was mass colonization.

Feather Blade
Guest

If it were as easy to ethnically cleanse a continent as you are suggesting, the Vikings would have done it 600 years before the Portugese and English even tried. Instead the Vikings – the Vikings – – were driven away by the natives.

The only reason that Europeans were able to colonize the Americas is because a plague had already wiped out the natives before the Europeans ever arrived.

The only thing the Europeans were “guilty” of is building their American civilization on somebody else’s post-cataclysmic wasteland.

Patrick Chester
Guest

Well, they were sometimes harsh to the survivors, but as Andrew pointed out, you won’t find many people saying Colonialism wasn’t done correctly and it needs to be tried again.

Marxism and it’s various flavors? Yeah, lots of people keep claiming it wasn’t really tried correctly and it will be better this time.

Which I guess means a billion will die next time and people like Johnathan will screech “but… but COLONIALISM!!!”

Andrew
Guest

Well…plague and steel, and gunpowder..the sail…printing presses…scientific method…

Sure, plague made having a foothold easier, but I don’t see a way for a late-stone culture to avoid being assimilated or destroyed by contact with a culture that’s inventing mechanical clocks.

Lea
Guest

Whatever happens we have got the maxim gun and try have not.

But yeah, nobody is all ‘let’s do colonialism again!’

Joshua
Guest

“Well, they were sometimes harsh to the survivors,”

And vice versa. This notion of evil white people vs. virtuous and peaceful natives is a preposterous false narrative.

Duke of URL
Guest

You know perfectly well that you can’t get facts through to someone whose mind was already made up.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

” Let’s discuss a little evil known as Colonization”

Colonization is largely a thing of the past, and you’ll find few supporters of it.

Marxism is still with us, and is busy murdering more people even as we speak.

Thanks for playing, though. You’ve been indoctrinated well.

60guilders
Guest

Excuse me while I laugh in the face of your first paragraph. That’s a highball estimate, and most historians set it at around half of that.
Furthermore, most of the natives who were killed died of disease, and thus died–well, accidentally. It’s not like the Europeans understood germ theory and acquired immunity.
Whereas Marxism, on the other hand, deliberately sets about killing anyone who stands in its way. And, as pointed out to you, there are still Marxists. There are no colonialists.

Ad Astra
Guest
100,000,000 population in a preindustrial agrarian and/or stone age nomadic cultures. hang on …HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH…..ok ya sure “No one in America is “good” if we must bear the sins of others in history who share some semblance of our ideas.” ya so you realize the worst of those population loses occurred in areas of Spanish dominion right? So what semblance of ideals did the US founders share with Spanish monarchists? And have you ever actually looked at the ancestry of the vast majority of the current population of Central and South America? Yup not a drop of indigenous blood there. Also… Read more »
Joshua
Guest
You’re stupid. Most of those people died without ever having seen or been seen by a Western European. And they were in fact colonialists themselves; they are not the original inhabitants of North America. Or do you want to talk about the colonialism of the Jews? How about the colonialism of the Chinese? How about Muslim colonialism? For that matter, you do realize colonialism happened several centuries ago in North America, right? You and your stupid false equivalencies, your empty-headed rhetoric which tries to tie whatever sounds vaguely “feelbaddish” no matter how completely and totally unrelated it is. When anyone… Read more »
Doug Loss
Guest

This is just a load of crap. The Native American population had gone through a massive disease-related reduction greater than the European Black Death, perhaps 100 years before European colonization began. The rest of your post is merely the standard western-civilization-hating spew we’ve come to expect from the left.

Laowei
Guest
Let’s actually look at a little history as well before we judge our forebears too harshly for their treatment of peace-loving, eco-friendly previous colonization wave. Read the native american role in King Phillips war and the American revolution. Essentially both the French and British used them to commit atrocities that neither side had the stomach to commit themselves. If you pick the losing side of two major wars to commit atrocities, you can expect the reconciliation process to be difficult. Read about the Comanche and how they were viewed even by the other Indian tribes. They were an apocalyptic death… Read more »
Scot
Guest

You realize that the drop in population in the Americas was primarily due to inadvertent transmission of diseases, I hope. (I probably need to emphasize the ‘inadvertent’ part of that, the majority of the deaths due to disease occurred before there was any significant European presence in the Americas. No significant part of it was deliberate.)

Find me a society 600 years ago that wouldn’t be “guilty” of crimes that were only invented in the last century or so.

SDN
Guest

Jonathan the liar apparently doesn’t realize that there weren’t 100 million people in North America when Columbus arrived. Period fucking dot.

SDN
Guest

Oh, and Jonathan? If you believe in Evolution, there is no such thing as genocide. There’s only inferior genetics losing to superior. So get stuffed.

DaveP.
Guest

…he said, in English, over the Internet.

keranih
Guest

So do you want this posted in 40 point font or will 18 pt do? And should it be in all red caps and bold?

Can we just send you an email notifying you when the disavow goes up, or do you want it out on Twitter, too? OH! And do we have to send a copy to VD, too?

And then who will you want everyone to denounce?

Go stuff it. You got a problem with VD, you go take it up with him. Quit using your hard on for him as an excuse to bash others.

Adam Lawson
Guest

Brad Torgersen isn’t associated with Vox — he doesn’t NEED to distance himself.

Brad could burn Vox in effigy and it wouldn’t gain him any respect, either. Insinuating otherwise is dishonest at best.

PavePusher
Guest

Fuck your purity test and fuck you.

Patrick Chester
Guest

Now now… you don’t know where Rob’s been.

Jeff Gauch
Guest

I hope you realize that Vox Day is a far better human being that you are. For one thing, he isn’t a vile Progressive, so that’s a good million shithead points knocked off his tally. Plus he’s at least honest about his positions, questionable as they may be. He doesn’t mewl around playing passive-agressive bullshit games.

Since you’re big into denouncing: With sincere heart and unfeigned faith I abjure, curse, and detest you.

Stingray
Guest

“I’m an asshole, and here are the exact ways I’m an asshole, but at least I’m honest about it.”

Gosh. Just gives me all the warm fuzzies.

Feather Blade
Guest

Better that than the alternative.

It is easier to avoid a hazard that’s decked out in hazard lights and reflective tape, after all.

Synova
Guest

It gives me the warm fuzzies. What’s your problem?

One self admitted asshole admits he’s an asshole and has no power over you.

The others pretend they are upright and true and do their best to control you, punish you, and if you don’t comply, keep you OUT and likely have the power to do so.

Give me the first guy. Seriously.

Feather Blade
Guest

My bad. I mistook your warm fuzzies comment for a sarcastic rather than genuine sentiment.

I am in full agreement with you on this point

BigGaySteve
Guest

I post over at Vox but I am new here so I can’t tell if you are serious or being a parody. I am the one that puts black/moslem on gay attacks links up over at Gaypatriot.

Joshua
Guest

You do realize that the rabid puppies folks are now talking about putting forward a 2016 slate of SJW BS, especially Scalzi, JUST to see if they’ll take a “principled stand” and refuse the nominations or not, right?

You morons are too stupid to think that you could run the Hugos as your own little private dacha. The Hugos Reconquista will continue apace. If they have to get burned down in order to be rebuilt, at least when all’s said and done, they’ll be about quality science fiction again.

James May
Guest

What Brad did is a lot more than what IntFem’s have done regarding their own problem children. Not only do they not call them out they give them awards. When it comes to giving Vox Day an award they don’t want to. I cannot detect what standard they are employing that would lead to that.

#DitchYourRacists

Ted N
Guest

Fuck off, McCarthy, and fuck all your shitty friends too.

Joshua
Guest

Contrary to what you’ve been taught by several generations now of cultural Marxist teachers, McCarthy was 1) polite and professional, and 2) correct about Soviet spies.

All kinds of things, including especially the Venona Project. have proven McCarthy right. Own McCarthyism. It wasn’t anything like what the progressives have lied to us for years and said it was.

Heck, McCarthy wasn’t even very right wing.

Doug Loss
Guest

Exactly. To make leftist heads explode, tell them, “McCarthy was right!” and then prove it to them.

Nicole
Guest

I kinda wish Vox would have called his movement Rabid Wombats or something just to keep things clear :/

David Lang
Guest

he picked rabid puppies specifically to ride on the coattails of sad puppies, so we can wish he would do something different, but there’s no reason to expect him to listen.

NKR
Guest

I defend VD on the deliberate misinterpretation of his intellectual debate, but I think he’s a selfish dick for coopting the SP name and imagery. Now it’s all about him. Presumably that’s why he did what he did.

But much of the stuff they attribute to him is edited and twisted out of context. That doesn’t change the fact that he does seem, in fact, to be an asshole.

Still, forced disassociation is a cornerstone of fascism. And these people like to think they’re inclusive.

Suburbanbanshee
Guest

If he’d called it Rabid Wombats, the SJWs would still have “confused” the two slates.

Because nobody is really confused. They are choosing not to pay attention to the differences, just like people choose to see no difference between Gamergate and SP3. They do it all the time on matters of more moment (like conservative Republican vs. social libertarian), so why would you expect anything different?

Suburbanbanshee
Guest
Also, of course they’re still trying to isolate Vox Day and make him a scapegoat, and of course they would love for the rest of us to play their SJW game. It’s exactly the same thing that the clique people used to do in junior high to the designated victim. “If only you would just stop hanging out with Suburbanbanshee, we would liiiiike you. Her geekiness and constant bookreading is the only thing between you and popularity, we swear.” Although of course, some people don’t have to be asked. They see the writing on the wall and drop their friends… Read more »
Dan Lane
Guest

Yup. It’s about attacking the person, not their ideas. Vox is “nasty, badbad, horribul, and, and evul!” It’s not enough to disagree with his ideas. Ya gotta join in the witch hunt.

It gets real old, hearing the same old pathetic nonsense from a thousand different mouths (and sockpuppets).

BigGaySteve
Guest

Maybe they could make something along the lines of By Vectron http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2009/12/17/all-hail-vectron-video/

Well this sucks on of the funniest sci fi skits is banned in the US, but a lot of there other works are not.

John Van Stry
Guest

And this just proves that the Hugos have been rigged for years, and that if you’re not one of the rightpeople having rightfun, that you will be PUNISHED.

I feel sorry for these authors, they did nothing wrong. But leftists really don’t care who they kill, maim, or destroy, as long as they get their way. I’m sure they were being put through hell, and were seeing their careers destroyed, because they had the bad luck to have been nominated out of turn.

So much for any calls of ‘temperance’ or ‘moderation’ from the left, huh?

Kristophr
Guest

What’s really hilarious is that some leftards are congratulating Marko now for declining the nomination, and promising to read his books.

They are going to get a fucking shock when they read what he has to say about his future Earth universal welfare state.

rocinante2
Guest

Evil genius, that.

He apparently has a pretty low opinion of government, bureaucrats, political elites, etc., too. 🙂

His withdrawal won’t stop me buying his stuff, but has apparently convinced a number of SJWs to give his work a try.

I wish I could be there for the head explosions.

h jay adkins
Guest

Every time folks generalize the “other” and make blanket statements about how “all of those people are jerks” (or worse) they are in the wrong. Whether the person saying that is on the left or the right makes no difference it is wrong in either case. That goes for the sjw folks smearing the authors on the sp or rp slates with a broad brush AND sp folks smearing “liberals”. I’m pretty liberal and support the sp folks and think the sjw folks should sit down and shut up.

John Van Stry
Guest

I’m not talking about the ‘other’, I’m talking about a group with a well known and established track record.
Sorry if history isn’t your thing.

Faceh
Guest

Ironically this possibly presents a new strategy wherein Vox can simply support any of the writers he wants to see drop out in order to target the unwashed masses.

NKR
Guest

Yep. Look for that next year.

Adam Lawson
Guest

Don’t think for a second this isn’t something VD has considered. Whether you like the man or not he is good at figuring out how to piss off people he doesn’t like.

Kristophr
Guest

It probably won’t have the slightest effect on the CHORFs.

Although I’d pay to see Scalzi’s reaction if Vox nominates his work.

Adam Lawson
Guest

I’d chip in, but not watch. I cannot stand to see Scalzi.

Larry is right about that guy being distasteful.

Wes S.
Guest

Save your money; you’ll need it for the anti-nausea meds when Scalzi accepts his nomination with a weaselly shit-eating grin.

perlhaqr
Guest

This was pretty much my “hacker brain” solution for the next step of escalation.

“Take whatever slate ‘Making Light’ puts up and endorse that.”

Followed by “Make a list of every eligible work from 2015, and endorse that.”

Of course, we already know they have no consistency, so they won’t stand by their principle of “No Award anything VD endorsed”. *shrug*

B.Malloy
Guest

That’s a shame. Lines of Departure was excellent. I was going to have a hard time deciding whether to vote for Marko or Jim Butcher.

Wombat-socho
Guest

I was going to vote for Lines of Departure myself. Guess I’ll have to read the other nominees now or just vote No Award in protest of Marko’s withdrawal.

Dorothy Grant
Guest

Read the nominees, and decide. That’s always been half of the goal of Sad Puppies: to get more good stories on the ballot, and then to get more people to read and decide what they like best.

You can still help us win, even if it won’t be those two good authors! (Besides, you still have them as two people to try out and buy more if you like it!)

sean
Guest

well I just read , or tried to at any rate…the story they replaced Annie with. Uhhh..are we sure there isn’t someway I can get that time back? Dear lord someone invent a time machine now…..

Frank Ney
Guest

I couldn’t even get past the halfway point. My brain can process a limited amount of stupid in any given timeframe.

Beolach
Guest

Have they actually, officially announced replacements? I’ve been watching, but I haven’t seen it… as far as I know, it’s still possible there may not replace them, and there may only be 4 nominees on the final ballot for these categories…

J. Carl Henderson
Guest

Gamergate has a time machine. It’s how we started Sad Puppies three years before we existed. Our time travel technology was given to us by the Daleks, in recognition of Gamergate’s superior evilness. But we won’t let you ride in it. Because evil, you know?

Beolach
Guest

Replying to myself, looks like it is official now, there are replacements.
http://www.thehugoawards.org/2015/04/two-finalists-withdraw-from-2015-hugo-awards/

Barb Caffrey
Guest
That’s exactly what I said, B. I said the same thing about both works — Annie’s, and Marko’s. They both write very well. I do not have a supporting membership myself, but if I did, I would’ve read everything else and probably _still_ voted for them because I felt what they were doing was quite worthy and valuable. I do want to point out that not every liberal or centrist person approves of the tactics of the folks I’d like to call “the traditionalists” (rather than so-called SJWs or whatever). I definitely am to the left of many who post… Read more »
Barb Caffrey
Guest

BTW, Brad, sorry about misspelling your name. (I was typing too fast there.) It’s Torgersen…with an “e.” (I live in a place with many -on/-en name suffixes, so I should’ve been more careful.)

Frank Ney
Guest

But we’re the wrong sort of fan and they don’t want our money.

Jackson Carberry
Guest

There’s a similarity with the video game activists who are against people like Sarkesian and Co. fucking up video games with trashy crap that’s less game/decent graphics and mostly all polemic and preachiness. And yes, like you, I too am a flaming liberal that supports the SP’s against all of these crappy books being given Hugos, Nebulas, and PKD’s year after year-if this happens to video games, the industry will suffer a collapse similar to the crash of 1983/84

Jill
Guest
This is a shame. It will probably also embolden folks on the left to turn up the pressure on the remaining candidates to try to force as many of them as possible to withdraw. From their perspective, they just need a single non-SP or non-RP candidate for each award so they can block vote for that person regardless of the quality of the candidate works. Vote for the non-puppy affiliated candidate, rank everyone else below “No Award”, shut out the puppy-backed candidates, and not quite unleash “the Kurgan” by using No Award as the top choice for everything.
TheNybbler
Guest

The Kurgan will unleash himself no matter what dirty tricks they play. Watch him put a few SJWs on his slate next year just to get them to withdraw.

AG
Guest

The strange thing is seeing some of the ones who were insulting these poor writers only a few hours ago saying how marvelous they are and how they are going to buy their book.

John Van Stry
Guest

And you can be sure that they AREN’T really going to buy the book, they’re just saying that to make themselves look good.

Kristophr
Guest

If they did read it, their little heads would pop.

BigGaySteve
Guest

I actually tricked some gays into going to see Ender’s Game by lying about the shower scene. I told STR8s they could tell people that their steak eating gay friend that isn’t afraid of weapons said it was ok to watch it.

Feather Blade
Guest

Well it wouldn’t be proper operant conditioning if they didn’t hand out treats for the desired behavior, would it?

Iron Spartan
Guest

Why would that be strange? They have returned to the fold by aligning themselves with proper group think. Those that surrender to the collective will be rewarded.

Wes S.
Guest
The other way to look at that is: “If you pay the Danegeld you never get rid of the Dane.” I understand why Marko and Annie pulled out, and I’m *not* attacking them for it…but the sad and unlovely truth is that both of them have just effectively given the Flaming Rage Nozzles of Tolerance veto power over their writing and their literary careers. Whatever short-term rewards they might reap isn’t going to offset the fact that, long term, they’ve just bundled themselves into straitjackets. And it’s not doing the image of the Hugos any good, either. But then again,… Read more »
Bjorn the Horse
Guest

Just remember what happened to Winston Smith after he was fully conditioned to love Big Brother…

Frank Ney
Guest

We’re the only ones that remember that. George Orwell has been removed from the reading lists and the libraries of our high schools.

Nohbody
Guest

Unfortunately, many people seem to fail to understand that 1984 was a warning>, not a blueprint.

Frank Ney
Guest

For about the past ten years a Hugo nomination has been the flag to put the work on my “must miss” list. My limit for organized stupid is quite low.

Synova
Guest

Those surrendering to the collective aren’t rewarded by anything other than dependence on the collective.

Shaming and most of the harassment is primarily an IN GROUP control mechanism.

AspiringTruFan
Guest

I think the stench of Vox Day is indeed strong, but would wash off.

Winning (or even placing ahead of noah ward) while being on the rabid puppies slate would be clear sign that whatever piece we are talking about is damm good indeed.

I too am sorry to see this. Marko did make it clear that he saw the Rabid Puppies as a separate movement.

I plan to read and vote. I haven’t even looked over the Rabid Puppies slate, so I don’t prejudge those books.

I care about the Hugo.

Doug Loss
Guest

To be honest, I no longer care about the Hugos. They have been irreparably damaged by the SJWs. The awards mean less than nothing to me at this point; I’ll stay away from Hugo winners unless I hear from some other source that they’re worth reading.

Julie Frost
Guest

Oh, look, the Agents of Inclusion and Tolerance have succeeded in bullying a woman off the nomination list because someone she had no control over liked her story.

I hope they’re fucking proud of themselves.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

A bisexual socialist woman, no less.

Perhaps this will open up a slot for Hip Young Person of Color John Scalzi to win another award.

For “diversity”.

sean
Guest

I saw what they replaced her with….and I can’t get that time back…dammit

Shadowdancer
Guest

Of course they are.

After all, the wrongfans aren’t allowed to like the same stuff they like. It’s verboten!

The thing I’m wondering is, how do they know who’ll get bumped up?

Jaxon Jensen
Guest

Offtopic, but since you’re in this thread, you might find it worthwhile.

http://www.seattletimes.com/life/wellness/one-seattle-childrens-doctor-thinks-he-close-to-stopping-sids/

Shadowdancer
Guest
Thank you for the link. It’s a fascinating theory, and I’m wondering about that. Brandon didn’t like to be held horizontally, but preferred to be held at an angle, or held upright. The researcher’s site is here, and if folks feel it worthwhile, it may be worth it to donate. http://www.sidsguild.org/ Personally, if the Hugos end up losing the folk whose works I consider worthy and replace them with gray goo, there’s no worth in spending for the ability to nominate or vote for the Hugos. I would rather spend my money on a cause like this every year, than… Read more »
Nate
Guest

good to see ya around kid. been prayin’ for ya.

Shadowdancer
Guest

I pop in now and then, as a distraction when I start hurting too much.

Thank you so much for the prayers. They are greatly appreciated.

Kary English
Guest

Big, big hugs to you and yours. I’ve miscarried before, and I can’t even imagine what you must be going through.

Hang in there,

Kary

Coop
Guest
Don’t you get it? They ramped up the pressure specifically on the authors who identified as being on the left, or whatever the SJW’s “ONE OF US” category includes. They want the people who are supposed to be on THEIR side to drop out, so that the shortlist becomes more homogeneous with “right-wing, white male” authors. Thus giving their bullshit claims more perceived credibility. It is the same procedure as when a black person or a gay person comes out as a conservative. They are attacked with orders of magnitude more ferocity than the usual targets, because they need to… Read more »
Leatherwing
Guest

When did Marko identify as being on the left? I can’t say that I know his politics, but I’ve been reading his blog for a few years and think he’s libertarian. Like most real people, I don’t think he completely agrees with any party, seems more like an independent thinker.

keranih
Guest

There really needs to be a Pox party. As in “A Pox on All Your Houses” party.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Yup. We didn’t take a gay woman off the Hugo list. THEY did.

Karen Miller
Guest

This, a thousand times.

AG
Guest

There will be plenty of time for that, but I was saying at Brad’s blog that the strategy next year will have to be rethought, because regular writer can’t be expected to subject themselves to this level of abuse.

keranih
Guest

I myself wonder if there are not some people eagerly scribbling away with the intent of having something fit to publish in time for consideration.

Reziac
Guest

I had that very thought.

*sharpens pencil*

Achillea
Guest

I’m about 2,000 words into mine, myself. I don’t have Twitter or FB (or Vine, or YikYak, or whatever the hell else is out there) and don’t give a rat’s ass what’s said about anyone by anyone on them. I also have a job and an adamantium self-image, so they can all take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut. I’ll KU it for $.99 when I’m done, and (if it’s okay with Larry) maybe mention it here if anyone’s interested.

sean
Guest

flying fuck at a rolling doughnut? First time I’ve heard THAT variation on flying fuck. lol

Murgy
Guest

Actually, no one should be subjected to this level of abuse, including Brad, Larry, Sarah, Dave, Amanda, John, Tom, or ANYONE ELSE!

The SJWs are celebrating tonight. Tomorrow, who will they turn on?

aacid
Guest

I am not sure if it is a matter of that though. This is the route the ruling clique uses because it works. They already seem to live in parallel universes as far as truth is concerned

Despair
Guest

Mr. Correia, I truly admire you and enjoy your work. However, recent events have convinced me that you and Mr. Torgersen are wrong. The hysterical reaction to science fiction fans buying memberships and participating in WorldCon has been eye opening; if these people hate Vox Day so much then they should stop making him look like a prophet. The Hugos deserve to burn.

AG
Guest

The Hugos do not deserve to burn. They deserve to continue sinking into irrelevance.

Chris
Guest

Funny thing about this whole new affair – the right is always being warned to “disassociate itself” from “extremists” and …. the left never seems to reciprocate. Either someone is “rehabilitated” after a number of years, or if they are so egregious as to be truly damaging, they’re sent down the memory hole.

But disavow their own scumbags? “Police themselves?” I’ve yet to EVER see it.

Nathaniel Givens
Guest
This is really sad, and I feel sorry for both authors. I’m also a little frustrated that SP has worked harder to distance itself from RP. I get the whole “I wont’ participate in the shunning” thing. I think it’s a little misguided, but I respect it. The fact is, SP can take actions to distance itself from RP and show good faith *without* attacking Vox Day. For example: I think in hindsight having 5 recommendations per category was pretty objectively a terrible idea because it created–unintentionally, I’m sure–a new exclusive. If you’re not on SP / RP, you didn’t… Read more »
Dr. Mauser
Guest

Unfortunately, your objection to SP3 is untrue. But it’s been repeated so often people don’t realize it. (The CHORF’s MIGHT be conscious of it, but they like to claim that SP3 was designed to monopolize the ballot.)

Out of 16 Hugo categories, SP3 had five nominations in only four of them. Novel, Short Story, Related Work and Fan Writer. The rest had four or three. Except Graphic story which had only one.

masterdude
Guest
Quite frankly, I don’t feel sorry for both authors. Maybe I feel a tiny bit sorry for Annie Bellet because it seems she just doesn’t have the stomach for the fight (but it’s a fight she and every SFF author wouldn’t be able to run away forever), but I don’t feel sorry for Marko Kloos because the reason he gave for rejecting the reward is ridiculous. Why is he giving a damn about Vox Day being an asshole if his work is good enough to be nominated? If you care about the “right” people praising your work then something is… Read more »
Frank Ney
Guest
Unfortunately, unless you’re signed with Baen the “right” people praising your work is the difference between eating and starving. And for the past few decades having the “right” people is contingent on toeing the SJW line and punching the correct SJW holes on your ticket, and God help you if you’re declare an unmutual. It was either Larry or Brad who told of his first experience as a Hugo nominee: “OMFG how did someone who owns a GUN STORE get in here???!!! UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN! STONE THE WARLOCK!” It wasn’t about the nominated work, it was all about the pig who… Read more »
Jack Blount
Guest

I just read the short from Annie Bellet and that was a very worthy story. She will be back on another date, I think that it is a shame that we can’t vote on this story.

SDN
Guest

The problem is that she won’t, unless they change the rules so Sad Puppies can’t even sign up to vote. Because any time we do, all the Good People will be told they must withdraw.

Book
Guest

That sucks. I hate that people have made this into anything other than getting good, quality stories on the ballot. Neither should have felt the need to withdraw.

So pissed off at everyone who’s made them feel this way. One thing’s for sure, the SP-haters can’t hide behind sanctimonious BS anymore. They’re so buried in hate they just had to throw this tempertantrum. They had to make it about race. Or politics. Or gender.

They HAD to ignore facts.

And they had to ignore the stories.

aacid
Guest

Oh they will. They will still put up the façade and I bet it will still work. Fear and shame are potent tools.

aacid
Guest

Much as I hate to admit it, the attacks are starting to make me think that the black flag has been raised. It was not by either Vox or Larry. Just fear that the campaign will reach scorched earth proportions and not go down.

KAX
Guest

Oh look, I just bought two Marko Kloos books and two Annie Bellet books.

bjlinden
Guest

I haven’t actually read any of Vox Day’s work yet, aside from a handful of posts on his blog, but this smarmy, insipid comment just inspired me to go purchase a couple. Good job!

David Lang
Guest

so does this give Vox a veto on any Hugo nominee? all he has to do is add them to his list and they must refuse the nomination to be ‘good people’

He is obnoxious enough to use this against the SJW types as well. If he were to put one of them on his slate, would they really refuse the nomination?

NKR
Guest

Yep. I fully expect to see him putting Scalzi on his slate next year.

While I’m seriously annoyed that VD copied the puppies, distracting from the whole issue, I do think he will make sure the SJ bullies regret intimidating people out of their just nominations.

Synova
Guest

Putting Scalzi on the RP slate next year would be delicious.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

To all the anti-Puppies out there: are you satisfied now? Are you happy that you shamed, threatened and intimidated people into withdrawing? Or will you continue your war of attrition until the ballot is cleansed of all heretics?

AG
Guest

Actually, incredible as it seems, they deny that they had anything to do with this, citing the writers’ messages that doesn’t say anything about the campaign of abuse.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

Yes, just like every confession signed in the Lubyanka was totally voluntary. Totally. It says so right there on the paper.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

I know there’s been a lot of pressure on folks behind the scenes. Can’t say more.

Alex
Guest

I hope Butcher holds out. I suspect he’s big enough and distant enough from the CHORF sphere of influence (great thing about them disdaining urban fantasy) that they couldn’t do much damage.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

I tweeted support for him.

I’m on fire on Twitter tonight. Laurell K Hamilton just got involved. She’s friends with Larry, so I’m assuming on the pro-Puppy side.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Me to Butcher:

“Christopher Chupik ‏@CChupik · 13h13 hours ago
@longshotauthor I just want to say that I hope you stand firm and don’t let the haters intimidate you.”

Butcher to me:

“Jim Butcher ‏@longshotauthor · 12h12 hours ago
@CChupik There are haters? :D”

🙂

Joshua
Guest

Of course they will. And they now have implacable foes who refuse to back down and be intimidated, so it’s going to be a massive game of Hugo chicken for a year or two now.

We’ll see what happens when it comes time to actually announce winners. If Puppy-slated works win, then the SJBullies will go away in tears impotent. If they don’t, then it’s going to be scorched earth next year.

rocinante2
Guest

Was Stalin satisfied? Mao? Pol Pot? Baron Harkonnen? Sauron?

SJWs may not be all alike in philosophy or goals, but they are all alike in their conformist social authoritarianism. The Millenials, especially. They’ve grown up with the web, and social media, so they’re bringing the herd mentality and the weapons of shunning and ostracism to every party.

All must be as they want, and all must be the same.

D White
Guest

At what point do you cut your losses and go home? If you fight until the place you’re fighting for is no longer fit for anyone, was it worth it?

Cargosquid
Guest

Yes….yes it is.

D White
Guest

Okay. But what happens? To the Victor goes the spoils, but what you get is destroyed.

Jeff Gauch
Guest
You’re taking the metaphor beyond crush depth. Assume SP totally achieves its goals, it completely drives the politically motivated out of fandom. In that case the Hugos are awarded to quality works. Even if media coverage is hostile, people will occasionally pick up Hugo-winning works, enjoy them, and recommend them to others. After a few years the rancor from the “Puppy Wars” will fade in memory, but the association of “Hugo=quality” will be reinforced year after year, returning the Hugos to the honor they once held (and once again attracting the SJW’s who seek to hide their ugly ideology behind… Read more »
D White
Guest

I guess I had the quick fix in mind! Wouldn’t be worth having if it was easy!

Viidad
Guest

The Hugos already sucked. We’re working on rehabilitation. RP/SP FTW

I am Worldcon now.

Blume
Guest

Ask the Russians if the sorched earth was worth beating Hitler and Napoleon.

Joshua
Guest

This is also stupid. The Hugos are not Russia and the SJWs are not bravely defending their home.

THE PUPPIES are the Russians in this analogy. The SJWs are the invaders. Just because they’ve had the run of the place for years now doesn’t mean that they belong there.

Joshua
Guest

Although… on re-reading your post, it looks like that may have been what you meant after all anyway. If so… my bad.

Alex
Guest

If it’s no longer fit for anyone, burning the ruins to the ground and salting the earth isn’t a bad plan.

Joking. Mostly.

Cataline Sergius
Guest

A question. At this date, can they withdraw from the ballot?

I can’t seem to find a definitive rule on this matter.

Nathan
Guest

I’m sure they can. The big question is can they be replaced or is that slot on the ballot “dead”?

AG
Guest

Nathan’s right. They can withdraw now. The precedents apparently say that they will not be substituted at this stage, but after so many strange things who knows.

Jack
Guest

For what it’s worth, I thought “Terms of Enlistment” was great. The other books not so much.

Tim McDonald
Guest

I already gave up. Let the Hugo’s remain what they became around 1985. An indication of shoddy stories with all the right messages, unreadable and unworthy of being purchased; a mark of shame telling us which books not to bother with.

JustAGuyOnTheWeb
Guest

Here’s the problem, a lot of people including myself, didn’t know how broken the Hugos are/were.

I’d rather see it labeled as the award for best SFF as determined by InclusionCon than purport to represent that which is best in SFF. You shouldn’t be able to have it both ways, and they did for a long time. Now the problem is being addressed one way or the other.

Either it’s their award, or it belongs to us all. It can no longer be both.

Martin L. Shoemaker
Guest

Annie Bellet writes damn fine fiction. Her collection “Dusk and Shiver” is hands down my favorite book of this millennium. Her nominated story was on that same level. And no assholes are going to take that away.

Doug Wardell
Guest

As one of the folks who voted the RP slate, I’m sad to see this. I’d looked forward to reading Kloos specifically because I’ve seen Vox recommend his works several times. If Mr. Kloos doesn’t want to take the heat and feels the need to withdraw, fine. That FB statement frankly pisses me the hell off though. He’s definitely moved way down my reading list.

Peter O
Guest

Well FUCK.
You voted for them without reading, because of VD’s endorsement? Way to prove the SJWs right asshole. SP was all about promoting authors to read and vote on, but Fuck You.

Hey Larry. Think we can get the Hugo’s group to Strip out straight RPs Slates?

Doug Wardell
Guest
Are you suggesting that you thought everyone who voted the Sad Puppies slate read every work they nominated? If so, I think you’re naive. If Brad or Larry suggested people only nominate works they’ve read, I missed it. The fact is, I read every entry in each fiction category last year which was included in the voter packet (luckily, I’d already read Wheel of Time). So while it’s true that I don’t know for sure that Kloos’s work is better than everything non-SP in there last year, I think it’s a safe bet since I know from experience that my… Read more »
Julie Frost
Guest

…actually, they DID suggest that people only nominate works they’d read.

More than once.

Doug Wardell
Guest
Well as I said, if that’s so then I missed it. It happens. Vox certainly recommended taking his whole slate as is, and I agree with that. To quote Larry directly, “…you can usually guess who all of the finalists are going to be that year before any of the books have actually come out or been read by anyone, entirely by how popular the author is with this tiny group.” At worst, RP nominated similarly to past nominating bodies based on popularity with SP/RP instead of SJW Worldcon voters, so it seems disingenuous to act like RP is somehow… Read more »
Book
Guest

Yup. AND it was stated- OFTEN- that if we knew of an author we liked better, we were welcome to nominate them instead- and/or give them a shout-out in the comments of the post. If you go back to those old posts, there are a LOT of shout outs.

Book
Guest

That last comment was addressed to Julie, BTW. Sorry for confusion.

keranih
Guest

Doug –

What you did was wrong. You should not have nominated anything you hadn’t read. And you shouldn’t have taken anyone else’s word for how good a work was.

I do respect your willingness to own up to this mistake.

Peter O
Guest
Did you not notice any of the Book bombs that Larry and Brad were Promoting? Did you think they just did those for giggles? “As noted earlier in the year, the SAD PUPPIES 3 list is a recommendation. Not an absolute. ” https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/02/01/sad-puppies-3-the-2015-hugo-slate/ Plus all the amazon links next to the names. I looked on VD’s blog, and I see that he did recommend straight voting. So maybe that is why you are confused. But the Sad Puppies effort was all about spotlighting nominees and saying “If you agree with our slate below…” i.e. because you read them and agree… Read more »
Blume
Guest

I voted the Kloos one with out reading too. I had read terms of enlistment and thought it pretty good and I wanted at least one book in the hugo packet that I hadn’t already bought and read. I bought and read every other book bomb leading up to the nominations.

Daveon
Guest

Please tell me you didn’t really just say ‘I liked the first book, and wanted the second free’?

I didn’t like it but I bloody well bought it.

sean
Guest
“Are you suggesting that you thought everyone who voted the Sad Puppies slate read every work they nominated? If so, I think you’re naive. If Brad or Larry suggested people only nominate works they’ve read, I missed it.” *headdesk, headdesk, headdesk* Oh for fuck sake. They’ve both said REPEATEDLY hnot to take their word for it, READ THE FUCKING BOOKS and nominate as you see fit or suggest your own.Hell so have any number of the rest of us who’ve been commenting on the brouhaha in support of the puppies. Sigh someone get me a couple advil and a bourbon.
Andrew
Guest

Occasionally, I wonder why some people are vile, hateful or just plain malevolent. Then I remember:

It works.

Lea
Guest

Seriously. This news was damned depression but I can’t make other people put up with all the bikes slander and pressure possibly from friends.

I’m pissed that vox day borrowed so many from the sp
Slate instead of just coming up with his own stuff.

Lea
Guest

Ok what the hell did auto correct do to my words? Sorry guys, I should know better than to post on my phone.

Joshua
Guest

Because it’s UNTHINKABLE to ponder the notion that he might actually have enjoyed some of the same books as Brad, and for the same reason?

Lea
Guest

Because it’s UNTHINKABLE to ponder the notion that he might actually have enjoyed some of the same books as Brad, and for the same reason?

He named his slate ‘rabid’ puppies.

He used a good portion of the same slate. What were the overlap numbers? More than could be accounted for by chace, I think.

I wish Vox had done more to differentiate himself.

Darius
Guest
Well – if the point was to nominate the BEST works regardless of political message, then “differentiating himself” would mean not promoting things he saw as the best works…. thus making him a hypocrite. OR you think he doesn’t actually think those books and stories are among the best available and has malign intent in picking many of the same stories. So either he’s a hypocritical liar promoting inferior books to make everything burn down, or you want him to BE a hypocritical liar and not promote what he believes is best to spare your feelings. I’ll give you one… Read more »
Joshua
Guest

It makes no difference at all whatsoever what he would have named it or how much differentiation he had attempted. That’s completely beside the point. The Hugo gatekeepers and SJWs are completely incapable of seeing anything beyond their bubble as anything other than “not us.”

Lea
Guest
you want him to BE a hypocritical liar and not promote what he believes is best to spare your feelings. I don’t want him to be anything, but his goals for this whole thing were different. He conflated the two slates, long before the others jumped in and did in national print. And he clearly picked some similar works in an effort to sweep the field if possible. Which is why he said this: They are my recommendations for the 2015 nominations, and I encourage those who value my opinion on matters related to science fiction and fantasy to nominate… Read more »
Arwen
Guest

Wow, just when I think my disgust with the social justice bullies can’t be any greater. That’s too bad for both Marko and Annie.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

You’re not alone in your disgust, I assure you.

Joshua
Guest

With every move the SJWs lose more ground. They have no idea–because they’re so used to living in their stupid little bubble–what their antics are doing to everyone else around them.

Also, because they don’t actually understand how people think. The r/K theory suddenly opened my eyes to why I couldn’t make any sense out of rabbit behavior, and how I see it in reverse; rabbits can’t make any sense out of people behavior. So they are destroying themselves without even knowing it.

htom
Guest

And NOW I’m tempted to spend my $40 just so I can vote for Noah Ward at the top of each category, regardless of quality. The way to stand up to bullies is to stand up and bite, not lick!

Julie Frost
Guest

… who are the bullies, though?

The best way to stand up to the bullies is to nominate and vote for the best stories you can find. And to encourage everyone else to do the same.

Period.

Lea
Guest

The best way to stand up to the bullies is to nominate and vote for the best stories you can find. And to encourage everyone else to do the same.

And how well will that work if everyone is just driven off the ballot by bullying? I cannot make other people have the fortitude to stand up for themselves in the face of such harsh treatment.

If the best writers are driven off the ballot by bullying, then we will have the same broken system.

rocinante2
Guest

Is the best way to stand up to bullies a firm, “No, I will not play your game“?

Or is the the best way to stand up to bullies to punch back twice as hard.

My teachers (and the ABC Afterschool Special) taught me the former, and I believed. The reality of daily life in public school, and in the big city, taught me different.

I wish I’d read Ender’s Game when I was 8 years old, instead of 21, My life would have been very different 🙂

Darius
Guest

Well – it’s a continuum.

Once you prove that you’re willing to be a hard target and “Punch back twice as hard” – then “I’m not willing to play” is enough most of the time after that.

Sometimes before – but rarely. Bullies are pretty good at picking out people who aren’t inclined to punch, and so will mistake “leave me alone” as “we can keep messing with him”

JSchuler
Guest
Keep in mind that we are only in year three of Sad Puppies. And the first two don’t count, as that was Larry trying to prove a point, not to effect change. This is but the first major battle, and both the SP and RP have scored devastating hits on the opposition. Just because it is not a flawless victory is not a reason to reach for the nuclear option. Let it continue. Stick with LC’s strategy if that is what you came in with, because nothing so far has undermined it. Me? I’m a fence sitter between saving the… Read more »
Joshua
Guest

Bingo! Perfectly said!

J. C. Salomon
Guest

On File 770 there is an open question whether they will be replaced on the ballot. If they are, and if (as with the replacements for ineligibility) the Hugo admins update the “most nominations/fewest nominations” numbers, some further indication should be available regarding the actual impact of the RP slate.

Adrienne Foster
Guest

The withdrawn nominees will be replaced with the next in line of their categories, providing they received the required 5% of the nominations. It will take a day or so for Sasquan to make the announcement.

Michael ball
Guest

Larry I want to thank you for the last few days of fun. I know you are taking a lot of flack for this, but I’ve not had this much fun in a long time. I am honered to be a fan of the king of hate. It’s amazing how mad people get when you pull the curtain back and expose the truth.

Wes S.
Guest
Well, that sucks. I suppose that Jim Butcher will get my “Best Novel” vote by default. Unless he gets bullied into withdrawing, too. Larry refused his Hugo nomination because he didn’t want to make the 2015 Hugos all about him. How well did that work out? And who will say “Screw it” and pull out next? The hell of it is: It’s a short-term “victory” for the Flaming Rage-Nozzles of Tolerance that in the long run is only going to strengthen the position of Vox and everybody else who’s ready to just burn the Hugos to the frickin’ ground. Hell,… Read more »
Synova
Guest

Bottom line… he *can’t* burn it down without their willing and enthusiastic participation.

Looks like they’re right on board the Vox train shoveling coal.

SumDood
Guest
Does Amazon tell authors when someone has their books wishlisted? And, does it also tell them when someone deletes one of the author’s books from their wishlist? If so, Mr. Kloos will be sad. Giving in to terrorist demands is never the smart option. Letting bullies push you around and make your choices for you is idiotic. I cannot reward such behavior, let alone condone it. Kloos made a choice to throw his support behind cretins like Requires Hate and the Neilsen-Haydens, and child molesters like MZ Bradley and Ed Kramer. If Vox Day is a “shitbag of the first… Read more »
perlhaqr
Guest

I’m not Marko, but I can assure you that it’s perfectly possible to think that Vox Day and Nora Jemisin are both assholes. “Requires Hate” is apparently a psychopath, and the Neilsen-Haydens are scrofulent SJW trolls of the first order.

There are many different flavors of shitbag in the world.

trackback

[…] Correia comments here. Vox Day comments […]

David Ditsch
Guest

The SJW might believe that this is a win for their side. It ‘s not. It is a win for Vox Day. Every act like this just empowers him more.

Daveon
Guest

It’s been heads I win, tails you lose, for Beale since this started…

Rockin Ray
Guest

i don’t know either of these authors but I do respect their decisions. For the people banging on them b4hand and getting involved in a war (and that’s what it is now, unfortunately) without knowing is not something to deal with lightly. I’ll try to find some of their works.

I barely know of Vox Day outside of he seems to be a cantankerous blog writer, and it’s really a shame that he picked a name so close to the Sad Puppies.

One last add: I was disappointed in too many of the Marko blog commenters 🙁

serial_killer_in_a_prius
Guest
serial_killer_in_a_prius
I confess a little puzzled by this. They withdrew because someone they [disagree with / disgusts them / they hate] actually likes their work ? Does this mean that because the Nazi’s stole great works of art (which would seem to indicate that they liked it) that the artworks is unworthy of praise, recognition, or acclaim ? I can see that acclaim by someone you disagree with means less than compliments from someone you like/admire/respect. But wouldn’t it seem that since they (Vox in this case) put your name on the ballot, it probably wasn’t because of your politics, or… Read more »
vnehringviktor
Guest

Annie felt like she was a ball getting kicked. Well, who is doing the kicking?

Doctor Locketopus
Guest

Yes. One side nominates you for an award. The other one subjects you to torrents of online abuse.

Which one is actually your friend?

Slime
Guest

The real question is: What side has already bought your books, and what side will buy your books the moment you bow down to them?

Wes S.
Guest

…And *quit* buying your books the instant you aren’t useful to them anymore…

Alex
Guest

Yeah, I doubt that when she talks about hating to open her email, she was getting abuse from any Puppies.

keranih
Guest

Two days on, I think it’s possible that she was fairly put out with the retoric from the SP side, flavored as it was by povs that she didn’t agree with. (As is her right.)

Had she been defended by those she agreed with, and attacked by those she did not, it might have been easier to stand firm. The situation she was in deeply sucked.

Pogonip
Guest
Hi Larry, I’m not much of a science fiction reader so I ain’t got a dog in this fight. I read your site because it’s fun. As a mildly interested outsider. I do feel you’ve proved your point that the Hugos are politicized, mostly in the office-politics rather than the DC-politics way. But i also don’t think you can win your battle now because it’s becoming mostly about Vox Day. Have you considered shifting strategies and setting up your OWN awards? Then your strategy can be about making your awards cooler than the Hugos. You can leave them to the… Read more »
Andrew
Guest
A couple of observations: “But i also don’t think you can win your battle now because it’s becoming mostly about Vox Day.” This is part of the “personalize” stage of discrediting a movement or idea. You select a person who is both A: an advocate of the idea you oppose, and B: vile in some way. SP’s ideas are bad because of Vox Day in the same way vegetarians are evil because of Hitler. I don’t recommend accepting either propositions. Conceding defeat “because Vox Day” is effectively accepting the proposition. As for why one would rather see the Hugo’s represent… Read more »
ThirteenthLetter
Guest

If tomorrow Vox Day evaporated from the face of the Earth, the social justice warriors would simply cut ‘n’ paste the next target on their list. There isn’t any winning this game.

Randy M
Guest

Exactly. If they got Larry or Brad to denounce every single person to their right, guess what? Larry and Brad would then be the most extreme, and next on the list.

viktor
Guest

Yes. It’s just pushing the guy in front of you off of the plank. Sooner or later it’s your turn.

(I’m the same as vnehringviktor. I can’t figure this thing out.)

James May
Guest

I agree. What’s being forgotten is that this is all about being straight, white, and heterosexual. In a very real sense intersectional feminism see us all as Vox Day.

We are at best racially privileged, rape apologists. and an oppression of the cisnormative.

On the other hand SJWs see themselves as Freedom Riders. Unfortunately they missed that bus by a half century and caught the next one that came along – the KKK one.

Dan Kauffman
Guest

But you can lose it.,

Unilateral surrender will do very well for that

Viidad
Guest

Pathetic. The SJWs want us to turn on our allies. That’s why they keep winning.

Emily Nelson
Guest

What is happening is pretty damned awful. Not as awful as someone dying, but more awful than anything else.

I used to be a regular WorldCon attendee. I even worked at LunaCon. This harassment of authors and guilt by association makes me feel like someone took a dump all over a place I used to visit.

Craig
Guest

I’ve done Con stuff before. I like Cons. I like people. I’ve been convinced this year that I never want to go to a WorldCon.

Herb
Guest

Never been but it’s been kind of like Pennsic, something on the geeky bucket list.

Pennsic is still on there…WorldCon, not so much.

Pogonip
Guest

P.s. I also read your discussion with George R.R. Martin–it was the last Sad Puppy thing I read before I decided it was getting too complicated for me. Mr. Martin sounds like a nice man, but I gotta say: Man, that dude has raised procrastination to a (bleep) ing art form. All that about Hugos when he could have been writing about Westeros. Shame on him.

Richard McEnroe
Guest
I’m sorry, Larry but I won’t be checking out their works. Anyone lacking the moral courage to stand up to this kind of Harper Valley PTA backbiting probably lacks the artistic integrity to write anything memorable. I’m no big fan of Vox Day, per se. In may ways he reminds me too much of Arthur Chu, or many MENSAns I’ve met who were too smart to ever listen to a different idea than their own. But I have never done anything to crowd anyone out of the marketplace of ideas except to decide for myself who gets my money and… Read more »
Julie Frost
Guest

Are you kidding me? You have no idea what sort of shit these people have been put through as a result of this, and not everyone has the intestinal fortitude or the mental health or the spoons, for that matter, to deal with the vitriol.

Annie’s story is really, really good, and she herself is lovely and didn’t deserve the hate blasted her way.

Book
Guest

I keep hearing it was good. Her story was one of the reasons I bought a voting membership this year. I was really looking forward to reading it.

Guess I have to hunt it down the old fashioned way. 🙁

Shadowdancer
Guest

i think someone posted a link to it amongst the first comments in here.

Lea
Guest
not everyone has the intestinal fortitude or the mental health or the spoons, for that matter, to deal with the vitriol. Indeed. I’m a bit of contrarian, and as a conservative used to bouncing off and ignoring these kinds of attacks. But they usually aren’t personal, because in person I am pretty nice. And used to talking around liberals and leaving them alone when I don’t want to deal with their nonsense. But I feel really, really sorry for Annie because she’s probably not used to this at all and it’s got to be daunting. Being a writer, I’m sure… Read more »
Reziac
Guest

Remember who gets the last laugh in Harper Valley PTA…

unsafeideas
Guest

You are still punishing wrong people. These agreed to be on sad puppies, but had to step down. They still shown more courage then those who would turn sad puppies down in the first place due to fear.

Reziac
Guest

See, there’s the very problem. Does anyone here deserve to be punished?

No. No one.

Richard McEnroe
Guest

“All that about Hugos when he could have been writing about Westeros.”

Larry may have done the world of letters a double service.

PavePusher
Guest

LMAO!!!

Thus far, I’ve enjoyed the GoT series, but if the plot doesn’t start getting somewhere in the next book….

Jebus, Weber does long, wordy and info-dumping like almost no other, but it’s obvious that he’s Going Somewhere With It(tm). Martin needs to figure that out.

sean
Guest

I said much the same thing about GRRM. not the shame of course…just shut the hell up and write because your wasting time. HELL didn’t he admit in an interview that the tv series will be finished before the next book comes out? seriously?

Achilles
Guest

I get that Bellett and Kloos were under extreme pressure. But I’ve only got so many dollars and I’m not going to waste them on writers who capitulate to the SJW crowd. This is war, there is no middle ground, and they chose a side. And it’s the side that consider us wrongfans.

Viidad
Guest

I completely agree. They will not get my dollars either.

Fossegrimen
Guest

I’m not on board with that really. Why should I deny myself a good read because of the actions of the writer? It’s just the reverse of reading only boring message fic by translesbian multicolored people because they are.

I got only one criteria for buying/not buying a book:

Do I think it is a good book?

I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone would want to choose differently.

EuroCommie666
Guest
“This is war, there is no middle ground, and they chose a side. And it’s the side that consider us wrongfans.” What a terrible attitude to take when reading books. I’m probably not a typical guest on this site as I’m a leftist, European, feminist, and probably everything else considered anathema in here… But I enjoy books despite their ideology or their writers ideology. I have a cherished copy of ‘Tarzan at The Earth’s Core’, rows piles of Baen MilSF in my shelf next to Banks and MacLeod. I often see the so called SJW crowd accused of ideological censorship… Read more »
rocinante2
Guest

In other words, it’s OK when they do it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Achilles
Guest
I’m not opposed to them because of their ideology. I’m opposed to them because of their actions. If Kloos had written saying he opposed everything Vox believed, loved Stalin, but wasn’t going to withdraw I’d be fine with reading his work. Instead he attacked Vox. He attacked his fans. And then he surrendered. And he did it in a petulant manner. We keep being told that we shouldn’t judge Bellet and Kloos too harshly. But Larry and Brad are facing 20 times the crapstorm. And they’re not backing down. That takes big brass ones. I’d rather spend my hard-earned money… Read more »
PavePusher
Guest

He’s apparently posted an apology/clarification. Check it out, it might change your opinion. Or not.

Lea
Guest

This is war, there is no middle ground

They didn’t enlist in a war. They just want to write things. This isn’t their fault.

suburbanbanshee
Guest

Blaming the POWs for being tortured? Not a good plan.

Achillea
Guest

‘Not a good plan.’

Am I the only one who read that in Tony Stark’s voice?

Brodder
Guest

So this apropos now?comment image

Suburbanbanshee
Guest
The safest area in my school was the stairwell where the druggies, hoods, and drug dealers hung out. None of our interests aligned, nor did I do business with them. However, the dangerous people were afraid to do bodily harm on me there. I respected those folks as human beings. I also respected the people in remedial and low level classes, because they were generally friendly and helpful. Many of my gamer friends had been wrongly placed in such classes because of learning disabilities or bad luck, too. As for those in the Honors classes with me, they wanted to… Read more »
Jeff Gauch
Guest

I learned early on that the popular kids weren’t a threat. They were always quite friendly and personable (probably a large reason why they were popular). The threat came from those kids who wanted to be *seen* as popular. They didn’t have social capital of their own, so they raised their relative position by pushing others down.

Suburbanbanshee
Guest
Agreed! At worst, the popular kids are just too busy to notice what’s going on; at best, they will try to do something to help; but in general, they are reasonably okay. My junior high and high school were both big, though, and the popular kids weren’t really in any classes I had. (None of them were taking Honors, either.) The only popular kid I knew well was in my senior year when I got to know our senior class president, because we were both conservatives and both took the same civics/government class. He was a happy warrior par excellence.… Read more »
Suburbanbanshee
Guest

(Of course, by one’s senior year in high school, one’s enemies are usually no longer trying to kill one, because they have usually grown up a tad. Drama from one’s friends usually makes up for this.)

rocinante2
Guest

Brilliant.

So much of the anti-Puppy behavior reminds me of high school.

Look at people like the Neilsen-Haydens, Hines, and Scalzi. Think about who they were in high school.

They (think) they’ve made this little world their own; (they think) they’re the “cool kids” here. And they will be damned if they’ll let anybody they don’t like into their club.

Woody Allen (hawk, spit) was right about at least one thing.

David, internet troll
Guest
If you are not a troll, then I apologize for the tone of the following, but we get an awful lot of concern trolls (a particularly nasty breed that reflects badly on we aristocratic and well-groomed internet trolls) around here that give mild support to Larry then ask him about Vox Day. The conversation usually goes something like this: CT: You know, Larry, I kind of like what you are doing with Sad Puppies. Larry: Thanks. CT: The only problem is that Vox Day fellow. If only you weren’t involved with him. Larry: He has nothing to do with Sad… Read more »
Pogonip
Guest

In that case, dispense with the sign, call the award the Vox instead of the Larry, and watch hilarity ensue!

I think if i were a professional writer, I’d be mainly interested in the award you take to the bank. That’s why i thought a good strategy might be to tie the Larry/Vox/Whatever-it’s-called to a coveted demographic , if you can.

Joshua
Guest

Why all this talk of “starting our own awards?” Neither Vox nor Larry are community organizers. Why would they get into the business of starting up awards?

Also; why should they? The SJWs don’t own the Hugos. They’ve just been squatting on them since about the 80s. But what do you do with squatters when you’ve had enough to them? You throw them out and reclaim what already belongs to you.

James May
Guest

Let’s start an award dedicated to the best expressions of racial and sexual supremacist doctrines. It would be identical to last year’s Hugo and Nebula winners so it might be a bit redundant.

#DitchYourRacists

Darius
Guest
“but I get bloody sick of the “guilt by association” game, when James May can literally whistle up 100 people whose opinions and statements are every bit as toxic, every bit as objectionable, and every bit as fringe as Vox’s, but on the other side. But, those people get a pass.” Worse – they’re not fringe. They’re held by people lauded by the main power brokers and in the mainstream media. Fifteen years ago the “Vagina Monologues” were radical feminist, the year some colleges are banning it for not being inclusive enough . Look at Sarkeesan’s videos re: Feminist Frequency.… Read more »
Patrick Chester
Guest

And the whole Vox Day thing is bullshit anyway. Vox is a bogeyman to the SJWs. He lives in their heads, he lives under their beds, he is the WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD!

For the moment.

I wonder if Orwell was being an optimist when he came up with the Two Minute Hate. Sometimes it seems like the SJWs run out of breath and have to stop hating for a couple minutes until they recover.

Slime
Guest

Yeah, let’s not pretend this was anything but authors getting bullied and harassed because they were nominated by the wrong fans, and then deciding to shit all over those fans in favor of the people who had victimized them in the hopes of getting sales.

Jeck
Guest

It’s easy to be brave when you’re an anonymous troll.

You deserve a medal for your armchair heroism.

Viidad
Guest

I think you called it there.

KMarks
Guest

For those of you huffing and puffing over how much you hate and despise Vox Day, have the decency to mitigate your ignorance by reading the interview of Vox day by John Brown, who does have the decency to examine the man’s actual words and positions. Vox Day is refreshing in a world dominated by SJW scum. Brown’s interview and article is at http://www.johndbrown.com/what-vox-day-believes/. Pay particular attention to the comments after the piece.

Cataline Sergius
Guest

I get it. Kloos was signing up for last year’s level of drama, not this Turdnado. And it’s all going to be a lot harder on a lefty.

This was the down side of the politically diverse slate.

On the other hand

“I’m pulling out of the Hugo process solely because Vox Day also included me on his “Rabid Puppies” slate.”

It took him days to find about that?

Credit where it’s due. Annie handled it better.

Achillea
Guest

‘Turdnado.’ Mind if I steal that? It so perfectly encapsulates SJW behavior.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

I’m not mad at Kloos and Bellet. I’m mad at the people who have threatened and intimidated the people on the ballot since the beginning. I’m mad at the people celebrating this sickening “victory” right now.

Don’t like the Hugo ballot? Rage and threaten until you get your way!

Synova
Guest

And then tell yourself how GOOD you are.

Patrick Chester
Guest

I keep running into a depressing amount of people proudly proclaim they were “intolerant towards intolerance” or “bigoted towards bigots” and that it’s okay to “hate haters” and such.

Which just makes them hate-filled, intolerant and bigoted people making excuses to justify their behavior.

Lea
Guest
The problem with hatred is as much what it does to you inside as what it does to other people. Hatred twists you. Hatred is a bad thing, no matter who it is directed towards. If someone does something you don’t like, don’t associate with them, or don’t buy their stuff, or don’t be best friends with them. But don’t sit around dwelling on how much you hate them because it just twists you up into terrible person. That is what has happened to these people. They have hated and hated so long they are now ugly, rotten, twisted things.… Read more »
Book
Guest
I’m not mad, either. And I’m not surprised- actually. I expected it would happen. What does confuse me is why an author who cares this much about what Vox thinks of him, didn’t pull out when he was put on Vox’s slate. Or he could have declined the nomination when he got the call. Maybe he didn’t notice until today or something, I’m not sure. But that’s just confusion. I’m mostly frustrated that this is being used by the anti-sad puppy crowd as a weapon against the other authors on the slate. And the message from the antis is clear:… Read more »
trackback

[…] Well, this sucks. – April 14 […]

NMM1AFan
Guest

So the authors are upset that someone they think is a jerk liked their books.

They need to get over that if they want to sell books.

Julie Frost
Guest

No, they’re upset that they came in for horrific abuse because one of the Unclean (whom they had no control over) liked their books.

chuck
Guest
What a shame, I was looking forward to reading both authors to see if they should go on my buy list. I can’t quite put my finger on why, but somehow this feels like a win for VD. He revels in the role of Lord of Chaos, and here his magical affect is still collapsing the towers of Hugo town one by one. I also wonder if they Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day. I haven’t given any weight to the Hugos… Read more »
Book
Guest
Actually, you’re exactly right, if only because it proves that Vox’s opinion matters more than any other fan’s opinion. I hate that this has been made political. I understand Bellet is socialist (or did I hear that wrong?) and that Kloos is… well I don’t know what he is. And I don’t really care. I also don’t care if Vox likes either one of these authors or not. Just like I don’t care which authors Jim Hines or Mary R Kowal like. I refuse to vote for someone just because someone else likes them… The flip side to that is… Read more »
Achillea
Guest

I understand Bellet is socialist (or did I hear that wrong?)

Bellet is so far to the left, she makes Obama look like Limbaugh. Hillary Clinton is too right wing for her — she actually idolizes Fauxcahontas.

Book
Guest

Ah. Ok. Well, regardless, I have heard a lot of good things about her work and I guess I’ll have to hunt it down the old fashioned way now to read it. (I didn’t nominate her- didn’t buy my membership until after the nominees were announced.)

Eric McLaughlin
Guest
I don’t know enough about Bellet to form an opinion, but I bought four of Marko Kloos books. It’s blindingly obvious he’s a leftist, and his work suffers for it when he can’t keep his politics in check. So I am not surprised at his decision or his vitriol at Vox. I’m only surprised he was on the slate at all. “…the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire, And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire…” As an author, he’s been hit or miss with me, Lucky Thirteen was great,… Read more »
Peter O
Guest

Kloos. Leftist. Hahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha.

Well, I got my humor for the day.

Eric McLaughlin
Guest

Eh, hyperbole. I was justifiably pissed.

And traumatized. Scroll down.

Tam
Guest

I was justifiably pissed.

And traumatized.

…and not very smart.

zuk
Guest

Not the first time someone has called Marko leftist. I’ve read all his stuff. Is there something I’m not seeing?

Just ’cause it’s milfic doesn’t mean he’s not, and I often miss the spectrum markers if the story is good enough.

Which elements mark him as left or right?

zuk

zuk
Guest

@larry, that’s what I mean, I never thought that but I’ve heard it at various times. I wondered if I was missing something (not that it would matter, I still like his writing.)

zuk

Clint
Guest
Sorry to see this. Heck — I just wanted a pointer to some damn good reads. Wasn’t that what the Hugos were supposed to be about? So — thanks for the pointers to some good books I hadn’t heard about. Perhaps next year, I’ll just look for the Sad Puppies 4 slate and ignore who actually gets/accepts a nomination. Terms of Enlistment is next on my reading list, and this isn’t going to change that. This is definitely a setback for anyone who thinks the Hugo nominees should represent the best reads of the year. FWIW, just finished Goblin Emperor.… Read more »
Marko Kloos
Guest

On reflection: I apologize to Vox Day for calling him a shitbag. I loathe his politics and race diatribes, disagree with his theology, and have absolutely nothing in common with him philosophically, but there’s no reason to get uncivil and resort to name-calling.

guitar man
Guest

And yet, he endorsed your book based on the story, not your politics. As did many of the RP followers. Was his point not proven by your withdrawal?

chuck
Guest

You should probably say so on VD’s blog. In an age of dueling, Vox gets to play Andrew Jackson. A little civility goes a long ways…

Herb
Guest

Is this the only place you’re publishing this apology or are you man enough to put it all the places you called him a shitbag?

One is damage control and one is an honest apology.

Marko Kloos
Guest

I posted it here and on the original Facebook page that Larry quoted. Not that it ought to be any of your concern.

Eric McLaughlin
Guest

And there went any lingering respect I might have had. Now I really find it suspicious that you just found out at this late date that you were on the RP slate.

Still, out of a shred of pity, I will point out you’ve done a pretty good job of pissing off one side and not enough to cozy up to the other. Standing in the middle of the road just gets you run over, and it’s too late to be a bystander. That ship sailed as soon as you accepted a slot. Did you learn nothing from SP1 and 2?

bjlinden
Guest

I don’t really get why people keep saying that Kloos should have known he was on the Rabid Puppies slate. Obviously he knew Rabid Puppies existed, but if he doesn’t actually follow Vox’s blog, how would he know if he was on it or not? And he knew he was on Sad Puppies, so it would be logical for him to assume that’s the only place the nomination came from.

Hell, I’ve been following Vox’s blog during this whole debacle, and *I* don’t even know for sure what’s on the Rabid Puppies slate!

perlhaqr
Guest

I was wondering if it was possible to concern troll from the other side.

Looks like it is.

rocinante2
Guest
Cut Marko a little slack. One of his dogs (the special one) died shortly before the Hugo noms were announced. (It’s on his blog.) I can only speak for myself, but I was devastated when my best friend and constant companion of 13 years died. Maybe Marko had other things on his mind and it took him a little while to come up for air, and then a little while to think about what must have been a difficult decision. Hell, I was going to vote for him. Now I have to pick someone else, but I can’t find it… Read more »
Doug Wardell
Guest

Good on you for walking that back. It’s fine not to like him, but your original statement went way too far in my opinion. I would also second the idea that you post this anywhere you posted the original comments, but frankly I’m so taken aback to a see a non-conservative apologize to a conservative for any reason that I’ll take what I can get lol.

Doug Wardell
Guest

Nevermind the last bit, I see you already did. Again, hat tip for being a stand-up guy about it.

Peter
Guest
Too little, too late, Mr. Kloos. Do you honestly think that the folks with whom you’ve allied yourself are going to overlook the way you “glorify militarism” or that you’re a “cis-het white male” and nominate you for another Hugo? This might have been your best chance to be known forevermore as a Hugo Award winner, and you threw it away. And who knows what Vox will be doing in that time frame? Editing and game design might well remove him from the involvement in SFF he’s doing now. As a fellow gunnie and a fan of Tam’s, I was… Read more »
Karen Miller
Guest

Everything else aside, Marko, I am so sorry you felt obliged to take this step. I was very much looking forward to reading your nominated work. All the best going forward!

Malcolm the Cynic
Guest

Vox recommended you for a Hugo award, though your theology, politics, and philosophy differ. The nerve of that man.

You’re right that it’s none of our concern…except for the fact that you made a very public announcement announcing to all and sundry that he was a shitbag. If you’re going to back up on that it’s a perfectly legitimate question to ask whether or not you’re attempting damage control or if you actually intend to make your apology as public as your insult.

You made this bed, and you get to lie in it.

Joe in PNG
Guest

Stone the Wrongthink Wrongfan!!! How dare he not love Vox!!! Crimethink must be stopped!!

Joshua
Guest

Stupid. Quit projecting SJW rabbit motivations on people, and vice versa.

Joe in PNG
Guest

Hey, I’m just calling a spade a spade. If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, and sounds like a Stalinist ritualistic denunciation of a Trotskyite… well, I’m going to call people out on it. When post start looking like someone is running “The Best of Clamps” with Marko swapped for Vox, I would like to remind people that It Is Not Okay When We Do It.

Malcolm the Cynic
Guest

I don’t give two shits and a half if he hates Vox Day and all he stands for.

James May
Guest

I disagree. I have no problem calling someone a shitbag over racial diatribes. My issue is in creating a shitbag strikezone. If we have 1,200 different umpires with 1,200 different rules, it’s not going to turn out well.

I give you the current Hugo debacle. That didn’t come out of nowhere. It came out of arguing with the umpire…

…for 3 years.

The game is still suspended.

Some people insist on fair play. Insist as in INSIST – as in INALIENABLE.

Some people don’t have such a heightened sense of fair play. Do what you have to do. That is also an inalienable right.

Stephen J.
Guest

Well said, sir.

I’m sorry you felt you had to withdraw and disagree with that decision — the problem with having fans of any number is that inevitably you will disagree with them about something other than what you think is a good story — but I wish you the best of luck in future endeavours.

Lea
Guest

Nice to hear (not that I give a shit about Vox Day, but my first impression of you was your withdrawl and that’s probably not ideal).

I think if everyone could learn to be a bit more civil the world would be a better place. Maybe I’m tilting at windmills.

keranih
Guest

This was good of you.

I deeply regret the crap you’ve gotten. Best of luck on the rest of your writing this year.

Josh
Guest

The real interesting thing would be to know if certain members of certain publishing houses were contacting these two authors behind the scenes. If so I am guessing we will never know the details of those conversations.

Max Florschutz
Guest

Meanwhile, while Marko may have made that post clear, I notice that it seems to be getting ignored or overlooked, at least in some circles *cough* GRRM’s blog *cough.*

This whole thing is getting ridiculous. It’s starting more and more to resemble a pre-school fight. The insular SJW group is digging in and refusing to admit their own screw-ups, and that just makes the extremists on both sides get worse and …

Well, craziness happens.

Dan Kauffman
Guest

Interesting all this VOX Day character has to do is put a Liberal Author on his list and they will eliminate themselves?

Now THAT should SHOW HIM!