Monster Hunter Nation

Well, this sucks.

Today two talented, worthy, deserving authors who we had on the Sad Puppies 3 slate gave up their Hugo nominations.

Annie Bellet: https://overactive.wordpress.com/2015/04/15/hugo-story-withdrawn/

And Marko Kloos: http://www.munchkinwrangler.com/2015/04/15/a-statement-on-my-hugo-nomination/

Nobody should give either of these authors anything other than kind words. You should bear them no ill will for this decision. They are damned good writers and you have no idea idea what they’ve been through recently.

Marko added this statement on Facebook:

My withdrawal has nothing to do with Larry Correia or Brad Torgersen. I don’t know Brad personally, but Larry is a long-time online acquaintance and friend. We’ve known each other since before our writing days. I have no issue with Larry or the Sad Puppies. I’m pulling out of the Hugo process solely because Vox Day also included me on his “Rabid Puppies” slate, and his RP crowd provided the necessary weight to the ballot to put me on the shortlist. I think Vox Day is a shitbag of the first order, and I don’t want any association with him, especially not a Hugo nomination made possible by his followers being the deciding factor. That stench don’t wash off.

##

Personally, I think this sucks. We were trying to get talented quality writers on the ballot who would normally be ignored. Neither of these share my politics. There are some amazing authors nominated for the first time, and I wish that people would just read the fucking books, but hell, who am I kidding? I’m tired of repeating myself. Some of the stuff I’ve seen go down over the last two weeks is so infuriating it would blow your mind.

For the 100th damned time, Vox wasn’t on SP3. He did his own thing. Now authors are being tried for guilt by association with somebody they never chose to associate with, and their nominations are somehow meaningless because the wrong person plugged their work.

That’s unfair bullshit and you all know it.

I’d encourage everyone to still check out Marko and Annie’s work because they are awesome writers.

I'm not Vox Day
Wendell's Roughnecks shirts
Keith Glass
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

This is sad: I’ve already read Marko’s book, was looking forward to Annie’s in the Voter Packet . . .

Jase
Guest
Jase
2 years 9 days ago
The Phantom
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Thanks for that Jase. I’ll read it and post a review.

Eventually. ~:)

RAH
Guest
RAH
2 years 9 days ago

Thanks for the link. That story of Annie’s was just superb. It made me cry. I would have voted for it.

Karl Weiss-Weiss
Guest
Karl Weiss-Weiss
2 years 9 days ago

Excellent story. Definitely Hugo material.

Keith Glass
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

I just finished reading that. It was AMAZING. We are lessened by it not being a nominee. . .

Alligosh
Guest
Alligosh
2 years 8 days ago

It had me until “He flicked the safety on and kept the gun low at his side”.

On a Glock??!?

Jared Anjewierden
Guest
Jared Anjewierden
2 years 9 days ago

Well frack.

I’ve had Annie’s other stuff on my short to be read list for awhile now, and I was really looking forward to reading/rereading all of the stories to decide if she still had my top spot.

This freaking sucks.

Julie Frost
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Annie’s story will be included in Shattered Shields in the voter packet, so you can still read it. 🙂

Guest
Jeff Weimer
2 years 9 days ago

Well, we can use this, and John Wright’s disqualified entry, to see if the replacement entries are of the same or better quality.

Jccarlton
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Here’s one of them. What are our friends the CHORFs putting up in their place? More of this dreck:
http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-day-the-world-turned-upside-down/
I mean seriously, bad physics, really bad writing, I mean, grade school level, being considered for the “Best in SF.” THIS is what the SJWs are pushing. By the time they are done there won’t be anything left.

RobM
Guest
RobM
2 years 9 days ago

I just finished reading this and I would really like my time back. I shudder to think of this being up for any award.

The Phantom
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

I stopped reading when the main character let the woman die while he tried to rescue his goldfish.

Don’t need to have that polluting my brain, at all.

So much of SF/F is composed of shit like this too. Really gotta do Sad Puppies 4-14, just to keep that kind of bollocks down in the slush pile where it belongs.

Keith Glass
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

So. . . “If you were a Goldfish, my love?”

(evil grin)

Alligosh
Guest
Alligosh
2 years 9 days ago

wow. That’s actually… quite bad.

The flow is off, the dialog stilted, and the entire piece reads like a twelve year old wrote it.

Feather Blade
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Feather Blade
2 years 9 days ago

The author has obviously never kept fish.

Troushers
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Troushers
2 years 9 days ago

Hey, why WOULDN’T a goldfish survive in a weak acid-sugar solution?

Karl Peterson
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Karl Peterson
2 years 9 days ago

I quit reading when he dumped the fish into a bottle of 7-Up AND IT SURVIVED.

I have nearly 300 gallons of freshwater tanks in my house. Ask me if a fish can survive in 7-Up. Go ahead.

Oh, wait. THAT must the part of the story that’s science fiction.

JustAGuyOnTheWeb
Guest
JustAGuyOnTheWeb
2 years 8 days ago

You mean fish don’t turn CO2 into O2?

Julie Frost
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

To be fair, it’s a translation from Dutch.

But, yeah, I read the whole thing and kept waiting for something to actually, you know. Happen. It’s a story about letting go in which the main character never actually does let go. We leave him climbing down a rope ladder, still holding on.

aacid14
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aacid14
2 years 9 days ago

Where is the actual science in this fiction. The fantasy/sci-fi in it is at best a Macguffin for the rest of the story. It could have just as easily been an earthquake or fire and nothing would change. Shouldn’t a sci-fi/fantasy award nominee have sci-fi or fantasy as a focal point? That just seems a basic requirement for the genre (Even by Larry’s ‘genre’s just somewhere to shelve it’ arguments)

Steven Merrill
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Steven Merrill
2 years 9 days ago

O.K. Omnomnom bit cracked me up, I gotta ask, is this real? I worked at 2 jobs today; and did my taxes during lunch, so I am a bit fried. But please tell me this is satire. Please, cuz if it is, it is brilliant, if not… Wow.

Vivienne Raper
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

I’ve just blogged about The Day Turned Upside Down (and Goodnight Stars) if anyone is interested:

http://www.futureslesstravelled.com/?p=71

I’ve just started writing a ‘fiction techniques’ blog. And I’m explaining why I think “The Day…” is message fiction and why political message fiction can be uncomfortable. I’m not sure I’m correct, as I read both stories quite quickly, so all thoughts welcome.

Duke of URL
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Duke of URL
2 years 9 days ago

That story is terrible in so many ways, I don’t have enough words to condemn it…

Don F
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Don F
2 years 9 days ago

Couldn’t get through that … was there even an effort to explain why the atmosphere didn’t fly away and everyone suffocate instantly?

Khazlek
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Khazlek
2 years 9 days ago

Well, we can use this, and John Wright’s disqualified entry, to see if the replacement entries are of the same or better quality.

Maybe not. I thought the RP list just added works were the SP list hadn’t nominated 5, but I was mistaken, because I didn’t look at the lists closely enough.

Two Sad Puppy nominees were out-nominated by RP nominees, Megan Grey and Steve Diamond. Given how well the puppies did overall, it seems likely that one of the two would be the replacement, if there is one.

http://difficultrun.nathanielgivens.com/2015/04/14/sad-puppy-data-analysis/

Rob
Guest
Rob
2 years 9 days ago

I’m buying books from both Marko and Annie (already bought Marko’s when I read his blog; getting Annie’s tonight).

I wish others had the required intestinal fortitude to make clear what a horrible human being Vox Day is and to disassociate themselves in no uncertain terms, just the way Marko did. Brad Torgersen’s mealy-mouthed dancing around the issue hasn’t gained him any respect.

Doctor Locketopus
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Doctor Locketopus
2 years 9 days ago

Get back to us when everyone on your team disavows Marxism, a philosophy that is directly responsible for the murder of over one hundred million people.

And counting.

Johnathan
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Johnathan
2 years 9 days ago
>”Get back to us when everyone on your team disavows Marxism, a philosophy that is directly responsible for the murder of over one hundred million people.” Oh, we’re playing that game? Let’s discuss a little evil known as Colonization then, and how Western Europe and the entire Anglosphere (that includes America!) are guilty of not only warcrimes, crimes against humanity and literal genocide. Did you know the population of the Americas was greater than Western Europe prior to European Colonization? Let’s attribute the mass-genocide of the >100,000,000 (that’s one hundred million) natives of the Americas to the Western European and… Read more »
Andrew
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Andrew
2 years 9 days ago

Yeh, but I’m not a Colonialist nor do I support any Divine Right, be it to rule or land. It’s not like there’s anyone running around saying,”Colonial Imperialism was a really good idea, but no one’s ever really done REAL Colonial Imperialism”.

There’s all sorts of people who currently, today, claim to be socialists, Marxists and such, and pretty much all of them wind up at “but Mao/Stalin/Hitler wasn’t REAL socialism”.

I’m not for holding individuals accountable for the deeds of their ancestors. When they advocate for a policy…then it’s fair.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest
Doctor Locketopus
2 years 9 days ago

“pretty much all of them wind up at ‘but Mao/Stalin/Hitler wasn’t REAL socialism'”.

Bingo. The fact that it’s turned into slavery, starvation, and mass murder every other time doesn’t count. It will be different with the Right People in charge — where “Right People” is defined as the Johnathan type of cafe commie, who are always too stupid and/or ignorant of history to realize that the Johnathans are always the first ones sent to the death camps, come the revolution.

sean
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sean
2 years 9 days ago
Doc Locketopus said ““pretty much all of them wind up at ‘but Mao/Stalin/Hitler wasn’t REAL socialism’”. Bingo. The fact that it’s turned into slavery, starvation, and mass murder every other time doesn’t count. It will be different with the Right People in charge — where “Right People” is defined as the Johnathan type of cafe commie, who are always too stupid and/or ignorant of history to realize that the Johnathans are always the first ones sent to the death camps, come the revolution.” If this comment was on face book I’d be bemoaning the lack of an “Holy shit that’s… Read more »
suburbanbanshee
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suburbanbanshee
2 years 9 days ago

Which Native American cultures rejected conquest and colonization of other Native American civilizations?

Which Asian ones? Which African ones?

Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Small pox sucked.

But it happened long before there was mass colonization.

Feather Blade
Guest
Feather Blade
2 years 9 days ago

If it were as easy to ethnically cleanse a continent as you are suggesting, the Vikings would have done it 600 years before the Portugese and English even tried. Instead the Vikings – the Vikings – – were driven away by the natives.

The only reason that Europeans were able to colonize the Americas is because a plague had already wiped out the natives before the Europeans ever arrived.

The only thing the Europeans were “guilty” of is building their American civilization on somebody else’s post-cataclysmic wasteland.

Patrick Chester
Guest
Patrick Chester
2 years 9 days ago

Well, they were sometimes harsh to the survivors, but as Andrew pointed out, you won’t find many people saying Colonialism wasn’t done correctly and it needs to be tried again.

Marxism and it’s various flavors? Yeah, lots of people keep claiming it wasn’t really tried correctly and it will be better this time.

Which I guess means a billion will die next time and people like Johnathan will screech “but… but COLONIALISM!!!”

Andrew
Guest
Andrew
2 years 9 days ago

Well…plague and steel, and gunpowder..the sail…printing presses…scientific method…

Sure, plague made having a foothold easier, but I don’t see a way for a late-stone culture to avoid being assimilated or destroyed by contact with a culture that’s inventing mechanical clocks.

Lea
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Lea
2 years 9 days ago

Whatever happens we have got the maxim gun and try have not.

But yeah, nobody is all ‘let’s do colonialism again!’

Joshua
Guest
Joshua
2 years 9 days ago

“Well, they were sometimes harsh to the survivors,”

And vice versa. This notion of evil white people vs. virtuous and peaceful natives is a preposterous false narrative.

Duke of URL
Guest
Duke of URL
2 years 9 days ago

You know perfectly well that you can’t get facts through to someone whose mind was already made up.

Doctor Locketopus
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Doctor Locketopus
2 years 9 days ago

” Let’s discuss a little evil known as Colonization”

Colonization is largely a thing of the past, and you’ll find few supporters of it.

Marxism is still with us, and is busy murdering more people even as we speak.

Thanks for playing, though. You’ve been indoctrinated well.

60guilders
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60guilders
2 years 9 days ago

Excuse me while I laugh in the face of your first paragraph. That’s a highball estimate, and most historians set it at around half of that.
Furthermore, most of the natives who were killed died of disease, and thus died–well, accidentally. It’s not like the Europeans understood germ theory and acquired immunity.
Whereas Marxism, on the other hand, deliberately sets about killing anyone who stands in its way. And, as pointed out to you, there are still Marxists. There are no colonialists.

Ad Astra
Guest
Ad Astra
2 years 9 days ago
100,000,000 population in a preindustrial agrarian and/or stone age nomadic cultures. hang on …HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH…..ok ya sure “No one in America is “good” if we must bear the sins of others in history who share some semblance of our ideas.” ya so you realize the worst of those population loses occurred in areas of Spanish dominion right? So what semblance of ideals did the US founders share with Spanish monarchists? And have you ever actually looked at the ancestry of the vast majority of the current population of Central and South America? Yup not a drop of indigenous blood there. Also… Read more »
Joshua
Guest
Joshua
2 years 9 days ago
You’re stupid. Most of those people died without ever having seen or been seen by a Western European. And they were in fact colonialists themselves; they are not the original inhabitants of North America. Or do you want to talk about the colonialism of the Jews? How about the colonialism of the Chinese? How about Muslim colonialism? For that matter, you do realize colonialism happened several centuries ago in North America, right? You and your stupid false equivalencies, your empty-headed rhetoric which tries to tie whatever sounds vaguely “feelbaddish” no matter how completely and totally unrelated it is. When anyone… Read more »
Doug Loss
Guest
Doug Loss
2 years 9 days ago

This is just a load of crap. The Native American population had gone through a massive disease-related reduction greater than the European Black Death, perhaps 100 years before European colonization began. The rest of your post is merely the standard western-civilization-hating spew we’ve come to expect from the left.

Laowei
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Laowei
2 years 9 days ago
Let’s actually look at a little history as well before we judge our forebears too harshly for their treatment of peace-loving, eco-friendly previous colonization wave. Read the native american role in King Phillips war and the American revolution. Essentially both the French and British used them to commit atrocities that neither side had the stomach to commit themselves. If you pick the losing side of two major wars to commit atrocities, you can expect the reconciliation process to be difficult. Read about the Comanche and how they were viewed even by the other Indian tribes. They were an apocalyptic death… Read more »
Scot
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Scot
2 years 8 days ago

You realize that the drop in population in the Americas was primarily due to inadvertent transmission of diseases, I hope. (I probably need to emphasize the ‘inadvertent’ part of that, the majority of the deaths due to disease occurred before there was any significant European presence in the Americas. No significant part of it was deliberate.)

Find me a society 600 years ago that wouldn’t be “guilty” of crimes that were only invented in the last century or so.

SDN
Guest
SDN
2 years 7 days ago

Jonathan the liar apparently doesn’t realize that there weren’t 100 million people in North America when Columbus arrived. Period fucking dot.

SDN
Guest
SDN
2 years 7 days ago

Oh, and Jonathan? If you believe in Evolution, there is no such thing as genocide. There’s only inferior genetics losing to superior. So get stuffed.

DaveP.
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DaveP.
2 years 4 days ago

…he said, in English, over the Internet.

keranih
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keranih
2 years 9 days ago

So do you want this posted in 40 point font or will 18 pt do? And should it be in all red caps and bold?

Can we just send you an email notifying you when the disavow goes up, or do you want it out on Twitter, too? OH! And do we have to send a copy to VD, too?

And then who will you want everyone to denounce?

Go stuff it. You got a problem with VD, you go take it up with him. Quit using your hard on for him as an excuse to bash others.

Adam Lawson
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Brad Torgersen isn’t associated with Vox — he doesn’t NEED to distance himself.

Brad could burn Vox in effigy and it wouldn’t gain him any respect, either. Insinuating otherwise is dishonest at best.

PavePusher
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PavePusher
2 years 9 days ago

Fuck your purity test and fuck you.

Patrick Chester
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Patrick Chester
2 years 9 days ago

Now now… you don’t know where Rob’s been.

Jeff Gauch
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Jeff Gauch
2 years 9 days ago

I hope you realize that Vox Day is a far better human being that you are. For one thing, he isn’t a vile Progressive, so that’s a good million shithead points knocked off his tally. Plus he’s at least honest about his positions, questionable as they may be. He doesn’t mewl around playing passive-agressive bullshit games.

Since you’re big into denouncing: With sincere heart and unfeigned faith I abjure, curse, and detest you.

Stingray
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

“I’m an asshole, and here are the exact ways I’m an asshole, but at least I’m honest about it.”

Gosh. Just gives me all the warm fuzzies.

Feather Blade
Guest
Feather Blade
2 years 9 days ago

Better that than the alternative.

It is easier to avoid a hazard that’s decked out in hazard lights and reflective tape, after all.

Synova
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

It gives me the warm fuzzies. What’s your problem?

One self admitted asshole admits he’s an asshole and has no power over you.

The others pretend they are upright and true and do their best to control you, punish you, and if you don’t comply, keep you OUT and likely have the power to do so.

Give me the first guy. Seriously.

Feather Blade
Guest
Feather Blade
2 years 9 days ago

My bad. I mistook your warm fuzzies comment for a sarcastic rather than genuine sentiment.

I am in full agreement with you on this point

BigGaySteve
Guest
BigGaySteve
2 years 9 days ago

I post over at Vox but I am new here so I can’t tell if you are serious or being a parody. I am the one that puts black/moslem on gay attacks links up over at Gaypatriot.

Joshua
Guest
Joshua
2 years 9 days ago

You do realize that the rabid puppies folks are now talking about putting forward a 2016 slate of SJW BS, especially Scalzi, JUST to see if they’ll take a “principled stand” and refuse the nominations or not, right?

You morons are too stupid to think that you could run the Hugos as your own little private dacha. The Hugos Reconquista will continue apace. If they have to get burned down in order to be rebuilt, at least when all’s said and done, they’ll be about quality science fiction again.

James May
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

What Brad did is a lot more than what IntFem’s have done regarding their own problem children. Not only do they not call them out they give them awards. When it comes to giving Vox Day an award they don’t want to. I cannot detect what standard they are employing that would lead to that.

#DitchYourRacists

Ted N
Guest
Ted N
2 years 9 days ago

Fuck off, McCarthy, and fuck all your shitty friends too.

Joshua
Guest
Joshua
2 years 9 days ago

Contrary to what you’ve been taught by several generations now of cultural Marxist teachers, McCarthy was 1) polite and professional, and 2) correct about Soviet spies.

All kinds of things, including especially the Venona Project. have proven McCarthy right. Own McCarthyism. It wasn’t anything like what the progressives have lied to us for years and said it was.

Heck, McCarthy wasn’t even very right wing.

Doug Loss
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Doug Loss
2 years 9 days ago

Exactly. To make leftist heads explode, tell them, “McCarthy was right!” and then prove it to them.

Nicole
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Nicole
2 years 9 days ago

I kinda wish Vox would have called his movement Rabid Wombats or something just to keep things clear :/

David Lang
Guest
David Lang
2 years 9 days ago

he picked rabid puppies specifically to ride on the coattails of sad puppies, so we can wish he would do something different, but there’s no reason to expect him to listen.

NKR
Guest
NKR
2 years 9 days ago

I defend VD on the deliberate misinterpretation of his intellectual debate, but I think he’s a selfish dick for coopting the SP name and imagery. Now it’s all about him. Presumably that’s why he did what he did.

But much of the stuff they attribute to him is edited and twisted out of context. That doesn’t change the fact that he does seem, in fact, to be an asshole.

Still, forced disassociation is a cornerstone of fascism. And these people like to think they’re inclusive.

Suburbanbanshee
Guest
Suburbanbanshee
2 years 9 days ago

If he’d called it Rabid Wombats, the SJWs would still have “confused” the two slates.

Because nobody is really confused. They are choosing not to pay attention to the differences, just like people choose to see no difference between Gamergate and SP3. They do it all the time on matters of more moment (like conservative Republican vs. social libertarian), so why would you expect anything different?

Suburbanbanshee
Guest
Suburbanbanshee
2 years 9 days ago
Also, of course they’re still trying to isolate Vox Day and make him a scapegoat, and of course they would love for the rest of us to play their SJW game. It’s exactly the same thing that the clique people used to do in junior high to the designated victim. “If only you would just stop hanging out with Suburbanbanshee, we would liiiiike you. Her geekiness and constant bookreading is the only thing between you and popularity, we swear.” Although of course, some people don’t have to be asked. They see the writing on the wall and drop their friends… Read more »
Dan Lane
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Dan Lane
2 years 9 days ago

Yup. It’s about attacking the person, not their ideas. Vox is “nasty, badbad, horribul, and, and evul!” It’s not enough to disagree with his ideas. Ya gotta join in the witch hunt.

It gets real old, hearing the same old pathetic nonsense from a thousand different mouths (and sockpuppets).

BigGaySteve
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BigGaySteve
2 years 9 days ago

Maybe they could make something along the lines of By Vectron http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2009/12/17/all-hail-vectron-video/

Well this sucks on of the funniest sci fi skits is banned in the US, but a lot of there other works are not.

John Van Stry
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

And this just proves that the Hugos have been rigged for years, and that if you’re not one of the rightpeople having rightfun, that you will be PUNISHED.

I feel sorry for these authors, they did nothing wrong. But leftists really don’t care who they kill, maim, or destroy, as long as they get their way. I’m sure they were being put through hell, and were seeing their careers destroyed, because they had the bad luck to have been nominated out of turn.

So much for any calls of ‘temperance’ or ‘moderation’ from the left, huh?

Kristophr
Guest
Kristophr
2 years 9 days ago

What’s really hilarious is that some leftards are congratulating Marko now for declining the nomination, and promising to read his books.

They are going to get a fucking shock when they read what he has to say about his future Earth universal welfare state.

rocinante2
Guest
rocinante2
2 years 9 days ago

Evil genius, that.

He apparently has a pretty low opinion of government, bureaucrats, political elites, etc., too. 🙂

His withdrawal won’t stop me buying his stuff, but has apparently convinced a number of SJWs to give his work a try.

I wish I could be there for the head explosions.

h jay adkins
Guest
h jay adkins
2 years 9 days ago

Every time folks generalize the “other” and make blanket statements about how “all of those people are jerks” (or worse) they are in the wrong. Whether the person saying that is on the left or the right makes no difference it is wrong in either case. That goes for the sjw folks smearing the authors on the sp or rp slates with a broad brush AND sp folks smearing “liberals”. I’m pretty liberal and support the sp folks and think the sjw folks should sit down and shut up.

John Van Stry
Guest
2 years 8 days ago

I’m not talking about the ‘other’, I’m talking about a group with a well known and established track record.
Sorry if history isn’t your thing.

Faceh
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Faceh
2 years 9 days ago

Ironically this possibly presents a new strategy wherein Vox can simply support any of the writers he wants to see drop out in order to target the unwashed masses.

NKR
Guest
NKR
2 years 9 days ago

Yep. Look for that next year.

Adam Lawson
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Don’t think for a second this isn’t something VD has considered. Whether you like the man or not he is good at figuring out how to piss off people he doesn’t like.

Kristophr
Guest
Kristophr
2 years 9 days ago

It probably won’t have the slightest effect on the CHORFs.

Although I’d pay to see Scalzi’s reaction if Vox nominates his work.

Adam Lawson
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

I’d chip in, but not watch. I cannot stand to see Scalzi.

Larry is right about that guy being distasteful.

Wes S.
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Wes S.
2 years 9 days ago

Save your money; you’ll need it for the anti-nausea meds when Scalzi accepts his nomination with a weaselly shit-eating grin.

perlhaqr
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perlhaqr
2 years 9 days ago

This was pretty much my “hacker brain” solution for the next step of escalation.

“Take whatever slate ‘Making Light’ puts up and endorse that.”

Followed by “Make a list of every eligible work from 2015, and endorse that.”

Of course, we already know they have no consistency, so they won’t stand by their principle of “No Award anything VD endorsed”. *shrug*

B.Malloy
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B.Malloy
2 years 9 days ago

That’s a shame. Lines of Departure was excellent. I was going to have a hard time deciding whether to vote for Marko or Jim Butcher.

Wombat-socho
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

I was going to vote for Lines of Departure myself. Guess I’ll have to read the other nominees now or just vote No Award in protest of Marko’s withdrawal.

Dorothy Grant
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Read the nominees, and decide. That’s always been half of the goal of Sad Puppies: to get more good stories on the ballot, and then to get more people to read and decide what they like best.

You can still help us win, even if it won’t be those two good authors! (Besides, you still have them as two people to try out and buy more if you like it!)

sean
Guest
sean
2 years 9 days ago

well I just read , or tried to at any rate…the story they replaced Annie with. Uhhh..are we sure there isn’t someway I can get that time back? Dear lord someone invent a time machine now…..

Frank Ney
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Frank Ney
2 years 9 days ago

I couldn’t even get past the halfway point. My brain can process a limited amount of stupid in any given timeframe.

Beolach
Guest
Beolach
2 years 8 days ago

Have they actually, officially announced replacements? I’ve been watching, but I haven’t seen it… as far as I know, it’s still possible there may not replace them, and there may only be 4 nominees on the final ballot for these categories…

J. Carl Henderson
Guest
2 years 8 days ago

Gamergate has a time machine. It’s how we started Sad Puppies three years before we existed. Our time travel technology was given to us by the Daleks, in recognition of Gamergate’s superior evilness. But we won’t let you ride in it. Because evil, you know?

Beolach
Guest
Beolach
2 years 8 days ago

Replying to myself, looks like it is official now, there are replacements.
http://www.thehugoawards.org/2015/04/two-finalists-withdraw-from-2015-hugo-awards/

Barb Caffrey
Guest
2 years 9 days ago
That’s exactly what I said, B. I said the same thing about both works — Annie’s, and Marko’s. They both write very well. I do not have a supporting membership myself, but if I did, I would’ve read everything else and probably _still_ voted for them because I felt what they were doing was quite worthy and valuable. I do want to point out that not every liberal or centrist person approves of the tactics of the folks I’d like to call “the traditionalists” (rather than so-called SJWs or whatever). I definitely am to the left of many who post… Read more »
Barb Caffrey
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

BTW, Brad, sorry about misspelling your name. (I was typing too fast there.) It’s Torgersen…with an “e.” (I live in a place with many -on/-en name suffixes, so I should’ve been more careful.)

Frank Ney
Guest
Frank Ney
2 years 8 days ago

But we’re the wrong sort of fan and they don’t want our money.

Jackson Carberry
Guest
Jackson Carberry
2 years 5 days ago

There’s a similarity with the video game activists who are against people like Sarkesian and Co. fucking up video games with trashy crap that’s less game/decent graphics and mostly all polemic and preachiness. And yes, like you, I too am a flaming liberal that supports the SP’s against all of these crappy books being given Hugos, Nebulas, and PKD’s year after year-if this happens to video games, the industry will suffer a collapse similar to the crash of 1983/84

Jill
Guest
Jill
2 years 9 days ago
This is a shame. It will probably also embolden folks on the left to turn up the pressure on the remaining candidates to try to force as many of them as possible to withdraw. From their perspective, they just need a single non-SP or non-RP candidate for each award so they can block vote for that person regardless of the quality of the candidate works. Vote for the non-puppy affiliated candidate, rank everyone else below “No Award”, shut out the puppy-backed candidates, and not quite unleash “the Kurgan” by using No Award as the top choice for everything.
TheNybbler
Guest
TheNybbler
2 years 9 days ago

The Kurgan will unleash himself no matter what dirty tricks they play. Watch him put a few SJWs on his slate next year just to get them to withdraw.

AG
Guest
AG
2 years 9 days ago

The strange thing is seeing some of the ones who were insulting these poor writers only a few hours ago saying how marvelous they are and how they are going to buy their book.

John Van Stry
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

And you can be sure that they AREN’T really going to buy the book, they’re just saying that to make themselves look good.

Kristophr
Guest
Kristophr
2 years 9 days ago

If they did read it, their little heads would pop.

BigGaySteve
Guest
BigGaySteve
2 years 9 days ago

I actually tricked some gays into going to see Ender’s Game by lying about the shower scene. I told STR8s they could tell people that their steak eating gay friend that isn’t afraid of weapons said it was ok to watch it.

Feather Blade
Guest
Feather Blade
2 years 9 days ago

Well it wouldn’t be proper operant conditioning if they didn’t hand out treats for the desired behavior, would it?

Iron Spartan
Guest
Iron Spartan
2 years 9 days ago

Why would that be strange? They have returned to the fold by aligning themselves with proper group think. Those that surrender to the collective will be rewarded.

Wes S.
Guest
Wes S.
2 years 9 days ago
The other way to look at that is: “If you pay the Danegeld you never get rid of the Dane.” I understand why Marko and Annie pulled out, and I’m *not* attacking them for it…but the sad and unlovely truth is that both of them have just effectively given the Flaming Rage Nozzles of Tolerance veto power over their writing and their literary careers. Whatever short-term rewards they might reap isn’t going to offset the fact that, long term, they’ve just bundled themselves into straitjackets. And it’s not doing the image of the Hugos any good, either. But then again,… Read more »
Bjorn the Horse
Guest
Bjorn the Horse
2 years 9 days ago

Just remember what happened to Winston Smith after he was fully conditioned to love Big Brother…

Frank Ney
Guest
Frank Ney
2 years 8 days ago

We’re the only ones that remember that. George Orwell has been removed from the reading lists and the libraries of our high schools.

Nohbody
Guest
Nohbody
2 years 7 days ago

Unfortunately, many people seem to fail to understand that 1984 was a warning>, not a blueprint.

Frank Ney
Guest
Frank Ney
2 years 8 days ago

For about the past ten years a Hugo nomination has been the flag to put the work on my “must miss” list. My limit for organized stupid is quite low.

Synova
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Those surrendering to the collective aren’t rewarded by anything other than dependence on the collective.

Shaming and most of the harassment is primarily an IN GROUP control mechanism.

AspiringTruFan
Guest
AspiringTruFan
2 years 9 days ago

I think the stench of Vox Day is indeed strong, but would wash off.

Winning (or even placing ahead of noah ward) while being on the rabid puppies slate would be clear sign that whatever piece we are talking about is damm good indeed.

I too am sorry to see this. Marko did make it clear that he saw the Rabid Puppies as a separate movement.

I plan to read and vote. I haven’t even looked over the Rabid Puppies slate, so I don’t prejudge those books.

I care about the Hugo.

Doug Loss
Guest
Doug Loss
2 years 9 days ago

To be honest, I no longer care about the Hugos. They have been irreparably damaged by the SJWs. The awards mean less than nothing to me at this point; I’ll stay away from Hugo winners unless I hear from some other source that they’re worth reading.

Julie Frost
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Oh, look, the Agents of Inclusion and Tolerance have succeeded in bullying a woman off the nomination list because someone she had no control over liked her story.

I hope they’re fucking proud of themselves.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest
Doctor Locketopus
2 years 9 days ago

A bisexual socialist woman, no less.

Perhaps this will open up a slot for Hip Young Person of Color John Scalzi to win another award.

For “diversity”.

sean
Guest
sean
2 years 9 days ago

I saw what they replaced her with….and I can’t get that time back…dammit

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Of course they are.

After all, the wrongfans aren’t allowed to like the same stuff they like. It’s verboten!

The thing I’m wondering is, how do they know who’ll get bumped up?

Jaxon Jensen
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Offtopic, but since you’re in this thread, you might find it worthwhile.

http://www.seattletimes.com/life/wellness/one-seattle-childrens-doctor-thinks-he-close-to-stopping-sids/

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 9 days ago
Thank you for the link. It’s a fascinating theory, and I’m wondering about that. Brandon didn’t like to be held horizontally, but preferred to be held at an angle, or held upright. The researcher’s site is here, and if folks feel it worthwhile, it may be worth it to donate. http://www.sidsguild.org/ Personally, if the Hugos end up losing the folk whose works I consider worthy and replace them with gray goo, there’s no worth in spending for the ability to nominate or vote for the Hugos. I would rather spend my money on a cause like this every year, than… Read more »
Nate
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

good to see ya around kid. been prayin’ for ya.

Shadowdancer
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

I pop in now and then, as a distraction when I start hurting too much.

Thank you so much for the prayers. They are greatly appreciated.

Kary English
Guest
2 years 8 days ago

Big, big hugs to you and yours. I’ve miscarried before, and I can’t even imagine what you must be going through.

Hang in there,

Kary

Coop
Guest
Coop
2 years 9 days ago
Don’t you get it? They ramped up the pressure specifically on the authors who identified as being on the left, or whatever the SJW’s “ONE OF US” category includes. They want the people who are supposed to be on THEIR side to drop out, so that the shortlist becomes more homogeneous with “right-wing, white male” authors. Thus giving their bullshit claims more perceived credibility. It is the same procedure as when a black person or a gay person comes out as a conservative. They are attacked with orders of magnitude more ferocity than the usual targets, because they need to… Read more »
Leatherwing
Guest
Leatherwing
2 years 9 days ago

When did Marko identify as being on the left? I can’t say that I know his politics, but I’ve been reading his blog for a few years and think he’s libertarian. Like most real people, I don’t think he completely agrees with any party, seems more like an independent thinker.

keranih
Guest
keranih
2 years 7 days ago

There really needs to be a Pox party. As in “A Pox on All Your Houses” party.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 9 days ago

Yup. We didn’t take a gay woman off the Hugo list. THEY did.

Karen Miller
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

This, a thousand times.

AG
Guest
AG
2 years 9 days ago

There will be plenty of time for that, but I was saying at Brad’s blog that the strategy next year will have to be rethought, because regular writer can’t be expected to subject themselves to this level of abuse.

keranih
Guest
keranih
2 years 9 days ago

I myself wonder if there are not some people eagerly scribbling away with the intent of having something fit to publish in time for consideration.

Reziac
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

I had that very thought.

*sharpens pencil*

Achillea
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

I’m about 2,000 words into mine, myself. I don’t have Twitter or FB (or Vine, or YikYak, or whatever the hell else is out there) and don’t give a rat’s ass what’s said about anyone by anyone on them. I also have a job and an adamantium self-image, so they can all take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut. I’ll KU it for $.99 when I’m done, and (if it’s okay with Larry) maybe mention it here if anyone’s interested.

sean
Guest
sean
2 years 9 days ago

flying fuck at a rolling doughnut? First time I’ve heard THAT variation on flying fuck. lol

Murgy
Guest
Murgy
2 years 9 days ago

Actually, no one should be subjected to this level of abuse, including Brad, Larry, Sarah, Dave, Amanda, John, Tom, or ANYONE ELSE!

The SJWs are celebrating tonight. Tomorrow, who will they turn on?

aacid
Guest
aacid
2 years 9 days ago

I am not sure if it is a matter of that though. This is the route the ruling clique uses because it works. They already seem to live in parallel universes as far as truth is concerned

Despair
Guest
Despair
2 years 9 days ago

Mr. Correia, I truly admire you and enjoy your work. However, recent events have convinced me that you and Mr. Torgersen are wrong. The hysterical reaction to science fiction fans buying memberships and participating in WorldCon has been eye opening; if these people hate Vox Day so much then they should stop making him look like a prophet. The Hugos deserve to burn.

AG
Guest
AG
2 years 9 days ago

The Hugos do not deserve to burn. They deserve to continue sinking into irrelevance.

Chris
Guest
Chris
2 years 9 days ago

Funny thing about this whole new affair – the right is always being warned to “disassociate itself” from “extremists” and …. the left never seems to reciprocate. Either someone is “rehabilitated” after a number of years, or if they are so egregious as to be truly damaging, they’re sent down the memory hole.

But disavow their own scumbags? “Police themselves?” I’ve yet to EVER see it.

Nathaniel Givens
Guest
2 years 9 days ago
This is really sad, and I feel sorry for both authors. I’m also a little frustrated that SP has worked harder to distance itself from RP. I get the whole “I wont’ participate in the shunning” thing. I think it’s a little misguided, but I respect it. The fact is, SP can take actions to distance itself from RP and show good faith *without* attacking Vox Day. For example: I think in hindsight having 5 recommendations per category was pretty objectively a terrible idea because it created–unintentionally, I’m sure–a new exclusive. If you’re not on SP / RP, you didn’t… Read more »
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Unfortunately, your objection to SP3 is untrue. But it’s been repeated so often people don’t realize it. (The CHORF’s MIGHT be conscious of it, but they like to claim that SP3 was designed to monopolize the ballot.)

Out of 16 Hugo categories, SP3 had five nominations in only four of them. Novel, Short Story, Related Work and Fan Writer. The rest had four or three. Except Graphic story which had only one.

masterdude
Guest
masterdude
2 years 9 days ago
Quite frankly, I don’t feel sorry for both authors. Maybe I feel a tiny bit sorry for Annie Bellet because it seems she just doesn’t have the stomach for the fight (but it’s a fight she and every SFF author wouldn’t be able to run away forever), but I don’t feel sorry for Marko Kloos because the reason he gave for rejecting the reward is ridiculous. Why is he giving a damn about Vox Day being an asshole if his work is good enough to be nominated? If you care about the “right” people praising your work then something is… Read more »
Frank Ney
Guest
Frank Ney
2 years 8 days ago
Unfortunately, unless you’re signed with Baen the “right” people praising your work is the difference between eating and starving. And for the past few decades having the “right” people is contingent on toeing the SJW line and punching the correct SJW holes on your ticket, and God help you if you’re declare an unmutual. It was either Larry or Brad who told of his first experience as a Hugo nominee: “OMFG how did someone who owns a GUN STORE get in here???!!! UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN! STONE THE WARLOCK!” It wasn’t about the nominated work, it was all about the pig who… Read more »
Jack Blount
Guest
Jack Blount
2 years 9 days ago

I just read the short from Annie Bellet and that was a very worthy story. She will be back on another date, I think that it is a shame that we can’t vote on this story.

SDN
Guest
SDN
2 years 7 days ago

The problem is that she won’t, unless they change the rules so Sad Puppies can’t even sign up to vote. Because any time we do, all the Good People will be told they must withdraw.

Book
Guest
Book
2 years 9 days ago

That sucks. I hate that people have made this into anything other than getting good, quality stories on the ballot. Neither should have felt the need to withdraw.

So pissed off at everyone who’s made them feel this way. One thing’s for sure, the SP-haters can’t hide behind sanctimonious BS anymore. They’re so buried in hate they just had to throw this tempertantrum. They had to make it about race. Or politics. Or gender.

They HAD to ignore facts.

And they had to ignore the stories.

aacid
Guest
aacid
2 years 9 days ago

Oh they will. They will still put up the façade and I bet it will still work. Fear and shame are potent tools.

aacid
Guest
aacid
2 years 9 days ago

Much as I hate to admit it, the attacks are starting to make me think that the black flag has been raised. It was not by either Vox or Larry. Just fear that the campaign will reach scorched earth proportions and not go down.

KAX
Guest
KAX
2 years 9 days ago

Oh look, I just bought two Marko Kloos books and two Annie Bellet books.

bjlinden
Guest
bjlinden
2 years 9 days ago

I haven’t actually read any of Vox Day’s work yet, aside from a handful of posts on his blog, but this smarmy, insipid comment just inspired me to go purchase a couple. Good job!

David Lang
Guest
David Lang
2 years 9 days ago

so does this give Vox a veto on any Hugo nominee? all he has to do is add them to his list and they must refuse the nomination to be ‘good people’

He is obnoxious enough to use this against the SJW types as well. If he were to put one of them on his slate, would they really refuse the nomination?

NKR
Guest
NKR
2 years 9 days ago

Yep. I fully expect to see him putting Scalzi on his slate next year.

While I’m seriously annoyed that VD copied the puppies, distracting from the whole issue, I do think he will make sure the SJ bullies regret intimidating people out of their just nominations.

Synova
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Putting Scalzi on the RP slate next year would be delicious.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 9 days ago

To all the anti-Puppies out there: are you satisfied now? Are you happy that you shamed, threatened and intimidated people into withdrawing? Or will you continue your war of attrition until the ballot is cleansed of all heretics?

AG
Guest
AG
2 years 9 days ago

Actually, incredible as it seems, they deny that they had anything to do with this, citing the writers’ messages that doesn’t say anything about the campaign of abuse.

Doctor Locketopus
Guest
Doctor Locketopus
2 years 9 days ago

Yes, just like every confession signed in the Lubyanka was totally voluntary. Totally. It says so right there on the paper.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 9 days ago

I know there’s been a lot of pressure on folks behind the scenes. Can’t say more.

Alex
Guest
Alex
2 years 9 days ago

I hope Butcher holds out. I suspect he’s big enough and distant enough from the CHORF sphere of influence (great thing about them disdaining urban fantasy) that they couldn’t do much damage.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 9 days ago

I tweeted support for him.

I’m on fire on Twitter tonight. Laurell K Hamilton just got involved. She’s friends with Larry, so I’m assuming on the pro-Puppy side.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 9 days ago

Me to Butcher:

“Christopher Chupik ‏@CChupik · 13h13 hours ago
@longshotauthor I just want to say that I hope you stand firm and don’t let the haters intimidate you.”

Butcher to me:

“Jim Butcher ‏@longshotauthor · 12h12 hours ago
@CChupik There are haters? :D”

🙂

Joshua
Guest
Joshua
2 years 9 days ago

Of course they will. And they now have implacable foes who refuse to back down and be intimidated, so it’s going to be a massive game of Hugo chicken for a year or two now.

We’ll see what happens when it comes time to actually announce winners. If Puppy-slated works win, then the SJBullies will go away in tears impotent. If they don’t, then it’s going to be scorched earth next year.

rocinante2
Guest
rocinante2
2 years 9 days ago

Was Stalin satisfied? Mao? Pol Pot? Baron Harkonnen? Sauron?

SJWs may not be all alike in philosophy or goals, but they are all alike in their conformist social authoritarianism. The Millenials, especially. They’ve grown up with the web, and social media, so they’re bringing the herd mentality and the weapons of shunning and ostracism to every party.

All must be as they want, and all must be the same.

D White
Guest
D White
2 years 9 days ago

At what point do you cut your losses and go home? If you fight until the place you’re fighting for is no longer fit for anyone, was it worth it?

Cargosquid
Guest
Cargosquid
2 years 9 days ago

Yes….yes it is.

D White
Guest
D White
2 years 9 days ago

Okay. But what happens? To the Victor goes the spoils, but what you get is destroyed.

Jeff Gauch
Guest
Jeff Gauch
2 years 9 days ago
You’re taking the metaphor beyond crush depth. Assume SP totally achieves its goals, it completely drives the politically motivated out of fandom. In that case the Hugos are awarded to quality works. Even if media coverage is hostile, people will occasionally pick up Hugo-winning works, enjoy them, and recommend them to others. After a few years the rancor from the “Puppy Wars” will fade in memory, but the association of “Hugo=quality” will be reinforced year after year, returning the Hugos to the honor they once held (and once again attracting the SJW’s who seek to hide their ugly ideology behind… Read more »
D White
Guest
D White
2 years 9 days ago

I guess I had the quick fix in mind! Wouldn’t be worth having if it was easy!

Viidad
Guest
Viidad
2 years 9 days ago

The Hugos already sucked. We’re working on rehabilitation. RP/SP FTW

I am Worldcon now.

Blume
Guest
Blume
2 years 9 days ago

Ask the Russians if the sorched earth was worth beating Hitler and Napoleon.

Joshua
Guest
Joshua
2 years 9 days ago

This is also stupid. The Hugos are not Russia and the SJWs are not bravely defending their home.

THE PUPPIES are the Russians in this analogy. The SJWs are the invaders. Just because they’ve had the run of the place for years now doesn’t mean that they belong there.

Joshua
Guest
Joshua
2 years 9 days ago

Although… on re-reading your post, it looks like that may have been what you meant after all anyway. If so… my bad.

Alex
Guest
Alex
2 years 9 days ago

If it’s no longer fit for anyone, burning the ruins to the ground and salting the earth isn’t a bad plan.

Joking. Mostly.

Cataline Sergius
Guest
Cataline Sergius
2 years 9 days ago

A question. At this date, can they withdraw from the ballot?

I can’t seem to find a definitive rule on this matter.

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
2 years 9 days ago

I’m sure they can. The big question is can they be replaced or is that slot on the ballot “dead”?

AG
Guest
AG
2 years 9 days ago

Nathan’s right. They can withdraw now. The precedents apparently say that they will not be substituted at this stage, but after so many strange things who knows.

Jack
Guest
Jack
2 years 9 days ago

For what it’s worth, I thought “Terms of Enlistment” was great. The other books not so much.

Tim McDonald
Guest
Tim McDonald
2 years 9 days ago

I already gave up. Let the Hugo’s remain what they became around 1985. An indication of shoddy stories with all the right messages, unreadable and unworthy of being purchased; a mark of shame telling us which books not to bother with.

JustAGuyOnTheWeb
Guest
JustAGuyOnTheWeb
2 years 8 days ago

Here’s the problem, a lot of people including myself, didn’t know how broken the Hugos are/were.

I’d rather see it labeled as the award for best SFF as determined by InclusionCon than purport to represent that which is best in SFF. You shouldn’t be able to have it both ways, and they did for a long time. Now the problem is being addressed one way or the other.

Either it’s their award, or it belongs to us all. It can no longer be both.

Martin L. Shoemaker
Guest
Martin L. Shoemaker
2 years 9 days ago

Annie Bellet writes damn fine fiction. Her collection “Dusk and Shiver” is hands down my favorite book of this millennium. Her nominated story was on that same level. And no assholes are going to take that away.

Doug Wardell
Guest
Doug Wardell
2 years 9 days ago

As one of the folks who voted the RP slate, I’m sad to see this. I’d looked forward to reading Kloos specifically because I’ve seen Vox recommend his works several times. If Mr. Kloos doesn’t want to take the heat and feels the need to withdraw, fine. That FB statement frankly pisses me the hell off though. He’s definitely moved way down my reading list.

Peter O
Guest
Peter O
2 years 9 days ago

Well FUCK.
You voted for them without reading, because of VD’s endorsement? Way to prove the SJWs right asshole. SP was all about promoting authors to read and vote on, but Fuck You.

Hey Larry. Think we can get the Hugo’s group to Strip out straight RPs Slates?

Doug Wardell
Guest
Doug Wardell
2 years 9 days ago
Are you suggesting that you thought everyone who voted the Sad Puppies slate read every work they nominated? If so, I think you’re naive. If Brad or Larry suggested people only nominate works they’ve read, I missed it. The fact is, I read every entry in each fiction category last year which was included in the voter packet (luckily, I’d already read Wheel of Time). So while it’s true that I don’t know for sure that Kloos’s work is better than everything non-SP in there last year, I think it’s a safe bet since I know from experience that my… Read more »
Julie Frost
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

…actually, they DID suggest that people only nominate works they’d read.

More than once.

Doug Wardell
Guest
Doug Wardell
2 years 9 days ago
Well as I said, if that’s so then I missed it. It happens. Vox certainly recommended taking his whole slate as is, and I agree with that. To quote Larry directly, “…you can usually guess who all of the finalists are going to be that year before any of the books have actually come out or been read by anyone, entirely by how popular the author is with this tiny group.” At worst, RP nominated similarly to past nominating bodies based on popularity with SP/RP instead of SJW Worldcon voters, so it seems disingenuous to act like RP is somehow… Read more »
Book
Guest
Book
2 years 9 days ago

Yup. AND it was stated- OFTEN- that if we knew of an author we liked better, we were welcome to nominate them instead- and/or give them a shout-out in the comments of the post. If you go back to those old posts, there are a LOT of shout outs.

Book
Guest
Book
2 years 9 days ago

That last comment was addressed to Julie, BTW. Sorry for confusion.

keranih
Guest
keranih
2 years 9 days ago

Doug –

What you did was wrong. You should not have nominated anything you hadn’t read. And you shouldn’t have taken anyone else’s word for how good a work was.

I do respect your willingness to own up to this mistake.

Peter O
Guest
Peter O
2 years 9 days ago
Did you not notice any of the Book bombs that Larry and Brad were Promoting? Did you think they just did those for giggles? “As noted earlier in the year, the SAD PUPPIES 3 list is a recommendation. Not an absolute. ” https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/02/01/sad-puppies-3-the-2015-hugo-slate/ Plus all the amazon links next to the names. I looked on VD’s blog, and I see that he did recommend straight voting. So maybe that is why you are confused. But the Sad Puppies effort was all about spotlighting nominees and saying “If you agree with our slate below…” i.e. because you read them and agree… Read more »
Blume
Guest
Blume
2 years 9 days ago

I voted the Kloos one with out reading too. I had read terms of enlistment and thought it pretty good and I wanted at least one book in the hugo packet that I hadn’t already bought and read. I bought and read every other book bomb leading up to the nominations.

Daveon
Guest
Daveon
2 years 9 days ago

Please tell me you didn’t really just say ‘I liked the first book, and wanted the second free’?

I didn’t like it but I bloody well bought it.

sean
Guest
sean
2 years 9 days ago
“Are you suggesting that you thought everyone who voted the Sad Puppies slate read every work they nominated? If so, I think you’re naive. If Brad or Larry suggested people only nominate works they’ve read, I missed it.” *headdesk, headdesk, headdesk* Oh for fuck sake. They’ve both said REPEATEDLY hnot to take their word for it, READ THE FUCKING BOOKS and nominate as you see fit or suggest your own.Hell so have any number of the rest of us who’ve been commenting on the brouhaha in support of the puppies. Sigh someone get me a couple advil and a bourbon.
Andrew
Guest
Andrew
2 years 9 days ago

Occasionally, I wonder why some people are vile, hateful or just plain malevolent. Then I remember:

It works.

Lea
Guest
Lea
2 years 9 days ago

Seriously. This news was damned depression but I can’t make other people put up with all the bikes slander and pressure possibly from friends.

I’m pissed that vox day borrowed so many from the sp
Slate instead of just coming up with his own stuff.

Lea
Guest
Lea
2 years 9 days ago

Ok what the hell did auto correct do to my words? Sorry guys, I should know better than to post on my phone.

Joshua
Guest
Joshua
2 years 9 days ago

Because it’s UNTHINKABLE to ponder the notion that he might actually have enjoyed some of the same books as Brad, and for the same reason?

Lea
Guest
Lea
2 years 9 days ago

Because it’s UNTHINKABLE to ponder the notion that he might actually have enjoyed some of the same books as Brad, and for the same reason?

He named his slate ‘rabid’ puppies.

He used a good portion of the same slate. What were the overlap numbers? More than could be accounted for by chace, I think.

I wish Vox had done more to differentiate himself.

Darius
Guest
Darius
2 years 9 days ago
Well – if the point was to nominate the BEST works regardless of political message, then “differentiating himself” would mean not promoting things he saw as the best works…. thus making him a hypocrite. OR you think he doesn’t actually think those books and stories are among the best available and has malign intent in picking many of the same stories. So either he’s a hypocritical liar promoting inferior books to make everything burn down, or you want him to BE a hypocritical liar and not promote what he believes is best to spare your feelings. I’ll give you one… Read more »
Joshua
Guest
Joshua
2 years 9 days ago

It makes no difference at all whatsoever what he would have named it or how much differentiation he had attempted. That’s completely beside the point. The Hugo gatekeepers and SJWs are completely incapable of seeing anything beyond their bubble as anything other than “not us.”

Lea
Guest
Lea
2 years 9 days ago
you want him to BE a hypocritical liar and not promote what he believes is best to spare your feelings. I don’t want him to be anything, but his goals for this whole thing were different. He conflated the two slates, long before the others jumped in and did in national print. And he clearly picked some similar works in an effort to sweep the field if possible. Which is why he said this: They are my recommendations for the 2015 nominations, and I encourage those who value my opinion on matters related to science fiction and fantasy to nominate… Read more »
Arwen
Guest
Arwen
2 years 9 days ago

Wow, just when I think my disgust with the social justice bullies can’t be any greater. That’s too bad for both Marko and Annie.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
2 years 9 days ago

You’re not alone in your disgust, I assure you.

Joshua
Guest
Joshua
2 years 9 days ago

With every move the SJWs lose more ground. They have no idea–because they’re so used to living in their stupid little bubble–what their antics are doing to everyone else around them.

Also, because they don’t actually understand how people think. The r/K theory suddenly opened my eyes to why I couldn’t make any sense out of rabbit behavior, and how I see it in reverse; rabbits can’t make any sense out of people behavior. So they are destroying themselves without even knowing it.

htom
Guest
htom
2 years 9 days ago

And NOW I’m tempted to spend my $40 just so I can vote for Noah Ward at the top of each category, regardless of quality. The way to stand up to bullies is to stand up and bite, not lick!

Julie Frost
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

… who are the bullies, though?

The best way to stand up to the bullies is to nominate and vote for the best stories you can find. And to encourage everyone else to do the same.

Period.

Lea
Guest
Lea
2 years 9 days ago

The best way to stand up to the bullies is to nominate and vote for the best stories you can find. And to encourage everyone else to do the same.

And how well will that work if everyone is just driven off the ballot by bullying? I cannot make other people have the fortitude to stand up for themselves in the face of such harsh treatment.

If the best writers are driven off the ballot by bullying, then we will have the same broken system.

rocinante2
Guest
rocinante2
2 years 9 days ago

Is the best way to stand up to bullies a firm, “No, I will not play your game“?

Or is the the best way to stand up to bullies to punch back twice as hard.

My teachers (and the ABC Afterschool Special) taught me the former, and I believed. The reality of daily life in public school, and in the big city, taught me different.

I wish I’d read Ender’s Game when I was 8 years old, instead of 21, My life would have been very different 🙂

Darius
Guest
Darius
2 years 9 days ago

Well – it’s a continuum.

Once you prove that you’re willing to be a hard target and “Punch back twice as hard” – then “I’m not willing to play” is enough most of the time after that.

Sometimes before – but rarely. Bullies are pretty good at picking out people who aren’t inclined to punch, and so will mistake “leave me alone” as “we can keep messing with him”

JSchuler
Guest
JSchuler
2 years 9 days ago
Keep in mind that we are only in year three of Sad Puppies. And the first two don’t count, as that was Larry trying to prove a point, not to effect change. This is but the first major battle, and both the SP and RP have scored devastating hits on the opposition. Just because it is not a flawless victory is not a reason to reach for the nuclear option. Let it continue. Stick with LC’s strategy if that is what you came in with, because nothing so far has undermined it. Me? I’m a fence sitter between saving the… Read more »
Joshua
Guest
Joshua
2 years 9 days ago

Bingo! Perfectly said!

J. C. Salomon
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

On File 770 there is an open question whether they will be replaced on the ballot. If they are, and if (as with the replacements for ineligibility) the Hugo admins update the “most nominations/fewest nominations” numbers, some further indication should be available regarding the actual impact of the RP slate.

Adrienne Foster
Guest
Adrienne Foster
2 years 9 days ago

The withdrawn nominees will be replaced with the next in line of their categories, providing they received the required 5% of the nominations. It will take a day or so for Sasquan to make the announcement.

Michael ball
Guest
Michael ball
2 years 9 days ago

Larry I want to thank you for the last few days of fun. I know you are taking a lot of flack for this, but I’ve not had this much fun in a long time. I am honered to be a fan of the king of hate. It’s amazing how mad people get when you pull the curtain back and expose the truth.

Wes S.
Guest
Wes S.
2 years 9 days ago
Well, that sucks. I suppose that Jim Butcher will get my “Best Novel” vote by default. Unless he gets bullied into withdrawing, too. Larry refused his Hugo nomination because he didn’t want to make the 2015 Hugos all about him. How well did that work out? And who will say “Screw it” and pull out next? The hell of it is: It’s a short-term “victory” for the Flaming Rage-Nozzles of Tolerance that in the long run is only going to strengthen the position of Vox and everybody else who’s ready to just burn the Hugos to the frickin’ ground. Hell,… Read more »
Synova
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

Bottom line… he *can’t* burn it down without their willing and enthusiastic participation.

Looks like they’re right on board the Vox train shoveling coal.

SumDood
Guest
SumDood
2 years 9 days ago
Does Amazon tell authors when someone has their books wishlisted? And, does it also tell them when someone deletes one of the author’s books from their wishlist? If so, Mr. Kloos will be sad. Giving in to terrorist demands is never the smart option. Letting bullies push you around and make your choices for you is idiotic. I cannot reward such behavior, let alone condone it. Kloos made a choice to throw his support behind cretins like Requires Hate and the Neilsen-Haydens, and child molesters like MZ Bradley and Ed Kramer. If Vox Day is a “shitbag of the first… Read more »
perlhaqr
Guest
perlhaqr
2 years 9 days ago

I’m not Marko, but I can assure you that it’s perfectly possible to think that Vox Day and Nora Jemisin are both assholes. “Requires Hate” is apparently a psychopath, and the Neilsen-Haydens are scrofulent SJW trolls of the first order.

There are many different flavors of shitbag in the world.

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[…] Correia comments here. Vox Day comments […]

David Ditsch
Guest
David Ditsch
2 years 9 days ago

The SJW might believe that this is a win for their side. It ‘s not. It is a win for Vox Day. Every act like this just empowers him more.

Daveon
Guest
Daveon
2 years 9 days ago

It’s been heads I win, tails you lose, for Beale since this started…

Rockin Ray
Guest
2 years 9 days ago

i don’t know either of these authors but I do respect their decisions. For the people banging on them b4hand and getting involved in a war (and that’s what it is now, unfortunately) without knowing is not something to deal with lightly. I’ll try to find some of their works.

I barely know of Vox Day outside of he seems to be a cantankerous blog writer, and it’s really a shame that he picked a name so close to the Sad Puppies.

One last add: I was disappointed in too many of the Marko blog commenters 🙁