Monster Hunter Nation

Addendum to Yesterday’s Letter

Yesterday the following media outlets ran articles about the Sad Puppies campaign, in which they either directly said or insinuated that it was run and populated by racist straight white males with the goal of keeping scifi white and male. (not true)

The Telegraph
Entertainment Weekly
Salon
Huffington Post
Slash Dot
io9
The Guardian

It was almost like they were all reading off the same script.

Stupid EW

Most of them said our slate was exclusively white, straight, and male (not true)

Most of them said that last year was a big win for diversity (I believe last years winners were all white and one Asian).

Most of them said our slate was exclusively right wing (not true, in fact the majority skew left, we have socialists, liberals, moderates, libertarians, conservatives, and question marks. To the best of my knowledge, I believe that last year’s “diverse” winners all espoused the same social justice politics).

But there is no bias in this perfectly functioning system. My side said that political narrative trumped reality in this business. Believe me yet?

We’ve seen this behavior before, but never at a level so blatantly false. Truth is utterly irrelevant. Actual positions don’t matter. Our actual words are replaced with fabricated new ones in “scare quotes” or bizarre out of context nonsense.

Everyone on my side is held to account for the most outlandish thing anyone tangentially related to us says, even if they’re not on our slate, but none of the untrue, vile, rude, horrible, things said about us by our opposition is ever condemned.

In the last 24 hours I’ve watched people we nominated have to go public about their sexual orientation and politics in the hopes of not becoming targets, and staving off social justice witch hunters.

We’ve been yelled at by the inquisition for failing to notify all of our nominees that we were going to endorse their work, and that makes us bad, not the inquisition.

Don’t worry, at this rate, if we keep this up the SJWs will make it so that everyone in fandom will have to wear helpful little color coded armbands that explain which group you belong to.

To the the SMOFs, moderates, new comers, and fence sitters I addressed yesterday, yes, we have disagreements with you. We’re happy to discuss them. We are not, however, happy to be libeled as the vilest forms of scum to walk the earth, and we are not happy to live in fear of career destruction.

You want my part of fandom to coexist peacefully? You want to work out our differences and keep the awards meaningful? So do we. Though we disagree on the details and the issues, we also love this stuff.

But coordinated slander campaigns, lies, character assassinations, threats, witch hunts? No… We won’t stand for that.

You want to know why we’re here now, loud, annoying you, upsetting your apple cart? Read those articles. Look at the bylines by culture warriors who all share the same set of politics. You say that you don’t like how we made the awards political. Newsflash, they have been for a long time, only you wouldn’t know it because my side didn’t bother to take the field. Now we’re here, taking ground they think they own, and those culture warriors don’t give a shit about you, the authors you love, the books you read, or the future of your culture. They think they own you like they own every other group, and they’ll lie, slander, threaten, coerce, defame, sabotage, and hate anyone who stands up to them.

No More.

EDIT: Brad Torgersen, who has the helm for SP3 chimed in too. He got libeled as a white supremacist on his birthday.

https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/04/07/fort-living-room/

Read that link. Look at the picture of Brad and his family. Explain to me how an Army Warrant Officer in a 20 year interracial marriage with biracial children is a white supremacist, because some trust fund babies with gender studies degrees declared it to be so.

EDIT: 8, I missed the A/V Club.

The Weber State Creative Writing Class is now open
A letter to the SMOFs, moderates, and fence sitters from the author who started Sad Puppies

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470 Comments on "Addendum to Yesterday’s Letter"

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Garrett Lee
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Garrett Lee
1 year 5 months ago

I salute you, sir. If you decide to sue for libel and set up a legal fund, I will definitely help out. (Although, since you’ve gotten a decent amount of money from me already, I don’t think you’ll need one…)

flyergrad
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flyergrad
1 year 5 months ago

I’d chip in for a character named after me…

Davidisontherun
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Davidisontherun
1 year 5 months ago
GamerGate would help to chip in I’m sure if you planned that. Right now the separate resistances in fandoms are like Lego bricks. They’re a real pain in the ass to these SJWs that try to stomp all over everything but we could snap the pieces together and become a 15 foot mecha bullshit destroyer. SF/F fans, gamers, comic book readers and more are finally standing up to defend the hobbies they love and will no longer capitulate like the neo-puritans are accustomed to. I’m excited to see this victory for you guys and can’t wait for next year so… Read more »
Eli
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Eli
1 year 5 months ago

You can pretty much bet that there would be people willing to chip in. We’ve already been though the “gamers are dead” articles. Boy oh boy doesn’t this spate of “sad puppies are dead” articles seem familiar.

I almost feel like JC Denton, realizing that there might actually be a real conspiracy here.

ChicagoRefugee
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ChicagoRefugee
1 year 5 months ago

You don’t have to wait until next year! Buying a supporting membership for $40 now gets you Hugo voting rights for this year and nominating rights for next.

Plus, thanks to puppies both sad and rabid, it gets you a lot of free* reading material so you can make educated votes!

*free with purchase of Worldcon membership. contact your doctor for details.

Jordan S. Bassior
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

I think that we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the SJW dominance of science fiction and fantasy. And it’s coming just in time … had it continued much longer, it might have destroyed the genres.

jdgalt
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jdgalt
1 year 5 months ago

It’s about time. How about a new hashtag, along the lines of “So-called ‘Social Justice’ is dead!”

Charles Scott
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Charles Scott
1 year 5 months ago

I would note that Charlie Jane Anders at IO9.com was a HUGO winner in 2012 for a story published on TOR.com. Furthermore, she is published at salon.com as well. Given her numerous media connections and connections with Tor one begins to wonder if there is coordination occuring. One also notes that Gawker media was involved with Gamer Gate too.

Ratseal
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Ratseal
1 year 5 months ago

I am glad that you are investing time in this but I am angry that it is using writing time that I need from you in order to supply my fix.

Seriously, that hit piece on Brad and yourself was nauseating.

Let’s see if anyone from the MakingLight crowd or their apologists tries to walk it back.

Shadowdancer
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1 year 5 months ago

https://twitter.com/CChupik/status/585460310816886784

Not happening. They’re doubling down.

S1AL
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S1AL
1 year 5 months ago

O.o

Well, now I have a new example of extreme irony.

Christopher M. Chupik
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Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 5 months ago

When Tempest complained about hate speech, I tweeted “Irony.”

I don’t think she got it.

Kristophr
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Kristophr
1 year 5 months ago

Time for a hitler’s bunker parody.

James May
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1 year 5 months ago

“Paul Weimer ‏@PrinceJvstin 2h2 hours ago
@caldodge @tinytempest @CChupik @sparkymonster Calvin, turning this into a personal attack is uncalled for.”

You’re wrong. You’re a couple of retards.

Ratseal
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Ratseal
1 year 5 months ago

Anyone going to call out Tempest, or does she get a pass, Paul?

Eamon J. Cole
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Eamon J. Cole
1 year 5 months ago

Pass? Paul Weimer guards her flanks.

S1AL
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S1AL
1 year 5 months ago

And that is a lot of territory to guard…

TomT
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TomT
1 year 5 months ago

Tempest gets fisked over on according to Hoyt here. http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/04/07/not-your-shield-rhiain/

Christopher M. Chupik
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Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 5 months ago

Looks like a bunch of folks are taking her to task. They even retweeted a few of my tweets to her.

Joshua
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Joshua
1 year 5 months ago
Paraphrasing a parable I read the other day, for he who has ears to hear, etc.: One day, there was a little girl, who crept up to a sleeping bear and poked it with a stick. The bear continued sleeping. The villagers who lived with the little girl paraded her bravery and gave her awards and commendations. Thus rewarded, she went and did it again. Again, she was rewarded with adulation from her village. A third time she went to poke the bear. This time, the bear said, “I’m sick of this BS” and with one swipe of his massive… Read more »
Stephen J.
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Stephen J.
1 year 5 months ago
Well, *killing* the little girl probably would be disproportionate. I might modify the end of your tale thusly: A third time she went to poke the bear. The bear opened one eye and growled. Terrified, the little girl went running back to her village, and the villagers all gathered in a rage and vowed to drive off the bear: “How disproportionate a reaction, to terrify that poor helpless little girl!” Pelting the bear with pebbles and stones, they at last woke it; with a mighty roar it swept through their ranks, knocking several down and bruising them, and then lumbered… Read more »
Joshua
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Joshua
1 year 5 months ago

Nah, too complicated. I like to keep things simple.

Stephen J.
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Stephen J.
1 year 5 months ago

Understandable, but beware of being too simple — if you want to present the villagers as real idiots it doesn’t do to make them look like they have a point. Even in metaphor I wouldn’t suggest killing as a proportionate response to anything but a real threat.

On the other hand, if I am being too much the editor to what was meant as a momentary gag then feel free to tell me to shove off. 🙂

Grayson
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Grayson
1 year 5 months ago

Could be infinitely worse….
Imagine villagers being dumb enough to get somebody like Agent Franks both annoyed and focused… 😀

Book
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Book
1 year 5 months ago

They never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever walk it back.

Instead the run to twitter and screach “LiES! ALL LIES!” (we saw you TNH. You are a ridiculous person.) and then they double down on their own slander.

They never provide quotes.
They never back up their assertions.
This is all they have.

Kristophr
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Kristophr
1 year 5 months ago

Goebbels never let a little think like the truth deter him. The SJWs are no less fanatical.

Nathan
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Nathan
1 year 5 months ago

Salon. Wasn’t that one written by that utter idiot and disgrace to Jeopardy Arthur Chu?

Nathan
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Nathan
1 year 5 months ago

Okay, snide comment aside, given Chu is part of the con crowd straddling games and sci-fi, I fully expect that there were some sort of Right People whisper campaign.

Vintermann
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Vintermann
1 year 5 months ago

Apropos Chu:

“We’ve seen this behavior before, but never at a level so blatantly false. ”

Oh, we have, we have. Sincerely, Gamergate & NotYourShield.

Jhelpura
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Jhelpura
1 year 5 months ago

We’ve seen this behavior before, but never at a level so blatantly false. ”

Oh, we have, we have. Sincerely, Gamergate, NotYourShield, Atheist community, Skeptic community, MRA’s.

Christopher M. Chupik
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Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 5 months ago

Chu: “Arthur Chu ‏@arthur_affect · 7h7 hours ago
@Moon_Clinic @AaronPound Baen Books Manly Man stories are actually a “marginalized” genre right now but they can’t admit that”

Oh. Really?

Wex6
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Wex6
1 year 5 months ago

Yes, really! Who cares about pesky bestseller lists. TWITTER HAS SPOKEN!!

T.L. Knighton
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Larry, I’ve shared this elsewhere on social media, and I don’t want this to feel like spamming your pages or anything, but I want people to stand up as well.

http://tlknighton.com/?p=7023

You and Brad are “my people”. I stand by my people come hell or high water.

I’d like others to make similar stands. They have to stop thinking they can just do this crap, and no one else will care.

Vintermann
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Vintermann
1 year 5 months ago

Him and Brad are probably not “my” people in any important sense. But they’re still PEOPLE, dammit. Anyone who actually cares about fairness, justice and truth as something independent from political tribalism has a great occasion to show it right now. You go, puppies.

Mike Mike
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Mike Mike
1 year 5 months ago

Isabella Biedenharn’s is a casualty of the SJW machine. She took their narrative and posted it without any research… which has probably served her well in the past. Fortunately EW.com took some steps to correct the libel, and this morning it looks like her twitter handle disappeared from the article and they finally removed the racist and misogyny tags.

My question is, how long until the SJWs claim Ms. Biendenharn has been harassed into hiding by #gamergaters?

Michael Ellis
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Michael Ellis
1 year 5 months ago

“Harassed into hiding by #GamerGates”? Dude, have you not figured out that whatever you’ve read about GamerGate in the media just as false as what you’ve ready about Sad Puppies?

Mike Mike
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Mike Mike
1 year 5 months ago

Yeah dude. I’m a Sad Puppy 2 and 3 voter. The point I was making is the same as yours… reality doesn’t matter to them. Their next move is to make Biendenharn a victim… watch it happen.

Lea
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Lea
1 year 5 months ago

Isabella Biedenharn’s is a casualty of the SJW machine. She took their narrative and posted it without any research…

I think that makes her a casuality of her own poor journalism skills. I’m not interested in making allowances for people who will smear someone without even doing the most utterly basic research first. She should lose her job.

Pugmak
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Pugmak
1 year 5 months ago

It makes her a willing soldier of the SJW army. Nothing less.

There was no part or piece of ignorance or mistake on her part. She wasn’t mislead or misinformed. She is a misleader and misinformer.

Book
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Book
1 year 5 months ago

Journalists: “we heard someone call these guys racist/ misogynist/ etc, so we decided to write an article WHILE DOING NO RESEARCH AT ALL.”

This is not the behavior of people interested in promoting the truth. This is what hacks do.

Lea
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Lea
1 year 5 months ago

I just read the guardian article and while it’s clear they got the same press release at least they include a quote from Larry.

Back from Space
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Back from Space
1 year 5 months ago
Basically, a new headline should read, “Dopey Millennial* Mugged by Reality.” * – I understand that there are many Millennials who are not divorced from reality, but they aren’t the ones beclowning themselves as our special snowflake here just did. The problem is that the propaganda factories we laughingly call “universities” and “colleges” are not only failing to prepare students for real life, but are actively sabotaging their ability to properly function in it. Practical skills and critical thinking have been replaced with the academic version of conspiracy theories, warped perspectives, and unrealistic expectations. Graduates are incapable of balancing a… Read more »
Differently
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Differently
1 year 5 months ago

There are many universities, some good at what you talk about, some bad. If a student doesn’t research the university before deciding to go to it, that is a poor decision. But there are a number of private and public universities with great programs that teach a number of practical skills.

Javaed
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Javaed
1 year 5 months ago
So probably a side decision, but as a millennial I can tell you that college was portrayed to me as a necessity if you wanted to make anything more than minimum wage by society in general. There was never a discussion about trying to plan for an actual career, and there was never any discussion about the consequences of student loans. I was lucky in that my parents were intelligent (and gave me good advice) and that I was offered a rather generous scholarship program. I escaped the trap of student loan debt. I’m in the minority though, and I… Read more »
Javaed
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Javaed
1 year 5 months ago

* Side discussion… not decision. Darn you auto-correct.

Differently
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Differently
1 year 5 months ago

I’m a millennial also, and I am also one of the lucky ones that won’t have horrific amounts of debt. I agree that more should be done to inform people about the problems of student debt.
But college does teach a lot, and a lot of jobs do require college degrees.

sean
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sean
1 year 5 months ago

I give it maybe another 24hrs before they say she was harrassed into hiding Orrrr…throw her silly ass under the wheels of the bus. Remember the latter is a tried and true tactic of theirs too

Kristophr
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Kristophr
1 year 5 months ago

EW will throw her under the bus. The SJWs will canonize the crazy cat lady.

Ashterah
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Ashterah
1 year 5 months ago

If she’s a casualty, she’s a casualty of her own cupidity. You DO NOT do journalism that way. Even “blog journalism.” Sweet fkn chrst! It’s like “journalism for dummies” never even made it on her radar.

If she is excoriated for her own actions, so be it. There will NEVER be accountability unless these so-called victims aren’t called out for what they are – perpetrators.

trackback

[…] Update: Larry notices the spread: […]

John Van Stry
Guest
1 year 5 months ago
The reason that they all look alike, is because they all came from the same source, I’m sure. Just as the news media formed a secret journo list to keep their left wing news stories in line, I’m sure that the ‘privileged class’ who have been the gatekeepers for the Hugos sent out a nice press release yesterday far and wide. Odds are that many places engaged their brains and their lawyers however before attempting to publish such blatant libel. We have all seen, both on this forum and elsewhere, how much the people who think they ‘own’ the Hugos,… Read more »
Shadowdancer
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1 year 5 months ago

Got mine yesterday. I suspect it takes a while before one’s name shows up on the list.

Working on my own writing too.

Kristophr
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Kristophr
1 year 5 months ago

Welcome to the ranks of wrongfans enjoying wrongfun and engaging in crimethink.

Coop
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Coop
1 year 5 months ago

So they shit their pants over SP3 bloc voting, yet they have no problem with bloc journalism?

Kristophr
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Kristophr
1 year 5 months ago

Anything they do is automatically good. Anything you do is automatically bad.

Double standards are twice as good as standards.

Christopher M. Chupik
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Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 5 months ago

I’m stunned at how weak the other side really is. For all their bluster, they couldn’t keep SP3 off the ballot. The EW article: total failure.

Right now I’m singing:

keranih
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keranih
1 year 5 months ago

Yah know, I really wasn’t one to believe in conspiracies and shadowy grandmasters, or that professional writers would stoop to extremes like this.

I thought it was more just a loose group of cranky people who disagreed with other people on their particular taste in books, and maybe got a little hot under the collar in defense of their art.

I am deeply sorry to have been shown wrong.

Back from Space
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Back from Space
1 year 5 months ago

Nobody in Gamergate thought that there was Journolist-style collusion going on in the gaming industry, either. Not until they found themselves on the receiving end of the SJW outrage machine and Milo “Based Milo” Yiannopoulos blew the lid off it did Gamergate collectively jawdrop and post on 8chan that they owed conservatives who have been complaining about this for years an apology.

Nothing quite like having the Cabal of Crazy descend upon you personally to make you realize they really do exist.

Kristophr
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Kristophr
1 year 5 months ago

Not even a well run conspiracy.

Amateur retards. The bear they have been poking with a stick for years has confused them by ripping their heads off.

keranih
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keranih
1 year 5 months ago

And of the two, I think it’s the incompetence, rather than the malice, which bothers me the most.

A more perfect evil would have some…majesty to it. Grandeur. Maybe a flaming eyeball or two.

You know. Old school.

Kristophr
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Kristophr
1 year 5 months ago

We have the flaming eyeball. They have mere retardation.

Revel in our evil.

Geodkyt
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Geodkyt
1 year 5 months ago

The problem with battling the inept is that there is no joy, no honor, no Art, in beating the ever loving shit like Tony Stark suiting up to take on the Lollipop Guild.

Patrick Chester
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Patrick Chester
1 year 5 months ago

Frickin’ sharks with frickin’ lasers on their heads!

keranih
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keranih
1 year 5 months ago

Jumping out of a plane with snakes in it!

Michael Kingswood
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

A little late to this thread, but I have to say your comment takes the cake.

Majesty indeed.

You, sir or ma’am, leave me grinning widely and laughing with glee. Well done.

🙂

Guess
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Guess
1 year 5 months ago
Are any of the people leading the charge for Sad Puppies going to Worldcon? I think i read a post by Larry last year that said your fans don’t go to Worldcon. I dont think they will start attending unless authors they like attend and sit on Panels. I think Brad Torgerson wrote that he is getting called up by the military at that time so he can’t go. The people who run worldcon are volunteers. My understanding is they have to spend their own money to win the bid. Did they do anything to you? I really think people… Read more »
Differently
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Differently
1 year 5 months ago

Fantasy has actually done about as well in the best novel category as Sci-Fi for the past ~14 years. Before that, it was all sci-fi, pretty much.
Fantasy won in 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010, and 2012. Two of those were Gaiman.

keranih
Guest
keranih
1 year 5 months ago

Gaiman doesn’t count. They re-wrote the rules for the World Fantasy Award so the prose writers wouldn’t have to go nose-to-nose with him.

Don’t get me wrong, he’s done some lower-quality things, but still.

Years where Gaiman wins don’t count for anything except ‘Gaiman won.’

Calvin Dodge
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Calvin Dodge
1 year 5 months ago

(yes, I’m the Calvin excoriated in that tweet).

I’m not going this year. But since I live near Houston, and next year’s Worldcon is in Kansas City, I’m thinking about how much fun it would be to attend it while wearing an SP4 T-shirt (or even something by Mad Mike, if I can find one that’s not too off-color for ME).

Joseph Capdepon II
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Joseph Capdepon II
1 year 5 months ago

I’m done. I tried being nice to them. I tried being polite when engaging them. I’m done.

If they want war, by the gods, they will have war.

windsong
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windsong
1 year 5 months ago

I just want to thank you, Larry. For standing up and being willing to put yourself in the line of fire, and for consistently making your position clear.

The outright lies and liberal outpouring of hate is sickening to see, and you have handled it with far more grace and dignity than most. Thank you.

James May
Guest
1 year 5 months ago
Listen, when the core institutions of a literary genre have fallen so far that we have to debate and explain the concept of rules or how law and equal protection works, that is a core genre that has fallen farther than I honestly ever thought a group of Americans could. For that to not only happen to a group of ARTISTS but one’s involved in a genre that specializes in perceptual shifts is a disgrace. These are the redneckiest of the rednecks, the worst sort of conformists who don’t possess a brain in their skulls. Reading Making Light, or Scalzi’s… Read more »
S1AL
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S1AL
1 year 5 months ago

I’m insulted on behalf of all the rednecks I know.

John Van Stry
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

(Applause). Once again, you have nailed it sir.

Wes S.
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Wes S.
1 year 5 months ago

The problem is, they don’t call it hell.

They call it home.

And they think it’s so wonderful the rest of us should live there too. Whether we want to or not.

Mark Andrew Edwards
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

They say ‘white, straight and male’ as if that was a bad thing.

I kid, I kid, of COURSE it’s a bad thing to them.

I’ll be at Worldcon, it’s in Spokane so it’s too close to miss. But I was at Norwescon just last week, too. (Watched the Hugo noms get announced live) Though there was a whole SJW track there, there was also a strong militarySF track, which was a pleasant surprise.

James May
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

More racial defamation in scare quotes from an SJW:

“tnielsenhayden retweeted Madeline Ashby‏ @MadelineAshby That moment when you explain the Sad Puppies & Hugo noms to your mother: ‘Because some straight white men think they own the future.'”

Ashby once apologized to an audience for being on an all-white convention panel, so that’s the level of brainpower in play.

“Madeline Ashby says: This weekend I was on an all-white panel on multiculturalism in SF, and we all agreed it was bullshit and apologized to our audience —- many of whom were people of colour…”

Reziac
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

So why didn’t some of these people of color volunteer to sit a panel? it’s not like the bar to entry is all that high (cripes, *I* have been asked to be on a panel) and concoms are always begging for more panelists. If you don’t like who’s doing the job, volunteer yourself to do it better, and that includes being on panels.

great unknown
Guest
great unknown
1 year 5 months ago

In your books, there is very little whining, and a lot of “shoot first, shoot last, and shoot at any point in between.” So when do we see the lawsuits?

Hopefully before poor little victim Biedenharn indeed goes into hiding to avoid that vicious patriarchal attack called a subpoena.

The discovery alone would be worthwhile. I suspect enough info would turn up to lead to a RICO case.

Retro_Rocket
Guest
1 year 5 months ago
To the following rcade Someone Else Chris Gerrib R. Maddox Lamont Cranston Lisa Hertel and anyone else that oppose or disapproves of the Sad Puppies. Please read the articles listed. After that try and ignoring your personal feelings toward the sad puppies crowd and answer the following questions. Specificly: Are the articles factually correct or not? Did the articles present multiple sides of the issues as befitting journalstic standards or not? Is the the type of discussion or conversion you want to see in the media or not? Please explain why you think what you think. Also what are you… Read more »
Back from Space
Guest
Back from Space
1 year 5 months ago
Lamont Cranston, last I saw, was too busy concern trolling about “OMG VOX DAY VOX DAY!!1eleventy!1!!!” to be capable of forming a coherent sentence. Not that you can expect a quality response after he’s finally sobered up, since he went down the Guilt By Association fallacy rabbithole without stopping to think that sane people are going to take one look at the circlejerk he’s either attempting to suck up to or is himself a part of and go, “lolnope”. Vox ranting on his blog is not even remotely the same as actively sabotaging the reputations and careers of innocent people.
Delayna
Guest
Delayna
1 year 5 months ago
I’m not going back to yesterday’s comment section to find it, but a troll listed a bunch of alleged VoxDay quotes and demanded that Larry comment/explain/commit seppuku. Listing outrageous quotes or acts from someone associated with a conservative is a long-standing troll technique for avoiding debating a conservative about what *he* does or thinks. But it occurred to me that it is also a fantastic way of getting dubious or downright nonfactual “quotes” out on the Internet associated with someone’s name. When they ask a person other than the person “quoted” it’s not surprising when an out and out lie… Read more »
Andy
Guest
Andy
1 year 5 months ago

I just noticed rcade over at Black Gate smugly declaring victory over Larry. The thread as a whole is almost hilariously behind the times as the editor keeps insisting that the Sad Puppies could win over neutral observers if only they just tried being nice.

James May
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Squuuuuueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

Kristophr
Guest
Kristophr
1 year 5 months ago

Being nice has resulted in decades of shaming. Screw nice.

James May
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

I have no way of knowing but I suspect O’Neil and Black Gate were pranked. What better way to mess with someone than to get them on an SP set of nominations? O’Neil’s been active in supporting all this diversity/defamation shit and if you disagree he deletes you and starts making smug comments about his porch. HIs porch is in Canada. He should go back there.

James the Wanderer
Guest
1 year 5 months ago
In regard to this, please see the following post from rcade, posted on BlackGate: ******************************************** “OH, I get it, we don’t vary in a way YOU APPROVE OF, so we’re wrong to vote for the authors we like.” You don’t get it, apparently. What you are doing that I dislike is bloc voting. When the rest of us are nominating things we like as individuals in good faith, it makes it easy for you to take all the nominations by voting for exactly the same nominees in lockstep. Your group is a minority of the nominators but you chose all… Read more »
Retro Rockets
Guest
1 year 5 months ago
Not quite true. The closest I found to what was said is this. rcade, on April 7, 2015 at 12:42 am said: Correia: You have no proof the Hugos were successfully gamed in past years. I will buy a copy of every novel you’ve written if you can prove that even a single novel/novella/novelette category was stuffed with a secret bloc’s nominees in the past 10 years. correia45, on April 7, 2015 at 1:17 am said: Luckily for you, they’re not that stupid, but I won’t miss the sales. Larry has said in the past he has not seen any… Read more »
Reziac
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Um. I was a neutral observer (who really couldn’t care less what wins a Hugo). Then I read both sides, as much as I could find. Guess which side was nicer.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 5 months ago

Damn it. Black Gate is a great site, but this last week, I might as well be reading Tor.com . . .

Retro_Rocket
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Thank you to the following :
rcade
Someone Else
Chris Gerrib
R. Maddox
Lamont Cranston
Lisa Hertel
and anyone else that oppose or disapproves of the Sad Puppies.

Your answers to my questions have spoken lounder then words and are just what I expected of people with such high moral standards and sterling character.

R. Maddox
Guest
R. Maddox
1 year 5 months ago
Sorry, I just now returned to the blog and saw this. But I don’t see what it has to do with my concerns over bloc voting. Are some people who disagree with the Sad & Rabid Puppies getting hysterial and behaving reprehensibly? Yes. Do I find such behavior shameful? Yes. But my disagreement with the various puppies has nothing to do with any impression of your politics or goals; I even agree with the stated goal of aiming for a greater variety in the shortlist. What I disagree with (and strongly) is the bloc voting tactic. To lay out my… Read more »
keranih
Guest
keranih
1 year 5 months ago

If I understand you right, you’re voting No Award because that’s your path to stopping slate voting, is that correct?

Or is your intent just to signal for change?

R. Maddox
Guest
R. Maddox
1 year 5 months ago

Yes, I am voting No Award both to indicate my displeasure with bloc voting and to signal a change in nomination process is needed. And yes, I really feel that strongly about lockstep bloc voting being a terrible thing for the Hugos, though I realize others don’t share my opinion. I’m not trying to dictate anyone else’s vote. I’m just explaining my reasoning for mine.

keranih
Guest
keranih
1 year 5 months ago

1) How are you defining “lockstep” voting?

2) What would it take to prove to you that there was no lockstep voting, by your definition?

R. Maddox
Guest
R. Maddox
1 year 5 months ago
1) A bunch of people all voting for the exact same slate of works, as Vox Day encouraged his Rabid Puppies to do (and apparently succeeded – or do you think that his own tiny publishing company really produced nearly all the year’s best short works? Even without seeing exact nomination totals, if a ballot is almost identical to a single given slate, then you can be fairly certain that slate’s proponents voted in lockstep. This is why the RP slate did far better than the SP slate; SP voters used slate as guideline, RP voters went in lockstep.) 2)… Read more »
Geodkyt
Guest
Geodkyt
1 year 5 months ago

#2 the data has been released and analyzed by people who *aren’t* part of, affiliated with, or have ever said (AFAIK) anything supportive of Sad Puppies.

The conclusion was it wasn’t lockstep voting – it was more voters. The Sad Puppy list showed no more “lockstep” voting than the other nominee candidates.

So, by your own declared standard, what you claim to be fighting *didn’t occurs* as alleged.

But you’re going to lockstep No Award anyway, aren’t you?

Geodkyt
Guest
Geodkyt
1 year 5 months ago

Sorry, but shouting, “But, LOCKSTEP, LOCKSTEP, LOCKSTEP!” doesn’t prove your point.

Mathematical analysis of the vote totals for the nominations establish that, even with a slate of recommendations, Sad Puppy voters didn’t vote in lockstep.

Differently
Guest
Differently
1 year 5 months ago

Most of us are in favor 1 & 3.
2 can be dealt with by increasing the number of popular independent slates to 20+, which would seem a good goal for next year.
For 4, don’t you think you should try to change the rules before No Awarding everything?
There are better ways to try to change the system than No Awarding deserving works. It would seem more ethical to try to change the rules before using No Award on deserving works.

R. Maddox
Guest
R. Maddox
1 year 5 months ago
I don’t feel merely increasing the number of slates is a practical solution given the current nomination rules and approximate electorate size. A bunch of slates like SP’s slate this year (where people did not necessarily vote in lockstep) can still easily be outweighed by a relatively small set of people voting in lockstep, as the Rabid Puppies did this year. It is the lockstep bloc tactic I particularly do not want to see take over the awards, no matter which clique happens to use it. The only defense available in the current system is to No-Award any and every… Read more »
Brian
Guest
Brian
1 year 5 months ago

So your going to contest “bloc” voting by bloc voting No Award.

Whatever, I am going to read all the nominated works, and vote accordingly. I hope the majority does as well and No Award bullshit is put to rest.

If after the numbers are released and changes are proposed to the Nomination process then so be it.

keranih
Guest
keranih
1 year 5 months ago
My objection to you using this tactic is 1) all of the voting changes can be gamed, so you will not remove locksteping even by changing the nomination process, 2) The changes won’t take place for at least two years 3) No awarding will not prevent any slate from appearing next year (and there is already a SP4 in the process) 4) A much stronger signal could be sent, re: nomination process, by No Awarding EVERYTHING, rather than just the slates that you know about. So on these grounds I hope to persuade you that your proposed solution won’t work,… Read more »
MattK
Guest
MattK
1 year 5 months ago
What if… these books that have been nominated this year REALLY ARE the ones that the majority of the voters find to be the best, regardless of any political opinions about the authors or the books themselves? What if there are 2,000 new voters next year, who just discovered that they can nominate, and they all like, oh, Christopher Nuttall and Jack Campbell, to pull two names out of my butt more or less at random? What if the enormous majority of SF/F fans, who have never voted for a Hugo because many of them either 1) never heard of… Read more »
Calvin Dodge
Guest
Calvin Dodge
1 year 5 months ago
If most people willing to pony up (is that speciesist?) $40 prefer a different book, I’ll live with that, the way I lived with the majority of voters electing (and re-electing) an incompetent politician. And if there are “tens of millions” of “mainstream” SF fans buying books, I rather doubt anyone who rates his/her success by “books sold” rather than by “awards granted” will complain. (it’s a trivial exercise to search THIS blog for examples of that attitude). But I rather doubt huge numbers of mundanes (not intended as a pejorative) will spend $40 for the privilege of voting for… Read more »
Differently
Guest
Differently
1 year 5 months ago
@Maddox We have yet to see if 20+ slates will be practical, I agree. I trust if 20 more slates pop up and 7000+ (or some other number) voters join, that you will withdraw your objection. According to the way you say you will vote, though, slates get to control what you vote for. If No Awarding is very effective in the Hugos this year, someone could say “I don’t like these works, and they’re likely to be nominated. I’m going to put them on a slate so that Hugo voters will No Award them”. Basically, if you No Award… Read more »
Retro_Rocket
Guest
1 year 5 months ago
Thank you for replying. I saw your comments in the previous thread and appreciate your concern about block voting. But that is problem inherent to any type of voting and I don’t foresee any final solution that will resolve that. My questions were asked not in regard to block voting but to learn what the critics of sad puppies think regarding the slander and character assassination illustrated by the linked articles. Their response would illustrate their character. I believe you have illustrated your character. The other people named may have not seen my questions but I suspect they are merely… Read more »
Brian
Guest
Brian
1 year 5 months ago

Calvin,

The main reason I became a hugo voter was for the packet of ebooks at a really good price. The 2nd reason was, I wanted my voice counted as nothing in recent memory was a book I thought was the best of SciFi and Fantasy.

I won’t be using No Award. I like the proposed change of 4 Nominations and 6 Entries.

Sombrero Joe (@sombrero_joe)
Guest
Sombrero Joe (@sombrero_joe)
1 year 5 months ago

Seeing the kind of shitstorm you’ve been going through and how much your blog posts resonate with me I’m surprised I haven’t heard about you. Combine that with the fact that I’m a huge reader… well I have a lot of books from an author I respect to catch up on!

TallDave
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

It’s Sabrina Erdelys all the way down.

Zsuzsa
Guest
Zsuzsa
1 year 5 months ago
I was wondering if anyone else was having that same thought. In both cases, we have a reporter who prints a highly inflammatory (and as it turns out, untrue) story based on an accusation from one side without even attempting to contact the accused for their response. In the case of Rolling Stone, and I would guess but don’t know EW, someone lied to the reporter but ultimately the story was accepted because it confirmed the pre-existing narrative. Ultimately, the only reason to fall for the lie was that the reporter wanted to be fooled. I have to think these… Read more »
Jared Anjewierden
Guest
Jared Anjewierden
1 year 5 months ago
Did they learn nothing from GamerGate? If not for the gamers are dead articles it would have blown over in a few months. Instead it marches on, and the game sites that published the articles are hurting for ad money. And bad enough (for them) that they pushed their narrative with EASILY demonstrable falsehoods but they did it while poking GGers in the eye that it was all their fault. I predict several thousand more voters before this is through. This is going to get ugly. Thing of it is, I can’t be bothered to care so much anymore. They’ve… Read more »
Pugmak
Guest
Pugmak
1 year 5 months ago
Lets keep this in context of the greater whole. We’re fighting back against a mindset. A mindset responsible for the mutation of our laws that purposely erode to destruction our cherished Constitutional protections. The mindset that plays witchhunt among our privately owned business such as bakeries and pizza parlors sending inquisitors and ambushers to use abusive laws created by corrupt politicians and idiot judges who are owned and operated by the SJW cause. The mindset that causes young adults to be kicked out of college or university for not toeing the line in Constitutionally forbidden PC speak and group-thought. The… Read more »
Scott Anderson
Guest
Scott Anderson
1 year 5 months ago

Thank you for saying it so well.

zealcub
Guest
zealcub
1 year 5 months ago

For anyone who doesn’t know what the Gamers Are Dead Articles are: http://wiki.gamergate.me/index.php?title=Gamers_Are_Dead

From what I, and most GamerGaters, have seen over the last few days the people you are opposing are following their normal plan of operations to the letter with this.
You criticized them and have shown the world for whom they are. They will try to drive you out of the industry and will try to ruin your lives.

trackback

[…] just posted a very justifiably angry post about how the media are portraying the Sad Puppies. I’ve been following them off and on for a while, and it’s no secret I disagree with them […]

Slime
Guest
Slime
1 year 5 months ago
Having read the “Not Your Shield” post on Hoyt’s blog, I think a fantastic idea would be blog posts highlighting the female/non-caucasian/LGBT people who were on the Sad Puppies slate and got nominated. Perhaps even let them say a little about themselves, perhaps including their political leanings. Then follow it up with: 1. quotes about how Sad Puppies is just a bunch of white straight men who hate diversity 2. attacks specifically made towards each of these female/non-caucasian/LGBT people because they were on the Sad Puppies slate (bonus points if the attacks claim the person is a different gender, race,… Read more »
KiTA
Guest
KiTA
1 year 5 months ago
I really suggest you look into GamerGate’s “Gamers are Dead” event. http://wiki.gamergate.me/index.php?title=Gamers_Are_Dead The parallels are eerie — a group of journalists (who we would later discover were colluding on a mailing list titled GameJournoPros) posted about 15 opinion pieces at or around the same across otherwise unconnected news outlets, all claiming that “Gamers are Dead” — that gamers were just sexist bigoted jerks mad about diversity. Well, you now have your own “Scifi Fans are Racist Bigots” event. It’s been kinda fun watching the reaction to Sad Puppies 3 and GamerGate. These people seem to be playing by the exact… Read more »
Davidisontherun
Guest
Davidisontherun
1 year 5 months ago

The literate don’t need to be your audience. Readers are over.

flyergrad
Guest
flyergrad
1 year 5 months ago
Dear Mr Correia, You have turned me into an activist! Yesterday, when I saw the EW article on FB, I made a comment that the author of the article was a bald-faced liar and that I wanted to see a retraction with apologies. The person who commented before me said something about Mr Torgersen’s lawyers; that they would having fun because of the libel in the article. I wish I has saved a screen shot because the article and comments were deleted (at least from the EW FB mobile feed). I do not even see a story revision there now.
Kristophr
Guest
Kristophr
1 year 5 months ago

Here you go:
https://archive.today/0NH1i

All stupid posted to the internets is forever.

les ismor
Guest
les ismor
1 year 5 months ago

In my humble opinion, this is all a very good thing. They can’t come to grips with the fact that the authors who were nominated, and their fans, are a very diverse group of people; that will be their eventual downfall.

Don’t get me wrong, the libel and unfounded (and ridiculous) claims are awful; but the fact is anyone can learn the truth simply by doing a little research. If some people don’t want to bother, or ignore inconvenient truths to continue in an attempt to push their own particular agenda, screw ’em. We don’t need those people anyway.

Demonix
Guest
Demonix
1 year 5 months ago

Hey, the slashdot article just links to the i09 stuff and doesn’t make any assumptions in the topic title. the comments seem to mostly reflect the idea that the SJWs have had something like this coming for a long time.

Rick67
Guest
Rick67
1 year 5 months ago

I agree. When I saw Larry mention Slashdot I thought, “Oh no, not them”, took a look and… it’s not much more than a rather neutral reference, and the very short post itself is almost pro-SP.

Eamon J. Cole
Guest
Eamon J. Cole
1 year 5 months ago

Mr. Correia,

For the small measure of worth it owns, amidst this shitstorm, thanks for shouldering this burden.

It’s good work you do.

StallChaser
Guest
StallChaser
1 year 5 months ago
I can’t help but to see the parallels between this and the “gamers are dead” saga of gamergate. It’s pretty much the same thing, with glorified bloggers circularly referencing themselves about how awful these people are for disagreeing with them. A few observations from having been involved in atheism (with atheism+), gamergate, and having seen the same thing play out multiple times before: Debate is a spectator sport. Don’t go in expecting to change your opponent’s minds. Your goal is to change the minds of neutral observers. Defend yourself, but don’t respond to attacks with attacks. Let it be self-evident… Read more »
holy13
Guest
holy13
1 year 5 months ago

There are interested parties who make a habit of archiving EVERYTHING.

https://archive.today/g5VaT#selection-1479.0-1479.45

Ken
Guest
Ken
1 year 5 months ago

Look at it this way; if everybody who voted for the Sad Puppies slate (that would include moi…) pays their $40 and votes next year, and the NEXT year, we could run the whole show and the SMOFs could take their marbles and skulk away.

You and Brad have done an invaluable service in showing how easily perverted the Hugo process is, and how easy it can be to un-pervert it. This is going to make science fiction FUN again!

As a 50-year fan, I thank you greatly!

Differently
Guest
Differently
1 year 5 months ago
If the Hugo awards become solely run by the Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies, then that is also a perversion of the Hugos. The Hugos are an award for all SFF fandom, and Sad Puppies, while quite possibly representing more of fandom, are not all of fandom. The purpose of Sad puppies (as I believe both Larry and Brad have said), is not to replace one set of tastemakers with another. There is plenty of good SFF that is unlikely to make it on the SP slate. The Sad Puppies slate has not included YA novels, to the best of… Read more »
James May
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

I can’t speak for anyone but what I suspect will happen is the slates from SP will grow increasingly complex. I think the overall point is they will be asking literary questions and not questions about race and gender predicated on the innate spiritual and moral failings of straight white men. Let’s be honest – anything’s better than empty stories racially and sexually pie-charted into play in tandem with a daffy progressive KKK.

Ashterah
Guest
Ashterah
1 year 5 months ago

This should always have been asking literary questions, and not if someone was the right race/gender etc. That’s what I hope SP has brought about.

ChicagoRefugee
Guest
ChicagoRefugee
1 year 5 months ago

But it’s not too late to vote for Sad Puppies this year!

Nominations are closed, true, but a $40 supporting membership to Sasquan still lets you help decide the winners – and next year’s nominees.

PavePusher
Guest
PavePusher
1 year 5 months ago
Larry, not only that, but apparently Brad owes an apology… for being TOO SUCCESSFUL. https://www.facebook.com/vanaaron.hughes/posts/647771745322832 Van Aaron Hughes I have no idea what you mean, Robert. LJLW suggested Brad didn’t realize how successful the Puppies would be at dominating the entire ballot. If that wasn’t his intention, then he should be offering a mea culpa and vowing not to do it again. Otherwise, LJLW’s assertion that Brad didn’t realize how well his scheme would work doesn’t mean anything to me. 2 hrs · Like .. Robert Ries I don’t understand. Why should anyone owe an apology for being more successful… Read more »
Faceh
Guest
Faceh
1 year 5 months ago
The Wicked Witch of the West has taken over the Emerald City and is running it from behind the curtain, with her army of screeching, shit-flinging monkeys at her beck and call to go after those who would unseat her. Now that Larry and others keep pulling back the curtain and exposing the truth of the illusion that is the Hugos, expect the screeching and shit-flinging to get worse. What do we have to do to get the bucket of water in play? I mean this seriously, what steps does it take to get these folks to shut up and… Read more »
Suburbanbanshee
Guest
Suburbanbanshee
1 year 5 months ago

I don’t even want these folks to shut up and go away. I just want them to start acting like normal, grownup fans who respect other people as people. I would like them to regain sanity and perspective.

We should pray for them. Once somebody gets as frenzied as some of these folks, it must be really difficult to take a deep breath, step back, and mend one’s ways.

flyergrad
Guest
flyergrad
1 year 5 months ago
You know, this campaign against SP3 seemed familiar to me and I remembered when Rush Limbaugh first went on the national airwaves. The same sort of crap was said about him as is being said about Mr Correia dn Mr Torgersen. Then I remember hearing about Saul Alinsky. Here are his “rules”: Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals. * RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” * RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” * RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy * RULE… Read more »
Book
Guest
Book
1 year 5 months ago

Sure does. And a very nice summary, too. Thank you for sharing that.

BlackBetty
Guest
BlackBetty
1 year 5 months ago

Hello All,

I’m a GamerGater. I didn’t know anything about this whole “Sad Puppy” affair until about a week ago when one of our guys started mentioning it. Now I used to read SciFi when I was a kid, so the mentions piqued my interest.

Now that the Hugo awards have been announced, the Haydens have suddenly invited us Gators to vote in it. I thought that was pretty gracious, but I’m still mistrustful of SJW’s. Is this invitation sincere?

Book
Guest
Book
1 year 5 months ago

That WAS so nice of them, wasn’t it? And the invitation is absolutely sincere- at least as far as we are concerned. I can’t speak for the Haydens… heh.

All we want is honest voting. If you read the books and prefer something not on the SP slate, then by all means, vote for it. We really do want GOOD books to win. Not just our personal favorites. (of course, personally I think our slate has the most talented work up there- but I’m a wee bit biased.)

Mary
Guest
Mary
1 year 5 months ago

Doesn’t matter. You can send in your money and then your ballot. (And nominate next year.)

They will shriek if they don’t get what they want but sincerity doesn’t matter.

keranih
Guest
keranih
1 year 5 months ago

Don’t need anybody to invite you. Supporting memberships are $40 this year, you get a big pack of finalist entries (so you can judge the nominations against each other) *and* you get to nominate for next year.

https://sasquan.swoc.us/sasquan/reg.php

We get enough people involved, maybeso we talk about a category for games. Or filks. Or whatever people-who-are-sff-fans do when they geek out. (Not sure how we could do cosplay, but surely we can figure something out…)

Farley
Guest
Farley
1 year 5 months ago

No, it’s sincere only to the extent that they want GG’ers involved because GG is one of their dog-whistles to rally the mob. And because the press releases they foisted out into the media claim GG is part of SP, and they need some actual evidence of that, when it’s precious thin on the ground.

Kevin R.C. O'Brien
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Not armbands, Larry. Little colored triangles.

trackback

[…] HIVEMIND: Media outlets make the same smear at the same time about Hugo nominations. […]

ProdigalSon
Guest
ProdigalSon
1 year 5 months ago

Check out this one. This is in my school’s newspaper today:

http://www.dailybarometer.com/forum/intolerant-hugo-awards-finalists-show-edginess-nazism/article_38b933cc-dcc3-11e4-ba78-cf0e9c3b34f3.html

This brilliant author is also renowned for his ability to logically equate ISIS and Protestant, middle class America. *snerk* Seriously. He did that once. It was hilarious, in a face-palm, “I-don’t-want-to-live-on-this-planet-anymore” sort of way.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 5 months ago

My high school newspaper (which I was a part of) had greater journalistic integrity than that.

Reziac
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Maybe I just haven’t been reading the right articles, but did it take this long for someone to Godwin the whole thing??! They’re getting slow.

James May
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

And the funny thing there is… who is mainstreaming hate speech?

Reziac
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Noticed that, did ya…

Luke
Guest
Luke
1 year 5 months ago

It’s GamerGate all over again. Hardly surprising at this point.

Kristophr
Guest
Kristophr
1 year 5 months ago

The only surprise is their shock at getting their heads torn off … again.

Mary
Guest
Mary
1 year 5 months ago

And now they are claiming that it just is GamerGate even though Sad Puppies is older than that.

Richard McEnroe
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

C’mon, the only real villain in progressive arts and entertainment is still the Nazi Party and its offshoots and it’s been what, sixty plus years? Pretty sure they can keep #GamerGate going at least that long… or until their Obamacare kills them.

Karmakin
Guest
Karmakin
1 year 5 months ago
So yeah. I just heard about all of this over the last few days, and I just want to throw in some words of support. I’m quite a leftist myself (Think a belief of sorts that technology is going to drastically reduce the amount of labor needed in our society and barring warp drives we’re going to need to learn to economically deal with it) and I’ve seen these things go down over the last few years. It really is about the cliquishness and tribalism. Anybody who is not in the tribe, it’s OK to dehumanize them in any way… Read more »
SDN
Guest
SDN
1 year 5 months ago

Believe it or not that worries some of us too. When the only thing people on an ever growing segment of the left side of the IQ bell curve have to trade for food and shelter is their votes in elections and bodies in riots, freedom will not last long.

Karmakin
Guest
Karmakin
1 year 5 months ago

It’s not just the left side of the IQ bell curve, often it can be the right side as well, especially as we move to a more and more regimented world, and the “McDonaldization” of the workforce continues.

codeGrit
Guest
codeGrit
1 year 5 months ago

So when do all the “SciFi readers do not have to be your audience!” articles drop? That’s the MO, after all.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik
1 year 5 months ago

If we were the evil bigoted monsters they say . . .

If we said and did all those evil things . . .

. . . Then why the unholy heck does the other side keep making things up? They should be able to point at all the awful things we’ve REALLY done and not have to lie and misrepresent constantly.

keranih
Guest
keranih
1 year 5 months ago

Dis.

Instead, all they got is Vox Day being horrible back to someone else being horrible to him. (God bless their hearts, digging into that mess is just for people with a scatology fetish.)

It should be *easy* to point to PROOF!

SDN
Guest
SDN
1 year 5 months ago

The very fact that they are still breathing means that either they are lying and know it or are terminally suicidal.

They don’t criticize Muslims precisely because they know that a significant percentage of them are evil and bigoted monsters whose reaction to someone insulting their beliefs is head removal, medieval style torture, and big explosions.

Let me know when some crazed Christianist pulls a Charlie Hebdo at EW.

Ironically, these morons, by refusing to leave those who haven’t responded with violence alone, are setting up an incentive system for Hell. /headdesk

Peter O
Guest
Peter O
1 year 5 months ago

Hey Larry,
Here’s a critical but reasonable commentary on the whole thing. Uses criticism of the Republican party, but as a concept of all groups of fandom.
http://www.pornokitsch.com/2015/04/justin-landon-on-the-hugo-awards-an-entity-at-war-with-itself-.html

While he is critical of the Sad Puppies, he doesn’t leave the CHORFS any escape, pointing out exactly how they have gamed the Hugos before now.

James May
Guest
1 year 5 months ago
Justin Landon doesn’t know jack shit. He writes about a “moral compass” as if he understands what an “absurd bigot curiosity” is while he supportively interviewed the absurdly curious N. K. Jemisin and Kate Elliott. In that Tor podcast Jemisin claimed the reason people are always recommending and reading epic fantasy like Brandon Sanderson, Joe Abercrombie, Rothfuss, Ericson, etc. is because it’s “comfort food fiction” because those readers are people raised on “media” which “embraces white male power fantasies… in which, y’know the white guys do everything” and “of course you’re going to want that in your fantasy fiction too.”… Read more »
James May
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Deirdre is a funny gal:

“Deirdre Saoirse Moen retweeted tejas @tejasjulia · Apr 5
I don’t know everyone on the Sad Puppies slate, but damn, I think I need sunglasses to deal with the blinding white glare. #AlsoAJockStrap”

That happens to SFF’s new KKK when a lot of Europeans are in a room – they wear racist goggles.

Alex
Guest
Alex
1 year 5 months ago

I’m betting Tor’s editorship and recommended writers would blind her. Hope she doesn’t look. Somehow, I doubt that will be an issue, though…

Guest
Dave W.
1 year 5 months ago

I just wish I could’ve seen the looks on the faces of EW’s corporate lawyers yesterday when they saw the hitpiece article in question. Can you say “sinking feeling”? I knew you could!

Eamon J. Cole
Guest
Eamon J. Cole
1 year 5 months ago
While it does have a more measured tone, and it acknowledges the multiple sides in the issue, after the EW smear I really can’t abide the continuation of the BS that SP is about white/male/conservative voices drowning out everything else. Justin Landon uses a more reasoned voice to perpetuate the same myths. His voice may be smooth, but his hands are still soiled from smearing the same shyte. They have created a movement around tearing down an institution because it does not share their moral compass. …the more recent full-court press to see more right-wing oriented white guys on the… Read more »
Eamon J. Cole
Guest
Eamon J. Cole
1 year 5 months ago

Damn thread fail. Tuck this under Peter O at 8:42 on the 7th of April.

Sheesh. I’ll endeavor to pay attention.

S1AL
Guest
S1AL
1 year 5 months ago

Yeah, how many people on the list are white + male + right-wing? Vox, Wright, Kratman and a couple of others?

S1AL
Guest
S1AL
1 year 5 months ago

Yes, I know Box has native blood. Based on my records that puts him approximately on par with me and Bradford. Not the point I’m making.

jay c
Guest
1 year 5 months ago
Brodder
Guest
Brodder
1 year 5 months ago

If we’re running an anti-diversity campaign, that has to mean that their side is running a Diversity campaign, doesn’t it?
Meaning that diversity is coming before the most important thing of all.
“IS IT A DAMN GOOD STORY?”
and
“Have I read it?”
Nothing else matters.

Carl "Bear" Bussjaeger
Guest
1 year 5 months ago
It’s