Monster Hunter Nation

Sad Puppies 3 Update

Last week we released the Sad Puppies suggestions. Predictably, that caused some outrage. Then I asked for people to help out by providing links showing how SJWs operate. More outrage. Then the Breitbart article came out. Wow. That was fun.

I’ve been seeing a lot of criticisms of Sad Puppies. Now, my original plan was to have our eloquent spokesmanatee, Wendell, do an in depth interview with respected news man, Brian Williams, but Williams backed out of the interview at the last minute for some reason.

Sick burn, dude.

Sick burn, dude.

So instead, I’ve thrown together some criticisms and narratives that the SJWs have been using and my brief response to each.

Sad Puppies represents the “Fringe” and “bigots with crazy beliefs”.  

Wait… Did my people nominate Requires Hate or a guy who publically supports NAMBLA while I wasn’t looking? Oh wait… That was the GOOD SIDE.

File 770 has written a lot about how Larry Correia is the worst person ever.

Headline: Man with 28 Hugo nominations thinks the system is perfectly fine.

Some people put on the Sad Puppies suggested slate have removed themselves.

Yes. This isn’t surprising. Considering the heat and concern trolling many of the suggested authors have been getting, I’m surprised it has only been a few.

If you’ll note, despite the allegations to the contrary, our suggestions are politically diverse. Of the ones who have dropped out, I do believe they have all been liberals.

We made an effort to contact everyone we put on beforehand to warn them what was coming. Apparently we missed two of these. One was added the day we put up the suggestions because a couple of posters pointed them out, and they truly are excellent and talented, but we’d forgotten about them during our initial brainstorming.

I can’t blame them for dropping out. And none of you should either. The ELoE talked about this a lot before putting together a slate. They have all personally experienced what happens when you draw the SJW contingent’s wrath. It isn’t pretty.

And we’ve already replaced them. Here is the updated slate of suggestions: https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/02/01/sad-puppies-3-the-2015-hugo-slate/

Privilege!  

Says a SJW who grew up in the suburbs, and attended some of the most expensive schools in America, to the guy who grew up milking cows, and worked his way through Utah State, unironically.

Puppies are color blind. (No… really, come to think of it they are!)

We don’t care who you are or where you came from, as long as your writing is awesome.

 

Log Rolling! Vote Buying! Ballot Stuffing! Sock Puppets! Taxidermy!

Okay, I made up that last one to see if you were paying attention.

Nope, sorry. They’re actual fans who ponied up some money to vote. They’re just the wrong kinds of fans.

 

Sad Puppies supporters registering in record numbers.

Sad Puppies supporters registering in record numbers.

Sad Puppies is all about mumble mumble racism.

Nope. We’re not about excluding anybody. That’s them. We’re about including more people.

Oh yeah! Vox Day is literally Hitler Satan!

He’s not even on the Sad Puppies slate this year, but he still lives rent free in their heads.

Last year I liked a story written by a guy SJWs think is racist. Could a comment made a few years ago by Vox Day to Nora Jemisin be seen as racist? Yep. Has Nora Jemisin said a whole bunch of racist things herself leading up to that and then a bunch after? Yep.

So, to attempt to put this into SJW terms, did a Person of Color (man, I hate that stupid term) aggress against another Person of Color who was also committing aggressions? I think so, but I got an accounting degree instead of gender studies, so I’m not sure.

Have the SJWs ever nominated individuals who have said or done controversial things for prestigious awards? Ha!

Have far worse and more insulting things been said about people like me or Sarah Hoyt by beloved Social Justice Warriors, with zero condemnation from their side? Oh hell yeah. But double standards are cool.

In reality, Sad Puppies don’t give a crap about what box an author checks. We care if they entertain us.

Damien Walter said Larry Correia just needs a hug.

Uh… Hugged by a confused “lonely Brit” who moved to Thailand searching for someone to love him? Naw. I’m cool. Thanks.

Larry Correia *claims* to be speaking to reporters!

I don’t know why it was so far-fetched for them to think that I was actually talking to reporters since Sad Puppies 2 got mentioned in the USA Today.

He’s gathering SJW names! Persecution!

I’d already sent a bunch of information on to the Breitbart guys to look into last week, and the only reason I posted was to gather more links showing how the run of the mill SJWs behaved. (feel free to go through them if you want to decide for yourself).

But even when they knew I was collecting quotes, they couldn’t help but provide more.

Okay, so there was a news report about Sad Puppies, but Breitbart isn’t a *real* media outlet.  

Oh man, hopefully someday I’ll be able to break out huge and get in Salon or the HuffPo!

I like exposing bullies. SJWs operate by accusing their ideological opponents of all sorts of horrible things. The accusations are usually crap, but people are scared of being accused. Bullies are only powerful when nobody challenges them. Expose them, and their endless accusations lose strength.

So the SJWs will dismiss this article, but in truth they’re terrified of being exposed. As their accusations lose power more authors say to themselves screw the thought police, I’m going to write what I want. Then somebody somewhere might be having fun wrong, and SJWs can’t abide that.

My favorite part was seeing a former SFWA president in the comment section praising the article and agreeing about the importance of defending free speech.

This is all about Correia’s huge ego and his personal desire to win a Hugo.

Which is why I tried to back out, and when the ELoE outvoted me, we still made sure to suggest me up against some of the best writers alive, including one of the most popular authors on Earth and what is probably his single best book.

Seriously, guys, nominate Jim Butcher. (Hell, I’m voting for Butcher first!)  The fact that he’s been ignored by the Hugos all this time is telling. I’m not joking. The man writes circles around most of the usual nominees. Gannon, Kloos, and Anderson also have amazing books in there. All are remarkable authors. Read the books and decide for yourself.

You should work within the system. The Sad Puppies method of asking outsiders to get involved is uncouth and barbaric.

Funny how that works, isn’t it?

Get them in a private conversation and most authors will admit that the Hugos are broken. Some are cool with it because it is broken in their favor. Others won’t say anything because they didn’t think there was anything they could do about it, and they knew the first group would make their lives miserable if they tried. So things stay the same or get increasingly asinine. Then when somebody does try to do something, they’ve rocked the boat, and are bad.

I noted that both Elizabeth Moon and David Gerrold both commented last week about the badness of Sad Puppies. That’s great. We are political polar opposites, but I think they’re talented and I’ve enjoyed works from both of them.

Here’s the thing. Whether you think what I’m doing is horrible or not, it has actually drawn attention to the same clique of rabid types that actively attacked both of you. Signing a petition for free speech is great. What happened next? They dismissed you as old, white, racist, neo-cons and went back to scaring the shit out of all the authors who don’t have entrenched established careers.

So you might not like me or my friends coloring outside the lines, but we actually believe in free speech, freedom of artistic expression, and not sabotaging the careers of the people who disagree with us. So if that means we need to flip over some tables at the country club, so be it.

Fandom is inclusive! So we have to exclude you!

I’m trying to think of how to explain this one, but I’ve been seeing it pop up a lot. On one hand, Fandom (as in the crowd that votes for the Hugos) claims to be all inclusive, but on the other hand, some of them get very upset when a new group of people who are also fans show up and participate. Because they’re the wrong kind of fans.

I’ve even seen some of these people go so far as to admit that the Hugo is actually a popularity contest just for them, which is why we are bad for meddling in their club. Okay. I can actually respect that, because at least it is honest.

However, considering it was me saying exactly that a few years ago that started all this. I went to the Hugos and came out saying it was a biased popularity contest for one little clique, and I was condemned for it, because the Hugos are all about quality, and art, and greatness, and represent all of fandom and sunshine and happiness.

I said nope, let me show you how it really is, and that’s what brings us to where we are today.

Now, voting for quality art is still true for many of the regular voters, and they take it very seriously. In fact, they cherish it and consider voting honestly a responsibility. I’ve got nothing but respect for them. I can even understand them seeing something like Sad Puppies as offensive, uncouth, even vulgar. And I can appreciate that.

But get them in private and start going through some of the message ridden dreck and see what they think. Most of these people have better things to do than to collaborate and nominate in blocks. So when the finals roll around they get to choose between Angsty Message Fic 1 and Angsty Message Fic 2. They’re not outnumbered by SJWs, but they’ve certainly been outmaneuvered.

We’re doing the same thing the SJWs have been doing for years. The difference is that it is safe to condemn the Sad Puppies contingent. We’re not going to sabotage their careers or slander them.

Sad Puppies wants to burn it all down.

Not really. Maybe that’s true for some of us, but let me give you a peek behind the curtain. We all have our different motivations. We don’t march in ideological lockstep.

I’ve explained my reasons repeatedly. When one of their beloved leaders called me Mr. Free Speech At All Costs they meant it as an insult. I took it as a compliment. I proved my point last year about the bias and was happy to walk away.

Brad Torgersen on the other hand is an idealist. He bleeds geek. He wants the Hugos to mean something again. He wants them to be special, and for the general reading public to look at them and say “Award Winning? Holy moly, then it must be good!” Brad wants the Hugos to be relevant to everyone. He dragged me back into this because he thinks Sad Puppies can actually make a difference.

As the mushy moderate of the Evil Legion of Evil, he’s like a Druid, trying to bring balance back to nature or something.

Here is a good article from Brad:

https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/02/07/sad-puppies-some-responses-to-the-fallout/

EDIT: to add, Sarah went and did another meme post. 🙂

http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/02/09/when-duck-noises-fail-me/

 

 

Sad Puppies 3 Update 2.1 Addendum to Prior Update
Breitbart Reports on Sad Puppies
John C Wright
Guest

And all this time, I thought this was about a massive ego boost for *me* so that *I* could win a Hugo!!

Actually, I am torn between MONSTER HUNTER and SKIN GAME. I can say for sure I will not be voting for ANCILLARY SOCIAL-JUSTICE PRONOUN or whatever that book is.

Tarl
Guest

If you had more LGBT Dinosaurs Of Color in your books, you’d have the Hugo in the bag for sure…

John C Wright
Guest

But what about my famous story TRANNY-SAURUS of GOR MEETS THE WOLFPERSON? It is my re-imagining of the King Arthur myth where all the Knights of the Round Table are Lesbian Were-Seals, and Gwen is hot for Morgan le Fay. In space!! I thought for sure that would win!!! And my elves are different!!!!

Keith Glass
Guest

Well, unless the LGBTOMGBBQ! Dinosaur of Color was a Purple Molestoraptor.

Not even SJWs like B’harneii the Destroyer, and his awful Wail of Ensnarement. . . .

Tarl
Guest

These are all stories that desperately need writing!

If John Cleve can crank out 20 books a year, surely you gentlemen can produce something of equally high quality (though appealing to the sensitive tastes of the SJW crowd) in your copious free time!

Tarl
Guest

A real artist could mock them while making them think he was appeasing them.

To this day, multitudes of folk don’t realize what Trevanian was up to…

lobo314
Guest

Okay John C Wright. Trannysaurus of Gor meets the Wolfperson? *shudder* oh my dear fluffy lord the visual makes me want to hurl man! Have you empathy? I just got OVER being hurling puking sick this weekend and you wanna send me back to worship at the porcelain alter? Bad Mr Wright. Baaaaaaaaaad.

John C Wright
Guest

To lobo314,
Have I “empathy”? Why, I did read about that word in a history book once. It is a human emotion that was removed from my species many generations ago, thanks to advances in eugenics and neuropharmacology. This is why, when we abandon our dying planet, your lush and green world will be ripe for the plucking!

We would have picked Venus, which has an environment more similar to ours, but that Dinosaur story really pissed off The Supreme Intelligence, who decreed it was worse than Vogon poetry, so now you earthlings are in for it.

Michael Kingswood
Guest

“I could either write a SJW appeasing book under a pseudonym or paint more minis… Hmmm… Gonna have to go with minis.”

There’s an angle you’re missing, Larry.

So it gets written under a super-secret pseudonym that never gets revealed. It gets nominated and then wins the Hugo.

And then out steps the INTERNATIONAL LORD OF HATE to receive the award, wearing an uber-evil grin.

Heads would literally explode. Might be worth it for the entertainment value. 😉

dylantc
Guest

Dear John C Wright
Your Supreme Intelligence has not watched enough classic Twilight Zone episodes. The last time anyone tried anything, we sent their fleet back to Mars with their 3rd arms behind their backs. And if you even think you have a chance against the Home Fleet, bring it. Our third eyes are watching you….. buuuuaw aha ahahah HAH HAH

warpcordova
Guest

John: I’m not torn. I liked NEMESIS, but SKIN GAME… holy crap, that was the best thing I’ve read of Butcher’s since TURN COAT. I haven’t read the sequel to ANCILLARY SOCIAL-JUSTICE PRONOUN yet because I had such a difficult time getting through the first one.

By the by, I never did thank you for writing CITY BEYOND TIME. I loved it.

John C Wright
Guest

Thank you for your kind words.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Turn Coat is the one I’ll be reading soon. (Yes, I’m behind. Have you seen my bookshelves? Rhetorical, of course.)

warpcordova
Guest

You’ll like it. Up to this point Harry was just… Harry, you know? Turn Coat turns him into a Force to be Reckoned With, but still Harry.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Thanks. Hopefully this is the year I catch up to the “present” of the series.

chris
Guest

Turn Coat is good, Changes was better.

Not just a Force To Be Reckoned With- But a PISSED OFF FTBRW

saintonge235
Guest

Yeah, MHN and SG are both great. I REread both withing a short time of them coming out. I’m not sure which I’ll vote number one, but they’ll probably beat out any others.

TomT
Guest

MH:N is fantastic but SKIN GAME ROCKS THE SHELVES!!!! 😉 Basically both are fantastic but I’m with Larry on this and think Skin Game is Butchers best Dresden book to date.

Julie Pascal
Guest

I’ve read a few Dresden books (haven’t read more mostly because I am never sure which ones I need and which would be dupicates) so… how does Skin Game go if you’re half the series behind? Does it stand alone well?

Jared
Guest

Phew. That’s a tough one.

It does, but at the same time some of the themes and set up for the main plot happen many books before Skin Game. There is also a massive shift in the status quo three books previous that takes until the end of Skin Game to shake out. (Mostly, some stuff is still up in the air)

Which books have you read? If we start with that we could probably make a list of which ones you should read and which you can just read the plot summary at the appropriate point.

60guilders
Guest

Necessary: Changes, Ghost Story, and Cold Days before Skin Game.

Jared
Guest

I dunno, Small Favor might warrant inclusion in that list too.

Jared
Guest

And without White Night…

Julie Pascal
Guest
“Which books have you read” is the problem. 🙂 But! I got a S5 phone for Christmas and I fully intend to make some inventory lists on Google Drive that include “books you own by author” and “authors to avoid” (there are a couple of romance authors that are stinkers and I keep on buying their books by accident.) Then when I’m at the book store or even just browsing Nook or Kindle I don’t have to try to remember by trying to think if the cover art looks familiar. Anyhow… THANK YOU for the list of books it’s good… Read more »
Jared
Guest

Yeah. Stick with 60’s list, then go back and read them all when you have time. The first couple are shakier, but only because they were his first novels.

Basically every single book he puts out is a little bit better than the last.

T.L. Knighton
Guest
Any fan award is, ultimately, a popularity contest. I find it telling that book that are actually popular aren’t winning or even being nominated. Brad’s a great guy, and I hope Sad Puppies doesn’t get as much mud slung at him as it did at you, but he’ll handle it if it does. He may be the Care Bear of the ELoE, but he does pack a flamethrower. Honestly, I just can’t the Hugo’s seriously, and those people screaming about Sad Puppies don’t seem to get that it’s not because “my kind” of stories aren’t winning, but because popular stories… Read more »
Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

I’d say SP has the best chance of getting Butcher on the ballot. He might stand a chance because of his huge fanbase, but it’s more likely the Ancillary sequel will sweep everything this year, just like the first one.

Nathan
Guest

Not sure I agree that the Ancillary sequel will win. There hasn’t been much buzz about it that I’ve seen. it appears to have fallen to the sophomore curse. Even then, it’s a sequel and the Hugos generally hate.

My guess is either Lock In or Kameron Hurley’s Mirror Empires. Maybe even The Three Body Problem

James May
Guest

Hurley’s a lock.

Tarl
Guest

So, to attempt to put this into SJW terms, did a Person of Color (man, I hate that stupid term) aggress against another Person of Color who was also committing aggressions?

Vox’s POC status – and yours – don’t count because badthink.

Elizabeth Warren and Bill Clinton get POC status because goodthink.

So there!

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Well, if Sad Puppies is “ballot stuffing”, does that mean they’ll go after Scalzi for his similar efforts to mobilize his fanbase for the Hugos?

Didn’t think so.

MosesZD
Guest

SJW mantra — It’s ok when we do it…

Tarl
Guest

And you did it first. Or you were thinking about it. So that makes it right. So there!

MosesZD
Guest

I pretty much ignore the Hugos’ now. It was already, IMO, a bit of a ‘name recognition’ popularity contest in the past., But it’s now broken when people are included/excluded on things that have little-to-nothing to do with their writing and everything to do with group-think and political correctness.

Mike
Guest
I can see how the initial campaign came across as gauche and “vote for me!” I think it was gauche when Scalzi did it, too. But as simply a way to get more of fandom interested and voting on the Hugos, I’m all for it. I love your work, but wouldn’t consider any of it Hugo-worthy (OTOH, I wouldn’t exactly vote for Redshirts, either, so maybe I need to readjust my definition). But SAD puppies totally convinced me to get a voting packet and to read all of the awesome fiction on it this year and every year. It’s great… Read more »
Tarl
Guest

Not Hugo-worthy? Bah! The Monster Hunter books and Grimnoirs are as good as any Hugo winner, ever.

Look at the winners from before 1980. They’re not Message Fiction. They are entertainment. When you read Monster Hunter, are you not entertained?

Mike
Guest
Honestly, when I think Hugo, I think Starship Troopers, Man in the High Castle, Dune, Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Slaughterhouse Five. I think books that have great stories and ideas, but *also* make you think a bit. Books that tread the boundary between Sci Fi and literary writing. Warbound is *awesome* fun, but it’s still pulp. Great, enjoyable, blowing up ninjas in pirate ships pulp… but not the same rarified air, in my obviously not very humble opinion. Sorry for the insult of saying you aren’t Robert Heinlein, Larry 🙂 I hope someday I can also be not Heinlein.… Read more »
Tarl
Guest

The idea of ninjas fighting magic users on top of a zeppelin is not thought provoking? Or Satan attacking Washington DC? Certainly made me think — in the latter case, I was thinking, “why doesn’t that hurry up and happen already?”

Look at the list of winners. There is plenty of pulp on there.

Wendy
Guest

Frankly, I’m tired of stories that “make me think”. After 40 years of reading anything I can get my hands on, I’ve seen it all and I don’t need lectures or lessons. Just entertain me, dammit!

snelson134
Guest

“Satan attacking Washington DC?”

Isn’t that sort of the dictionary definition of blue-on-blue?

Wes S.
Guest

“Satan attacking Washington,DC?” Hell, from all available evidence he’s already taken it over, and without even firing a shot.

Shawna
Guest
Personally, I’m not sure how many nominations I’ll end up submitting. If I only nominated the stuff that I really thought was amazing and practically perfect from the past year, my list would consist only of Skin Game and Guardians of the Galaxy (and probably something from Patricia Briggs’s anthology). (I’ll probably nominate more than that, but I really doubt I’ll fill out all the categories.) I’m actually way more interested in voting for the best of five (or however many) in a category than trying to say which of all works published in a year are worthy of awards.… Read more »
Mike
Guest

I’m in the same boat. I don’t read anywhere close to enough books that come out in the year to have an honest opinion on which is best for nominations — but I’m going to be dutiful in looking at all the finalists and casting my vote.

richard mcenroe (@richard_mcenroe)
Guest

“The Sad Puppies method of asking outsiders to get involved is uncouth and barbaric.”

Strange, that used to be called “community organizing” or a “public service announcement” (“Give a Hoot, Don’t SJW!”…”needs work, Smoky.”)

Tarl
Guest

When we do it, it is community organizing, when you do it, it is fascism.

gnardopolo
Guest

Larry, you are the Andrew Breitbart of the SFF crowd. May your empire grow as large as his.

Mike M.
Guest

I got my membership because of SP2 last year… this is awesome, keep it up. The more people voting on Hugos the better – no two ways about it.

David Witek
Guest

This reminds me of The Big Bang Theory when they were all hanging out at Raj’s appartment because Leonard was dating Raj’s sister. Sheldon decided to invite other people over and it was a disaster for him. Why?
“They were having fun wrong.”

Tradain liMarchborg
Guest

Jemisin said “I don’t feel safe in Australia.” Vox said “we simply do not view her as being fully civilized for the obvious historical reason that she is not.”

James May
Guest

We would a woman feel safe who’s had her career “strangled” by getting 4 Nebula nominations right out of the gate? White cis-people are like Triffids: they spit slime in your eyes and then strangle you.

warpcordova
Guest

I’ve been to Australia. I don’t feel safe there. Did you know that EVERYTHING there can kill you? Even the cute koalas!!!

warpcordova
Guest

The only think saving Australians from being overrun by murderous teddy bears is that the bears are too stoned to do anything. Think about it. It doesn’t kill you because it is higher than a kite.

T.L. Knighton
Guest

Plus, Australia restricts guns to the point that you’re not going to get one just to walk around with and shoot all these things that will try and kill ya!

warpcordova
Guest

For some reason they think that an unarmed populace is safe from these murderous dropbears!

T.L. Knighton
Guest

And I’d argue it’s impossible to be sufficiently armed for these murderous dropbears!

warpcordova
Guest

I hear that RPG’s work against them, but it has to be from range.

T.L. Knighton
Guest

Yeah, but if they swarm, will you have time to reload it before your position is overrun?

snelson134
Guest

“I hear that RPG’s work against them”

But which one? AD&D 3.5 or Champions?

Joe in PNG
Guest

I understand that the entire list of harmless Australian animals is “Some of the sheep”.

T.L. Knighton
Guest

Only until they evolve into something far more deadly.

I give it about three more weeks or so.

Shawna
Guest

Even the sky wants to kill you, what with that hole in the ozone layer.

Patrick Chester
Guest

“They cut the power!” “What do you mean ‘They cut the power’?! They’re ANIMALS!!!”

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Head’s up, Larry: “Tradain” here is almost certainly Clamps.

pavepusher
Guest

“Molestoraptor”…. OMG. Can’t. Stop. Laughing.

Stolen.

This… THIS…. is why I love this crowd.

av willis
Guest

It’s a close relative to a sexual tyrannosaurus with a lower chance of becoming the governor of Minnesota

James May
Guest

“We want to destroy patriarchal power at its source, the family” and also “Children are fully capable of participating in community, and have every right to live out their own erotic impulses.” – Andrea Dworkin

Molesto-feminism. Add in as iconic a gender abolition feminist there is joining a children’s rights pedophile movement – Simone de Beauvoir

TomT
Guest

Isn’t Marrion Zimmer Bradley thrown off her pedistal and put in a dark corner now for exactly that kind of thing? Or at least turning a blind eye to it?

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

Read the testimony.

The most plausible explanation is that she was, and that her lesbian lover, who survived her and was the sole heir of her literary rights, either knew or worked very hard not to know.

Tying up a kid that age and threatening them with pliers has no legitimate role in parenting.

Failure to realize and act on that at best stinks. Assuming that wasn’t something she saw as less damaging to say to serve as a cover story.

There are strong indications that some pretty foul things happened.

Robert Juliano
Guest

Okay…Everybody please stop this for a moment…

I’m very triggered that I’ve run out of beer and chips

Joshua
Guest

I know part of the point of Sad Puppies is not to care about the political inclinations of the author… but is Butcher a leftist? I know he seems careful to come across as apolitical publicly, but certain beats (like his very sympathetic portrayal of the Catholic Church, for example) make me wonder.

Either way, he seems like a nice, down-to-earth guy.

trackback

[…] season of SAD PUPPIES. I was going to type up a very looooooooong rebuttal to the straw men, but Larry Correia and Sarah Hoyt already did the heavy lifting for me. Much of what I might have said, they say with […]

Wallbanger7110
Guest

YES! I can now access Wendell’s wisdom on Twitter whenever I feel like it! #WendellsWisdom #meewhooo #hooon

David Krumm
Guest
While I have enjoyed the controversy of Sad Puppies it’s purely as a spectator. The last time I cared about an award it was the Newbery Medal of Honor(1) and I was a gradeschooler hanging out in the library while my mother did other things. EVEN THEN I knew that all the other awards meant the book was old(2), or slow, or in some other way un-fun. The intervening decades haven’t change my view at all. If anything, they’ve strengthened it. Stamping laurel leaves on the jewel case of your DVD is about as likely to get me to watch… Read more »
Anthony
Guest

Speaking of kids books and awards, if there’s a dog and a book award on the cover, the dog dies. (I’m told by friends that the book is pretty good, but I’ve only read previews.)

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

I’ve read and enjoyed a lot of Korman over the years. I can’t recall if I read that one, but it sounds vaguely familiar.

Joel Salomon
Guest

I read No More Dead Dogs as a kid and loved it.

saintonge235
Guest

I read No More Dead Dogs as an adult, and loved it.

David Krumm
Guest

lol – but how did Korman really feel about Old Yeller? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathByNewberyMedal

junior
Guest

It’s not just dogs. There’s something referred to as the Newbury Curse, which refers to the tendency of Newbury award-winning books to have at least one tragic death.

dgarsys
Guest

Still not sure how any of Susan Cooper’s “Dark is Rising” books ended up as Newbery Medal or Honor award winners – I loved them….

Cheese Sammich
Guest

I’ve honestly given up on the hugos. I view this as the last death spasm of something that used to be real, and is now nothing more than a shell game and masturbatory fest for the SJW crowd. My current view on awards in general is that if it’s been nominated for an award, it’s probably crap. If it’s recieved an award, it’s crap for certain. Makes for a convenient filtration process.

Luke
Guest

The downside is that many people get into reading SFF at their local library.
And “nominated for an award/received a reward” is a handy filter for librarians to use. Especially those who don’t read SFF themselves.

THAT is why you should care. The mainstream is being pushed out by the marginal.

Jared
Guest

Personally I haven’t found that to be the case – Despite winning last year Ancillary Justice doesn’t have all that many copies in my system.

Granted, we are large enough that the librarian picking the Sci-Fi books does know what she’s doing, and we’re also large enough that we get some of pretty much all the major publishers books, but either way, Hugo nods don’t seem to do much in my system.

In smaller ones? Maybe. But there are also a lot of librarians who don’t even know what the Hugo’s are.

A. Nagy
Guest
This nobody had Ancillary Justice when I looked for it in multiple bookstores I had to order it online, this was after it already won a few awards and I was still excited for it, the premise is really cool to me. Bookstores don’t give a crap about award winners they just follow what the big publishers tell them to do, and the best seller lists(which is why I think that books-a-million/borders/B&N all have pretty much the exact same books. I’m not sure how libraries stock I think they all have their own system the one locally has a terrible… Read more »
tariencole
Guest

Reblogged this on The Worlds of Tarien Cole and commented:
Don’t worry Larry, the fact that Jim Butcher hasn’t been nominated about 8 times over baffles me. So you bet I’m going for Skin Game, which is perhaps the 2nd best of the entire Dresdencrack series (behind only Dead Beat).

RightWingProf
Guest

Can we have a short comic of Wendell vs the Molestoraptor? I’d pay for that.

Wayne Blackburn
Guest

That would be great.

Wes S.
Guest

Sounds like a preview of this year’s installment of “The Christmans Noun.”

😛

Guess
Guest

Larry.. If you get nominated, will you go to worldcon? I think the only way to get included is to go and sit on panels. If your fans see you go more might attend. The people who put on worldcon are not paid. I dont think they are attacking you. Also i think worldcon is more of a scifi con then a fantasy con. It would be nice if more fantasy authors showed up and raised exposure. Most people who attend just want to have fun.

Dont mean to come off preachy. If i do i apologize.

AndrewV
Guest

I’d love to see Larry attend Worldcon. Of course if he did he’d probably get the Royal Ross Welcome and SJW attendence would plummet. Or they would SWAT his hotel room in an effort to have their space made ‘safe’.

James May
Guest

I am re-nominating “We Have Always Never Fought” because Cis Meeewoo Hooooons are fuxing nutsaxxer het-racists and with the normative already plus 50% more privileged.

Leit
Guest

GBFM, is that you? 😛

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Twitter crap:

“Matt Wallace ‏@MattFnWallace · 1h1 hour ago
@NMamatas @Keffy Larry Correia and Vox Day are locked in a room. Between them: one Hugo, one knife, and a copy of both their obituaries. GO.”

Once again: Vox is NOT on the ballot. And remember, we’re the dangerous nuts for peacefully trying to change the Hugo, but people who post veiled death threats on Twitter are blameless angels.

T.L. Knighton
Guest

That’s because their ends totally justifies the means.

However, since our ends are evil, no means are acceptable.

James May
Guest

Anyone who knows who Mamatas and Keffy are knows they’ve stumbled onto a penguin colony of self-pity.

kamas716
Guest

If you lock Larry and Vox in a room, I’m expecting a whole lot of brainstorming and some civil discourse. The knife might be used to unlock the door so the pizza could arrive.

Shawna
Guest

You seem to forget that, to the radical left, any potentially lethal weapon *will* immediately be used to murder someone.

Patrick Chester
Guest

@Shawna: Yet it’s the other people who are potential homicidal maniacs?! 😮

Achillea
Guest

The problem for leftista twits like Keffy and Matt is that they’ve convinced themselves that the Hugo is some sort of Holy of Holies. The members of the ELoE thrash them in every other author metric, and the Hugo is the only hope they have left of validating their overweening self-regard. The thought that wrongthinkers might not consider obtaining it a war-to-the-knife matter is simply inconceivable. Because if getting a Hugo isn’t that important, then the insidious doubt begins to sneak in that maybe it doesn’t mean that much after all.

Kevin Findley
Guest

You’re right. The Hugo is their ‘precious’.

James May
Guest
“Just F-ing Keftastic ‏@Keffy Oct 12 . @ActsofAndrewB Oh, we could make a list of white dudes who are *still alive* that people defend the careers of despite doing awful shit.” “K Tempest Bradford retweeted Just F-ing Keftastic @Keffy · 15h 15 hours ago Day 3, same question: If RH (Requires Only That You Hate) deserves blacklist, when will the same standard be applied to famous white men in SF/F? How about the rapists?” “Just F-ing Keftastic ‏@Keffy Oct 12 . @ActsofAndrewB The big difference is that no matter what a white guy says or does, the world is devoted… Read more »
T.L. Knighton
Guest

First, who are these “rapists” they’re talking about?

Second, it wasn’t anyone on this side of the aisle calling for Requires Hate to be blacklisted. None of us were interested in reading her crap in the first place though, so that’s hardly surprising. It’s worth noting that we don’t want anyone blacklisted. We just want diversity of opinions and voices.

T.L. Knighton
Guest
Yeah, I thought about MZB, but obviously they’re not talking about her, because the accusations against her are a vicious right wing plot or something. (No, I haven’t seen anyone make that argument, but the way lefties seem to be ignoring the accusations against her, there has to be a reason) And I don’t know of any formal accusations against Delany, besides being creepy as hell for supporting NAMBLA and writing Hog, which makes him even more creepy but has been public knowledge long enough that they can’t be talking about him. I mean, I’m genuinely confused who they’re talking… Read more »
James May
Guest

Those Tweets above are a pitch perfect example of the divide in SFF. Can anyone spot the liberal vs. conservative or Marxism vs. capitalism in them? It has nothing to do with that. This is KKK shit. Same horse, different color. They hide behind liberal vs. conservative because of just that idea – they can hide.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

John Scalzi? The man who found it convenient, at one point, to claim to be rapist.

T.L. Knighton
Guest

Oh, is THAT the rapist they were talking about?

In that case, they don’t need to worry. I don’t buy his books anymore, but mostly because he made it clear he has an issue with folks like me. Didn’t know he described himself as a rapist.

Feather Blade
Guest

Did it never occur to this guy that if those two were inclined to fight, the Hugo itself would be used as a weapon?

Honestly. No imagination whatsoever.

Murphy7
Guest

Sell the Hugo on eBay? When you could make so more to fight Manatee Cancer by another funraiser where you shoot things and the bloody trophy Hugo as the main attraction?

Oh, the possibilities.

Andrew
Guest

I’m looking forward to the argument that the Hugos are too politicized, and must be divorced from popular vote in order to preserve their integrity.

I say looking forward, but I’m sure someone has already proposed it.

James May
Guest
Moon got put on the rack and has since repented of her sins. She now boils her rice the Catholic way, not the Hindoostani way. What’s the chances a person who wants to “de-Jew” their reading library is going to vote for a Jew? What’s the chances a person who happily Tweeted no Arabs won a Nebula is going to vote for an Arab? What’s the chances a person who believes Latinos erased them from history will vote for a Latino? What’s the chances a straight reviews editor who believes gays should come with trigger warnings for arrogance will vote… Read more »
Eccentric Cowboy
Guest
I’m sure this will get buried under all of the other awesome comments here, but I’ll sleep better putting it out here in the open. 🙂 I’ve been sharing the Sad Puppies and fisk articles with a good friend of mine and it’s done wonders to restore her confidence in her own writing. She was terrified to cross the SJWs and their wrath, while her dad was constantly browbeated by relatives. But your example Mr. Correia has been a beacon for my friend and myself! Can’t thank you enough for being a cismale genderconformative fascist blah blah blah, Lord of… Read more »
Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Thanks for sharing that. You’re not alone. 🙂

Julie Pascal
Guest

Come to the dark side, we have cookies. 🙂

Honest to… puppies. They can only hurt you if you give them the power to do so.

Eccentric Cowboy
Guest

Cookies? Yay! Count me in! 😀
And I only just realized I messed up one of my sentences up there with “browbeated.” Self-criticism for the win. XD

T.L. Knighton
Guest
When the whole Requires Hate thing blew up, I pointed out how the accusations she threw around worked on SJWs because they were terrified of being labeled, while us on this side of the fence know we’re not whatever -ist they’re throwing around at us so we blow them off. Of course, a SJW showed up and tried to progsplain to me how it works by trying to suggest that I’d be mortified if something I wrote was labeled “liberal”. Laughter doesn’t really translate through the internet, which is exactly what my initial reaction was. He never did get that… Read more »
snelson134
Guest

” They can only hurt you if you give them the power to do so.”

Ummm. Maybe we should ask Brandon Eich about that?

As long as we have a legal system that allows for the concepts of “hate speech”, “hostile environment” harassment suits, and non-prosecution of false claims, the SJWs have all the tools they need to hurt anyone — a lot.

Julie Pascal
Guest

Point, snelson.

And people who are fearful are not irrational. They have good reason to be cautious because people WILL try to destroy them. I’d suggest, though, that there really is a rather large “support” network that doesn’t give a fig, that doesn’t demand lock step, AND there are alternatives in publishing these days that never existed before.

“You can’t stop the signal, Mal.”

trackback

[…] anyone tries to crack the soundproofing, destroy them.  Dox them, SWAT them if need be.  If they show up on the Sad Puppies list? Rip them apart!   “They’re hate mongers! […]

richard mcenroe (@richard_mcenroe)
Guest
I attended a redistricting hearing in California a couple years back where David Gerrold spoke up against the San Francisco/Sacramento plan in favor of the one the local communities actually wanted. Then sat silently as the arrogant functionaries told us all we’d be getting the San Francisco/Sacramento-originated plan whether we liked it or not because they knew better. Which is which my then Congressman’s district headquarters remained in Malibu by the shore, while his constituents lived in the San Fernando valley on the other side of a mountain range. People like David and Elizabeth Moon don’t get that they may… Read more »
Mike Glyer
Guest

Disqualify, disqualify, disqualify! And to think, you used to to disdain these tactics, too.

No wonder you won’t engage — an advocate of Sad Puppies has no counter to someone who says people should have read the things these nominate — and what’s more, they should believe what they nominate is worth an award.

Jared Anders
Guest

So what’s your stance on all the people who publically admited to not reading Vox before voting him below No Award?

I can obviously only speak for myself, but the allegation that we’re not nominating stuff we think worth an award is ludicrous, and I’ve seen no indication anyone is suggesting nominating unknowns.

It’s also not like there isn’t plenty of time to read the parts we haven’t gotten to before noms are due.

Or are you suggesting Larry hasn’t read what he’s put forth as his version of the slate?

Jared Anders
Guest

As a side bet, anyone want to lay odds that the above attack was nothing more than a drive-by comment, or if he’ll actually engage with us?

Kevin Findley
Guest

You obviously have not paid attention to what has actually been said BY the Sad Puppy people rather than just what has been said ABOUT them.

Jared Anders
Guest

I wonder how many of the nominees listed above *he’s* actually read? I can’t fault him for his love of Shakespeare, but if he thinks Jim Butcher isn’t a great writer worthy of consideration I a fuerzas have to assume he either hasn’t read him or he didn’t give him a fair shake.

(And yes, there exists such a thing as an award worthy author whose work I personally don’t like, doesn’t mean I can’t admit its artistic merit. Take Game of Thrones – far too depressing for my tastes, but it is still masterfully written.)

Tully
Guest

He’s running through the checklist. He keeps getting stuck around 5 or 6, which defaults him back to step 1.

Brian Niemeier
Guest

“I can’t fault him for his love of Shakespeare…”

He hasn’t experienced Shakespeare until he’s read it in the original Klingon.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Klingon-Hamlet-William-Shakespeare/dp/0671035789

Jared Anders
Guest
TomT
Guest

So what are you saying here? Are you claiming that Sad Puppies are not legitimate good books to nominate? If so why not? Your post seems very confused about what you are complaining about.

Patrick Chester
Guest

Oh look, projection and a mightily thrashed strawman.

James May
Guest
You’re defending a cult that literally asks to “de-white” their libraries. Justin Landon got on Twitter and asserted there would be nothing new in an all-white Table of Contents he was bitter about. It boycotts and apologizes for all white convention panels. It vows to read fewer whites and men and more women and color of people. In other words it’s color coding art in a way where what’s on the page is irrelevant. I could list enough examples to make your eyes wiggle. The support for such attitudes is unquestioned. You are supporting people who have openly shown they… Read more »
Nathan
Guest

Sounds awfully like you’re making stuff up. But here’s my response: your complaint, assuming it is genuine and not ingroup posturing, is tangential to the point of Sad Puppies and in no way validates or invalidates the campaign. However, if you don’t condemn those who boast about not reading Sad Puppies nominees before voting No Award, you are a hypocrite and your objection can be ignored as ingroup posturing.

Nathaniel F
Guest

The best thing about Sad Puppies is the awesome reading list.

trackback

[…] we have the Sad Puppies 3 Update by Larry Correia. You know Larry. He’s the most evil of men except for Vox. He likes guns. […]

Josh
Guest
I’m always happy to see new titles submitted for recognition, so I’m in favor of the whole Sad Puppies mission. And the slate, well — I loved Skin Game, I loved Monster Hunter: Nemesis. Haven’t read anything else on the list, but they’re on my ‘To Read’ list now. (I did read Gannon’s previous book and, well, it was OK. Not really my thing but interesting enough that I’ll check out the second one.) But anyway — all I really want to say is that you shouldn’t underestimate the other books. I read Ancillary Justice and thought it was really… Read more »
James May
Guest
“…the most finely tuned pieces of work in a given social/progressive theme are also, always and inevitably, intersectional. Put out a call for stories about the experience of colonialism, or about body politics, and the overwhelming majority of the best stories submitted will also care about gender, race, sexuality, class, ability and every other angle of privilege and discrimination. I couldn’t have asked for a better illustration of intersectionality than this. It’s wonderful. We just can’t talk about ‘feminism’ or ‘postcolonialism’ without including gender, sexuality, disability, class, Anglocentrism, and many other vectors of privilege. “From this perspective, we want to… Read more »
Kit
Guest

We don’t care about your politics as long as we think your writing is awesome! And if you call black people not fully human and say throwing acid in women’s faces isn’t really a problem we’ll think your writing is awesome even if it’s _Opera Vita Aeterna_!

Says it all, really.

T.L. Knighton
Guest

Nice straw man you built there. [/eye roll]

TomT
Guest

Well yes that is exactly the kinds of insults thrown by the SJW crowd. How nice of you to recognize it.

Nathan
Guest

Smells a bit Space Fishy…

T.L. Knighton
Guest

It really does, doesn’t it?

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Could be. He’s on Mad Genius Club too.

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

Clarification: “Tradain liMarchborg” in on MGC. “Kit” hasn’t been there. If it is Clamps at all. And if it isn’t, my sincere apologies.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

Clamps on MGC recently quoted the acid bit. If Mr. Beale really says so many offensive things, and the posters are independent, one might expect any similarity in material to stem from the material being recently posted.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool
It is helpful if you provide citations. It is unclear if you are claiming the person was speaking of a group or of individuals. There are at least two different ways of classifying as human. One by biology and science, and one by choices and behavior. It is only controversial to speak of individuals and choices if one would be offended by someone claiming that a serial killer was not human. For this case, trying to get special treatment along ethnic lines, which your statement implies, makes /you/ the racist. So: Quotes? Do you object to Jeff Dahmer or Ted… Read more »
James May
Guest

In fact it does say it all. The repeated childish attempts to take one guy and blow him up into an army speaks to the non-existence of what SJWs cry about. Any other quotes?

It’s the same in a larger context. The number of SJW people committed to a recognizable ideology of identity-bigotry from last year’s Nebula winners alone outnumbers the entirety of SFF 1912-1975. What more can you say when one night outdoes 6 decades other than there’s a whole lot of lying going on.

Shawna
Guest

Question: Are the two Grimnoir short audiobooks eligible for anything? Do they qualify as short stories?

lelnet
Guest
“You should work within the system” is the funniest one, I think. Guys…this IS working within the system. There is a documented, system-approved procedure for joining, nominating, and voting. We’re following it. NOT working within the system would be if we…say…hacked the voting. Or submitted fraudulent memberships. Or all went to the con and disrupted the awards ceremony. Or some egregious SJW crap like that. Which no one in the Sad Puppies crew has ever proposed doing, and I’m pretty sure no one in the Sad Puppies crew would fail to utterly denounce, if some lunatic-fringe supporter tried to go… Read more »
Brad R. Torgersen
Guest

Yup. And the detractors’ various complaints basically boil down to, “Stop playing by our rules, and get out of our exclusive sad box, or we’ll call you bad names!” I’m pretty sure my 11 year old daughter is more mature than some of these people.

Tarl
Guest

“You should work within the system” = “you should shut up and vote for the people we like”.

If you say things the rabbits don’t like or vote for people the rabbits don’t like, you are by definition violating the established rabbit system.

Josh
Guest

I’m curious about one line from the original post:

“Seriously, guys, nominate Jim Butcher. (Hell, I’m voting for Butcher first!) The fact that he’s been ignored by the Hugos all this time is telling.”

What is it telling of? Presumably Butcher isn’t being rejected because of his political beliefs…

Joel Salomon
Guest

Sad Puppies 2 was justified by the booing that The Wheel of Time (not even on the SP2 slate) got when its nomination was announced. Jim Butcher’s books will tick off the same elitists in the same way.

Josh
Guest

Fair enough, I suppose. I wouldn’t have voted for The Wheel of Time because it got so ridiculously bloated and divergent that I stopped reading it around volume 9. Which is not to say that I thought that the early books were bad — just that as a series it didn’t deliver. (Although I hear it wrapped up nicely…hmmm).

I would cheer for Jim Butcher getting a nomination, even if I wouldn’t necessarily vote for him (depends what else is on the ballot).

Joel Salomon
Guest

Voting is one thing; booing quite another.

James May
Guest

I don’t see it like that at all. There’s plenty of reasons to like and dislike Wheel of Time and this entire thing has nothing to do with elitism. The entire pack of SJWs dote on Dr. Who. When did that become elitism? To me the original TV series was symbolic of the most crass appropriation of SF without having the least understanding of what made it tick.

James May
Guest
You can assume any straight white male SFF writer not actively supporting gender abolitionist race feminism is at best a privileged voice of no interest to a REAL SFF reader; a dinosaur on their way to an artistic cul-de-sac. At worst they are a de facto woman-hating, homophobic racist. When you have daily rhetorical questions from SJWs like “Why can’t you put women in your fantasy books if you can have dragons” and answering their own rhetorical question with “Maybe they don’t hate dragons,” that’s revealing. It’s revealing in the context of the incredible surge of SJW compassion for Kameron… Read more »
trackback

[…] noreply@blogger.com (Vox) This may explain why the pinkshirts are so remarkably shy about engaging with the Evil Legion of Evil:Dude, please. You’ve got 45 fucking Hugo nominations. Disqualify would be saying your opinion […]

trackback

[…] slate – Brad Torgersen offers SAD PUPPIES: some responses to the fallout – Larry Correia with a Sad Puppies 3 Update – Sarah Hoyt discusses the matter at When Duck Noises Fail Me – Brad Torgersen expounds on SAD […]

trackback

[…] Sad Puppies 3 Update […]

pencil@neckgeek.com
Guest
I started voting on Sad Puppies with the last slate. I am terrible with names so I did not connect this fellow with anything on the ballot. I read everything I voted for. I commented on the liar on his own site. He has shut down the comments. He is nothing but utter human filth. To lie so baldly is deserving of nothing else but utter and complete contempt. I can say with full confidence that if he is on the slate _this_ year I will not read him. I held nothing against him before this thread. But I will… Read more »
GK Chesterton
Guest

The above email is a something I use to generate the images consistently. My pseudonym, because I believe in standing by what you wrote unlike others, is GK Chesterton.

blainemono
Guest

When is the Evil League of Evil shirt line coming out? I think a “How do those gerbils breathe” shirt should be added to the roster. If you don’t sell em, I guess i’ll just have to make my own with an iron.

trackback

[…] want to engage and wants his readers to nominated works they haven’t even bothered to read. The fact that the guy has 45 Hugo nominations – and that clearly makes him part of the in-crow… shows that they’re […]

trackback

[…] Eric Boehlert Bemoans Exit Of “Most Progressive” Media Voices Monster Hunter Nation: Sad Puppies 3 Update RIPPED FROM THE HEADLINES American Power: “Vacation Cutting” – More Than 500,000 […]

Christopher M. Chupik
Guest
Christopher M. Chupik

The stupid is strong with this one:

http://fosteronfilm.com/thoughts/the-fight-for-masculinity-in-science-fiction.htm

Quote: “It most often appears as racist outbursts from a group calling themselves Sad Puppies because… well, they give a kind of reason but I’m thinking it’s because someone had a very white puppy when he was a kid.”

And no, I don’t think it’s a parody.

T.L. Knighton
Guest

*Facepalm*

I’d go read it, but I’m already dealing with nausea at the moment.

Francesca
Guest
So, I recently I was saw an article on fb relating to this whole sad puppies business. The article seemed to be very clearly stating that this evil white straight male only voting block is taking over the Hugos. And this awful force is led by none other than Larry Correia. Wait? The Larry Correia, whose Spellbound I am right now rereading? Whose MHI patch I have sewn on my backpack? My fb lists me as a team lead at MHI(personal dream, maybe in another reality). I can’t associate with all this hate. What is going on? Hurt and confused,… Read more »
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