Sad Puppies 3 Update

Last week we released the Sad Puppies suggestions. Predictably, that caused some outrage. Then I asked for people to help out by providing links showing how SJWs operate. More outrage. Then the Breitbart article came out. Wow. That was fun.

I’ve been seeing a lot of criticisms of Sad Puppies. Now, my original plan was to have our eloquent spokesmanatee, Wendell, do an in depth interview with respected news man, Brian Williams, but Williams backed out of the interview at the last minute for some reason.

Sick burn, dude.
Sick burn, dude.

So instead, I’ve thrown together some criticisms and narratives that the SJWs have been using and my brief response to each.

Sad Puppies represents the “Fringe” and “bigots with crazy beliefs”.  

Wait… Did my people nominate Requires Hate or a guy who publically supports NAMBLA while I wasn’t looking? Oh wait… That was the GOOD SIDE.

File 770 has written a lot about how Larry Correia is the worst person ever.

Headline: Man with 28 Hugo nominations thinks the system is perfectly fine.

Some people put on the Sad Puppies suggested slate have removed themselves.

Yes. This isn’t surprising. Considering the heat and concern trolling many of the suggested authors have been getting, I’m surprised it has only been a few.

If you’ll note, despite the allegations to the contrary, our suggestions are politically diverse. Of the ones who have dropped out, I do believe they have all been liberals.

We made an effort to contact everyone we put on beforehand to warn them what was coming. Apparently we missed two of these. One was added the day we put up the suggestions because a couple of posters pointed them out, and they truly are excellent and talented, but we’d forgotten about them during our initial brainstorming.

I can’t blame them for dropping out. And none of you should either. The ELoE talked about this a lot before putting together a slate. They have all personally experienced what happens when you draw the SJW contingent’s wrath. It isn’t pretty.

And we’ve already replaced them. Here is the updated slate of suggestions:


Says a SJW who grew up in the suburbs, and attended some of the most expensive schools in America, to the guy who grew up milking cows, and worked his way through Utah State, unironically.

Puppies are color blind. (No… really, come to think of it they are!)

We don’t care who you are or where you came from, as long as your writing is awesome.


Log Rolling! Vote Buying! Ballot Stuffing! Sock Puppets! Taxidermy!

Okay, I made up that last one to see if you were paying attention.

Nope, sorry. They’re actual fans who ponied up some money to vote. They’re just the wrong kinds of fans.


Sad Puppies supporters registering in record numbers.
Sad Puppies supporters registering in record numbers.

Sad Puppies is all about mumble mumble racism.

Nope. We’re not about excluding anybody. That’s them. We’re about including more people.

Oh yeah! Vox Day is literally Hitler Satan!

He’s not even on the Sad Puppies slate this year, but he still lives rent free in their heads.

Last year I liked a story written by a guy SJWs think is racist. Could a comment made a few years ago by Vox Day to Nora Jemisin be seen as racist? Yep. Has Nora Jemisin said a whole bunch of racist things herself leading up to that and then a bunch after? Yep.

So, to attempt to put this into SJW terms, did a Person of Color (man, I hate that stupid term) aggress against another Person of Color who was also committing aggressions? I think so, but I got an accounting degree instead of gender studies, so I’m not sure.

Have the SJWs ever nominated individuals who have said or done controversial things for prestigious awards? Ha!

Have far worse and more insulting things been said about people like me or Sarah Hoyt by beloved Social Justice Warriors, with zero condemnation from their side? Oh hell yeah. But double standards are cool.

In reality, Sad Puppies don’t give a crap about what box an author checks. We care if they entertain us.

Damien Walter said Larry Correia just needs a hug.

Uh… Hugged by a confused “lonely Brit” who moved to Thailand searching for someone to love him? Naw. I’m cool. Thanks.

Larry Correia *claims* to be speaking to reporters!

I don’t know why it was so far-fetched for them to think that I was actually talking to reporters since Sad Puppies 2 got mentioned in the USA Today.

He’s gathering SJW names! Persecution!

I’d already sent a bunch of information on to the Breitbart guys to look into last week, and the only reason I posted was to gather more links showing how the run of the mill SJWs behaved. (feel free to go through them if you want to decide for yourself).

But even when they knew I was collecting quotes, they couldn’t help but provide more.

Okay, so there was a news report about Sad Puppies, but Breitbart isn’t a *real* media outlet.  

Oh man, hopefully someday I’ll be able to break out huge and get in Salon or the HuffPo!

I like exposing bullies. SJWs operate by accusing their ideological opponents of all sorts of horrible things. The accusations are usually crap, but people are scared of being accused. Bullies are only powerful when nobody challenges them. Expose them, and their endless accusations lose strength.

So the SJWs will dismiss this article, but in truth they’re terrified of being exposed. As their accusations lose power more authors say to themselves screw the thought police, I’m going to write what I want. Then somebody somewhere might be having fun wrong, and SJWs can’t abide that.

My favorite part was seeing a former SFWA president in the comment section praising the article and agreeing about the importance of defending free speech.

This is all about Correia’s huge ego and his personal desire to win a Hugo.

Which is why I tried to back out, and when the ELoE outvoted me, we still made sure to suggest me up against some of the best writers alive, including one of the most popular authors on Earth and what is probably his single best book.

Seriously, guys, nominate Jim Butcher. (Hell, I’m voting for Butcher first!)  The fact that he’s been ignored by the Hugos all this time is telling. I’m not joking. The man writes circles around most of the usual nominees. Gannon, Kloos, and Anderson also have amazing books in there. All are remarkable authors. Read the books and decide for yourself.

You should work within the system. The Sad Puppies method of asking outsiders to get involved is uncouth and barbaric.

Funny how that works, isn’t it?

Get them in a private conversation and most authors will admit that the Hugos are broken. Some are cool with it because it is broken in their favor. Others won’t say anything because they didn’t think there was anything they could do about it, and they knew the first group would make their lives miserable if they tried. So things stay the same or get increasingly asinine. Then when somebody does try to do something, they’ve rocked the boat, and are bad.

I noted that both Elizabeth Moon and David Gerrold both commented last week about the badness of Sad Puppies. That’s great. We are political polar opposites, but I think they’re talented and I’ve enjoyed works from both of them.

Here’s the thing. Whether you think what I’m doing is horrible or not, it has actually drawn attention to the same clique of rabid types that actively attacked both of you. Signing a petition for free speech is great. What happened next? They dismissed you as old, white, racist, neo-cons and went back to scaring the shit out of all the authors who don’t have entrenched established careers.

So you might not like me or my friends coloring outside the lines, but we actually believe in free speech, freedom of artistic expression, and not sabotaging the careers of the people who disagree with us. So if that means we need to flip over some tables at the country club, so be it.

Fandom is inclusive! So we have to exclude you!

I’m trying to think of how to explain this one, but I’ve been seeing it pop up a lot. On one hand, Fandom (as in the crowd that votes for the Hugos) claims to be all inclusive, but on the other hand, some of them get very upset when a new group of people who are also fans show up and participate. Because they’re the wrong kind of fans.

I’ve even seen some of these people go so far as to admit that the Hugo is actually a popularity contest just for them, which is why we are bad for meddling in their club. Okay. I can actually respect that, because at least it is honest.

However, considering it was me saying exactly that a few years ago that started all this. I went to the Hugos and came out saying it was a biased popularity contest for one little clique, and I was condemned for it, because the Hugos are all about quality, and art, and greatness, and represent all of fandom and sunshine and happiness.

I said nope, let me show you how it really is, and that’s what brings us to where we are today.

Now, voting for quality art is still true for many of the regular voters, and they take it very seriously. In fact, they cherish it and consider voting honestly a responsibility. I’ve got nothing but respect for them. I can even understand them seeing something like Sad Puppies as offensive, uncouth, even vulgar. And I can appreciate that.

But get them in private and start going through some of the message ridden dreck and see what they think. Most of these people have better things to do than to collaborate and nominate in blocks. So when the finals roll around they get to choose between Angsty Message Fic 1 and Angsty Message Fic 2. They’re not outnumbered by SJWs, but they’ve certainly been outmaneuvered.

We’re doing the same thing the SJWs have been doing for years. The difference is that it is safe to condemn the Sad Puppies contingent. We’re not going to sabotage their careers or slander them.

Sad Puppies wants to burn it all down.

Not really. Maybe that’s true for some of us, but let me give you a peek behind the curtain. We all have our different motivations. We don’t march in ideological lockstep.

I’ve explained my reasons repeatedly. When one of their beloved leaders called me Mr. Free Speech At All Costs they meant it as an insult. I took it as a compliment. I proved my point last year about the bias and was happy to walk away.

Brad Torgersen on the other hand is an idealist. He bleeds geek. He wants the Hugos to mean something again. He wants them to be special, and for the general reading public to look at them and say “Award Winning? Holy moly, then it must be good!” Brad wants the Hugos to be relevant to everyone. He dragged me back into this because he thinks Sad Puppies can actually make a difference.

As the mushy moderate of the Evil Legion of Evil, he’s like a Druid, trying to bring balance back to nature or something.

Here is a good article from Brad:

EDIT: to add, Sarah went and did another meme post. 🙂



Sad Puppies 3 Update 2.1 Addendum to Prior Update
Breitbart Reports on Sad Puppies

212 thoughts on “Sad Puppies 3 Update”

  1. And all this time, I thought this was about a massive ego boost for *me* so that *I* could win a Hugo!!

    Actually, I am torn between MONSTER HUNTER and SKIN GAME. I can say for sure I will not be voting for ANCILLARY SOCIAL-JUSTICE PRONOUN or whatever that book is.

      1. But what about my famous story TRANNY-SAURUS of GOR MEETS THE WOLFPERSON? It is my re-imagining of the King Arthur myth where all the Knights of the Round Table are Lesbian Were-Seals, and Gwen is hot for Morgan le Fay. In space!! I thought for sure that would win!!! And my elves are different!!!!

        1. The saddest part was when the evil, republican, redneck, religious townsfolk beat the poor Wolfperson for being a gay, muslim, transsexual, paleontologist.

      2. Well, unless the LGBTOMGBBQ! Dinosaur of Color was a Purple Molestoraptor.

        Not even SJWs like B’harneii the Destroyer, and his awful Wail of Ensnarement. . . .

      3. These are all stories that desperately need writing!

        If John Cleve can crank out 20 books a year, surely you gentlemen can produce something of equally high quality (though appealing to the sensitive tastes of the SJW crowd) in your copious free time!

        1. I could either write a SJW appeasing book under a pseudonym or paint more minis… Hmmm… Gonna have to go with minis.

          1. But if you wrote the SJW-approved, extruded fantasy product, then you could use the money that *they* would be paying you to purchase more minis and paint! Win-win!

          2. Money? There’s only a handful of SJW approved authors that make any money at this. I make more off of merchandising than most of these people do in total.

      4. A real artist could mock them while making them think he was appeasing them.

        To this day, multitudes of folk don’t realize what Trevanian was up to…

      5. Okay John C Wright. Trannysaurus of Gor meets the Wolfperson? *shudder* oh my dear fluffy lord the visual makes me want to hurl man! Have you empathy? I just got OVER being hurling puking sick this weekend and you wanna send me back to worship at the porcelain alter? Bad Mr Wright. Baaaaaaaaaad.

      6. To lobo314,
        Have I “empathy”? Why, I did read about that word in a history book once. It is a human emotion that was removed from my species many generations ago, thanks to advances in eugenics and neuropharmacology. This is why, when we abandon our dying planet, your lush and green world will be ripe for the plucking!

        We would have picked Venus, which has an environment more similar to ours, but that Dinosaur story really pissed off The Supreme Intelligence, who decreed it was worse than Vogon poetry, so now you earthlings are in for it.

      7. “I could either write a SJW appeasing book under a pseudonym or paint more minis… Hmmm… Gonna have to go with minis.”

        There’s an angle you’re missing, Larry.

        So it gets written under a super-secret pseudonym that never gets revealed. It gets nominated and then wins the Hugo.

        And then out steps the INTERNATIONAL LORD OF HATE to receive the award, wearing an uber-evil grin.

        Heads would literally explode. Might be worth it for the entertainment value. 😉

      8. Dear John C Wright
        Your Supreme Intelligence has not watched enough classic Twilight Zone episodes. The last time anyone tried anything, we sent their fleet back to Mars with their 3rd arms behind their backs. And if you even think you have a chance against the Home Fleet, bring it. Our third eyes are watching you….. buuuuaw aha ahahah HAH HAH

    1. John: I’m not torn. I liked NEMESIS, but SKIN GAME… holy crap, that was the best thing I’ve read of Butcher’s since TURN COAT. I haven’t read the sequel to ANCILLARY SOCIAL-JUSTICE PRONOUN yet because I had such a difficult time getting through the first one.

      By the by, I never did thank you for writing CITY BEYOND TIME. I loved it.

      1. Turn Coat is the one I’ll be reading soon. (Yes, I’m behind. Have you seen my bookshelves? Rhetorical, of course.)

    2. Yeah, MHN and SG are both great. I REread both withing a short time of them coming out. I’m not sure which I’ll vote number one, but they’ll probably beat out any others.

    3. MH:N is fantastic but SKIN GAME ROCKS THE SHELVES!!!! 😉 Basically both are fantastic but I’m with Larry on this and think Skin Game is Butchers best Dresden book to date.

      1. I’ve read a few Dresden books (haven’t read more mostly because I am never sure which ones I need and which would be dupicates) so… how does Skin Game go if you’re half the series behind? Does it stand alone well?

      2. Phew. That’s a tough one.

        It does, but at the same time some of the themes and set up for the main plot happen many books before Skin Game. There is also a massive shift in the status quo three books previous that takes until the end of Skin Game to shake out. (Mostly, some stuff is still up in the air)

        Which books have you read? If we start with that we could probably make a list of which ones you should read and which you can just read the plot summary at the appropriate point.

      3. “Which books have you read” is the problem. 🙂 But! I got a S5 phone for Christmas and I fully intend to make some inventory lists on Google Drive that include “books you own by author” and “authors to avoid” (there are a couple of romance authors that are stinkers and I keep on buying their books by accident.) Then when I’m at the book store or even just browsing Nook or Kindle I don’t have to try to remember by trying to think if the cover art looks familiar.

        Anyhow… THANK YOU for the list of books it’s good to read before hand. I know I’ve read a couple of them for sure.

      4. Yeah. Stick with 60’s list, then go back and read them all when you have time. The first couple are shakier, but only because they were his first novels.

        Basically every single book he puts out is a little bit better than the last.

  2. Any fan award is, ultimately, a popularity contest. I find it telling that book that are actually popular aren’t winning or even being nominated.

    Brad’s a great guy, and I hope Sad Puppies doesn’t get as much mud slung at him as it did at you, but he’ll handle it if it does. He may be the Care Bear of the ELoE, but he does pack a flamethrower.

    Honestly, I just can’t the Hugo’s seriously, and those people screaming about Sad Puppies don’t seem to get that it’s not because “my kind” of stories aren’t winning, but because popular stories aren’t even being considered, whether I like them or not.

  3. I’d say SP has the best chance of getting Butcher on the ballot. He might stand a chance because of his huge fanbase, but it’s more likely the Ancillary sequel will sweep everything this year, just like the first one.

    1. Not sure I agree that the Ancillary sequel will win. There hasn’t been much buzz about it that I’ve seen. it appears to have fallen to the sophomore curse. Even then, it’s a sequel and the Hugos generally hate.

      My guess is either Lock In or Kameron Hurley’s Mirror Empires. Maybe even The Three Body Problem

  4. So, to attempt to put this into SJW terms, did a Person of Color (man, I hate that stupid term) aggress against another Person of Color who was also committing aggressions?

    Vox’s POC status – and yours – don’t count because badthink.

    Elizabeth Warren and Bill Clinton get POC status because goodthink.

    So there!

  5. Well, if Sad Puppies is “ballot stuffing”, does that mean they’ll go after Scalzi for his similar efforts to mobilize his fanbase for the Hugos?

    Didn’t think so.

  6. I pretty much ignore the Hugos’ now. It was already, IMO, a bit of a ‘name recognition’ popularity contest in the past., But it’s now broken when people are included/excluded on things that have little-to-nothing to do with their writing and everything to do with group-think and political correctness.

  7. I can see how the initial campaign came across as gauche and “vote for me!” I think it was gauche when Scalzi did it, too.

    But as simply a way to get more of fandom interested and voting on the Hugos, I’m all for it. I love your work, but wouldn’t consider any of it Hugo-worthy (OTOH, I wouldn’t exactly vote for Redshirts, either, so maybe I need to readjust my definition). But SAD puppies totally convinced me to get a voting packet and to read all of the awesome fiction on it this year and every year.

    It’s great advertising, which should be good for everyone. How *else* are you going to get *your* fans to read something like Ancillary Justice, or the SJW types to read Grimnoir? Exposing more people to good fiction with a diversity of viewpoints should be a net win for *everyone.*

    1. That’s very fair.

      The first campaign consisted of a single blog post. The second campaign was very Vote For Me! But hey, it accomplished my goals. We’re still kind of working the bugs out of this. 🙂

      1. I think it’s going to be very good for the Hugos, Sci Fi fandom in general, and Sad Puppies to have Brad Torgensen leading the charge this year.

        You’re awesome, Larry, but you are a giant lightning bolt. Well, really more of a lightning generator. I think we needed the jolt of electricity to get things going.. but focussing the attention away from you should help make it more obvious that this is about the fiction, and not just about creating a conservative voting bloc to win more awards for Baen authors 🙂 Not saying that’s what it *was*, but it was a mischaracterization that could stick in the public consciousness.

        Enough pontificating. I still need to go pick up Nemesis. Darn thing has been on my library reserve list for *weeks*.

    2. Not Hugo-worthy? Bah! The Monster Hunter books and Grimnoirs are as good as any Hugo winner, ever.

      Look at the winners from before 1980. They’re not Message Fiction. They are entertainment. When you read Monster Hunter, are you not entertained?

      1. Honestly, when I think Hugo, I think Starship Troopers, Man in the High Castle, Dune, Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Slaughterhouse Five.

        I think books that have great stories and ideas, but *also* make you think a bit. Books that tread the boundary between Sci Fi and literary writing.

        Warbound is *awesome* fun, but it’s still pulp. Great, enjoyable, blowing up ninjas in pirate ships pulp… but not the same rarified air, in my obviously not very humble opinion.

        Sorry for the insult of saying you aren’t Robert Heinlein, Larry 🙂 I hope someday I can also be not Heinlein.

        But I haven’t followed the award as recently. And given that Redshirts won, it seems as though they’ll let *anyone* in… 😉

      2. The idea of ninjas fighting magic users on top of a zeppelin is not thought provoking? Or Satan attacking Washington DC? Certainly made me think — in the latter case, I was thinking, “why doesn’t that hurry up and happen already?”

        Look at the list of winners. There is plenty of pulp on there.

      3. Frankly, I’m tired of stories that “make me think”. After 40 years of reading anything I can get my hands on, I’ve seen it all and I don’t need lectures or lessons. Just entertain me, dammit!

      4. “Satan attacking Washington,DC?” Hell, from all available evidence he’s already taken it over, and without even firing a shot.

    3. Personally, I’m not sure how many nominations I’ll end up submitting. If I only nominated the stuff that I really thought was amazing and practically perfect from the past year, my list would consist only of Skin Game and Guardians of the Galaxy (and probably something from Patricia Briggs’s anthology). (I’ll probably nominate more than that, but I really doubt I’ll fill out all the categories.) I’m actually way more interested in voting for the best of five (or however many) in a category than trying to say which of all works published in a year are worthy of awards. (Especially since the vast majority of books I read in any given year were not actually published in that year.)

      1. I’m in the same boat. I don’t read anywhere close to enough books that come out in the year to have an honest opinion on which is best for nominations — but I’m going to be dutiful in looking at all the finalists and casting my vote.

  8. I got my membership because of SP2 last year… this is awesome, keep it up. The more people voting on Hugos the better – no two ways about it.

  9. This reminds me of The Big Bang Theory when they were all hanging out at Raj’s appartment because Leonard was dating Raj’s sister. Sheldon decided to invite other people over and it was a disaster for him. Why?
    “They were having fun wrong.”

  10. Jemisin said “I don’t feel safe in Australia.” Vox said “we simply do not view her as being fully civilized for the obvious historical reason that she is not.”

    1. We would a woman feel safe who’s had her career “strangled” by getting 4 Nebula nominations right out of the gate? White cis-people are like Triffids: they spit slime in your eyes and then strangle you.

      1. The only think saving Australians from being overrun by murderous teddy bears is that the bears are too stoned to do anything. Think about it. It doesn’t kill you because it is higher than a kite.

    1. “We want to destroy patriarchal power at its source, the family” and also “Children are fully capable of participating in community, and have every right to live out their own erotic impulses.” – Andrea Dworkin

      Molesto-feminism. Add in as iconic a gender abolition feminist there is joining a children’s rights pedophile movement – Simone de Beauvoir

      1. Isn’t Marrion Zimmer Bradley thrown off her pedistal and put in a dark corner now for exactly that kind of thing? Or at least turning a blind eye to it?

      2. Read the testimony.

        The most plausible explanation is that she was, and that her lesbian lover, who survived her and was the sole heir of her literary rights, either knew or worked very hard not to know.

        Tying up a kid that age and threatening them with pliers has no legitimate role in parenting.

        Failure to realize and act on that at best stinks. Assuming that wasn’t something she saw as less damaging to say to serve as a cover story.

        There are strong indications that some pretty foul things happened.

  11. Okay…Everybody please stop this for a moment…

    I’m very triggered that I’ve run out of beer and chips

      1. You know…those folks making all of those puppies sad…owe us restitution in the form of good beer and a small mound of chips.

        My apologies for not being able to vote this time…I’m rehabbing my garage into a workshop (ala Gernsback).

  12. I know part of the point of Sad Puppies is not to care about the political inclinations of the author… but is Butcher a leftist? I know he seems careful to come across as apolitical publicly, but certain beats (like his very sympathetic portrayal of the Catholic Church, for example) make me wonder.

    Either way, he seems like a nice, down-to-earth guy.

    1. Butcher plays it close to the vest and stays above the fray. He’s no SJW, that’s for sure.

      He’s just a damned good story teller.

      1. Back in the day, Jim Butcher recommended some writers he enjoyed, that he counted as friends. Chuck Wendig was one of these.

        If Jim Butcher is not an over-the-top supporter of my specific flavor of SJW(race), then he must be a leftist white supremacist.

        Or maybe there is such a thing a someone whose politics do not fit any cookie cutters, and who doesn’t strictly police who they associate with.

      2. Has there been any comment by Butcher about this so far? I haven’t seen anything, at any rate.

        And yeah… SG vs MHN, SG wins. SG vs Warbound… that would require a long pondering session.

      3. I doubt it. Butcher’s big enough to not fear the SJWs, and thoughtful enough to notice that the foam from the Sad Puppies’ mouths is not rabies, but the result of their joyful bounding.

  13. YES! I can now access Wendell’s wisdom on Twitter whenever I feel like it! #WendellsWisdom #meewhooo #hooon

  14. While I have enjoyed the controversy of Sad Puppies it’s purely as a spectator. The last time I cared about an award it was the Newbery Medal of Honor(1) and I was a gradeschooler hanging out in the library while my mother did other things. EVEN THEN I knew that all the other awards meant the book was old(2), or slow, or in some other way un-fun.

    The intervening decades haven’t change my view at all. If anything, they’ve strengthened it. Stamping laurel leaves on the jewel case of your DVD is about as likely to get me to watch it as printing “This Sucks!” there. The Grammys and Oscars can go get stuffed.

    When I want a book I download half a dozen samples from Amazon and buy the one I enjoy. I can’t tell self-published from award winning from best seller and I can’t imagine why anyone would want to. Much of what I read *is* self published. A lot of people are saying “SciFi is a wasteland” in these comments. I think you’re looking in the wrong place.

    Still, good luck on making an award mean something; it would be an interesting change of pace!

    (1) I will admit to a small pang of regret when I looked at this year’s winners and was fairly certain proto-me would have been utterly disinterested. I was not, however, surprised.

    (2) A lot of you probably liked the classic Hugo Winners more than I did. I’ve always liked my SciFi very current. That’s not to say some of the classics aren’t great, but when I was 10 years old a book pretty much had to be less than 5 years old to get me to read it.

    1. Speaking of kids books and awards, if there’s a dog and a book award on the cover, the dog dies. (I’m told by friends that the book is pretty good, but I’ve only read previews.)

      1. I’ve read and enjoyed a lot of Korman over the years. I can’t recall if I read that one, but it sounds vaguely familiar.

      2. It’s not just dogs. There’s something referred to as the Newbury Curse, which refers to the tendency of Newbury award-winning books to have at least one tragic death.

    2. Still not sure how any of Susan Cooper’s “Dark is Rising” books ended up as Newbery Medal or Honor award winners – I loved them….

  15. I’ve honestly given up on the hugos. I view this as the last death spasm of something that used to be real, and is now nothing more than a shell game and masturbatory fest for the SJW crowd. My current view on awards in general is that if it’s been nominated for an award, it’s probably crap. If it’s recieved an award, it’s crap for certain. Makes for a convenient filtration process.

    1. The downside is that many people get into reading SFF at their local library.
      And “nominated for an award/received a reward” is a handy filter for librarians to use. Especially those who don’t read SFF themselves.

      THAT is why you should care. The mainstream is being pushed out by the marginal.

      1. Personally I haven’t found that to be the case – Despite winning last year Ancillary Justice doesn’t have all that many copies in my system.

        Granted, we are large enough that the librarian picking the Sci-Fi books does know what she’s doing, and we’re also large enough that we get some of pretty much all the major publishers books, but either way, Hugo nods don’t seem to do much in my system.

        In smaller ones? Maybe. But there are also a lot of librarians who don’t even know what the Hugo’s are.

      2. This nobody had Ancillary Justice when I looked for it in multiple bookstores I had to order it online, this was after it already won a few awards and I was still excited for it, the premise is really cool to me. Bookstores don’t give a crap about award winners they just follow what the big publishers tell them to do, and the best seller lists(which is why I think that books-a-million/borders/B&N all have pretty much the exact same books.

        I’m not sure how libraries stock I think they all have their own system the one locally has a terrible SFF selection so I don’t even bother.

  16. Reblogged this on The Worlds of Tarien Cole and commented:
    Don’t worry Larry, the fact that Jim Butcher hasn’t been nominated about 8 times over baffles me. So you bet I’m going for Skin Game, which is perhaps the 2nd best of the entire Dresdencrack series (behind only Dead Beat).

  17. Larry.. If you get nominated, will you go to worldcon? I think the only way to get included is to go and sit on panels. If your fans see you go more might attend. The people who put on worldcon are not paid. I dont think they are attacking you. Also i think worldcon is more of a scifi con then a fantasy con. It would be nice if more fantasy authors showed up and raised exposure. Most people who attend just want to have fun.

    Dont mean to come off preachy. If i do i apologize.

    1. I’d love to see Larry attend Worldcon. Of course if he did he’d probably get the Royal Ross Welcome and SJW attendence would plummet. Or they would SWAT his hotel room in an effort to have their space made ‘safe’.

  18. I am re-nominating “We Have Always Never Fought” because Cis Meeewoo Hooooons are fuxing nutsaxxer het-racists and with the normative already plus 50% more privileged.

  19. Twitter crap:

    “Matt Wallace ‏@MattFnWallace · 1h1 hour ago
    @NMamatas @Keffy Larry Correia and Vox Day are locked in a room. Between them: one Hugo, one knife, and a copy of both their obituaries. GO.”

    Once again: Vox is NOT on the ballot. And remember, we’re the dangerous nuts for peacefully trying to change the Hugo, but people who post veiled death threats on Twitter are blameless angels.

    1. If you lock Larry and Vox in a room, I’m expecting a whole lot of brainstorming and some civil discourse. The knife might be used to unlock the door so the pizza could arrive.

      1. You seem to forget that, to the radical left, any potentially lethal weapon *will* immediately be used to murder someone.

    2. The problem for leftista twits like Keffy and Matt is that they’ve convinced themselves that the Hugo is some sort of Holy of Holies. The members of the ELoE thrash them in every other author metric, and the Hugo is the only hope they have left of validating their overweening self-regard. The thought that wrongthinkers might not consider obtaining it a war-to-the-knife matter is simply inconceivable. Because if getting a Hugo isn’t that important, then the insidious doubt begins to sneak in that maybe it doesn’t mean that much after all.

      1. “Just F-ing Keftastic ‏@Keffy Oct 12 . @ActsofAndrewB Oh, we could make a list of white dudes who are *still alive* that people defend the careers of despite doing awful shit.”

        “K Tempest Bradford retweeted Just F-ing Keftastic @Keffy · 15h 15 hours ago Day 3, same question: If RH (Requires Only That You Hate) deserves blacklist, when will the same standard be applied to famous white men in SF/F? How about the rapists?”

        “Just F-ing Keftastic ‏@Keffy Oct 12 . @ActsofAndrewB The big difference is that no matter what a white guy says or does, the world is devoted to having infinite patience.”

        “Andrew Barton ‏@ActsofAndrewB Oct 12 .@Keffy Hang on there, Citizen! Are you suggesting white guys should be held responsible for their actions? That’s not very SF of you!”

        I would never imagine any adult in a literary community could write stuff like that. The hostility towards literally tens of millions of people based on nothing more than their skin and sex is frightening.

        1. First, who are these “rapists” they’re talking about?

          Second, it wasn’t anyone on this side of the aisle calling for Requires Hate to be blacklisted. None of us were interested in reading her crap in the first place though, so that’s hardly surprising. It’s worth noting that we don’t want anyone blacklisted. We just want diversity of opinions and voices.

          1. Rapists? You mean beloved SJW icon Marion Zimmer Bradley? Now, I don’t know if beloved SJW icon Delaney has ever actually done anything, but he supports the big organization of child rape, and is even listed on NAMBLA’s web page as a supporter.

          2. Yeah, I thought about MZB, but obviously they’re not talking about her, because the accusations against her are a vicious right wing plot or something. (No, I haven’t seen anyone make that argument, but the way lefties seem to be ignoring the accusations against her, there has to be a reason) And I don’t know of any formal accusations against Delany, besides being creepy as hell for supporting NAMBLA and writing Hog, which makes him even more creepy but has been public knowledge long enough that they can’t be talking about him.

            I mean, I’m genuinely confused who they’re talking about.

            Unless it’s one of those “all straight sex is rape because women really can’t say no” things, in which case…

      2. Those Tweets above are a pitch perfect example of the divide in SFF. Can anyone spot the liberal vs. conservative or Marxism vs. capitalism in them? It has nothing to do with that. This is KKK shit. Same horse, different color. They hide behind liberal vs. conservative because of just that idea – they can hide.

        1. Oh, is THAT the rapist they were talking about?

          In that case, they don’t need to worry. I don’t buy his books anymore, but mostly because he made it clear he has an issue with folks like me. Didn’t know he described himself as a rapist.

    3. Did it never occur to this guy that if those two were inclined to fight, the Hugo itself would be used as a weapon?

      Honestly. No imagination whatsoever.

      1. I think in that hypothetical situation, I’d give Vox the knife because he’s one of those wiry quick types and I’d use the Hugo as a bludgeon. Then we’d kill our captors and escape in the most violent, blood soaked way possible. Afterwards, I’d sell the Hugo on eBay and give the money to a manatee rescue.

      2. Sell the Hugo on eBay? When you could make so more to fight Manatee Cancer by another funraiser where you shoot things and the bloody trophy Hugo as the main attraction?

        Oh, the possibilities.

  20. I’m looking forward to the argument that the Hugos are too politicized, and must be divorced from popular vote in order to preserve their integrity.

    I say looking forward, but I’m sure someone has already proposed it.

  21. Moon got put on the rack and has since repented of her sins. She now boils her rice the Catholic way, not the Hindoostani way.

    What’s the chances a person who wants to “de-Jew” their reading library is going to vote for a Jew? What’s the chances a person who happily Tweeted no Arabs won a Nebula is going to vote for an Arab? What’s the chances a person who believes Latinos erased them from history will vote for a Latino? What’s the chances a straight reviews editor who believes gays should come with trigger warnings for arrogance will vote for gays? What’s the chances a person sick of “black saviors” will vote for a black? What’s the chances people sick of a “white dude parade,” “rape culture,” “cis white dudes” and “white privilege” will vote male or white? What’s the chances people who lovingly dote on mental cases like Joanna Russ or Audre Lorde will vote for men who will make them play tennis in long skirts and steal their pencil boxes? What’s your chances in a literary org where the president is retweeting bullshit about “Space: not just for white men anymore”? That’s all Stormfront shit. The names have been changed but the principle is EXACTLY the same, a thing beyond the capabilities of morons to grasp.

    This is not a system that is broken but a corrupt and unprincipled culture of broken and naive people gulled by hateful bigots and the whole thing powered by an ideology created by psychotics with a hard on for men, heterosexuals and whites. It is a KKK in all but name. The reasoning behind it all is obtuse, sick, stupid, ignorant, self-contradictory and bullshit but the hate that rides above it all isn’t in the least complicated. The claims this cult makes are nothing less than delusional. Were they to present them using courtroom-style rules of evidence they would be thrown out on their ear. “Micro aggressions”? “Racist”? For saying “Hi, where you from?” Are you fucking kidding me? And who has a nervous breakdown in front of thousands on Twitter cuz the equivalent of David Letterman might host the Hugos?

    If you want to vote best fan post, vote something from Stormfront. It’ll be as much SFF as “We Have Always Never Fought” and would be such a perfect match for Requires Hate’s Campbell nominated persona and many other SJW bloggers who routinely make anti-white remarks. Everybody needs to stop calling this “politics.”

    As for myself, it doesn’t drive me crazy that bad work gets nominated. That’s endemic to any awards process. What I don’t like is the obvious racial and sexual discrimination and advocacy that leads to HOW those works get nominated. It’s worse when SJWs go on about “Oh, look, white men are feeling oppressed.” White men are not being oppressed, but they are being openly discriminated and colluded against. And the principle behind the Constitution is equal protection, not “It’s your turn now.” If you don’t treat me fair, expect the same in return. That’s only common sense.

  22. I’m sure this will get buried under all of the other awesome comments here, but I’ll sleep better putting it out here in the open. 🙂
    I’ve been sharing the Sad Puppies and fisk articles with a good friend of mine and it’s done wonders to restore her confidence in her own writing. She was terrified to cross the SJWs and their wrath, while her dad was constantly browbeated by relatives.
    But your example Mr. Correia has been a beacon for my friend and myself! Can’t thank you enough for being a cismale genderconformative fascist blah blah blah, Lord of Hate. XD

    Keep up the good work! 😀

      1. When the whole Requires Hate thing blew up, I pointed out how the accusations she threw around worked on SJWs because they were terrified of being labeled, while us on this side of the fence know we’re not whatever -ist they’re throwing around at us so we blow them off.

        Of course, a SJW showed up and tried to progsplain to me how it works by trying to suggest that I’d be mortified if something I wrote was labeled “liberal”.

        Laughter doesn’t really translate through the internet, which is exactly what my initial reaction was. He never did get that no, even then it wouldn’t bother me, because I know it’s bullshit.

        Like you said, they only have the power you give them.

      2. ” They can only hurt you if you give them the power to do so.”

        Ummm. Maybe we should ask Brandon Eich about that?

        As long as we have a legal system that allows for the concepts of “hate speech”, “hostile environment” harassment suits, and non-prosecution of false claims, the SJWs have all the tools they need to hurt anyone — a lot.

      3. Point, snelson.

        And people who are fearful are not irrational. They have good reason to be cautious because people WILL try to destroy them. I’d suggest, though, that there really is a rather large “support” network that doesn’t give a fig, that doesn’t demand lock step, AND there are alternatives in publishing these days that never existed before.

        “You can’t stop the signal, Mal.”

  23. I attended a redistricting hearing in California a couple years back where David Gerrold spoke up against the San Francisco/Sacramento plan in favor of the one the local communities actually wanted. Then sat silently as the arrogant functionaries told us all we’d be getting the San Francisco/Sacramento-originated plan whether we liked it or not because they knew better. Which is which my then Congressman’s district headquarters remained in Malibu by the shore, while his constituents lived in the San Fernando valley on the other side of a mountain range.

    People like David and Elizabeth Moon don’t get that they may hold decent values but they support some very indecent people indeed.

  24. Disqualify, disqualify, disqualify! And to think, you used to to disdain these tactics, too.

    No wonder you won’t engage — an advocate of Sad Puppies has no counter to someone who says people should have read the things these nominate — and what’s more, they should believe what they nominate is worth an award.

    1. So what’s your stance on all the people who publically admited to not reading Vox before voting him below No Award?

      I can obviously only speak for myself, but the allegation that we’re not nominating stuff we think worth an award is ludicrous, and I’ve seen no indication anyone is suggesting nominating unknowns.

      It’s also not like there isn’t plenty of time to read the parts we haven’t gotten to before noms are due.

      Or are you suggesting Larry hasn’t read what he’s put forth as his version of the slate?

      1. As a side bet, anyone want to lay odds that the above attack was nothing more than a drive-by comment, or if he’ll actually engage with us?

    2. You obviously have not paid attention to what has actually been said BY the Sad Puppy people rather than just what has been said ABOUT them.

      1. I wonder how many of the nominees listed above *he’s* actually read? I can’t fault him for his love of Shakespeare, but if he thinks Jim Butcher isn’t a great writer worthy of consideration I a fuerzas have to assume he either hasn’t read him or he didn’t give him a fair shake.

        (And yes, there exists such a thing as an award worthy author whose work I personally don’t like, doesn’t mean I can’t admit its artistic merit. Take Game of Thrones – far too depressing for my tastes, but it is still masterfully written.)

    3. So what are you saying here? Are you claiming that Sad Puppies are not legitimate good books to nominate? If so why not? Your post seems very confused about what you are complaining about.

    4. You’re defending a cult that literally asks to “de-white” their libraries. Justin Landon got on Twitter and asserted there would be nothing new in an all-white Table of Contents he was bitter about. It boycotts and apologizes for all white convention panels. It vows to read fewer whites and men and more women and color of people.

      In other words it’s color coding art in a way where what’s on the page is irrelevant. I could list enough examples to make your eyes wiggle. The support for such attitudes is unquestioned. You are supporting people who have openly shown they would never allow ANY kind of slate to be all male or all-white. That’s means a lot of work has to be plucked out using a photograph and shoved into place. That is corrupt and immoral and it is not art. It promotes work that doesn’t deserve it and sidelines work that does on the theory the pool of quality is so high racially and sexually pie-charting it will do no harm. You have the proof that is false by reading the list of Tiptree nominees since 1991.

      Ask yourself what the point is of yourself being in this genre. Imagine if you pie-charted boxing, Samba and blues music, NBA all-star teams or anything else under the sun like that. The quality would take a steep dive and you know it.

    5. Sounds awfully like you’re making stuff up. But here’s my response: your complaint, assuming it is genuine and not ingroup posturing, is tangential to the point of Sad Puppies and in no way validates or invalidates the campaign. However, if you don’t condemn those who boast about not reading Sad Puppies nominees before voting No Award, you are a hypocrite and your objection can be ignored as ingroup posturing.

    6. So much bullshit in so few words. Another wonderful example of Brandolini’s bullshit asymmetry principle, that it takes an order of magnitude more effort to dismiss bullshit than to create it.

      “Disqualify, disqualify, disqualify! And to think, you used to to disdain these tactics, too.”

      Disqualify? Ha! Dude, please. You’ve got 45 fucking Hugo nominations. Disqualify would be saying your opinion doesn’t count because you are a white male and have privilege. Shit. Looking at that picture you’ve got Santa Privilege.

      Instead the fact that one dude has 45 nominations is a pretty damned good indicator that your little pond has gone stagnant. That isn’t disqualification. That is stating the obvious. I said you guys were a tiny little clique, but I didn’t realize it was that inbred. That is something so absurd that when I learned your blog had 28 it blew my mind. It was so ridiculous that when somebody else pointed out that you actually have FORTY FIVE in total, I didn’t believe them. I scoffed at first. Even me, the guy who started this big open public conversation we’re finally having about the Hugos being broken, thought to myself, naw, that’s impossible. There’s no freaking way they’d give some individual 45 nominations and 9 Hugos.


      So, then when a guy with 45 Hugo noms writes about me, what… What are you up to now? Six? Eight articles about Sad Puppies? And in said articles misconstrues damn near everything, and repeatedly assures his readers, don’t worry, comrades, the system is fine, system is our friend, and only bad people work outside of system… Well, that’s just fishy.

      It isn’t disqualification to note that somebody benefiting directly from a broken system might be in favor of said system. In your case it is just extra pathetic and kind of sad. It also explains why you seem to actually believe that I’m driven by a desire to get a trophy. I really don’t want your people’s approval and I truly don’t give a shit about me winning (and don’t worry, if I’m nominated again, I will prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt).

      “No wonder you won’t engage”

      Engage what? You specifically? Your bullshit is no different than the other narrative bullshit, so I respond to them in mass. Honestly Glyer 45 Hugos, internet arguing is a spectator sport, frankly your 28 Hugo Fanzine doesn’t have enough traffic for me to justify the time responding there (Which is why, I’m going to cut and paste this response over to Facebook when I’m done).

      I’m kind of busy engaging the entire SJW internet to spend much time worrying about your bad Shakespeare. But it shows what an interesting selective memory you’ve got there. I’ve written in depth and rather openly about what I’m doing. You write about it and make shit up to explain to your clique what their narrative should be. I’ve repeatedly written since clarifying things, but you just ignore, and make more shit up about what I *really* meant.

      And I didn’t bother with your last one, because I don’t think Dogberry was compiling links to actual quotes of his opponents being assholes.

      But while I’m thinking about it, here is an interesting thought on “engaging”. Do you realize that in all this time, and all this controversy, not a single one of my opponents has actually taken the time to contact me to speak about this directly? I’ve been contacted by a bunch of people who are secretly on my side, and I’ve been contacted by many moderate fence sitters and people genuinely concerned for the future of the Hugos. But the side opposed to what I”m doing? None. None of the interview places, none of the award winning fanzines, none of the SJW bloggers with their fingers on the pulse of fandom. Zip. Zero. No engagement, just ignore what I actually say and do, and make up bullshit instead.

      Oh. Wait… John Scalzi sent me an email after he tried to portray me as a rape apologist where he concern trolled me about making Mormons and Republicans look bad.

      So take your “engagement” and shove it up your sanctimonious ass.

      “an advocate of Sad Puppies has no counter to someone who says people should have read the things these nominate ”

      What the fucking fuck are you even talking about now?

      We put out suggestions in February. We’ve still got a month to put our ballots in. Brad is working on a post now with links to all the short fiction. If your lips don’t move while you read, it really doesn’t take that long to make it through the shorts, and most of us have already read the suggested novels.

      So really, Glyer, what’s the statistical odds the stuff on our suggested list won’t get read compared to the suggestions that your side has bandied about to your inbred cliques for years. Let’s look at best author… What are the odds some random person read a Jim Butcher novel (with print runs in the millions) versus a Leckie novel (30k total copies sold)? Hell, me and Scalzi sell about the same, so we’ll call that one a wash. KJA? I don’t know. Something like 23 million books in print tells me that maybe, just maybe, people might actually read it before nominating. I’ve Book Bombed Gannon, Kloos, and KJA on here before, so yes, my readership is familiar. (and my Wrong Kind of Fan reads a lot and usually has disposable income, which scares the shit out of people like you)

      Tell me where, Mr. Hard Hitting Fandom Journalist, have I ever said for people to nominate works without reading them? In fact, I do believe I’ve said the opposite. Meanwhile, we’ve dredged up suggested Hugo slates from the SJW side before the books have even come out.

      “and what’s more, they should believe what they nominate is worth an award.”

      Yep… Where have I ever said otherwise?

      And because I had to break that up to fisk it, holy shit, grammar. What the hell was that last paragraph.

      See why I can’t personally engage all of you assholes? It takes a page to explain all the nonsense you cram into a few sentences. My time is valuable. Unlike most of you, I actually get paid to write.

      1. A guy with 45 Hugo nominations thinks the system is fine? Kind of like how James Patterson thinks traditional publishing isn’t broken. Someone who had enjoyed enormous success in the current system can rarely be trusted to be objective in their observations of the system.

        I know if I got 45 Hugo nominations, I might not see the problems with the system.

      2. “A guy with 45 Hugo nominations thinks the system is fine? Kind of like how James Patterson thinks traditional publishing isn’t broken.”
        -T.L. Knighton

        “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
        -Upton Sinclair

      3. So post the link where you said “Don’t nominate the stuff on the Sad Puppies slate unless you’ve read it.” I don’t believe you’ve ever said that. If you have, I won’t stick it where you suggest, but I will stick the link up on my blog.

          1. Well, I never *specifically* told you guys not to set small animals on fire either, so obviously Larry Correia wants you to burn small animals.

        1. At this point you’ve shoved so much stuff up there that I don’t know if you could fit another Hugo. How do those gerbils breathe?

          See how it works, guys, Glyer makes accusations. If I waste time searching through a bunch of posts to satisfy his demands, he’ll simply move on to the next accusation. If I don’t waste time searching through posts, then he declares victory.

          Note, I “engaged” and responded to all his other bullshit, but he just skips that and moves onto to another accusation. Sensing a pattern?

          But fuck him and his 45 Hugos, I remember a couple off the top of my head.

          From this very post he’s commenting on I said “Read the books and decide for yourself.”

          From last week “These are my suggested nominations. I am under no delusions that you guys do exactly what I suggest.”
          Shit, I even go through all the best novels and why they should read all of them.

          April 24 – “In closing, I would really like everybody who is a voting member of WorldCon to actually read the works in each category and vote based upon which ones they think are best.”
          “The rules allow WoT to be considered a novel, so it is there. I’d ask readers to judge the works accordingly”

          June 2 – “Or you could actually judge the works based on quality and how much the readers like them…”

          That’s one minute of skimming the blog. That’s already more than Glyer deserves.

          I’ve also mentioned reading and nominating based on quality enjoyment rather than message on Facebook a whole mess of times (but it is a bitch to search) and I’ve mentioned it in podcast interviews.

          I don’t need to hold my people’s hands. They’re going to do whatever the hell they want regardless of how I encourage them.

          Oh, but wait! Glyer 45 Hugos doesn’t even know what next week’s Sad Puppies is about! Let’s just say that I’m going to take his accusations of not encouraging people to read before nominating and I’m going cram it right down his fucking throat. Not only am I going to have posts encouraging people to read all the suggested works, I’m going to explain why, and then I’m going to get those authors a whole bunch of reviews and sales as I Book Bomb them on Amazon.

          1. Some things are so friggin’ obvious that I shouldn’t have to state them, but just to get it on the record:

            You should look both ways before crossing the street.
            You should read things before you nominate them for awards.
            You should always wash your hands after going to the bathroom.

      4. Mr. Glyer, telling us not to vote on something we haven’t read is unnecessary. Larry can assume that we won’t, because he knows we aren’t a member of the “Paint-Chip Flavor Of The Month” Club.

      5. The best thing about Sad puppies, is that I actually found out that I could nominate authors I enjoy for a Hugo without being present at the con.

        And I haven’t followed the full slate because I haven’t read them. I have nominated what I like, and left what I don’t. The stuff I haven’t read, I leave off.

      6. I agree that I don’t think he’s really reading, just skimming. After I reblogged my post that I made on File 770, after I said:

        “I would have to add though, that if you think voting en-bloc for works they haven’t read is unethical [something he seemed to accuse SP readers of in the previous comment], you should feel similarly about the even larger, and successful act of bloc voting AGAINST works, and encouraging people to vote against them without reading them, even though they’ve been provided for free in the package.”

        He later came back with a remark: “Thanks for conceding my point.” which I most certainly did not.

  25. I’m always happy to see new titles submitted for recognition, so I’m in favor of the whole Sad Puppies mission.

    And the slate, well — I loved Skin Game, I loved Monster Hunter: Nemesis. Haven’t read anything else on the list, but they’re on my ‘To Read’ list now. (I did read Gannon’s previous book and, well, it was OK. Not really my thing but interesting enough that I’ll check out the second one.)

    But anyway — all I really want to say is that you shouldn’t underestimate the other books. I read Ancillary Justice and thought it was really excellent, and, while I would have been just as happy to see other nominees take home the Best Novel award (Neptune’s Brood or Warbound), Ancillary Justice was my first choice and I think it’s well-deserved. Yes, it does some unusual things with gender. Does that make it a SJW book? Maybe — but I still thought it was a damn good, interesting story. (Less impressed with Ancillary Sword, though — same gender trick, much less interesting story.)

    But I’m not unhappy about authors experimenting with different ways of telling stories. I enjoy reading books by authors of different nationalities or viewpoints, whatever their stripe. And I think that the fact that people are experimenting with different racial/gender/whatever balances in their books enriches the field rather than diminishing it. The big ‘but’ here, though, is that just because someone decides to experiment doesn’t mean that everyone has to.

    Good fiction is my goal. Write how you want, but tell a good story and let’s hope that the field is such that the good stories can be properly recognized whether they’re written by conservatives, liberals, what-have-you.

  26. “…the most finely tuned pieces of work in a given social/progressive theme are also, always and inevitably, intersectional. Put out a call for stories about the experience of colonialism, or about body politics, and the overwhelming majority of the best stories submitted will also care about gender, race, sexuality, class, ability and every other angle of privilege and discrimination. I couldn’t have asked for a better illustration of intersectionality than this. It’s wonderful. We just can’t talk about ‘feminism’ or ‘postcolonialism’ without including gender, sexuality, disability, class, Anglocentrism, and many other vectors of privilege.

    “From this perspective, we want to reach the same audiences with our intersectional content that mainstream publishers target. But we’re absolutely not asking our authors to target their stories, based as they are on a variety of experiences, backgrounds and perspectives including culture, language, race, sexuality, health, at an imagined, homogeneous, white-male-cis-het-abled-American readership. People outside that mainstream need to read stories that matter to them too, and if the truths those stories tell shock and alienate the privileged reader?

    “Fuck that reader.” – Djibril al-Ayad, co-editor of the anti-white SFF racial revenge anthology We See a Different Frontier.

    And look who was in that anthology: Joyce Chng and her “white privilege.” Rochita Loenen Ruiz and her slew of anti-white posts at Strange Horizons. Silvia (“can someone please think about the white people”) Garcia. Campbell Award-winner Sofia (I live in a “white supremacy”) Samatar. Campbell-nominee Requires Hate. J.Y. (“bi-feminist… feeds men’s bones to bearded vultures”) Yang. Afterword by Ekaterina (“how racist something is by how many white people show up to defend it”) Sedia and preface by Hugo winner Aliette (white actors leave a “bad taste” in her mouth) de Bodard.

    There’s your “liberalism,” and it seems startlingly intersectional and racist.

    “Retweeted by M J Locke Kameron Hurley @KameronHurley · Aug 2 Worth repeating: someone saying they want to drag me behind a truck because I’m a woman/not arrow straight is not a ‘political’ statement.”

    Neither is SFWA member Beth Bernobich wishing SFF author Larry Correia and his fans die in a fire. Neither is any of that shit above. Neither is “white privilege” and “rape culture” because I’m white and a man. Worth remembering your own words about “politics” morons.

  27. We don’t care about your politics as long as we think your writing is awesome! And if you call black people not fully human and say throwing acid in women’s faces isn’t really a problem we’ll think your writing is awesome even if it’s _Opera Vita Aeterna_!

    Says it all, really.

      1. Clarification: “Tradain liMarchborg” in on MGC. “Kit” hasn’t been there. If it is Clamps at all. And if it isn’t, my sincere apologies.

      2. Clamps on MGC recently quoted the acid bit. If Mr. Beale really says so many offensive things, and the posters are independent, one might expect any similarity in material to stem from the material being recently posted.

    1. 1. He’s not even on the slate.
      2. That isn’t even what he actually said.
      3. Even if what he did say was awful, how about for every actual racist or violent wishing quotes you provide for him, we provide you with ten racist or violent wishing quotes from award nominated SJWs. No interpretation. No dancing around. Just the attributed quotes to stand on their own to be judged.
      4. Trust me. You’ll run out way before we do.
      5. Yes, I nominated him. The other side nominated psychopath Requires Hate. Let’s call it even.
      6. Oh, but wait… As many bad things as Vox has ever said, he’s not a child rapist. So you guys have still nominated far worse.
      7. Nominated? Hell. You guys shower them with awards and praise, and once exposed avoid talking about them as long as possible.
      8. Or not at all, since you’re still praising and giving lifetime achievement awards to a dude who supports NAMBLA.
      9. Unless your point is that assholes can’t make art, because then the entire history of art called and said you’re wrong.
      10. But if you’re right, then I’ll be waiting for Roman Polansky to give back his Oscars.

    2. It is helpful if you provide citations.

      It is unclear if you are claiming the person was speaking of a group or of individuals.

      There are at least two different ways of classifying as human. One by biology and science, and one by choices and behavior.

      It is only controversial to speak of individuals and choices if one would be offended by someone claiming that a serial killer was not human. For this case, trying to get special treatment along ethnic lines, which your statement implies, makes /you/ the racist.

      So: Quotes? Do you object to Jeff Dahmer or Ted Bundy being called inhuman?

    3. In fact it does say it all. The repeated childish attempts to take one guy and blow him up into an army speaks to the non-existence of what SJWs cry about. Any other quotes?

      It’s the same in a larger context. The number of SJW people committed to a recognizable ideology of identity-bigotry from last year’s Nebula winners alone outnumbers the entirety of SFF 1912-1975. What more can you say when one night outdoes 6 decades other than there’s a whole lot of lying going on.

    1. They’re eligible, but I would rather push other people than myself. I’m in best novel because they wouldn’t let me weasel out of it.

        1. I don’t actually know off the top of my head. Either way, I’m not going to push them at all. I didn’t really want to be in novel, but got roped into it (and I have a strategy for that one). They’re probably novelletes, but I’d much rather see other authors on the slate end upon there instead of me.

  28. “You should work within the system” is the funniest one, I think.

    Guys…this IS working within the system. There is a documented, system-approved procedure for joining, nominating, and voting. We’re following it.

    NOT working within the system would be if we…say…hacked the voting. Or submitted fraudulent memberships. Or all went to the con and disrupted the awards ceremony. Or some egregious SJW crap like that. Which no one in the Sad Puppies crew has ever proposed doing, and I’m pretty sure no one in the Sad Puppies crew would fail to utterly denounce, if some lunatic-fringe supporter tried to go off and do it on his own.

    1. Yup. And the detractors’ various complaints basically boil down to, “Stop playing by our rules, and get out of our exclusive sad box, or we’ll call you bad names!” I’m pretty sure my 11 year old daughter is more mature than some of these people.

    2. “You should work within the system” = “you should shut up and vote for the people we like”.

      If you say things the rabbits don’t like or vote for people the rabbits don’t like, you are by definition violating the established rabbit system.

  29. I’m curious about one line from the original post:

    “Seriously, guys, nominate Jim Butcher. (Hell, I’m voting for Butcher first!) The fact that he’s been ignored by the Hugos all this time is telling.”

    What is it telling of? Presumably Butcher isn’t being rejected because of his political beliefs…

    1. He’s been ignored for a few reasons. He’s fairly apolitical, but he’s not an active SJW cheerleader, so he’s dead to them. He writes for the masses and is very entertaining, so the literati snooty types hate him. He’s massively successful and makes tons of money so the Art Can Never Be Pulp crowd really hates him.

      1. In short, it’s telling because Butcher write stores that people freaking LOVE, and he’s sold a metric butt ton of them, yet he hasn’t even been nominated for what is a so-called “fan” award.

    2. Sad Puppies 2 was justified by the booing that The Wheel of Time (not even on the SP2 slate) got when its nomination was announced. Jim Butcher’s books will tick off the same elitists in the same way.

      1. Fair enough, I suppose. I wouldn’t have voted for The Wheel of Time because it got so ridiculously bloated and divergent that I stopped reading it around volume 9. Which is not to say that I thought that the early books were bad — just that as a series it didn’t deliver. (Although I hear it wrapped up nicely…hmmm).

        I would cheer for Jim Butcher getting a nomination, even if I wouldn’t necessarily vote for him (depends what else is on the ballot).

      2. I don’t see it like that at all. There’s plenty of reasons to like and dislike Wheel of Time and this entire thing has nothing to do with elitism. The entire pack of SJWs dote on Dr. Who. When did that become elitism? To me the original TV series was symbolic of the most crass appropriation of SF without having the least understanding of what made it tick.

    3. You can assume any straight white male SFF writer not actively supporting gender abolitionist race feminism is at best a privileged voice of no interest to a REAL SFF reader; a dinosaur on their way to an artistic cul-de-sac. At worst they are a de facto woman-hating, homophobic racist.

      When you have daily rhetorical questions from SJWs like “Why can’t you put women in your fantasy books if you can have dragons” and answering their own rhetorical question with “Maybe they don’t hate dragons,” that’s revealing. It’s revealing in the context of the incredible surge of SJW compassion for Kameron Hurley’s absurd Hugo-winning “We Have Always Fought,” which is a pack of passive aggressive sociopathic nonsense wrapped in nonsense.

      In other words, SJW hostility ignores real-world events and makes up oppressions that don’t exist. There is only one reason people do that: they don’t like the ethnic, sexual target group and try and pretend the opposite is in play to hide that hatred. It’s the classic technique bigots use to appeal to sympathy: by hiding within Sudetenlands of fake anti-oppression narratives. It’s nothing more than a series of demonizing hoaxes, which is what Hurley’s post was and also what “rape culture” and “white privilege” is; it is an analogy to a blood-libel.

      This is why I constantly compare these people to the same intellectual and philosophical space as neo-Nazis or the KKK. SJWs in turn have some idea if you don’t look like a neo-Nazi, use that exact word, wear hoods and hate Jews and blacks that somehow you get a free pass. That is not principle at work but Orwell’s warning against being fooled by surface appearances; it is a perceptual trap.

  30. I started voting on Sad Puppies with the last slate. I am terrible with names so I did not connect this fellow with anything on the ballot. I read everything I voted for. I commented on the liar on his own site. He has shut down the comments. He is nothing but utter human filth. To lie so baldly is deserving of nothing else but utter and complete contempt.

    I can say with full confidence that if he is on the slate _this_ year I will not read him. I held nothing against him before this thread. But I will not read a “journalist” who is an utter and complete liar. Let me repeat that so that hopefully Google picks it up. Mike Glyer is a liar. He is unethical and should be removed from his field. Anyone reading him should feel ashamed.

    To post a challenge, to have it accepted, and then to lie more about it, is unconscionable. It is what sniveling cowards do. Mike Glyer is not brave, he does not stand up to the man, he lies so that his opponents can be knocked down. Mike Glyer is every petty villain in every fairy story I have ever read and worse. Because he does look like Santa Claus. He’s the smiling sort of villain. The one that looks like your grandfather and stabs you in the back when you turn.

    Mike Glyer is a liar.

  31. The above email is a something I use to generate the images consistently. My pseudonym, because I believe in standing by what you wrote unlike others, is GK Chesterton.

  32. When is the Evil League of Evil shirt line coming out? I think a “How do those gerbils breathe” shirt should be added to the roster. If you don’t sell em, I guess i’ll just have to make my own with an iron.

    1. Notice, always with the allegations, but never any actual links to my many racist outbursts. You know, by know you’d think they’d have like a catalog of them.

      1. You would think they’d have their own version of James May, carefully collecting all the evil things Straw Larry says.

        1. The greatest mind at the Guardian (okay, that’s not saying much) couldn’t find any racist quotes from me, and they even crowd sourced a witch hunt, so I wouldn’t hold your breath.

      2. The reason SJWs don’t have a version of me is because there is nothing to collect. It’s not like I cherry-pick this stuff. There’s a reason I mostly concentrate on prominent figures, e.g. editors, influential bloggers, award-nominees, SFWA presidents, serial panelists. I do that so I can’t cheat. I have no agenda. This all started cuz I noticed how one-sided the hate speech and segregation was. There are literally no ideologically segregated spaces of any kind among the so-called racist male supremacists. On the other hand the SJWs are rife with them.

        As for a neutral definition of hate speech to which I apply something like a baseball strike zone to, the amount of group racism and sexism from SJWs is literally an order of magnitude greater than the so-called reactionary right-wing conservative dinosaur “cis-peeeoooople.” And keep this in mind: I was no fan of conservatives when I was younger. I thought they were a bunch of sad morons. But times have changed and the “left” has taken the place of those morons as America’s most clueless bigots and rednecks, mostly thanks to their brand new addiction: gender feminism.

        SJWs are the greatest idiots, liars and racists in the 100 year history of the American genre and there is nothing even remotely in second place. The obvious reason SJWs ban and delete and don’t like comments sections in general is because they don’t like the concept of quotes and neutral definitions. They come off looking exactly like the boutique gentrified affirmative actioned KKK they are.

        As for Foster, he must think Jim Crow was about “how other people don’t appreciate” black folks. For a guy who can build an A-bomb he seems to have little idea of where it should be dropped afterwards. No one’s being “afraid of women” or “non-Caucasians” and he’s a straight up liar to say so. Once again, as a Marine, it looks as if he has to be pointed at Nazis rather than his own regiment and told “go” rather than relying on his own friendly fire judgment and initiative. He also seems to be estranged from the concept of quotes.

  33. So, I recently I was saw an article on fb relating to this whole sad puppies business. The article seemed to be very clearly stating that this evil white straight male only voting block is taking over the Hugos. And this awful force is led by none other than Larry Correia. Wait? The Larry Correia, whose Spellbound I am right now rereading? Whose MHI patch I have sewn on my backpack? My fb lists me as a team lead at MHI(personal dream, maybe in another reality). I can’t associate with all this hate. What is going on? Hurt and confused, I read more articles which only compounded my fears. Finally, I came to the same site where I so recently purchased that patch for answers. And what do I find? That y’all want the same thing I want. For the best books to win regardless of who wrote them. I don’t want an author to win because of their gender or race or religion. A work should stand or fall on its own. After reading through a chunk of these posts, my fears are assuaged. My concern is that someone for whom your works are less beloved wouldn’t have bothered to look further. Why does every article I read on this issue not mention that the goal is for the best writer to win? That seems like a big exclusion to me.

    1. Pretty much. Their goal is to lie and slander. Truth is irrelevant. Race and sex had nothing to do with it, and if my slate was supposed to be ideologically pure we sure did a bad job at it. 🙂

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