Monster Hunter Nation

The Naive Idiocy of Teaching Rapists Not To Rape

Believe it or not, I actually know a bit about beauty pageants. Yes, I know it doesn’t fit my image, but bear with me. Back in college I went out with Miss Utah State and attended several of these things. One thing that I learned was that despite the stereotypes about the dumb beauty queen, most of these women were very smart. Capable, intelligent women understand the need to take responsibility for their own safety.  

So Miss Nevada was doing the Q&A for the Miss America pageant and said something that caused the Perpetually Outraged to get their outrage on.

 “I believe that some colleges may potentially be afraid of having a bad reputation and that would be a reason it could be swept under the rug, because they don’t want that to come out into the public,”Nia Sanchez said. “But I think more awareness is very important so women can learn how to protect themselves. Myself, as a fourth-degree black belt, I learned from a young age that you need to be confident and be able to defend yourself. And I think that’s something that we should start to really implement for a lot of women.”

The internet then exploded with its typical impotent fist shaking fury. Now, normal, not insane people may be confused as to what Miss Nevada said that was so outrageous, but here is a helpful glimpse into the brains of various Twitter lemmings.

How did she win after that awful and offensive answer? Idiot— 
Cait Cremeens (@CaitCremeens) June 09, 2014

I’m sorry, but women shouldn’t need to take self defense classes to protect themselves from rape #MissUSA— 
Peter Simon (@PeterSimon12) June 09, 2014

Let’s hope Nevada uses her media tour to reiterate that teaching girls self defense is NOT the best way to protect against assault #MissUSA

Miss Nevada, who just reinforced victim-blaming rape culture to millions of viewers, is crowned #MissUSA 2014.— 
šīrīn
šəʿ (@shereenTshafi) June 09, 2014

Miss Nevada was asked about rape at colleges and answered that women need to learn to defend themselves… OR MEN COULD JUST NOT RAPE.

8:55 PM – 8 Jun 2014

Yeah. Try to wrap your brain around that shit. The answer to violent crime isn’t to do things to protect yourself from the criminal, but to WISH for the criminal not to exist at all… Good luck with that.

In the same spirit as other useless feel-good/do-nothing LibProg hastag campaigns like #bringbackourgirls http://monsterhunternation.com/2014/05/08/operation-pouty-face/ somebody started #yesallwomen, which mostly consists of shrieking about how all women are victims and all men are inherently evil, misogyny is everywhere, and any conservative women who disagree are stupid, so you know, the usual.

One of the favorite topics of the #yessallwombyns crowd is rape. Rape is an evil crime. Regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum we can all agree that rape is bad. Everybody who isn’t a scumbag criminal would like to see it end. The difference is that conservatives live in reality where human nature and history demonstrate that wishful thinking is useless, and libprogs live in a fantasy wonderland where the idea of fighting back against rapists is somehow bad and the real problem is that somebody just needed to teach rapists not to rape.

Not happy w/ Miss Nevada’s answer that to stop rape we should teach women to defend themselves…Why don’t we teach men to not rape?— 
Kelsey Bemus (@KelseyBemus) June 09, 2014

Miss Nevada described how individuals need to protect themselves from rape, instead of teaching others not to rape. Stop the victim blaming.— 
Haley Ploucha (@hallepalouka) June 09, 2014

A note on “victim blaming” that I got from author Mike Williamson. If I teach my kids to look both ways before crossing the street so they don’t get hit by cars, am I victim blaming?

So a danger exists, but recognizing that danger exists and doing reasonable things to combat it is blaming the victim…  I don’t know why we’re wasting all this money on police, when we should just teach all criminals not to crime.  

Miss Nevada saying rape can be prevented by women learning self defense and being “confident”

Miss Nevada

Chuck Dixon on FOX News tonight
Hard Magic makes #19 on the Audible Essentials list
Paul (Drak Bibliophile) Howard
Guest
Paul (Drak Bibliophile) Howard

What a bunch of morons (but I may be insulting morons).

John
Guest

The Moron’s lawyers will be in contact with you! 😀

Kristophr
Guest

All Morons attend rape classes. I fondly remember my first AoS rape class. Classic fun!

The best way to avoid rape is to have pointy elbows.

sanfordbegley
Guest

But Larry, self defense doesn’t address the issue of rape culture. If the woman defends herself and doesn’t get raped then they can’t use it as a case to attack good law abiding me for being rapists

rufus3698
Guest
Exactly. What’s happening now is the re-run of the “Take back the night” stuff that started in the 70s but was becoming the default recruitment method in the early 90s. I was on a university campus then and the Womyn’s center and the university were requiring both men and women to attend what amounted to “Come to Jesus” meetings where feminist dogma was preached in the name of stopping rape. These were led by womyn who claimed to have the “absolute moral authority” of being previously raped. An interesting claim since there was roughly one rape/yr at that particular campus.… Read more »
thewriterinblack
Guest
One bit of obfuscation that the Perpetually Outraged Everybody’s A Victim crowd likes to engage in is lumping all sexual assaulters into one bucket, even though it is a complicated subject with several different types of offenders. Didn’t you know? “Rape is rape.” Unless, of course, it’s Roman Planski drugging and anally raping an underage girl then it’s “not rape, rape.” These folk spin so hard they meet themselves coming. And, so, some of the comments I’ve made: Teach men not to rape? Two center of mass and one to the head gets the idea across quite effectively. Fire extinguishers?… Read more »
david mills
Guest

Of course there is the group that thinks all sex is rape.

The Phantom
Guest

They’re doing it wrong.

Tarl
Guest

That’s the group so fat / ugly / strident they ain’t getting any. =)

Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest
Theres a group of feminists who also scream about beautiful women being submissive to the patriarchy. It doesn’t matter what those women achieve, or whether they do it on their own merit. The fact they’re ‘beautiful’ = men will make their life easier for them. The ‘ugly’ ones were the only true women, for any love from a man they got meant they ‘got it from falling in love with their inner self’ not the ‘outer shell.’ The snarling hate I had for the implication that beautiful women should wash their faces in acid to prove their worth is one… Read more »
pohjalainen
Guest
At least in my country I have seen claims, from time to time, that pedestrians should not be asked to be careful and the responsibility to avoid hitting anyone is always solely the driver’s, and only the driver’s. They usually come up when some hapless driver has the audacity to suggest on some forum that perhaps it actually would be a good idea for those pedestrians to really do things like look both ways before stepping on the crosswalk. And that maybe all drivers aren’t always without failing constantly vigilant superhumans who always notice everything so it’s would be a… Read more »
thewriterinblack
Guest

I’m not saying we should kill all the stupid people. I’m just saying we should remove all the warning labels and let things sort themselves out.

Wayne Blackburn
Guest

They must have been reading The Mote in God’s Eye. That’s the way the mediator they were walking with said it worked.

Dan Lane
Guest

Not just your country. Here, I had to explain to a new (read: absolutely no experience whatsoever) Safety Supervisor that forklifts have built-in blind spots. Cut short, my argument was “safety is everyone’s responsibility. You hire adults. For what the company is paying you should expect them to have the common sense God gave a baby duck, at the least.”

__
Guest

“Two center of mass and one to the head gets the idea across quite effectively”…ok, so any girl in a bar just has to beat every man unconscious in order to make it clear she does not want to be drugged and fucked while passed out ? rape is not always a guy with a knife. And if the girl is in a weelchair ? she is by default always ok for sex because if she is not ok she would have knocked him ?

jabrwok
Guest

“Two center of mass and one to the head gets the idea across quite effectively” refers to bullet placement. Even girls in wheelchairs can point guns.

blottogg
Guest

Guys, too. I train with one during our weekly “Choir Practice” sessions with our instructor. He does just fine, though the added up angle means he has to watch the head shots so he doesn’t put one in the acoustic baffles.

T.L. Knighton
Guest

Nice straw men you’ve got there. Build them yourself, or did you borrow them from someone else?

Achillea
Guest

I see reading comprehension is not one of your strengths, blankie. You really whupped ass on that strawman, though.

thewriterinblack
Guest

Thanks for the comments, folks. I really wasn’t up to wading in again–barrel still cooling from the last round. 😉

The Phantom
Guest
Dear ___, Are you deliberately being obtuse, or is it an involuntary neural disorder? You don’t want to get drugged and raped in a bar, COVER YOUR DRINK. Or, you know, take some trustworthy backup with you. Because otherwise, you are easy meat. All the “education” in the entire world is not going to deter Mr. Date Rape one tiny bit. Sticking a gun in his face might. If you can’t, or won’t, you should have a friend who can and will. Or is that victim blaming? Oh, and is there some reason why chicks in wheelchairs -shouldn’t- have a… Read more »
Andy
Guest

We’re through the looking glass here, people. It’s a mad house! A mad house!!!

Oh, I stumbled across a video game you might find interesting: http://nonadecimal.com/site/socialjusticewarriors/

Dave W.
Guest

Am I misunderstanding this? It sounds like the game creator is Pro-SJWs?

http://nonadecimal.com/site/making-social-justice-warriors/

Andy
Guest

Hell, I don’t know. I just think the existence of it is kind of funny 🙂

Andrew
Guest

It appears to be a game that allows you to pretend to be a person pretending to do something by yammering on the internet. I get the idea of a game that lets you pretend to be awesome…but this is pretty lame.

Guess
Guest

There is a free one called liberal crime squad at bay12games.com. This is the creator of dwarf fortress. It’s a lot better that this one.

Dave W.
Guest

My god, their stupid, it BURNS…..

Dave W.
Guest

My 15-year-old daughter asked me last week if she could go to kickboxing classes now that school is out. I said “Hell, yes! If they offer self-defense classes, those too! Do they have Krav Maga classes?” The surprised look on her face was priceless.

Woelf Dietrich
Guest

That was actually funny. I’d allow the same when the time comes.

My oldest daughter is seven and I’ve already warned her not to trust grownups other than me and her mom. It comes down to the same rationale for teaching self-defense. There is no way in hell I’m gonna set my daughter free in this world protected only by wishful thinking. That redefines moronic behavior.

William O. B'Livion
Guest

I just picked my 7 year old up from Krav class.

She has three rules where fighting are concerned:

1) Never hit first (she’s seven. When she’s got more understanding this rule will change).
2) Always hit back. Always.
3) Get a knockout, get an icecream.

Dave W.
Guest

“3) Get a knockout, get an icecream.”

That’s awesome! “Ice cream is for closers!” 😀

Kristophr
Guest

Get the girl a real leather jacket and some engineer-style steel-toed motorcycle boots. Armor and weapons you can get away with wearing at school.

Blond_Engineer
Guest

My parents put me in martial arts when I hit high school and told me I couldn’t date until I got at least my green belt. Certainly there’s other benefits than knowing how to block blows, gouge eyes, kick groins, or break knees, but those were the ones uppermost in my parents’ thoughts at the time.

Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest

If only it burned only them though…!

Nicole
Guest

Idiots. I can’t even grasp how the brain like blobs in those people’s heads function. I believe I will keep my daughter in martial arts and prepare her to take care of evil should it trouble her. I just wish I knew at what age most parents start taking their kids to the range.

david mills
Guest

6 or 7 with strict supervision, 9 with her own gun imo

Bruce
Guest
I shot my first rounds at 4 or 5. The first trip was part of the “this is what happens when you shoot something with a firearm, and this is why firearms are NOT toys and are always treated as if they are loaded” training. Somewhere between that and 6 or 7, when I got my first shotgun (20 gauge, and I still have it), there were several trips to the range where I learned how to shoot accurately – the safe handling stuff happened at home. I was also the 4th child, and not the first that was trained… Read more »
Geodkyt
Guest

Depends on the kid. If she’s ready to follow instructions UNQUESTIONINGLY AND IMMEDIATELY (for safety reasons), and big enough to hold the gun and pull the trigger (physics), she’s old enough. I don;t care if she’s 5 or 15.

If she’s not ready, it doesn’t matter if she’s 15 or 50.

Ree1
Guest

I was 8 when my dad put a .357 in my hand… If you think your kid is old enough to understand, teach them!

CombatMissionary
Guest

I set up a BB gun range in my backyard. Santa brought Daisy Pink Carbines and Daisy Bucks. The kids all wear safety glasses and are quickly learning safe handling while ventilating Shoot-N-C zombie targets. They won’t learn any younger!

david mills
Guest

If you take the time and make the investment to defend your self, and I don’t, then that makes me feel bad. So of course you should not make me feel like i’m lazy or helpless, and you should just be a victim too. Because it’s never my fault, it’s the fault of someone else, like the government, except for Obama, Just hold hands and visualize Unicorns. Don’t think about yucky stuff.

freeholder45
Guest

A lot of the opposition to home-schooling has the same basis — some people don’t want to go that much work with their children, but if you do home-school your kids, it makes them look bad, so they don’t want anybody to be able to do it.

Joel Salomon
Guest

And of course shooting a rapist has one great advantage over (to choose a completely random example) pushing a rapist over a ten-foot wall: When you shoot him, you know he’s dead; fifty years later, you won’t be worried that you might have left him alive to hurt somebody.

jnials
Guest

Let the people say: AMEN!.

As the father of a teenage daughter, I taught her early on (read: 9 years old) where to kick the guy for most effect, and various other dirty tricks I never taught my boys. I also taught her to take responsibility, be assertive, and don’t take crap from anyone just because she is a girl. As a result, most of the boys are either her best friends or afraid her.

The fact that her three older brothers are either huge (like @correia45 huge), or study MMA doesn’t hurt.

CombatMissionary
Guest

You should put her in MMA as well. Knowing how to snap ankles, break collarbones, destroy elbows, gouge out eyes, do throat strikes etc. are all useful for girls. The primary philosophy should be “Engage to disengage; but while engaging, do permanently damaging and immediately disabling destructive violence.”

keranih
Guest

Women shouldn’t need to learn to protect themselves against rape #missnevada educate and respect yourself as a woman #rapeculture

…Right. And as an adult woman – generally not the weakest, smallest, or drunkest thing in my immediate vicinity – self-defense classes are also very good at helping me get skills to help protect other people.

You know, for the times when I am not the victimest victimy victim in the room.

It’s like these people are going out of their way to draw a box that says “self-responsible free citizens inside” and then lock it, with themselves on the outside.

Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest

I’m okay with them locking themselves outside – the proverbial zombies can get them that way. The problem is they aren’t limiting it to themselves.

keranih
Guest
Yeah. Not carrying so much for the Sisterhood, if that is it. (I am still shaking my head over this. When women (or anyone) look at the world, and only see people bigger than themselves, who might deal out abuse, and ignore the people smaller than themselves, who might need protection, there was something wrong with their upbringing.) (Logic dictates that the medium person figure out how to enlist the larger person in protection of the smaller person. Except, duh, that’s traditional human society. It seems that many people would rather create a new world where all abandon the weakest,… Read more »
Robin Munn
Guest
keranih wrote: ” I don’t get it. Who raised these people?” I think you’ll find most of them came from single-parent households where dad was out of the picture (mom was either divorced or never married). And single mothers usually don’t have much time for their kids while trying to hold down a job, which means handing the kids off to one daycare center after another. (Some of those daycare centers have names like “____ville Public High School”.) Which means the answer to “Who raised these people?” is “the State”. Which, in turn, explains a lot. When you criticize the… Read more »
Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest

Yeah… I can see that. No wonder they also hold parents who actually parent in such dripping contempt. Seething jealousy at seeing what they should have had.

Arwen Riddle
Guest

@Robin Munn. That’s so sad and it makes perfect sense.

keranih
Guest

Robin – yeah. That does make sense. And my heart hurt.

Ygolonac
Guest

Learning (or advocating) self-defense is not “blaming the victim”.

It’s straight-up announcing “FUCK YOU! I’m not going to BE a victim!”

Jeff Gauch
Guest

And THAT is the problem. Without a significant portion of the populace seeing themselves as victims, the SJW’s won’t won’t have anyone to look up to them. They’d have to rely on their talents and intelligence to get respect. IOW, they’d be screwed.

Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest

Social version of Munschausen by proxy? Yeah that idea fits.

Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest

“I will not submit”? *grin*

Wayne Blackburn
Guest

Ah, but it’s also announcing that you don’t trust the Government to protect you, and that cannot be borne.

Joe Huffman
Guest
I think the mindset you describe is extremely harmful and out of touch with reality. But I do sort of understand it. It is a cultural thing. They view taking responsibility for your own self-defense as “joining the cult of individualism”. They view rapists as someone in “the collective” who hasn’t been sufficiently indoctrinated. If only the collective had more power… Individualist are opposed to giving more power to the collective hence we, by our very nature, are opposed to what they view as a force for good. Giving individual women the power to defend themselves distinguishes them from the… Read more »
Ascher Goodrich
Guest

So they believe rapists are just people who are mentally strong enough to resist the collective hive mind and that the only solution is a more powerful hive mind? If that’s what your saying, it’s an interesting thought. Although, I am pretty sure they truly believe rape is somehow institutionalized. They are just arrogant people who refuse to admit they might possibly be wrong about something.

Joe Huffman
Guest

My hypothesis is they believe individualist “only think of what is good for themselves” and hence are predisposed to rape. Rapists need to think of what is good for the collective instead of what is good for themselves. To the extent that “institutions” encourage/allow individualists a culture of rape has been institutionalized.

Fail Burton
Guest

This just all logical gibberish to pre-convict men as a group of immoral crimes. It’s the exact same mechanism we’re seeing in SFF. You create a scarecrow, you scapegoat men, next thing you know look who’s winning the Nebula Awards.

That’s one thing, but in larger America culture this is plain dangerous, because the logical end game isn’t some awards, but discriminatory laws.

wyldewoody
Guest

Reblogged this on Wyldewoody musings and commented:
Important stuff

frompennsyltucky
Guest
Honestly, this pisses me off so much! These are the SAME PEOPLE who claim to be able to “take care” of themselves, you know, they don’t “need” a man…but they sure don’t want to take ownership of protecting themselves. It is sooooo much easier to expect EVERYONE around them to change and then whine when it doesn’t occur. Newsflash: a criminal does not care whether you have “educated” yourself on the “rape culture”. Where exactly is this pink little crime-free world supposed to come from? And how in the hell is making sure that you can defend yourself as a… Read more »
Martialartsmama
Guest

That is brilliant! I already love posting pictures of me at my tae kwon do classes, and now adding #notaf-ingvictim will make posting them that much more fun!

saintonge235
Guest
frompennsyltucky wrote: “Honestly, this pisses me off so much! These are the SAME PEOPLE who claim to be able to ‘take care’ of themselves, you know, they don’t ‘need’ a man…but they sure don’t want to take ownership of protecting themselves.” Yup. Back in the late seventies, I researched rape for a college class, and found out that about half of all rapes that occurred in the U.S. involved a man breaking into the home of a single woman, and about another ten percent started with a man hiding in the back seat of a woman’s car and ambushing her… Read more »
Quilly
Guest

Putting a lock on your door means you support burglary.

Tarl
Guest

If you leave your wallet on the front doorstep and someone steals it, that is the thief’s fault, not yours! We must teach people not to steal!

Kristophr
Guest

( socialist think ) It’s your fault for having more money than the theif, and not freely giving it to him, you capitalist pig.

DaveP.
Guest

Kris, I remember the ’70s and that’s almost verbatim the attitude the ‘elites’ had about crime.

Kristophr
Guest

I was born in ’61. Been there, got the t-shirt.

Alpheus
Guest
Actually, it *is* the thief’s fault. No one should be taking wallets, let alone taking them from your front porch. Having said that, since I don’t want my wallet to be stolen, I do my best to keep it in my pocket, or at least on my night stand. And if I do forget, and accidentally leave my wallet on the porch, and it gets stolen, I’m still going to insist that the thief, if caught, should have charges brought against him! (And this is why taking common sense measures to prevent victimization isn’t “blaming the victim”: rape is wrong,… Read more »
Jay Stevens
Guest

Remember the old “Lock your car. Don’t let a good boy go bad.” campaign? New flash! A good boy will not steal your car.

NKR
Guest
It all started as astroturf. There are these groups for the prevention of “sexual assault” that rake in the bucks. They have to spread this “rape culture” meme. And, sadly, there are a lot of shrill harpies out there who love to be part of that club. Colleges have expanded the definition of “sexual assault” so many men have no idea what they’ve done to be called up to the tribunal. Luckily, some of these guys have pluck and they’re suing now, which I support and celebrate. When making eye contact is considered “sexual harassment” and proof of “rape culture”,… Read more »
Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest

On the note of “eye contact = sexual harassment” vein… there’s this piece of news.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/06/09/13/16/woman-attacks-man-on-public-beach-for-using-drone

The only other bit I could find on it was on The Daily Mail. Funny that…

kengray
Guest

Maybe it’s me but I’m having a hard time figuring out where you stand on this issue. X0D

Hmmm….maybe that’s why I’m liking MHI series so much; it seems to be the little guy getting the field level and getting some back.

Go Skippy! oo/

Wes S.
Guest
The problem with this “rape culture” nonsense, first of all, is that the academic Left has expanded the term “rape” to include a hell of a lot of consensual sex…and behavior that has nothing to do with sex or violence at all. As an example of the mindset at work here, I present one academic’s “profile” of a “typical collegiate rapist:” >”After that night, the accuser spoke with several Occidental employees, including Danielle Dirks, an assistant professor of sociology. Dirks told the accuser that Doe “fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA… Read more »
NKR
Guest

It’s not about teaching anyone not to rape, it’s about expanding the definition so you can call it an epidemic. Then you get the hashtags and the organizations and the dollars rolling in. All at the expense of a generation of people (both men and women) who will be severely damaged by this crap. Can you imagine trying to date in this atmosphere?

Wes S.
Guest

The question was purely rhetorical. And yes, you might be safer trying to clear a Waziristan minefield with a pointed stick, then trying to pick up a coed on a modern American college campus these days.

Of course, while the Left demands we teach boys not to rape, they’re also all about teaching teenage girls about the joys of sadomasochistic OH JOHN RINGO NO sex.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/06/10/video-planned-parenthood-sex-education-everything-youd-guess-it-would-be/

*facepalm*

Jared Anders
Guest

If this continues on for much longer it won’t just be us religious types who simply swear off sex until marriage.

I’m fine with that. A rather large number of young men and women won’t be, but what else are they going to do?

Personally I think (hope) a lot of the people who believe this crap are simply well intentioned idiots, but that hardly matters against the reality of how freaking messed up its making my generation.

Jeff Jonsson
Guest

Larry, as usual, you have eloquently said everything I’ve been thinking. I’d say I want to subscribe to your newsletter, but, I guess I already do. Thank You.

Cranky McBasstard
Guest
Funny, in my defensive driving course way back when I drove for Fed Ex, I was SUPPOSSED to make eye contact with oncoming traffick to make sure they saw me. Both Men and WOMEN. I guess that was rape as well. I don’t have a little girl, I have a son. A great kid with a good heart that cares about others. And we’ve been teaching him to be a man, following those same prinsciples. If I had a daughter, i’d teach her the same things…. be aware of your surroundings, panick is natural but often counter to what you… Read more »
Greg "Blotto" Garrett
Guest
Greg "Blotto" Garrett
“Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.” – John Kenneth Galbraith That being said, how far into cognitive dissonance do you have to be before (advocating self defense = blame the victim) makes sense? Only slightly facetiously, I’m surprised that NOW isn’t more pro-gun, or at least pro-self-defense. What’s more empowering to the sex with less muscle mass, a firearm that levels the playing field, or believing that rapists are just a few sensitivity classes away from respect? Expanding on this “logic”… Read more »
saintonge235
Guest
Greg “Blotto” Garrett wrote: “There is no transitive property of guilt or empathy. Just because you are vulnerable to these emotions does not in any way confer the same thing to criminals who might prey upon you. That seems to be one of the fundamental failures of liberal ‘logic’ in this case.” It’s a human failing, not a liberal one. ‘Everyone is really exactly like me’ can be found in many places. For example, when whites expanded across the continent, the majority thought of the Amerinds as sub-human because they didn’t yearn to live like whites. A minority saw that… Read more »
blottogg
Guest
“It’s a human failing, not a liberal one. ‘Everyone is really exactly like me’ can be found in many places.” To be sure, which is why I added the qualifier “…in this case.” In a thread that’s bouncing around from Paganism to Phineas & Ferb, the last thing I wanted to do was open the discussion up further beyond the original topic. Having said that, you are of course correct that limited perception knows no political bounds. I oppose belief and champion reason wherever and whenever I can. Dehumanizing opponents has also long been a staple of both “good” and… Read more »
perlhaqr
Guest
Larry: I think there’s a disconnect between the words that group is using, and the meaning you’re deriving from them. When they say “teach men not to rape”, I suspect you’re mostly thinking of “held at knifepoint and dragged into an alley by a stranger” rape. But there is lots of rape in the world that doesn’t fit that narrative, from molestation of children by authority figures to date rape. I think a better way of phrasing the statement would be “ensure that men know what constitutes rape”. And when they speak of “rape culture”, they are not talking solely… Read more »
Tarl
Guest

when they speak of “rape culture”, they are not talking solely of forcible sexual penetration.

Such an attempt to redefine rape should be rejected out of hand – it is false and is a slap in the face to those who are victims of the real crime.

I’m talking about women being groped, catcalled, followed, aggressively leered at, etc.

Sorry chief, but none of that is rape.

T.L. Knighton
Guest

Sorry chief, but none of that is rape.

Exactly. Not all boorish behavior raises to the level of rape. To equate it all as even similar is an insult to real rape victims.

Ascher Goodrich
Guest

If this is the new definition of rape then I really need to talk to a lawyer. I am a young man and I have been repeatedly,”groped, catcalled, followed, aggressively leered at, etc.” by members of the fairer sex. Did I get raped and didn’t even know it?

Just want to add I am not in any way trying to detract from women who have experienced this sort of behavior from men and suffered for it. I’m just trying to point out that these actions aren’t rape.

Joel Salomon
Guest

If they meant “catcall culture”, they should have said so. The term “rape culture” was invented to leave people unable to distinguish annoyance from assault from actual rape.

This works two ways: Harassment—or even “gaze”—can now be treated as rape (inflating minor injuries, or minimizing rape, or both); and disagreement with the concept of “rape culture” can now be taken as support for “rape culture”. Because #logic.

Paul (Drak Bibliophile) Howard
Guest
Paul (Drak Bibliophile) Howard
“sexually oriented misbehaviour towards women”? The problem is that “sexually oriented misbehaviour towards women” can include “looking at a woman the wrong way” which in turn means anything a woman wants it to mean. Sorry, not only do I disagree with your claim concerning stuff that a reasonable person would call “sexually oriented misbehaviour towards women”, I’m saying that the term “sexually oriented misbehaviour towards women” is badly misused by Leftish women. Years ago, I heard of a study on “violence against women” where a man getting angry and leaving the room was considered “violence against women”. IMO this sort… Read more »
dgarsys
Guest

Under sexually oriented misbehavior, there’s an SNL skit that is “funny but its true” with Tom Brady about how to avoid a sexual harassment skit, playing off of how women often let attractive men/jerks get away with behavior that gets other men labeled as “creeps”.

transcript here as I couldn’t get to the video from my current site: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/04/04qfunhouse.phtml

Announcer: See? It can be done. You can have sex with women at work without losing your job, by following a few simple rules:

[ the rules are displayed on-screen with accompanying check marks ]

Be Handsome..

Be Attractive..

and Don’t Be Unattractive.

NR Pax
Guest

So he should hire a translator first to explain the layers of meaning behind stupid shit like this?

T.L. Knighton
Guest

You can’t really translate gibberish into English.

Tarl
Guest

You can’t really translate gibberish into English.

Yes but you can have a prize-winning debate team that speaks nothing but gibberish!

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/how-to-speak-gibberish-win-a-national-debate-title/

NR Pax
Guest

Hey, Google Translate does it…Hm. Never mind; that’s Norwegian.

Heather
Guest
Let me reply as a woman. Perlhaqr, sexual misbehavior is not rape. The very things these fainting flowers of sheltered femininity (who scream they are independent and need no one) claim to rial against, they are promoting. They are teaching men it is not worth it to be a gentleman. They scream about men opening doors, they indulge in far cruder catcalls than most men will indulge in, they wear clothing designed to catch the eye (then whine that they got looked at), they complain bitterly after being propositioned when wearing teeny shorts with ‘F* Me!’ spelled out in big… Read more »
Woelf Dietrich
Guest

I think I read somewhere, probably on twitter, that we men are guilty of eye-raping woman.

Mike
Guest

The thing is, even provided that you accept every single argument they have about the definition of rape, about needing to teach men to not “rape” under that definition, and about changing the rape culture…

Teaching girls to defend themselves for now, until the wonderful future day where we have successfully rehabilitated the entire world, is NOT blaming the victim!

There is nothing incompatible with their definition of rape culture and the concept of armed self defense for women. It only becomes one when you raise up this cult of helpless victimhood.

Greg "Blotto" Garrett
Guest
Greg "Blotto" Garrett
I learned in sexual harassment awareness training while still in the Air Force (yes, I actually stayed awake and paid attention to the degree that I remembered something) that the power to define sexual harassment lies with the victim, not the perpetrator. That makes sense to a degree (certainly more so than deferring to the alleged harasser), but giving all the legal power to the alleged victim opens up the door for reverse abuse. Giving women the power to unilaterally abuse men in court would help prosecute and possibly deter rape, but at the cost of giving them the power… Read more »
Underwhelmed
Guest

That was glorious. Thank you.

brianniemeier
Guest

If we’re talking about context, Miss Sanchez’s original comments were made in response to a question about sexual assault. It’s her critics who are distorting her words to fit their narrative.

Synova
Guest

But you see, perlhagr, men who can be taught not to rape were already not rapists. By redefining rape to catcalls, they are, in fact, denying *rape*. Now it means catcalls.

So a choice has been made to keep women vulnerable to rapists… so that they can focus on the gropers, catcallers, and drunk sexers.

I honestly don’t think that it is possible that there is an excuse for that.

Kristophr
Guest

Most of these retards are redefining rape in intensely silly ways. Apparently their goal is to classify all male vaginal penetration as rape.

Don’t feed these retards by rationalizing their retardation.

Wayne Blackburn
Guest

Oh, there are some who fully admit that they believe that any of what we would call “normal intercourse” is rape. Search for “PIV is Rape” if your blood pressure can stand it.

mikeweatherford
Guest
When I was a kid growing up, I was taught to respect women — all women. I found that respecting women and treating them with respect and dignity was the greatest “date bait” in the world. I won’t say I had to fight ’em off (my face is pictured in the dictionary under “ugly mug”), but I found women easy to date, and had a great time with them. Of course, I’m 67 years old, and grew up with the dinosaurs, but going back to the culture of mutual respect would cut out a lot of this crap that’s going… Read more »
Ascher Goodrich
Guest
@Lea- “I have to say I don’t agree that you shouldn’t forgive people. I think forgiveness is a thing we do for ourselves, as much as for others. Because hatred and bitterness eats away at you and can turn you into someone you don’t want to be.” I don’t believe forgiveness is appropriate for rape. I agree that hatred and bitterness can be bad for a person in the long run(although they can help a person cope in the short run). That is why people have to come to terms with the fact that they were raped. This isn’t the… Read more »
randall rapp
Guest

My personal opinion is its a different version of munchausen’s syndrome, where people make themselves sick to get sympathy and pity from others. “Its okay if I don’t work hard and people take care of me, I’m a victim.”

dgarsys
Guest

Keeping in mind a lady is not likely to deal well in a toe-to-toe slugfest sans firearms (there’s a reason for weight classes in wrestling and boxing…), self defense training of the hand-to-hand variety should probably focus on (how to) break contact and run…

on the “victim blaming” – years ago on FB I commented that I lacked a certain Lady Gaga song, but not one of her earlier breakouts (just dance”) because the viewpoint character in that (semi-deliberately lost her friends, keys, wallet, cell phone, and did not care) was being hideously irresponsible.

I got blocked for “victim blaming”

mikeweatherford
Guest
The key there is not going “toe-to-toe” with the guy, but inflicting enough pain and agony he looks for an easier victim. If he’s clutching his genitals and has a broken kneecap, he’s not going to chase you very far. Slamming his nose up through his sinuses into his brain is another very effective method of “inflicting pain”. I don’t know ANY recognized martial art, but I taught my daughters how to inflict pain and agony, and to run and hide. They may not be able to escape the guy chasing them, but they may get enough of a head… Read more »
saintonge235
Guest
No, men as a class can outrun women, even when the women are wearing sensible shoes. So if you see a threat and can evade, great, but the most important lesson for self-defense is that once you decide to do violence, you continue till the attacker is physically unable to continue their assault. Twice in my life I got beaten up because I was in a fight and really didn’t want to hurt the person I was fighting. Recovering from the second beating, it occurred to me that “they don’t matter”, “they” being anyone who attacked me. From then on,… Read more »
Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest
Twice in my life I got beaten up because I was in a fight and really didn’t want to hurt the person I was fighting. Recovering from the second beating, it occurred to me that “they don’t matter”, “they” being anyone who attacked me. I’ve had … interesting… conversations with some teenagers over the last couple of months and your story reminded me of one of them. Good kid, took studies more seriously than the average teen, and as the eldest took care of his younger siblings because his parents worked night shift jobs. Without getting into too much detail… Read more »
dgarsys
Guest
Not directly tied to rape, but there is a case in FL where a guy dropped by his exes house (the mother in law was there as well) to pick up his kids. Argument ensued, driven almost entirely by mom in law who shot him repeatedly (and with poor aim) with a small-caliber pistol. MIL and daughter then reported that he had come over all belligerent, and they had to shoot him in self defense, etc. Police bought it hook, line, and sinker. Fortunately when he woke up in the hospital dye later, he could tell the police that he… Read more »
Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest
The growing numbers of crazy entitled narcissists and borderlines who are willing to lie through their teeth and destroy people and their lives and livelihood when they don’t get what they want, Oh yeah… don’t get me started on the sheer amounts of crazy women I’ve encountered on Lineage II. They angle mostly for getting a guy to fall for them based on a fake persona, gunning for gifts and money. If the guy falls out of love for them… The most terrifying of the lot that I’d been witnessing from the periphery of was this super fugly woman (both… Read more »
thewriterinblack
Guest
On a somewhat tangential note, to illustrate just how “out there” this stuff can get. I just saw an argument about the Disney Movie “Tangled.” It seems that “hair” is supposed to be a symbol for virginity* which makes Flynn’s cutting Rapunzel’s hair in the climax–since he “forced” it on her–a “rape scene.” What? To keep her free from a lifetime of servitude to the witch (Rapunzel _always_ keeps her promises) he sacrifices his own chance at life. He takes an action that, so far as he knows, will leave him dead, but Rapunzel free. There are people who read… Read more »
Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest
While insane for the context of the story of Tangled this is valid in other stories, such as in Katanagatari where Rape of the Lock was viewed as being the same as sexual rape (the setting being based in a fantastical feudal Japan, and the characters in the story reacted as if the female character was raped. There is no indication that this is the case in the world of Tangled however, so the bitching about cutting Rapunzel’s hair isn’t valid (nor is the bit about the corona/crown, since in this case Corona refers to the sun symbology that surrounds… Read more »
blottogg
Guest
“In place of practicing wholesome self-abnegation, we ever make the wish the father to the thought: we receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us; whereas the very reverse is required by every dictate of common sense.” – Michael Faraday If you start with a belief, and subsequently deny any information to the contrary, there is no limit to the nonsense you can accept as true. This “belief over reason” is my personal arch-villain, even though I’m still susceptible to it myself. While I’d hoped the internet would facilitate facts over belief, in… Read more »
joehuffman
Guest
Once, in extreme frustration, I asked my crazy (probably Borderline Personality Disorder) (now ex-) wife how she determined truth from falsity. Her answer was, “It depends on how I feel.” She was serious. When I would attempt to point out that her version of reality did not match physical reality she would get anger and claim, “You always have to get your own way!” She was serious. Words meant what she wanted them to mean at that particular moment. One time she called and asked me to pick up her sister at the airport. “I can probably do that. Which… Read more »
Dave W.
Guest

Wow….. all I can say to that is ‘how the hell did you last 38 years?’

Patrick Chester
Guest
Oh yeah… don’t get me started on the sheer amounts of crazy women I’ve encountered on Lineage II. They angle mostly for getting a guy to fall for them based on a fake persona, gunning for gifts and money *reads example further but not quoting it here* So… this is a player you could confirm is an actual woman and not a guy w/a female character? ^_^;; (Since I have a few female characters in SWTOR. The female Smuggler voice is, as I put it, full of snarky awesome.) (This does make me wonder about the two female characters dancing… Read more »
Dave W.
Guest

G.I.R.L. = Guy In Real Life :-p

Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest
Voice chat, phone and skype were amongst the mediums used to communicate with the victim. Now the people who got hurt / were trying to help the guy all lived near each other – I didn’t (hence me saying I was on the periphery as I only saw parts of what was occurring in game) all belonged to the same clan and voice chat was required to coordinate play. They said she was a woman. And the couple who had CS sicced on them were able to get that a woman had called CS to report the ‘abuse’. They weren’t… Read more »
Dave W.
Guest

That’s pretty shameful. Hope she gets what’s coming to her someday. :-/

Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest
I know the rest of the gang knew she was a girl because she would insist that her victim call her, put his phone in his shirt pocket, so she could listen in on all the conversations, to make sure she wasn’t the topic. They discovered this when she started screaming into the phone when the topic DID veer into talking about her. The guy was very, very brainwashed. I think she suddenly, abruptly ceased all communications when it seemed like the group of friends were looking into trying for prosecution, but this is early on and it’s still difficult… Read more »
Dave W.
Guest

0.o….. I’m not sure ‘brainwashed’ is a strong enough term. SMDH….

Y’know, I’m suddenly curious: did he offer any justification to his friends for doing that? What possible moronic excuse could he come up with?

Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest

I think she originally posed wanting to listen in… in more ‘cute’ terms – ‘I don’t wanna feel left out’ or ‘It’d be like I’m going with you!’ and such; and that they originally knew she was listening in. But she kept quiet and they eventually forgot that she was… so…

Patrick Chester
Guest

I know the rest of the gang knew she was a girl because she would insist that her victim call her, put his phone in his shirt pocket, so she could listen in on all the conversations, to make sure she wasn’t the topic.

Um… 😮

joehuffman
Guest

Dave W.:

Wow….. all I can say to that is ‘how the hell did you last 38 years?’

As my counselor said when I told her I had decided to get divorced, “Mere mortals would have left years ago.”

In hindsight there were signs from before we got married. Her Mom, especially, demonstrated the same symptoms. But hindsight is so much better than foresight.

And it happened somewhat slowly over the years. A boiled frog and all that.

CombatMissionary
Guest

Names have been changed to protect the innocent. 😉
A parental figure we’ll call “Bob” once told me that if you want to see what a woman will look like in 25 years, look at her mom.

Maybe we should amend that to, “If you want to see how a woman will treat her husband…”

Ree1
Guest
@Combat Missionary… Like he said- hindsight is 20/20. But he does prove a point on relationships and people. Not all disfunctional relationships start that way. They evolve and grow, and it takes two people. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. That being said, I respect your faith, and I do agree with waiting on intimacy until you know the person, but again, as humans we all change over time, and sometimes for the worse. When I married, I looked to see how he treated his mother. He treated her like gold. We enjoyed her company, and… Read more »
CombatMissionary
Guest
I’m not making any judgments about you or your situation, sorry if it came across that way. Clearly we can’t control everything. I would be stupid to suggest that. All we can do is try to live our lives to minimize the odds of getting into horrible situations. They’re not always avoidable. Sometimes great people change despite taking precautions. Sometimes horrible people change. But if we’re careful with our conduct, we can minimize our chances of becoming a statistic. Even if I wasn’t religious, avoiding sex before marriage can avoid a huge range of problems, and the further our world… Read more »
Ree1
Guest
@CombatMissionary Thank you for the clarification. It did come across a bit judgmental. But then again, I have a candy red button that says, “instant temper- lump me in with the idiots…” Sorry. I resent the men and women in our culture who have made themselves such well known examples that the rest of us who are, for lack of a better term, stable. I can’t say normal, as ‘normal’ is what society dictates is the general acceptable behavior. Which is what started this conversation in the first place, no? Anytime I hear of a woman spouting such nonsense as… Read more »
CombatMissionary
Guest
Yeah, I was afraid of that. Fifteen years in the military has NOT done good things for my personality. I tend to be the kind of guy, these days, that would say something like, “Hey, STUPID! For Pete’s sake, you moron, if you would just live your life like THIS, you’d be a lot happier! I’m telling you this because I care about you, you knucklehead!” and genuinely mean it. So, yeah, I tend to sound fairly arrogant sometimes. I’m working on it. I think I’m gradually evolving into the kind of guy who would say, “Come on, dummy, let’s… Read more »
Icarusflu
Guest
I have a 12 year old son and I am worried about what the world will be like for him as he gets older and starts dating. Look at whatnhas been happening to college campuses with the change is sexual assault rules. Men (or really boys) are being accused of rape, put up before campus courts, not allowed to defend themselves, and convicted sexual assult with a “preponderance of the evidence” (50.01%). We haven’t been able to teach all men to read. We haven’t been able to teach all men to take responsibility for themselves. We haven’t been able to… Read more »
Synova
Guest

Enroll him in Tae Kwon Do so he can meet girls. (Well… enroll him now, so he can meet girls there later.)

Kristophr
Guest

Krav Maga, or even Karate. Most Tae Kwon Do schools are non-contact, and wont teach a student how to take a blow and keep fighting.

If you can find a Tae Kwon Do school that does full contact, go for it.

Dan
Guest

Through various conversations with my 6 year old daughter about when to fight and when not to she will proudly tell you that if someone was trying to take her away she would “kick them in the pee-pee” and generally cause as much harm as possible. I hope my daughter never has to do that. If she has to I will support that decision. Yes, it is sad that she may have to defend herself. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to teach her to.

T.L. Knighton
Guest
I mocked someone yesterday – in fact, I think it’s one of the ones Larry quotes above – by saying we should also teach robber to not rob. The stupid twit said she agreed with that also. I nearly gave myself a concussion from the facepalm. Seriously, what these people need to understand is that you can not account for what someone else has or hasn’t been taught. Even if you could, you can’t account for what they will or won’t do with that teaching. The only thing you can be responsible for is what you do or don’t do.… Read more »
Kristophr
Guest

Rabbits survive by overbreeding.

Alpheus
Guest

Yes, but aren’t these also the types that believe all PIV sex is rape, and that it’s a moral and just thing to abort children, especially if having a child while young will destroy your all-important career (and especially so if you stay at home and have five or six children, rather than wait until your career is established, and have one or two)?

Overbreeding doesn’t strike me as an option for these folk….

Arwen Riddle
Guest

I’ve seen the argument that by behaving responsibly, avoiding dark alleys and other sketchy areas, and caution when drinking, that *you* are making sure the rapist rapes the other girl.

I just cannot fathom the level of crazy required to come up with that conclusion.

T.L. Knighton
Guest
Seriously? When police educate folks on how to prevent break-ins, some officers will be honest and say that you’re not going to deter a burglar from breaking into someone’s home. You’re just trying to make sure your house looks like an uninviting target so they’ll move on to someone else’s house. The truth is, no one gets worked up about that, because if everyone makes their house uninviting to a burglar, the burglars will have to do something else. It’s the same thing with rapists. If it’s my daughter, I want her to look like a bad idea to a… Read more »
Bruce
Guest

As Mr. Miyagi said, the best way to avoid a punch is to not be there.

Maybe there is some truth to behaving responsibly is making sure the rapist rapes the other girl. I would happily look my daughter (if I had one) in the eye and tell her, “Good. I’m glad you weren’t the victim. You were not, are not, and never will be responsible for the actions of that other girl. You didn’t get raped because you were smart and did the right thing. Good.”

Dave W.
Guest

*blank stare* *closes own jaw with a click*

Un-freaking-believable……

Tarl
Guest

*you* are making sure the rapist rapes the other girl.

Well… if it’s a choice between my daughter and some other girl… so be it!

thewriterinblack
Guest

Well… if it’s a choice between my daughter and some other girl… so be it!

If my daughter, or your daughter, shoots the rapist’s pecker off (okay, okay, little teeny-tiny target with the stress of being on the receiving end of an attempted rape messing up ones marksmanship. Center of mass works too) then no other girls will be raped either–not by that rapist anyway.

Win win.

Greg "Blotto" Garrett
Guest
Greg "Blotto" Garrett

Sort of like the t-shirt for DADD (Dad’s Against Daughters Dating):
“Shoot the first one, and the word will spread.”

Joseph Capdepon II
Guest

Predators look for easy prey. If you present yourself as a hard target, they will move on and find easier prey. They don’t want a struggle or have to worry about getting shot or stabbed or hurt. They want a docile victim who will do what they tell them to do.

It doesn’t always work that way of course, but for the most part, that is what criminals go after.

saintonge235
Guest

Yeah, predation WORKS, if the prey is weak enough. The carnivores eat the herbivores. The only herbivores that aren’t preyed upon are those so tough they’d probably kill or seriously injure the carnivore.

Refusing to see that truth seems to be a large part of the “liberal” mindset.

Ryan
Guest

I’ve gotten the same response in discussions, namely, that by avoiding rape one is causing someone else to become a victim. I asked if I lock my doors at night, am I forcing my neighbor to be burglarized?

Predictably, I was immediately accused of equating women with property. Because, logic. Or something.

Kristophr
Guest

Typical libtard arguing. If you are caught in a logical fallacy, change the subject by accusing your opponent of being a racist or a misogynist, or a nazi, or something else bad.

I don ‘t remember what number that one is on Larry’s list.

Synova
Guest

“….by behaving responsibly…*you* are making sure the rapist rapes the other girl.”

This is dumb… it’s true though… it’s a little bit like if you don’t want to be eaten by a bear you only have to run faster than the slowest person. So… true-ish but mindbogglingly irrelevant.

Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest

Uh… seriously, and there is no other way to say this: what the fuck? I am NOT going to make myself a victim to ‘protect someone else from being raped. If it’s going to be someone, I’m darned gonna try make sure it’s not going to be me or mine getting hurt. I’m not responsible for the irresponsible moron who floats along with glitterdust on the brain thinking nothing will EVER HAPPEN TO HER. I cannot be the mom to the whole world.

But I will try to take care of my corner of it.

Foxfier
Guest

Who do they think are setting the rape quotas that will be filled– no more, no less?

Since that’s kinda required for the logic to work.

Mary
Guest

“*you* are making sure the rapist rapes the other girl.”

Nonsense. The other girl is by not taking the same precautions.

The Phantom
Guest
I have maintained for a very long time now that all girls should be issued a .38 snubbie at age 16 and attend mandatory classes and range time at school. A statist imposition upon the freedoms of our youth its true, but one that would change the fabric of our society for the better. Girls I have had the honor of taking care of learned to defend themselves with gun, knife, stick, empty hand. They learn to spot trouble before it starts, they learn how to escape and how to hide effectively. They learn when to run and when to… Read more »
rocinante2
Guest

Yes. They aren’t mistaken; it’s *everyone else* who needs to change. The world isn’t to their liking; they demand it change to suit them.

What’s that called again? Starts with an “N”, named after a figure in Greek mythology who stared at his own reflection until he starved to death…

freeholder45
Guest

Narcissus, I think you are thinking of.

Eleanor
Guest

I think you have a point. They are not stupid; they are lazy. If the SJWs agreed with you about taking responsibility, the next step down the logic chain is to do a self-assessment (Am I taking responsibility?). The answer is usually “Hell no!” and that leads to guilt and, hopefully, action. All way too strenuous. Much easier just to loll back and feel superior.

The Phantom
Guest

Also, more excuse to expand government. Very important.

Mike
Guest

It’s too horribly statist for me to support it, but you could solve a hell of a lot of social problems by giving every girl a free UID and pistol.

Kenton Kilgore
Guest

There’s a scene in my YA fantasy novel (intended for girls, btw) where the mom walks her older daughter, step-by-step, through how to fire a pistol. When I was writing it, all I thought was that I was setting up two scenes later on, when the daughter defends herself and her younger sister. Now I’m thinking I did a public service. 🙂

Mea culpa: I have not yet taught my daughters to shoot. But I will.

The Phantom
Guest
Six year old girls can shoot a .22 if you hover over them and make sure they don’t point it the wrong way. And by hover I mean your hand is never more than an inch or two from the pistol. They LOVE it too. Four year olds can understand the combat mind set. Its a natural state of being, after all. Four year olds can also understand and learn the various wrist locks, escapes, balance, stepping and etc of any martial art. It doesn’t have to be Super Serious Lessons either. Its a game. If you make a game… Read more »
Kenton Kilgore
Guest

One issue I’m having is that my younger daughter has orthopedic issues that limit her mobility and strength. She has great grip strength, but I don’t know if she’ll be able to pull back a slide or handle the recoil even a very small pistol.

Andrew
Guest

I’ve got a variety of orthopedic problems, though I have good upper body strength. If drawing the slide is a concern, revolver is always an option. Providing her arms and grip are average, she should be able to handle a sufficient self defense round. While personally a fan of the .45, even a .32 is better than loading out with wishful thinking.

Kenton Kilgore
Guest

Her upper body strength is poor: she’s all of 4’5 and 65 lbs at 15 years of age (her condition–arthrogryposis–severely limits muscle growth AND has joint contractures. Yay.). But a revolver might be an option.

Kenton Kilgore
Guest

Larry, if you’re ever stuck for blog ideas, I’d love to see a piece on self-defense for people with disabilities. 🙂

TXRed
Guest

Kenton, I still have a lot of trouble working the action on Glocks et al. I like my revolvers. The snubbie kicks like a mule (hey, it’s a snubbie), but my larger Ruger is well-balanced and easy to handle, with a smooth trigger action. It’s a little big for on-person concealed carry at my size, but for at-home defense and shooting at the range, it’s fantastic.

The Phantom
Guest
Kenton, as it happens I am (among other things) a physical therapist with some background in shooting for the disabled. My interest was using shooting as a therapeutic exercise for people with brain, spinal cord and nerve damage. It can be beneficial, depending on the patient. Even if it doesn’t change their condition much its still a giggle and an outing, which is usually worth it all by itself. The condition you describe for your daughter, she may not do particularly well with any pistol or revolver due to upper body strength. Even small pistols are heavy when you hold… Read more »
Kenton Kilgore
Guest

Phantom, thanks for the link. And yes, she has had plenty of PT (our other daughter is studying that in college) and has had a myofascial release: it fixed her torticollis! 🙂

The Phantom
Guest
Torticolis, forsooth! You guys are having way too much fun. Reminds me of sitting with one of my patients in the lobby waiting for his bus ride back to the nursing facility. This guy was a quadriplegic in a power wheel chair. I was pouring Coke into his mouth for him because he couldn’t hold the can. Outside on the sidewalk a woman goes by in a power wheelchair. Guided by a Seeing Eye dog. My patient looks at me and says: “Every time you think you’re really fucked, you see something like that.” I think about that guy every… Read more »
Ori Pomerantz
Guest
I used to think that teaching men not to rape was a silly idea. But I can see how the Tom Kratman tutorial(1) might drive the point home. To motivate rapists not to kill their victim, a murder in his system gets you free “come to Jesus” crucifixion experience, while a live victim can forgive you and reduce your punishment to mere hanging. Of course, it is well known in education circles that the shorter the time between action and feedback the better it is pedagogically. An immediate bullet wound, even if it doesn’t kill, would do wonders for people’s… Read more »
Alpheus
Guest

Yes, you are right: impalement for rapists would drive the point home.

But could you imagine how much squirming a typical Social Justice Weenie (it’s weenie, right, and not warrior? ;.) would go through, when this idea is proposed to them?

Matthew Carberry (@CarberryMatthew)
Guest
Matthew Carberry (@CarberryMatthew)
The “lumping in of all types of rape” is insidious and deliberate and needs to be called out more often. Rape is rape in the end, but you can’t address it intelligently without differentiating the contexts in which it occurs. Victims who -feel- blameworthy due to recognizing they didn’t make good choices can be “forgiven” and brought into the fold (thus increasing the numbers and political influence) by rad-fems with an agenda by wrapping them in the same mantle as those who did absolutely everything right, without ever having to address their own choices. That kind of moral absolution will… Read more »
Mike Pusateri
Guest

This is liberalism 101. Take NO responsibility for doing anything for yourself, it’s always someone else’s job to do things for you.

Honestly I’m astonished some of them can still look themselves in the eye in the mirror every morning.

sianmink
Guest

Yep.
Rapists gonna rape. Violent criminals gonna violent crime. Politely asking them not to , and expecting that to work, is akin to legitimizing their life choices as something other than the socially unacceptable indecency that it is. The way to destroy ‘Rape Culture’ is to make it far too risky and costly for the rapists to continue. Denying the ugly side of human nature won’t make it go away; you have to hit it in the face with a rock.

Catherine
Guest

I want to read how these feminist think tankers reconcile the fact that it’s bad to use self-defense on a rapist but good to abort a baby that’s the result of a rape.

The Childlike Author
Guest
Miss Nevada [thumbs down] Sick of hearing “women need to learn selfdefense from sexual violence” We need a culture [in which] we don’t have to defend ourselves from [sexual violence.] You know, Colleen Gibbons has a point, poorly phrased (not just grammatically), but a point nevertheless. We do need a culture free from sexual violence. Unfortunately that culture is a long way away, and, for that matter, may never occur. Throwing down our swords and shields and tearing down the walls of our cities in the midst of attack merely because we want a future culture that is free from… Read more »
Anthony
Guest

We’re more likely to get a culture in which we don’t have to defend ourselves from sexual violence if we make sure that most people are *able* to defend themselves against sexual violence. I’ll bet that the guy Damien Walter’s mom pushed off the wall, if he survived, was a whole lot more circumspect after that.

Joel Salomon
Guest

Not Damien’s mom; someone else in his Twitter feed.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool
Two points. One, it is probably more correct to say we want such a thing, rather than needing it. Secondly, barring interventions necessarily innately religious, like the New Jerusalem, a ‘society free of crime’ is exactly as feasible as a ‘society free of violence’, is exactly as feasible as a ‘society free of sexual violence’, and is exactly as feasible as a ‘society free of fornication’. If you do not think we can create a society where sex only happens between married adults, one man and one woman, for the purpose of procreation, or would not support such, it would… Read more »
Joseph Capdepon II
Guest

I’m pretty cynical when it comes to humanity.

Such a culture will never exist. Now perhaps you could have areas where such things were rare, but people who rape, murder, steal, etc will always exist where there are human beings concentrated together into cities.

Free-range Oyster
Guest

Because I am a huge geek, I’m reminded of the revelation from Sanderson’s The Way of Kings. *SPOILERS* The king wants to follow the titular book-within-a-book, The Way of Kings, but he finally discovers that the book was written after the author had fought his way to peace and stability for his kingdom. He had to do the messy, unpleasant business of war first, then he could implement those peacetime ideals. Trying to use that peacetime pattern in a deeply confrontational culture, in a time of war, was only leading him to disaster.

Wesley Nichols
Guest

You mean the King’s Uncle Dalinar? King Elhokar is pretty useless.

Free-range Oyster
Guest

Yes, that’s who I meant. Protagonist, not king.

SteveS
Guest
I can understand that there are some elements of “rape culture” that exist and that a small number of people are ok with initiating non-consensual sexual contact, but I don’t believe that this is part of mainstream culture. It certainly isn’t part of the criminal justice system. I can’t speak for the laws in other states, but the laws in my state punish people that engage in the types of behaviors I describe above. I have no problem with society or groups addressing these issues, but it is magical thinking to expect it to stop all criminal behavior. I think… Read more »
The Phantom
Guest

Larry said: “There may not be some big systematic culture like the perpetual victims imagine…”

There is, actually. Its called Pakistan. Also other places in the Middle East and Africa. And Mexico. And South America. Pretty much every place in the world except Western Nations, really. Rape is considered on the same level as shoplifting.

That’s just one more reason to laugh at Multi-Culti college girls getting their knickers in a twist over the Rape Culture Of America. Can’t beat them PoC for rape culture.

Fail Burton
Guest

I’m pretty sure the Third World is not a rape party.

Danny Harbison
Guest

You would be wrong. In most of the Muslim world, it’s legal to execute a woman for the crime of adultery after she’s been raped. There have recently been several fatwas released by prominent muslim clerics who have said it’s okay to rape Western women and women not wearing the jijab. I’m afraid you’re a bit naive.

The Phantom
Guest
I’m pretty sure in Nigeria a bunch of glorified hobos is kidnapping girls from supposedly secure private schools and selling them into slavery. I’m pretty sure an entire store with one (1) woman behind the counter and nobody else in the place is an entirely unremarkable sight in most of North America and Europe. But not in India. I’m pretty sure most people in America wouldn’t think twice about sending their 19 year old daughter off to work at McDonald’s every day. Or off to college. Or off to whatever, in a car, on her own, all day long. I’m… Read more »
Joe in PNG
Guest

I wouldn’t call it a party, but in PNG, it is sadly common.
Some cultures do believe in rape as a social control- that if a woman shames a man, then the best way to regain status is to rape/beat the woman.

Fail Burton
Guest

I may be naive but I can still read a map. Most of the Third World is not Muslim.

Please define “Muslim world” as in which Islamic countries it’s legal to execute rape victims and which it is not.

Greg "Blotto" Garrett
Guest
Greg "Blotto" Garrett

Al Jazeera America just ran a story on rape, citing that rape is endemic in Syria (where a large percentage of the victims are male), Bangladesh, India, and Liberia (where they gave the statistic that 77% of women there reported being raped…and we’re not talking about getting blitzed at the cotillion and doing a “roll-scream” in bed next to a stranger the next morning). Don’t make the assumption that you can understand THE world by extending your perception of YOUR world.

Fail Burton
Guest

Women walk around on their own from Merida to San Cristobal de las Casas to Solola to San Jose to La Ceiba to Manaus to Rio to Corumba to Cochabamba to Cuzco to Jakarta to Singapore to Medan to Kota Baru to New Delhi to Varanasi to Jaisalmer to Kathmandu to Yogyakarta to Kalikbukbuk to Denpensar to Bangkok to Penang to Cairo to Seljuk. What in the world do you think those places are like – a cage match?

Fail Burton
Guest

The number of rapes in America each month is as much or double the amount in India every YEAR! And India has 4 TIMES as many people. As for the rest, Al Jazeera’s talking about war zones.

Matthew Carberry (@CarberryMatthew)
Guest
Matthew Carberry (@CarberryMatthew)
Please provide the exact criminal code definition of rape in India versus the criminal code definition in Federal and most state laws in the US, then compare with what advocates consider “rape” (hint, nowhere near the same definition, then maybe address that perhaps, just perhaps, India’s reporting system is not quite as good or accurate as ours. Cross-cultural comparisons are fraught with difficulty, one big clue is if the defense given by the perp is that it is “culturally or religiously acceptable” casting the woman as an object as opposed to individualistic and based on debates about consent, as in… Read more »
The Phantom
Guest

Not picking on you Mr. Burton, but have you seen the rape statistics coming out of good ol’ next door neighbor Mexico? Ai caramba!

The Phantom
Guest
By the way, since you mention India I have to say the government statistics there are “optimistic” to a degree that would be funny if it wasn’t rape being discussed. This is not a Mooselimb thing. Rape doesn’t get reported in India. Not by Hindus, not by Sikhs. They -really do- blame the victim down there. If a girl gets raped, she asked for it. Plain and simple. So she says nothing and hopes for the best. Women do not go out unescorted unless they are poor peasants. Of whom there are millions, of course. Another big thing they do… Read more »
Fail Burton
Guest

In fact women of all classes go all over the place on their own in India. Where are you getting this from?

The Phantom
Guest

Indians. I know a bunch.

Greg "Blotto" Garrett
Guest
Greg "Blotto" Garrett
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_India Given that two women were recently gang-raped, strangled and left hanging from a tree in rural India as they went outside to relieve themselves, I think it’s fair to assume that rape is under-reported in India. Countries with higher reported incidents of rape have nothing anywhere near this egregious occurring. Journalists report that 500M Indian citizens don’t have indoor plumbing, and that in rural areas women are fearful to go outside to relieve themselves because they’re afraid that this type of assault might happen. Bangladesh, Egypt and other non-war zones also have large numbers of rapes reported anecdotally, though… Read more »
Dave W.
Guest

I saw this on BBC news this morning. Disturbing to say the least.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27807539

Fail Burton
Guest

Well you might try going all over India for 3 months like I did. Women are walking alone in the city and the country – on trains and subways and parks and sidewalks. They’re driving alone, on buses alone. The amount of kids running around by themselves playing is staggering. Who knows what’s going on under the surface of such a staggeringly complex country of 1.2 billion people, but I never had the sense of pervasive fear.

Fail Burton
Guest

Greg, I was responding to the Al Jazeera article you yourself brought up which said 22 rapes a minute.

And my “walkabout” had nothing to do with rape, but your contention women didn’t walk around alone. In fact they do, and in great numbers.

Wex
Guest

I knew that all we had to do in Afghanistan was teach the Taliban not to be all shooty and IED-y. But did they listen? Nooooo. It was all ‘wear your body armor, carry your weapon everywhere, blah, blah, blah.’ Just feeding the terrorist culture.

Joe Huffman
Guest
I have a son and two daughters (all adults now). Before any of them could go on a date they had to complete a firearms self-defense class, a defensive knife class, a pepper spray class, and an unarmed self-defense class. I arranged for and paid for all of these classes. I told them that if anyone touched them it should be because that person had permission to do so. And made sure my kids knew they had my permission and support to enforce their boundaries even though the schools had stupid “no violence of any type at any time” policies.… Read more »
Greg Weatherford
Guest

i’m gonna go out on a limb here…but if so many of these rapes are occurring on college campus and colleges are where the final stage of this so called liberal indoctrination takes place, and that the majority of college kids are liberal, wouldn’t that make most of these rapist… Liberals?

I mean if they can throw around statistical hyperbole like they do, why can’t we use their own numbers against THEM!

jabrwok
Guest
Ascher Goodrich
Guest

Can anyone tell me how they plan on teaching rapists not to rape? I spent a little while on google and didn’t come up with anything. Now I am really curious. :/ This is my curious face.

saintonge235
Guest
Ascher Goodrich wrote: “Can anyone tell me how they plan on teaching rapists not to rape? I spent a little while on google and didn’t come up with anything. Now I am really curious.” Sure Ascher, happy to help. You see, everyone alive is identical, deep down inside. Everyone alive wants the same things, deep down inside. Rapists are just learning-disabled types who have trouble grasping that people don’t want to be raped. So you go find out the magic words, and say them, and the rapists will finally realize that people don’t want to be raped, and then it… Read more »
Ascher Goodrich
Guest

Thanks for the response. For a moment I was worried,”teaching rapists not to rape…” was completely asinine.

Joe in PNG
Guest

Just another part of the “Nerf the World” mindset.

And like most Leftist attempts to make all the bad go away, doomed to fail. If prisions can’t stop rape- what success could they attain?

Eccentric Cowboy
Guest
The mind boggles. Apparently all this time where I’ve been encouraging girls and young women to learn how to shove sharp objects into the eyes of attackers, kicking them in the groin or shooting them in the face so that they could protect themselves and not rely on the protection of men while being confident in their own abilities I was being anti-feminist! I’m so ashamed. If only I’d known that I was teaching them to be victims, and not the opposite. Perhaps I should have told them to cower in the shadows and then be proud of their actions.… Read more »
baloocartoons
Guest

Damn, you write good! I’ve quoted the first part of this and linked the rest, and also made a quibcag from it, here:

‘Now the feminists are telling us that we should “teach men not to rape.” That sounds difficult, but it’s got to be easier than teaching feminists to think.’
http://ex-army.blogspot.com/2014/06/teaching-men-not-to-rape.html

Achillea
Guest

What gets me (or one of the things that gets me) is this idiot notion that it’s an either-or proposition. Teaching rapists not to rape is a perfectly worthwhile goal, if we can figure out a way to do it. But while we’re working on that, let’s not throw out the boot-to-the-berries or bullet-in-the-face for those who haven’t gotten the message yet, m’kay?

fightscenegrades
Guest
I wonder if we could apply this logic to everything else: “Instead of locking our doors at night, why don’t we just teach burglars NOT to break in?” Also, I wonder what the best method of “teaching men not to rape” is. Hmm, maybe we could pass laws against rape, which sentence perpetrators to several years of prison if they’re convicted? (Reminds me of a secondhand story via bash.org, where someone talked about an unfortunate zoo incident where some idiot climbed into a tiger pit and got mauled. Onlookers were discussing what they could do to prevent such a thing… Read more »
Kyle
Guest

The best method of “teaching men not to rape” is for fathers to teach their sons not to be dickheads. It starts with men and ends with men in this case.

akornzombie
Guest

Hate to tell you this Kyle, but in the real world it doesn’t work that way. There are evil people out there, and no amount of reasoning, debate, or teaching is going to stop them.

The only thing that they understand is violence, and that is the only way you or anyone else is going to stop them.

Greg "Blotto" Garrett
Guest
Greg "Blotto" Garrett

You can be the best parent in the world, and still wind up with a sociopath for an offspring. Nature and nurture both have a say, and sometimes nature can trump nurture. But the concept is still sound, and moving as many kids as possible towards the responsible side of the spectrum is something to be encouraged. True sociopaths are very rare (as are true altruists, I suppose). Most of us started in the huge pile in the middle.

pohjalainen
Guest

So, you believe it’s all just nurture, no nature?

From what I have read there may be some brain structure abnormalities in people who exhibit psychopathic behavior. And that it seems a fairly high proportion of those people who end up in jail for violence can be classified as psychopaths. Seems questionable whether you can teach that away.

The Phantom
Guest

Kyle, as somebody else said in this thread, this scenario assumes a father is present. No longer a given, my friend.

Alpheus
Guest
I’ll go a step further than what The Phantom just said: not only are we assuming that the father is present, but we’re also assuming that when the father is present, he’s not teaching the kids the best way to do drug deals, the “cleanest” way to eliminate competition (complete with preferred caliber and body disposal methods), and how to play that fun party game where a pair of dice is rolled to determine how many people will rape the new gang initiate. Even in America, such cultures exist; it’s probably not good to rely on the fathers within this… Read more »
Lea
Guest
Every time I think these people can’t get any dumber and more outraged at completely normal stuff, they blow my mind again. I am a woman. I can not in any way, shape or form understand what the hell these women are thinking is wrong with her answer. She made two reasonable points, one that colleges hide the stats because they don’t bad pr, and two that women need to know reality so they can protect themselves. And that self defense classes are probably great. That is not promoting ‘rape culture’. Honestly. Having gone to college in a big city,… Read more »
suburbanbanshee
Guest

Somewhere, a bunch of 1970’s-1980’s feminist fantasy/sf writers are very upset at their future selves for disavowing all their bits about women and self-defense.

Unfortunately, I don’t think their future selves remember being angry.

Ferran
Guest

The following was written _a while_ ago…

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/blamehardlook.htm#shame_rape

Fail Burton
Guest
The con game that is intersectional fake feminism has literally turned off people’s minds. Instead of thinking of people and a single moral ethos for all, entire generations have been raised on supremacist doctrine where morality resides in women and not in men. The dope named Anna Beth who said women shouldn’t have to learn to protect themselves elaborated that “Women are taken advantage of everyday all over the world because of the feeling of entitlement that history has presented to men.” That’s not a moral ethos, that’s no different from neo-Nazi supremacism that’s been presented in such a reasonable… Read more »
Danny Harbison
Guest

This reminds me of the recent political activist who went to Haiti to teach people that it’s not a violent place and the people were racist for thinking so. While working there she was raped by a black man and then blamed white men for it. Some people are just too stupid to learn from reality.

Nicole Da Yooper
Guest
As a woman, who has a black belt AND has taught self-defense to women I am appalled at the reaction to Miss Nevada’s statement. NEVER did she blame the victim, she only encouraged women to empower themselves. When teaching self-defense to women I make it clear that teaching them how to defend themselves is never meant to blame them for being assaulted in the past. In fact I always said – surviving is what is important. You’re here today, and now I’m going to help give you back some sense of power and control in your life. While I’d love… Read more »
Eamon J. Cole
Guest

I’ve got a throbbing vessel in my brain, so I’m going to come back and read all the comments later.

I’m exhausted by this new contention that we just “need to teach men not to rape.” Properly civilized boys do not need to be taught not to rape, it’s part and parcel of the civilizing.

Rapists aren’t civilized, they don’t need a class they need a casket. I really don’t care if they’re dead before you shovel the dirt in.

zaklog
Guest
I would suggest that the *real* rape culture is the one that teaches young women to go out and get riotously drunk in the company of young men. I’d also say that the young men are getting shafted here too. I am not and never will defend having sex with a passed out girl or anything like that. But let me make an analogy, if you’re drunk and I said, hey man, give me $50 and you did, did I rob you? Even if you would never have done that sober, did I rob you? If you’re passed out and… Read more »
Matthew Carberry (@CarberryMatthew)
Guest
Matthew Carberry (@CarberryMatthew)
You left out that in the analogy -both- parties in the $50 example are probably drunk enough to not be making good choices. The implicit “the man is always responsible” is actually anti-feminist as it implies women are inherently less capable of deciding not to drink nor being as able as men to make good decisions while drunk. A drunk man asking a drunk woman, who has been voluntarily getting drunk with him, to have sex may be being crude, but why is it his sole responsibility to remember, while drunk, not to ask as opposed to equally her responsibility… Read more »
zaklog
Guest

Yes, both people drunk is another very real issue, and I suspect the most common. That doesn’t change the basic math, though. Rape is still rape and offering and/or participating in bad choices still isn’t.

When my children are of that age, my advice would simply be don’t put yourself in those kinds of situations, man or woman.

Telandra
Guest
I work Security in a Las Vegas Casino. If a person gives money, chips etc, to someone, and that person walks away with it, I will advise the person giving the money that no crime has been commited. If the person receiving the money is still on proprty I will trespass them because we do not want their buisness. A lot of scam artists use the “Give me $100.00 and I will double it for you.” scam on drunks.When I see the trespasser on property again i arrest them. If drunks could make good decisions, the Casinos would not give… Read more »
Firehand
Guest
This is one of the things being pointed out about the current ‘preponderance of evidence’ bullshit being used in those bastions of ‘thought’ known as college: “They were both drunk, yet you consider the woman has no responsibility for her actions and the male is completely responsible for what happened; so women are so weak-minded when drinking that they require a male to think for them? Really?” Who has a low opinion of women, again? Last year a actual feminist wrote an article pointing out that it would be a good idea to tell young women going off to college… Read more »
thewriterinblack
Guest

“They were both drunk, yet you consider the woman has no responsibility for her actions and the male is completely responsible for what happened; so women are so weak-minded when drinking that they require a male to think for them? Really?”
Who has a low opinion of women, again?

QFT

STW
Guest

I was very proud when my oldest daughter reported, after her final in a self-defense class, that one of her sheriff-deputy-attackers told her she could really punch. The final was to, while blindfolded, successfully fight off two (well padded) attackers.

Both my daughters can shoot and shoot well. Unfortunately, neither now lives where anything more than pepper spray, a whistle, and fast legs can get them out of trouble. Hopefully, someday that will change. My wife, on the other hand, has her CCW and is looking for another class to improve her skills.

Tokyo Tengu
Guest
My take on this “teach men not to rape” schtick is that the Feminist movement leaders KNOW it is fricking stupid and does nothing to solve the issue, but they throw it out there because 1) the brainwashed idiots who follow them will swallow anything if enough people scream loudly enough about it, and 2) brainwashed idiots are their source of power, prestige, and quite often their bread and butter and must, at all cost, be kept on the Feminist plantation. They don’t want women defending themselves for the same reasons the teacher’s unions hate charter schools where minorities do… Read more »
Danny Harbison
Guest

I think you are missing something even more obvious. The “teach men not to rape” schtick is simply a method to label all me as rapists and therefore the enemy of women.

SirBrass
Guest

Women need this kind of feminism (the kind that is anti-self-defense) like a fish needs a bicycle ;).

Tokyo Tengu
Guest

Snerk!

trackback

[…] The Naive Idiocy of Teaching Rapists Not To Rape. […]

robfornow
Guest
When I retired from Probation and Parole the new thing was “teaching” A person was put on probation for being on a date with a guy that had drugs in the vehicle. Usually first date. First thing was send her to ‘drug education’ when she got the certificate, send her to DUI school, followed by ‘shoplifters school’ at at least fifty a month. When she got off probation she had a whole wall of ‘honor certificates’ I guess these ‘rape school advocates’ are following the pattern. Glad I left when I did. I have a Liberal friend who told me… Read more »
SteveS
Guest

A knife is a good choice, but it depends on where you are. In Michigan, there isn’t any kind of knife preemption and many municipalities have ordinances banning knives. Combine that with crappy state laws, and carrying a knife can be risky.

Lehua Parker
Guest

Thank you, Larry, for so eloquently expressing what I had been thinking.

mgcady
Guest
This is why we can’t have nice toys; morons keep hijacking the discussion. Self defense and society level change for the better (ie raising awareness, discussion of issues *intelligently*, and working for a better tomorrow) are not mutually exclusive. A woman empowering herself by learning how to defend herself is not accepting or excusing rape. It’s a person learning how to defend themselves against the fact that there are assholes in the world. It should be ok for men to take self defense classes too, because there are assholes in the world who attack men (for whatever reason). I can… Read more »
mgcady
Guest

This is why we can’t have nice toys; morons keep hijacking the conversation.

Self defense training and making the world a better place are not mutually exclusive.

I can go take a refresher on the self defense class I took in college (for gym credit!) and learn how to defend myself against assholes in this world (of any gender… who here has witnessed two women fighting? We can get vicious!) and still encourage people (of all ages) around me to be polite, decent, and to take responsibility for their actions.

kamas716
Guest

Reblogged this on westfargomusings and commented:
Larry makes some good points here. What I can’t fathom is the people who think that Miss NV is wrong for wanting to defend herself. Never, ever turn _your_ security over to someone else. It’s _your_ responsibility and the other person may not always be around to protect you.

Cadeyrn
Guest
Juuuuust out of curiosity, how is one supposed to know some man on the street even signed up for the “non-rapey” class, let alone showed up and got a passing grade? Will their diploma be tattooed on their forehead? Is this outrage from the same people who insist that motorcycle riders have to wear helmets or the police can arrest them, car drivers need to wear seat belts or be cited and children’s car seats cannot be installed by parents, they need a certified firefighter to do the installation? The people who want to bubble-wrap the world so nothing bad… Read more »
Greg "Blotto" Garrett
Guest
Greg "Blotto" Garrett
The problem is that they want the freedom to make their preferred choices, without the responsibility of any negative consequences. Those they hand off to “the state” (security, fiscal responsibility, etc.) Their irresponsible, hedonistic choices aren’t the problem (they can’t be, or by association THEY might be the problem too, and that doesn’t fit into their world-view), so it must be those fascists harshing their mellow. Ignoring the problem of Narcissism, there’s the more practical problem that their “solution” only works with 100% compliance (and arguably not even then). In this case, unless you get 100% of men to attend… Read more »
Tony Muhlenkamp
Guest

If you haven’t already, you should get to know Marc MacYoung. He has been around this block a couple of times and has written about it. He has websites “No Nonsense Self Defense” and “Conflict Resolution Group International” in addition to several books. I think you will enjoy getting to know one another.

Raptor
Guest
Boy howdy, the novel I’m writing would probably make these #YAW yahoos’ heads explode. In Act 1, an actress is being targeted by a violent stalker, so her agent hires a bodyguard for her. It takes some doing, but the bodyguard convinces her to take some Krav Maga lessons so she can protect herself just in case, and tells her flat out,” You shouldn’t have to depend on someone like me to be safe.” Two chapters later, stalker breaks into her house, barricades the two of them in her bedroom, and tries to rape her. Bodyguard races to the rescue,… Read more »
Danny Harbison
Guest

Dude, if that’s the case, them I’m in really deep. Most of my female heroes are strong characters who take care of themselves.

T.L. Knighton
Guest

My MC’s wife beats the ever loving shit out of a would be attacker. They’re really not going to like me too well either.

Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Guest

That sounds like a really cool scene that I would CHEER on reading!

flyoverboondocks
Guest

Reblogged this on flyoverboondocks and commented:
A good post by Larry.

akornzombie
Guest

Danny, TL: You ain’t the only ones! My female MC’s would do that, and the male MC’s are the one’s who taught them!

Danny Harbison
Guest

As a libertarian writer, I tend to stay in trouble with BOTH sides.

akornzombie
Guest

That just means you’re doing it right. 😀

Ad Astra
Guest

Look up the recent US Supreme Court case of Kennedy vs Louisiana where capitol punishment was for the rape of a child was declared unconstitutional. Now take a wild guess about the idealogical make up of the majority on the decision.

We do have a rape culture in the US, and the libprog left is all for it

Danny Harbison
Guest

You know, I really don’t have a problem with not giving the death penalty for rapists who don’t kill. Reserving it for those who actually take a human life to me is acceptable.

SirBrass
Guest

I disagree. When it is recognized by decent and common societal rules that it is justified to use deadly force to stop rape (it is considered to be included in the “risk of death or great bodily injury” definition), then the appropriate criminal court penalty for such an act should also be deadly.

Danny Harbison
Guest
SirBrass, For some reason, there was no reply button at the bottom of your post… I can see your point. But killing in the heat of protecting yourself is one thing. I have no problem with the state taking the life of a murderer, and I have no problem with ANYBODY protecting themselves with deadly force from rape, robbery, or murder. But I worry about a state with the power to take the life of someone who has not murdered. I think that’s is a legitimate check on the state’s power. Now as far as the victim or the victim’s… Read more »
Matthew Carberry (@CarberryMatthew)
Guest
Matthew Carberry (@CarberryMatthew)

You are justified to “use deadly force in self-defense”, that force which is -capable- of causing death, not “execute out of hand.”

Different concepts.

Wesley Nichols
Guest

And I have no problem with killing them all.

Ad Astra
Guest
@Danny Harbison “I think that’s is a legitimate check on the state’s power.” The irony being that you would agree with 5 people deciding that they have the authority to extend the power of the federal state over the wishes of the people of the state of Louisiana as expressed through their elected representatives using the spurious reasoning of “the evolving standards of decency that mark the progress of a maturing society,” The law which they overturned was passed in 1995 not some quaint holdover from the 18th-19th century. Lastly I must state my opinion that the violent rape of… Read more »
Danny Harbison
Guest
Ad Astra- As a friend of mine used to say, “Even a blind hog finds an acorn once and again…” And the purpose of the Constitutions is to protect the individual from the state. The Bill of Rights is designed to protect us from the tyranny of majority rules. There are certain rights that no community can vote to revoke from the individual. The argument that it is duly passed by the people doesn’t hold water if it violates the rights of the individual spelled out in the Constitution. You cannot use the power of government to vote to strip… Read more »
Ad Astra
Guest
“The Bill of Rights is designed to protect us from the tyranny of majority rules.” When did 5 people in robes become a majority? Actually it’s supposed to protect the rights of the people and the states from the federal government. “The argument that it is duly passed by the people doesn’t hold water if it violates the rights of the individual spelled out in the Constitution.” So where in the Constitution are the child rapists spelled out as specially protected? Right next the clause that says “separation of church and state” I guess. CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES ARTICLE… Read more »
jaed
Guest

A dead person can’t assist in the investigation (less likely to find the rapist) and can’t testify (less likely to convict even if they find the rapist). If you execute rapists whether they murder the victims or not, you’re going to end up with a lot more dead victims.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

Bullshit.

Rapists already murder victims to hamper prosecution in cases where the penalty is likely only mere imprisonment.

If you are trying to manipulate them into leaving victims alive, you might as well borrow the whole flawed legalization argument.

It won’t work for this either, because a person who breaks a law for one reason, will break other laws in related ways.

Rape, Murder, Arson and Kidnapping are common law capital felonies because the people who do them, will tend to pose a significant danger to human life.

pohjalainen
Guest
Plus rapes often are he said she said cases, with no other physical evidence except maybe that intercourse happened. And women do lie. Even if the death penalty was limited to cases where she is also obviously roughed up, and maybe to underage girls, you might still get cases where she, for whatever reason, makes things up. And teen girls can sometimes look as if they were legally old enough, and I am somewhat sympathetic towards men who fall for one who wants to make it with a grown man and lies about her age (not very, but people do… Read more »
BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool
Pohjalainen, Keep in mind that in American law, the word Rape describes a specific crime, which is a felony. A felony generally requires being able to show that the criminal had Mens Rhea, a guilty or evil mind, when they did the act. I am not a lawyer, and never have been, so maybe I’ve explained things poorly. Check out the difference in US law between homicide and murder. Anyway, once one reaches the point of sentencing for Rape in a US criminal court, it has already met certain levels of proof, and is not a matter of he said,… Read more »
saintonge235
Guest

Perhaps. But I know of no systematic evidence, and what anecdotal evidence I have says that some would-be rapists will be deterred.

It does seem evident that cops look harder for rapist murderers than “mere” rapists, and that it’s much harder to convince a jury that ‘It was really all consensual’ when there’s a dead body involved. And an executed rapist rapes no more.

All things considered, it isn’t clear what the overall effect would be on numbers of rapes, and number of murders.

John C Wright
Guest
“I am not a lawyer, and never have been, so maybe I’ve explained things poorly.” I am a lawyer. Rape in the Common Law is the carnal knowledge of a woman forcibly and against her will. Consent is assumed in the case of wives, and consent cannot be granted in the case of minors. To mitigate the injustice of requiring a woman to resist until force is used, many statutory laws have done away with the element of force, making it merely a matter of ascertaining the woman’s will. But, at the same time, to mitigate the alleged oddity placing… Read more »
trackback

[…] Baron Larry von Correia bats this one out of the park. […]

Woelf Dietrich
Guest

There is nothing I can add. You’re spot on.

Joe in PNG
Guest

Note- the ‘sad puppies’ song just came up. Which makes me wonder if pseudo feminist anti self defense whining is an additional source of Puppy Related Sadness.

FarmGirl
Guest
Hear, Hear, Larry. I piss off a lot of people when I say that having bad things happen to you doesn’t excuse you from the responsibility of having made poor choices. Because I’m blaming the victim, never mind that I’m pretty ok with the idea of lowering a rapist an inch at a time into a pool full of starving piranha, because I don’t instantly make the victim out as a perfect saint or believe that wishing hard enough will eliminate all violence from the world, I’m an awful person. It takes them a little longer with me since I… Read more »
Tom Kratman
Guest
Rape culture is whatever promotes, advances, or makes women vulnerable to, rape. Thus, if you want to disarm women, or talk them out of learning to defend themselves, you are part of rape culture. If you tell women that, in an ideal world, what they wear, where they go, and what they do shouldn’t matter, but then neglect to tell them that we don’t inhabit that world, you are part of rape culture. If you partake of the thoroughly debunked and dangerously mad nonsense of man being a tabula rasa, and so put your rape prevention efforts into the idiotic… Read more »
Kristophr
Guest

Word. The best way to prevent rape is to teach women self defense. And to publicly crucify surviving rapists.

Bubbasrelm
Guest
only problem i have in your scenario is that if women are already well trained/armed enough to defend themselves from rapists, thereby making rapists become a dwindling minority is thus. Those surviving rapists would be so far gone out of any concept of normal moral decency that public violent executions would really serve no purpose. you would in essence remove the “accidental” and “opportunistic” rapists with making women capable of defending themselves. The only ones left would be the sick twisted f**k’s who really wouldn’t care if they were publicly executed. I much prefer dragging them to the desert, absent… Read more »
thewriterinblack
Guest

P.S. add a doctor to go in and say “yep he’s dead.”

Why?
Pugsley Addams: “Are they Dead?”
Wendesday: “Does it matter?”
(And then they fill in the holes containing the “bodies” of the bad guys.)

Bubbasrelm
Guest

My first thought was to just make sure we can say the perp is actually dead, People have survived getting shot in the head before.

my second thought was you know.. because vampires…

My third thought was, i’m prolly going to hell for making a vampire joke in a rape defense comment stream.

Just thought i’d share my “process” with ya folks.

Greg "Blotto" Garrett
Guest
Greg "Blotto" Garrett

The death penalty is one of my few concessions to emotion. It makes little sense logically (costs more, doesn’t deter the sociopaths…) but I have a hard time suffering sociopaths to live. If they have committed heinous crimes, show no remorse and can’t be fixed, execution is fine by me. I’d take no pleasure in it, and not exactly be dancing a jig afterwards though. Like putting down a dog, it’s the least shitty choice on a menu of shitty choices. Put them down and be done with it.

Tom Kratman
Guest

It’s for the children, Greg.

Cristiona
Guest

I wish they’d just teach people not to crash their cars. Seat belts are just victim blaming 🙁

mechgogogames
Guest

Larry as someone who survived TEN YEARS of systematic sexual abuse can I just say THANK YOU! This piece nails it to the wall and should be required reading . Thanks for taking time away from your paying work to post this. You’re a good man and I really hope your family lights up like a Christmas tree with pride when they tell people “Yeah, he’s with us”

trackback

[…] And Larry does his normal job of tearing apart the foolishness. […]

Dr. Mauser
Guest

Call me a cynic, but perhaps the agenda for not promoting women’s self defense is that the feminists WANT rape statistics to rise so they can use that to grab more power.

Wayne Blackburn
Guest

I’d call you a cynic, except that I agree with you. Wait – I guess we can both be cynics, right?

trackback

[…] CorreiaJune 10, 2014The Naive Idiocy of Teaching Rapists Not To Rape[I think the mindset he describes is extremely harmful and out of touch with reality. But I do sort […]

Lazy Bike Commuter
Guest

Back when I did martial arts I would sometimes assist in teaching Women’s Self-Defense classes. We mostly stopped offering them after a while though, and I was OK with it, because I was almost always A) disappointed in the fact that so few people showed up for a free class and B) unconvinced of how much good it does you to go to a class one time and never practice.

Maybe now I should start offering free “How not to rape” classes for men. HuffPo would totally do a feature on me as a hero.

trackback

[…] Ingraham Has Question For “Double Amnesty, Extra Hot” Obama Monster Hunter Nation: The Naive Idiocy Of Teaching Rapists Not To Rape American Power: “This Woman, Marie Larf (Harf) Seems To Be The White Susan Rice, Only Dumber […]

Jonathan
Guest

It’s not victim blaming. It’s victim preventing.

Wes S.
Guest
Speaking of the “rape culture” the feminists love to prattle about, what do you make of this? http://voxday.blogspot.com/2014/06/pink-sff-is-worse-than-you-think.html#comment-form Apparently Marion Zimmer Bradley, one of SF/F’s more prominent recent authors – and certainly one of its more prominent feminists – was a rapist herself, and an enabler of child rape to boot. According to – among others – HER OWN DAUGHTER. Quote: >”None of this should be news. Walter was a serial rapist with many, many, many victims (I named 22 to the cops) but Marion was far, far worse. She was cruel and violent, as well as completely out of… Read more »
Dave W.
Guest

That….. that….. I’ve got no words. Though I need to pick my jaw up off the floor before I start catching flies.

Danny Harbison
Guest

I am a bit wary of that discussion from the first line forward on the page. It seemed less about dealing with rape and molestation than it was about attacking sci-fi writers who portray same-sex relationships (which I am do). It was less about helping the victims and more about attacking gays.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

Check the sources. Moen, Greyland and Goldin, from those sources, do not appear to have an axe to grind against gays specifically.

Danny Harbison
Guest

Bob- I’m simply wary of such sites from recent experience. Was in the middle of a pretty good article about problems with modern feminism when the author suddenly went off on a wild tangent blaming the whole situation on “the Jewish problem.” By the time it was over, I left in disgust with a new appellation to my own name: The pagan Anti-Christ’s answer to the Jewish problem, a heathen who likes Jews.”

So, I tend to avoid sites like that.

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

Now you are just being silly.

Greyland was in MZB’s custody as a child. Her problem seems to be specifically with MZB, Breen, and Lisa whose surname I forget.

Goldin and Moen are quoting legal documents. You can go read the legal documents yourself, I sincerely doubt that the lawyers were attempting to say anything about pagans or gays in general. Goldin and Moen also seem to specifically have a problem with MZB et al. as individuals.

Danny Harbison
Guest

Bob, you misunderstood. I wasn’t saying that this site was doing that. I was just pointing out my recent unfortunate experience with a similar site that seemed to have an agenda. I will do some actual research on her claims. I just won’t use it to justify some kind ad hominim attack on sci-fi writers who are gay friendly as the first few lines of that page suggests. .

BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool
Vox apparently has an agenda. Sure. As I said, he links to the websites of Moen, and maybe also to Goldin, who apparently have an entirely different agenda, on that matter specific to MZB and her choices in associates. I forget if I got the link to Goldin from Vox or Moen. Vox lost an election for president of the SFWA. Shortly after, he was kicked out of the organization on grounds that, he has documented, others have apparently transgressed worse on. Those others apparently have not been punished for their trolling, apparently because of better political connections. It seems… Read more »
Danny Harbison
Guest
Bob- Again, I am not attacking the people who filed the actual reports against MZB (Not an author whose works I have enjoyed) but the very opening of this discussion goes: By way of example, consider that one of the foremost heroines of Pink SF/F turns out to have been the very sort of monstrous sexual freak the pinkshirts so love to write about in their inclusive, people of colorful, sexually deviant fiction. It gets worse from there. If what MZB is accused of is true, then she need to be punished for it- and severely. However, that is not… Read more »
BobtheRegisterredFool
Guest
BobtheRegisterredFool

Danny,

The second sentence in Vox’s thing had a link to:
http://deirdre.net/marion-zimmer-bradley-its-worse-than-i-knew/

That linked to:
http://deirdre.net/marion-zimmer-bradley-gave-us-new-perspectives-all-right/

Both are on Moen’s site.

Which links to:
http://www.sff.net/people/stephen.goldin/mzb/

Which has the depositions, and is Goldin’s site. The invitation check the sources, along with mentioning surnames of the secondary sources, was to point out that they were readily available, without being filtered through Vox’s stuff.

Getting so hung up on Vox, and about general statements about gays and pagans, struck me as obfuscating the issue.

MZB is dead, and has been for many years.

Danny Harbison
Guest

Bob-
Sorry. Just pointing out that he poisoned the well for what could have been a good point. I will definitely check out those sources- at my convenience. I didn’t know MZB was dead. I won’t mourn her. (Never said I was a nice man.) But as I pointed out, Vox’s own blathering tended to make me not take his arguments seriously.

Wes S.
Guest
Really, the issue here isn’t what Vox Day thinks of “pink SF/F,” as it relates to this discussion. (Yes, due in no small part to his ongoing disputes with SFWA, Vox is clearly tarring with a broad brush; I don’t think you can plausibly call the likes of David Weber and Marko Kloos “pink,” which Vox apparently does because he considers their portrayal of strong female characters “unrealistic.”) The issue here is that while the Left is stretching the definition of “rape” well past the breaking point to score cheap political points, they’re overlooking a really horrific, actual rape culture… Read more »
DaveP.
Guest

So you’re willing to discount the actual words of the victims involved in a savage, inhuman, and decades-long career of child abuse because the article linked to is from VD, who doesn’t like Teh Gheys?

So tell me… which is more important to you?