Monster Hunter Nation

The Naive Idiocy of Teaching Rapists Not To Rape

Believe it or not, I actually know a bit about beauty pageants. Yes, I know it doesn’t fit my image, but bear with me. Back in college I went out with Miss Utah State and attended several of these things. One thing that I learned was that despite the stereotypes about the dumb beauty queen, most of these women were very smart. Capable, intelligent women understand the need to take responsibility for their own safety.  

So Miss Nevada was doing the Q&A for the Miss America pageant and said something that caused the Perpetually Outraged to get their outrage on.

 “I believe that some colleges may potentially be afraid of having a bad reputation and that would be a reason it could be swept under the rug, because they don’t want that to come out into the public,”Nia Sanchez said. “But I think more awareness is very important so women can learn how to protect themselves. Myself, as a fourth-degree black belt, I learned from a young age that you need to be confident and be able to defend yourself. And I think that’s something that we should start to really implement for a lot of women.”

The internet then exploded with its typical impotent fist shaking fury. Now, normal, not insane people may be confused as to what Miss Nevada said that was so outrageous, but here is a helpful glimpse into the brains of various Twitter lemmings.

How did she win after that awful and offensive answer? Idiot— 
Cait Cremeens (@CaitCremeens) June 09, 2014

I’m sorry, but women shouldn’t need to take self defense classes to protect themselves from rape #MissUSA— 
Peter Simon (@PeterSimon12) June 09, 2014

Let’s hope Nevada uses her media tour to reiterate that teaching girls self defense is NOT the best way to protect against assault #MissUSA

Miss Nevada, who just reinforced victim-blaming rape culture to millions of viewers, is crowned #MissUSA 2014.— 
šīrīn
šəʿ (@shereenTshafi) June 09, 2014

Miss Nevada was asked about rape at colleges and answered that women need to learn to defend themselves… OR MEN COULD JUST NOT RAPE.

8:55 PM – 8 Jun 2014

Yeah. Try to wrap your brain around that shit. The answer to violent crime isn’t to do things to protect yourself from the criminal, but to WISH for the criminal not to exist at all… Good luck with that.

In the same spirit as other useless feel-good/do-nothing LibProg hastag campaigns like #bringbackourgirls http://monsterhunternation.com/2014/05/08/operation-pouty-face/ somebody started #yesallwomen, which mostly consists of shrieking about how all women are victims and all men are inherently evil, misogyny is everywhere, and any conservative women who disagree are stupid, so you know, the usual.

One of the favorite topics of the #yessallwombyns crowd is rape. Rape is an evil crime. Regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum we can all agree that rape is bad. Everybody who isn’t a scumbag criminal would like to see it end. The difference is that conservatives live in reality where human nature and history demonstrate that wishful thinking is useless, and libprogs live in a fantasy wonderland where the idea of fighting back against rapists is somehow bad and the real problem is that somebody just needed to teach rapists not to rape.

Not happy w/ Miss Nevada’s answer that to stop rape we should teach women to defend themselves…Why don’t we teach men to not rape?— 
Kelsey Bemus (@KelseyBemus) June 09, 2014

Miss Nevada described how individuals need to protect themselves from rape, instead of teaching others not to rape. Stop the victim blaming.— 
Haley Ploucha (@hallepalouka) June 09, 2014

A note on “victim blaming” that I got from author Mike Williamson. If I teach my kids to look both ways before crossing the street so they don’t get hit by cars, am I victim blaming?

So a danger exists, but recognizing that danger exists and doing reasonable things to combat it is blaming the victim…  I don’t know why we’re wasting all this money on police, when we should just teach all criminals not to crime.  

Miss Nevada saying rape can be prevented by women learning self defense and being “confident”

Miss Nevada

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690 Comments on "The Naive Idiocy of Teaching Rapists Not To Rape"


Guest
Paul (Drak Bibliophile) Howard
1 year 11 months ago

What a bunch of morons (but I may be insulting morons).

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

The Moron’s lawyers will be in contact with you! 😀

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

All Morons attend rape classes. I fondly remember my first AoS rape class. Classic fun!

The best way to avoid rape is to have pointy elbows.

Guest
sanfordbegley
1 year 11 months ago

But Larry, self defense doesn’t address the issue of rape culture. If the woman defends herself and doesn’t get raped then they can’t use it as a case to attack good law abiding me for being rapists

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Exactly. What’s happening now is the re-run of the “Take back the night” stuff that started in the 70s but was becoming the default recruitment method in the early 90s. I was on a university campus then and the Womyn’s center and the university were requiring both men and women to attend what amounted to “Come to Jesus” meetings where feminist dogma was preached in the name of stopping rape. These were led by womyn who claimed to have the “absolute moral authority” of being previously raped. An interesting claim since there was roughly one rape/yr at that particular campus.

Personally, I see this meme as battlespace preparation for Hillary.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

One bit of obfuscation that the Perpetually Outraged Everybody’s A Victim crowd likes to engage in is lumping all sexual assaulters into one bucket, even though it is a complicated subject with several different types of offenders.

Didn’t you know? “Rape is rape.” Unless, of course, it’s Roman Planski drugging and anally raping an underage girl then it’s “not rape, rape.”

These folk spin so hard they meet themselves coming.

And, so, some of the comments I’ve made:

Teach men not to rape? Two center of mass and one to the head gets the idea across quite effectively.

Fire extinguishers? Then house burning culture wins.

Medicine? Then disease culture wins.

Look both ways before crossing the streets? Then hit-and-run culture wins.

Wear seat belts? Then auto accident culture wins.

The possibilities just go on and on.

Guest
david mills
1 year 11 months ago

Of course there is the group that thinks all sex is rape.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

They’re doing it wrong.

Guest
Tarl
1 year 11 months ago

That’s the group so fat / ugly / strident they ain’t getting any. =)

Guest

Theres a group of feminists who also scream about beautiful women being submissive to the patriarchy. It doesn’t matter what those women achieve, or whether they do it on their own merit. The fact they’re ‘beautiful’ = men will make their life easier for them. The ‘ugly’ ones were the only true women, for any love from a man they got meant they ‘got it from falling in love with their inner self’ not the ‘outer shell.’

The snarling hate I had for the implication that beautiful women should wash their faces in acid to prove their worth is one of the reasons why I think radical feminists need to be sent to the Muslim countries where they can really test their convictions in the face of reality.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

At least in my country I have seen claims, from time to time, that pedestrians should not be asked to be careful and the responsibility to avoid hitting anyone is always solely the driver’s, and only the driver’s. They usually come up when some hapless driver has the audacity to suggest on some forum that perhaps it actually would be a good idea for those pedestrians to really do things like look both ways before stepping on the crosswalk. And that maybe all drivers aren’t always without failing constantly vigilant superhumans who always notice everything so it’s would be a good idea for pedestrians to be careful too.

I think that links to the same thinking which goes with this ‘you should teach men not to rape’, the victim can never be asked for any part of the responsibility, no matter what they did or didn’t do (or will or will not do if they are not victims yet but might become one in the future) because that would be victim blaming. And since in car-pedestrian collisions the pedestrian is always the weaker party and so the victim then that makes her always also the innocent, even if she got hit when he stepped right in front of the car from behind a stopped bus or something similar.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I’m not saying we should kill all the stupid people. I’m just saying we should remove all the warning labels and let things sort themselves out.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

They must have been reading The Mote in God’s Eye. That’s the way the mediator they were walking with said it worked.

Guest
Dan Lane
1 year 11 months ago

Not just your country. Here, I had to explain to a new (read: absolutely no experience whatsoever) Safety Supervisor that forklifts have built-in blind spots. Cut short, my argument was “safety is everyone’s responsibility. You hire adults. For what the company is paying you should expect them to have the common sense God gave a baby duck, at the least.”

Guest
__
1 year 11 months ago

“Two center of mass and one to the head gets the idea across quite effectively”…ok, so any girl in a bar just has to beat every man unconscious in order to make it clear she does not want to be drugged and fucked while passed out ? rape is not always a guy with a knife. And if the girl is in a weelchair ? she is by default always ok for sex because if she is not ok she would have knocked him ?

Guest
jabrwok
1 year 11 months ago

“Two center of mass and one to the head gets the idea across quite effectively” refers to bullet placement. Even girls in wheelchairs can point guns.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Guys, too. I train with one during our weekly “Choir Practice” sessions with our instructor. He does just fine, though the added up angle means he has to watch the head shots so he doesn’t put one in the acoustic baffles.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Nice straw men you’ve got there. Build them yourself, or did you borrow them from someone else?

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I see reading comprehension is not one of your strengths, blankie. You really whupped ass on that strawman, though.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Thanks for the comments, folks. I really wasn’t up to wading in again–barrel still cooling from the last round. 😉

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Dear ___,

Are you deliberately being obtuse, or is it an involuntary neural disorder?

You don’t want to get drugged and raped in a bar, COVER YOUR DRINK. Or, you know, take some trustworthy backup with you. Because otherwise, you are easy meat. All the “education” in the entire world is not going to deter Mr. Date Rape one tiny bit. Sticking a gun in his face might. If you can’t, or won’t, you should have a friend who can and will. Or is that victim blaming?

Oh, and is there some reason why chicks in wheelchairs -shouldn’t- have a gun and a taser and pepper spray?

Oh, but doing anything to protect yourself is victim blaming, right? So you can’t? Poor thing. I’d stay home then, if I were you. Because every single male IN THE WORLD is just itching to get at you.

Is locking the door victim blaming too? Just wondering.

Guest
Andy
1 year 11 months ago

We’re through the looking glass here, people. It’s a mad house! A mad house!!!

Oh, I stumbled across a video game you might find interesting: http://nonadecimal.com/site/socialjusticewarriors/

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Am I misunderstanding this? It sounds like the game creator is Pro-SJWs?

http://nonadecimal.com/site/making-social-justice-warriors/

Guest
Andy
1 year 11 months ago

Hell, I don’t know. I just think the existence of it is kind of funny 🙂

Guest
Andrew
1 year 11 months ago

It appears to be a game that allows you to pretend to be a person pretending to do something by yammering on the internet. I get the idea of a game that lets you pretend to be awesome…but this is pretty lame.

Guest
Guess
1 year 11 months ago

There is a free one called liberal crime squad at bay12games.com. This is the creator of dwarf fortress. It’s a lot better that this one.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

My god, their stupid, it BURNS…..

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

My 15-year-old daughter asked me last week if she could go to kickboxing classes now that school is out. I said “Hell, yes! If they offer self-defense classes, those too! Do they have Krav Maga classes?” The surprised look on her face was priceless.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

That was actually funny. I’d allow the same when the time comes.

My oldest daughter is seven and I’ve already warned her not to trust grownups other than me and her mom. It comes down to the same rationale for teaching self-defense. There is no way in hell I’m gonna set my daughter free in this world protected only by wishful thinking. That redefines moronic behavior.

Guest
William O. B'Livion
1 year 11 months ago

I just picked my 7 year old up from Krav class.

She has three rules where fighting are concerned:

1) Never hit first (she’s seven. When she’s got more understanding this rule will change).
2) Always hit back. Always.
3) Get a knockout, get an icecream.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

“3) Get a knockout, get an icecream.”

That’s awesome! “Ice cream is for closers!” 😀

Guest
Kristophr
1 year 11 months ago

Get the girl a real leather jacket and some engineer-style steel-toed motorcycle boots. Armor and weapons you can get away with wearing at school.

Guest
Blond_Engineer
1 year 11 months ago

My parents put me in martial arts when I hit high school and told me I couldn’t date until I got at least my green belt. Certainly there’s other benefits than knowing how to block blows, gouge eyes, kick groins, or break knees, but those were the ones uppermost in my parents’ thoughts at the time.

Guest

If only it burned only them though…!

Guest
Nicole
1 year 11 months ago

Idiots. I can’t even grasp how the brain like blobs in those people’s heads function. I believe I will keep my daughter in martial arts and prepare her to take care of evil should it trouble her. I just wish I knew at what age most parents start taking their kids to the range.

Guest
david mills
1 year 11 months ago

6 or 7 with strict supervision, 9 with her own gun imo

Guest
Bruce
1 year 11 months ago

I shot my first rounds at 4 or 5. The first trip was part of the “this is what happens when you shoot something with a firearm, and this is why firearms are NOT toys and are always treated as if they are loaded” training. Somewhere between that and 6 or 7, when I got my first shotgun (20 gauge, and I still have it), there were several trips to the range where I learned how to shoot accurately – the safe handling stuff happened at home. I was also the 4th child, and not the first that was trained this way.

Guest
Geodkyt
1 year 11 months ago

Depends on the kid. If she’s ready to follow instructions UNQUESTIONINGLY AND IMMEDIATELY (for safety reasons), and big enough to hold the gun and pull the trigger (physics), she’s old enough. I don;t care if she’s 5 or 15.

If she’s not ready, it doesn’t matter if she’s 15 or 50.

Guest
Ree1
1 year 11 months ago

I was 8 when my dad put a .357 in my hand… If you think your kid is old enough to understand, teach them!

Guest
CombatMissionary
1 year 11 months ago

I set up a BB gun range in my backyard. Santa brought Daisy Pink Carbines and Daisy Bucks. The kids all wear safety glasses and are quickly learning safe handling while ventilating Shoot-N-C zombie targets. They won’t learn any younger!

Guest
david mills
1 year 11 months ago

If you take the time and make the investment to defend your self, and I don’t, then that makes me feel bad. So of course you should not make me feel like i’m lazy or helpless, and you should just be a victim too. Because it’s never my fault, it’s the fault of someone else, like the government, except for Obama, Just hold hands and visualize Unicorns. Don’t think about yucky stuff.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

A lot of the opposition to home-schooling has the same basis — some people don’t want to go that much work with their children, but if you do home-school your kids, it makes them look bad, so they don’t want anybody to be able to do it.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

And of course shooting a rapist has one great advantage over (to choose a completely random example) pushing a rapist over a ten-foot wall: When you shoot him, you know he’s dead; fifty years later, you won’t be worried that you might have left him alive to hurt somebody.

Guest
jnials
1 year 11 months ago

Let the people say: AMEN!.

As the father of a teenage daughter, I taught her early on (read: 9 years old) where to kick the guy for most effect, and various other dirty tricks I never taught my boys. I also taught her to take responsibility, be assertive, and don’t take crap from anyone just because she is a girl. As a result, most of the boys are either her best friends or afraid her.

The fact that her three older brothers are either huge (like @correia45 huge), or study MMA doesn’t hurt.

Guest
CombatMissionary
1 year 11 months ago

You should put her in MMA as well. Knowing how to snap ankles, break collarbones, destroy elbows, gouge out eyes, do throat strikes etc. are all useful for girls. The primary philosophy should be “Engage to disengage; but while engaging, do permanently damaging and immediately disabling destructive violence.”

Guest
keranih
1 year 11 months ago

Women shouldn’t need to learn to protect themselves against rape #missnevada educate and respect yourself as a woman #rapeculture

…Right. And as an adult woman – generally not the weakest, smallest, or drunkest thing in my immediate vicinity – self-defense classes are also very good at helping me get skills to help protect other people.

You know, for the times when I am not the victimest victimy victim in the room.

It’s like these people are going out of their way to draw a box that says “self-responsible free citizens inside” and then lock it, with themselves on the outside.

Guest

I’m okay with them locking themselves outside – the proverbial zombies can get them that way. The problem is they aren’t limiting it to themselves.

Guest
keranih
1 year 11 months ago

Yeah. Not carrying so much for the Sisterhood, if that is it.

(I am still shaking my head over this. When women (or anyone) look at the world, and only see people bigger than themselves, who might deal out abuse, and ignore the people smaller than themselves, who might need protection, there was something wrong with their upbringing.)

(Logic dictates that the medium person figure out how to enlist the larger person in protection of the smaller person. Except, duh, that’s traditional human society. It seems that many people would rather create a new world where all abandon the weakest, or else join in with the largest in dealing out abuse. I don’t get it. Who raised these people?)

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

keranih wrote:

” I don’t get it. Who raised these people?

I think you’ll find most of them came from single-parent households where dad was out of the picture (mom was either divorced or never married). And single mothers usually don’t have much time for their kids while trying to hold down a job, which means handing the kids off to one daycare center after another. (Some of those daycare centers have names like “____ville Public High School”.)

Which means the answer to “Who raised these people?” is “the State”. Which, in turn, explains a lot. When you criticize the State, you’re criticizing their mommy and daddy. No wonder they get irrationally angry about it.

Guest

Yeah… I can see that. No wonder they also hold parents who actually parent in such dripping contempt. Seething jealousy at seeing what they should have had.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

@Robin Munn. That’s so sad and it makes perfect sense.

Guest
keranih
1 year 11 months ago

Robin – yeah. That does make sense. And my heart hurt.

Guest
Ygolonac
1 year 11 months ago

Learning (or advocating) self-defense is not “blaming the victim”.

It’s straight-up announcing “FUCK YOU! I’m not going to BE a victim!”

Guest
Jeff Gauch
1 year 11 months ago

And THAT is the problem. Without a significant portion of the populace seeing themselves as victims, the SJW’s won’t won’t have anyone to look up to them. They’d have to rely on their talents and intelligence to get respect. IOW, they’d be screwed.

Guest

Social version of Munschausen by proxy? Yeah that idea fits.

Guest

“I will not submit”? *grin*

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Ah, but it’s also announcing that you don’t trust the Government to protect you, and that cannot be borne.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I think the mindset you describe is extremely harmful and out of touch with reality. But I do sort of understand it.

It is a cultural thing. They view taking responsibility for your own self-defense as “joining the cult of individualism”. They view rapists as someone in “the collective” who hasn’t been sufficiently indoctrinated. If only the collective had more power…

Individualist are opposed to giving more power to the collective hence we, by our very nature, are opposed to what they view as a force for good. Giving individual women the power to defend themselves distinguishes them from the masses of women that do not have the inclination, skills, or tools to defend themselves. It is cultural suicide for the collective to encourage individuals to stand out.

Guest
Ascher Goodrich
1 year 11 months ago

So they believe rapists are just people who are mentally strong enough to resist the collective hive mind and that the only solution is a more powerful hive mind? If that’s what your saying, it’s an interesting thought. Although, I am pretty sure they truly believe rape is somehow institutionalized. They are just arrogant people who refuse to admit they might possibly be wrong about something.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

My hypothesis is they believe individualist “only think of what is good for themselves” and hence are predisposed to rape. Rapists need to think of what is good for the collective instead of what is good for themselves. To the extent that “institutions” encourage/allow individualists a culture of rape has been institutionalized.

Guest
Fail Burton
1 year 11 months ago

This just all logical gibberish to pre-convict men as a group of immoral crimes. It’s the exact same mechanism we’re seeing in SFF. You create a scarecrow, you scapegoat men, next thing you know look who’s winning the Nebula Awards.

That’s one thing, but in larger America culture this is plain dangerous, because the logical end game isn’t some awards, but discriminatory laws.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Reblogged this on Wyldewoody musings and commented:
Important stuff

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Honestly, this pisses me off so much! These are the SAME PEOPLE who claim to be able to “take care” of themselves, you know, they don’t “need” a man…but they sure don’t want to take ownership of protecting themselves. It is sooooo much easier to expect EVERYONE around them to change and then whine when it doesn’t occur. Newsflash: a criminal does not care whether you have “educated” yourself on the “rape culture”. Where exactly is this pink little crime-free world supposed to come from?

And how in the hell is making sure that you can defend yourself as a woman bad? I do not get that AT ALL.

I know, maybe we can post Rape Free Zones, they can hang those signs up with the Gun Free Zone signs, because THAT has worked out so well for them!

What the hell is going on in this country anymore? I suggest the following on Twitter, those of us who don’t live in fear of being attacked start posting the hashtag #notaf-ingvictim. We can post pictures of ourselves holding the signs too. From the gun range…the kickboxing classes, the model-mugging classes, etc. There are just as many of us who live in reality as these nut jobs.

At least Nia Sanchez seems to have some common sense.

Guest
Martialartsmama
1 year 11 months ago

That is brilliant! I already love posting pictures of me at my tae kwon do classes, and now adding #notaf-ingvictim will make posting them that much more fun!

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

frompennsyltucky wrote: “Honestly, this pisses me off so much! These are the SAME PEOPLE who claim to be able to ‘take care’ of themselves, you know, they don’t ‘need’ a man…but they sure don’t want to take ownership of protecting themselves.”

Yup. Back in the late seventies, I researched rape for a college class, and found out that about half of all rapes that occurred in the U.S. involved a man breaking into the home of a single woman, and about another ten percent started with a man hiding in the back seat of a woman’s car and ambushing her when she got behind the wheel. Actions to stop those seemed obvious. So I mentioned casually one day that over half of all rapes could be prevented by taking proper precautions, and a ‘feminist’ jumped all over me for (of course) ‘blaming the victim.’ Sadly, it didn’t occur to me to say ‘So, you think it’s impossible for any woman to protect herself from rape under any circumstances?’ Hilarity would have ensued.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Putting a lock on your door means you support burglary.

Guest
Tarl
1 year 11 months ago

If you leave your wallet on the front doorstep and someone steals it, that is the thief’s fault, not yours! We must teach people not to steal!

Guest
Kristophr
1 year 11 months ago

( socialist think ) It’s your fault for having more money than the theif, and not freely giving it to him, you capitalist pig.

Guest
DaveP.
1 year 11 months ago

Kris, I remember the ’70s and that’s almost verbatim the attitude the ‘elites’ had about crime.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I was born in ’61. Been there, got the t-shirt.

Guest
Alpheus
1 year 11 months ago

Actually, it *is* the thief’s fault. No one should be taking wallets, let alone taking them from your front porch.

Having said that, since I don’t want my wallet to be stolen, I do my best to keep it in my pocket, or at least on my night stand. And if I do forget, and accidentally leave my wallet on the porch, and it gets stolen, I’m still going to insist that the thief, if caught, should have charges brought against him!

(And this is why taking common sense measures to prevent victimization isn’t “blaming the victim”: rape is wrong, so we should do our best to prosecute those who commit rape, even if the victim could have been better aware of her surroundings, but a little awareness will go a long way to preventing such horror from happening in the first place!)

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Remember the old “Lock your car. Don’t let a good boy go bad.” campaign? New flash! A good boy will not steal your car.

Guest
NKR
1 year 11 months ago

It all started as astroturf. There are these groups for the prevention of “sexual assault” that rake in the bucks. They have to spread this “rape culture” meme. And, sadly, there are a lot of shrill harpies out there who love to be part of that club. Colleges have expanded the definition of “sexual assault” so many men have no idea what they’ve done to be called up to the tribunal. Luckily, some of these guys have pluck and they’re suing now, which I support and celebrate.

When making eye contact is considered “sexual harassment” and proof of “rape culture”, then you’ve got problems. And this is what’s going on at colleges all over the country. It’s a very dangerous trend.

Guest

On the note of “eye contact = sexual harassment” vein… there’s this piece of news.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/06/09/13/16/woman-attacks-man-on-public-beach-for-using-drone

The only other bit I could find on it was on The Daily Mail. Funny that…

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Maybe it’s me but I’m having a hard time figuring out where you stand on this issue. X0D

Hmmm….maybe that’s why I’m liking MHI series so much; it seems to be the little guy getting the field level and getting some back.

Go Skippy! oo/

Guest
Wes S.
1 year 11 months ago

The problem with this “rape culture” nonsense, first of all, is that the academic Left has expanded the term “rape” to include a hell of a lot of consensual sex…and behavior that has nothing to do with sex or violence at all.

As an example of the mindset at work here, I present one academic’s “profile” of a “typical collegiate rapist:”

>”After that night, the accuser spoke with several Occidental employees, including Danielle Dirks, an assistant professor of sociology. Dirks told the accuser that Doe “fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on [a sports team], and was ‘from a good family.'”<

http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/04/occidental-expels-student-for-rape-under

Short version of the case above: Two college students decided to hook up at the female's invitation. The female then had morning-after regrets, thanks in part to idiots like like Professor Dirks – and decided she'd actually been raped because both of them had been drinking.

One suspects that Prof. Dirks is one of those feminist – womynist? – lunatics that defines all penis-in-vagina sex as rape.

In any event, the cops investigated and ruled that the sex had obviously been consensual. The school nonetheless – selectively applying its own guidelines regarding sexual contact between students – ruled that the male student was a rapist and expelled him. The unidentified student, of course, is now suing the school.

Pray tell: How do you "teach students not to rape" when you can't even decide what "rape" actually is in the first place, or change your definition of "rape" after the fact?

Guest
NKR
1 year 11 months ago

It’s not about teaching anyone not to rape, it’s about expanding the definition so you can call it an epidemic. Then you get the hashtags and the organizations and the dollars rolling in. All at the expense of a generation of people (both men and women) who will be severely damaged by this crap. Can you imagine trying to date in this atmosphere?

Guest
Wes S.
1 year 11 months ago

The question was purely rhetorical. And yes, you might be safer trying to clear a Waziristan minefield with a pointed stick, then trying to pick up a coed on a modern American college campus these days.

Of course, while the Left demands we teach boys not to rape, they’re also all about teaching teenage girls about the joys of sadomasochistic OH JOHN RINGO NO sex.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/06/10/video-planned-parenthood-sex-education-everything-youd-guess-it-would-be/

*facepalm*

Guest
Jared Anders
1 year 11 months ago

If this continues on for much longer it won’t just be us religious types who simply swear off sex until marriage.

I’m fine with that. A rather large number of young men and women won’t be, but what else are they going to do?

Personally I think (hope) a lot of the people who believe this crap are simply well intentioned idiots, but that hardly matters against the reality of how freaking messed up its making my generation.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Larry, as usual, you have eloquently said everything I’ve been thinking. I’d say I want to subscribe to your newsletter, but, I guess I already do. Thank You.

Guest
Cranky McBasstard
1 year 11 months ago

Funny, in my defensive driving course way back when I drove for Fed Ex, I was SUPPOSSED to make eye contact with oncoming traffick to make sure they saw me. Both Men and WOMEN. I guess that was rape as well. I don’t have a little girl, I have a son. A great kid with a good heart that cares about others. And we’ve been teaching him to be a man, following those same prinsciples. If I had a daughter, i’d teach her the same things…. be aware of your surroundings, panick is natural but often counter to what you must do to survive, and if, if someone thinks you are their prey, fuck them up beyond recognition, then call me and I’ll take care of the body.

Guest
Greg "Blotto" Garrett
1 year 11 months ago

“Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.” – John Kenneth Galbraith

That being said, how far into cognitive dissonance do you have to be before (advocating self defense = blame the victim) makes sense?

Only slightly facetiously, I’m surprised that NOW isn’t more pro-gun, or at least pro-self-defense. What’s more empowering to the sex with less muscle mass, a firearm that levels the playing field, or believing that rapists are just a few sensitivity classes away from respect?

Expanding on this “logic” train, I guess that they believe that all rapists can be rehabilitated, and that any recidivism doesn’t indicate a failure of their logic, it just means we haven’t been rehabilitating ENOUGH. This’ll work if we just keep trying the same thing harder, right?

There is no transitive property of guilt or empathy. Just because you are vulnerable to these emotions does not in any way confer the same thing to criminals who might prey upon you. That seems to be one of the fundamental failures of liberal “logic” in this case. As Larry said, criminals don’t give a damn what you think or believe, and those in denial just can’t wrap their minds around the idea that THE world might not be simply a larger version of how they perceive THEIR world.

Growing up, our next door neighbor flew for American Airlines (a little leeway, your honor. My point is coming). Fred was a conservative, but otherwise very much in the cognitive dissonance camp. My mom knew another AA pilot, and asked him if he knew Fred. His response was classic; “Oh yeah. Fred’s the kind of guy who, while you were crashing, would dig out the flight manuals and, in great detail, explain to you how this could not be happening.”

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Greg “Blotto” Garrett wrote:
“There is no transitive property of guilt or empathy. Just because you are vulnerable to these emotions does not in any way confer the same thing to criminals who might prey upon you. That seems to be one of the fundamental failures of liberal ‘logic’ in this case.”

It’s a human failing, not a liberal one. ‘Everyone is really exactly like me’ can be found in many places. For example, when whites expanded across the continent, the majority thought of the Amerinds as sub-human because they didn’t yearn to live like whites. A minority saw that the ‘Injuns’ were obviously human, and assumed that as soon as it was explained to them properly, the savages would become Presbyterian farmers. That the natives might be human and NOT want to live like whites seems to have escaped almost everyone but the mountain men, and they liked living the way the Indians did. I NEVER encountered anyone saying anything like ‘The thought of living like the Injuns appalls me, but they’re human and have a right to live that way.’

As a greater man than I said: “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil.

“…. If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

“It’s a human failing, not a liberal one. ‘Everyone is really exactly like me’ can be found in many places.”

To be sure, which is why I added the qualifier “…in this case.” In a thread that’s bouncing around from Paganism to Phineas & Ferb, the last thing I wanted to do was open the discussion up further beyond the original topic. Having said that, you are of course correct that limited perception knows no political bounds. I oppose belief and champion reason wherever and whenever I can.

Dehumanizing opponents has also long been a staple of both “good” and “evil”, though admittedly sociopaths have an easier time of it than those with a more intact conscious. I doubt serial killers and rapists have much trouble with PTSD, at least due to guilt or regret. “Good” people have demonized other groups, from “Japs” in WWII to “immigrants”, well, forever. That doesn’t make it right though, nor does the existence of the trait pretty much across the board mean that anyone pointing it out is invalidated by hypocrisy.

As far as the Solzenitzyn quote, I’m old and prefer the shorter one from Mary Shelley: “No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks.”

In that context, crooks are like the law-abiding in that they are pursuing what they want. In the case of crooks though, what they want is whatever serves them directly, while law-abiding citizens tend to pursue what benefits society (or themselves through society). What really floats most crooks’ boats (and those of the law-abiding for that matter) is compliance, but crooks lack empathy (or apply it selectively) The suffering they cause to those around them never rises to the point of their caring. “Good” people can suppress their empathy too, though it takes a little more manipulating, while the sociopath lacks empathy from the get-go. Arguing; “None of us is perfect, so what’s the point?” doesn’t really help, though it does explain at least some of the rampant alcoholism in Russia.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Larry: I think there’s a disconnect between the words that group is using, and the meaning you’re deriving from them. When they say “teach men not to rape”, I suspect you’re mostly thinking of “held at knifepoint and dragged into an alley by a stranger” rape. But there is lots of rape in the world that doesn’t fit that narrative, from molestation of children by authority figures to date rape. I think a better way of phrasing the statement would be “ensure that men know what constitutes rape”.

And when they speak of “rape culture”, they are not talking solely of forcible sexual penetration. Again, “sexual assault culture” might be a better term (at least for accuracy, although it lacks the verbal punch of the other phrase), encompassing all of the ways in which women are harassed on a regular basis. Now, maybe the more overt ones don’t happen where you can see them, and to be fair, most of the stories I hear are from SF and NYC, but I’m talking about women being groped, catcalled, followed, aggressively leered at, etc. The term “rape culture” is used to describe an environment in which some portion of the men in that society grow up thinking that is acceptable or even positive behaviour to engage in. (And I know that you know better than to say that culture and environment don’t affect how children turn out as they grow up.) So that sort of thing happens all the time, and sometimes it goes farther and women are raped, and then women hear that they need to be the ones to defend themselves (and yes, I do realise that in the moment, they’re the only ones they can count on being there, and on their side) and I can see how that feels like if they are unsuccessful at defending themselves, they are being saddled with the culpability of having been raped.

Don’t get me wrong, I think a lot of what that crowd says is plumb stupid. But I think you should consider the possibility of thinking about the idea that the overall culture of America is a lot more accepting of sexually oriented misbehaviour towards women than you might have previously realised.

Guest
Tarl
1 year 11 months ago

when they speak of “rape culture”, they are not talking solely of forcible sexual penetration.

Such an attempt to redefine rape should be rejected out of hand – it is false and is a slap in the face to those who are victims of the real crime.

I’m talking about women being groped, catcalled, followed, aggressively leered at, etc.

Sorry chief, but none of that is rape.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Sorry chief, but none of that is rape.

Exactly. Not all boorish behavior raises to the level of rape. To equate it all as even similar is an insult to real rape victims.

Guest
Ascher Goodrich
1 year 11 months ago

If this is the new definition of rape then I really need to talk to a lawyer. I am a young man and I have been repeatedly,”groped, catcalled, followed, aggressively leered at, etc.” by members of the fairer sex. Did I get raped and didn’t even know it?

Just want to add I am not in any way trying to detract from women who have experienced this sort of behavior from men and suffered for it. I’m just trying to point out that these actions aren’t rape.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

If they meant “catcall culture”, they should have said so. The term “rape culture” was invented to leave people unable to distinguish annoyance from assault from actual rape.

This works two ways: Harassment—or even “gaze”—can now be treated as rape (inflating minor injuries, or minimizing rape, or both); and disagreement with the concept of “rape culture” can now be taken as support for “rape culture”. Because #logic.

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Paul (Drak Bibliophile) Howard
1 year 11 months ago

“sexually oriented misbehaviour towards women”?

The problem is that “sexually oriented misbehaviour towards women” can include “looking at a woman the wrong way” which in turn means anything a woman wants it to mean.

Sorry, not only do I disagree with your claim concerning stuff that a reasonable person would call “sexually oriented misbehaviour towards women”, I’m saying that the term “sexually oriented misbehaviour towards women” is badly misused by Leftish women.

Years ago, I heard of a study on “violence against women” where a man getting angry and leaving the room was considered “violence against women”.

IMO this sort of garbage is what Leftish women use in their attacks on men.

Guest
dgarsys
1 year 11 months ago

Under sexually oriented misbehavior, there’s an SNL skit that is “funny but its true” with Tom Brady about how to avoid a sexual harassment skit, playing off of how women often let attractive men/jerks get away with behavior that gets other men labeled as “creeps”.

transcript here as I couldn’t get to the video from my current site: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/04/04qfunhouse.phtml

Announcer: See? It can be done. You can have sex with women at work without losing your job, by following a few simple rules:

[ the rules are displayed on-screen with accompanying check marks ]

Be Handsome..

Be Attractive..

and Don’t Be Unattractive.

Guest
NR Pax
1 year 11 months ago

So he should hire a translator first to explain the layers of meaning behind stupid shit like this?

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

You can’t really translate gibberish into English.

Guest
Tarl
1 year 11 months ago

You can’t really translate gibberish into English.

Yes but you can have a prize-winning debate team that speaks nothing but gibberish!

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/how-to-speak-gibberish-win-a-national-debate-title/

Guest
NR Pax
1 year 11 months ago

Hey, Google Translate does it…Hm. Never mind; that’s Norwegian.

Guest
Heather
1 year 11 months ago

Let me reply as a woman. Perlhaqr, sexual misbehavior is not rape. The very things these fainting flowers of sheltered femininity (who scream they are independent and need no one) claim to rial against, they are promoting. They are teaching men it is not worth it to be a gentleman. They scream about men opening doors, they indulge in far cruder catcalls than most men will indulge in, they wear clothing designed to catch the eye (then whine that they got looked at), they complain bitterly after being propositioned when wearing teeny shorts with ‘F* Me!’ spelled out in big letters on their ass, they slap a man on the but (if he complains he’s gay, if he slaps back he’s harassing her), the list goes on. All things I have personally witnessed. None of them right and every last one of them justified by ‘violence against women’ and ‘harassment against women.’

I’ve been catcalled, leered at, and actually harassed in various ways. There is a world of difference between a bully trying to pin you to your locker in jr. High (or a creep following you through town) and getting looked at because you look good in daisy Duke’s (old style not the modern your-butt-is-showing version) and a tank top. I might listen to them if they ever bother to make that distinction, but I don’t see that happening any time soon.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I think I read somewhere, probably on twitter, that we men are guilty of eye-raping woman.

Guest
Mike
1 year 11 months ago

The thing is, even provided that you accept every single argument they have about the definition of rape, about needing to teach men to not “rape” under that definition, and about changing the rape culture…

Teaching girls to defend themselves for now, until the wonderful future day where we have successfully rehabilitated the entire world, is NOT blaming the victim!

There is nothing incompatible with their definition of rape culture and the concept of armed self defense for women. It only becomes one when you raise up this cult of helpless victimhood.

Guest
Greg "Blotto" Garrett
1 year 11 months ago

I learned in sexual harassment awareness training while still in the Air Force (yes, I actually stayed awake and paid attention to the degree that I remembered something) that the power to define sexual harassment lies with the victim, not the perpetrator. That makes sense to a degree (certainly more so than deferring to the alleged harasser), but giving all the legal power to the alleged victim opens up the door for reverse abuse. Giving women the power to unilaterally abuse men in court would help prosecute and possibly deter rape, but at the cost of giving them the power to falsely accuse men after consensual sex. Providing a means for counter-abuse isn’t really justice. I wasn’t a rapist in college (nor have I ever been) but I was socially awkward. The last thing I needed in order to develop into the confident, respectful heterosexual I am today was the threat of being hauled in to the campus police because I looked a coed in the eye. Like criminal gun users, the only people you’re likely to influence with such aggressive law enforcement are folks who aren’t the problem in the first place. The law-abiding citizens will be cowed, while the criminals will keep committing crimes, because they just don’t care.

There is no Constitutional right to have your delusions, desires and beliefs left intact. Not wanting to be eaten won’t keep a pack of wolves from tearing you to shreds if they’re given the chance. If you don’t want to be eaten, then don’t act like food. I’m not at all defending the rapist line “she was asking for it”, but at the same time I don’t think the answer to male physical dominance is female legal dominance. The middle ground of the hypothetical “reasonable person” would be most fair, if also most elusive. If you think that eye contact is sexually aggressive, I think the reasonable person would say “Take an EST class and learn how to take an active role in your own life.” Less reasonable is to expect the world to avoid eye contact with you and you alone for the rest of your life, while simultaneously accommodating the rest of humanity’s individual peccadillos. There is no right to live a life unburdened by reality, nor is there a right to limit the definition of consensual sex to only those conditions agreed to by the most restrictive critic. In a related point, I wonder how many of the liberal women’s rights groups realize that by constraining consensual sex to its most narrow definition, they’re getting awfully close to Puritanism. Probably not their role model going in to the debate.

There is no right to be pain-free in life. No right to be responsible only for the good aspects of life, and to foist off the bad parts off on others. Pain is nature’s way of telling you to do something different, whether it’s “take your hand off the stove” or “fight off the rapist”. That’s not empowering the rapist, it’s empowering the would-be victim, while acknowledging that rapists do in fact exist, whether you like it or not. Others cannot remove all aspects of life that might cause you pain. The most extreme (and extremely wrong) expression of the liberal viewpoint was related to me years ago (by a conservative) as; “Wipe my ass for me…no wait, I’m not done yet.”

There are real rapes occurring on college campuses, and elsewhere. Reference the links below about gang rapes in India and Egypt. Argue those as “rape cultures” and you might have a point. There’s no need to pad the numbers with glances askance or cat-calls. And there are women who are victimized and hesitant to come forward and report the crimes, or better yet defend themselves before they become victims. And there are schools, police departments and other organizations more motivated to cover up the crimes than catch the criminals. Those egregious failures of justice need to be addressed and fixed. Don’t you think those are more worthy targets of feminist angst than are those of us who espouse the idea that the world is not (and will never be) conflict-free? Spastic denialist liberals intent on preserving the pain-free fantasy world of their beliefs are doing far more to perpetuate the “rape culture” than any beauty contestant audacious enough to suggest that women actually take their safety into their own hands and learn to defend themselves from a threat that is very much extant, and beyond society’s ability to eliminate. Self-defense certainly seems like a more practical alternative to the liberal playbook of guilt and nagging.

References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Egypt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/31/world/asia/india-gang-rape/

Guest
Underwhelmed
1 year 11 months ago

That was glorious. Thank you.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

If we’re talking about context, Miss Sanchez’s original comments were made in response to a question about sexual assault. It’s her critics who are distorting her words to fit their narrative.

Guest
Synova
1 year 11 months ago

But you see, perlhagr, men who can be taught not to rape were already not rapists. By redefining rape to catcalls, they are, in fact, denying *rape*. Now it means catcalls.

So a choice has been made to keep women vulnerable to rapists… so that they can focus on the gropers, catcallers, and drunk sexers.

I honestly don’t think that it is possible that there is an excuse for that.

Guest
Kristophr
1 year 11 months ago

Most of these retards are redefining rape in intensely silly ways. Apparently their goal is to classify all male vaginal penetration as rape.

Don’t feed these retards by rationalizing their retardation.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Oh, there are some who fully admit that they believe that any of what we would call “normal intercourse” is rape. Search for “PIV is Rape” if your blood pressure can stand it.

Guest
mikeweatherford
1 year 11 months ago

When I was a kid growing up, I was taught to respect women — all women. I found that respecting women and treating them with respect and dignity was the greatest “date bait” in the world. I won’t say I had to fight ’em off (my face is pictured in the dictionary under “ugly mug”), but I found women easy to date, and had a great time with them. Of course, I’m 67 years old, and grew up with the dinosaurs, but going back to the culture of mutual respect would cut out a lot of this crap that’s going on today. Kids today have little or no respect for parents, other adults, on each other. Is there any wonder they act the way they do? I’m talking about both boys and girls. I’m not “out of touch” – we still have a 9YO at home.

Guest
Ascher Goodrich
1 year 11 months ago

@Lea- “I have to say I don’t agree that you shouldn’t forgive people. I think forgiveness is a thing we do for ourselves, as much as for others. Because hatred and bitterness eats away at you and can turn you into someone you don’t want to be.”

I don’t believe forgiveness is appropriate for rape. I agree that hatred and bitterness can be bad for a person in the long run(although they can help a person cope in the short run). That is why people have to come to terms with the fact that they were raped. This isn’t the same thing as forgiveness. Maybe one of us is just misinterpreting the situation or the words used, but my understanding is that you should NEVER forgive someone who raped you. I haven’t heard an argument that makes rape forgivable and I doubt I ever will.

Guest
randall rapp
1 year 11 months ago

My personal opinion is its a different version of munchausen’s syndrome, where people make themselves sick to get sympathy and pity from others. “Its okay if I don’t work hard and people take care of me, I’m a victim.”

Guest
dgarsys
1 year 11 months ago

Keeping in mind a lady is not likely to deal well in a toe-to-toe slugfest sans firearms (there’s a reason for weight classes in wrestling and boxing…), self defense training of the hand-to-hand variety should probably focus on (how to) break contact and run…

on the “victim blaming” – years ago on FB I commented that I lacked a certain Lady Gaga song, but not one of her earlier breakouts (just dance”) because the viewpoint character in that (semi-deliberately lost her friends, keys, wallet, cell phone, and did not care) was being hideously irresponsible.

I got blocked for “victim blaming”

Guest
mikeweatherford
1 year 11 months ago

The key there is not going “toe-to-toe” with the guy, but inflicting enough pain and agony he looks for an easier victim. If he’s clutching his genitals and has a broken kneecap, he’s not going to chase you very far. Slamming his nose up through his sinuses into his brain is another very effective method of “inflicting pain”. I don’t know ANY recognized martial art, but I taught my daughters how to inflict pain and agony, and to run and hide. They may not be able to escape the guy chasing them, but they may get enough of a head start they can set up an ambush. As long as you inflict more pain than he does, you’re ahead. The idea that “ya know, this b**ch is gonna kill me” can even penetrate even the thickest head.

Neither of my daughters were raped.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

No, men as a class can outrun women, even when the women are wearing sensible shoes. So if you see a threat and can evade, great, but the most important lesson for self-defense is that once you decide to do violence, you continue till the attacker is physically unable to continue their assault.

Twice in my life I got beaten up because I was in a fight and really didn’t want to hurt the person I was fighting. Recovering from the second beating, it occurred to me that “they don’t matter”, “they” being anyone who attacked me. From then on, I never lost a fight, because when I saw that violence was going to occur, I hit first without warning and didn’t stop till they were helpless. Acquiring that mindset is the most important self-defense lesson I know.

Guest

Twice in my life I got beaten up because I was in a fight and really didn’t want to hurt the person I was fighting. Recovering from the second beating, it occurred to me that “they don’t matter”, “they” being anyone who attacked me.

I’ve had … interesting… conversations with some teenagers over the last couple of months and your story reminded me of one of them. Good kid, took studies more seriously than the average teen, and as the eldest took care of his younger siblings because his parents worked night shift jobs.

Without getting into too much detail for privacy reasons, several of us older guild members (most of whom are parents) had to encourage him to learn how to protect himself against a psychotic ex girlfriend as well as fight back against her cronies – and the guy was a kickboxing enthusiast. The girl was a terrifying example of lying manipulative bitch who knew exactly how to act and what to say to the cops so that the guy was at a loss on how to deal with her without getting into jail time. Phones with the ability to record voice and security cameras at his house were what saved his ass from being nailed by a false accusation of rape or physical assault.

Later on us parents talked about how scary the world of teenagers was quickly becoming, and that we were glad we weren’t teenagers any more.

Guest
dgarsys
1 year 11 months ago

Not directly tied to rape, but there is a case in FL where a guy dropped by his exes house (the mother in law was there as well) to pick up his kids. Argument ensued, driven almost entirely by mom in law who shot him repeatedly (and with poor aim) with a small-caliber pistol.

MIL and daughter then reported that he had come over all belligerent, and they had to shoot him in self defense, etc.

Police bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Fortunately when he woke up in the hospital dye later, he could tell the police that he had been recording on his phone, and the entire conversation (that proved MIL had started the altercation) PLUS the conversation afterward where MIL and ex plotted to lie to the police, exonerated him.

The growing numbers of crazy entitled narcissists and borderlines who are willing to lie through their teeth and destroy people and their lives and livelihood when they don’t get what they want, even when physical evidence completely contradicts their story, is one reason I take “but I felt violated/betrayed/ashamed so it must have been rape even if no-one had done anything objectively wrong” with a massive grain of contemptuous salt.

I’ve been told to my face that feelings are more important than whether or not someone actually did something wrong.

Guest

The growing numbers of crazy entitled narcissists and borderlines who are willing to lie through their teeth and destroy people and their lives and livelihood when they don’t get what they want,

Oh yeah… don’t get me started on the sheer amounts of crazy women I’ve encountered on Lineage II. They angle mostly for getting a guy to fall for them based on a fake persona, gunning for gifts and money. If the guy falls out of love for them… The most terrifying of the lot that I’d been witnessing from the periphery of was this super fugly woman (both in looks and personality, and no I have no problems with calling a shovel what it is) pretending to be a hot, nubile goth chick online who sucked thousands of dollars from a guy and through ‘if you love me you’ll do this’, controlled all his out of game interactions as well. When he wised up and tried to break away, she harassed him at work, at home, and somehow managed to harass his friends and neighbors. She also filed a false child abuse suit against a couple of friends of his both ingame and out who lived nearby and who had been helpful in getting him convinced to give up the crazy bitch, and got Child Services involved and investigating the family. The only reason why the friends didn’t lose the child was because the child was happy when with the parents, and was flat out terrified when the CS people tried to take him away for the duration of the investigation. As in flat out started crying for mommy and daddy when they tried to talk to him alone.

There’s also been a trend that we’ve noticed in MMOs where a woman will claim she was raped in order to suck up the attention; give forth on why she never got justice in great detail, and milk it for all it’s worth in gear and ingame funds and status. Inevitably said woman will also cause other types of drama against perceived threats to her ‘position.’ I don’t think I need to explain my deep, contemptuous hatred for any woman who does this. Often too, the rape never happened, or it was bad-breakup claims of rape, or purely consensual, but guy didn’t look as hot the day after without the alcohol.

Yeah. Gonna try not to get too mad today, but yes yes yes on narcissistic entitled blue cheese c-monsters.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

On a somewhat tangential note, to illustrate just how “out there” this stuff can get.

I just saw an argument about the Disney Movie “Tangled.” It seems that “hair” is supposed to be a symbol for virginity* which makes Flynn’s cutting Rapunzel’s hair in the climax–since he “forced” it on her–a “rape scene.”

What? To keep her free from a lifetime of servitude to the witch (Rapunzel _always_ keeps her promises) he sacrifices his own chance at life. He takes an action that, so far as he knows, will leave him dead, but Rapunzel free.

There are people who read a rape into that?

*Then there’s the bit about the tiara. This one gets even farther out there. You see, a tiara is a crown. Crown in Latin is “corona” (incidentally the name of the nation in which Rapunzel was born). But, it so happens that “corona” is a medical term for the hymen. So when Rapunzel give Flynn the tiara (crown)….

The people making these arguments never cracked a smile. They are utterly dead serious about this.

So when someone uses the term “rape” but claims “I don’t mean it in the criminal sense”, given the very vocal people who very much do mean it in a criminal sense, well, unless that person has been living under a rock for the last several decades, I have to call shenanigans.

Guest

While insane for the context of the story of Tangled this is valid in other stories, such as in Katanagatari where Rape of the Lock was viewed as being the same as sexual rape (the setting being based in a fantastical feudal Japan, and the characters in the story reacted as if the female character was raped. There is no indication that this is the case in the world of Tangled however, so the bitching about cutting Rapunzel’s hair isn’t valid (nor is the bit about the corona/crown, since in this case Corona refers to the sun symbology that surrounds the kingdom in-story; the corona of the sun.) This is especially highlighted in the reaction of the King and Queen, and of Rapunzel herself. The distress Rapunzel feels is due to knowing with what Flynn did he will die and she will lose the man she loves; the King and Queen ignore her hair entirely and look at Rapunzel’s eyes and face to confirm her identity (eyedentity? *grin). Her hair being shorn is not a factor, nor a seen as a shame, a violation or in any negative light at all.

TL:DR the people whimpering about rape and giving virginity in Tangled are idiots for doing so. They’d have better mileage in Katanagatari, but only within the context of the anime story itself.

There have been historical examples and cultural examples where the display of one’s hair = sexual cue. The one that came to mind is Old Testament Judaism, where hair is one of the examples of female beauty; seen on the level as breasts at least (based off of the Song of Solomon, according to what I remember reading) and that the long hair of a woman isn’t something she reveals to people outside of the family, and when she is wed, only to her husband. (This is, I was told, why Hassidic Jews cover their hair and wear wigs even today.) I’d discovered that when I wanted to find out why most Jews don’t wear headscarves / don’t cover their hair any more despite having a similar cultural background on that front as Islam. (Answer: it’s not a religious tradition, but a cultural one, and cultural mores change.)

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

“In place of practicing wholesome self-abnegation, we ever make the wish the father to the thought: we receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us; whereas the very reverse is required by every dictate of common sense.” – Michael Faraday

If you start with a belief, and subsequently deny any information to the contrary, there is no limit to the nonsense you can accept as true. This “belief over reason” is my personal arch-villain, even though I’m still susceptible to it myself. While I’d hoped the internet would facilitate facts over belief, in truth it’s just allowed believers to gather from the four corners of the world remotely, and reinforce each others belief.

I’ve just started reading it, but even so I highly recommend Michael Shermer’s “The Believing Brain”. It’s depressing to realize that despite telling ourselves that we are rational beings, we’re actually the product of 3.5B years of evolution, the vast majority of which was devoted to developing reflex, instinct and emotion, with only the thinnest veneer of reason spackled over the top of the mess.

Guest
joehuffman
1 year 11 months ago

Once, in extreme frustration, I asked my crazy (probably Borderline Personality Disorder) (now ex-) wife how she determined truth from falsity. Her answer was, “It depends on how I feel.” She was serious.

When I would attempt to point out that her version of reality did not match physical reality she would get anger and claim, “You always have to get your own way!” She was serious.

Words meant what she wanted them to mean at that particular moment. One time she called and asked me to pick up her sister at the airport. “I can probably do that. Which airport?” She told me the approximate time. “Which airport?” She told me the probably airline. “Which AIRPORT?” She told me the departure city. “Which AIRPORT?!!!!” She turned to her other sister and told her, “We need to find someone else to pick her up because Joe can’t do it.” Then she hung up on me. I eventually got the airport information and picked up her sister. We went to baggage claim and I asked her, “How many bags do you have?” She said, “They are green.” Yes. It is a family thing. Her brother is an admitted hard-core Marxist and a professor at a college of business.

Even when they hauled her off to the psych ward she insisted there was nothing wrong with her. It was all my fault she had gotten into a high speed chase with the state patrol and deliberately crashed her Jeep into a concrete barrier, then climbed the barrier and swam out into the near flood stage river from the melting snow pack.

I could tell stories for hours (I was married to her for almost 38 years) but you get the idea.

There are a lot of crazy people out there and protecting yourself from them is tough because they can be functional most of the time and appear to be rational for sufficiently long periods of time to convince most people there isn’t anything wrong with them.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Wow….. all I can say to that is ‘how the hell did you last 38 years?’

Guest
Patrick Chester
1 year 11 months ago

Oh yeah… don’t get me started on the sheer amounts of crazy women I’ve encountered on Lineage II. They angle mostly for getting a guy to fall for them based on a fake persona, gunning for gifts and money

*reads example further but not quoting it here*

So… this is a player you could confirm is an actual woman and not a guy w/a female character?

^_^;;

(Since I have a few female characters in SWTOR. The female Smuggler voice is, as I put it, full of snarky awesome.)

(This does make me wonder about the two female characters dancing around the casino on Nar Shaddaa late last Friday into Saturday morning.) 😮

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

G.I.R.L. = Guy In Real Life :-p

Guest

Voice chat, phone and skype were amongst the mediums used to communicate with the victim. Now the people who got hurt / were trying to help the guy all lived near each other – I didn’t (hence me saying I was on the periphery as I only saw parts of what was occurring in game) all belonged to the same clan and voice chat was required to coordinate play. They said she was a woman. And the couple who had CS sicced on them were able to get that a woman had called CS to report the ‘abuse’. They weren’t able to get more detail than that.

And I’m aware of GIRLs. This one wasn’t one. Too vicious in a way that a guy isn’t capable of unless he’s a very effeminite gay (in my experience.)

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

That’s pretty shameful. Hope she gets what’s coming to her someday. :-/

Guest

I know the rest of the gang knew she was a girl because she would insist that her victim call her, put his phone in his shirt pocket, so she could listen in on all the conversations, to make sure she wasn’t the topic. They discovered this when she started screaming into the phone when the topic DID veer into talking about her. The guy was very, very brainwashed. I think she suddenly, abruptly ceased all communications when it seemed like the group of friends were looking into trying for prosecution, but this is early on and it’s still difficult NOW to push for cyberstalking and similar cases in the US (especially if you’re not a student any more) and I think they were just so relieved that she went away that they dropped it. The friends eventually quit playing. From what I know though the reason why they didn’t get angry at the victim was because a few of them had met their girlfriends / wives in the game, moved in together and eventually married. Bad luck for him…

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

0.o….. I’m not sure ‘brainwashed’ is a strong enough term. SMDH….

Y’know, I’m suddenly curious: did he offer any justification to his friends for doing that? What possible moronic excuse could he come up with?

Guest

I think she originally posed wanting to listen in… in more ‘cute’ terms – ‘I don’t wanna feel left out’ or ‘It’d be like I’m going with you!’ and such; and that they originally knew she was listening in. But she kept quiet and they eventually forgot that she was… so…

Guest
Patrick Chester
1 year 11 months ago

I know the rest of the gang knew she was a girl because she would insist that her victim call her, put his phone in his shirt pocket, so she could listen in on all the conversations, to make sure she wasn’t the topic.

Um… 😮

Guest
joehuffman
1 year 11 months ago

Dave W.:

Wow….. all I can say to that is ‘how the hell did you last 38 years?’

As my counselor said when I told her I had decided to get divorced, “Mere mortals would have left years ago.”

In hindsight there were signs from before we got married. Her Mom, especially, demonstrated the same symptoms. But hindsight is so much better than foresight.

And it happened somewhat slowly over the years. A boiled frog and all that.

Guest
CombatMissionary
1 year 11 months ago

Names have been changed to protect the innocent. 😉
A parental figure we’ll call “Bob” once told me that if you want to see what a woman will look like in 25 years, look at her mom.

Maybe we should amend that to, “If you want to see how a woman will treat her husband…”

Guest
Ree1
1 year 11 months ago

@Combat Missionary…

Like he said- hindsight is 20/20. But he does prove a point on relationships and people. Not all disfunctional relationships start that way. They evolve and grow, and it takes two people. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way.

That being said, I respect your faith, and I do agree with waiting on intimacy until you know the person, but again, as humans we all change over time, and sometimes for the worse.

When I married, I looked to see how he treated his mother. He treated her like gold. We enjoyed her company, and I learned a lot about quilting from her, we spent a lot of time together. That is, until she started getting dementia. That is when it changed. He was so uncomfortable with who she was becoming- he was horrid. Short tempered, yelling, mean to everyone. Nothing I had seen in the man I had known for 8 years prior to marrying. This went on for years. Nothing anyone could do or say. I tried to be understanding- it was his mom, after all. I watched my Gma lose who she was too. It was heartbreaking. But his reaction was beyond rational. Fear of losing who your parent knows them selves to be, sorrow at losing a parent, certainly. But this was crazy anger. No amount of counceling or sympathy helped.

Back to an earlier post of mine- you can not plan for everything, but you can be aware of your surroundings and act accordingly.

I saw what my future would hold, as my family too, has this unfortunate degenerative disease. Nothing in the 8 years prior to my marriage showed me that this was in this man. None of our mutual friends had any idea he was like this. We were all shocked.

Do I think I had a hand in his decline? No idea. Was there an issue with me? (as YOU @CombatMissionary suggested) No idea. I could have not married him, certainly. But what’s the point? I fell in love with the person I knew for 8 years. I married the person I looked forward to becoming a partner with. I looked to my own when this happened, and saw I did what I could, everything he asked of me, and he turned it against me. So I left. If that makes me the culpable one, so be it.

Guest
CombatMissionary
1 year 11 months ago

I’m not making any judgments about you or your situation, sorry if it came across that way. Clearly we can’t control everything. I would be stupid to suggest that. All we can do is try to live our lives to minimize the odds of getting into horrible situations. They’re not always avoidable. Sometimes great people change despite taking precautions. Sometimes horrible people change. But if we’re careful with our conduct, we can minimize our chances of becoming a statistic. Even if I wasn’t religious, avoiding sex before marriage can avoid a huge range of problems, and the further our world goes down into the “rape culture” culture or the anti-masculine culture, the more problems a modicum of self-discipline can help us avoid.

Guest
Ree1
1 year 11 months ago

@CombatMissionary

Thank you for the clarification. It did come across a bit judgmental. But then again, I have a candy red button that says, “instant temper- lump me in with the idiots…” Sorry.

I resent the men and women in our culture who have made themselves such well known examples that the rest of us who are, for lack of a better term, stable. I can’t say normal, as ‘normal’ is what society dictates is the general acceptable behavior. Which is what started this conversation in the first place, no?

Anytime I hear of a woman spouting such nonsense as that woman in the bar, or ‘Teach men not to rape.’ Excuse me? Men aren’t born with the fundimantal need to rape. My son wasn’t born a rapist. Or a man stating that all women are money grubbing opprotunists who will use them and throw them away, or they may try to pin some crime on them Grr…

All children should be taught respect by action, thought and deed of their peers, parents and community. I truely wish every child could be. But I know this isn’t the case, I know there are children caught in an endless cycle of pain, hate and anger their parents bring them into and they follow their example, right or wrong. I know it takes one hell of a will to break the cycle, for those children to grow up and to say, “I won’t be like them.” And, unfortunately, there are those who are beyond help, those who are born wrong, who choose to commit heanous acts against men, women and children. I personally think this may be a genetic defect. Is there a spiritual aspect? Maybe, perhaps born without a soul? An ability to link to another human on a base empathic level of understanding. Again, it is so hard to tell. There could be those with the lack of the ‘compassion gene’ yet have the iron will to do no harm.

Either way, there are days I would love to walk up to the harried mom and give her a hug when her kids are screaming and crying, as it is obvious she has done without to give them what she can. Or force that bloody so-and-so with the iPhone, gold chains, Gucci purse and food stamps to get off the damn phone and bring her kid under control!

Guest
CombatMissionary
1 year 11 months ago

Yeah, I was afraid of that. Fifteen years in the military has NOT done good things for my personality. I tend to be the kind of guy, these days, that would say something like, “Hey, STUPID! For Pete’s sake, you moron, if you would just live your life like THIS, you’d be a lot happier! I’m telling you this because I care about you, you knucklehead!” and genuinely mean it. So, yeah, I tend to sound fairly arrogant sometimes. I’m working on it. I think I’m gradually evolving into the kind of guy who would say, “Come on, dummy, let’s go make your lawn look nice, that way I won’t have to tell you to get off mine.” 😀

Guest
Icarusflu
1 year 11 months ago

I have a 12 year old son and I am worried about what the world will be like for him as he gets older and starts dating. Look at whatnhas been happening to college campuses with the change is sexual assault rules. Men (or really boys) are being accused of rape, put up before campus courts, not allowed to defend themselves, and convicted sexual assult with a “preponderance of the evidence” (50.01%).

We haven’t been able to teach all men to read. We haven’t been able to teach all men to take responsibility for themselves. We haven’t been able to teach all men to be Men. So women who care about themselves should learn to take care of themselves when they come accross these monsters disguised as men.

These little delusional Polly Ana princesses need to learn that not all men are Prince Charming.

Guest
Synova
1 year 11 months ago

Enroll him in Tae Kwon Do so he can meet girls. (Well… enroll him now, so he can meet girls there later.)

Guest
Kristophr
1 year 11 months ago

Krav Maga, or even Karate. Most Tae Kwon Do schools are non-contact, and wont teach a student how to take a blow and keep fighting.

If you can find a Tae Kwon Do school that does full contact, go for it.

Guest
Dan
1 year 11 months ago

Through various conversations with my 6 year old daughter about when to fight and when not to she will proudly tell you that if someone was trying to take her away she would “kick them in the pee-pee” and generally cause as much harm as possible. I hope my daughter never has to do that. If she has to I will support that decision. Yes, it is sad that she may have to defend herself. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to teach her to.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I mocked someone yesterday – in fact, I think it’s one of the ones Larry quotes above – by saying we should also teach robber to not rob. The stupid twit said she agreed with that also.

I nearly gave myself a concussion from the facepalm.

Seriously, what these people need to understand is that you can not account for what someone else has or hasn’t been taught. Even if you could, you can’t account for what they will or won’t do with that teaching. The only thing you can be responsible for is what you do or don’t do.

Saying women should learn self defense isn’t victim blaming. Saying women should be careful and alert in certain areas late at night isn’t victim blaming either, though I’ve been told otherwise. It’s no different than advising someone to not hit the ATM in a sketchy part of town. It’s advice to avoid a crime, rather than trying to deal with it.

These “women” are going to get someone killed, if they haven’t already.

Guest
Kristophr
1 year 11 months ago

Rabbits survive by overbreeding.

Guest
Alpheus
1 year 11 months ago

Yes, but aren’t these also the types that believe all PIV sex is rape, and that it’s a moral and just thing to abort children, especially if having a child while young will destroy your all-important career (and especially so if you stay at home and have five or six children, rather than wait until your career is established, and have one or two)?

Overbreeding doesn’t strike me as an option for these folk….

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I’ve seen the argument that by behaving responsibly, avoiding dark alleys and other sketchy areas, and caution when drinking, that *you* are making sure the rapist rapes the other girl.

I just cannot fathom the level of crazy required to come up with that conclusion.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Seriously?

When police educate folks on how to prevent break-ins, some officers will be honest and say that you’re not going to deter a burglar from breaking into someone’s home. You’re just trying to make sure your house looks like an uninviting target so they’ll move on to someone else’s house.

The truth is, no one gets worked up about that, because if everyone makes their house uninviting to a burglar, the burglars will have to do something else.

It’s the same thing with rapists. If it’s my daughter, I want her to look like a bad idea to a would be rapist. Do I want someone else to be raped? Of course not. However, I can’t take care of the world. If her father failed to teach her how to not be a victim, that’s on him, not me. After all, if every daughter looked like a rapist’s worse nightmare, rape statistics would be drop drastically.

Guest
Bruce
1 year 11 months ago

As Mr. Miyagi said, the best way to avoid a punch is to not be there.

Maybe there is some truth to behaving responsibly is making sure the rapist rapes the other girl. I would happily look my daughter (if I had one) in the eye and tell her, “Good. I’m glad you weren’t the victim. You were not, are not, and never will be responsible for the actions of that other girl. You didn’t get raped because you were smart and did the right thing. Good.”

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

*blank stare* *closes own jaw with a click*

Un-freaking-believable……

Guest
Tarl
1 year 11 months ago

*you* are making sure the rapist rapes the other girl.

Well… if it’s a choice between my daughter and some other girl… so be it!

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Well… if it’s a choice between my daughter and some other girl… so be it!

If my daughter, or your daughter, shoots the rapist’s pecker off (okay, okay, little teeny-tiny target with the stress of being on the receiving end of an attempted rape messing up ones marksmanship. Center of mass works too) then no other girls will be raped either–not by that rapist anyway.

Win win.

Guest
Greg "Blotto" Garrett
1 year 11 months ago

Sort of like the t-shirt for DADD (Dad’s Against Daughters Dating):
“Shoot the first one, and the word will spread.”

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Predators look for easy prey. If you present yourself as a hard target, they will move on and find easier prey. They don’t want a struggle or have to worry about getting shot or stabbed or hurt. They want a docile victim who will do what they tell them to do.

It doesn’t always work that way of course, but for the most part, that is what criminals go after.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Yeah, predation WORKS, if the prey is weak enough. The carnivores eat the herbivores. The only herbivores that aren’t preyed upon are those so tough they’d probably kill or seriously injure the carnivore.

Refusing to see that truth seems to be a large part of the “liberal” mindset.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I’ve gotten the same response in discussions, namely, that by avoiding rape one is causing someone else to become a victim. I asked if I lock my doors at night, am I forcing my neighbor to be burglarized?

Predictably, I was immediately accused of equating women with property. Because, logic. Or something.

Guest
Kristophr
1 year 11 months ago

Typical libtard arguing. If you are caught in a logical fallacy, change the subject by accusing your opponent of being a racist or a misogynist, or a nazi, or something else bad.

I don ‘t remember what number that one is on Larry’s list.

Guest
Synova
1 year 11 months ago

“….by behaving responsibly…*you* are making sure the rapist rapes the other girl.”

This is dumb… it’s true though… it’s a little bit like if you don’t want to be eaten by a bear you only have to run faster than the slowest person. So… true-ish but mindbogglingly irrelevant.

Guest

Uh… seriously, and there is no other way to say this: what the fuck? I am NOT going to make myself a victim to ‘protect someone else from being raped. If it’s going to be someone, I’m darned gonna try make sure it’s not going to be me or mine getting hurt. I’m not responsible for the irresponsible moron who floats along with glitterdust on the brain thinking nothing will EVER HAPPEN TO HER. I cannot be the mom to the whole world.

But I will try to take care of my corner of it.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

Who do they think are setting the rape quotas that will be filled– no more, no less?

Since that’s kinda required for the logic to work.

Guest
Mary
1 year 11 months ago

“*you* are making sure the rapist rapes the other girl.”

Nonsense. The other girl is by not taking the same precautions.

Guest
1 year 11 months ago

I have maintained for a very long time now that all girls should be issued a .38 snubbie at age 16 and attend mandatory classes and range time at school. A statist imposition upon the freedoms of our youth its true, but one that would change the fabric of our society for the better.

Girls I have had the honor of taking care of learned to defend themselves with gun, knife, stick, empty hand. They learn to spot trouble before it starts, they learn how to escape and how to hide effectively. They learn when to run and when to fight. They learn how to win in any situation.

This is not because I’m such a super bad-ass, but because I cannot tolerate bullies. Things you can’t tolerate you learn to circumvent or destroy.

The Left Wing objection to self defense can’t be understood from our side of the philosophical equation. We are on the “do it yourself” side.

They are on the “welfare check” side. To them, all things flow from government. Gun control (and the logical extension, rape control) are the “welfare check” of personal safety. Government does these things FOR you, you don’t have to lift a finger to do it yourself.

Men are violent? Men commit rape? Oh, obviously we need a government program to “educate” them into stopping. And by “educate” I mean oppress by means of government’s monopoly on the use of force.

That’s what they’re thinking. They shouldn’t have to do anything, government should take care of it.

They’re not stupid. They’re lazy.