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51 Comments on "In the spirit of two days of Twitter arguing with militant evangelical atheists who hate Christmas:"

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Michael Z. Williamson
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2 years 9 months ago

There’s a huge logical flaw in the title that negates any potential message. 🙂

Michael Z. Williamson
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2 years 9 months ago

Their title, not yours.

Expendable Henchman
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Expendable Henchman
2 years 9 months ago

Well, that and Christianity, as used in the article, generally means “The Catholic church”. An organization with incredible power, tons of cash, and power of life and death on a whim for pretty much all of Europe for over a thousand years. It was fighting wars and executing people for being unbelievers.

Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago

Anthropomorphosising categories is fashion. Get with the times, man.

Alan
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Alan
2 years 9 months ago

Love the article, although he left out a few important names, like Mendel. But hey, if you tried to create a comprehensive list of Christians who were scientists, your blog post would be too long for anyone to read.

Geodkyt
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Geodkyt
2 years 9 months ago

He sdpecifcally mentioned Mendel. Nor did he claim to be listing an exclusive and comprehensive list of Christian scientists.

Expendable Henchman
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Expendable Henchman
2 years 9 months ago

What isn’t pointed out, though, is most of those guys would have been in pretty big trouble, and possibly burnt at the stake, if they’d proclaimed themselves atheists. Atheism was pretty much a closet thing in the west before this generation.

So it really isn’t fair to claim that all science advances in an era of mandatory church membership for the religion.

It’s kind of like declaring all Soviet advances in science a direct result of communism. The soviets and catholics both did plenty of science, but also did quite a bit of oppression too.

Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago

Don’t be ridiculous. Atheists were never burnt at the stake (okay, one or two I think, but not because they were atheists, and they were Socrates style atheists I think, not the contemporary concept). Heretics were, and they were religious. False teachers and all that. Non-believers were to be converted.

Expendable Henchman
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Expendable Henchman
2 years 9 months ago

When everyone is baptized into the church at birth, becoming an atheist is heresy and apostasy.

Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago
So gimme a list, then. All the people that proclaimed they were atheists and got burned for it. And crikey, I would far more likely be burned at the stake for my theological beliefs. Christianity is actually still the most persecuted religion in the world, ironically. But it’s a little douchey to go on about it when my own life has been extraordinarily comfortable in comparison to the Christians actually suffering. So a little perspective, please. Atheism is basically the safest religious sentiment in the world to have. You don’t have to follow any sort of ‘profess your faith openly’… Read more »
DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago
Oh, this is a GREAT blog… for anyone who wants a prime example of a strawman argument! Plus, all of the “Christian” scientists he claims is a bit deceptive, since all people’s beliefs evolve over time. Darwin, for instance, was a devout Christian. And Newton, who made all of his great discoveries before embracing religion. Religion is regressive. (See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1te01rfEF0g) Atheists really don’t care about Christmas, let alone hate it. What we hate is people telling us we hate things. We might not like our tax dollars funding Christian displays, any more than pro-lifers want their tax dollars funding Planned… Read more »
Geodkyt
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Geodkyt
2 years 9 months ago

Um, you’re mistaken the fact that he devoted his later life to religious studies as meaning he only embraced religion at that time.

It is well documented that he was religious well before that point. Hell, he described religious concepts IN his scientific and mathematecal tracts, and was using the scientific and mathematical revelations to VALIDATE his belief in God.

DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago

No… watch the video. It was when he met the “wall” of his knowledge and ability that he then invokes god. Note, too, when he made all of his great discoveries and what came afterward.

Geodkyt
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Geodkyt
2 years 9 months ago

Rather than rely on a YouTube video produced in modern times, I prefer to look at THE ACTUAL WORDS HE WROTE IN HIS SCIENTIFIC WORKS.

Nathan
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Nathan
2 years 9 months ago

Reign in your sophists then. Police your own hotheads. Because I have to listen to the same bad behaviors you slam Christians for from atheists. Without going into who is right and wrong, both sides tend to feel persecuted by the other and are amazed that the other feels the same way.

Because the answer to “can’t we all just get along” by some Atheists is NO, since we must suffer the annual deluge of crap like this.

DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago

Without degenerating into a “you started it” hollerin’ match, my guess is that any and all responses by atheists are just that: responses. We DO have some outreach programs to let other atheists, agnostics, freethinkers and humanists know that they’re not alone, and we’re also active in church/state separation issues. That’s called free speech. It’s laughable that Christians, being 77% of the population, can feel “persecuted” by anyone who question their claims. But the war on Christmas exists only in Bill O’Reilly’s fever dreams and in internet memes where myths turn into crises.

Nathan
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Nathan
2 years 9 months ago
Too late, you did. Let me make a simple observation: some atheists indulge in similar behaviors in antitheistic zealotry as religious zealots do in the name of their faith. Those zealots give rise to the impression that atheists are a persecuting people instead of the persecuted people image you’re trying to sell. You don’t need a god to indulge in theological odium, just a philosophy. Bad behavior happens on both sides. “He started it first” isn’t a justification as a child, and it sure as hell isn’t one among adults. Ignoring and failing to deal with your side’s bad behavior… Read more »
DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago
Well, Nathan, it seems to me that Christians (and other faiths) do one HECK of a lot of promoting, proselytizing and recruiting in the public square and we’re just supposed to shut up and ignore it? Yet if we do the very same thing, we’re somehow being militant? Seriously? Religious philosophies are ideas, and ideas have a marketplace. When ideas are put out into the aether, they become open to questioning. Also, atheism takes a position which, if promoted, will appear oppositional to the theist (of any faith), yet atheists are free to do so because Americans have a right… Read more »
Nathan
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Nathan
2 years 9 months ago

Because, quite frankly, you’re not worth my time and you have no real arguments besides shouting down your opponents. Hell, your point to a pagan was “Christianity sucks.” That alone should call into question your intellectual rigor.

Joseph Capdepon II
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Joseph Capdepon II
2 years 9 months ago

I see a lot of asshole atheists that seem to attack only Christians than I see anything else. You know, like the “Who needs Christ during Christmas” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/05/atheist-billboard-christmas_n_4393051.html

I’m not a Christian, I’m a heathen, Asatru. I could give two shits about anyone’s beliefs as long as they don’t force them on me. Now militant atheists, they piss me off. They are miserable pathetic people who are unhappy and want everyone else to be unhappy.

DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago
Ah, but you don’t really KNOW what they are or what they want, because you don’t know them or talk to them. Their ad looks to me like a cure for those religious people who are unhappy and feeling miserable during the holidays. After all, Christianity tells people that they’re bad; they’re all sinners who fall short, for no reason other than being human. The ad appears to say that it’s better to focus on what really matters (firends, family and being together) than ancient myths. I know a heck of a lot of atheists, and none seem miserable or… Read more »
Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago
I know a heck of a lot of atheists, and none seem miserable or unhappy. On the other hand, the unhappiest of my friends and acquaintances are among the religious. One committed suicide. I don’t want that for anyone. Oh, bullshit. On a different day, you’d probably be going on about how atheists are ‘realistic’ and Christians wrap up all the bad things with fuzzy religious hokey to avoid reality… oh, wait, you did that already. The unhappiest of my friends are atheists or agnostics, who brag about being neurologically unhealthy. All my Christian friends are healthy, happy folks, typically… Read more »
DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago

Discussions are much more happy and productive when your goal is actually arriving at the truth. Your mean-spirited trolling speaks for itself. I can also prove my “anecdotes.”
http://www.corridortribe.com/obits/joseph_wesner.htm

Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago
Wrong. I love talking the way I do. It’s not mean-spirited at all, this is just the funnest way to be expressive. Go ahead, call me an idiot, you know you want to. Uh, but yes, I do speak for myself. Glad you noticed. 🙂 Okay, you linked me to a thing of a dead guy? Why? To be clear, I have no idea whether you had a Christian friend suicide. For all I know you do. It was your claim that Christianity is a cause of institutional depression, and atheism is the way to life and sunshine meadows that… Read more »
Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago
Didn’t you guys make a big billboard in America to the effect of ‘Jesus is a myth and you all know it! blah blah blah Reason gives me blowjobs’ right in front of a Christmas celebration? Dude. Newton was always religious. And back in ye olde times, it was Christianity (specifically the Catholic Church, to give them their due) providing the higher education. Invented the universities. When Newton hit a wall of his knowledge and ability, he thought God was reponsible. So? How is that an issue? He really thought that was the explanation. When Zwicky ‘hit a wall’ for… Read more »
DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago
Some atheist groups (which doesn’t include all of us atheist “you guys”) put up billboards. So what? Churches and religious groups do it all the time. It’s called free speech. Dig it. Newton was, like just about everybody at the time, part of a religious culture, yet he didn’t really throw himself into the study of religion before his mid-to-late 20s. This is where his great discoveries virtually dropped off. (Did you play the Neil deGrasse Tyson video?) I’m also unaware of anything in my post that stated that “being wrong in your hypothesis [is] the same as being ‘unscientific’… Read more »
Expendable Henchman
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Expendable Henchman
2 years 9 months ago
Actively trying to ruin someone’s Christmas is the work of a reprobate. There is freedom of speech, and also freedom of being an arsehole. It’s also really, really stupid. People seeking to ruin Christmas deserve to be up against the wall with the Westboro Baptists. It’s just as vile, and yes, I’m an athiest. The poop stirrers think Christianity is immune to violence. They have no clue about European history. Or the religions of the IRA and the Ulsters. Athiests have a point in not wanting public funds to pay for Christmas celebrations, just like not using public funds to… Read more »
Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago
Some atheist groups (which doesn’t include all of us atheist “you guys”) put up billboards. So what? Churches and religious groups do it all the time. It’s called free speech. Dig it. So you were wrong, that’s what. You guys are proactively douchebagging. You were specifically telling us how amazing and special atheists are in their passivity, when you’re not. So strike one. “Religious beliefs aren’t like gender or skin color; they’re not inherent. They also change over a person’s lifetime.” So the heck what does have to do with anything? Was Newton religious? Yes or no? Yes, yes he… Read more »
DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago
Strike a nerve, did I? 🙂 I wasn’t wrong, dumbass. Did you SEE the “which doesn’t include all of us atheist ‘you guys'” part. If that makes me “proactively douchebagging,” then you’re a douche for Westboro protests of military funerals. Yes: EXACT SAME THING. Plus, the billboards I saw were in very good taste. You might want to check out the concept of “personal growth.” This might come as a shock to you, but some people’s beliefs change over time, sometimes completely. From all the evidence at hand, Newton was far less concerned with religion early in life when he… Read more »
Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago
Strike a nerve, did I? Oh, don’t be a loser. Let’s say you did strike a nerve, the one that says ‘man I hate morons’. Did I just make your day? I wasn’t wrong, dumbass. Did you SEE the “which doesn’t include all of us atheist ‘you guys’” part. If that makes me “proactively douchebagging,” then you’re a douche for Westboro protests of military funerals. Yes: EXACT SAME THING. Plus, the billboards I saw were in very good taste. Hey guess what, I’m including you when I say atheists. When you make a broad generalisation about ‘atheists never do that’… Read more »
DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago

[b]you need to be humiliated once in a while.[b/]

You have humiliated yourself far more than anything I could ever write in response. Meekness? I’d settle for basic civility.

Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago

“Honestly, I’m pretty ready to believe that you’re simply a troll, which is unfortunate because you’re making both yourself and atheists in general look like dumbasses.”

No, strike that, that’s unfair. It’s just you. But you would be terrible PR for them.

DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago
>> Oh, don’t be a loser. No worries. The crown remains yours. >> When you make a broad generalization [sic] about ‘atheists never do that’ then when atheist groups do it, you’re wrong. Maybe, if I’d said that at all. You’re hallucinating again. Take your meds. >> I’m not Westboro, whereas you are atheist, I’m not FFRF (or whoever put up the billboard), whereas you claim to be Christian. (Hold on… it’s hard to type and laugh at the same time…) >> I can even argue those guys are not Christian because they behave un-Christian-like, but you can’t argue that… Read more »
Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago
You have humiliated yourself far more than anything I could ever write in response. Meekness? I’d settle for basic civility. Funny, I don’t feel particularly embarrassed. Oh, right, I forgot, your imagination is magical, it doesn’t need to have anything to do with reality. That’s gonna be your excuse for leaving? I’m rude? That’s even more pathetic than ‘yu so evil’, not to mention it’s wildly hypocritical. While I called you an idiot, you denigrated my faith, and Christianity in general as well as my honesty, wasted my time with weird and crazy non-existent scenarios (demons in Galileos telescope, really?)… Read more »
Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago
>> Oh, don’t be a loser. No worries. The crown remains yours. That would make me a winner, genius. >> When you make a broad generalization [sic] about ‘atheists never do that’ then when atheist groups do it, you’re wrong. Maybe, if I’d said that at all. You’re hallucinating again. Take your meds. I quote: “Atheists really don’t care about Christmas, let alone hate it.” Boom. >> I’m not Westboro, whereas you are atheist, I’m not FFRF (or whoever put up the billboard), whereas you claim to be Christian. (Hold on… it’s hard to type and laugh at the same… Read more »
DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago
That would make me a winner, genius. >> Only on Planet Assface. Congratulations. I quote: “Atheists really don’t care about Christmas, let alone hate it.” Boom. >> Seriously? So you’re going to judge all by a single group? SO YOU ARE WESTBORO!!! So tell me, dickbreath, is your self-loathing because god DOES hate fags? So you’re not laughing? Does your life lack that Christmas spirit? >> Au contraire – you’re an endless supply of laughs. I’m surprised it took you so long to cobble together this lame reply. It must’ve taxed your abilities to no end, what with your impairments… Read more »
BobtheRegisterredFool
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BobtheRegisterredFool
2 years 9 months ago
Religion has a wider definition than that often imagined by those displeased with the aesthetics of Christanity. Historically and prehistorically, it has encompassed situations where a phenomena is observed, a theory behind it created, and said theory is used to attempt to modify the phenomena by wishing, prayer and so forth. There is reason to think religion describes a common feature of how humans process patterns, or is a component of human nature. (‘human nature’ describes emergent properties of the usual results of human self assembly, self wiring and self programming. If one must put well understood phenomena in terms… Read more »
samt
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samt
2 years 9 months ago
Presenting historical scientific progress as a christian vs. atheist issue is a bizarre argument. What about the ancient Egyptian, Greek, Hindu and Arabic scholars whose work underpins all of western science? Also, correlating evolution and atheism with nihilism is projecting. Disbelief in a supernatural higher power does not imply a person cannot find meaning in life or have a moral values. The fact that life on this planet has evolved has nothing to do with philosophical ‘meaning’ or ‘value’. Faith in the Christian God should not, and does not have anything to do with belief in scientific results. Faith deals… Read more »
Expendable Henchman
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Expendable Henchman
2 years 9 months ago

Alas, science is also now working in areas that can’t be proved and with unverifiable results.

Exhibit one: Anthropomorphic Global Warming

BobtheRegisterredFool
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BobtheRegisterredFool
2 years 9 months ago
I dunno about it being /necessarily/ a bizarre argument. Let’s ask some questions here, along the same lines as ‘Why didn’t the Song Dynasty have an industrial revolution?’ Why didn’t the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans (added because I am a fan, and they were decent engineers), Hindu or Arabs develop scientists the way they started to be developed in the nineteenth century? They were fairly sophisticated peoples, with very skilled artisans, and like all populations had some very intelligent and capable persons. (China also fits this description.) There’s a quote somewhere to the effect that ‘a science is any discipline where… Read more »
FLUFFY
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2 years 9 months ago

…I genuinely don’t give a shit about it. If somebody wishes me merry christmas and I’m not christian, I don’t think it’s hate speech. I just think something like “oh, hey, they wanted to wish me well, or to have a good time around now. That’s nice of them!”

C.S. Gilmore
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C.S. Gilmore
2 years 9 months ago
Well I skipped some of the last few rants on both sides of this argument. Might I suggest that you two just agree to disagree. Also might I recommend a few books to add to your lists as companions to the bible and all that other stuff. mainly the Book of Mormon as it clarifies a lot of doctrines and vague things mentioned in the bible, I also recommend the Doctrine and Covenants for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Yes they are religios works and I believe them to be true as well as that the Bible… Read more »
DJStuCrew
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DJStuCrew
2 years 9 months ago

By your simple statement that “I possibly could also argue that religion could be viewed as another branch of science” tells me that you don’t understand science at all. (Unless, of course, you meant philosophy, which I could agree with you on.) No offense, but I view Mormonism as a cult, and one of the weirder ones at that. But if it works for you, then worship on, my friend! The happiest of holidays to you and yours.

Mudz
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Mudz
2 years 9 months ago

I wouldn’t worry about it, the rants weren’t actually for anyone else.

I’m a scientist, Mr. Gilmore. When I invent a rhetorical device, I want to make sure that’s it’s workin’.

C.S. Gilmore
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C.S. Gilmore
2 years 9 months ago
O and in case you are wondering from my above statement I am a faithful member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, though many know us as Mormons, and yes we do believe Jesus Christ to be our Savior and Redeemer. The depression problems mentioned by some as I have seen them in religiose sorts I think tends to come from a misunderstanding of the atonement and God’s love. Though there are so many people out there of varying beliefs and ideas that I hope you all understand that my statements are not ment to reffer to… Read more »
C.S. Gilmore
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C.S. Gilmore
2 years 9 months ago
I see your point on the science thing DJStuCrew though I still hold that at least with my religion I can approuch learning of its truthfulness in a scientific manner. Having seen the things I’ve seen I cannot deny what I know to be true, though they are of a nature that I cannot provide physical evidence to others for them but rather give the invitation to try the experiment themselves and find out for themselves. I also suppose your statement as to religion falling under philosophy instead of science would depend on your definition of science and philosophy which… Read more »
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