UN Treaty on Small Arms wants to take all your guns

EDIT 2: Okay, I just heard from one of my gun industry contacts (i.e. my buddy that makes awesome guns for aliving :) ) that this is still on the table and legit. Here is a brand new news link:

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/07/09/nra-takes-aim-at-weapons-treaty

EDIT: D’oh!  I’m a freaking idiot. This was sent to me this morning and I skimmed it. I didn’t realize that it was from June 2011, not June 2012.  I’m leaving this up as evidence of my dumbness.  :)

And before you go thinking that this is all just a bunch of hyperbole, here it is from Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2011/06/07/u-n-agreement-should-have-all-gun-owners-up-in-arms/

So for last week’s Concern Troll that was telling us how silly sounded saying that Obama was anti-gun because there was zero evidence… Uh huh…

I’m swamped right now so don’t have time to comment much, but this treaty is bad news, and don’t underestimate the stupidity of our Senate.

41 Responses

  1. What does it take for the Senate to ratifiy the treaty? More than 51 I hope.

  2. Senate ratification of a treaty takes a 2/3 yes vote.

  3. The followers of the Great and Powerful Obama have proven again and again to be willing to put on blinders to tow the Party’s bottom line. Get ready to hear the phrase, “Well, this doesn’t really violate the spirit of the second amendment, and it doesn’t really mean Obama is anti-gun.” repeated often.

  4. It requires a 2/3s vote of the Senators to ratify the treaty.

    The BAD news is that this is a 2/3s vote of the Senators PRESENT.

    So if Harry Reid can pull together a small band of gun grabbing Senators in the middle of the night, and deem themselves a “quorum” then he can actually ratify the treaty with a very small number of votes – like 34. This has been done at least once.

    • Quorum is 51 Senators. It’s generally assumed the Senate has a quorum, but all it takes is one Senator to ask for confirmation and they have to go through the entire roll. Reid would need to bring his entire caucus and get 35 votes, assuming the GOP took pains to ensure there was always a Senator in the chamber to challenge the quorum. Of course, during the quorum call other GOP Senators would have time to arrive, raising the number Reid would have to get. Most Dem Senators aren’t going to vote for it anyhow, it would be political suicide. Reid could probably count on the CA, NY and the rest of New England, and maybe IL delegations. If it did come up for a vote it would almost certainly result in places like Montana voting against the Dem, just to deny Reid the Majority.

      • I hope you are right. But I wouldn’t put anything past Harry Reid and his kleptocrat friends. They could figure its time to pull out all the stops.

  5. That article is 13 months old.

    • God dammit! I should’ve noticed that!

    • Yep. The “I fear black helicopters” crowd keeps necroing old stuff like this in their email screeds.

      Gotta watch out for it.

      • from the article: “In January 2010 the U.S. joined 152 other countries in endorsing a U.N. Arms Treaty Resolution that will establish a 2012 conference to draft a blueprint for enactment. ”
        The conference is scheduled for this month…

      • I was referring to the 2010 article, which I have seen humped repeatedly ib screeds … which is probably why it floated to the top of Larry’s internet searching.

        Yes, the latest effort is dangerous, and that tard Obama will probably sign it if they finish it before 2013.

      • I’m much the same as you seem, Kristopher. I too receive a ton of emails that all require careful analysis and confirmation before believing. This one will likely go nowhere but still- its good to let people be aware of it. Now we know- and knowing is half the battle… :)

  6. Let me preface with that I’m a gun owner and I’m not a troll and as a gun owner this treaty concerns me but also leaves me with questions. So please take these questions purely as what they are, me seeking additional insight. Question #1: Doesn’t the Supreme Court’s decision in 1957 in Reid v. Covert make it clear that the Constitution trumpet all treaties? Question #2: I thought this treaty only regulates arms trade, am I wrong if so could someone please clarify? Larry, thanks again for your blog. I may not always see eye to eye with you on politics but I truly enjoy reading your thoughts and considering your perspective.

    • Bob: The treaty provision article allows treaties that trump the existing articles in the constitution … but that same article cannot trump an amendment, like the 2nd or the 14th.

  7. Even if it was ratified, it would only apply to im,ports and exports immediately.

    Anything else would cause a massive court fight, since amendments like the Second trump existing Articles like the senate treaty provision.

    That being said, the best course is to punish Senators for even trying to bring this to a vote … which has worked since this abortion was signed by Obambam in 2011.

  8. I think it’s telling that IRAN was elected to be on the governing body that will hammer out the treaty, and that as far as I can tell, the US is still involving itself in the talks.

  9. Senators have to see this as a serious trap for them. Even if Reid managed to get it through with a tiny quorum, he and all present would be punished mercilessly at the polls and in their campaign chests.

    But I put nothing past Obama. Look how soundly they were smacked after they pushed through the unpopular healthcare bill and they still play games of that sort. They don’t learn. They just hope to wear us all down so we take whatever crap they give us.

    This should be made to be a huge election loser for Obama and his Democrats. Seriously, who in the world could think this is a good idea?

    • I haven’t seen Obama and company really come up with any election winners lately. It’s not like they’ve done much that most of the American people support over the last 3 years.

      The ‘gutsy call’ to take out Bin Laden? Health care in all its corrupted glory? Failed green energy invesments? Fast and the Furious? Not sure which part of any of those is going to inspire voters to pull the lever for Obama.

      • And yet, the poll results seem to be pretty nearly 50-50 split between Obama and Romney. All the usual pundits are talking about how this election is too close to call right now.

      • Sadly the commenter before me has the right of it Adam. Unfortunately People are stupid. I can tell you even with the mess the country is in now my lone pair of life long screamin lefty friends are going to vote for Obummer come November. Just like those of us center and right can prove by 20+years of example that the media is nothing more than a propaganda arm for the Dems. They believe that anything that comes from Fox is a bald faced lie…despite being proven wrong on that score so many times I’ve lost count. So we don’t discuss politics anymore. The wife blocks all my political fb posts so she doesn’t have to read me trying to hammer home blindingly obviously points to the willfully and terminally brain dead. Same women was shocked when I told her I don’t do the same thing to hers. *headdesk*

      • 56% of the adults polled think the country is headed in the wrong direction. Unless something drastically changes for the better Obama is toast. I’ll be surprised if he clears 45%.

        The polls will show it close right to the bitter end. The liberals in the media don’t want to discourage their compatriots. The headline number in a poll is trivially easy to manipulate to achieve a desired result. The key is to ignore the headline number and look at things like party splits.

      • What I have come to realize is that every poll about Obama is a reflection on how his campaign is faring in its ongoing battle to discredit and unseat the Bush administration.

        For the moment, the best that can be said for Romney’s campaign is that he’s targeting a regime that actually exists to run against. That makes for no real gaffes or “LOL conservatives ar carzy” fuel, but it doesn’t make for much of anything else, either.

        Granted, Obama’s biggest strength seems to be painting someone as an enemy and giving carefully choreographed speeches about how it’s us versus them, and he’s in your corner but he needs your help to make those evil bad guys pay because You Deserve Everything and They Are Keeping It All From You. So perhaps there’s some wisdom in Romney keeping a low profile; it starves the Obama Villain Generator of precious fuel. It also lets Obama continue to show himself to be a fool, which is helpful.

        Even so, it’s Romney’s campaign, so he has to say something substantive at some point. Running on a campaign of “Vote for me because I’m not THAT guy!” was a poor platform for Gore, it remained a bad idea for Kerry, and the only reason it worked for Obama was because he was running against McCain.

        Besides, we’ve had three and a half years of Obama goofs of all kinds; surely there’s enough campaign fuel there by now.

  10. If laws like this pass it would seem like a good reason to become a smith, or at least apprentice to one.
    Take my guns? fine I’ll learn how to make them myself.

    • Learn to be a machinist. Gunsmiths often only put parts together correctly, machinists make those parts. Hey! Maybe you could get the gubermint to pay for your training.

      • Well I am going to learn machining, I already know some machining in fact. I’m a double major in Physics and Mechanical Engineering. I chose the combination because while I love the math and theory of it all; I love the hands on satisfaction of making my creations come to life. As far as government money? Hell no I won’t touch a dime of government money. It’s taking me 2x as long to go through college, but I’m doing it cash and carry. No loans no financial aid. When I get that paper that says I’m a Double Baccalaureate it will be 100% mine. Not only will I be able to write my own ticket I will know that I did it with nothing more than my brains, determination, and the love and encouragement of my family. I won’t be indebted to a bank or worse the government.

      • Just thought it would be ironic to become a machinist using money from the government in order to make guns.

      • I can see how that would be ironic. I can even see my life being so much easier if I just put my hand out. I can’t bring myself to do it. It’s not the way I was raised. I could go into a long story, but this isn’t the time or place.
        I would get a laugh out of it though if a really great gunsmith took advantage of the system.
        I just can’t do that though, it’s not in me to do so.

  11. One of the serious issues regarding a “UNTreaty” is that IF it does by some chance (& hillary & her ilk have been pushing for it for a long time) it does end up getting ratified – by a dingy harry trick or whatever; they (the gun grabbers) will do whatever they want. They will claim they have a ‘mandate’ or some such and while we are trying to litigate to prevent their illegal actions, they WILL do whatever they want. We might ultimately prevail in OUR courts – but as the citizens around Nawlins found out post Katrina – while they ultimately won their case, their firearms had by and large been rendered useless via rust etc.
    Stop Ratification From Happening – and as several have mentioned give anyone who supports it the boot come NOvember.

  12. I’ll just quote a famous NRA advocate…
    “From my cold…dead…hands.”

    Nuff said.

  13. Even if The One can’t get stuff like this to fly with the senate, the supreme court ruling allowing Him to tax/penalize (which was it again? Seems like every time I turn around, the administration is changing what they think it is) behavior He doesn’t approve of leaves me little doubt we’ll be seeing ammo taxes or fines for ‘excessive’ firearms ownership pushed at some point, should November swing His way, under the same aegis as Obamatax.

  14. http://thegunmag.com has been covering it for awhile, and SAF (and the new international group, IAPCAR) have been working to detoxify this for a couple of years.

  15. It doesn’t matter if the Senate confirms this or not (they won’t, BTW: only the Dems from ‘safe states’ (CA, MA, NY, et cetera) could vote for this and keep their seats, and they know this) . Obama wil just start enforcing its provisions via bueraucratic fiat, same as how he’s essentially imposed Amnesty and Open Borders. Anybody wanna bet aginst me?

  16. I would love to see an amendment that enabled the government to back out of any treaty when any part of it is deemed unconstitutional.
    And a review of all new treaties every fifty years. Think of all the work the politicians will have. :)

    And it wouldn’t matter if something like this passed.
    I don’t think it will ever happen though.

    (I wrote a short blog on what I would like to see in a new amendment. Sadly taxes did not make the cut.)

  17. It must be remembered that the United Nations is an assemblage of governments. i.e: Heads of State and persons of highest socio-economic status within their respective countries.

    1. How many governments therein represented, would be in power today if they had not substantially abrogated their citizens’ individual right to arms?

    2. The individual citizen of a country which is dominated by a multi-national corporation, is in a position closely analogous to that of a straight boy in a boarding school (his country) wherein the biggest bully in the student body (his country’s government) is the headmaster’s (the multi-national in question) favorite catamite. Bullies prefer disarmed victims.

  18. Even more reasons to get a CNC and metal break.

    Oh, and Larry, I don’t think it is possible to underestimate politicians. They always managed to get stupider…they are an argument against evolution

  19. molon labe

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