Flea Party vs. Tea Party

Occupy Wall Street? Try occupying reality first.

I know that I’ve pointed out how biased the media narrative is in this country, but I want you to think about something for a minute.

The Tea Party has held hundreds of events all over the country. They are usually over in a single day, because the vast majority of the participants have jobs and have to go back to work. They clean up after themselves. Despite the media ready to blame every violent loon that crops up on the Tea Party, they’ve not hurt anyone or damaged any property. I’m not aware of anyone being arrested at a Tea Party event. (I’m pretty sure the media would be excited to let us know). Their platform is pretty simple, the government has strayed from its Constitutional roots, is too big, wasteful, and takes too much of our money.

They have been very effective in getting candidates with similar beliefs elected in the last cycle, and those are the folks that are currently blocking more big government bailout/stimulus nonsense. (keep this in mind, because we’ll be back to this point later).  They’ve been against growing the already bloated government, whether is Republican bloat or Democrat bloat (usually Democrats though, because they tend to bloat faster).

Bloat is a fun word. Say it with me. Bloat.

The Tea Party has been relatively successful in shaking up the establishment politics. As a result, the narrative about the Tea Party is that they are religious fanatics, racist zealots, tea-baggers, ready to snap and start burning crosses and lynching people at a moment’s notice. The narrative has been repeated time and time again, so effectively that whenever you talk to someone who gets all their news from the regular sources, you can hear all about just how crazy all of these racist tea-baggers are. Hell, go read Facebook for ten minutes to learn all about just what a horrible bunch of crazy anarchist racists all those crazy tea-baggers are.

I’ll wait…

Okay, so now that you’ve read a bunch of stuff about how evil/crazy/stupid/brainwashed the Tea Party is, but without anything specific cited, (because obviously, if you are against ridiculous government spending, you’re racist), we can continue.  You probably also noticed that whenever anyone tried to argue any points, someone would bring up “But Bush did it toooooo!” Uh huh… And how popular do you think Bush is with most of the Tea Party folks? (more popular than Obama, but that isn’t saying a whole lot).

In the last month we’ve all seen Occupy Wall Street on the news. Lots of people got together to protest something. All we could really tell was that they were angry about “stuff.” They’ve occupied our cities for weeks now. Last I heard about fourteen hundred people have been arrested for various crimes ranging from destruction of property, drug related offenses, all the way up to assault.

In some of the cities, they’ve made a huge, nasty, stinky mess. And this isn’t a right wing smear, talk to anybody you know that lives in New York about what the sanitation is like there right now. Thousands of people that haven’t showered for days, peeing in the gutters can get a little gross.  (hence, flea party) Locally, ours have been pretty clean. For us we basically have a slightly higher number of homeless people hanging out in Pioneer Park than usual.  

Sure, we are all enjoying the pictures of protestors having sex in the streets and pooping on police cars, but less entertaining are the protestor’s quotes about killing the rich and taking their stuff, through violent revolution, and that sort of unpleasantness. They’ve got the Communists on their side too, and we all know what a peaceful bunch they are, and things that they are involved with never turns out bad. Sure, there was that whole industrial murder society thing they had going on for most of the last century, but whatever…

The Occupy folks are mostly white too, though I’ve not heard that bandied around as proof of de facto racism like it is for the Tea Party.

So Tea Party, doesn’t advocate violence, doesn’t make a mess, is polite, has a simple platform, and then goes back to work the next day = RACIST EXTREMIST VIOLENT NAZI WHACKJOBS!!!

Occupy Wall Street has thousands arrested, makes a mess, wants to guillotine rich folks, has a platform that reads like a less literate version of the Communist Manifesto, and camps out for weeks because they’ve not got anything better to do = REFRESHING VOICE FOR CHANGE.

Sure, nasty disease ridden hippie orgies are fun and all, but let’s take a look at what they’re protesting… For the first few weeks I thought it was that they were against “Greed”.  Wow.  That’s a bold statement. Take that Pro-Greed forces. Okay, specifically, they were against the bailouts. Cool. So was I. Funny, so was the Tea Party. You know what’s ironic though? You know who WASN’T against the bailouts? The guy I’m willing to bet most of the Occupiers voted for last time and will probably vote for again.

So the Tea Party and the Occupiers agree that government bailing out big corporations is bad. The difference between these two protestor groups (besides personal hygiene, coherence, the amount of taxes they’ve paid, and the ability to pass a drug screening) is their answer. The Tea Party wants to make the government smaller so they can’t do stuff like this. The Occupiers want to reward the guilty party and make it bigger and more powerful, because… Hell… I can’t figure it out.

The Tea Party answer goes back to Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin. The Occupier’s answer reads like a bunch of Communist dogma, after its been eaten, digested, and then shat out by a unicorn tripping on hallucinogenic mushrooms.

Don’t take my word for it though. Let’s go through their platform that their National Press Director and Fetcher of Sandwiches, released via CNN.

“Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending “Freetrade” by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Blah, blah, blah, oh yeah, and minimum wage should be $20.  I’m surprised he didn’t just say that the minimum wage should be a billion dollars an hour. Why not? It is going to have to come from the same magic unicorn. Duh, you friggin’ idiot. Every time they raise minimum wage employers have to lay people off. Let’s say I’m a small business owner. I have ten minimum wage employees. Since most employers aren’t the fat cats you imbeciles want to guillotine, and I can’t afford to pay $20 an hour to the kid that sweeps the floor, I have to fire half of my employees.

But don’t worry. These braniacs answer this conundrum with Demand 3 and 9.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Stupid. To condense down thousands of words worth of arguments from when we went through this nonsense last year, the private sector, though flawed, has brought us the most prosperous/healthy time in human history, while everything the government touches turns to crap, and many of the problems with the current system can be traced back to government regulation. So let’s give them full control of our health. What could possibly go wrong?

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Oh good. I was wondering how all of my now unemployed former-employees caused by Demand 1 were going to be able to live…

Hey, wait a second… So your plan is that people can just get $20 an hour even if they don’t feel like working? BRILLIANT! Why hasn’t anyone ever thought of this before? Oh, they have thought of it, but they were smart enough not to mention it in polite company, because it is retarded.

They’ve tried this. It is called Greece. You should move there. Wait, Germany called. They’re tired of footing the bill.  Strange… Germany is a lot like your parents in that respect.


Demand four: Free college education.

There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Somebody has to pay for all of those useless liberal academics with tenure.

Besides, why do I need a college education when I can just stay home and collect $20 an hour to play xBox?

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that a higher percentage of liberals went to college to “broaden their minds” or have “life experiences” (i.e. smoke pot and hook up with loose freshmen) whereas us right wingers went to college to get a piece of paper that enabled us to get a higher paying job. Maybe that’s why we’re not so bitter about college now that we have jobs.


Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

“We’re against corporate greed and bailouts! Boo! Corporate greed! Quick, give another $560,000,000.00 to Solyndra!”

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Do you even understand how many zeroes that number has on it?


Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America’s nuclear power plants.

Apparently not…

On Demand 6 & 7, what the freak? Seriously? Do you have any idea where money comes from or how the government gets it? Apparently your bachelors in Gender Studies didn’t require Econ 101. You can’t just pull numbers out of your ass and have the money fairy give it to you. These rich guys you’re protesting don’t have that kind of money, and even once you feed them to Rosanne Barr or the guillotine or however you want to execute them and take their stuff, they don’t have that money either.


Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Because why the hell not? I’m surprised they didn’t throw reparations on there while they were at it.

And what would this amendment say or do that isn’t already a law? Seriously? Especially in light of the rest of your platform, how can we possibly discriminate between the couch potatoes collecting $20 an hour doing nothing? Are the female/ethnic couch potatoes forced to do nothing harder?


Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Because when our government gives everybody that lives here free money to do nothing, all of those retired thirty year olds from Greece will need somewhere to live.

But I can’t comment, because I’m in favor of controlled borders and a legal guest worker program, I’m obviously a racist… Only liberals can be in favor of a gigantic pseudo-slave class of poor people with no rights or protections that can be victimized by criminals and unscrupulous employers, and then pat themselves on the back about how enlightened they are.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Okay? I was waiting for them to tack on “and free pony rides for everybody!!!11” at the end, but this one sounds sane.


Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the “Books.” World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the “Books.” And I don’t mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Oh good, Demand 11 had gotten me thinking that these guys weren’t complete nutters.

Basically Demand 11 could be restated as We Want To Destroy the World Financial System WHEEEE! and it would accomplish the same thing. I also like how they use terms like margin call debt, derivatives, and credit default swaps to sound all smart-o-pated, and then put “books” in parenthesis, like “accounting” is “voodoo”.

Debt… It means that someone owes something to someone else. Dumb people are in debt. Smart people have people in debt to them. I have tried to make good financial decisions during my life. Some of these decisions have been difficult or painful. As a result, the only debt I have is the mortgage on my mini-mansion in the mountains under a ski resort. And I’ve paid off 1/3 of that in the last year. All I had to do was work really hard and not be stupid. That’s what happens when you aren’t a complete dumbass with your money.

On student loans, most of us that are paying taxes now got our degrees in things like business, engineering, science, etc. Whereas the Occupiers got their degrees in Gender Studies and Liberal Arts. Man, if I’d gone 100k into debt for a useless degree like that I’d be upset too.  Though, how about instead of being mad at us people that worked hard, made good decisions, and now make enough money to be “rich”, you get mad at the lousy liberal academic establishment that lied to you and wasted your time and money instead?  

No mortgages, no credit card debt, no personal loans… Yeah, because I’d hate for you to be stressed out as you’re loafing around, pooping on police cars at $20 an hour. Here’s your free house, mother****er.  


Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Yes. Because that 489 of yours is very damaging to your self esteem. Credit reporting is biased! It can’t possibly have anything to do with the fact you were too stoned to pay your bills on time and spent all your rent money on pizza.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union”

Oh good, finally some obligatory union nonsense. Because why not throw a bone to the thing that has helped make it so that our country isn’t competitive anymore?

That was certainly an enlightening list of demands.  Let me see if I can sum this up: Despite being apathetic, lazy, or making bad choices, we want free shit.

I was annoyed and amused by these people before, but after reading their childish, unrealistic, petulant demands, now I really can’t stand them.  

What do we have here? A political movement based on nebulous anger, wishful thinking, utopian goals, fueled by societal malcontents, in bed with Communists and the unions… Yeah, we haven’t seen that before ever in the history of the world. One year you’re getting promised all sorts of awesome free stuff as soon as you kill these awful (fat cats/bankers/Tsars/royalists/Jews) and take their stuff, and once the government redistributes it fairly, then everybody can be equal and worry free. And the next year, you are either in a mass grave, digging one, or helping put undesirables in it.

Save your sanctimony. Communism is communism. Regardless of what pretty ribbons you tie on it, Communism is the greatest evil ever achieved by man. I don’t care what your issues are or how noble your goals may be, the second your solution is Communism, then you are a fool and your argument is garbage.   

Useful idiots, the lot of them.

Now Nancy Pelosi is backing the protests, Barack Obama is happy there’s a distraction from his Mexican-killing, green-jobs-money-laundering, scandal-ridden administration, and the Occupiers are seeking to reward the people that screwed them over to begin with. Now we can go back to our regularly scheduled narrative about how my side are the crazy ones with their crazy ideas like limited government, checks and balances, and following the Constitution.

 

165 Responses

  1. “Let’s say I’m a small business owner. I have ten minimum wage employees. Since most employers aren’t the fat cats you imbeciles want to guillotine, and I can’t afford to pay $20 an hour to the kid that sweeps the floor, I have to fire half of my employees.”

    No you don’t, you big meanie! You can sell your house and sleep on the couch in your office!

    • Besides, when YOU get YOUR guaranteed basic living minimum wage for life and YOUR free house, you won’t HAVE to make a profit! Heck, you won’t even have to keep your business open!

    • The list of demands is NOT from OccupyWallSt.

      Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.

      From:

      http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

      • Interesting. This is up on their website, though. They haven’t taken it down. If it’s not something they want associated with them, why leave it up. If you found a racists rant on a Tea Party site, with a little line saying “we don’t agree with this” on it, what would think?

        When racists show up at Tea Party events, we surround them, and we start stepping closer and closer, making them back up, until they’re outside the event. And we make sure they don’t come back, all the while telling them and everybody else “This person doesn’t belong here. He / She is saying things nobody here believes” etc. We sure as hell don’t let them put their signs up on the stage, with a little sign next to it that says, “not necessarily the opinion of everybody here”!!!!!!

        If they don’t want to be associated with the text, then don’t leave it on the website! Pretty easy. Leaving it there means they aren’t bothered enough by what it says to dump it.

      • Shorter version: “It got embarassing, so we’re disavowing it…”

      • Lin W and DaveP

        I cant reply to your posts for some reason.

        I think its interesting Larry just created a post about a troll on his blog that covers some of your straw man arguments. The administrators are not responsible for every post, if it stays up does not mean they agree with the post. I am sure there are some posts on Larry’s blog that he disagrees (mine maybe) with but he leaves them up as long as they are respectful. It does not mean he endorses their contents.

        The administrators on this forum are not the leaders of the organization. They should not be deleting ANY post where a user simply voices their thoughts/ wishes and does so in a respectable manner.

        A forum where any dissenting post or comment is removed seems like a place devoid of learning, for anyone.

        Do I think some in OWS are terribly misinformed, absolutely. But some are young kids who have grown up with only information presented by a terrible media. High School with terrible curriculum/ books that teach revisionist history. College with many tenured liberal professors drilling the dogma into their head. And a government that lies to them at almost every step.

        But they are young, and I would prefer some of us who are either older and hopefully wiser or just those of us who are wiser teach them vs simply ridicule them and fall for the same tricks the main stream media played on the Tea Party

        If you think everything will be fine as long as Cain, Romney or Perry gets elected then you probably don’t have anything in common with OWS. But if you think the Government is owned by Bankers, If you think Wall St and the Government are in collusion. If you think the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional or just needs to go away. If you think our troops need to be brought home from these hellholes and let the citizens of the country fight over their course (like we did). Or campaign finance reform should be passed now. Or any number of other reasons then welcome to OWS. You don’t have to agree with everything they say to support them. I certainly don’t, but I don’t agree with everything the Tea Party does either and I support them. I believe OWS and the Tea Party should join and fight our corrupt system first.

      • I never asked for anything to be deleted. I just said someone was a troll and I wasn’t going to deal with it any more. Posting propaganda pieces and claiming that they’re “facts” is repulsive. That’s my personal opinion. Show me where I asked to have it removed, or told anybody else not to interact?

      • Also, you think OWS and TEA Party should “join and fight our corrupt system.” I remember some talking head saying the same thing to the Libertarian Party Presidential candidate, and the Green Party Presidential candidate (who happened to have appeared at the same forum). The fact that they had diametrically opposite goals seems never to have soaked into the reporter’s brain.

        OWS wants Big Government to get *bigger* to “fix” the economy. Tea Party people want Big Government to get *smaller* and “get out of the way” of the economy. There is no common view.

        All you have to do is look at how each group handles its demonstrations, and you’ll see that there is no common ground. One is polite, follows rules, pays for their own porta-johns and pays to have them removed, leaves when the permit says to, and takes all garbage and trash from the area, while there are not confrontations and no arrests.

        The other has no permits, demands that their illegal activities be supported by infrastructure supplied by the tax payers (porta johns, etc), leaves trash and human excrement all over, is *deliberately* confrontational, and won’t even leave when asked to for a few hours so their pig sty can be cleaned *for* them.

        IOW, one group are adults speaking adult language, attempting to have an adult conversation. They, however, are branded “dangerous” and “reactionary.” The other group is a bunch of spoiled, superannuated pre-schoolers having a food fight and a collective temper tantrum. They are branded “uplifting” and “peaceful”. It sickens me.

      • “Show me where I asked to have it removed”

        “This is up on their website, though. They haven’t taken it down. If it’s not something they want associated with them, why leave it up”

        That sounds like you are saying if a comment remains on a forum its proof the forum supports the comment, or delete it

        Saying “OWS wants Big Government to get *bigger* to “fix” the economy. ” is preposterous and shows a lack of insight into what the movement is. Its made up of people who are simply upset with Government and Bankers who own our Government. The solutions they have are as varied as the members in the movement.

        Sure there are videos of some ignorant person at an OWA rally saying bigger government, or re-elect Obama, or some other ridiculous thing. But they are NOT the majority. There are people at Tea Party rally’s with racist signs, the MSM says all Tea Party people are racists so it mush be true, right?

        http://cdn-ugc.cafemom.com/gen/constrain/500/500/85/2010/07/12/21/di/27/po41kf39c0vzby.png?imageId=19228094

        Watch the OWS feed for an hour and read the signs. Approach the subject with an open mind. If you don’t like what they stand for, how they go about it or any other fact. Fine, don’t support them. But at least make the decision based on facts, not what someone on CNN told you to think.

        I think Bankers are more dangerous to this county then a kid who got himself neck deep in student loans, cant find a job and is protesting out in the park while pissing in the streets. As long as that kid agrees with me that the Fed needs to go and the symbiotic bond between Wall St and the Government is bad, I would support him. We can argue about the other stuff after the fed is gone.

        If I don’t support him I will never defeat the real enemy to our Republic

        The Tea Party alone is NEVER going to end the Fed or get real campaign finance reform much less put a plan in place to stop this country from imploding due to debt.

      • Steve. There is a world of difference between a website purporting to belong to a group (OWS) and a *blog* site where people discuss things. Your failure to realize this, perhaps, is why you are so confused.

        Yes, I’ve looked at pictures, watched web feeds. I suggst you look at this and the previous 3 parts he’s posted. He’s been at Occupy Los Angeles since day one. http://www.ringospictures.com/index.php?page=20111003 Then you can tell me how much these people have in common with the Tea Party.

      • Keep spinning, Steve. All I have to do to give you the lie is to look at the HUNDREDS of photos of signs, placards, et cetera at “Occupy” events across the country calling for exactly what was on that ‘demands’ list. Zombie has a few dozen, but she’s not the only one.
        Almost like they were reading off of the same page, or chanting the same slogans, or something…

      • “Steve. There is a world of difference between a website purporting to belong to a group (OWS) and a *blog* site where people discuss things. Your failure to realize this, perhaps, is why you are so confused.”

        I am sorry, but you are the one who still does not understand OWS. They are a collection of people, not a Party with set requirements and beliefs. The forum you mention is not an official OWA forum moderated by the ruling class, because there is none. It IS a site where people discuss things, just like you said. Feel free to drop in an educate some people in a manner you might use with with your Son/ Daughter or Nephew. Some will not be swayed, others maybe if you give them facts.

        The LA pictures …. This one is hard because I see a few posters I agree with (End the Fed, Ron Paul) but many are the opposite of what I believe and some are downright disgusting. But this is LA / CA, I don’t have much in common with them on anything. I have not looked at the LA movement at all, but if that is typical of the organization there, then its not at all like the Wall St

        I have to run to dinner but here is an articel from a Tea Party that echos my thoughts

        http://www.fedupusa.org/2011/10/an-open-letter-from-fedupusa-to-occupy-wall-street-protestors-all-over-the-country/

        Have a nice night Lin W

      • Paul

        Not sure if I am being trolled here, if you are not bothering to read the replies or if you have a learning disability.

        You ARE going to see ridiculous signs at a OWS rally, maybe hundreds.

        You are also going to see ridiculous signs at any large rally. Do you want me to link a few more ridiculous signs from actual Tea Party Rally’s? Should we dismiss the Tea Party because of a few signs or should we look deeper?

        Been awhile since I read the constitution but I don’t think there is anything you can do to stop a anarchist who shows up to your rally with a ridiculous sign. So he gets his picture taken and now Paul hates the rally

        Some sites claim OWS affiliates have staged rally’s in 951 cities in 78 countries. One march in New York was guesstimated to have around 10,000 people and this has been going on since Sept 17th. So a rally has been going on EVERY day for 30 days, in more than 78 countries and 900 cities and can have crowds near the 10 thousand mark. And you think anyone who understands whats going on cares about a few HUNDRED signs?

        The OWS rally’s ARE being infiltrated by undesirables (just like the Tea Party was) such as Unions, Democrats and Soros. They see this as an opportunity to harness the movement for their own goals. They are going to have signs up that speak to what they want. But its what THEY want, not what OWS wants. Will OWS survive the take-over, will they be around when winter settles in, maybe not.

        If you want to ridicule a group for what a certain % of its followers say and see the glass as half empty then of course you are welcome to. I simply chose to have faith in the idea and people, more of a glass half full kinda guy.

        You might be right long term, but I am right, right now.

  2. “No mortgages, no credit card debt, no personal loans…”

    No savings accounts, which are loans to banks.

    No bonds — loans to companies and government.

    Basically, 90+% of the world’s wealth wiped out.

  3. WOOOT!!! Yay! ::Stands on a chair and claps and whistles:: Oh, for the occupiers: ::Crouches down and does “up twinkles”:: ::spit::

    Larry, this is excellent. I applaud you, loud and long. I mentioned on fb that I’d been to a Tea Party event, and asked someone “let’s find out what we have in common” — and another person called me a “goat f*cker” (*without* the asterisk), twice, in two different posts. I never got an answer, either. I blocked the person whose fb page it was (at least fb will let us do that). That’s the level of “intelligence” we’re dealing with. Whatever they may have learned at that expensive college is going up in pot smoke, anyway, and by time the camps break up, we’ll have to support these people who, literally, smoked their brains out. ::sigh::

    Meanwhile, again, I salute you.

  4. Dude. This could be better summed up as ANARCHY! And who do you think will survive the chaos? It’s almost like they’re proposing their own stupidity eradication plan.

    Anyway, I’m glad you decided to write a response to the demands of these nutjobs. I’ve been dismissing them for the last few weeks. I had no idea how looney they were.

    • Um, no. These people are advocating more government. Anarchists advocate less. None, in fact.

      -Your friendly neighborhood anarchist

      • Look at their demands. They might be advocating MORE government but when you thrown in all the financial “reform” they’re demanding you get anarchy.

        -Your less-friendly neighborhood anarchist

      • EXACTLY! Anarchists for bigger government! (OK, everybody, Inigo Montoya, “I do not think that word means what [they] think it means” ::giggle:: )

      • I didn’t say it made sense.

      • No, you get chaos, which is not a synonym for anarchy, no matter how often the MSM repeats the word as though it is.

    • What I find even more amusing is that they think they’re going to ‘survive’ this change they’re trying to bring about. They really have no clue. If this ends the way they want they’ll be a pile of rotting corpses before we get even half way through it. Unfortunately the Darwin Award committee seems to be glacially slow in handing out the awards to these most deserving candidates. *headshake*

  5. Can we start a grass roots campaign of Larry Correia for president? It’d be nice to have someone who actually understand numbers and finances in the job… for a little while.

    I’m also pretty sure afterwards Larry would run screaming back to his Mini-Manse in the mountains.

    And I’m ok with that too. Larry for Pres! ;)

  6. The Pelosi is well and good but even Al qaida AND the Iranian Mullahs have expressed their support. Barak: bringing people together since 2008.

    What could possibly go wrong?

  7. Come on, these guys are some of our best PR! Look at the mess they leave in their wake… just as their counterparts 40 years ago helped to undo LBJ. We should be ENCOURAGING them, driving them even more Over The Top Loony with Operation Chaos-style infiltrators…

    *insert Emperor Palpatine evil maniacal cackle here*

    • Oh, and let’s call ‘em the Pee Party, like over at RedState, because they seem to have an incontinence problem with how they urinate all over everything. Too bad we can’t get the Westboro Baptist Lawyers’ Cult to join ‘em…

      • I prefer the term “Occupussies”

      • Its sad to see people who I assume backed the Tea Party falling for the same tricks that were used to marginalize, co-opt and discredit the Tea Party.

        OWS is not the darling of Main Stream Media and more than the Tea Party was.

        Show a Racist sign at a Tea Party Rally to a Liberal and the entire Tea Party are racists. No need to dig any further to see what the Tea Party is about

        http://cdn-ugc.cafemom.com/gen/constrain/500/500/85/2010/07/12/21/di/27/po41kf39c0vzby.png?imageId=19228094

        Go to Tea Party rally’s and interview lots of people. You are going to find some people who are either stupid or just ignorant

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPEAXatvxvI&feature=related

        Have one (or all) trusted sources for news run a clip showing how stupid the Tea Party is. Now you have been told what to think of the Tea Party so you can talk to your friends and tell them what you know about the Tea Party.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIEgb5Iusgk

        Oh, that is not what the Tea Party is really about? LOTS of people identified with the Tea Party, of course there were going to be some wackos, people who can not articulate what they want. And some who are not sure what they want, they just know Government is to big.

        I am not saying OWA has all the answers and that I agree with them 100%. But not everyone is a wack job communists (of course some are) You are being lied in order to cover for the real issues.

        They are talking about ending the Federal Reserve and breaking the unholy bond between Government and Wall St and I support that. This guy is at OWA and I support what hes saying, and so do many of the people around him

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZmPWcLQ1Mk

  8. Regarding #8, gender equality. I hate it. And here is exactly why:

    “Because it’s humiliating. A new amendment we vote on declaring that I am equal under the law to a man, I am mortified to discover there’s reason to believe I wasn’t before. I am a citizen of this country, I am not a special subset in need of your protection. I do not have to have my rights handed down to me by a bunch of old, white, men. The same Article 14 that protects you, protects me”

    So fuck off.

    Also… I don’t think demand 13 is a real thing. I think they were all high by the time they got to that part.

    • *Sound of clapping* I’ve always wondered about this sort of thing too, Iwas always taught that all Americans were equal under Americain law. Special laws to protect ‘special’ groups always bothered me as well.

  9. Even the liberals see the problem here
    http://lhote.blogspot.com/2011/10/solidarity-first-then-fear-for-this.html

  10. Pelosi….isn’t that one of those really ucky zombies that need to be put back to earth.
    “You don’t understand women…”
    Really? You saying you are one? I thought you were a caricature of a human being.

  11. As stupid as they sound, there are some legitimate gripes in there.

    For example, the credit reporting agencies have known for years that there are genuine issues with inaccuracies in credit reports, but they do nothing about it. Estimates are that 70% of all credit files contain at least one serious error. When you as a consumer file a dispute, they ask the creditor if the report is correct, the creditor says yes, and as far as the credit reporting agency is concerned, that settles that. Something needs to be done, and the FTC has ignored this for years.

    • I simply demanded they provide me with a payment record to document the alleged debt. Generally, there is no such record at all. Then the debt goes away.

      I encountered one agency that insisted I owed a debt, but was unable to provide an account number for said debt. They then insisted I was mistaken. I informed the flunky my information came from my credit card company. They insisted they’d had no such discussion with my credit card company. I explained that my CC company had given me the direct extension # and name of this flunky, which is how I was talking to them.

      This was one of the few times I did threaten a lawyer. After being passed up three levels, I said, “No, you will not be able to help me. Put me through to the president of the company.”
      “He doesn’t talk to customers.”
      “Then maybe he will talk to my attorney. What is your name, please?”
      Suddenly this debt I didn’t owe to an account that no longer existed stopped existing.

      At the same time, documentation–either way–is necessary. I always insist on a letter noting satisfaction of debt when I close an account, for that reason.

      And of course, less debt makes it easier.

      • Unethical behavior on the part of companies is as old as…………companies? Many credit companies make money on the ignorance of their ‘customers’.

    • There are actually SEVERAL legitimate gripes.

      But- as with any protest movement, there are actually two movements. The, ahem, More Equal Leaders Who Deserve Their Positions- commies and wobblies and cosmos- moved in and took over.

      Many of these people are distressed by what they see as a political system that ignores the people (and, despite the Tea Party, due to changes in the post nixon era, they are fundamentally correct. We now have National Parties instead of local clubs).

      And, with corporations that have assumed roles far more powerful and less regulated than any individual person. The “corporate person” is a dangerous thing. All of Larry’s troubles with small business and the government are- at least in some part- designed to make small businesses less competitive to large corporations.

      But, then again, there’s the Pinkos and syndics in running the thing now. Because “consensus democracy has never been tried” ….. yeah, right.

      I would love to get into detail about exactly why I happen to disagree with BOTH the privatized and single payer health care systems. As well as why the banking and credit industries are a menace- though the Tea Party has that one pretty well explained.

      Demands one, three, and nine- taken together- GUARANTEE something called pogroms. possibly in 5 years, possibly in 15. But I’d argue on sooner rather than later. There’s a ton of historical evidence, and some sound cultural reasons that would be labelled racist if I dared speak them.

      As for infrastructure- we are a society of sovereign citizens. Profiteering through monopolies isn’t really compatible with that in the long term. There ARE certain classes of infrastructure that should be handled on a local/state- and in a VERY DAMNED FEW CASES- federal governmental level. (With the work contracted out to LOCAL businesses). And, to be sure, now is a bitchin time to move on that. Pork it up! But the proposals you actually SEE from the Left are going to remove work from the local granite construction company, not increase their employment numbers.

      Energy independence is critical. Yep, we gotta get off oil. I vote nuclear until we figure out something better (which we will). We’re talking national security critical. Okay? But these….. fleas…. don’t know the first thing about how to do it. Bucky did- he mapped it out in the 70s and 80s. But these people think a $45 solar panel will give them internets and microwaves for life, and they are just plain ignorant.

      And at this point I’m far past replying to divemedic, and into rant territory, so I’ll leave it.

      • Honestly, the Tea Partiers and these guys are upset about the same things – a government that is not controlled by the people, that transferred billions and billions of dollars to a few wealthy cronies rather than doing something useful to fix the country.

        They have exactly opposite idea of how to fix the problems, but the root cause is pretty much the same. Government not of the people.

  12. Excellent, excellent post Larry.

    You literally had the wife and I howling at the line “The Occupier’s answer reads like a bunch of Communist dogma, after its been eaten, digested, and then shat out by a unicorn tripping on hallucinogenic mushrooms.”, then we read further and realized just how truthful it was!

    Preach on Bruthah! Preach on!

  13. Awesome rant Larry, I really enjoyed it, I eagerly await the flood of idiots that always pop up in the comments of your rants as soon as they are linked on a liberal website, I love it when you lay the logic smackdown down on their tiny trolling minds.

  14. IMHO. You just said a mouth full, Larry!
    Kudos to you!

  15. Nice rant. All the bastards who call me a tea bagger, I just tell them they are wearing “Arabian goggles”, DO NOT search for that at work, or around children.
    I am so tired of the idiots who refuse to recognize the points you make, and the ludicrous nature of the “99%” people. One had a picture with the Lorax from Dr. Suess, saying “I am 99%” – I just observed that Lorax tastes like chicken.

    The first sentence, when you use it, and the people attacking you look it up, be ready for a violent response. It’s ok for them to slur us, but if you give it back to them, their widdle feelings are hurt, and they get really angry, on-line. Since they usually live 100s to 1000s of miles away, they feel secure in calling you anything.
    Keep on writing.

    • I wouldn’;t call myself a Tea Paty member today..considering how the media and the Political parties have Fucked it.
      I am a libertarian leaning conservative.
      I bet they can find something wrong with that.
      Like Ignoring people who actually have a lick of sense.
      I was at a meeting where OUR rep was here.
      I stood up and clapped…golf clap..
      and said..
      You sure talk pretty! and grinned.
      then I tried to act like an idiot and said…and acted most enthusiastic..
      seemed to put the wind out of her stupid sails..and her supporters got angry.
      so I dropped the drooling look and said…
      “You want to talk or do?”
      Stop treating me like a child and answer my questions.
      needless to say..the rep had to leave…
      prior engagements..
      probably a fundraiser for her dickbeating lib hearts who like to rip the heart out of a nation and say, “I feel for you”.
      Idiots

    • I attended the Utah Republican convention in 2010. During the day, I walked over to the democrat side to see what they had going on. One einstein, upon seeing my Tea Party lapel pin asked me if I was a “Tea Bagger”. I said very loudly:

      “Yes, I am a tea bagger and proud of it. Tea bagging is dipping your scrotum into someone elses mouth, while they gently lick and suck. Since you’re asking, I have to believe that you are soliciting sex from me. I accept, since you have no itchy whiskers and a very pretty mouth, which is partially open right now. No doubt, you are as anxious as I to start.

      “I just want all you folks staring at us to know that this sexual encounter is consensual and money isn’t involved, so it’s legal.”

      “While you’re sucking my balls, I’ll be happy to discuss my Tea Party opinions regarding less government and more democrats giving oral sex.”

      It was a good convention.

    • Regarding the “tea bagger” loud shaming at the dem convention… At the time, the lefties were having no end of fun calling nice ladies and kids ‘tea baggers’ as an in-joke degrading the tea party people. It burns me up to see that kind of thing, and the guy I was publicly shaming was a particularly low example of the breed.

      It may not have been polite, but it was better than punching the git. I have no doubt he’s ‘occupying Salt Lake’ even as we type.

      I will admit that my pelvic gyrations as I lectured might have been a bit over the top….

    • Whoa. lol. I googled the goggles. interestin to say the least.

  16. It’s turning out that the real monsters in our country are even freakier than the ones found in Larry’s books.
    Very well articulated!

  17. So, in summary, “punish success, reward failure, and free ice cream for everyone!” In response, “you are out of your bong-sucking mind.” As thousands of people with no life are rising up demanding to devour those of us with brains, should we declare the official beginning of the zombie apocalypse?

    • Don’t you know..it’s the land of mediocrity.
      Never correct the stupid…
      They HATE IT.
      might as well ask for equality for stupid and wise..instead of under the law.
      ya git me?

  18. “Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

    Okay? I was waiting for them to tack on ‘and free pony rides for everybody!!!11′ at the end, but this one sounds sane.”

    This actually sounds evil. After my initial foray into politics, I have seen how easy it is to keep our current system honest. I can currently find just 1 guy to observe a central vote counting location to make sure nobody is doing anything funny. In “precinct counted” elections, I have to place 1 person in EVERY precinct because the 1 precinct I miss will be the one they stuff with extra ballots.

  19. I said a lot of the same thing..I used verbal blunt force trauma. A unicorn? Why didn’t I think of that? I had the money being shit out in great steaming piles by the ‘Mystical Money Cow’

  20. I am the Incredible Hulk.
    I was exposed to Gamma radiation by an evil corporation while trying to pay off my college loans.
    Due to my debilitating rage outbursts I cannot hold down a job.
    I have to survive on the measly $800 a month I get from Social Security.
    I am about to lose my home to a greedy bank who wants to foreclose.
    I am constantly hounded by General “Thunderbolt” Ross and our nation’s military-industrial complex.
    Another greedy corporation created a dumb as fucking shit red version of me that is totally gay.
    I am the 99%.

  21. I think this is a lame attempt at a Liybia/Egypt style revolution. Clearly someone though that there would open riots in the streets and that kids would run around throwing bricks and stuff. But they failed to understand that out naiont has a history of protest…hell I think we invented it or at least innovated it.

    So to have another one? Join the club. The rhetoric you readon twitter about occupy wall street is the same hyperbole you read during Libyia and Egypt.

  22. I don’t think making fun of these guys serves a purpose. Marginalizing them does the same job of ignoring the part of their grievances that are legitimate that calling the Tea Party a bunch of crazies does.

    Yes, it’s ridiculous for them to want their college debts removed, because they can’t make a living off of an Arabian literature degree… but at the same time, there *is* a real problem with our college lean system, and how easy it is for stupid 18-year-olds to rack up enough debt to bury them for their entire life.

    Yes, it’s ridiculous to demand a $20 minimum wage… but it does point out that wages for the bottom half of the country have stagnated (at least, when you leave out additional welfare spending).

    It’s stupid to aim all this anger at people just for doing better than you… but does anyone deny the amount of cronyism in our current bastardized version of capitalism?

    So… instead of just mocking people, let’s have a dialog. Let’s try to get both the Tea Party and the 99%ers the air time they deserve. And, among other things, require both that protestors be peaceful and that the NYPD act professionally… there’s been a bit of both acting up lately, from the reports I read.

    I think Ron Paul said it best: “If they were demonstrating peacefully, and making a point, and arguing our case, and drawing attention to the Fed — I would say, ‘good!’”

    By the way, for those interested… both the 99 percent tumblr feed, and the 53 percent tumblr feed started in opposition, are really interesting. They’re a great example of just different perspectives… I agree with the 53 percent much more, but I can sympathize with the 99 percenters. They’ve got real problems, they’re just kind of misguided.

    http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/
    http://the53.tumblr.com/

    • You know who else had legitimate gripes? Lenin. Can we now have a discussion about these gripes where the solution isn’t about killing all the rich people and taking their stuff?

      • Sure, and that’s my main problem with the Occupy movement.

        “Voting is HARD, volunteering in local politics is HARD, we need a new rulebook that we make up so it’s easy for us!”

        There’s a fair argument that since the Nixon era, we’ve had a huge rise in the power of National Party political machines. But there’s nothing actually restricting local level party power, and it’s possible to take a good hard look at what went wrong and fix it.

      • I guess I’m not sure how much of the people protesting want to the kill rich and take their stuff.

        I’m sure there are some who do. Obviously whoever wrote the specific points you were going against was an idiot. But the movement itself is too fragmented to be making that much of a case. They don’t, as a whole, have an official stance on much of anything – just that they’re pissed off at the imbalance of wealth in the US and their current fiscal prospects.

        From what I’ve read, you’ll even find a fair number of Tea Partiers among them.

        So yeah, I’m completely against the Marxists amidst the protestors. But not all Occupiers are Marxists, from the accounts I’ve read.

    • It also annoys me that they claim to be speaking for me and so many of my friends. Believe me, we’re not close to rich; not even in the same neighborhood. But these guys by claiming to be part of the 99% are trying to include me in their numbers?? I’ve never asked for a handout and don’t intend to start!

  23. Just awesome. I’ve got to say though, I am in college for the right reason but I am extremely bitter about it. Colleges pretty much have a government enforced monopoly through the board of accreditation. As a result, prices have been sky rocketing. The price of everything in college is absurd, from $300 required books to $5000 per semester for out of state tuition. Not to mention the fact that it takes 3 times as long to get a degree in the US than it does anywhere else in the world. College sucks, but almost all high paying jobs require a degree now.

    • Matthew..just out of curiosity what field is your degree in?

      • Major in legal studies with a minor in english. I plan on going to law school afterward as well. I’m doing it the smart way though, working full time and paying my tiution out of pocket. No debt for me so far. Unfortunately, working an office job full time means that I don’t get to enjoy college. And don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating “free” schooling for everyone on the government’s tab. That would make the situation worse, not better. Honestly, I’m not sure what the solution is.

    • A bunch of us here in Texas have decided to renounce our citizenship, move to Mexico, and then sneak back illegally. That way we can get in-state tuition and all kinds of other perks… (LOL)

  24. I like how #5 and #7 are mutually exclusive with the physics of today.

  25. All I can say is Bravo! Thanks for putting eloquently what so many of us are thinking about these occupiers and their ridiculous demands. I am tired of the Government reaching into my pocket to ask me to pay for their (and other peoples) bad decisions. I am proud to be a tea party supporter and considering I like Herman Cain, I don’t see how that makes me a racist. I truly hope a ton of people read your blog as it put things into perspective exceedingly well. Thanks for another awesome rant!

  26. When the twenty bucks an hour deal kicks in I plan to work non-stop 24/7/365. Of course by work I mean sit on my couch surfing the net and watching TV. But man, all that sweet overtime.

    JD

  27. I have seen comments similar to yours made, in various forms in various places… but I haven’t seen such an awesome refutation of the flea-party “demands” made anywhere, by anyone.

    As an aside, I have to say I’m extremely proud of my 13-year-old daughter. I sent her a copy of those demands, and even she could see how ruinous they’d be to the country and the world.

  28. Most of these assclowns will head home as soon as the temps drop below freezing. Wait them out, the reality of another New York blizzard will send them home crying for thier Mommies.

    I’m all for helping the helpless except when it comes to the clueless and the useless. Hey, that’s what wolves and lions are for.

    • Once winter comes, they gubberment will probably give them the surplus Katrina RVs for them to live in along with a few grand on a debit card to make it through. Too bad we don’t have MacAurthur anymore to take care of this present day Hooverville……

      • “Hooverville” — you know that was a term made up by FDR during *his* presidency, that the media jumped on? Media collusion in re-writing history — who’da thunk it?

      • Sadly that won’t affect the twits here in Texas at all really. We don’t really get much of a winter. OTOH…we’ve had longer snaps of cold, and those snaps have been colder the last couple winters soo…maybe we’ll get lucky.

  29. [...] Larry Correia did it again. Great comparison between the Tea Party and the recent Commie outbreak Occupy Wall Street unpleasantness, and detailed analysis of the teenage whining political demands of the latter. For the first few weeks I thought it was that they were against “Greed”. Wow. That’s a bold st… [...]

  30. I think it’s interesting that one crazy posts looney demands, and the website responds by saying THESE ARE NOT OUR DEMANDS, JUST THIS GUY’S DEMANDS, and the big media outlets are very quick to point this fact out.

    A couple of racist guys holding posters at a Tea Party rally get on camera before being told to leave, and despite the Tea Party repeatedly saying, THESE ARE NOT TEA PARTY VIEWS, JUST THIS WHACKO’S OPINION, we get Morgan Freeman wondering what’s really underlying the Tea Party’s opposition to Obama. Then reminding the viewers that it’s racism.

  31. Wow an entire page of straw man arguments and ad hominem attacks with an echo chamber underneath. I know you didn’t go to college to “broaden your mind” but it really is to bad you didn’t take a debate or philosophy class.

    These people are mad because the rich keep getting richer and richer and the middle class keeps getting poorer. These days the upper class no longer have to do any actual work, because they have enough money to invest that they can live off of the profit of these investments.

    These protesters don’t understand why various rich people should continue to profit from the work of other people, and not even pay a high rate of taxes since capital gains taxes are lower than income taxes.

    They are also mad that right now corporate profits are at an all time high, but unemployment is also very high. A few years ago something like this would be impossible. In order for these two factors to both be high a large company has to get a large amount of work out of each employee. In the past when this has happened, the large company would also decrease its prices so that it could out compete its competitors.

    These days the truly large companies no longer have to do so. Insurance companies are making more money than they ever have had to before, but instead of increasing my coverage, or lowering their price they are essentially taking my money and flaunting it. I would switch to another company but they are ALL doing this. In the past these sorts of things couldn’t happen because the barrier to entry was fairly low. If a big company got to big, then a new agile company could come up and take its place. That is how capitalism is supposed to work. Now unless you are already a multimillionaire there is no way you could start your own insurance company, or computer manufacturer, or what have you.

    There is still a place for American entrepreneurship, but its a small place. Unless you are already in the upper class, you will never be in the upper class. Its not a matter of skill or ability, its a matter of starting capital. You don’t have any.

    • Adam, first, you should stop with the class warfare arguments. Dividing America into “haves” and “have nots” is a false dichotomy. Everyone’s economic activities affect everyone else and even the poorest Americans benefit heavily from the presence and actions of rich people. For example, rich people put their money into banks, (one of those big companies you disdain), which then loan it out to other people, providing the starting capital you say they don’t have and enabling them to better their economic position. Henry Ford was one of the greediest people who every lived, but the jobs he created helped usher in an entirely new standard of living for America.

      Second, jacking up taxes for the wealthy is neither “fair” nor is it sound economic policy. In America, there is a presumption that everyone is equal in the eyes of the law and a person cannot be treated differently without due process. To that end, how would it be fair to specifically target any group for increased taxation, regardless of demographics? The only way to make taxes “fair” is to make them low, universal, and unavoidable. I won’t take the time to explain the economic repercussions of progressive taxation, but they are heavy.

      Third, you will probably find no argument in these comments that barriers to entry should be removed, but they are put in place by the government, not big corporations. The entrepreneurial spirit is still alive and well, you just have to start small and expand rather than expect to buy your way into a multi-million dollar company right off the bat.

      I didn’t write this to start a big argument with you, I’m just trying to say that your anger is pointed in the wrong direction.

    • I was on a debate team, was one of the best extemporaneous public speakers in my state, and got an A in a logic class in college after I confounded, researched the lies, and then destroyed the arguments of my liberal professor… So much for assumptions.

      And the rest of your post and the other… What a buch of defeatist garbage. The thing about how you have to be born rich to become rich. Bull crap. I was born poor. I grew up really poor. I worked hard, got into the lower middle class, then solid middle, then opened my own business, got poor again, sold business, was unemployed. Got job. Started my own business again. Went middle. Then upper middle. Now that I’m collecting royalties I still feel like upper middle, but the Democrats think I’m rich. With my current earnings path and lack of debt, I’m heading for solid lower rich.

      After that, who knows? It is all up to me.

      My boss at my military contracting job came from lower middle. She had a career, had kids, her and her husband were regular middle class. 6 years ago she had an idea, worked hard, and now she’s rich. Company went from 1 employee to the top 100 biggest employers, and the 6th largest woman owned company in the state.

      This stuff is common. Now that I’ve moved and built a home in a “rich” area, (we’re like Park City, but for Ogden!) I’ve discoved that very few of my “rich” neighbors in their 5000-8000 square foot houses were born rich. Most are relatively normal, worked hard, had an idea or learned a valuable skill. I’ve got 14 doctors and 6 dentists in my immediate area. One of them was born in a literal tin roof shack and grew up with a dozen siblings and no idea where their next meal would come from. Now he lives in a house that looks like a Swiss ski chalet and has an airplane.

      Oh, but the poor get poorer! More nonsense. America’s poor are the rich for the rest of the world. How are you getting poorer when you have a house far larger than most successful Europeans, it is heated in the winter, cooled in the summer, with your giant fridge filled with food from our giant groceries, and your car, and your TV, and your cell phone, and your computer, and your internet. Don’t give me this poor are getting poorer nonsense. Our greatest health concern for poor people is that they’re too fat. That’s a health epidemic? We have too much food and don’t have to work that physically hard to get it?

      Cry me a river.

      But the SUPER RICH are getting richer! Who gives a flying flip? Seriously? So what? I don’t care that Steve Jobs had a tons of money. He was brilliant and made money because of it. His success doesn’t diminish me or you. In fact, the things that he accomplished opened up new doors and new wealth making opportunities for others. Another rich guy I know got that way by selling aps for iPhones. Success breeds more success.

      What you are exhibiting is petty jealousy. Somebody else is super rich, and though you have a lifestyle better than most of the rest of the world, the Occupies want to drag them down.

      • Excellent post, Larry. I agree with everything you’re saying. And that’s coming from someone who was unemployed off and on for the last year, is currently only employed part-time and has never been above “lower middle class” in my life. We have all the opportunity we want to make for ourselves.

        -Mr. White

      • Excellent post, Larry. I agree with everything you’re saying. And that’s coming from someone who was unemployed off and on for the last year, is currently only employed part-time and has never been above “lower middle class” in my life. We have all the opportunity we want to make for ourselves.

        -Mr. White

  32. When did we make the shift to the mindset that being rich is bad? I don’t think I’m that old (37) and I can remember when we as kids all wanted to be rich. Hell, I still do. Why do these people always bitch about the minimum wage? If you don’t want to work for $8/hr or whatever it is in your area, work harder, find another job, get some training/education. Do one or all three of those and you will find that the level of minimum wage is not the big deal it once was. Minimum wage is for high school kids. Want to know what one of the coolest things about America is besides guns? There is no Maximum Wage. Ponder that for a second, you asshats, and decide if the problem is the system or the fact that you don’t understand the system.

    And say we do get rid of all debt and it is wiped off of these mystical “books” of which they speak. Anyone want to take a stab at how long it will be before the debt is wracked right up again? The system that allows debt is not the problem. It’s the inability to live effectively within that system.

    And now my problem with a $20/hr minimum wage: if $20/hr is the least amout you can make, what in the hell do these people think will happen to the cost of living? If $20/hr is what I would pay the employee on my payroll who is the closest to being unemployable, What do they think will happen to the prices of all my good/services? Think of the biggest waste of a human life you’ve ever had the misfortune to work next to. Yeah, they want that guy to make $20/hr. Now ask yourself if that’s the baseline, what are you worth. See the problem this causes with the percieved value of the dollar? Figure out what the minimum wage is in your state and then figure out what that buys. Say a paperback book at $8 retail. Under the $20/hr minimum wage that now costs $20. Say it with me, $18 Footlongs at Subway.

    I would love to know how they can logically reconcile getting rid of all the debt in the world and still having an economy here so that dollars can be traded for work. Collapse the world economy with the dissolution of debt and then give me an idea of what that $20 for an hour of work can buy. Seriously, give me an idea because I have no idea as to what $20 will be. These people seem to have the same understanding of economic basics as Rainman. You want to see something exciting? Tell China we’ve decided we don’t owe them anything.

    • Actually your paperback would probably wind up costing around $11.11 if we assume a similar relationship between wage cost and price of sandwich (assuming a $9 wage and a $5 footlong). However you are assuming that every person who gets a chunk of that sandwich is making minimum wage, and that is of course false. I agree that $20 is stupid, but an increase that matches inflation wouldn’t be a bad idea.

      I also think it is funny that you think you can become rich if you work hard enough. That is no longer true. You can become well off, but you can never become rich through hard work alone in this country anymore. That is one of the reason these people are angry.

      • Well, in my state right now minimum wage is $8.50. A paperback costs $7.99 typically. So right now an hour of work buys you a paperback here.

        And I’m not sure where you get that I’m assuming that everyone involved in the making of a sandwich is making minimum wage.

        Also, nowhere do I say that you can get rich through hard work enough. Whether or not I believe this is beside the point. Don’t put words in my mouth.

        What I think is funny is that you don’t think that hard work will get you rich in America. I’ve actually done quite well through hard work. You might want to try it.

    • Okay, we are all pretty much in agreement here that “magically” removing all debts, profits, and poverty by riding a unicorn into the sunset and deeming it so is bad fantasy.

      But, aside from the commie/syndicalist assery, theres a couple causal issues that we should be looking at.

      Our current banking system is bad. It isn’t a matter of working hard and getting rich. Our current banking system is – in essence- a privately owned and powerful branch of government. It has become exactly the sort of oligarchal power base we tried to remove from the nation in the late 18th century.

      Modern banking and finance isn’t about “work hard, succeed”, nor is it about making the nation stronger, increasing liberty, or anything except a narrow profit for a narrow segment of people who want more power than the sovereign citizen’s vote can give them.

      The second thing- and this one I don’t think everyone really sees, is that larger corporations and small businesses are not the same thing. “Business friendly” to me means I can make knives, sell my knives, and do stuff without having to worry about stoopid levels of paperwork and legal hip gyrations. “Business friendly” to a corporation means they make ever increasing percentages of profit in an ever growing market with government support- with no obligation to keep a dime inside the country, nor to offer any support to anything in this nation except for a sort-of-promise to have some jobs appear here and there.

    • Crazytuco, when I was in college in the early 1990s I got sick of all the “I’m worse off” and “I’m so broke” and “I’m poorer than you” stuff. It was one-downs-man-ship, because the poorest, most desperate soul “won.” This is at a private college, although I’d say about 50% of us had some kind of scholarship, work-study, or other financial aid. Oh, and at graduation the speaker told us that we “owed a debt to society” for the privilege of going to college and so we had to go out and do community service. So the “being rich is bad” in popular culture goes back at least that far. Although there’s been an element of it as far as into the Middle Ages for certain types of wealth (commerce and financial businesses vs. land holdings).

  33. http://swampland.time.com/full-results-of-oct-9-10-2011-time-poll/

    ——-
    Q11. IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, A GROUP OF PROTESTORS HAS BEEN GATHERING ON WALL STREET IN NEW YORK CITY AND SOME OTHER CITIES TO PROTEST POLICIES WHICH THEY SAY FAVOR THE RICH, THE GOVERNMENT’S BANK BAILOUT, AND THE INFLUENCE OF MONEY IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM. IS YOUR OPINION OF THESE PROTESTS VERY FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE, VERY UNFAVORABLE, OR DON’T YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE PROTESTS TO HAVE AN OPINION?

    VERY FAVORABLE 25%
    SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE 29%

    SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE 10%
    VERY UNFAVORABLE 13%
    DON’T KNOW ENOUGH 23%
    NO ANSWER/DON’T KNOW 1%
    —–

    Q8. ON ANOTHER ISSUE, IS YOUR OPINION OF THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT VERY FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE, VERY UNFAVORABLE, OR DON’T YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE TEA PARTY TO HAVE AN OPINION?

    VERY FAVORABLE 8%
    SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE 19%
    SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE 9%
    VERY UNFAVORABLE 24%

    DON’T KNOW ENOUGH 39%
    NO ANSWER/DON’T KNOW 1%
    —–

    (Pardon the capitals – as given in the source)

    • Rule of thumb- anything found on the internet in ALL CAPS tends to be unreliable.

      • Uh-huh.

        “TIME MAGAZINE/ABT SRBI ”

        http://www.srbi.com/Home.html

        “Abt SRBI is a full-service global strategy and research organization specializing in public policy and opinion surveys, banking and finance, telecommunications, media, energy, transportation, insurance and health care. Clients include major financial institutions, Fortune 500 companies, federal, state and local governments, foundations and universities. Abt SRBI has an established track record of providing high quality, timely and cost effective research and analysis. In addition to its headquarters in New York City, Abt SRBI has offices in Washington D.C., Florida, New Jersey, Tennessee, West Virginia and North Carolina.

        The firm was founded in 1981 with the explicit purpose of combining high quality analytic capabilities with in-house control of research implementation to ensure high quality, timely and actionable research for strategy and decision-making in rapidly changing environments.

        Abt SRBI is a member of the National Council on Published Polls (NCCP) and the Council of American Survey Research Organizations (CASRO). We strictly abide by the codes of standards and disclosure of these organizations. ”

        So, to recap

        - the majority of Americans support OWS
        - more Americans disapprove of the tea Party than approve of it.

      • All that, and they don’t know what the (SHIFT) key does… impressive cred there, Sunshine.

      • I’m sure Abt SRBI will be just devastated by your coherent critique.

    • I actually read your link (and I would suggest anyone else interested do so as well.)
      What it shows is that of the 1001 adults who participated in that poll, less than 1% agree that the Tea Party represents them. Yet in last years elections, it is undeniable that the Tea Party changed the course of the elections. That’s not a biased statement, btw- the media from all sides commented on it as well; It’s pretty much indisputable. So I’m betting if you did a survey of 1001 adults in.. oh let’s say GUNS magazine, you would likely find a different answer. The point is, regardless of the credibility of the pollsters doing the survey, it’s biased by its source and too small of a sample size. 1001 adults out of a country of over 307,000,000? That’s… a WHOLE lot of extrapolation.
      Someone above made the point, (and i think it’s a good and telling one) that the Occupiers and the Tea Party activists are all in agreement that things are bad and have to change. How about we take that as a starting point and start trying to work out a possible solution through reasonable discourse and logic? I’ll start- can you name one domestic governmental agency that has become more efficient or useful due to increased governmental spending?

    • Well with media constantly bashing the tea party and praising OWS, did you really expect any different? This proves absolutely nothing.

  34. A couple of racist guys holding posters at a Tea Party rally get on camera before being told to leave, and despite the Tea Party repeatedly saying, THESE ARE NOT TEA PARTY VIEWS, JUST THIS WHACKO’S OPINION, we get Morgan Freeman wondering what’s really underlying the Tea Party’s opposition to Obama. Then reminding the viewers that it’s racism.

    http://depts.washington.edu/uwiser/racepolitics.html

    “As the figure shows, even as we account for conservatism and partisanship, support for the Tea Party remains a valid predictor of racial resentment. We’re not saying that ideology isn’t important, because it is: as people become more conservative, it increases by 23 percent the chance that they’re racially resentful. Also, Democrats are 15 percent less likely than Republicans to be racially resentful. Even so, support for the Tea Party makes one 25 percent more likely to be racially resentful than those who don’t support the Tea Party.

    • Oh puh leeeze. really? Not buyin

      • I’m sure the University of Washington will be just devastated by your coherent critique.

      • I’m sure those who support smaller government will be just devistated by your coherent critique!

      • Phoenician. What ‘critique’? I don’t think that word means what you think it means. My point was..I CALL BULLSHIT. By the way..RACE is a misnomer old boy. There isn’t but ONE race, and that’s the human one. All the rest is tribalism. As for me and for most of the people I know..it’s not about color, it’s about character. I honestly don’t understand why this is such a hard concept to fucking grasp. It ain’t rocket science.

    • 1006 adults polled by the Institute For The Study of Ethnicity, Race, and Sexuality believe that support for the Tea Party remains a predictor of racial resentment? Wow. I bet they could also find it to be a predictor of sexism, too. Again if you base results off of 1006 adults out of 307,000,000 people I wouldn’t put too much faith in the results. I bet I can find 1006 people who believe in just about anything- doesn’t make it so. The truth is, I’ve known many Tea Party activists personally and not ONE of them has shown me any racial resentment. Do I believe the “WISER” poll or accept the evidence of my own experiences?… hmmm….

      • Again if you base results off of 1006 adults out of 307,000,000 people I wouldn’t put too much faith in the results.

        It’s a pity statisticians have never addressed this issue,

        Certainly, they have never come up with ways to determine that with a population of 307,000,000, a 1000 person sample will give a 3.1% error level with a 95% confidence rate.

        Truly, this seems to be a great oversight on their part – perhaps you should point it out to them.

      • Believe me, statisticians address this issue all the time, mostly to people like me, when we hire them to work for us… I’ve employed several and I’ve done quite a bit of statistical analysis myself, though mostly related to financial data as opposed to poll sampling.

        Mark Twain said there are three kinds of lies; lies, damned lies, and statistics. I’ve yet to meet a statistician that doesn’t love that famous quote. The outcome of a poll can be manipulated many different ways. When you commission a poll to be taken, you normally set some general parameters for the stat’s company to use. These parameters can be set in various ways, from I want raw ultra realistic fiscal data to help me plan my advertising, all the way to I want to prove a specific point, so skew samples until you reach something that looks like what I want to see. Depending on the customer, they will go forth and do so.

        Any political poll should be taken with a grain of salt, especially if it doesn’t pass the smell test. The only political polls I pay much attention to are when you can get the data from internal campaign polls because they are based on raw data for the people who spend the campaign’s money, or from polling places who make their money based upon their track record for predicting results. Anything that comes from a political entity that has a point to prove, or anything from a university (but I repeat myself) is automatically suspect.

        And the sampling size thing and 95% accuracy… I had a stats professor once actually come out and admit that what he did was mostly voodoo. That was refreshing.
        I liked this professor quite a bit. Same dude taught my stats 201 class that was required by all business students, and he at least admited by the end of the semester that the class was just to give the tenured professors something to do, because whenever real business people needed real statistical analysis in real life we would just end up hiring somebody like him anyway. The real basis for statistical analysis for people making business decisions is the smell test. If something smells funny, it probably is.

        So you cited a poll saying that the vast majority people don’t identify with the Tea Party… Whoop de freaking do… Except when I apply the smell test of their influence from the last election cycle and what I can see with my own eyes, that doesn’t seem to jive. I’ve seen other national polls putting their approval somewhere in the 20-30% range, and that seems to match election results over the last cycle.

        So that makes me ask, who commissioned this poll, and what was the desired nature of said commission?

        I ate lunch with a Harvard MBA that is on the national finance committee for one of the current presidential campaigns last week. (accidently put my foot in my mouth and insulted Harvard MBAs right before I found out that he had one too, whoops) The polls that this guy commissions are geared for a very specific purpose. Tell me where/how to concentrate our fundage. He pays statisticians large sums of money to do this as accurately as possible… That’s their job. Those are the parameters. This is what I want to know. That’s how it works. That’s how they get paid. This kind of data tends to be solid because if it turns out to be wrong… they don’t get work in the future.

        Yet, I’m supposed to believe that a random poll, that doesn’t smell right, from a place I’ve never heard of, is supposed to automatically be taken at face value because it is posted on the internet? And somebody eyed a bell curve to say that it was 95% accurate? Who paid them? What was the goal? Or did they just do this poll out of the goodness of their hearts, purely for informational purposes with no bias?

        Sure. Whatever. Put your typical high and mighty academic assurance up your ass, Phonecian.

      • 0.000325%. And again, part of it is where you ask the questions.
        Example: Larry is in Salt Lake City and asks 100 people their religion. 98% of them say they are Mormon. So according to statistics, we can extrapolate that even with a 3% margin of error, at least 95% of Americans are Mormons…
        There is no need for me to point this out to statisticians- its one of the first things they’re taught.
        I’m still hoping you can name even one domestic governmental agency (which of course would except the military as their focus is International) that has become more efficient or useful due to increased governmental spending so we can continue the discussion?
        We’ve already spent trillions to fix these things- surely it should be easy to name a few…

      • 0.000325%. And again, part of it is where you ask the questions.

        I was sort of thinking that the paragraph:

        “The survey is drawn from a probability sample of 1006 cases, stratified by state. The Multi-State Survey of Race and Politics included seven states, six of which were battleground states in 2008. It includes Georgia, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, North Carolina, and Ohio as the battleground states. For its diversity and its status as an uncontested state, California was also included for comparative purposes. The study, conducted by the Center for Survey Research at the University of Washington, has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percent and was in the field February 8 – March 15, 2010.”

        was self-explanatory. My mistake – next time I’ll see if I can find a research study which uses little cartoons for its framing remarks to make things easier for you.

      • “A study with pictures”? Go for one with Japanimation style! I loooove Japanimation style!

      • Phoenician, you ignorant slut. setting aside your juvenile attempt at insulting me, you responded to the first part of my sentence & nothing else. If you can’t understand it perhaps you should be quiet while the grownups talk. I respectfully tried to have a discussion but I’m obviously wasting my time here. Go back to your basement , troll.

      • So that makes me ask, who commissioned this poll, and what was the desired nature of said commission?

        I would have thought the prominent words “Time Magazine” would be a clue.

        Sure. Whatever. Put your typical high and mighty academic assurance up your ass, Phonecian.

        It’s interesting that a simple observation makes you so angry. Have you applied the same high standard of critical reasoning to, say, your portrayal of the OWS protestors, or the Tea Party’s claims?

        You dismiss a Time magazine survey because you don’t agree with the fidnings, and yet you seem to swallow Fox News-style views on the Tea Party, despite the ample evidence of their corporate backing and hype, and on the OWS, despite the evidence of their wide-spread and spontenous nature.

        And then you get upset so very very easily when simple observations are pointed out to you. Have you considered whether you might be suffering from cognitive dissonance?

      • Have you been able to find out what the criteria were for including people in the sample? Adults? Registered voters? Registered voters likely to vote? 50% registered Republicans likely to vote, and 50% registered Democrats likely to vote? 50% registered Democrats likely to vote, 25% registere Republicans likely to vote, and 25% registered Independents likely to vote? Each one of these would give highly different total responses.

        Also, there has been more coverage of the OWS crowd in 9 days than in 9 *months* for the Tea Party. The Tea Party coverage claimed that there were violence (never proven), racism (the few people were asked to leave or were certified plants), and if you can find any arrests, please do post them. Also there were all sorts of insinuations that the Tea Party was calling for armed insurrection — also never proven.

        Meanwhile, the OWS crowd is on tape with countless instances of anti-semitism, calls for armed insurrection, attempting to shut down streets, attempting to induce police to arrest them, and countless more actions of public defecation and urination, not to mention fornication.

        And that’s not even taking into consideration that the Tea Party meetings all had been issued permits, left when the permit said they had to, and took all their garbage and trash (and, in fact, *all* the garbage and trash, even if it *wasn’t* theirs) with them when they left.

        OWS has no permits, is squatting illegally, fights the authorities instead of leaving even when given 24 hours’ notice that they need to move, and are living in squallor such that they are a health hazard to the people who have to live and work in the vicinity.

        But none of the negatives of the OWS are mentioned in the news stories. They are held up as shinig examples of the kid next door, while the Tea Party participants are called racists, and given sexually charged “nicknames” that are entirely un-earned. While the OWS people are actually *doing* the acts (sometimes in the open for children to see) that are alleged to belong to the Tea Party.

        If people do have a better feeling about the OWS than the Tea Party, it is only because they have been lied to by the media. If the Big Bad Wolf had this kind of favorable publicity, and Grandma had the publicity that the Tea Party has been getting, there would have been peasants out with torches and pitchforks to kill Grandma for seducing the wolf.

        You think someone in this discussion is suffering from “cognitive dissonance”? I think that describes the media and the Democratic party. Busses full of union members show up and it’s “grass roots” while individuals driving for hours to attend a Tea Party event is “astro-turf”. So, if you share that view, I guess it describes you, too. Wonder how you pulled that particular phrase out so quickly? Was it used on you recently?

      • Yes, Time Magazine would be a clue. Anybody who thinks Time is unbiased and doesn’t have a narrative is an imbecile.

        As for the smell test, you give me a national poll from a place that is basically a cheerleader for the DNC, and in this “95% accurate” poll the number of Americans that identify with the Tea Party is smaller than Rush Limbaugh’s daily listening audience, so when I don’t swallow this nonsense I’m the one with cognitive dissonance?

        Good old Phonecian. One of my favorite libs that posts here. From your obscure name that suggests you are academically superior to your smug condenscension, the fun never stops. Anything said by anyone that disagrees with you is anecdote and the second you post a link it is superior unbiased evidence. And you always bring up Fox… I’ve watched maybe 10 hours of Fox news programming over the last year. Oh noes, the horror! They’re so BIASED, what with having an angle that represents about half of the country! Why can’t they fall in line like CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, Time, Newsweek, the New York Times, and the vast majority of other news papers!?! Curse them!

      • <i.So you cited a poll saying that the vast majority people don’t identify with the Tea Party… Whoop de freaking do… Except when I apply the smell test of their influence from the last election cycle and what I can see with my own eyes, that doesn’t seem to jive.

        Except if they were largely a front for corporate astroturfing, of course. That US politics is influenced by corporate money is hardly a revelation.

        Talking about “smell tests”, did you noticed that the Tea Party was a purely US phenomena, orientated towards electoral influence and the US election cycle?

        Meanwhile, OWS is resonating with people all over the West, with half a million marching in Madrid, 200,000 in Rome, tens of thousands in Berlin… And the protests have simply started and organically swelled as people got involved on an individual basis.

        So which of them is more likely to be a ploy designed with a populist facade, and which an actual populist movement?

      • Excuse me, but the Tea Party is not a front for anything, let alone receiving corporate money. You want to know which politician has received the most money from Wall Street high rollers? Barak H. Obama, by a huge factor. It’s all there in the reports campaigns are required to file. George Soros had his sock puppets start spreading rumors about the Koch brothers to take the heat off of him. The Koch Foundation gives money to hospitals, museums, NPR, PBS, and all sorts of philanthropic organizations. And Cato Institute, which is a think tank. George Soros does not do that sort of philanthropy. He gives money to Media Matters, and a lot of other political action groups that are fronts for other political action groups.

        Personally, I have helped organize a few Tea Party meetings. I’ve attended a few others. I never got a cent from anybody other than my husband. We print fliers, make phone calls, and just talk to friends. No union has printed signs for us. No unions bus people in and pay for them to attend events. No unions hire day laborers to attend events to make them look like a lot more people are involved. However, those are all things that are happening in OWS.

        Where is the money coming from to buy tents, buy bedding, cater food ($16 / pound lox? For a couple of hundred people??), buy tobacco and other substances to give away, and *pay* for people to attend OWS? Follow the money trail.

        If you actually believe there is corporate support for the Tea Party movement, but none for OWS, I know this great bridge I can sell you! Think of the money you’ll make collecting tolls between Manhattan and Brooklyn!

      • Excuse me, but the Tea Party is not a front for anything, let alone receiving corporate money

        http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?pagewanted=all

        “Last week the Kochs were shoved unwillingly into the spotlight by the most comprehensive journalistic portrait of them yet, written by Jane Mayer of The New Yorker. Her article caused a stir among those in Manhattan’s liberal elite who didn’t know that David Koch, widely celebrated for his cultural philanthropy, is not merely another rich conservative Republican but the founder of the Americans for Prosperity Foundation, which, as Mayer writes with some understatement, “has worked closely with the Tea Party since the movement’s inception.” To New Yorkers who associate the David H. Koch Theater at Lincoln Center with the New York City Ballet, it’s startling to learn that the Texas branch of that foundation’s political arm, known simply as Americans for Prosperity, gave its Blogger of the Year Award to an activist who had called President Obama “cokehead in chief.”

        The other major sponsor of the Tea Party movement is Dick Armey’s FreedomWorks, which, like Americans for Prosperity, is promoting events in Washington this weekend. Under its original name, Citizens for a Sound Economy, FreedomWorks received $12 million of its own from Koch family foundations. Using tax records, Mayer found that Koch-controlled foundations gave out $196 million from 1998 to 2008, much of it to conservative causes and institutions. That figure doesn’t include $50 million in Koch Industries lobbying and $4.8 million in campaign contributions by its political action committee, putting it first among energy company peers like Exxon Mobil and Chevron. Since tax law permits anonymous personal donations to nonprofit political groups, these figures may understate the case. The Kochs surely match the in-kind donations the Tea Party receives in free promotion 24/7 from Murdoch’s Fox News, where both Beck and Palin are on the payroll. “

      • “Comprehensive Journalism” and “New Yorker” are mutually exclusive terms. :D

        Wait, you mean that in America a rich guy can donate money to things he believes in that aren’t Democrat causes? The terror…

      • Yes, this is a good article that highlighst the *unbiased* and superior investigative reporting that we all come to expect from this sort of thing: “Since tax law pe rmits anonymous personal donations to nonprofit political groups, these figures may understate the case. The Kochs surely match the in-kind donations the Tea Party receives in free promotion 24/7 from Murdoch’s Fox News, where both Beck and Palin are on the payroll.” Please note the phrase “The Koch’s surely match” — which means, “I have no evidence for this, but I hate them, so they’re doing whatever awful things I say, just because it’s them.”

        This is laughable. And, btw, Palin is an occasional contributor, and Glenn Beck isn’t with Fox anymore. This is exactly the same junk that says “John Ringo is on the payroll of Fox News” when he was asked to make a couple of statements. John Ringo is a rather well-known author whose works are published by Baen, the same publishing house as our host’s books, just in case the name isn’t familiar to people of your particular bent.

        Oooohhhh.. Big, bad Koch Brothers. Now find out how many hospitals, orphanages, museums, universities, colleges, and PBS and NPR George Soros has made major contributions to. How many PBS shows end with “and major contributions from .. The Soros Foundation”? How many hospitals and museums have “George Soros Wing”s?

        You are pathetic. And a sock puppet. You get your talking points and nasty articles from the Soros media (and that article is so full of wiggle words it’s pathetic). It’s like watching the OWS play the “repeat after me” game: Soros says it, and his little puppets repeat it.

      • I just saw this quote the other day. Not sure who said it.

        “Statistics are like a bikini: what they cover up is far more important than what they reveal.”

    • If being a Tea Party member means that one is racist, can you explain Herman Cain’s popularity among Tea Party members?

      And how many of Obama’s supporters in 2008 were “racially resentful?” Or does racial resentment only count when it originates with a white person?

  35. OK then. Everyone gets $20 per hour for doing nothing.

    People stop working, since who needs to make or sell stuff or grow food if you get $20 an hour to masturbate all day.

    The amount of goods on the shelves drops, and the number of people chasing those goods rises.

    Two things happen:

    The government does nothing, and that $20/hour is no longer enough to buy a cup of coffee.

    The government institutes price controls and rationing … no one works still … but we now have an economy just like Cuba.

    Is Cuba what these fucking retards want? Because if you don’t do your assigned job in Cuba, you get to cut cane so the government can sell sugar abroad.

  36. May I please plagiarize your comparison? I just love the way it flows. I need new material for rally signs, and “Flea Party vs. Tea Party” is so ripe for photo ops. It will drive the media nuts.

  37. I find it funny that these myrmidons who are against “Big Business” tend to support Big Government.

    Here’s a clue folks- you can’t have one without the other. It’s a nice bit of give and take. Poli boy gives out pork, Gigantoco gives back campaign cash and votes. Poli boy give back subsidies, tax incentives, and favorable regulations (at least for the Union), and more cash and votes come in. And so it goes… hell, why do you think Obama got so much cash from Wall Street? (See also Solyndria)

  38. I like reading these. I can already see people frothing at the mouth in some responses, and others banging their heads against the walls wondering why people do not understand.
    Anyway, in reply to an earlier post by Adam “….Now unless you are already a multimillionaire there is no way you could start your own insurance company, or computer manufacturer, or what have you…..”
    Here’s a link about an electrician who at 25 took a risk and is now worth AUS$610 million. I’ve got this feeling that he just got shot down in flames.
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-fortune-and-fury-of-a-young-tycoon-20101009-16d3o.html.

  39. Some informative graphs to explain the protosts:

    http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/10/henry-blodget-explains-real-reasons-behind-occupations.php

    (the last graph seems most important)

    • The last graph is an example of a socialist loon looking for excuses to pimp his insanity to others.

      A commenter to Blodgett’s original article rebutted this load of bilge you are pimping better than me:

      Nick on Oct 11, 2:28 PM said:
      @TheD:
      Facts are fun to get fired up about but you’ll find that often the people most fired up have put little to no critical thought as to WHY the facts are what they are. I will address some of these now.

      RECORD CEO PAY
      The baby boom was the greatest generation americans have ever seen. They led the biggest surge in entrepreneurialism in out history and have for years sat at the helms of the companies they started. But now they are getting old, they have made their money and they want to retire. So what do they do? They hire a CEO to run their business while they go golf (they earned it before you go off crucifying them). They want the best and the brightest and the surge in demand made it very competitive in rounding up the talent to successfully manage the business you built with you blood sweat and tears. CEO’s aren’t banking because they are stealing, they are banking because entrepreneurs are fighting over them.

      THE BAILOUT
      The bailout while unsavory and hard to stomach was not to meant to keep banks lending, it was to keep them afloat so there was not a run on deposits. We had trillions in deposits and only a fraction actually kept in reserves. Had there been a bank run it would have made the great depression look like a day at the spa. The banks buying securitized CDO’s where the ones most responsible for the financial crisis (besides the deadbeat borrowers who figured that if their house was worth less than what they owed they got a free pass not to pay). Did they got a bailout? NO! Lehman and Merrill are gone. Failed. Poof. Vanished. The institutions that DID get bailed out (namely AIG which is not a bank) were bailed out to stop armaggedon . This leads me to my last point

      TAX EQUALITY
      People scream about the taxpayer money bailing out banks and totally ignore that the people who paid the most in taxes toward that bailout were the bankers themselves. Thats right, the 1% pays the most taxes. How can the people who contributed the least to the bailout gripe about it the most?

      The most telling slid Henry put up is slide #26. Pleas notice that the only demographic paying a higher % of the countries taxes than they represent of the countries wealth are the top 1%. Everyone else has more wealth than they pay. The rich don’t pay their fair share? Spare me. They pay the biggest and most disproportionately large share of anyone.

  40. I recently subscribed to your blog. I was set onto your site after reading M.H.I. It does not help that i feel a slight connection to the werewolf friend of Pitts… but still anger has it’s uses.. just not what most would ever conseider. Right now i’m just wondering if you actually get the time to answer all of these. If you could i have some questions on how to get my book published and would like some input. currently still writing it and will let you know title later if you so choose to read it when i finally get it published. I understand this has nothing to do with the post but hopefully i can catch someones attention that can assist me in my endevor. probably have a ton of mistakes but i’m only trying to contact someone right nowl.

    • Michael, I’m afraid that I can’t read the things that people send to me, but I just get too many offers. I will try to offer help or advice to aspiring writers however I can, but I just lack the time to read.

      • MIchael, as a fellow aspirant writer (really? we writer, ergo we are writers. better to call us aspirant professional writers) I highly encourage you to check out Kris Rusch’s (kriswrites.com) and Dean Wesley Smith’s (deanwesleysmith.com) respective blogs. There’s a veritable wealth of information on writing and publishing at those two sites.

        Regarding Larry’s rant (wicked fun reading, by the way, Larry) I’ve been spending far too much time lately thinking about the protests and their implications and possible consequences. I served my time to defend their rights to stand up for what they believe in, but that doesn’t make their movement any less stupid. Breaking the law and endangering themselves and passersby in an effort to “change the system” isn’t going to get all of us who don’t self-identify as part of their 99% to do more than agree that something’s wrong with the way our country works right now.

      • Bottomfeeders galore eh?
        What a pretty mouth you have.

      • Fritz: I couldn’t find “Bottomfeeders” or “galore” anywhere else on this page except for in your comment.

        As for the pretty mouth comment, I suggest going to craigslist if you need to explore your sexuality.

      • From Michael-”and will let you know title later if you so choose to read it when i finally get it published.”

        Don’t think he was asking for you to read it, just that he had questions on how to get published.

        @Michael- Also look into writer’s groups online such as Critters and Absolute Write.

        Lots of good feedback from folks, pros and aspiring writers. Lots of good advice, and might have insight into the various ways to get published. Also, make sure you look at Writer Beware, over at the SFWA website. Pay special attention to their list of known scammers.

        Good luck!

        Chris

        P.S. LC- great rant

  41. [...] Yet again Larry Correia has written a great article. It’s a very fair article comparing the tea party to the OWS crowd.  Now go read it. [...]

  42. Well said… as always Larry!

  43. in flint, mi. we had one of these Friday. my friend went his sign said this “save corporate america from this hippy tyranny!”

    he was peaceful about it, just stood there with his sign texting. folks got mighty angry about it. here’s a pic of it, if ya like to see it.

    http://photos.mlive.com/flint-journal/2011/10/occupy_flint_protest_in_downto_3.html

  44. There’s apparently an “Occupy Phoenix,” starting up, and our own Sheriff Joe Arpio (the man the lefties LOVE to demonize as Nazi, Rascist, etc., etc.) chimed in on the issue: “I see one of my regular protestors Orlando Arenas is organizing the Occupy Phoenix event. They better behave and not break any laws.”

    Yessir, there’ll be no filth here from the flea baggers, else they’ll be living in Tent City faster than an OWS floozie can turn a trick.

    • I’ve gotta say this… Not many people i know support Joe Arpio. I don’t particularly care much on this subject but then again i don’t particularly care for government interference. all i can say is let me do my job an leave me alone so i can live my life.

  45. You know the Fleabaggers are on the side of right and justice when BOTH the CPUSA and the American Nazi Party endorse them! What could possibly go wrong with such a fusion?

  46. Yes, Time Magazine would be a clue. Anybody who thinks Time is unbiased and doesn’t have a narrative is an imbecile.

    As for the smell test, you give me a national poll from a place that is basically a cheerleader for the DNC,

    Interesting. So you believe that the Time Magazine / ABT survey is a lie designed to make the OWS look good because the DNC – what? I’m sorry – where did the DNC come into this story?

    Your original post, of course, had no citations at all to support your stereotyping of OWS. But you knew it was right because…?

    Support for the Tea Party was clearly slipping back in June 2010

    http://www.newser.com/story/91815/tea-party-support-slips.html

    Or are you going to state that the Washington Post and ABC are clearly lying there too?

    And in Aug 2011, support was decreasing still further as it became clear what the Tea Party was like in Congress:

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/poll-shows-declining-support-for-tea-party-members-in-congress-53764/

    But, of course, it’s always possible that the Pew Research Center is part of this conspiracy against the Tea Party.

    Just one little point – you seem to be basing your “smell test” on how well they did in the elections. Do you think the opinion of the average American – who, as Time Magazine points out, seems to be on the side of OWS – might have changed as the Tea Party congressmen showed who they really were?

    And could you help us out here by indicating what other organisations are conspiring against the Tea Party?

    - Time Magazine
    - ABT / SRBI
    - Washington Post
    - ABC
    - Pew Research Centre
    - New Yorker

    Who else is part of the conspircay, Larry, and what evidence do you have, apart from teh fact that, you know, you disagree with their reporting.

    • But let me try and find something you may find credible.

      I note that you keep stating that you are a “New York Times bestselling author”. Presumably, this means that you think the New York Times has some credibility?

      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/17/opinion/crashing-the-tea-party.html

      “But in fact the Tea Party is increasingly swimming against the tide of public opinion: among most Americans, even before the furor over the debt limit, its brand was becoming toxic. To embrace the Tea Party carries great political risk for Republicans, but perhaps not for the reason you might think.

      Polls show that disapproval of the Tea Party is climbing. In April 2010, a New York Times/CBS News survey found that 18 percent of Americans had an unfavorable opinion of it, 21 percent had a favorable opinion and 46 percent had not heard enough. Now, 14 months later, Tea Party supporters have slipped to 20 percent, while their opponents have more than doubled, to 40 percent. “

      It seems you’re in a bind here – either you’re going to have to acknowledge the reports of papers like the New York Times, or you’re going to have to drop your sobriquet since the NYT is not credible. Perhaps you could relabel yourself as a “Tea Party Review bestselling author” or a “National Review Online bestselling author” instead?

      • Naw, I put the NYT thing on there because it is still considered prestigious in my industry for some reason. Their methodology is secret, as is their list of stores that report. However, if you are in the business, when you want actual real raw data about how books are actually selling you use Nielsen Bookscan, which collects data from 75% of the book sellers in the nation. (and I have spent the last 12 weeks on there, and have actually placed much higher on it overall). Sort of like Academy Award winning best picture isn’t the same thing as box office returns, but when you win the Oscar, you still put that on your resume and all your DVD boxes.

        So, just like the news, the NYT is prestigious and old school for some reason, but if you want straight up hard numbers, you go somewhere else. :D

        Nice false analogy by the way.

        But you weren’t looking for a serious answer. I don’t trust the NYT/Time/Newsweek/CNN/ABC/NBC because they have repeatedly demonstrated to me that they have a narrative that they are pushing. I’ve seen it repeatedly on subjects that I am an expert on, enough that it makes me doubt every other story they report where I’m not an expert. I also don’t trust Fox, but I trust them less. Most conservatives are smart enough to realize that all of the news outlets are selling something. Only liberals seem caught up in the myth that there is, or ever was, such a thing as an unbiased media.

        So, considering the nonstop propaganda machine of the last two years, yeah, I’d say that last post where opposition to the Tea Party has increased sounds right. I’ll give you that. Now, as for the accuracy of if that matters or if the figures you bandy about are even close, the real test will be in November 2012. And then the Blood Letting Part II will commence and you can come back and post after a slew of democrats lose where you link to some other poll about how it was all about racism. :)

      • So, considering the nonstop propaganda machine of the last two years, yeah, I’d say that last post where opposition to the Tea Party has increased sounds right. I’ll give you that. Now, as for the accuracy of if that matters or if the figures you bandy about are even close, the real test will be in November 2012. And then the Blood Letting Part II will commence and you can come back and post after a slew of democrats lose where you link to some other poll about how it was all about racism.

        How perfectly vague of you. As happened in the last election, right-wingers will come back and paint any gain made by the Republican party as a Tea Party win. Regardless of the actual results:

        http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/11/03/5403120-just-32-of-tea-party-candidates-win

        Do feel free to make actual concrete predictions which would judge the Tea party influence closer to the time, Larry. You know – names and races. Or don’t – which is all I expect of you.

      • Actually, the gains made by the Tea Party are offset by the dirty tricks done by the Democrats, using the entity previously known as A.C.O.R.N. *and* George Soros’s *self-proclaimed* “operation Secretary of State” where they worked really hard to get Democrats in the Secretary of State’s office to block *any* checks of voter registration against lists of people who are inelligible to vote: death lists, changes of address, non-citizens, illegal aliens, convicts who haven’t had their voting rights returned… things like that. Not to mention “voters” who were “registered” and never existed in the first place.

        Case in point: Looking over the voter results, a friend and I found that her grandfather, a life-long Republican, had changed his party affiliation to Democrat in 2008 and voted in the Presidential election. Very impressive, since he’d been *dead* for five years. And if you think that’s “an aberation” then after you buy that bridge, I have some lovely waterfront property in Florida to sell you.

    • I’ve a question. What is a blog? Cause correct me if i’m wrong but is it not a place where people from all over the country can bash on something all of them agree on without interference from particular nay sayers? just wondering….

  47. You know what is really funny? Well, funny in a graveyard fashion, of course. Points 1, 3 and 9, all regarding financing, are already being brought about by government counterfeiting – er – I mean, Treasury and Fed policy. I mean, if you borrowed good money and get to pay it back in rolls of TP, then your $20.00 per hour may become very affordable to business. That $20.00 simply won’t buy you a sandwich anymore. If you’re paying off mortgages using deeply devalued wheelbarrows full of cash, that’s essentially debt forgiveness too.

    Problem is, as soon as people figure out that the political leadership intends to try to inflate their way out of this mess, the show is over. Nobody will lend anymore, interest rates explode, housing becomes unaffordable (along with everything else) and we’re smack in the middle of the Greatest Depression.

  48. I’ve seen it repeatedly on subjects that I am an expert on, enough that it makes me doubt every other story they report where I’m not an expert.

    Yes indeedy. We were all in awe of the accuracy and precision of your portrayal of the OWS participants, their actual opinions, and their actions.

    Truly an illuminating demonstration of your expertise.

    • Troll. Adds nothing to the discussion, yet makes disparaging remarks that, IN ITS MIND (and in nobody else’s) appear to be the height of wit and intelligence.

      Troll. Go back to the overpass and wait for the OWS goats to cross.

      • Troll. Adds nothing to the discussion,

        This would be apart from the eight links guven above backing up my comments with facts?

  49. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I was going to do a post on this whole thing myself, but gosh darn it, you beat me to it. And said pretty much what I wanted to…but far better than I would have. With less swearing.

  50. Nothing wrong with a healthy debate. Both sides, the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall street group are needed in a society like ours. We need to hold true to the tenets of our constitution to allow all voices to be heard, no matter how crazy both sides rants tend to be. Funny how this is so very similar to the start of the last century. Many of the issues being brought up were brought up then. Which made it possible to create the Income Tax Amendment. (Oh I can hear Mr.Correia booing) I just hope it doesn’t become to much like the previous century; I’d hate to give up my beer and become a scofflaw.

    My one worry is that one side’s viewpoint will win out. Gads! I would not want to live in a country where either sides philosophies reign supreme. Either way government ceases to function and the whole idea of what the United States is and can be dissolves. We need to keep in mind the Framers’ ideal of the country they were creating. At its very core the United States is and should remain a republic, which all are heard. In fact James Madison, for those unaware the author of the Constitution, wrote in the Federalist Papers No.10,

    “There are again two methods of removing the causes of faction: the one by destroying the liberty which is essential to its existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests.

    It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy, that it is worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction, what air is to fire, an ailment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be a less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency.

    The second expedient is as impracticable, as the first would be unwise. As long as the reason of man continues fallible, and he is at liberty to exercise it, different opinions will be formed. As long as the connection subsists between his reason and his self-love, his opinions and his passions will have a reciprocal influence on each other; and the former will be objects to which the latter will attach themselves. The diversity in the faculties of men from which the rights of property originate, is not less an insuperable obstacle to a uniformity of interests. The protection of these faculties is the first object of Government. From the protection of different and unequal faculties of acquiring property, the possession of different degrees and kinds of property immediately results: and from the influence of these on the sentiments and views of the respective proprietors, ensues a division of the society into different interests and parties. . .”

    Madison argued that the Republican remedy embodied in the Constitution allowed the various factions sufficient room to express their views and to attempt to influence the government. Instead of the majority putting down minorities, the different interests would negotiate their differences, thus arriving at a solution in which the majority would rule but with due care and regard given to minorities. The very number of factions would preclude any one from exercising tyrannical control over the rest. Each side brings with it the specter of debate and creates what is truly great about the United States. My only concern is that we seem to allow our passions to rule us to greatly and use language and rhetoric that precludes us from having a true discourse. Seems we are much more banal in our debates, rather than construing a more intellectual approach.

    Now for my perspective. As for the Mr. Correia’s depiction of Mr. Obama’s administration when hasn’t a Presidents run been marked by scandal? As they say power corrupts. The previous administration certainly is not one to hold up to the light as an example. That too was marked by numerous scandals (in fact I believe Harding and the Ohio Gang were in their graves was cringing).

    In fact it as you look at the history of the Presidency a picture emerges of one which is not all that flattering of Republicans. Teapot Dome, Prohibition, The Depression, Korea, the start of Vietnam, the Pentagon Papers, Watergate,the oil crisis, HUGE National Debt, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. Interesting how Republicans are always bringing the question of the National Debt to the table yet each of the last 3 Republican Presidencies have pushed the National Debt to where it is now. Hmmm. Reagan Bush and Bush all created huge debt through their spending. Just look at the history of the National Debt. Other than WWII it was a Republican’s budget that caused the Debt.

    And of course the Dems had their issues as well, yet they all seemed to be related to their inability to keep away from sex. And of course the stupidity of escalating our presence in Vietnam. And the deregulation of the banking (Clinton) that led to the Great Recession. Of course it was a Republican that initiated a bailout. Which seems to me to be the opposite of what Republicans want.

    In conclusion I believe there is need to have all sides having a voice. Debate stirs change and we do need change in this government. Too much excess by both dominant parties has created an inequity within our society. It is not however the duty of the rich to fix our ills but rather the government to free itself from graft and brokering of power. The system really does need an overall. We have to create a system which equitable for all and does fall into the problems of the past. A person may not want to be governed but people do. We have to be able to better manage our tired, poor, huddled masses, the homeless, tempest-tossed. Create a system that allows for those capable to find a purpose and contribute. We need to reign in the over-spending on all aspects of government. Too much is spent on programs and military that are not over-seen and we greatly overpay. We have to create a better way to make sure the money we spend is spent well. Throwing money at problem does not work. Figuring out the best way to spend does. Have a great day!

    • A coherent response that is well thought out and nicely articulated. My compliments to you, sir!
      I agree with your assessment of the need for divergent opinions.
      I agree that BOTH political parties have let us down.
      I disagree, however, that the Dems issues all stem from an inability to stay away from sex. I think their issues mostly stem from a good hearted, albeit naive assumption that it’s the government’s job to provide for everyone and make sure we’re all equal instead of doing what they were actually created to do. I believe the problem is a government grabbing way more power than should EVER have been trusted to them- (which I realize took a huge leap forward under a republican president, btw- I’m not saying it all started with Obama…) The current administration is just more blatant about it then any that came before- it’s like they’re not even TRYING to hide what they’re up to. I think you’ll find that a lot of folks here agree with me- it’s not a republican vs democrat issue, or a right vs left issue. Its a politicians vs everyone else issue. The biggest problem is that they have us so busy arguing with each other how to fix it that nobody is ACTUALLY fixing it. I believe that if we return to the principles laid out in the Constitution we can still save this country. We need LESS government intrusion- not more. While I don’t agree with a lot of the methods used by the OWS, I’m still glad to see people taking an interest. Now if we could just folks to do their own research and stop taking the media’s word for everything we might get somewhere….

  51. Larry, I hate to say it, but you’re guilty here of doing the exact same thing some on the left have done with the Tea Party. As a couple others have pointed out, this is not an official list of demands. For instance, here’s another (that actually comes from the OWS website):

    http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

    Tearing down straw men might be fun, but treating this guy as representative of the OWS movement as a whole is about as fair as finding the nuttiest guy at a Tea Party rally and using him to say that the movement is comprised of violent racists. The most common demands I’ve heard from OWS people are reversal of the Citizens United decision and higher capital gains taxes. Whether or not you agree with those, it’s quite a bit different than calling for a $20 minimum wage and a trillion dollars each in nonspecific infrastructure and ecological measures.

    • Well, they sound much more intelligent, but I think thats only because the shrooms have worn off lol.

      #2 is a demand to punish “criminals” who got millions rom manipulating the system. The ones who actually broke laws were prosecuted I believe. The true problem was that most everything they did was LEGAL. Having a broad consensus that what they did was wrong and having it actually be against the law are two different things. The correct action is to fix the laws (which I believe is what #1 is supposed to accomplish)

      #3 Is an attempt to limit campaign donations by corporations, which is all well and good, but it does nothing about other lobbyist groups and PACs. Personally i think candidates should each be given an equal and fixed amount of funds to work with, just to weed out the morons who can’t run a budget.

      #4 is a blatant attempt to punish rich people for daring to be better off than everyone else. Since we have a graduated income tax, the wealthier you are, the higher your tax rate. Fair is everyone getting treated the same. How can you claim that someone with a tax rate twice that of yours isn’t doing their fair share. And before you ask, no I’m not some fancy-pants best selling author with a mansion in the mountains, I’m a poor broke student trying to pay my way through college. However I aspire to be successful someday, and I’d rather not have the government take half my possessions and my firstborn child and tell me I’m not paying my “fair share.” I’d go on about the supposed tax loopholes but Larry, being the accountant is much better on that than I am.

      #8 The law considers corporations as persons in that they “cannot be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.” And they want that repealed…because thats the only thing that keeps the government from seizing all their assets and nationalizing the entire economy. need I point out that anything the government can legally do to a giant corporation, It can also do to a small business,

      The other demands in that list seem reasonable, though I don’t know enough to be sure for some of them.

      • My understanding of corporations, at least when I formed one out of my partnership, was that it allowed a distance between the shareholders and the company. The simple example my CPA used was along these lines: under a partnership, if I was driving around town and rear ended someone, they could sue for the company’s assets, my personal assets, and my partner’s. (to include house, money, etc.) We could lose everything we had.

        Incorporating separated the shareholder’s property from the business’s, allowing that rear ended plaintiff to only sue for what the company owned, not what I myself owned.

        So here’s the way I see it, FWIW. Let’s think of what happens to a company, say an auto manufacturer…oh let’s use Toyota. The brakes fail in the new Prius, and someone sues. Now every stockholder from the CEO to the assembly line worker with stock, to some guy that just bought ten shares daytrading can be sued. People wouldn’t invest, companies wouldn’t grow, things wouldn’t get made.

      • Interesting, so basically a corporation is a company that becomes recognized as a separate legal entity (or person) from its shareholders for the protection of its shareholders? Am i understanding that correctly?
        Now it makes even less sense to repeal it. Thanks.

      • The issue they are addressing here is very specific. It deals with a 2010 Supreme court case that overturned a 1918 case and allows Corporations direct unlimited funding of a campaign.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

        They don’t want the Limited Liability aspect or any other part of a corporations protection removed

        I think this is the court case

        http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-205.pdf

        And as peavybob mentions, it does not effect PAC’s

  52. Peavybob- There is also a tax angle to it as well, the way the income from the shares is taxed for the different types.

    I’m not quite sure what changes tax wise from a Sole proprietor, partnership, Limited Liability Company, S-Corp etc. but I know there is a difference in the way the .gov sees them all.

    If only there was an accountant around here somewhere that could explain it… :)

  53. [...] View.. Letter from an air-conditioned home in Southern California «  Noemi.r.. Flea Party vs. Tea Party « Monster Hunter Nation POSZU – Some Demands « Like It Matters #Occupy: Is it worth it? « The Writerz Block [...]

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