Nick is a regular poster in my comments. He’s a decent guy who means well, a college student who (like many college students) thinks he gets “the big picture” that most of us are too dumb to, and is always ready to point out the hypocrisy of me or my readers.
He responded to my post about how we’re screwed by Health Control. Sadly, I think Nick’s comments are a good indicator of how a good portion of the American people have been completely snowed.
Well, this time he missed the boat entirely. So Nick, it’s nothing personal, but now I have to destroy you.
Nick is in italics.
When I left the house this morning I thought it was just another day, but I’d forgotten that the healthcare bill had passed. I called a guy who posted a classified ad about a shotgun; turns out he was an agent of the Obama Thought Police (established, of course, by a little-known line item in the healthcare bill) and had orders to haul me away to the reeducation camp. Luckily, I produced my ACLU membership and my copy of the Communist Manifesto, and assured him that not only do I hate Jesus and love Lenin, but I follow pregnant women around telling them to abort their babies. He let me off with a warning.
I’m just gonna let that paragraph sit there, so all of you can read it and grasp the idea that Nick thinks he’s both clever and funny. What he’s done there is called a Straw Man Argument. From Wikipedia: “To “attack a straw man” is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position. “
Now when I do this in my blog, it is okay, because I bring the funny, and that’s why you guys pay me the Big Bucks.
Scott: What part of the Constitution, exactly, does this bill “shred”? Thank goodness you’re smarter than 30 Attorney Generals! Even the Nebraska Attorney General who’s planning to file suit hasn’t said on what grounds the law should be declared unconstitutional. Let me help you. Utah’s Attorney General, who I’ve worked with and who is a very intelligent man is suing on the grounds that the commerce clause can’t be used to force people to purchase something they don’t want, and then fine or imprison them if they don’t comply.
Congress has the power to tax and spend (“The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States”) didn’t see health care and general welfare ain’t it and to regulate interstate commerce, and the necessary and proper clause gives them pretty broad powers to decide exactly what that entails.
Pretty broad as currently defined meaning anything on Earth or in space, that has or might have or could possibly exist in this plane of reality, ever.
By that reasoning, basically the government can do whatever they feel like and justify it as interstate commerce. If that is the case, why then do we even have a Constitution, if that one line about regulating interstate commerce justifies anything?
I really don’t understand the hysteria here. Perhaps you aren’t as smart as you think you are then?
Nick, people a lot smarter than you are truly freaked out about this bill. I know you think you know everything, but we’ve been fighting this thing for over a year. It is the size of a phone book. Democrats legislators have been bribed and arm twisted into doing something unprecedented, even though it is political suicide. This bill is so very important to our president that they’ll do anything to get it through, even if it means losing their majorities.
Have you stopped to consider why?
Conservatives didn’t like Clinton’s health care bill either, but generally speaking their arguments were based around spending and bureaucratic inefficiencies, This one makes the Clinton plan look like a well oiled machine not around this widely spread notion that it was somehow the first step in creating “reeducation camps” Straw Man and a Socialist Thought Police Straw Man.
Why is it so different this time around? Nick, you don’t know shit about history, do you? How old were you when we fought Clinton care? Five?
We defeated Clinton care, the same way America shot down government controlled health care proposals from LBJ, FDR, Wilson, and TR. Maybe, just maybe, all the smart people that fought then understood something that you’re too dense to grasp now. Government controlled healthcare is a disastrous evil. And yes, I use the word evil. That is not hyperbole. It is capital E –ville.
Conservatives rightly called out liberals for making ridiculous comparisons between Bush and Hitler, but they seem to have no qualms about making comparisons between Stalin (a man who killed more people than Hitler) and Obama, based solely on the grounds that he’s supported a bill mandating universal insurance. ONLY? Like that’s the only socialist thing he’s done? So taking over industry, business, banking, finance, and insurance doesn’t count? Government control of over half of our business, and brutal regulation of the other half doesn’t count? Surrounding himself with actual card carrying communists and Maoists doesn’t count? Any of this ringing a bell?
I’ve put this challenge out there a bunch of times. Nobody has ever taken it yet. So here it goes again. If Obama is not a Marxist, can you name five things that he has supported or pushed that Karl Marx himself would not have approved of?
So, Bush and the Hitler comparisons fail because they were based on trying to make Abu Grab the same as the Holocaust, which just showed a fundamental inability of some people to grasp historical magnitudes. Plus, Hitler was a socialist. (remember that National Socialist thing?) Socialist. Similar to Joseph Stalin’s communism or Barack Obama’s progressivism.
I don’t think I’ve ever said Obama was the same as Stalin that I can recall. Stalin would make Obama look like a complete pansy on his best day. But hey, as far as total control over people’s lives goes, even Stalin had to start somewhere!
No. We must only think Obama’s a socialist because of health control. It is ONLY because of health control. That’s got to be the only possible reason.
Seems kind of hypocritical It would only be hypocritical if I gave Bush a pass and only dissed Obama, but my dislike of Bush’s big government policies was clear. Big Government = BAD. That’s not hypocritical. That’s common sense. And what we’ve got here is the biggest government take over of the private sector in American history.
Wait, so I’m “promoting socialist bullshit” Yes. By denying that this plan is fundamental Marxism is to lend it credibility. because I don’t care for hyperbole but you sure love you some Straw Men! and I don’t think that the term “unconstitutional” If the shoe fits… should go the way of “judicial activism,” where it basically means “anything I don’t agree with”? How about anything John Adams disagrees with then? Or Jefferson? Or Franklin? I’m pretty certain where they would have fell, and I think they probably know more about the Constitution than you do, since they wrote it.
The Constitution should be respected, and an accusation that lawmakers have violated that document is not something to throw around lightly anytime you dislike a piece of legislation. Throw around lightly? Nick, dude, the government is going to force every single American to purchase something, even if it against their will. It is the largest expansion of federal power in US history.
This is real life. This bill effects every single American at the level of their most basic fundamental needs. This bill effects every single business, every entrepreneur, every company, every man, woman, and child, and you have the audacity to lecture a bunch of people who’ve experienced far more than you have in your sheltered little life about how we’re overreacting…
Grow the hell up, you petulant child.
There are legitimate arguments against the healthcare bill; consitutionality is not one of them
As pointed out above, bullshit.