Yesterday I posted a link to my latest fisking of the Guardian to Facebook. Surprisingly enough, Damien Walter showed up in the comments.
Now I suspected Damien wasn’t particularly bright, you can tell by his clumsy column writing, but I was only joking about him being the Guardian’s village idiot. Little did I realize he was Show up on Facebook and Brag about Committing Libel dumb.
Because that thread has three hundred comments on it, I trimmed out everything before Damien showed up. The only other things I cut where the memes people posted because they don’t paste over and I’m too busy to go copy and insert the individual files. The parts where Damien incriminated himself are in bold. But really, check out the whole thing to watch Damien’s bizarre attempt at deflection through deconstructionist straw grasping.
Larry Correia Just keep calling him on his lies.
Damien Walter Libertycon sounds great. When is it?
Larry Correia Hey, Damien, how about you cite where Toni said that or you retract it and issue a public apology?
Zachary Hill Force it. Make him prove it or apologize.
Damien Walter How about you give a definition of science fiction, as you’re certain it’s a genre.
Larry Correia Okay, noun, plural genres [zhahn-ruh z; French zhahn-ruh] (Show IPA)
a class or category of artistic endeavor having a particular form, content, technique, or the like:
the genre of epic poetry; the genre of symphonic music.
paintings in which scenes of everyday life form the subject matter.
a realistic style of painting using such subject matter.
genus; kind; sort; style.
Fine Arts. of or pertaining to genre.
of or pertaining to a distinctive literary type.
According to the world’s largest book retailers and publishing houses, science fiction is a genre.
So, back to you, who started it, cite where Toni said that.
Joseph Capdepon II So I guess Mystery isn’t a genre of fiction? Romance? Horror?
You call yourself a journalist and you can’t even get the most basic and simplest of things correct in your article?
Damien Walter I said give a definition of science fiction, not of genre.
Ross K Wolfe *grabs popcorn*
Zachary Hill Well, you don’t seem to know the definition of genre, so he had to start there.
Mark Davis Jr. This is gunna be good.
Larry Correia First thing on Google: Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with imaginative content such as futuristic settings, futuristic science and technology, space travel, time travel, faster than light travel, parallel universes, and extraterrestrial life. It often explores the potential consequences of scientific and other innovations, and has been called a “literature of ideas”. Authors commonly use science fiction as a framework to explore politics, identity, desire, morality, social structure, and other literary themes.
Now, back to the part where you fabricated a total lie about Toni Weisskopf, cite where she said that. This isn’t some little obfuscation issue over terminology, cite where she said that or you are a liar.
Thomas Mandell Richard; Halfwit Damien probably would take one look at the guest list for LibertyCon and beg off or come up with a really assinine excuse for not goin’.
Larry Correia From Britain:
British Dictionary definitions for science fiction Expand
a literary genre that makes imaginative use of scientific knowledge or conjecture
(as modifier) a science fiction writer
Damien Walter What’s the scientific knowledge in Star Wars?
Larry Correia Shit, it is harder to find a definition of science fiction that doesn’t use the word genre in it.
But that is a side show. Let’s get back to the part where you lied about Toni. Provide a cite where she said that. There is nothing open to interpretation. She either said that or she didn’t.
Damien Walter Where is the scientific knowledge in Star Wars? You mean you write science fiction, but can’t define it without google? Lame.
Larry Correia Look at you playing semantic games. I don’t do the frenemies thing Damien. Cite her or you are a fucking liar. I even posted the link to her diatribe. Cite it or you are admitting to everyone that you are liar.
You did the same thing to me when you put words in quotes attributed to me which I never said.
Wow, you cannot answer a direct question if your life depended on it, can you, Damien?
Larry has directly asked you, “Now, back to the part where you fabricated a total lie about Toni Weisskopf, cite where she said that.”
He did that both in his post and here.
Yet, you dodge and weave with semantics over definitions of genres.
I think that right there is an “answer” in and of itself.
Greg Ellis Star Wars is more closely related to fantasy than to true science fiction. Star Wars has virtually no science foundation upon which to base the appellation “science fiction” since it contains virtually _no_ actual “science” in its plot, storyline, or backgrounding. It’s almost pure fantasy – and fantasy is its own genre.
Damien Walter Come on Larry. You’re a scifi writer. Where is the scientific knowledge in Star Wars?
Joseph Capdepon II Before we get into ideas like faster than light travel, robots, shield technology, weapons that fire coherent light, the mecha, the fighters, etc, I want to see where Toni claims to say what you claim she said Damien, or like Larry said, you are just a fucking liar.
Damien Walter Because it’s an easy question. Any fan has discussed this a thousand times.
Mark Davis Jr. I get it, he’s talking about Star Wars not having science in it because Star Wars is fiction, just like his claims about Toni Weisskopf!
Joseph Capdepon II You write about space opera and you don’t even know what the hell space opera is do you Damien?
Star Wars is space opera. I would classify Peter F. Hamilton’s Night’s Dawn series as Space Opera as well. No real hard science in it either.
Larry Correia I didn’t write a response to your opinion on Star Wars. I wrote a response to the fact you’re a liar. I’ve given you multiple dictionary definitions. Now you owe me an answer. Provide the cite.
As for Star Wars sci-fi elements (because you conveneintly leave out the part of the definition which says CONJECTURE) robots, AI, FTL, laser weapons, space ships, alien life.
Now, that’s 3 I’ve answered. Give me the one I asked for. Provide the cite where Toni said that or demonstrate that you lied.
Damien Walter Hurrah Greg Ellis yes Star Wars is indeed a lot like fantasy! These genres aren’t so clear. So, what do you call the genre that contains both SF and Fantasy?
Larry Correia Cite where Toni said that.
Patrick Freivald So Damien, your idea of journalism is to lie about what people said, and then to literally ignore it when called on your error? Typically, when presented with facts counter to something previously stated, a journalist will issue a retraction, often with an apology.
Joseph Capdepon II Now, if you want hard sci-fi, I would recommend Stephen Baxter to you.
Hard sci-fi, space opera, military sci-fi, etc are SUB-GENRES of the GENRE of SCIENCE FICTION.
Damien Walter You haven’t answered my question at all Larry. You want to assert that science fiction is a genre. And yet you can’t even separate it from Fantasy.
Greg Ellis There’s a word for that, Damien, and a genre. But you know that already. It’s called scifi-fantasy. It’s also referred to as cross-genre fiction. However, Larry’s right. Answer his question about Toni, if you would please.
Joseph Capdepon II I think Damien has comprehension problems as Larry answered the question, but Damien doesn’t want to accept it.
Ross K Wolfe The non sequiturs continue. It’s almost as if he knows he’s a liar and a libeler.
Jason Hobbs Yesss, Finally, you two are duking it out on here!
Thomas Mandell Damien Walter: QUIT DODGING THE BLOODY QUESTION!!! Provide cites or accept the title of BLOODY FECKING LIAR!!
Larry Correia They are both genre fiction, but this is pretty obvious pathetic obfuscation. Provide a cite where Toni said that.
You are a liar and a coward.
Genre fiction categories primarily exist so that book sellers know where to shelve things. According to the largest retailers in the world it goes fiction-scifi/fantasy- then they break down into sub genres. Whoop. None of that has anything to do with the part where you fabricated a lie about a real person, and now you will not provide a cite.
Quit trying to change the subject. You are a liar. Provide the cite or shut the fuck up.
Zachary Hill So, you refuse to offer proof and therefore admit that your a liar?
Steve Poling So, Larry Correia cites examples of serial lying, impugns the fellow’s character and says, “Correia is really mad.” The guy gets knocked around like a pinata and his defense is the passion with which his whipping was administered.
Greg Ellis Baxter and Benford are _gods_ of hard sf.
Larry Correia Of course I’m mad. I don’t like liars.
Patrick Freivald To be fair, lazy shithead wannabe journalists not fit to run a college paper will sometimes report things from secondary sources without checking the primary source, and so without actively lying they end up saying things that are outright false. When this is made apparent, they issue retractions, often with apologies.
Rob Fabian Damien won’t accept anything Larry says, just like he’ll never actually answer Larry’s question. He actually thinks he’s “winning.”
Chris Cook Come on Daimen, just admit your mouth / keyboard wrote a check you can’t cash… You figured nobody would notice, right? Dork.
Joseph Capdepon II But hey, Damien will make fun of Baen’s covers, even though Baen has sold millions upon millions of books, he will lie about what Toni and Larry said but it is all okay.
The Brits are paying him to “write” a novel. I’m sure it will check off all the boxes on the SJW checklist.
Steve Weinberg This sort of reminds me of when in FIREFLY Mal is having the duel, and the rancher remarks “my god, he thinks he’s doing well!” Except, of course Mal is awesome and Damien is… well…
Sam Cook Am I really a rarer beast than a unicorn for being a left-leaning fan of Larry Correia?
Damien Walter I read Toni’s essay when it was published, and dozens of responses to it, and re-read in writing that piece. My opinion of it was exactly as stated in my column.
Rob Fabian Translation: I CAN”T cite anything, but I have the feels…
Zachary Hill Star Wars: The potential for advanced robotics, aka Droids. Ion engines which is a real concept. Using advance machines to collect water for a better life in arid climates, Anti-gravity and its uses. I can keep going but this is already far more of an answer than the liar deserves.
Joseph Capdepon II Translation: Toni’s essay says the exact opposite of what I want it to say, so I will say it says what I want it to say so that it fits the narrative I want.
Tommy Craddock Jr You never said a word about it being your opinion Damien, you said this happened:
“issue a diatribe against any and all sci-fi that did not pander to this conservative agenda.”
Where did that happen?
Tom Walls I read Toni’s essay. Damien lied. No weasel way around it.
Joseph Capdepon II What about Eric Flint, Damien? Is he a part of the conservative agenda?
Chris Cook You would think he’s a progressive or something like that…
Zachary Hill He can’t answer with proof because he made it up.
Larry Correia Guys, screen cap this.
Patrick Freivald We’re not asking for your opinion of the piece. We’re asking for evidence that Ms. Weisskopf said what you say she said.
John Van Stry Damien, opinions are not facts. You need to apologize to Toni for what you wrote, and need to put in a retraction. If you want people to take you seriously, you must admit when you’re wrong. Otherwise you’re just another hack and a liar.
Damien Walter No, toni’s essay as a whole is a diatribe – IE one sided and biased. Every single sentence singles out those she politically disagrees with as the enemy, and her message is that for “peace” to come back to the genre they need get bak in line with the genres conservative values.
Zachary Hill As a hack historian, I know that you have to always cite your sources. Source for Damien’s accusation: Damien’s butt, Facebook, 2014.
Tom Walls Oh. Sorry. Weasels aren’t a “genre”. Or something
Dan Paddock Damien: please define right wing and present the right wing elements of Eric Flint’s personal politics.
Michael McInnis Larry cowards and liars never admit they are wrong, they simply change the subject, and try to marginalize their detractors.
Zachary Hill Damien, you’re saying what you think she said, but you have yet to cite any quotes.
Colin Collins “You haven’t answered my question at all Larry. You want to assert that science fiction is a genre. And yet you can’t even separate it from Fantasy.”
It’s alright, I can’t separate your “journalism” from fantasy either.
Rob Fabian “Every single sentence”? Really? So, if, just by chance, I COULD cite a single sentence that does not, then you’d admit to lying and retract? Didn’t think so.
Damien Walter Now let’s get back to genre Larry. You’re asserting that science fiction is a genre, but you can’t define it.
Larry Correia So Damien just said – ” I read Toni’s essay when it was published, and dozens of responses to it, and re-read in writing that piece. My opinion of it was exactly as stated in my column.”
So you just admitted that she didn’t say that. You fabricated it. You put words in her mouth. There was nothing about pandering to right wingers.
So in your newspaper column you knowingly put fake words into the mouth of another person, thereby harming their business.
Robert Gants Damien, we know Toni, we know what she wrote, and we know that you are an ignorant little person with an inflated view of your own importance in the universe!
Zachary Hill He defined it. Several times. Because you refuse to accept those definitions for reasons, doesn’t mean he hasn’t defined it. Not let’s get back to you being a dirt bag liar.
Tom Walls Damien,,,, Argumentum ad anus extractus,, or Argumentum ad feces fabricatum ?
Mike Phillips Damien, answer the question. I actually read her speech. It sounded more like a praising of diverse ideological. You know, because the battles that wage between
Damien Walter Still no definition of genre. If you want to hold science fiction as a genre Larry, you need to have a definition. How about literature, is that a genre?
Colin Collins Damien, define “thriller” as a genre. Is something still a “thriller” if it has a mystery?
Damien Walter The novel? Poetry? Theatre? Are those genres?
Sean Hraba As for your “militarism after 9/11″ remark Damien Walter, FUCK YOU, as a native New Yorker I find that remark offensive.
Zachary Hill He’s defined it twice already. Now give a quote and cite your evidence.
Rob Fabian Wow, Damien here is a perfect example of what Ronald Reagan was talking about so many years ago:
Ross K Wolfe Hey, Damien, define: “Liar” and “Libeler”, and explain how you are neither.
Tom Walls Somebody define “asshat”….
Larry Correia At no point did you specify in your column that it was your opinion. You fabricated something and put it out as if it was fact. You did not clarify in any way that was your opinion of Toni’s words, you portrayed it, to your audience, as if that was something which she had actually said, knowing full well that it was a lie.
I can’t believe you were dumb enough to admit that in public. Screen capped.
Now when Toni gets back from DragonCon we’ll have to see if she wants to sue you for libel or not. Be glad that it is her and not me, because she is far kinder.
Thomas Mandell Damien Walter quit with the semantics, admit you are a liar & libelist hack.
Keith Glass Oh, PLEASE, Damien, DO come to Libertycon. It will be an utter hoot. For us. . . .
Joseph Capdepon II Ah, because Damien doesn’t have a leg to stand on, he is going to quibble over what is a genre and what is not.
Tom Walls Game, Set . Match,..
Damien Walter There’s a long history of debate about defining science fiction. One of the long established arguments in that debate is that genre definitions don’t fit SF. So it’s hardly a new opinion.
Nicole Baston Larry , you may have to define libel for Damien he doesn’t seem to understand words.
Zachary Hill There’s a long history of people making up lies about other people to make themselves look good. Its hardly knew to people with low self esteem.
Truman Jensen I’m pretty sure libel laws are easier to win in the uk. This should be fun.
Colin Collins So, Larry says that the entire thrust of your article is based on lies and you get hung up over whether genre means genre or literary form?
Robert Sestito Wow dude is completely bat shit crazy. This is insane if Larry had a interview with Obama and completely added a information to that interview he would be liable. It’s kinda cut and dry.
Sam Cook I’m surprised that Damien Walter actually had the courage to come over to Larry Correia‘s page.
Damien Walter All newspaper columns are opinion Larry. That’s the distinction between a columnist and a reporter. I’m entirely happy with the piece, and of course you’re welcome to proceed however you wish.
Larry Correia Hey, Damien, while I’ve got you here, any chance you can explain how your quotes you misattributed to me were based upon your feelings as opposed to things I actually said?
Keith Glass Love the bit where he tweeted that Larry would sacrifice his first-born child to the gods to destroy Damien.
I think the reality is the sacrifice of an ingrown nose-hair down the porcelain altar would be sufficient. . . .
Nora MacFie Still reading but: “And for the record, I don’t know or care what Damien’s orientation is, though I’m willing to bet when the act is over there is a lot of weeping involved. ” Burn. The burn is hotter than the sun. Back to reading.
Sam Cook We know that you’re happy with it. It’s not true, though.
Dan Paddock That’s because your a libelous loon with no moral compass.
Larry Correia Since you are hung up on definitions,
[lahy-buh l] Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures.
the act or crime of publishing it.
a formal written declaration or statement, as one containing the allegations of a plaintiff or the grounds of a charge.
anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents.
verb (used with object), libeled, libeling or (especially British) libelled, libelling.
to publish a libel against.
to misrepresent damagingly.
to institute suit against by a libel, as in an admiralty court.
But we’ll have to see how that opinion of yours about how everything in a newspaper is just opinion shakes out.
Steve Weinberg I can’t wait to see how his “column” (which is all “opinion” because facts are columns”) spins this thrashing he’s receiving. I wonder if it’ll be recognizable?
Steve Lewis Damien’s genre question is the attempt of a no-nothing to sound intelligent.
Could you make the point that Star Wars is, in many ways, a fantasy story that incorporates a science fiction image system, but that doesn’t negate the science fiction label. The Lensman series that Damien cites is classic science fiction and incorporates many of the same elements that Star Wars does.
Also, Damien, yes, the novel is a genre.
An invented prose narrative of considerable length and a certain complexity that…See More
Damien Walter Yes, exactly, the novel is a genre, that’s why I asked. Is literature a genre?
James Schardt Damien, I hope you aren’t shooting for a government grant for your dancing ability. Your ability to tap dance around a question you are afraid of asking is seriously lacking.
Dillis Freeman Larry, I know some excellent Queen’s Counsel and solicitors if you would like a referral. They would have fun with this.
Ivan Wolfe As I tell my writing students, Damien, opinion does not mean you can lie or ignore facts. Trying to hide under the “opinion” label to cover irresponsible claims and sloppy writing would get someone a failing grade in my class.
Colin Collins Damien, even if you do believe Toni’s article to mean what you say, it only proves that you have a complete lack of reading comprehension or are a hack.
Thomas Mandell Sam Cook; The only reason Herr Walter showed up was to get ideas and fodder for his next piece of regurgitate.
Joseph Capdepon II James Schardt, well, he did get a grant from the British government to “write” a novel…
Ray Carter Larry Correia hire a nice (at least to you, to Damien, not so much) attorney in the Land Where Great Britain Used to Be – this begins to sound like a Popehat worthy legal adventure, complete with cheddar popcorn…
Larry Correia Dillis, that would be wonderful. I leave it entirely up to Toni’s mercy.
Joseph Capdepon II Damien never explained either how Eric Flint is a part of that conservative whatever he claims that Baen and Toni favor.
Rob Fabian Not courage, just self-promotion. By picking a fight with the eeeevil orchestrator of the Sad Puppies campaign, he makes himself the darling of the SJW brigade. Next year, he walks off with a preemptive Hugo for the novel he still hasn’t actually written…
Mark Wasko · Tom, it all makes sense now. Someone at his company told Damien he was an asshat, but he thought they said asset so he’s been doubling down on the derp ever since.
Sam Cook Do you really think he’ll finish it by then?
Rob Fabian Of course not. He’ll win it for “standing up to Larry Correia” while everyone babbles about the genius of the work he’s never actually finished.
Damien Walter Ok Larry, we’ve established you’re suing me now let’s get back to your assertion that science fiction is a genre. Define the genre, what is SF and what isn’t?
Joshua DeBoe “the novel is a genre” – do go on, please.
Rob Fabian It’s not like THAT has never happened before with a prestigious award…
Alan Kuhn Damn…….that boy certainly has sand….in his Vag that is…
Damien Walter Secondary question, is literature a genre?
Patrick Freivald I love how Damien seems to believe that being a “columnist” instead of a “reporter” means that he can make shit up without consequence and it’s all okay.
Apparently that “ethics in journalism” course didn’t take.
Sam Cook The novel is a genre of literature the way that painting is a genre of visual art.
Dan Paddock And the distortion continues…
Dan O Mac I’ve heard stuff like this before. It’s usually from a child that finds him/herself in a loop of lying and misdirection while trying to figure out an escape from their parents right before they learn how “the truth can set you free.”
Rob Fabian You know, I’m not entirely sure Damien passes the Turing test…
James Schardt Larry, unfortunately Toni 1) is far to nice to do something like that 2) probably doesn’t care enough about Damien to do anything if she weren’t.
Damien Walter Also, original question, Libertycon. Sounds great, when is it?
Chris Wilcoxson · 3 mutual friends
Damien, that you tweeted this proves you know absolutely nothing about Sci-fi.https://twitter.com/damiengwalter/status/506419035844526080
Damien Walter on Twitter: Emotionally complex sci-fi. Does such a thing exist?
@damiengwalter @InformationHead Le Guin often focuses on a nuanced depiction of women’s lived experience which not all readers may notice.
Dillis Freeman Larry, have Toni contact me at her convenience. Would she like the head of the News of the World investigation team? He’s expensive but loser pays in the English system.
Joseph Capdepon II Damien is in a loop! Someone reset him!
Larry Correia Dillis, kick it over. I’m going to try and talk her into it on principle.
Colin Collins Just because one group of critical theorists have redefined the popular term “genre” to mean essentially literary form does not mean that in popular usage we have to agree. That definition may be useful for those esoteric articles that will remain unread by almost all writers and readers of popular fiction, but it is useless for anyone who lives in the real world.
Graham Bradley For Damien: Google is hard, so I did this on your behalf. The definition of “genre”:
a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter.
SF has similarities in form, style, and subject matter. It’s fiction that deals with science as an overt element of the construct. You’ll find subgenres under the umbrellas of hard SF and soft SF (where lots of the fun stuff comes in), but your straw-man assertion that SF is somehow not a genre does not hold water.
Furthermore your assertion that all newspaper columns are opinion and therefore your libel of Toni does not count as actual libel would undermine the worth of anything you write for a newspaper anyway.
(Not that you hadn’t already done that yourself.)
James Schardt Damien, it’s June 26-28 in Chattanooga, Tennessee
Joseph Capdepon II Really, genre labels matter for places that sell books, something Damien will never have to worry about.
Nicole Baston Wait- is he crowd sourcing Larry and his fans for their grasp of Google because he can’t be bothered to look up his own definitions?
Keith Glass Larry Correia: how about a MHN Kickstarter to fund the legal action ?
Nora MacFie Excellent fisk, as usual, Larry.
Dan O Mac ^BOOM
Colin Collins Be aware Graham Bradley, that Damien has made it obvious that he doesn’t know much about science fiction forms, styles, and subject matter.
Richard D. Cartwright I think this is the time when the judge would be telling Damien to answer the question or risk contempt of court.
Graham Bradley Colin Collins, I’m starting to wonder whether he knows much about the meaning of words in general.
Keith Glass Richard D. Cartwright: he’s already gotten OUR contempt. . .
Dillis Freeman Larry, it’ll be a bit but I’ll get you contacts. I’ve actually thought of the perfect team. There have been 317 female QCs since the system was formalized. I know two and have been waiting to see them have some fun.
Mark Olivares ·Is it a genre? Is it not? For Damien, reality flows in and out of fashion like the solar winds.
Patrick Freivald The judge would be telling Damien to answer the question, and his lawyer would be telling him to shut the hell up! Fun to watch, though.
Damien Walter oh well. Larry’s opinions on genre have dried up. Good evening people, until next time.
Thomas Mandell Welll he’s been at it for four years
Graham Bradley Let me see if I understand this…Damien learned everything he knows about solar wind from, I dunno, probably fiction…science-fiction…which isn’t a genre because…reasons, I guess…damn I’d better write this down. Can the UK government give me a grant?
Richard D. Cartwright Nicole, I am ok with educating Damien. Of course I weep for how far the British educational system has apparently fallen.
Mark Olivares · 33 mutual friends
Damien’s going back to his fifteen followers and going to complain that we were mean to him, isn’t he?
Joseph Capdepon II And we see the Damien as he flees with his tail between his legs. Later, he will write a column where he misrepresents and lies about what happened.
Mark Olivares ·The solar winds blow, like Damien’s writing.
Mark Olivares ·I have Always been a proud member of the Libertarian-Conservative-Mean Poopyhead conspiracy to undermine Sci-Fi.
Steve Lewis Damien, you seem to have a problem understanding classification systems. Labeling science fiction a genre is a bit nebulous, but the same can be said of fantasy. Most fantasy contains magic or paranormal elements, but not all. Oftentimes, the only element needed to define something as fantasy is a secondary world.
Also, in any classification system, the higher you travel up the hierarchy the less defined things become. The broader the category, the less defined. The things you’re fixating on are first year English major minutia. You sound like a freshman on winter break trying to impress his family with all he’s learned.
Robb Kelley This is great.
Larry Correia My opinion on genre is who gives a fuck? I don’t care what genre any given book of mine is until it shows up in some on Amazon. Damien is picking at a mote in his eye as I brained him over the skull with a beam.
But getting back to the fun part, this is the US legal definition of libel:
“Libel occurs when a false and defamatory statement is published which tends to harm a person’s reputation or expose him or her to public hatred, contempt or ridicule. It is important to remember that defamation can be in many forms, including articles, headlines, advertising, letters to the editor, sports columns, drawings, opinions, outlines, and photographs.”
Hell, attempting to damage reputations seems to be Damien’s job description.
So yes,opinion still counts if it is false and defamatory. Damien admits it is false, and it is obviously defamatory. This is even cooler since he’s already demonstrated a pattern of lying and fabricating quotes for authors from this publishing house.
Joseph Capdepon II Genre labels only matter to those who have books for sale. Something that Damien will probably never have to worry about.
Nora MacFie Classic deflection on DW’s part throughout this thread. It’s a tactic of the left. He’s all hung up on the genre thing and spins even when he’s proven wrong there. Doesn’t want to talk about the actual topic which is that he lied about what TW said in her post. I’ve screen capped it to use as an example of the tactic. As I say, it’s classic.
Steve Binder Wow. Just wow! Can’t believe there are really people in the world like DW.
Michael Rizzo · 4 mutual friends
I commented a couple of times on the guardian piece and included the original of Toni’s “diatribe” something Damian should have done as a responsible literary figure who knows the definition of genre. It was interesting to have casual observers have a WTF moment in regards to his reading comprehension after reading it. So long and thanks for all the fisk!
Retiqlum RetiQlum Um let’s see:
The novel, like poetry, is a form of the art known as literature.
Genre is “a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter.”
Also, a columnist doesn’t write opinion pieces. A column, as opposed to an editorial, is supposed to be factual. Even then an editorial is supposed to use facts to base the opinion on. Creating an opinion based on supposition would be called a work of fiction.
Sean McCune Holy Crap! That was…’gnome getting punted by Franks’ type of awesome.
Graham Bradley Can we get some NSFW tags on this hardcore pwnography?
Brian Galloway Damian’s claim that SF isn’t a genre is the first time I’ve ever heard that assertion, and I’ve been reading SF for 30+ years. Is there really a school of thought that believes that? Or is he just making that up, too?
Eric James Stone Wikipedia says science fiction is a genre:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction
Science fiction – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with imaginative content such as f…See More
Thomas Mandell Brian Galloway; probably made up, or just argued among SJW’s
Eric James Stone Encyclopedia Britannica says science fiction is a genre: ” The term science fiction was popularized, if not invented, in the 1920s by one of the genre’s principal advocates, the American publisher Hugo Gernsback.”http://www.britannica.com/…/topic/528857/science-fiction
science fiction (literature and performance)
A form of fiction that deals principally with the impact of actual or imagined s…See More
Steven Smith Damien, language evolves. A few years ago, a meme was a transmissible unit of cultural information. Now it also means a picture with a clever caption. Your definition of genre is what I mean when I say medium.
Todd Wilkinson <set marker>……… and a full set of screen caps of the message thread up to this point. Message me if you want them Larry.
Sanford Begley I am going to run counter to those who hope Damien comes to Libertycon. While I would possibly enjoy watchjing him be made fun of I fear for the freedom of some attendees. Someone would wind up drowning him in a crapper and go to jail for it. He certainly isn’t worth it
Cameron McCurry I see that Damien is a star pupil of “Argument via attrition.” The problem is that around here, we don’t get tired.
Larry Correia So Damien says science fiction isn’t a genre. The Encyclopedia Britannica, the entire publishing industry, and all of the world’s book retailers say that it is. Okay, glad we got that cleared up.
But while Damien was straining at a gnat, he swallowed a camel. Even if Toni is too nice to sue, he just demonstrated to the world he is a liar, and had zero qualms about smearing someone’s character based upon his feelings rather than any objective facts.
Now some people in the media can do that sort of thing and still have jobs, only those people are talented in a way that makes up for it. Damien has no talents.
You know, I thought Damien was dumb. I mean really, he’s a terrible, clumsy, columnist, his points aren’t strongly made or persuasive, when they’re even rational enough to be considered a point that is, but I figured he was just run of the mill dumb. Not stupid enough to admit to criminal behavior on Facebook dumb. I was only joking about him being the Guardian’s Village Idiot. Little did I realize that I’d underestimated him.
James L Young ·Given that Baen does business in Great Britain, is there any reason Toni can’t sue under the UK’s much easier libel laws? I mean, has anyone thought about contacting a solicitor regarding this article? Not to throw a bucket of chum into an already ac…See More
Larry Correia Just sent to me by an English professor: “1. Darko Suvin. 1972. Science fiction is “a literary genre whose necessary and sufficient conditions are the presence and interaction of estrangement and cognition, and whose main formal device is an imaginative framework alternative to the author’s empirical environment.””
And Damien is still a liar.
Brett Bowen So let me see if I follow.
Damien wants a definition of Sci-Fi.
Larry provides one from google as well as a definition of genre.
Then Damien wants to know what’s the scientific knowledge in Star-Wars.
Some various readers discuss futuristic scientific innivations…
Damien then contends that Larry has presented no definitions of either “genre” or “sci-fi,” and begins all over again.
Larry, et. al. attempt to move on, Damien runs away.
Cool. I think I’m all caught up now.
So, Larry Correia, allow me to express my disbelief that people like Damien actually exist. Most of the libprogs I talk to are dense, and I had just chalked this up to hyperbole. Lo and behold, Damien pops up to shows us whay it’s like to occupy the shallow end of the intellect pool.
Lin Wicklund You know, Damien has 15 whole followers!
Mark Olivares · Surprising, isn’t it, Lin? Usually, train wrecks gather more morbid curiosity…
Larry Correia From a Marxist literary scholar: . SF is distinguished by the narrative dominance of a fictional novelty (novum, innovation) validated both by being continuous with a body of already existing cognitions and by being a “mental experiment” based on cognitive logic. From Metamorphoses In Science Fiction.
Heh. Even Marxists think that scifi is a genre.
Rod Linkous Damien, for a “college educated man” you’re a moron. Literature is the entire field of written works. It is then broken down into different genre. A novel is nothing more than a work of a certain (arbitrary) length. Frankenstein is literature, it’s also borderline horror/science fiction (GENRE). A Tale of Two Cities is literature; it is also IN THE GENRE of historical fiction. Get the idea you mouth breathing, panty wearing, pathetic excuse for a human being? As some great person once said, ignorance can be cured, stupidity is forever.
Again, I’m sorry I missed this. Seems like a great occasion for somebody (Damien) to get sued, but even if not I would think his editor and publishing team would like to know about his utter lack of journalistic ethics. Making Stuff Up is only slightly less egregious than Copying Others’ Work…(I felt the need to use expanded phrasing since Damien’s illustrious career evidently didn’t expose him to concepts more sophisticated than a six-year old’s homework).
I wonder how The Guardian would react if it got a flood of email and letters from people who just watched Damien admit to making up statements? This is a second offense that we know of already…seems like his bosses would want to know.
Brett Bowen basically correct, but don’t forget the part where Damien admitted to being a liar.
What you just saw was a bunch of deconstructionist nonsense and intellectual straw grasping over a quibble to avoid the actual topic of Damien Walter being a liar.
It goes on for a bunch more posts, mostly with people hoping that Toni sues the Guardian, but you get the idea. Toni probably won’t sue because she is nicer than I am, and Damien is a bug to her. Me personally, I must like stepping on bugs.
Damien left after that last post. I was told afterwards that he’d taken to Twitter, where he was telling his followers about how he’d won a debate with me. Yikes… I’ll just leave this here for people to make their own call about that.
The lesson to be taken from this exchange is this:
- As I asserted yesterday, Damien Walter is a liar.
- When the liar was dumb enough to place himself in a position to be called on his lies, he resorted to obfuscation and deconstructionist nonsense to divert the issue away from his lies.
- When a liar does that, don’t let them change the channel. Don’t play their semantic games. Hit them in the head with a brick. Backed into a corner, Damien fucked up and committed the ultimate pseudo-intellectual sin of telling the truth.
When his professional abilities and fundamental integrity were called into question, Damien tried to turn weasel by repeating inane diversionary questions instead. A decent human being would defend their honor. A worm tongue would try to play games. Spending much time on his stupid diversions during the exchange would have played into his hands. I prefer the brick to the face method.
But now that ship done sailed, let’s go through why Damien is extra stupid.
Science fiction is a genre. As can be seen by the above definitions pretty much everybody agrees that it is. Dictionaries, professors, publishers, book sellers, and authors consider science fiction a genre. While searching I found it harder to find a definition of science fiction anywhere that didn’t use the word genre. I started out by posting the definition of genre, because it answered his question.
I’ve got some English professors who are fans. Since they work in academia in left wing dominated universities I can’t imagine why they don’t want to come out of the closet as Larry Correia fans! They were PMing me definitions the whole time (yes, shockingly enough I actually don’t have a copy of Darko Suvin’s seminal treatise on literature on hand).They were laughing at Damien during this too because they were used to his form of pathetic word games, as that tactic was common in academia. Here are some quotes from the PMs to shed some light on Damien’s sad little brain.
What D is trying trying to do is too pull you into the swamp that the deconstructionists love. They try to get their opponents to concede to their claim that all language is inherently indefinite. Once they get that, they can disrupt any definition or absolute meaning. The effective riposte is the one based on common sense, not theory. In short, if there was no limit to the indefinitude human communication would not be possible. So the inability to come up with exacting definitions is only a limiting theory, not a destruction of definitions, sub definitions and nuances. That language is flexible does not mean that it lacks sufficient precision for us to be able to distinguish between closely related types of similar things. It’s a despicable academic parlor trick.
The sad additional truth: that too many critics become slavish devotees of some perspectives to the point where they retain less common sense than a dim-witted cow. Damien and a lot of acadwmics fit that bill.
So in the thread we established through over half a dozen widely accepted places that science fiction is in fact a genre. Then the bit about Star Wars and how it fits the definitions of using extrapolative tropes… I’ve got no idea where that comes from, but let’s see… Besides aliens, alien planets, space ships, space stations, energy weapons, artificial moons, faster than light travel, artificial intelligence, nanotechnology, cyborg limbs, robots, energy shields, stasis, walking battle mechs, holograms, escape pods, cloning, flying cars, jet packs, and Ewoks, not much.
And best of all, somebody found a tweet from 2013 where Damien himself talked about how science fiction is a genre. So he’s not only stupid, he’s forgetful. It turns out he truly is like the freshman who came home from college, trying to wow the grownups with all his exciting new knowledge, as if the fact he gleaned some bold new literary theory somehow excuses the fact that he’s a liar.
The important thing is that we have established, without question, that Damien Walter is a liar. He lied about Toni in his last column, and he has lied about me twice. He isn’t just a liar, he is an admitted liar, and an unapologetic one at that. He is someone who has proven he is willing to defame in order to further an agenda. Whenever Damien’s name pops up in any conversation, he needs to be branded with the word. He needs to wear it like a scarlet letter. Well, he’s already got an L on his forehead but I’m pretty sure that’s for Loser, but we need to make sure that other one sticks.
Damien Walter is a liar.
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